"The Rancilio Silvia V6 Coffee Machine is undoubtedly the world’s most popular budget compact espresso machine. Featuring pro-level equipment like a commercial-grade brass group head 58mm portafilter and tamper, this is a machine that’s had plenty of experience on the benches within homes around the world. This understanding of what a quality machine is to the end consumer, Rancilio knows better than most."
Black also available for $1,052.90
Referrer receives $5 coupon, Referee receives $10 coupon on email signup.
The BES920 is a plastic fantastic. Landfill fodder decades before a Silvia lands on top.
Much more solidly built, but much more difficult to get good shots out of, and can't steam and brew at the same time. I say this every time a Silvia deal comes up, but I just don't think it makes much sense to buy anymore. It got it's great reputation back 15-20 years ago when there was no competition at this pricepoint.
Having said that, it will last forever.
Mine is going strong about 10 years old now. Great machine!
Watching that video, if you follow Joshua's workflow, waste a lot of water it seem.
Probably better to brew first, then wait for the steam to build up for frothing.
I agree and do that too. It is easier, tastes better, and uses less water.
16g basket? ,2g less than my Breville Barista express.
They seriously remade the Rancilio Silvia and didn't think to add a PID?
They had to leave that feature out to justify the Rancilio Silvia Pro :(
Along with the extra boiler, pressure gauge, pre infusion etc etc
So essentially the BES920 which I picked up for $725 but may break sooner or be harder to service vs the Rancilio Silvia Pro with comparable features for a cool $2,000 at least if not more. Easy choice
with comparable features
Under the hood they're different machines. The Silvia Pro weighs 7KG more than the Breville. You won't find any plastic or stainless steel for the boilers (brass).
But for most use cases, yeah, I wouldn't fork out for the Pro at that price.
The Silvia being on sale for the price of the BES920 Dual Boiler naturally brings up comparisons but feature wise they are different approaches to make coffee at home.
Both machines require regular routine maintenance.
The BES920 adjusts its schedules for water hardness, then reminds you to run cleaning cycles, change the water filters, and run a descale.
Rancilio Silvia is a simpler, robust design which uses its large boiler to provide a predictable extraction temperature due to its thermal inertia. To get repeatable extraction some need to use "temperature surfing" where they start extraction at some point after the heater thermostat switches.
The BES920 manages the temperature of both boilers without any need for surfing with control systems that need faster feedback than a simple thermostat, so there are thermal probes in the boilers, which can degrade with water hardness, are removable, replaceable and sealed with o-rings.
I have put a note on my calendar to take my BES920 in for service a few weeks before the 2y warranty expires, and will then book it in every few years (or if I ever hear steam inside).
Over time, seals at the top of the boilers need to be maintained by changing them after 2 years and then every 18 months or so, otherwise eventually there is a strong chance of steam escaping inside the machine and causing damage requiring replacement of electronic and power components.
Had mine for 10 years still going!
Most finicky machine I've ever used. Not for the faint hearted or a beginner looking for an 'easy' good coffee straight out the box.
Probably the most important comment here. If you're a rusted-on member of the coffeesnobs forums then this machine will tickle you exactly where you like, and give you plenty of opportunities to tinker, fiddle, and prove exactly what a clever-clogs you are.
If you want a machine that'll make a passable to good cup with a wide range of beans, you'll be out of luck, because this thing is fussy, and the trial-and-error process of getting it to make anything drinkable will be too annoying/expensive for most punters.
I like (don't love) mine and even now it'll only produce a decent coffee under extremely specific conditions.
I agree, I bought one second hand after about 2 years experience on Breville Express, so I thought I had a pretty good idea how to make a decent coffee.
I was wrong could not master it to make anything close to drinkable on the Silvia, so sold it after a month and still using the Breville.
I'm still sure it is a great machine, I just wasn't ready for that level of commitment at 6am every morning.
Thanks OP.
