In Current Climate, if You Are Getting a New Car, Which Car Will You Get?

[Deactivated] on 11/11/2022 - 16:04
Last edited 11/11/2022 - 18:35

With petrol and diesel steadily increase in price, I thought I would like to renew this poll as I plan to get a new car next year.

When this forum topic is written, fuels are averagely priced (quoted from fuelcheck nsw) as followed:

  • Premium Diesel @ 236.6/L
  • 98 @ 222.0/L
  • 94 @ 199.6/L
  • 91 @ 198.9/L

Anyway, the point is they are getting expensive and with solar panel technology getting more advanced (I've been hearing from fellow neighbors, family & friends, colleagues that their quarterly electricity bills are on credit), it's probably time to invest in plugged-in electric car and get that fuel juice charged up.

The only concern with EV/BEV, may not be able to get to those longer destinations when there is no servo with charging facility.

I look forward to understand all your perspectives on this.

Poll Options expired

  • 251
    Fuel-based (Petrol/Diesel)
  • 67
    HEV (Hybrid)
  • 19
    PHEV (Plug-in Hybrid)
  • 307
    EV/BEV (Full Electric)
Automotive Car

Comments

  • AndyC1 on 11/11/2022 - 16:07
    +5

    In the current climate I think we should all buy at least one of the following before they include batteries:
    https://www.bigw.com.au/brands/disney-cars

  • MS Paint on 11/11/2022 - 16:13
    +11
    • Premium Diesel @ 236.6/L
    • 98 @ 222.0/L
    • 94 @ 199.6/L

    Why not include 91? The most popular fuel

    • Hackney on 11/11/2022 - 16:38

      We’re I am ‘98 is @ 205.9

      • [Deactivated] on 11/11/2022 - 16:51

        Still expensive

        • Hackney on 11/11/2022 - 18:01
          -5

          Cheap as ‘chips’! Who cares? I don’t!

        • TightBungholio on 13/11/2022 - 12:32

          Not if u run a 150cc motorbike like me

        • boostpak on 14/11/2022 - 08:39

          you should go to europe and see how much fuel costs

      • Ocker on 11/11/2022 - 17:24
        +1

        Go to Costco in Moorabbin (Vic) U98 is "only" $1.967

        • Dslrfirst on 12/11/2022 - 09:33

          U missed the point.

      • spackbace on 11/11/2022 - 19:32
        +2

        Yeah metro average here for October was 202.9

        181.4 for 91 RON

      • RedFromBlue on 12/11/2022 - 07:39

        Huh?

      • cunningdrew on 14/11/2022 - 16:29

        You fine folks don't chopper?

      • seefu on 15/11/2022 - 03:18

        $2.50/L for Unleaded 91 where I am

  • bobbified on 11/11/2022 - 16:15
    +18

    I would still buy a conventional ICE car…. They might be in the process of rolling out more EV infrastructure, but I wouldn't say that it's at a point where I'm comfortable to make the switch just yet.

    If i was going to get a second car THEN I might pick an EV.

  • kerfuffle on 11/11/2022 - 16:19
    +9

    Hybrid now I can get a hybrid Corolla with a sunroof

    • AustriaBargain on 11/11/2022 - 18:11
      +1

      Hybrids are definitely on the way out with countries planning to flat ban any ICE.

      • kerfuffle on 11/11/2022 - 18:45
        +5

        Just as well mine’s already on order then 🙃

      • Dogsrule on 11/11/2022 - 20:27
        +5

        In 13 years, yes. Quite safe to buy one now.

        • Mikeool on 22/03/2023 - 09:19

          Well, you should more think about the time you want to sell the hybrid…

          • Dogsrule on 22/03/2023 - 15:28

            @Mikeool: The difference in purchase price between the cheapest hybrid medium SUV (RAV4) and the cheapest electric medium SUV (Model Y) is $27K. You'll never make back the difference in resale value, especially the longer you keep the car. I've done the sums wrt to running costs and bought a RAV4 hybrid as the family chariot and a Model 3 as a commuter car for myself, it just makes sense right now.

