No, Medicare Should NOT Cover Dental Work

SlavOz on 28/03/2022 - 19:07
Last edited 28/03/2022 - 19:08

This is always a hot topic in Australia. We have such generous healthcare yet people still complain that they have to pay out of pocket for dental work.

While the prospect of having perfect teeth for "free" sounds appealing on paper, everyone seems to ignore the knock-on effects:

  • dentists will actually become more expensive as they'd no longer have any reason to keep their prices low

  • the wait times will be increased because more people will be lining up for their free whitening or to fix a lifetime of poor oral hygiene

  • the quality of care will inevitably decrease as more patients need to be served.

This is the exact same thing we see in hospitals. Nobody goes to the dentist for a mild toothache or because their child is teething. But people willfully clog up the ER thinking they're going to die because of a bad pimple because they know it doesn't cost them anything.

So in the end, the service costs more AND that cost is incurred more often as more people use the service.

Who pays for all that? It comes straight out of your taxes. So you're left paying MORE for an inferior service. It's not just poor economic reasoning, it's a sin of Ozbargain.

Health & Beauty Dental Medicare

Comments

          • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 29/03/2022 - 15:12
            +2

            @SlavOz: Four months after her diagnosis, Shamblaw headed to Buffalo, New York, for treatment. But it was too late. She died

            Um. lol. That doesn't exactly assist you there.

            • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 17:53
              -1

              @Typical16-bitEnjoyer: When did I ever claim that nobody can die in the US?

              The article is about patients in Canada (a country with a healthcare system very similar to ours) having to travel to the US for treatment because the wait times are much lower and the clinics are much better equipped.

              • CheapCoffee on 29/03/2022 - 20:10

                @SlavOz: Yeah, I'm not surprised to hear that. US absolutely definitely offers the best healthcare that is available to the human race. They are the forefront of research and experimental procedures and their top doctors have more experience in specific procedures. Some of the procedures that are being done in US is absolutely bonkers which is the reason why people who have the money will travel to US for certain things.

                But we must not conflate between best available healthcare and overall quality of health care to the majority of the public.

                Most medical journals and institutions who oversees this in US and around the world agree that US offers one of the worst healthcare to the general public despite offering the cutting edge of the human medicine as a scientific discipline.

                This is the outcome of the capitalist approach to medical services. You get great outcomes due to the natural competition in terms of its advancement, but terrible outcomes for anyone who are not able to afford it. What actually happens is that good doctors around the world tend go to US for their residency training and beyond and go back to their respective countries.

                Just to touch on wait times, they are higher (in Canada, UK, Australia) vs US purely because the 'system' defines how things should be prioritised based on their medical needs rather than the money. It's also one of the reasons we have a smaller but thriving private medical system that will allow people to skip the queue depending how desperate they are (eg. cruciate ligament injury for an office worker vs cruciate ligament injury for a footballer). If you are willing to pay the money for it, you can skip the queue in Australia as well.

      • p1 ama on 29/03/2022 - 22:28
        +2

        Ask yourself why wealthy people with serious health problems always travel to America to seek treatment. Nobody living abroad says "I'll travel to Australia to get the opinion of their top doctors!" Nobody gives a shit about our healthcare system because it's extremely average. Top marks for being accessible, but that doesn't make it good.

        "Extremely average" and "accessible" is exactly what you want a healthcare system to be.

        The point of a healthcare system is not to treat some rare, complicated, obtuse illness that affects 1 in 1,000,000 people, it is to provide generalised care that is applicable to the broadest base of people. Healthcare is not playing superhero, it is about providing cost effective, and efficient care in such a way that minimises disruption to society and peoples' lives.

  • BuyoTheCat on 29/03/2022 - 14:23
    +5

    No teeth = no obese people = happy slavoz

    • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 21:14
      -1

      Pretty sure no obese people in the world would make everyone happy. Medicare costs would go down, we'd pay less tax, and hospitals would run much smoother.

      But we're not allowed to mention that because it's insensitive to blame people for their medical choices. Unless it's regarding the vaccine and the .000X% marginal increase that you MIGHT end up sick along with all the other vaccinated patients. In that case, shame away, who needs decency!

      • p1 ama on 29/03/2022 - 22:30

        But we're not allowed to mention that because it's insensitive to blame people for their medical choices.

        To be honest, I don't get this whole victim complex.

