Income Tax Rate For Liberal and Labor?

Layass3 on 30/03/2022 - 19:44
Last edited 30/03/2022 - 19:44

Hi,
I would like to know if there is a difference in the amount of income tax that you pay between liberal and labor government, or does it always stay the same?
If there is a difference, which government would I pay a lower income tax?

I have lived and worked in Australia for a number of years now. However, I only became an Australian citizen last year so I have to vote this year.
I watched the federal budget on TV but wasn't able to find any information on this.

My annual income is $87k.

https://www.ato.gov.au/rates/individual-income-tax-rates/

Thanks

Financial Tax

Comments

          • Drakesy on 31/03/2022 - 12:10
            +1

            @ThithLord: Just assumed everyone on Ozb was making the mandatory $150k+ salary a year for membership.

            My bad

            • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 12:11

              @Drakesy: Only on my green-energy ethically invested Super, brus

    • Spam Service on 31/03/2022 - 14:39
      +18

      Liberals have generally had a history of lower tax rates

      If you're talking recent history, this simply isn't true though. The Tax-To-GDP ratio was at its highest ever under Howard.The tax rate under Gillard,Rudd, and eve Keating was lower than Morrison, Turnbull, Abbott, and Howard.

      The Liberals are simply better at marketing the idea that they don't tax as much.

      • ribze1 on 31/03/2022 - 21:19
        +4

        hey hey hey don't be coming in here with real data and facts that prove the Libs have a record of being high taxing Gov'ts.

  • mskeggs on 30/03/2022 - 20:15
    +38

    Welcome aboard, glad to have you as a citizen.
    When voting, I think it is important to consider what is the best for the whole country, now and in the future.
    Taxes are a small part of that, and don't vary dramatically, as others have said. Often, it is other decisions, or lack of action, that have the biggest effects. For example, a little change like investor taxes concessions on houses leads to a real estate bubble 25 years later, or ignoring climate change results in floods and fires, or selling off public housing results in homeless people on our streets.

    From what I have seen, almost invariably, making small 'popular' savings often results in large long term costs.

    • ayass3 on 30/03/2022 - 20:27
      +5

      Thanks.

      Aside from income tax the other things I also consider important to me are a good healthcare system and houses to be more affordable and living costs to be reasonable. The only thing I was happy with in the budget was the fuel excise cut but that's only temporary. The other things don't make much sense.

      • Drakesy on 30/03/2022 - 20:32
        +48

        If its healthcare you want and want to keep you'd be looking at the labor party to thank for that

        That was under the whitlam government where they introduced it. The liberals of the day tried to quash it and complained it would cost too much, tbh its one of the best things that Australia has going for it.

      • pompompom on 01/04/2022 - 08:39
        +1

        Just vote Labor. Scotty been sniffing too many coal fumes lately, not great for logical thinking.

        • jv on 01/04/2022 - 12:11
          -4

          Just vote Labor

          Albo is too incompetent…

          He's never had a real job.
          He's spent his whole life living off our taxes in government jobs.

          Has he ever tried to run a business? Employ people productively to contribute to this country?

          • SBOB on 01/04/2022 - 12:26
            +8

            @jv:

            He's never had a real job.

            and you're comparing that to Scomo?
            apart from his handful of years straight out of uni in a National lobby group job

            • Tourism Council government job
            • Office of Tourism and Sport government job
            • Liberal party job

            None of these aren't living off our taxes in government jobs (and some of those are soft political appointed jobs also)
            So has Scomo ever tried to run a business? Employ people productively to contribute to this country?

            • jv on 01/04/2022 - 12:28
              -2

              @SBOB:

              and you're comparing that to Scomo?

              deflecting the question… LOL

              Is that you Dan ?

              • SBOB on 01/04/2022 - 12:41
                +3

                @jv: It's your basis for reviewing a politicians competency

                I'm just querying how you can be a staunch liberal supporter of scomo while using that as a basis for your opinion.

                You continue to be a riddle wrapped in an enigma…

                • jv on 01/04/2022 - 12:45
                  -1

                  @SBOB:

                  It's your basis for reviewing a politicians competency

                  Nope

                  • SBOB on 01/04/2022 - 12:48
                    +3

                    @jv:

                    Nope

                    My mistake, must have been your other personality that raised that argument..

                    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/comment/11953781/redir

                    You continue to be a riddle wrapped in an enigma wrapped in pointless font changes wrapped in inconstencies.

                    • jv on 01/04/2022 - 12:50
                      -1

                      @SBOB:

                      My mistake

                      You're forgiven…

                      Be more careful next time.

  • techlead on 30/03/2022 - 20:23
    +26

    I personally think that using tax rates as the only measure on which to base your vote is flawed.

    Ask yourself this, we have an amazing health care system here in Australia, would you give that up for say a 20% reduction in your taxes? Maybe have a system like the US, where drugs can cost you $600 a dose and MRI scan can cost you thousands?

    You need to look at both ends of the scale, the services that is provided and the amount you pay. I think taxes is the price you pay for a civilised society where you are well supported like public healthcare. It makes no sense to not have a public system, it is best to pool funds together to have a public system than the one in the US, its much much better.

    Look at the vision of each party. I think the Coalition are just too comfortable with power. Did you know the NSW liberal party got dissolved because they refused to endorse sitting federal members lol, its a joke. I think anyone else is better than ScoMo right now.

    The sad reality of our political system is that the election will be decided by a handful of marginal seats, the rest will just blindly vote for ALP or Coalition. So not all votes are equal, voters in those marginal seats get more perks because the two parties try extra hard to win them over. Watch where ScoMo and Albo goes during the campaign.