  • Murkymerv on 11/11/2022 - 16:22
    -7

    Don't buy diesel , or electric

    • JIMB0 on 11/11/2022 - 16:29
      +23

      Are you going to get, a Flintstones car?

      • Kangal on 14/11/2022 - 21:30

        Yaba Daba Doo!

  • Hackney on 11/11/2022 - 16:39
    +3

    Hybrid all the way, they are the ‘happy medium’ @ present.

    • Mokr on 11/11/2022 - 16:43
      +1

      Phev

      • [Deactivated] on 11/11/2022 - 16:47
        +1

        Yet no one voted for this

        • wackedupwacko on 12/11/2022 - 23:48
          +3

          Thats because PHEV is the worst of the options.

        • Juice-Wa on 14/11/2022 - 11:04

          PHEV sounds like a happy medium but it is also a maintenance nightmare. Too many things that could go wrong that's on yourself to maintain and fix once it's out of warranty.

          • Nalar on 14/11/2022 - 13:56
            +2

            @Juice-Wa: Legit question: What things?

            • Juice-Wa on 14/11/2022 - 15:20
              +1

              @Nalar: You're running a combustion engine and an electric motor. While the electric motor and it's required power systems are less likely to fail than the combustion engine, it still introduces additional risk of failure. It may also be difficult to find a mechanic with the expertise of electric drive systems to service and fix your car. Not a terrible idea when the car is brand new and there are no issues, but I would never buy one out of warranty.

          • vgmaster21 on 14/11/2022 - 19:57

            @Juice-Wa: That's what gets me. One of the main reasons I prefer full electric is I can remove the headache of all the traditional petrol car maintenance; No oils, timing belts, gearboxes (in most cases), fluids etc to worry about. PHEV just seems like you're getting the worst of both worlds.

            • Binchicken22 on 15/11/2022 - 18:33
              +3

              @vgmaster21: I wouldn't say your getting the worst of both worlds.

              I would think of it more as, you are buying a petrol car and you accept the maintenance requirements, but you have the advantage of an EV for the first 50kms of range (no fuel use).

              Most people rarely travel more than 50kms in a day so it would cut most people's fuel bills by 90% I would think.

      • Lovemybargains on 12/11/2022 - 22:59

        Phew

  • boomramada on 11/11/2022 - 16:57
    +1

    Based on the stats, its fuel based.

    https://www.whichcar.com.au/news/vfacts-october-2022-new-car…

    • Mokr on 12/11/2022 - 08:53
      +1

      Ford Ranger and Toyota Hilux.

      Best selling.

      Australia is a tradie nation

      • Kamsi on 12/11/2022 - 21:12

        I'm not surprise consider there is so many pot holes on our roads.

        • Tleyx on 19/11/2022 - 20:25

          Yep those heavy utes sure cause a lot

      • Charity on 13/11/2022 - 19:02
        +1

        Both for the ladies.

        Landcruiser or F150 is where it is at.

      • pformag on 15/11/2022 - 15:33
        +1

        Can also write it off tax as a business.

  • brendanm on 11/11/2022 - 17:22
    +1

    I will buy myself another diesel, will buy the wife an ev at some point, assuming I can get one that operates like a normal car, don't want everything operated off a touchscreen.

    • mskeggs on 11/11/2022 - 20:02
      +7

      We’re in the minority these days. It still surprises me its so illegal to to talk on the phone, but no consideration given to the complexity of a touchscreen with nested menus and changing interface after an update.

      Not to mention another thing to break.
      Cars in Australia run for about 19 years - considering plenty of phones don’t make it 4 years, I wonder how these will age.
      And don’t get me started on a grumpy rant about lane assist and auto braking and whatever else self-driving ‘safety’ features are in everything.

  • jv on 11/11/2022 - 17:27
    -4

    it's probably time to invest in plugged-in electric car

    Have you seen the forecast price increases for electricity in the next few years?

