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Original Coupon Deal
Good deal for a AM5 motherboard, considering all the others are at least $300 AUD+
Asrock B650M PG Riptide DDR5 AMD AM5 RGB LED Matx Motherboard $239.20 ($233.22 with eBay Plus) Delivered @ Gg.tech365 eBay
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This is part of Black Friday / Cyber Monday deals for 2022
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"Future proofing" on B650E or X670, I am not sure it is going to be that great. The reasons are:
- To really take full benefit of the currently overkill PCIe 5.0, you prefer a motherboard that does PCIe Bifurcation. Problem is, those motherboards cost a lot of money and the setup to do PCIe 5.0 x8 + x8 (or x8, + x4x4) are expensive. Ones with no secondary PCIe x8 slot are still restricted.
- Does having just 1 m.2 PCIe gen 5 slot makes a lot of sense? Again, with PCIe Bifurcation and deep pocket, you can workaround the issue, but fundamentally, the chipset just does PCIe 4.0.
- The evolving state of USB 4.0 (not to mention it still costs a lot so a lot of boards don't have it).
Is spending a lot on first gen AM5 board a wise decision? That said, this particular AM5 does cost cut a lot. Only 1 m.2 slot and various other regression from its B550 equivalent is disappointing.
Thanks for the info netsurfer, i'm on the hunt for a reasonble amd board to build a system for my daughter. Im afraid im normally an intel fan boy, so i know little about the amd darkside ;) The ryzen 7 5700x cpu at $279 seems good value thou, if i can find a board worthy of it
Maybe a B550 board. Asrock B550M PG Riptide is $180 (was $155 from one store about 1-2 weeks ago though). The only things I am not sure about that board is:
- I have the X570S version of the board, while it packed quite a lot of nice features, the BIOS boot is really slow. I am not sure whether that's just Asrock X570 boards or not. I have an MSI B450 board and the post past BIOS is a lot faster. I am hoping B550 doesn't have this issue but I am not sure so I cannot recommend it in case it also has that slow boot.
- That board doesn't have BIOS flashback (probably not a Ryzen 7 5700x) but need to check.
The best way is honestly find a store that would let you test the board, memory, CPU in store first. Though, that's quite unlikely.
The question one has to ask is why do you care about (x8 + x8) bifurcation when the trend for multi-GPU support for consumer desktops is dwindling? Second, from my understanding, the motherboards running the E variant chipsets that support PCIe 5.0 and have 20 lanes available do support bifurcation (e.g. Asus, in that some lanes are allocated to the GPU slot and others to the M.2 slot). But you're right about few (if any?) currently supporting two separate PCIe 5.0 x8 slots, however, I don't think this is a common need among consumers. The most common (future) setup will likely be a PCIe 5.0 GPU + NVMe SSD, which the current E variant chipsets support.
There are 2 reasons for that:
- You can have up to 4 PCIe gen 5 x4 SSDs + 1 more from the other x4 slot (to CPU). Though most high end boards probably will just go up to 4 in total (maybe 3 gen 5 x4 SSDs).
- High end boards does x8 x8, so up to 3 PCIe gen 5 x4 SSDs.
- Future capture cards (i.e. 8K) might benefit from PCIe gen 5 x4.
Yes, multi-GPUs days are long gone, but PCIe bifurcation is still useful thanks to SSDs. Why do you think some B550 boards can support 3 PCIe gen 4 x4 SSDs? Those boards use PCIe bifurcation (so the GPU runs PCIe gen 4 x8 mode).
Cheaper boards could support x4 x4 x4 x4 mode and still offer another x4. I have a X570 $199 board that does that so I wouldn't be surprised there is one for 670. Heck, even my B450 board has PCIe bifurcation (didn't realise it before).
Paying double to futute proof for a standard that hasn't even been released is probably a bad idea. Only buy an x670 of you need the additonal features.
X670 only has 4 PCIe 5.0 lanes, you have to get the E variants (B650E/X670E) to get your 20 lanes. Yes its more expensive, time will tell whether it pays off. Its all speculation at this point whether you argue either way, I'm of the belief that if you intend to keep the board for 3-5 years, it will be worth it. To each their own.
When you think about it, the main difference is the PCIe gen 5 x16 slot (because the so called 20 lanes, 4 of them goes to m.2, just like X670). Right now PCIe gen 5 x16 is overkill and the chance of a GPU can take full advantage of that right now and gen 4 x16 is way too slow seems very unlikely.
So, let's then think about PCIe Bifurcation, so ideally we want to run gen 5 x8 for the GPU so we can take advantage the remaining gen 5 x8. Any time you go down that path, you are looking at a $1000 motherboard. Then, there is the memory side. Based on past experience, for each iteration of chipset, motherboard makers improve that aspect. i.e. B450/X470 -> X570 -> B550 / X570S. Same CPU, on my B450 board, the memory timing is inferior than on my X570S board.