My first great machine, does require some skill but will reward you with quality coffee. Highly recommend. Mine never missed a beat in 9 years apart from some rust in the under tray so important to keep dry - unless they fixed it.
At the end I upgraded and sold it for $100 less than I bought it as the price had increased for the new model over time. Not sure a 2nd hand Sunbeam or similar would have held its value.
Happy owner of a 5 year old BES920 here. Hasn't had a major service yet so I'm expecting $250-300 at some point including return freight to Breville when something major breaks. Could probably sell the machine now for $350 and avoid that service cost making the overall difference minimal to upgrade to a fancy new Italian machine. Decisions, decisions.
May I ask what are the advantages of this one compared to the other popular entry level machine Gaggia classic pro?
Silvia has a bigger boiler, so will heat up slower but steam better and do back to back shots better. It's a bit more solidly built. The Gaggia used to have an aluminium boiler which could corrode, I'm not sure if this is still an issue with the current models?
E (cut off) model vs M (no cut off) model - whats the consensus?
I'm very glad I got the E model. I simply have too few braincells to remember to turn my machine off, and the damn thing would probably have burned out by now if I'd gone with the M. If it does cut off there's no issue instantly starting it again, and it'll reheat in a moment or two.
Great feedback, thanks, was leaning towards the E model!
How long does it need to be idle for before cutting out?
30 mins
We have both! On our second BES920 since the first one died (boiler needed replacement). Our Silvia V3 w/ PID (which we normally use when we go away) served as a backup during the warranty repair & replacement period and has performed flawlessly over the 4 years we've owned it. I agree with most others in this thread - the BES920 does a better job of extracting thanks to (I presume) a stronger pump, takes less time to heat up and can of course froth milk at the same time. That being said, they are not built to last, so I would expect to replace within 5 years. The Silvia is rock solid and adding a PID improves the temperature control dramatically. The steam wand is better, but as I said being just a single boiler turns it into a bit of a process to make multiple coffees.
Hmm, this or a breville dual boiler with the slayer mod…
If you would make use of the slayer functionality, then 100% go with the modded Breville.
Great machines, if looked after well will serve very well for ages.
I think I had a V4? Wrapped all the internal 'hot' pipes and boiler with appropriate thermal insulation & also added basic digital temp probe (which is a quick and easy alternative to a PID - not as good but still gives some temp guidance).
Like others the 'heat up' headstart shitted me (insulating does cut 1/3 off this) but just found quality stovetop gives espresso-ish type results, with no worry about a bad tamp etc and I didn't want textured milk. Super simple, fast and no loss of oodles of benchtop space. Combine with ncie handgrinder (Timemore Chestnut) and DIY roasted beans. Pretty damn good.
just found quality stovetop
Any tips for an induction unit?
Thats exactly what i have. My induction cooktop is a V-Zug (silly overpriced Swiss brand I got heavily marked down as it was scratched).
The stovetop unit I think is a 4 -cup (bear in mind they normally express this in terms of how many cups of espresso it makes at max fill). It's An Avanti branded one, this exact one. Just get the biggest one you think will suit - we drink 'latte/flat white' hybrid style, milks heated in microwave - but don;t fall into trap of ordering one thats too small.
It's been faultless - again whats 'best' for coffee depends on whats you preferred style of coffee and then trade offs - and after trying quality versions of just about everything (other then pod machines) we settled on this several yrs ago and haven't looked back. Obviously you then need to learn how to make stovetop properly but it's very simple - essentially don't rush it!
I love that cleanup etc takes seconds, no maintenance and with your lil DIY tools (i.e cutdown paper cup to make a collar to assist loading coffee into the 'portafilter' - its very easy to load and go.
My personal theory is they're snoozed on as a style of coffee as EVERYONE'S had them - but it's generally always been done badly i.e burnt &/or rushed extraction or done in nasty old aluminium ones which IMHO impart a nasty flavour.