    • Taro Milk Tea on 11/11/2022 - 17:56
      +4

      Enlighten us god

    • Dogsrule on 11/11/2022 - 20:33
      +15

      Electricity prices could double and the energy cost for my EV would still be only one quarter that of a petrol car with equivalent performance, or half that of a Toyota hybrid.

        • pegaxs on 11/11/2022 - 21:21
          +21

          4 times as much? Where did you get that figure from? My BYD cost the same as a similar spec’d Hyundai or Toyota.

          And engines don’t deteriorate in ICE vehicles? And week by week?

          Not sure if trolling or if you actually believe that shit…

          • jv on 11/11/2022 - 21:25
            -7

            @pegaxs:

            And engines don’t deteriorate in ICE vehicles?

            The batteries certainly do in electric vehicles… Which affects your range.
            It will be less and less every year.

            Size of a petrol tank doesn't change much over time.

            • seannami on 23/03/2023 - 19:50

              @jv: The average battery deterioration is 10% over 200000 miles (around 321500kms), depending how often you charge, how much you charge etc. Current car is 13 years old and hasn't gotten 100,000kms

              Other sources say 2.8% per annum, again depending how you charge etc. Means that in 10 years the standard range of the ZSEV I ordered will be down to 230. That's still easily several commutes without charging, and I can charge at home. That's assuming that no individual battery cells are replaced as part of general maintenance.

              And remember this is inly able to be based on data from old battery tech, so these rates are likely innaccurate for today's batteries.

              ETA: turns out the 2.8% loss may actually be only single cell lithium rather than large multi cell, so likely less loss.

          • peter123445678 on 14/11/2022 - 20:56

            @pegaxs: Still overpriced, Atto 3. Same car in China only about 25k, u can even get some 400km small ev for 15k, here we need a 30k Corolla ev with 400km range, that the point I’ll consider an ev, spend 30k more buy an ev to save 2k per year fuel is stupid af financially

        • Dogsrule on 11/11/2022 - 21:47
          +2

          ICE vehicles deteriorate week by week as well, average fleet age is 10 years and average scrappage age is 15 years.

          My car is the mid-spec of its range and costs half the price of an ICE sports sedan with equivalent performance which is the $167k BMW M3 Competition. The base variant of my car costs $13k more than a top of the line Camry hybrid with similar equipment levels.

          They are not the cheapest cars around but they are certainly not 4x the price of an equivalent competitor, and can even be cheaper than the competition higher up the food chain.

          Also there are other EV's which are cheaper again like the BYD Atto 3.

          • jv on 11/11/2022 - 21:52
            +5

            @Dogsrule:

            ICE vehicles deteriorate week by week as well

            Not the range they can travel on a full tank…

            • Dogsrule on 11/11/2022 - 21:57
              +2

              @jv: That may be true, but it's almost irrelevant these days. It ain't 2010 and we ain't driving Nissan Leaf(s) anymore. There are 8yo Tesla's getting around with most of their battery capacity remaining, and that's with 8yo battery tech.

              The LFP batteries being used in most EV's now will almost certainly last the life of the vehicle with most of their capacity intact. The older tech NMC battery in mine has only lost an indicated 5km of range in 40,000km.

              Anyway, you do you, you're clearly taking the cautious route with your vehicle choices and that's okay.

              • jv on 11/11/2022 - 21:59
                +1

                @Dogsrule:

                That may be true, but it's almost irrelevant these days.

                Not really, if you need go for a drive that's not around the corner from your house.

                • Dogsrule on 11/11/2022 - 22:38
                  +13

                  @jv: I live in regional NSW and do a daily 170km commute on the Newcastle-Sydney Motorway - I have done a bit over 40,000km since I got it last November. Wife also owns a RAV4 hybrid.

                  We have traveled all up and down the East Coast, up to Brisbane and down to Melbourne from Newcastle no problems. Newcastle-Brisbane took 8h35 with 45mins of charging inclusive. Newcastle-Melbourne took 11h40 with just over an hour of charging inclusive. Both charging sessions were entirely covered by our rest breaks anyway meaning they added no extra time to our trip.