The other potential issue is the chipsets are still only PCIe gen 4. The chance of later ones eventually does PCIe gen 5 is high.
And, you know the dodgiest part of B650 vs B650E? The actual chipset is the same.
So, the requirement to get to have "E" is the motherboard makers must wire the PCIe x16 slot to the CPU using PCIe gen 5 standard (cost more) instead of PCIe gen 4. We know a lot of B450, X470 boards' PCIe x16 slots can support PCIe gen 4, but AMD comes alone and block it with microcode. As far as I know, PCIe gen 5 does require different type of wiring.
@netsurfer: Yes they have to wire it to the CPU because the ASmedia Promontory (PROM21) chiplets used in the motherboards don't actually support PCIe 5.0, only the CPU does. AMD hasn't blocked PCIe Gen 4.0 in AM4 motherboards?
@olcrackerjack: AMD blocked pcie 4.0 on all b450s when it initially was planned to be released for those b450 boards that could have supported it.
@olcrackerjack: Was it? I'll go and update my three b450s right now if that's the case. Did you have any source to confirm that?
@netsurfer Your argument is predicated on the presupposition that PCIe 5.0 compatibility is pointless as mainstream GPUs do not support it, and will be "very unlikely" to support it in the future. My presupposition is that PCIe 5.0 will be relevant in the future. Buy whatever you think is going to do you the best service in the future. All I was trying to do was inform people that B650 and B650E are not equivalent if you care about PCIe 5.0.
@olcrackerjack: No, that's NOT what I was pointing out. It is not about "supporting" it. It is more about being able to benefit from it. We need GPU cards to support both x16 and x8 mode. Yes, a graphics card supporting PCIe gen 5 in x8 mode gets the same bandwidth as PCIe gen 4 x16.
It is about whether you just leave that PCIe x16 slot for pure gen 5 for a GPU (which most likely will waste at least half of that bandwidth) or you get a choice to re-purpose part of those supposedly "wonderful" PCIe gen 5 lanes.
For example, I can in theory have 6 PCIe gen 4 SSDs on my X570S board if I really want to. Obviously, I have to really sacrifice that PCIe x16 slot completely and force to run graphics card on a PCIe gen 4 x4 slot.
@olcrackerjack: Basically, it is great to have 20 PCIe gen 4 lanes. However, since we are "bargain" hunters, we are by nature, greedy. We want PCIe bifurcation at dirt cheap prices if possible.
I bought a $35 4 slot PCIe x16 card to play around (for my old B450 board). The card says it support PCIe gen 4, but I am cynical. Anyway, I just want to try that for fun. I am unhappy AMD locked B450 PCIe gen 4 support through microcode. So, I cannot have PCI gen 4. However, if I get to have 5 PCI gen 3 x4 SSDs all wired directly to CPU, with m.2 SSDs being dirt cheap at the moment. For non-gaming, it could be a pretty fun setup, especially if I pair it with an APU (which for AM4 is locked to PCIe gen 3 anyway).
Bear in mind 670 chipset is STILL PCIe gen 4. All the PCIe gen 5 comes from wiring to the CPU directly. So, it's really hard to get excited about 670 chipset.
@netsurfer: Man you are fast to type and have raised so many points across multiple comments that it's hard to respond to all of them. I see your point(s), thanks for making it/them. I hope some people found our discussion useful. I'm sure some will care about grabbing the PCIe 5.0 now, others not so much and likely just opt for the cheapest board they can find.
@olcrackerjack: In short:
670 chipset: still PCIe gen 4, all the magic of PCIe gen 5 is from the CPU.
PCIe bifurcation: yes, overkill for most people, but for advanced users, we just like to have choices on how we choose to use all that 20 lanes.@netsurfer: Doesn't help having PCIe Gen 5 capable CPU and then a motherboard that doesn't support it. That was my point initially.
@olcrackerjack: Problem is that's not true.
AMD is mandating motherboard maker must at least wire 4 lanes for a m.2 slot. The E vs non-E is just to let consumer know whether you get a PCIe gen 5 x16 slot. With GPUs not able to really benefit from PCIe gen 4 yet, I don't think using that x16 slot for a GPU that supports it now is such a big deal.
If the board does bifurcation, then at least I can numb my brain and have more excuses to buy more PCIe gen 5 SSDs later (yeah, it is just as stupid).
@netsurfer: Honestly, I'm still deciding whether I want to. Might go with a 3000 series card in the interim for the new build and look at picking something up late next year.
@olcrackerjack: Come on, mate. This whole PCIe gen 5 is mainly for SSDs. That's why the x4 is mandated.
Someone might even try to do a dodgy marketing spin that DirectStorage with PCIe gen 5 SSD is going to make a big difference. Or, you are 100% sure in 3 years time, we should all toss PCIe gen 4 x16 based PCs into the rubbish bin?