    • ayass3 on 30/03/2022 - 20:34
      +2

      I completely understand and agree with what you're saying with the US and Australia.

      I am happy with the healthcare system and everything in Australia as it currently is. So I'm not looking for a 20% reduction in taxes. I am happy for my tax rate to stay exactly the same going into the future. Basically I don't want it to rise. I was initially just wanting to know if it will change depending on which party is government but it seems that it usually stays the same based on what some other posters have said.

      • idonotknowwhy on 30/03/2022 - 20:57
        +21

        From what you've posted overall (87k, and you care about public health), it sounds like ALP aligns with your values more than LNP.

        • Beef jerky time on 31/03/2022 - 10:39
          +18

          This applies to the vast majority of people. Huge numbers of people vote Liberal against their best interests thanks to Rupert Murdoch. The Liberals are the party of corruption, waste and funneling money to themselves and their mates. They do not care about you or your children's future in the slightest.

      • Intoxicoligist on 01/04/2022 - 08:52

        The tax rate itself likely wont change, although the Liberal party are planning a tax cut for High Income Earners in 2023/4, which wont impact you as you're not earning enough.

        It sounds like money is the motivating factor here, which is ok, its good to have a clear motive. If that's the case tax rate isn't the only thing to take into account, as you've got to look at cost of living, wage growth, and inflation. Info from the past 20 years shows that under the Liberal government wage growth has stagnated, tax remains the same, cost of living has risen more than inflation alone would suggest, and inflation itself is high.

        TL;DR - Even IF (and its a big if) Labor won and increased tax by 1% across the board, the changes they tend to make usually increase wage growth more than that. As someone on 100k I'll be voting for Labor knowing that I wont be financially worse off if they get in.

      • jv on 01/04/2022 - 12:53

        I am happy with the healthcare system and everything in Australia as it currently is.

        You've obviously not needed an ambulance in Victoria in recent times…

        Lots of people have died because 000 are not answering in time and ambulances are not available.

    • idonotknowwhy on 30/03/2022 - 20:53
      +11

      Good thing is we can put an independant as #1, and just make sure we put ALP above LNP further down.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bleyX4oMCgM

      Shit-lite is still better than Shit.

      • jsrz18 on 30/03/2022 - 20:58
        -1

        tbh I don't really understand the voting system at all.

        You can't have an independent candidate being the government nor can you have the united australia party be the government.

        It will always be alp or lnp.

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 30/03/2022 - 21:55
          +2

          Watch the youtube vid again. It's not that complex.

        • idonotknowwhy on 31/03/2022 - 11:32

          This video (also by the juice media) explains why you might one to put an first.
          I personally don't want to, but since you believe ALP and LNP are mostly the same, you might?
          The most important thing for your vote card though, is the relative position of ALP and LNP.

          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnzaiYrvvrw

          ALP and LNP really aren't the same or even similar though. I used to think they were as well when I wasn't paying attention, because that's how the mainstream media frame everything.

          • jsrz18 on 31/03/2022 - 12:44
            -2

            @idonotknowwhy: I don't think they're the same but I think they're very similar.

            Last election the ALP were quite different with certain policies and then they lost the election so now they are even more similar in order to get votes.

            Happy for either LNP or ALP to be in government. Don't really read into the minor parties and independents.

        • Quantumcat on 31/03/2022 - 11:50
          +3

          Putting an independent as #1 gives them money (they pay a deposit to be able to run and only get it back if they get enough votes). Having an independent get votes also shakes up the power as they see people care about the issues that independent is running for.

          Preferential system means that if the person you vote #1 gets the least number of votes, your vote moves onto your #2 preference, and if that is still the smallest, then #3 etc. The only thing really that matters is that you put the major party you would prefer in government in front of the one you don't want in government. Who you put as #1 doesn't really matter except that you're sending a message you care about whatever they're campaigning for

          I haven't watched the video but I assume it is explaining how the preferential system works

          • tomfool on 31/03/2022 - 14:42
            +2

            @Quantumcat: This is the best way to send a message that you are not happy with the major parties.

          • jacross on 31/03/2022 - 19:10
            +1

            @Quantumcat: They only get money if they pass a certain threshold (which I think is 2 or 4% or something around that but I haven't looked into it in a while).

        • johnno07 on 31/03/2022 - 16:25
          +1

          tbh I don't really understand the voting system at all.

          Please learn how to vote before you vote. It's not hard. You more or less just vote in order of candidates you think best represent your views on what is good for you and your country, now and in the future.

          You can't have an independent candidate being the government nor can you have the united australia party be the government.

          Why can't you have an independent in government? If they closely align with your views why wouldn't you want them in there? They are your representative. Sure they will never represent a majority, but they may be able to apply a modicum of pressure when it comes to the bigger parties trying to get votes across the line. It's way better than voting for one of the major parties simply because "It will always be alp or lnp."

  • djones145 on 30/03/2022 - 21:21

    is that u scomo

    a y ass

    I'll vote for ya if u splash some more cash

    all Labor voters in the last election if they change to liberal gets 2k

    • poboy on 30/03/2022 - 22:41
      +4

      Please elaborate.

    • Drakesy on 31/03/2022 - 11:40
      +9

      You spelt let harvey norman, qantas and jbhifi choose how to distribute the money wrong

    • Quantumcat on 31/03/2022 - 11:54
      +1

      In other words, it is like giving all your income to your children to spend on lollies and plastic toys, and then all of you starving to death on the streets, instead of investing in a home to live in and food for the table

    • idonotknowwhy on 31/03/2022 - 16:20
      +3

      Libs let you decide how you want to distribute your money

      Guess I must have chosen to distribute millions to Dutton's mates this time then

  • AustriaBargain on 30/03/2022 - 22:59
    +9

    Your children and your children's children might not be as fortunate as you are, so you should probably vote for what's best for the country as a whole rather than what's best for you.