        People make fun of fat people all the time - everyone in school bullies the fat kid, jokes are made at the expense of fat people, we literally associate weight with health. I don't get why you would feel that "we're not allowed to mention" this.

        • SlavOz on 31/03/2022 - 19:29
          -3

          But it's not culturally or politically appropriate to do so. Tell someone at work they're fat (don't even make fun of them - just say they're fat, which is factually true) and you'll probably get a knock from HR.

          Yet we've been trained and encouraged and completely demonise, bash, and publicly scorn the tiny minority of unvaccinated people for some insignificant risk factor to their health.

          It's the madness of crowds in full force.

      • GrueHunter on 31/03/2022 - 19:25

        Kinda like how you're apparently struggling with wage stagnation and inflation because of your poor choices?

  • RocketSwitch on 29/03/2022 - 14:47

    Would you rather the government MPs spend our tax money on their holidays, jets, limousine rides?

    Anyway, Medicare should be for things that are needed, not a nice to have.

    Similar to why we have laws, to protect the community from themselves. Likewise, with health, you can't just say, oh they should have looked after themselves. That doesn't work in a democratic society (well, it could have if the government focused on heart health, awareness of cancer and general health information). Taxes are there to help you, help the community and ensure you live a life that has all it needs. But no, the government would rather spend 100% of all its money getting kids and everyone on a subscription to be vaccinated for COVID, but allow smokes, and half our supermarket's rotten unhealthy foods region supreme with ads that focus on ruining your health!

    I'm hating this idea thanks to COVID that people have been brainwashed to exclude people. That's not a democratic society. If you need a hospital bed, that person GETS a hospital bed. YOU do not refuse treatment for anyone. Likewise, with the dentist, it's bloody expensive!

    If the government can spend $5b for vaccines and send instant resources to Ukraine (they couldn't even look after people affected by the floods), they sure as hell can spend money on those who couldn't afford to look after their teeth, our broken 000 service, hospitals and ensuring our current health care workers are not smashed to the brink for the last decade. I know, I read the emails, know people working in there. Especially now with 1/4 of staff now gone 'due to mandates'.

    • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 14:55
      -3

      Never forget that 100% of people saying we need free unconditional healthcare because it makes society better were cheering for unvaccinated people to be excluded from Medicare.

      The fact that they still think people take them seriously is somewhere between funny and funnier. These people can't even conjure a single consistent thought that isn't passed down to them by the media.

      • Trance N Dance on 29/03/2022 - 14:57
        +2

        I can absolutely say that you're wrong on that one. I agree that we should have free unconditional basic healthcare and disagree wholeheartedly that unvaccinated people should be excluded from Medicare.

      • RocketSwitch on 29/03/2022 - 15:09
        +1

        I remember that. I will never forget those people who said we should exclude the unvaccinated from Medicare. It actually makes me SICK to think people out there have a right to dictate the level of care someone should take due to them making a medical decision for themselves.

        I can't tell you how disgusted I am to this day. Those people make me sick.

        For someone who is for everyone to be included in everything, it ripped at the core for me, and those who said that shouldn't be a part of a democratic society! I can't think of anything lower than someone saying to another human in need, that you do not deserve to be cared for!

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 29/03/2022 - 15:14

        100%

        minus the 2 peeps above, and myself, not really 100% is it. SlavOz statistics at work yet again!

  • mini2 on 29/03/2022 - 14:57

    There are dental hospitals around the place for people on welfare, take this for example:
    https://www.wslhd.health.nsw.gov.au/Oral-Health

    I'm sure the wait times are gonna suck but at least there's the safety net for those who aren't as fortunate.

    • pandadude on 29/03/2022 - 16:04

      The current wait time in WA Public Dental is 3 years for a general check-up. I just spoke to them yesterday.

      You need to have a concession card and the subsidy can be from 50% to 75% up to a limit.

      Emergency dental is still available. Saying that due to most of the restriction in WA most of the time they will just ask you to go to the office and get the emergency dental voucher to go see a private dentist.

      • mini2 on 29/03/2022 - 16:32

        I knew the wait time gonna suck but wasn't expecting it to be 3 years. So there's the safety net; it exists but it's less than optimal.

        • pandadude on 29/03/2022 - 17:08

          Yes and no. It just depends on funding and the number of people on the wait list.

          Once you are at the front of the queue but the WA Public Dental Clinic is unable to provide you a service because it is full. They do provide you with an authorisation letter to go to a private clinic for the same price. There are a lot of clinic on that list.