@netsurfer: The sarcasm is strong. I hope I didn't come off as being anti-PCIe Gen 4.0, that wasn't the intent. I'm all for utilising hardware as long as possible.
@olcrackerjack: It's nothing personal. It is more about all these marketing hype and tricks to the consumers.
- Most of us are not ready for PCIe gen 5 yet. The chipset is still PCIe gen 4.
- The AM5 socket provisioned more PCIe gen 5 including lanes to chipset (future proofing), but for B660/X670 (E), PCIe gen 4.
- In terms of taking advantages of PCIe gen 5 now, it will most likely be PCIe gen 5 x4 NVMe m.2 SSDs.
- Motherboard makers know this and that's why PCIe bifurcation is still there (despite SLI makes zero sense now).
It is easier to trick our brains when we see the benchmark results for a PCIe gen 5 x4 SSD (which has to change to 16 channels mode in order to utilise PCIe gen 5). AMD "kind of" do us a favour by including 4 extra PCIe gen 5 x4 lanes to accomodate at least 1 PCI gen 5 m.2. However, in reality, that's not case. We can already see that. By forcing this board to do include that m.2 slot, cost cut happened elsewhere so we are left with just 1 m.2 slot on this board. USB 4 is also wishful thinking at this class of the board. The first non-Intel Thunderbolt 4 / USB 4 chipset isn't cheap. The needed alt-mode wiring isn't free either.
PCIe gen 5 at the moment is a double edge sword. Through hole soldering is not good enough so the cost goes up. We are in hybrid PCIe gen 5 phase still (even if you get a top end AM5 motherboard now). It hurts AM5 in a way too. By dangling AM5 platform is "future proof", it has to have PCIe gen 5, but it is not "free". Customers still have to pay. Even if a board maker purposely went with PCIe gen 4 x2 m.2 SSD slot, there is still extra cost to support signalling for DDR5.
@netsurfer: Nicely summarised, I agree. Despite the obvious shortcomings you've listed, I still think there is some value in grabbing E variant boards when you can do so without a substantial premium over the non-E counterpart. For example, one can get a B650 ITX board for $390, or a B650E ITX board for $520, an extra $130 is worth it in this instance in my opinon. Conversely, if you're paying double the price, say $300 for an ATX B650 vs. $600 for B650E ATX, then you can argue the value isn't there. Every decision comes with tradeoffs, especially when you are trying to find the best value.
@olcrackerjack: High end B650E boards: support for 3 x PCIe gen 5 x4 m.2 SSDs, USB 4/TB4 AIC support.
Each person knows what's best for him/her. For people who are not tech savvy, just need to remember that E and non-E use the same chipset, it is just the board features (mainly to the CPU PCIe lanes) that's different. Also, there are people who are happy with having a PCIe 5.0 x16 slot.
It doesn't hurt to know PCIe Bifurcation. There are also 2 different variants (a relatively cheap one and a more flexible / high end solution). My B450 board was $150 (and that was considered expensive at the time) and my X570S costed $199. Both have the cheap form of PCIe Bifurcation. If B650E throws in PCIe gen 4 x4 slot via the chipset, and if you don't have a super duper graphics card, opening the door for multiple PCIe gen 5 SSDs is attractive. Even if you opted to save money and get 4 x PCIe gen 4 x4 AIC, the fact that you can use up to 6 NVMe m.2 SSDs with at least PCIe gen 4 is something that's worth noting. Not saying it is a must. But, if we are talking about "future proofing", maxing out PCIe lanes with multiple devices is easier than 1 super duper GPU.
Or, if there is a dirt cheap B650 board which supports PCIe Bifurcation. Having the ability to run 4 or 5 PCIe gen 4 SSDs + 1 PCIe gen 5 SSD on a dirt cheap board can be fun too. Very unlikely though since board makers most certainly want you to pay for that feature.
Future proofing has and will continue to be bad pc advice.
Pcie 5.0 is literally worthless and it'll still be useless in 5 years. We can't even saturate pcie 3.0 nvme drives yet for applications. Current gen high end gpus have 2-3% difference at pcie 3.0 vs 4.0. Pcie 5.0 will not be used for anything until am6 arrives (at which point it'll be pcie 7.0 and equally pointless).
Even if you put aside future proofing with the x16 slot, the E version of this board is still a much better investment thanks to the significantly better VRM, more m.2 slots, and the second PCIe x16 slot is connected directly to the CPU.
Recommend avoiding B650 vs B650E chipsets if you care about having PCIe 5.0 for "future proofing". Check out the summary provided here: https://techedged.com/b650-vs-b650e-vs-x670-vs-x670e/. B650E seems like the value sweet-spot at the moment if you care about PCIe 5.0.
Nonetheless, B650 remains a good budget option for those looking to get on the AM5 platform for as cheap as possible