                  I can see you have no actual experience with EV's, which is fine, but your opinions about most of the available models are no longer true.

                  • jv on 11/11/2022 - 22:53
                    -7

                    @Dogsrule:

                    I can see you have no actual experience with EV's,

                    Don't need to…
                    Li-ion batteries lose capacity with every charge…

                    • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 10:10
                      +10

                      @jv:

                      Don't need to…
                      Li-ion batteries lose capacity with every charge…

                      This ain't your single cell passively cooled basic BMS phone battery we're talking about, just as your air cooled carburettor lawnmower engine isn't comparable to the vastly more advanced ICE in your car.

                      You think you know all you need to know about lithium batteries based on your experience with NCA/NCM batteries in cheap consumer electronics dying after 3 years/500 cycles, but modern LFP batteries paired with liquid cooling and an advanced BMS can achieve thousands of cycles equivalent to many 100's of 1000's of kilometres of driving.

                        • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 16:34
                          +7

                          @jv: Irrelevant when it lasts the life of the car. You're arguing over a solved problem, a problem solved by people much smarter than both of us.

                          • jv on 12/11/2022 - 16:40
                            -6

                            @Dogsrule:

                            Irrelevant when it lasts the life of the car.

                            Not irrelevant when your driving range decreases over time.

                          • jv on 12/11/2022 - 16:41
                            -6

                            @Dogsrule:

                            You're arguing over a solved problem

                            That's just the rubbish fed to you by their marketing department that you blindly believe.

                            • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 16:49
                              +2

                              @jv: It is objective fact proven by both evidence published by the chemists that create these batteries and empirical data collected by the owners and manufacturers of the vehicles these batteries are used in.

                              Facts don't care about your feelings.

                              • jv on 12/11/2022 - 16:56
                                -2

                                @Dogsrule:

                                objective fact proven by both evidence published by the chemists

                                So is the reduction in capacity of Li-ion batteries.

                                • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 16:58
                                  +1

                                  @jv: Just like the reduction in power and fuel economy of ICE's over time.

                                  Why do you still use them?

                        • SBOB on 12/11/2022 - 18:39

                          @jv:

                          Chemistry 101

                          From someone whose clearly on a chemical engineer….

                          • jv on 12/11/2022 - 18:54
                            -3

                            @SBOB:

                            From someone whose clearly on a chemical engineer….

                            Close… My wife actually is an aeronautical engineer..

                      • pegaxs on 12/11/2022 - 14:08
                        +4

                        @Dogsrule: Don't bother feeding the troll.

                        These are the same people who say they wont buy an EV until they can get 1,200km per charge and can fill it in 30 seconds, but their current petrol car will only do 600km and require 10 mins to fill, just so they can drive it 20km round trip to work.

                        • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 16:04
                          +1

                          @pegaxs: Yeah thanks for the reminder, I was getting sucked in a bit there.

                          • OZKap on 12/11/2022 - 17:47
                            +8

                            @Dogsrule: My ozbargain experience has improved dramatically since blocking JV and a couple of other commenters

                            • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 20:25

                              @OZKap: Unfortunately I'm a glutton for punishment ha.

                              But yes, you've got the right idea.

                      • buckethat on 12/11/2022 - 15:12
                        +1

                        @Dogsrule: You never win arguing with jv. He/she/it is like the parent that doesnt listen to reason and continue to insist or stick to one archaic point.

                        • Maxxjet on 12/11/2022 - 15:27
                          +7

                          @buckethat: Why must any debate have a winner? I quite enjoyed the rational exchange of ideas with occasional humours( and sarcasm) … it helps with the understanding and people's perspectives( which is what OP asks for)

                          • buckethat on 12/11/2022 - 15:28

                            @Maxxjet: I think the debate loss it's value when JV's last two response is just.. 'Li-ion batteries lose capacity with every charge'

                          • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 16:35
                            +1

                            @Maxxjet: Good attitude to have!