  • ayass3 on 30/03/2022 - 23:05

    Is it generally true that people usually vote for the same party their whole lives?

    Or do people change all the time?

    • p1 ama on 30/03/2022 - 23:26
      +2

      Is it generally true that people usually vote for the same party their whole lives?

      Yes, I have voted for the same party for my whole life, which was also the party my dad voted for his entire life, which was also the party my grandfather voted for his entire life. When you look at the margins of elections, e.g. swings of a few percentage points, I would surmise that the vast, vast majority of people vote for the same party their entire life, or at least don't change very regularly. You have perhaps ~5% that are genuine swing voters.

      • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 10:36
        +6

        Or, embarrassingly, was an NPC and voted one way until seeing the lgiht and changing tact hardcore to vote another way. (Me. It was me. I was an informal voter/LNP voter till 2014~ish)

        • Quantumcat on 31/03/2022 - 11:55
          +2

          Good for you!

          • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 12:01
            +1

            @Quantumcat: I say voted one way - 2007 and 2013 I voted LNP, embarrassingly (when I was first enrolled to vote). "No one does anything for little old me, anyway!*. I don't know how the GFC stimulus was allocated cos I missed out (I was making around 35-40k a yr at that stage as a fresh adult)

            I was then enlightened around 2015 to which party actually works in Australia's interests and have ever since tried to enlighten other NPCs.

            • tryagain on 31/03/2022 - 13:59
              -3

              @ThithLord:

              I was then enlightened around 2015 to which party actually works in Australia's interests

              They all act in Australia's interest, it just takes 2nd place to getting re-elected.

              If you believe any party is fundamentally better than the others in this regard you have been fooled.

              • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 14:15
                +5

                @tryagain: Going by Labor's track record and the LNP's track record, bro - your hands in the air approach is ridiculous.

                The ALP have a proven track record of far better caretaking of Australia. Just because you read differently in the Daily Telegraph doesn't mean it's true.

                The LNP absolutely love despondent voters. The mediascape love them, too.

                • tryagain on 01/04/2022 - 00:36
                  +1

                  @ThithLord:

                  The ALP have a proven track record of far better caretaking of Australia.

                  Can you point to an objective evidence for this, I am all ears.

                  I am not despondent, I am just not nieve enough to think one party is always right and one party is always wrong. I am an issues based voter, not a party based one, but you can think whatever you like.

                  Anyone who says one major party is good and the other one is bad is putting partisan politics above what's best for Australia, if you can't be critical of both the majors, your just the same as the rusted on voters on the other side of the fence.

                  One side says "Murdoch media is biased" the other side says "the big social media companies are biased" both probably have some truth, both are also just probably serving up what their respective audience's want to read.

                  If the media you are absorbing says one side good, other side bad, you need to broaden your influence.

                  • ThithLord on 01/04/2022 - 10:51
                    +4

                    @tryagain:

                    Can you point to an objective evidence for this, I am all ears.

                    Sure. Australia's economy during the GFC was the best performing economy in the world
                    Ever heard of Medicare?
                    Ever heard of Super?
                    Ever heard of the NDIS?
                    Ever driven down the dual carriageway Pacific Highway?
                    Ever earned penalty rates, mate? Where do you think these came from, the Liberals?
                    Lower taxes - this has been proven, already, multiple times. Every single LNP shill who says Labor tax more cannot provide an iota of evidence. I have, multiple times, in this thread alone.
                    Environmental protections - do you agree with these? Well, Labor push these every time they're in government. Remember that $444m sent offshore by the LNP "for" the Great Barrier Reef, to some shady organisation run out of a shed? Seen any of that money spent yrt, TryAgain?

                    I mean, all you gotta do is check Anthony Albanese's voted strongly for voting record here:

                    A carbon price
                    A fast transition from fossil fuels to renewable energy
                    A minerals resource rent tax
                    A Royal Commission into Violence and Abuse against People with Disability
                    Carbon farming
                    Considering legislation to create a federal anti-corruption commission (procedural)
                    Decreasing the private health insurance rebate
                    Doctor-initiated medical transfers for asylum seekers
                    Ending illegal logging
                    Extending government benefits to same-sex couples
                    Federal government action on animal & plant extinctions
                    Increasing access to the JobKeeper Payment
                    Increasing availability of abortion drugs
                    Increasing competition in bulk wheat export
                    Increasing consumer protections
                    Increasing fishing restrictions
                    Increasing funding for vocational education
                    Increasing marine conservation
                    Increasing penalties for breach of data
                    Increasing political transparency
                    Increasing protection of Australia's fresh water
                    Increasing restrictions on gambling
                    Increasing support for the Australian shipping industry
                    Increasing the diversity of media ownership
                    Increasing trade unions' powers in the workplace
                    Letting environmental groups challenge the legality of certain government decisions
                    Parliament continuing to meet during the COVID-19 pandemic
                    Re-approving/ re-registering agvet chemicals
                    Recognising local government in the Constitution
                    Removing children from immigration detention
                    Requiring every native title claimant to sign land use agreements
                    Restricting donations to political parties
                    Restricting foreign ownership
                    Same-sex marriage equality
                    Stem cell research
                    The Carbon Pollution Reduction Scheme

                    versus Scott SloMo Morrison voted strongly for:

                    A citizenship test
                    A plebiscite on the carbon pricing mechanism
                    A same-sex marriage plebiscite
                    An Australian Building and Construction Commission (ABCC)
                    Banning mobiles and other devices in immigration detention
                    Charging postgraduate research students fees
                    Civil celebrants having the right to refuse to marry same-sex couples
                    Compensating victims of overseas terrorism since the September 11 attack
                    Decreasing availability of welfare payments
                    Deregulating undergraduate university fees
                    Drug testing welfare recipients
                    Getting rid of Sunday and public holiday penalty rates
                    Government administered paid parental leave
                    Greater control over items brought into immigration detention centres
                    Increasing eligibility requirements for Australian citizenship
                    Increasing funding for road infrastructure
                    Increasing indexation of HECS-HELP debts
                    Increasing state and territory environmental approval powers
                    Increasing the initial tax rate for working holiday makers to 19%
                    Increasing the Medicare Levy to pay for the National Disability Insurance Scheme
                    Increasing the price of subsidised medicine
                    Making more water from Murray-Darling Basin available to use
                    Political intervention in research funding grants
                    Prioritising religious freedom
                    Privatising certain government services
                    Putting welfare payments onto cashless debit cards (or indue cards) on an ongoing basis
                    Recognising local government in the Constitution
                    Reducing the corporate tax rate
                    Senate electoral reform
                    Temporary Exclusion Orders
                    Temporary protection visas
                    The Coalition's new schools funding policy ("Gonski 2.0")
                    The Intervention in the Northern Territory
                    Tighter means testing of family payments
                    Turning back asylum boats when possible
                    Voluntary student union fees

                    I can pull up the things they vote strongly against but it's much the same - LNP vote strongly against many Australian interests

                    • tryagain on 03/04/2022 - 23:13

                      @ThithLord: I don't really know where to start, but here are a few ones that show no objective thought is being used.

                      Ever heard of Medicare

                      Yep, it's great, probably Labor's greatest achievement, but that was nearly 40yrs ago.

                      Ever heard of Super

                      Yep, again, a great idea, but supported by both parties, and around for a long time with the majority already having it before it was made compulsory, the Coalition actually set up the future fund to fund unfunded superannuation entitlements of public servants, because good ideas still need to be paid for. The last rise went through under the Morrison government. Yes, super is a good idea, but it's not just a Labor thing.

                      Ever driven down the dual carriageway Pacific Highway?

                      How on earth you attribute this one to Labor is beyond me. Care to share, not just promises, but who in government has delivered it, it seems to be there have been NSW state and federal governments in power when the majority of it was undertaken.

                      voting record here

                      They vote for you is anything but objective, it's a "pack of lies" (non Murdoch source for you https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/pack-of-lies-liberal…) They basically happily lie to try and sway voters, all the while pretending to be impartial.

                      You need to stop watching shills like Jordan Shanks, and read some objective political observations. Labour has some good ideals, but you need to pull your head out of the sand, you are being played.

                      • ThithLord on 04/04/2022 - 08:42

                        @tryagain:

                        Yep, it's great, probably Labor's greatest achievement, but that was nearly 40yrs ago

                        Yeah, which party cripples it every chance they get, and which party strengthens it? It's in the ALP's National Policy. Check their website

                        Yep, again, a great idea, but supported by both parties, and around for a long time with the majority already having it before it was made compulsory, the Coalition actually set up the future fund to fund unfunded superannuation entitlements of public servants, because good ideas still need to be paid for. The last rise went through under the Morrison government. Yes, super is a good idea, but it's not just a Labor thing.

                        lol the last rise went through with Morrison because the Rudd Government legislated the increase from 2015~ but Tony Abbott deferred it until July 2021. This article is by Paul Keating (one of Australia's most revered politicians)

                        How on earth you attribute [the Pacific Motorway] one to Labor is beyond me. Care to share, not just promises, but who in government has delivered it, it seems to be there have been NSW state and federal governments in power when the majority of it was undertaken.

                        The Federal ALP funded and executed the upgrade of this motorway to a dual-carriageway after a few horror multiple-fatality crashes in Albanese's memory prompted his action. He describes it in great detail here - even going on to denigrate previous Labor governments for not addressing the dangers of this highway.

                        They vote for you is anything but objective, it's a "pack of lies" (non Murdoch source for you https://www.smh.com.au/politics/federal/pack-of-lies-liberal…) They basically happily lie to try and sway voters, all the while pretending to be impartial.

                        lol so your proof is what these two slime-balls have to say for the matter? Did you even read the entire article? The reason their votes didn't show "correctly" is because they literally didn't vote on it…. the website can only, by nature, show how they vote. And, C'mon, seriously? You can't see the difference between SloMo's voting record and Mr Albanese's? You're gonna rely on the Party of Free speech's litigation as proof?

                        This guy can explain what happened in four minutes (this guy never talks about Labor, before you jump to your tried and failed LaBoUr sHiLL!!!!1) by the way, it's spelt Labor.

                        You need to stop watching shills like Jordan Shanks, and read some objective political observations. Labour has some good ideals, but you need to pull your head out of the sand, you are being played

                        I don't. I read from independent news sources like Michael West. Independent Australia, True Crime weekly, Klaxon, Pearls and Irritations etc. Nice try, though.

                        • RichardRides on 06/04/2022 - 07:48
                          +1

                          @ThithLord: https://theyvoteforyou.org.au/ is an excellent source of FACTS. No bias, just the actual voting record of our elected representatives.
                          You’ve quoted what they voted for, but it’s equally enlightening to look at what they voted against.