          Out of the 5 years my dad been on the system he only went into the WA Public Dental Clinic once.

          Were the system is in trouble is you must register at an individual WA Public Dental Clinic. Some clinic might be busier than others. I mean we have 3 clinic within 30 minutes.

        • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 17:56

          So, imagine if the entire dental system in Australia became the safety net (ie Medicare funded).

          Pretty obvious to conclude that wait times will increase massively.

          • Trance N Dance on 29/03/2022 - 18:29

            @SlavOz: Medicare funded doesn't mean the system will only be provided by state run dental clinics.
            It would mean patients can claim a rebate against services provided by any dentist. This would also include all those who are currently seeing a dentist and paying via health funds. If anything, it might actually alleviate pressure on state run clinics because now those patients can see any dentist instead of just the ones at the clinic (which are understaffed) or only approved private dentists that accept government vouchers.

  • BuyoTheCat on 29/03/2022 - 15:24
    -3

    Dentistry is a scam. If you are not old, not overweight and have good immune system, your teeth till take care of itself. You do not even need to brush.
    Toothbrushes are also scams

    • Trance N Dance on 29/03/2022 - 16:53

      Please don't spread this bullshit.

  • DrScavenger on 29/03/2022 - 16:03

    Are you a dentist?

  • Niko123456 on 29/03/2022 - 16:07
    -2

    I agree. Most dentistry is purely cosmetic.

    We should just train GPs to be able to diagnose basic dental issues and then making a medically necessary referral (like when someone needs a filling).

    This is unlike the current system where the dentist performs a bunch of medically unnecessary work just because $$$.

    • May4th on 29/03/2022 - 16:53

      We should just train GPs to be able to diagnose basic dental issues

      You mean, train GPs to be…dentists?

      • Niko123456 on 29/03/2022 - 20:09

        No, they don't have to know how to do do the filling (or the cleaning and other cosmetics).

        But they would be able to recognise when something might actually require an intervention.

        Quite frankly the amount of dentists that pull wisdom teeth for no reason is pretty shocking…those are teeth people might actually need later in life.

        Basically I'm firmly if the belief that dentists do all sorts of dodgy and unnecessary work for their own gain and because no one will call them out on it.

        • mrfuku on 29/03/2022 - 23:01

          Haha mate you have no idea how hard it is to take some teeth out, let alone wisdom teeth… There's far more relaxing procedures dentists could be doing rather than extractions on wisdom teeth.

          99% of the population probably won't miss their wisdom teeth being there, and the people who need them later in life in most cases have neglected their other chewing teeth to need a extra set….

          The people who have a real need for them are very rare

    • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 18:00

      Actually, most dentists I've been to request very few tests compared your average specialist. You go to the ER for a sore tummy and you'll get a blood test, X-ray, ultrasound, and maybe even an MRI. Pretty obvious that there's a lot of money-pumping going on there too.

      My dentists checks my mouth, takes an X-ray, and gets on with it. If it was publicly funded, I'd probably have to book in advance for that X-ray, then come back a few months later to discuss the results, and then book again to get the work done. No thanks.

      • holdenmg on 29/03/2022 - 18:07
        +2

        Maybe your Dentist just wants you gone…

        Yeah, let's go with that.

        • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 18:11

          Sounds like a good dentist to me.

          If I had to keep coming back, they'd be pretty bad at their job.

  • May4th on 29/03/2022 - 16:52

    There are limited access to 'free' dental care thtough public dental clinics, you get dental vouchers for work done if you have a healthcare card / pension card.

  • random12 on 29/03/2022 - 17:40

    Clive Palmer is at work.

    You read the post, and it just reminds you of all the stupid United Australia Party ads that have been playing recently.

    Bunch of mindless drones at a rally with 'FREEDUMB - FREEDUMB - FREEDUMB' signs.

    Lets say we really are screwed, and the debt will take 200 years to repay. How does electing some fat billionaire change anything? We are screwed either way, so might as well just relax and not stress.

    • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 18:05
      -2

      There was a time when the left used to fight for freedom. Their tagline was "I don't agree with what you say, but I'll fight to the death for your right to say it".

      Now they've been brainwashed into thinking anyone who values freedom, this precious commodity that humans have fought millennia to attain, is suddenly not that important.

      It's a true mark of privilige when you don't have to fear losing your rights, alas most people in the world have not been as lucky as you. Even the average Australian born abroad would have terrible memories of living in an unfree country, fighting tooth and nail to get it back.