I have the Bialetti Musa 4 cap and can use it with an induction cooktop.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZUy-V3WmDFw
If you're a single fella, no kids and want a new hobby go the Rancilio. If you have babies - kids - wife - time poor - and need a god-damned coffee now! go a Breville.
Pretty much sums it up. Rancilio for enthusiasts who get enjoyment out of tinkering, BDB if you find that stuff a hassle.
I do have a family, but I find the Rancilio quite a bit of fun to drive. This might not have been the case when my now teen was a toddler though.
It's only when I have guests that I wish I had a dual boiler, but I'd probably save my pennies for one of the commercial style machines if I went that way.
How would people recommend this machine or something similar for a fairly experienced barista?
I worked in many bars and restaurants over the past years and have made many coffees using excellent machines.
Last year I bought the Breville barista pro, and honestly it's coffee no matter the time I put in finessing the brew, just tastes garbage and lackluster. Admittedly the steam wand is excellent.
I love making coffee and I love a cup of good quality coffee. Should I splurge on a new rsncilio? Or are there other.ops?
I can already see people saying "buy a better grinder and then if the espresso is still terrible buy the Silvia "
Honestly nothing at this level is going to compare to a commercial La Marzocco that you’re probably used to
Yea I can imagine that's the case, but regardless the Breville isn't it.
I'm sure some of them come close.
I would really say "buy a better grinder and then if the espresso is still terrible buy a better machine".
What grinder are you using?
Also honestly if you are experienced and skilled, and can taste the difference, perhaps a prosumer machine is below you? Ie: you would be looking at something better like a Profitec Pro 600
I'm using the built in grinder.
Its not great, I'll give them that it's easy and makes half decent go juice. But we still opt to buy coffee from the cafe beside us as it doesn't hit the same.
Ahh I've seen this. It looks like a transformer haha. Why must it be so ugly?
No offence but the built in grinders in these machines are not great! I've not used the machine you have before but going on other similar machines I've used I think the biggest issue you are going to have is the grinder…I have the Brevill Dual Boiler and been using the Eureka Mignon Specialita grinder which has been great! I think it will improve your coffee even with your existing machine considrably!
I got my grinder for this company overseas:
https://www.espressocoffeeshop.com/en/espresso-grinders/55-1…
Tip: Use the "Ask for a discount coupon" to get a further discount off this grinder if you are interested… there will be shipping and tax but it still works out much less than locally.. Good luck!
Buy La Marzocco linea mini and a good grinder like Erika Helios. If you want budget good grinder Macap m2m.
The barista pro pales compared to the dual
boiler. That said, with your experience, you probably want to go higher end, like PC Hammond and test123123 suggest. Linea mini, GS3, profitec, decent, slayer, that sort of thing.
Man I was just saying how the profitec is so ugly.
However, thaf linea mini is awesome! Looks like ones I've used. But 8k. Sheesh. + A decent grinder that's nearly 10k.
But also, amazing bean juice.
I would say try fresh beans and grinding finer first.
This or a Gaggia Classic?
I have had this model for close to a decade and I love it more than my wife and kids and my dog to be honest. Nothing in my life provides me with happiness than the guarantee everyday of drinking the perfect coffee.
I managed to get a V2 from 2008 on marketplace for free, along with the rocky grinder. It just needed a thorough clean, and it was good to go. It definitely needs a longer warm-up than just waiting for the orange light to go off, and benefits from running at least one blind shot through the portafilter - my mate who's been in R&D with a major coffee group suggested that the grouphead and portafilter should be hot before pulling the first proper shot. He also said that if pulling more than one shot the Rancilio boiler tends to overheat with use, so it's worth running it for a second or two and ensuring that it's not steaming, immediately before you do the next one.
On a completely separate note, I wonder if anyone has recommendations for an upgrade to the rocky grinder - I'd specifically want something that can produce a finer grind, and maintain its consistency. If it could be quiter, that would also be a huge positive!
how is this a deal, Breville dual boilers are close to this price and are 2 classes above
My Breville died less than 3 years.