                          • ThithLord on 06/04/2022 - 09:00

                            @RichardRides: Yeah, mate. Not sure if you're indicating something I've said is wrong, or?

      • cashless on 31/03/2022 - 15:00
        +1

        You have perhaps ~5% that are genuine swing voters

        And these people are the ones that decide the outcome of elections

    • USER DC on 30/03/2022 - 23:58

      anything can change with time.

      if

      people usually vote for the same party their whole lives?

      If that was the case we would be a dictatorship.
      plus, if not so then how the heck do we get swings in votes, (new voters? no not really).
      because people get a sense of belief from the leaders of some party (or they do not) and vote according the best of the individual's beliefs.

      • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 10:33
        +1

        Mate, reading your comments it's looking like you don't have a great idea of how politics work.

        Lemme guess, you're subscribed to Ch7, Ch9, SkyNews and that's why you can't see any ALP policies broadcast.

        Australia has THE most concentrated media landscape in the world; a media that is openly hostile to the ALP.

        Jump on Mr Albanese's YT channel. He has plenty of great videos there

        • USER DC on 31/03/2022 - 23:46
          -2

          I dont think its hard in modern day for "Mr Albanese's" or any other Labor leader to promote themselves at a National News channel,
          7news, 9news, ABC News, SkyNews are decent Australian News Channels, and so are some small journalists like rebel news etc. I don't see them their, so I'd say I don't see them advertising themselves as strongly as current party.
          No People don't bother generally bother changing their platform of sources, unless e.g. you are a heroic trump fan, who follows every Trump move.

          • idonotknowwhy on 01/04/2022 - 10:32
            +2

            @USER DC: Even I'm starting to think you're just a troll now…

          • ThithLord on 01/04/2022 - 12:03
            +2

            @USER DC: Ah, yes.

            Ch7 - owned by Kerry Stokes who is heavily invested in fossil fuels. He surely doesn't have an axe to grind when it comes to Labor, a party heavily focused on a green-tech revolution.
            Ch9 - chaired by ex-LNP Peter Costello. Need I say more?
            ABC News - hmmm who chairs the ABC? Ita Buttrose - ex-Murdoch hack. A lot of the ABC board are ex-Murdoch hacks
            SkyNews - bro c'mon you're taking the p*ss now, surely?
            REBEL NEWS?!?! Are you 'king serious?

    • mskeggs on 31/03/2022 - 07:36
      +3

      I have voted for a number of parties and independents.
      With our system, you can number your preferences, so you could vote 1 for somebody, and vote 2 for a major party in case 1 doesn’t get elected.
      There are some people who always vote the same. I think that is declining, as the two big parties struggle to accommodate changing social values.

      For example, Labor is struggling to accommodate different views on trans people, as some people who have usually voted labor are religious. And the Liberals are having trouble with their reluctance to do anything about climate change, as many of their inner city wealthy voters actually care a lot about having a world to spend their wealth in!

    • idonotknowwhy on 31/03/2022 - 11:34

      Is it generally true that people usually vote for the same party their whole lives?

      Most people vote the same way all the time. Doesn't mean you have to though :)

      Or do people change all the time?

      Some people do change. (If they didn't we'd have the same party every election).

  • USER DC on 30/03/2022 - 23:52
    -7

    The real question is what the heck has Labor offered in national policies ?

    To my knowledge nothing so far, with Liberal at very least I am getting a relief on hiked up fuel prices for 6 months,(Which I am definitely going to be seeing) with labor probably wont even get that. Labor's Treasurer instead of supporting relief, disagrees with it, and seems to me he wants to bring fuel excise back on full asap. Liberal is same government who caused massive NBN cost blunder to tax payers. Liberal is also same government who couldn't stick to 1 leader for a decent time, instead they rolled over Tony Abott, Malcom Turnbell, (then speculation of Josh Frydenberg becoming next PM) but it ended up being Sco Mo. They also failed to deliver the covid payment properly (aka no requirement for businesses who made profit (even for making fake assumptions of loosing cash during covid times) e.g. famous Gerry Harvey, and other sc_ms, who took all tax payer's payment and made millions of profit.) Liberal (national) government is also same government who wanted whole Australia open during pandemic asap as a united country (instead of state governments which wanted their own preferences).

    Labor generally keeps saying wages not growing etc, I can agree that under liberal government my wage growth hasn't been that great compared to inflation, but I didn't see labor's national gov in power either. Who knows if they will actually deliver wage growth, a promise is JUST A MERE PROMISE not a legally binding contract. Labor will also be weak on Australian defense, One doesn't need a better example than UKARINE, on how important having excellent defense system is.
    I think Labor is okay in state level but i dont think they are good enough manage a whole federation. But may be Public is too fed up with Liberal and want a change now. At the end of the day if labor wants to win they need to get public into belief into that labor would be better for Australia than Liberal (by what No relief ?).

    Your 87K lifestyle is a lot different than mine, i make less than half of that. Cost of living is a big concern for me. Whoever's policy suits better to you that's whom you should vote.

    • p1 ama on 31/03/2022 - 00:21
      +13

      To my knowledge nothing so far, with Liberal at very least I am getting a relief on hiked up fuel prices for 6 months,(Which I am definitely going to be seeing)

      It's 22c per L, if you fill up, say, 30L per week then you're saving $6.60 per week. Also just for 6 months. Let's be real, this is nothing more than a quick ploy to buy votes in a way that's not really even going to help people.