                            • Kangal on 14/11/2022 - 21:47
                              +1

                              @Dogsrule: @Dogsrule Just want to say, that JV is actually correct. The current battery technology does lose capacity with time and each charge/discharge. It isn't Chemistry 101 but he is NOT wrong.

                              However, that's not the whole story.
                              It's important to note HOW MUCH is lost, and in WHAT TIME, and how this manifests itself in real-world USAGE.

                              Overall, I agree with you, albeit you lost the point. What does the Average Commute look like? Can battery technology service it? Would it be practical?
                              …that's what you need to discuss, and overall it's a "Yes". Lithium Ion Battery Technology works brilliantly for Boats, works well for Automobiles, and for Assisted Bikes/Scooters. It doesn't work well for Motorbikes, Paragliders, Planes, and it's laughable when it comes to Helicopters (requires a x40 increase in capacity lmao). The biggest hurdle is the financial and the infrastructure. So this is more of a transition that will happen within 30 years. From the early 2010 EVs, to the mainstream 2040 cars. We are at the midway point now, where it is feesible.

                              Far more important is to have 100% FREE public transportation, and have it very well connected in the major cities. We need to emphasise this. We can focus on cars after that.

                              • Dogsrule on 16/11/2022 - 16:54

                                @Kangal:

                                JV is actually correct. The current battery technology does lose capacity with time and each charge/discharge.

                                I never disputed this and actually agreed. My point was the modern LFP batteries with liquid cooling and advanced BMS have reduced the problem to a negligible level.

                                ICE's lose power and economy over time but it doesn't matter enough that we stop using ICE's. Same deal with the batteries we're discussing.

                                • Kangal on 16/11/2022 - 21:13

                                  @Dogsrule: I know you didn't dispute it, but your mistake was not to (out loud) accept his point and move on. You should have been a bit more accommodating (jv lol) for those few points raised, in my view.

                                  I mean, I personally got your point but he clearly didn't… because he parroted it over again. I'm not taking sides but overall I agree with you as that is closest to truth.

                                  There's no disputing that ICE lose performance and efficiency over deterioration, but a lot of that can be clawed back with a good tune up. And we can even exceed standard levels, as technology improves and we're replacing with better parts, oils, and fuel.

                                  But none of these points matter too much, when there's a discrepancy in the initial efficiency loss. Even if we used a Fossil Fuel generator to create electricity, then we transferred it over transmission lines, and topped up an EV. Despite all that, you'd still get better efficiency over an ICEV. Because an ICEngine achieves an efficiency between 20-40% where a large Electricity Plant will achieve closer to 50-70% iirc. And an eMotor will have an efficiency anywhere between 80-95%.

                                  But an EV is not that efficient when you compare it to public transport, even if they're ICE powered. So if the government is NOT lying when they say they want to be more environmentally friendly, sustainable, and green… they should really be putting their efforts there and getting solo-person's cars off the street.

                                  It's the low hanging fruit, but usually the right choices would be the unpopular ones, human nature and all that.

                                  • Dogsrule on 16/11/2022 - 23:20
                                    +1

                                    @Kangal: I'm absolutely for your points about public transport, but I was keen on sticking to the topic at hand which was about EV's vs ICEV's in 2022. I live in regional NSW with minimal public transport and work at a coal fired power station believe it or not, so I'm acutely aware of the benefits EV's bring to us all.

                                    However, I'm not interested in accommodating people like JV that never accommodate anybody else, those types of people are inherently unreasonable. I'd rather debate with good faith people like you.

                                    I think I'll leave it at that now.

                        • SlickMick on 12/11/2022 - 15:31
                          +1

                          @buckethat: But occasionally he's right.

                          I don't see anything in this conversation straying from fact. I don't think Li-ion batteries are going to work for cars in Australia, other than commuting.

                          • buckethat on 12/11/2022 - 15:35

                            @SlickMick:

                            In a car that costs 4 times as much

                            Not sure how factual this is.

                            • SlickMick on 12/11/2022 - 15:36

                              @buckethat: alright, he might has strayed a little… but the conversation was really about batteries, right?