      Never take for granted the fact that there are people who want to fight for freedom on your behalf. Most of us have not been that lucky.

      • Vote for Pedro on 29/03/2022 - 18:13
        +1

        Tell us about the freedoms you dont have that aren’t in some way connected to living in a functioning society.

        What is it you want specifically that you don’t have?

        • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 18:16
          -4

          The guarantee that my human rights - such as the right to travel, work, or make autonomous medical choices - will never be impeded on again. Australia is one of the only developed democracies without a Bill of Rights so that would be a good start.

          In terms of the current climate, I want to be able to travel back home to see my family without the Australian government stopping me and asking for my medical records, of for my brethren in Victoria or WA to be able to go to the gym without undue discrimination based on their vax status.

          The fact that you don't even know about the lack of freedoms in your society is quite troubling. When oppression is all you know, it starts to feel normal.

          • Vote for Pedro on 29/03/2022 - 19:40
            +6

            @SlavOz: how out of touch can you be. We’ve all suffered because of this pandemic but we have all as a society, as a community done what has had to be done. We stayed home, we struggled with work, we put up with people disrespecting the rules that kept us safe.

            As a community, we got vaccinated not because we care about ourselves or our self interest, but we care about each other and our most vulnerable.

            There remains a small (tiny) self interested vocal minority that care not about anyone other than themselves. And thats a shame. A sad indictment of parts of our community.

            I for one am happy my workplace has implemented a vaccine mandate. Those who don’t share our organisation’s values (or care about each other’s well-being) can choose an employer that share’s their values. You have a choice.

            • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 20:45
              -8

              @Vote for Pedro: lol still playing "I got vaccinated because I'm such a good person" card. You're literally spreading misinformation by still pushing this debunked hogwash. The vaccine doesn't keep anyone else safe. Not sure if you've noticed but there are like 100,000 people a day catching the virus in Australia. Your vaccination makes no difference at all to anyone but your own ego.

              It's actually the fully vaxxed that are responsible for spreading 95% of cases. My decision not to get vaccinated makes me no more likely to spread the virus than you are. Get off your high horse and step down into the real world. The science has been done and you lost.

              Have fun with 17th booster.

              • Vote for Pedro on 29/03/2022 - 21:42
                +1

                @SlavOz: I will. Thanks. I believe in vaccines and more importantly, science. I know when there’s smarter people than me in the field.

                You have no idea what oppression is and what it’s truely like to live under a regime that takes away your freedoms.

                How is it that 95% of the people are sheep and have been brainwashed but the 5% know all the science and the ‘truth’?

                Do you ever look around at the people that surround you and your views and think ‘oh geez, maybe, just maybe I might be wrong’

                • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 11:46
                  -4

                  @Vote for Pedro: You're right, I was lucky enough to be born during a time when oppression was just starting to end in my home country. I was shielded from the worst of it, but the effects and memories of it still remain in my community, and the family members that I lost to this oppression remain underground.

                  That being said, I've now lived through a government that took away my human rights (and continues to do so), so you're objectively wrong. Human rights are rights, and taking them away is taking them away, regardless of how you spin it.

                  People like you conveniently ignore that we had unprecedented and frankly batshit crazy mandates that forced everyone to get vaccinated. 95% of people are not science believers….they're just regular folk who didn't want to lose their jobs or freedoms. If you're so confident in the vaccine and how smart everyone is, then you wouldn't cheer for mandates because people would wilfully choose to get vaxxed. But you know that's a lie. Take out mandates and very few people are going to bother getting vaccinated. We're already seeing this booster uptake. The government is throwing out unused vaccines because nobody wants them.

                  Unless you want to renew your subscription every few months, your vaccine was useless. It's not doing anything for you or other people at this point. That's the real science, and this has been admitted by Pfizer themselves. You are no better or 'cleaner' than the rest of us. The only difference between you and I is that one of us can experience bad side effects from an untested drug, and the other cannot.

                  • Vote for Pedro on 30/03/2022 - 11:48
                    +1

                    @SlavOz: Ahhh the ‘untested’ myth surfaces. Absolute fake news.