      If you had a government who is actually responsible and forward thinking, the answer would be to invest in infrastructure, particularly mass transit so that people can get around more easily and are less dependent on cars. Even if you are committed to driving, less people on the road is means less traffic for you too.

      • USER DC on 31/03/2022 - 00:45
        -4

        ploy to buy votes

        With ALP i am not even seeing that, (aka I dont hear them promoting any decent reason- (biggest being cost of living) on why I should hand my vote to them)

        and I dont drive much, sure $6 or something only discount for me, BUT also wont inflate my grocerry's delivery cost price paid by supermarkets etc. (and sure enough for them fuel saving would be a lot more than $6). There's a famous saying, If oil goes up, everything else will go up in price too (because of increased transportation cost).

        • SBOB on 31/03/2022 - 06:21
          +12

          With ALP i am not even seeing that

          Because the budget reply, done by the opposition, hasn't been done yet.

          The opposition doesn't come out and announce policy or federal budget proposals prior to the actual budget release.

          Noting also that the actual election campaign hasn't started yet.

          But clearly the coalition's 6mth $ petrol excise reduction vote buying ploy is working, based on your post.

        • mskeggs on 31/03/2022 - 07:40
          +10

          The liberals aren’t reducing the price of oil, they are collecting a little less fuel tax.
          They will need to get that money from you somewhere else.

        • p1 ama on 31/03/2022 - 09:23
          +7

          With ALP i am not even seeing that, (aka I dont hear them promoting any decent reason- (biggest being cost of living) on why I should hand my vote to them)

          The election campaign has not even started yet and the ALP have not even done their budget reply.

          If you want examples of what the ALP has done, look at the lasting legacy from the last time they were in power (Rudd/Gillard) - NBN, school funding reform, NDIS, stimulus during the 2007 global recession that saved Australia's economy, just to name a few things. That's not even getting into things that you use on a regular basis, e.g. Medicare, that were implemented by ALP governments.

          and I dont drive much, sure $6 or something only discount for me

          The fact that you've not even bothered to calculate how much the savings for you is, but you're already tooting the policy just seems a bit silly to me, don't you think?

          • USER DC on 31/03/2022 - 11:14
            -1

            @p1 ama: If you want to pay more for groceries go ahead pay $5 for 2 L milk, no one is stopping you.
            But increased fuel cost will eventually lead to higher grocery prices (due to simple issue of transportation of goods and supplies). I dont feel comfortable with earnings I have to be spending any more $$ on basic necessities of life (i.e. Food, water, rent etc). Trucks don't consume mere 30L of diesel, a lot lot more than that.

          • USER DC on 31/03/2022 - 11:19

            @p1 ama:

            The election campaign has not even started yet

            That's the problem right there, what is stopping them to start promoting themselves ? Nothing. On other hand Liberal are already promoting themselves.
            If Labor wants to win they need to promote themselves (which they are not doing), elections are not even that far away (literally months away) , and Labor's

            The election campaign has not even started yet

            just shows you how weak their promotion is. If they cannot advertise themselves no one will buy them power.

            • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 11:34
              +2

              @USER DC:

              That's the problem right there, what is stopping them to start promoting themselves ? Nothing.

              lol where are they to promote themselves?

              Ch9 - chaired by ex-LNP treasurer Peter Costello. Axe to grind? Hmmmmmm
              Ch7 - Kerry Stokes. Heavily invested in Fossil Fuel industries. Axe to grind against Labor? Hmmmmm
              ABC - chaired by ex-Murdoch hack, Ita Buttrose. Majority of the ABC board are ex-Murdoch hacks. ABC are openly hostile to Labor.
              SkyNews - well, they're just bastions of unbiased reporting, aren't they?

            • p1 ama on 31/03/2022 - 11:35
              +6

              @USER DC: What you're saying doesn't make much sense to me though:

              If you want to pay more for groceries go ahead pay $5 for 2 L milk, no one is stopping you.

              Except 2L of milk is not $5. Of the price of milk, a small portion of that is actually the cost of transportation, of which a small portion is fuel. The impact of the fuel excise on 2L of milk will be probably a few cents at max. And in any case, it's a policy change that only lasts for 6 months.

              But increased fuel cost will eventually lead to higher grocery prices (due to simple issue of transportation of goods and supplies). I dont feel comfortable with earnings I have to be spending any more $$ on basic necessities of life (i.e. Food, water, rent etc).

              I used to consult in the supply chain management sector, again this doesn't add up. Cost of transportation is something like 30% of the cost of most groceries, of that 30% cost of transportation, around 20% is fuel (the other costs are staffing, warehousing, maintenance,… etc.), and of that, the fuel excise will reduce the fuel cost by around 10% (22c on $2, there abouts).

              So multiplying it all together, 0.3 * 0.2 * 0.1 = 0.006, i.e. 0.6%. Therefore, your $3 bottle of milk will cost 0.006 * 3 = $0.018 less (i.e. around 2 cents). That's the impact of the cut in fuel excise.

              Even if this savings is consistent across your entire grocery bill, say $100 per week, you're saying $0.60 per week, so $15.60 across the entire 6 months of the fuel excise cut. That's what you're tooting here, a savings of $15.60 across 6 months.

              I'm not making a judgement about how important that $15.60 is to you, my only point is that if it is that important, there are other government policies that you should be doing your due dilligence on.

              That's the problem right there, what is stopping them to start promoting themselves ? Nothing. On other hand Liberal are already promoting themselves.

              I agree that ALP needs to start promoting their agenda, but that doesn't change the facts about the LNP's policies and tactics.