Mine’s on its 6th.
FWIW
Please use good water with your machines. It makes your coffee taste better and also reduces the need for servicing dramatically/increases the machines lifespan!
Some city water supply is honestly junk, and your little filter on the machine won't do much. If you can, aim for at least a Brita C150 setup. If you can't plumb in anything, even a Brita water filter from Colesworth will be better than straight from the tap (not by that much, but still better).
Hard water clogs up the internals pretty fast.
Isn't the Colesworth Brita just an activated carbon filter with a fine woven fabric particle pre filter? The BES920 filter would appear to do the same thing, not sure about Rancilio.
Pretty much, but better than nothing.
And I'd bet that people change the filter more in their Brita than their BES920 lol.
I use the C150 filter and nothing even shows up when doing dip stick tests. I find it brilliant and don't even put a filter in my BES920
Hard water clogs up the internals pretty fast.
Do we even have anything approaching hard water in Syd or Aus in general?
In any case, basic filtered water is a min for this machine.
Adelaide water is terrible. Every time I go there, I can't drink the tap water.
I got this machine a few months ago and instantly regretted it! It has taken quite a few months and youtube videos to finally have a workflow that works. It makes excellent coffee once you work about the grinder settings that work. If I could go back I would get something like an Oracle purely for the convenience of it all. This machine is hard work and not for the faint hearted! The heating times are not as bad if its turned on as soon as you wake up and make the coffee after getting ready for work. I m waiting for the warranty period to pass and then will get a PID.
Bullet proof I have one that I bought in 07 and is still going solid. I did a PID upgrade.
Get one of these and you will almost never need a new machine unless you break it yourself.
Was that hard? I have always wanted to the do the PID. I can solder and tools are not the issue, just worried I'll cactus the machine!
It looks daunting, but if you are decent with electronics (build a PC from components etc) you should be OK.
There was no soldering, it took about 2 hours because I checked and double checked and marked off each step.
If you get one, go to Auber Instruments which is much cheaper than the local resellers. I just checked and did mine in 2015, it is now $100 cheaper!!
Definitely worth doing to take your Silvia to the next level.
I love my old Silvia, either a V1 or V2 and still chugging along. Only complaint is a slightly leaky steam wand that I've been too lazy to fix. I've only had one part fail in over ten years, which was the solenoid valve. Relatively simple fix, although took a while to get the part imported.
As everyone has said, these are built like tanks (I have recently bought a used v2 with some upgraded bits).
What is everyone’s temperature surfing routine? I struggle to find the right temperature / consistency.
Ex barista and owned an old silvia for a decade:
Start with a warm machine. Run some water through the group head until the light comes on (the light just means that it's activated the boiler), wait for the light to turn off. It's now at the top of its temperature range, which is too hot to brew. Run some water again to get rid of any steam, do this for a few seconds until it stops spluttering and starts flowing normally. Pull your shot. The light should not turn back on during your shot, if it does then you took too long and let the two drop too much.
Sounds like a pain but once you get a routine happening it's very easy to get consistent shots. I've never felt the need for a PID because temperate surfing works fine.
That does sound fairly annoying.
It takes like two minutes. Plus it's not like I'm standing around waiting for the little light to turn off, I'm using that time to grind and tamp the coffee.
Yeah don't be a sucker for mods and accessorise, my Gaggia classic pre 15 would make as gold coffee, limited to the beans
I let it heat up for 30-45min then pull a shot until the light turns back on. THen when the light turns back on pull 2-3 seconds of water, then do my shot.
Works like a charm.
PID upgrade - surfing is for wusses!!
Just get a Bezzera Mateix and be done with it.. :P
Had mine for 2 years, love it. No regrets. Pair mine with a Eureka Silencio grinder, very happy with the results.
Also worth pointing out that all machines require this kind of maintenance, it's not unique to the Breville.