                  • SBOB on 30/03/2022 - 16:56

                    @SlavOz:

                    I was lucky enough to be born during a time when oppression was just starting to end in my home country. I was shielded from the worst of it, but the effects and memories of it still remain in my community, and the family members that I lost to this oppression remain underground.
                    That being said, I've now lived through a government that took away my human rights

                    I'm sure your ancestors and others in your home country are somewhat offended by your equal comparison between actual oppression, and the restrictions which were in place during a world wide pandemic

                    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 17:43
                      -2

                      @SBOB: In both cases, human rights were trampled. There's no degree to which you can compare how bad one is from the other. You're either pregnant or you're not. You can't be "a little bit pregnant". You're also either a government that respect human rights or you're not. There's no midpoint to rest on. Human rights are, by definition, a fixed and inherent concept. Once you violate one, you are no less likely to violate others. I know this may seem far-fetched to you but bear in mind that Australia's human rights record even before the pandemic was quite shitty to begin with.

                      It begs the question how many times you can be abused until you decide to stand up for yourself. Some of us made that decision a long time ago.

                      Particularly because the tactics used by the Australian government were textbook similar to those used by Slavic warmongers.

                      • SydStrand on 31/03/2022 - 09:14
                        +3

                        @SlavOz: What bullshit. Your rights to do, buy, or even say what you want, has never been unconditional. To protect the public, there are laws that restrict your 'freedom' to buy drugs or guns, to drive at 200kph through school zones, or shouting bomb in an airport. So you can take this make-believe 'line in the sand!' and shove it you know where, along with this sovereign citizen crap. The fact that you're equating actual communist repression with the fact that your anti-vaxx ass can't go to the gym, is beyond parody.

      • SBOB on 29/03/2022 - 19:11

        Now they've been brainwashed

        Said without any sense of self awareness on the source of information that re-enforces your views and beliefs.

      • smartazz104 on 30/03/2022 - 11:18

        There used to be a time that the right… ah who am I kidding, they’ve never been useful.

  • meumax on 29/03/2022 - 17:45

    Haven't commented in these forums in years. Good to see some things never change like SlavOz stiring up shit with controversial posts!

  • Vote for Pedro on 29/03/2022 - 18:11
    +1

    I for one think $100billion on submarines is well worth it, screw dental!

  • Ghost05 on 29/03/2022 - 18:41
    +3

    "dentists will actually become more expensive as they'd no longer have any reason to keep their prices low"…

    Dentists keep their prices low? Why do people go overseas to get dental work done if our dental work prices are so low?

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 11:48
      -1

      The majority of people get their dental work done locally. Dentists need to keep their prices semi-reasonable because they know people would just go overseas or not get the treatment if it was too expensive.

      You can claim their prices are too high but in the end most people are willing to pay them so you're wrong.

      • smartazz104 on 30/03/2022 - 21:52

        You can claim their prices are too high but in the end most people are willing to pay them so you're wrong.

        You can't refute an argument like that!

      • Ghost05 on 31/03/2022 - 15:27

        But a lot of people do indeed go overseas to get dental work done because its much cheaper.

        The majority of people only get the work done locally for many reasons, mainly because they have no other option at the time or don't know what's available. You say most people are willing to pay, but I would say most people are made to begrudgingly. People want to get cheaper work done overseas, but again don't for many reasons.

        Most people still buy stuff from Harvey Norman as that's what they know and they don't know there are cheaper options available. Same as dental work.

        • SlavOz on 31/03/2022 - 19:17
          -1

          Mate, if a root canal cost $10 everywhere, you'd still see people posting deals on Ozbargain for a $7 root canal

          Of course people want to spend as little money as possible or feel guilty for spending it. This is true for everything and it certainly doesn't mean prices are too high.

          End of the day, dental work is reasonably priced for most people in the economy. That could easily change if they raised their prices, which they would inevitably do if it became Medicare funded. In that case, millions of people would be getting dental treatment at an inflated price which would lower your discretionary income after taxes.

  • hasher22 on 29/03/2022 - 18:52

    I think some things in dental should be covered like a check up and x-ray and consultation, once per year if someone doesn't have private health. And maybe subsidised cleaning.

    Anything else no.

    • CheapCoffee on 29/03/2022 - 20:22

      Agreed.

      Although, dental extractions is probably one more thing that should be covered as an alternative to endodontic treatments. They are great to save the teeth, but I don't see why it should be covered when you can literally just pull it out to solve the problem altogether.

      If you want to save the teeth, the individiual should be responsible for paying for it, but there needs to be a way to remove a source of massive dental pain for people who cannot afford it as well (ie. dental extraction for non-cosmetic purposes)

      • mrfuku on 29/03/2022 - 23:05

        Subsiding extractions and not endodontics may end up sending more people down that pathway, could result in overall poorer outcomes for the public.