            • idonotknowwhy on 31/03/2022 - 11:41
              +4

              @USER DC:

              If Labor wants to win they need to promote themselves (which they are not doing)

              They are trying, but you don't see it as much because the mainstream media is pro lnp:

              Murdoch - The most right-wing pro-lnp of the bunch.
              Nine/Fairfax - owned by a former liberal treasurer.
              ABC News - Funded by the government, board of directors stacked with ex-liberals. Pays lip service to left-wing social issues but they're always very tough on ALP and fondling the LNP in interviews.

              You said you're on less than 87k / year right? You'd really be doing yourself a disservice if you put LNP above ALP on your voting card.

              • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 11:51
                +2

                @idonotknowwhy:

                ABC News - Funded by the government, board of directors stacked with ex-liberals. Pays lip service to left-wing social issues but they're always very tough on ALP and fondling the LNP in interviews.

                This cannot be emphasised enough.

      • brendanm on 31/03/2022 - 11:42
        +1

        If you had a government who is actually responsible and forward thinking

        This would be great. The problem is, that they are all only worried about being reelected. Long term projects don't look good. It's ridiculous.

        • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 12:08
          +2

          No one, on earth, stands to gain more from renewable energies/green tech revolution than Australia. The head of Germany's energy policy (who was the mastermind of one of the most rapid and successful transition to green energy in the world) laments that the absolute worst spot in Australia to generate Green energy (off the coast somewhere in Tasmania) is far, far better than even the top location in Germany to generate renewable energy.

          Labor have firmly got this in their pipelines. Firmly.

      • Nebargains on 01/04/2022 - 07:39

        If you had a government who is actually responsible and forward thinking, the answer would be to invest in infrastructure, particularly mass transit so that people can get around more easily and are less dependent on cars

        I agree, but the problem is such projects can take decades

    • SBOB on 31/03/2022 - 10:24
      +1

      Liberal is same government who caused massive NBN cost blunder to tax payers. Liberal is also same government who couldn't stick to 1 leader for a decent time, instead they rolled over Tony Abott, Malcom Turnbell, (then speculation of Josh Frydenberg becoming next PM) but it ended up being Sco Mo. They also failed to deliver the covid payment properly (aka no requirement for businesses who made profit (even for making fake assumptions of loosing cash during covid times) e.g. famous Gerry Harvey, and other sc_ms, who took all tax payer's payment and made millions of profit.)

      And thats only some of their high quality government decisions/actions over recent times….
      Vote # 1 Liberal…
      "why would you want a change of gov when this one is doing so well" - practically a quote from Josh Frydenberg during his speech

      • USER DC on 31/03/2022 - 11:15

        Yes that is the case, to show i am not like one sided person, try to be unbiased where ever possible. But i am saying that when labor aren't even promoting themselves, and liberal actually doing stuff. It is very clear.

    • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 10:40
      +6

      I think Labor is okay in state level but i dont think they are good enough manage a whole federation.

      Labor are the only party to deliver the worlds best performing economy, and during the GFC to boot.

      We have slid downwards ever since the LNP have taken the helm, as well as slid downwards on the world corruption index. Australia records its worst ever score on anti-corruption index after decline to match Hungary’s

      Your indifference is laughable.

  • nofate on 31/03/2022 - 06:06
    +3

    Welcome and please remember, to make your vote really count, Australia has preferential voting.

  • RichardRides on 31/03/2022 - 07:54
    +6

    Kudos to everyone who has posted on this thread. I came expecting partisan ideology, but all the comments seem balanced and rationale. Imagine if parliament was so respectful and constructive!

    One thing we’re seeing in this current election campaign is the ALP trying to make themselves a small target. In the last federal election ScoMo was on the nose and the polls had the ALP clear leaders. So the ALP made some bold policy statements about what they’d do if they win government. Excellent, as voters we get to see what we’re voting for! Except that the LNP used that to make the election about the ALP policies - all the LNP media was “don’t vote for them”, rather than “here’s what we’ll do, vote for us”. They even made up policies that they attributed to the ALP (the retiree tax???).

    So there was very little debate about LNP policy, just a lot about how bad were the ALP’s (bold) policies.

    And it worked. ScoMo was re-elected.

    So this time round, the ALP has done a fair bit of “we agree” in the contentious areas (eg mining jobs) and has (so far) been pretty quiet in advancing anything you could call ALP policy. Puff pieces on 60 Minutes do not equal policy.

    What I’m seeing, is a lot of the policy debate is being driven by the Independents. I’m in one of the electorates with a “Voices of” candidate and she’s outstanding. Talks my language and has policy positions on things I care about (climate, federal ICAC in particular). The ALP and LNP both have positions on these policy areas, but it’s the independents who are making the most noise.

  • rektrading on 31/03/2022 - 07:58
    -1

    All govs are the same.

    Their solution will be to MMT their way out of the paper bag.

    Just make sure that you choose wisely before it happens.

  • morse on 31/03/2022 - 08:49
    +3

    Neither government is going to have much chance of managing inflation or paying down the astronomical debt.

    I don’t mind a bit of debt, it was kind of necessary to accrue some in the pandemic but some of the spending was just ridiculous e.g. jobkeeper for businesses that’s revenue stayed the same or actually grew (I don’t believe most of this has been paid back), and the home builder grant when construction had plenty of work and it just inflated prices further.