                          • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 16:26
                            +2

                            @SlickMick:

                            I don't see anything in this conversation straying from fact.

                            I made a point about how modern LFP battery implementations in good EV's reduce the deterioration rate enough to make the issue irrelevant. When this point was ignored is the part where the argument strayed from fact.

                            If I said to you "from my experience with garden equipment, ICE's are too loud, not powerful enough, too thirsty, require too much maintenance and wear out too quickly to be used in cars" you would call BS right?

                            So when I hear "from my experience with the most simple lithium batteries in consumer electronics, they are unsuitable for cars", I act like somebody just told me ICEV's use the same technology used in lawnmowers.

                          • jv on 12/11/2022 - 16:43

                            @SlickMick:

                            I don't think Li-ion batteries are going to work for cars in Australia, other than commuting.

                            Exactly….

                            We need a different technology to solve this problem.

                            • Smol Cat on 12/11/2022 - 18:19
                              +1

                              @jv: Wtf is this guy on about. Seriously sound cooked af

                              • jv on 12/11/2022 - 18:20
                                -2

                                @Smol Cat:

                                Wtf is this guy on about.

                                Agree, they are just making stuff up now…

                                Li-ion batteries are not new and their limitations are well known.

                                • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 20:50

                                  @jv:

                                  Agree, they are just making stuff up now…

                                  Wow, TIL I invented the LFP battery used in millions of EV's produced over the last few years.

                                  I guess my name is John B. Goodenough

                              • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 20:24

                                @Smol Cat: I'm an EV owner with real world experience and a good handle on the current science of LFP.

                                What are you on about?

                                • Smol Cat on 13/11/2022 - 12:33
                                  +4

                                  @Dogsrule: I’m talking about JV mate. That bloke is cooked.

                                  • Dogsrule on 13/11/2022 - 14:38

                                    @Smol Cat: Oh my apologies, you replied to JV so I thought you were speaking to him, sorry about that.

                        • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 16:07
                          +1

                          @buckethat: I really tried to make a good faith argument, but that requires both parties to acknowledge each others points.

                        • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 20:27
                          +1

                          @buckethat: You're right, but I don't need to win, I'll just keep speaking about my real world experiences for other people to read and form their opinions.

                  • SlickMick on 12/11/2022 - 15:27
                    +1

                    @Dogsrule: I can't imagine 45min recharging stops ever catching on. There will need to be a phase 2 in EV technology before I'd consider an electric vehicle.

                    • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 16:16
                      +1

                      @SlickMick: Keep in mind the Newcastle-Brisbane trip had two charging stops of 20 mins each and the Newcastle-Melbourne trip was 3 stops of 20 mins each.

                      During all stops except for the last on the Melbourne trip the car finished charging before we finished our bathroom/meal breaks, so it added no time to our trip really (maybe 10min on the last stop).

                      I always stop every 4 hours for a break (at least) so I don't see charging as a problem as long as the charging network is up to scratch. Unfortunately you have to buy a Tesla to guarantee that right now.

                      • Windows7forever on 12/11/2022 - 20:34

                        @Dogsrule: How much charge did you get in only 20 minutes?

                        • Dogsrule on 12/11/2022 - 20:40

                          @Windows7forever: About 50%, the charge rate is very high when at low SOC. It's important to precondition the battery by routing to the charger using the onboard navigation to get these fast charge rates.

                          Tesla Model 3 LR with 82kWh battery.

                      • peter123445678 on 14/11/2022 - 21:05

                        @Dogsrule: With more ev on the road and each one need 40min to charge, ur charging time could be hours of waiting for an available spot. Look at those lines of tesla waiting for charging in us and China, they have far better infrastructure than us, not mention how easy the charging port can be out of work and u don’t have enough juice to get to another one. EV still have a long way to go and need some significant technology innovation to actually become mainstream.

      • bbinc on 12/11/2022 - 18:50

        Ssusshh! Don’t give away the long term ‘get them” strategy. You know you mean “then we can charge ten tuple the price for electricity!’

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