    The other one that gets me is the 80% subsidy for people who have 2 or more kids in childcare. I do think there should be a greater subsidy for those with two kids, but I think it should only mean they pay the same as if they had 1 kid. Basically I’d be paying less in total now if I had two kids rather than one. I overheard one mum in a coffee shop telling her friend to put her kid in daycare more “it’s so good, It’s designed to get women back in the workforce, but I’m not going to do that, it’s just more time for me”. It also counts for after school care, so if one is in long daycare you will save thousands by starting the older kid in after school care, people are putting their kids in after school care just to save money, not because they need it. Don’t get me wrong I think it’s amazing for the parents, but seems like it’s going to be really expensive for taxpayers and potentially too generous and be exploited. It’s the most unusual Liberal government this time round, they are just throwing money around.

    Either way your tax will be similar. Usually I’d say (if you’re only thinking of yourself) if you’re a low income earner you’re better off voting Labor (for wage growth, welfare), if you have investment properties etc vote Liberal. This time round it’s a bit of an unknown. There’s also other issues to consider like immigration policy, environment, human rights etc.

    • duluxe2000 on 31/03/2022 - 15:33
      +1

      This is also my concern. Neither of the parties want to address the elephant in the room which is debt and high inflation, reliance on China trade and not self sufficient, future economy outlook … the transition from resource based economy.

      Libs used to be known for being better economy manager. But the way Libs spending cash right now I feel it's rather irresponsible.

      After the pandemic, Russia-Ukrain war, what's next ? China - Taiwan? This is going to be a difficult time and I don't see Labor policy is going to help. For example, many Euro govs have to revisit the green transition because of the disruption from the Russia. Is it a right time for a left wing gov I wonder?

  • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 10:23
    +4

    OP, please just read this: Australia’s economy has deteriorated under the Coalition

    That was from 2019! It's gotten much, much worse since then. We're forecasted to hit $1.1T debt by 2025 thanks to the LNP and we have literally nothing to show for it.

    • idonotknowwhy on 31/03/2022 - 11:44
      +2

      Yeah, they racked up a huge debt well before the pandemic started. I hate that the media refer to our huge national debt as the pandemic debt.

      • ThithLord on 31/03/2022 - 11:47
        +2

        Every single media organisation reports it as the COVID Debt. Channel 9, ofc (chaired by Costello), Channel 7 (owned by Kerry Stokes who has a lot to lose if ALP get in), ABC (chaired by ex-Murdoch hack Ita Buttrose).

        It's just depressing.

        At least with ALP's debt from the GFC stimulus we had many, many tangible assets generated from it.

  • Muzzybee on 31/03/2022 - 10:33
    -2

    Income tax is the biggest scam. Having my hard earned money stolen every week with no idea where it's going and being used for is infuriating to say the least

    • morse on 31/03/2022 - 11:44
      +4

      no idea where it's going and being used

      For sure some is wasted - but also, schools, hospitals, roads, defence, childcare, aged care, broadcasting, business subsidies/grants, welfare (aged, disability pension, newstart) tertiary education, research. It's actually pretty clear where it goes, the budget is publicly available and all government organisations do annual reports. Not saying all of it is spent wisely, but it's relatively transparent. Chances are you use some of these services, have in the past or will in the future.

      • Muzzybee on 31/03/2022 - 12:25
        -1

        "Federal income tax was first introduced in 1915, in order to help fund Australia's war effort in the First World War. Between 1915 and 1942"

        Crazy to think we didn't have any schools, hospitals, roads, defence, childcare, research before 1915

        • worrierwan on 31/03/2022 - 14:02
          +6

          There was still tax, it was just collected by the states instead of the Federal Government. Maybe take a read of a couple more lines of the source you just quoted?
          Cherry picking at its finest

      • Yotta00 on 02/04/2022 - 12:26

        I think it's kind of surreal. That landholders pay a one time tax on all these things and the value of their land increases directly related to these services. Yet poor to rich who earn a wage and businesses that pay taxes has subside the value of land for landlords.

        I wish I can pay one time tax at the start of my career and start telling young people to stop eating avo toast.

        Australia! the nation of rent seekers.

        • morse on 02/04/2022 - 12:30

          I dunno about that, if the land owner makes money off the land they pay tax eg from rental income. If they land bank to sell later they will pay capital gains when they sell unless it’s their PPOR. Only thing that disrupts that is negative gearing, which yes, is controversial.

        • duchy on 06/04/2022 - 11:06

          Ever heard of land tax? Every state has one.

    • Ashless on 31/03/2022 - 12:34
      +3

      I get a notice with my refund each year that shows me how my tax was allocated.

      https://www.ato.gov.au/Individuals/Your-tax-return/Check-the…

      • Muzzybee on 31/03/2022 - 12:35
        -5

        And you're silly enough to believe it. I didn't see any big politicans salaries on that list or sports rorts

        • worrierwan on 31/03/2022 - 14:04
          +4

          Thats because those expenses dont make a material amount of Australia's expenses. If you want to see politician's salaries, it is all publicly available information that you can scrutinise. Do some research instead of being so ignorant

        • jacross on 31/03/2022 - 19:19

          Politician salaries come under 'General Public Services'.

          Sports rorts likely come under 'Recreation and Culture'.

          Category breakdowns are provided by a link on the linked page. If you want more detail that is available. It's called the 'budget papers'.

        • StalkingIbis on 01/04/2022 - 20:20

          Hey Muzzybee, what line of work are you in?

    • pulpfiction on 31/03/2022 - 14:44
      +1

      There is always tax. If it's not income tax, they find it another way.

      Without tax, the structures supporting your job will fail (along with pretty much everything else which supports your standard of living). So you can have tax on your income or no income tax free. Which is better?

      Tax is good. Yes, would be better if the gov managed more efficiently, but that's not an issue with tax itself.

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