  • kaleidoscope on 29/03/2022 - 19:14

    the wait times will be increased because more people will be lining up for their free whitening or to fix a lifetime of poor oral hygiene

    As much as I want medicare to cover some aspects of dentist visit costs, the above makes me think it’s better off left as is because of the abuse of it.

    • CheapCoffee on 29/03/2022 - 20:17

      There is no way whitening will be covered under Medicare along with anything cosmetic. It will be quite restrictive for what it covers for similarly to optometry testing.

      No one intends to have poor oral hygiene because they want to, this is most likely going to be a small % of the population who currently cannot afford this. If the overall system becomes slower to to accomodate these people to seek preventative treatment before it becomes a dental emergency, I think I am all for it.

      • Tech5 on 29/03/2022 - 20:28
        +3

        Plenty of people have poor OH because they want too actually.

        I've seen plenty of excuses daily- too lazy to brush/floss, too lazy to come in for clean at least once yearly, soft drinks taste too good to give up. It is a lack of motivation that is the problem in many cases.

      • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 21:07

        If your teeth become bright yellow from years of poor hygiene and diet, you'll probably end up with severe decay to the point where you need replacements put in. Those replacements will essentially be like-new and give you a fully whitened smile on the taxpayer's dime.

        What you're saying is cosmetic procedures shouldn't be covered on their own, but if they happen to coincide with a medical procedure, well that's just good luck for the patient I guess. That's bullshit. Someone else who takes care of their teeth meticulously but has bad issues due to some underlying disease will be stuck with their rotten old yellow teeth while the lazy bums get rewarded as usual.

        No different to people who have to work hard just to maintain a healthy weight, yet those who let themselves go and become morbidly obese get free weight loss procedures as a shortcut.

        Some of the toxic attitudes in this sub show a clear sense of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility. If Ozbargain is at all representative of the Australian population then its not hard to see why. With so many lazy and fat people in this country of course they're all going to be loving the idea of free shortcuts to their health.

        • random12 on 29/03/2022 - 22:44
          +2

          What have you got against fat people?

          Clive Palmer is fat (and I guess his little dog Craig Kelly is too). You love United Australia Party.

        • Bullion78 on 30/03/2022 - 21:28

          Mate, you should know that its an exercise in futility trying to educate the "because science" types on this forum. You can take it to the bank that 99.9% of them have never read a science paper nor have any intention to read one. The truth is, they just trust consensus because its nice and easy and doesn't require them to illicit independent thought.

        • Diji on 31/03/2022 - 09:45

          Some of the toxic attitudes in this sub show a clear sense of entitlement and lack of personal responsibility.

          Correct me if I'm wrong but I'm pretty sure we're not in a submarine.

  • Thorn69 on 29/03/2022 - 20:52

    jeeez, what a way to go, medicare wait list ruined my teeth by the time i got to the dentist they had to be pulled rather than given the medical care needed to save them being on a pension i couldn't have afforded a regular dentist, medicare should cover regular checkups and almost all procedures apart from implants and the expensive ones but should cover them at a %instead it took me getting stranded overseas to get my teeth fixed and that's on a walk in basis…….Australia's medical system neeeds an enema and many many of the staff in management positions removed

    • Tech5 on 29/03/2022 - 21:15
      +3

      I doubt the waitlist ruined your teeth. You ruined your teeth- the waitlist just took too long to fix it.

      • SlavOz on 29/03/2022 - 21:36

        No because anything that happens to me is someone else's fault. How dare you insist I take some responsibility.

  • bajillionaire on 29/03/2022 - 21:33
    +3

    My favourite part of this thread is how SlavOz made it super-easy for everyone to now disregard his future comments on anything else. 10/10.

  • Vote for Pedro on 29/03/2022 - 21:46
    +3

    Who pays for all that? It comes straight out of your taxes.

    That’s how living in a society usually works. Glad you finally figured that out.

    dentists will actually become more expensive as they'd no longer have any reason to keep their prices low

    the wait times will be increased because more people will be lining up for their free whitening or to fix a lifetime of poor oral hygiene

    the quality of care will inevitably decrease as more patients need to be served.

    So you're left paying MORE for an inferior service.

    That’s a statement of opinion presented as fact. So here’s my counter argument on the same level “ner ner its not inferior’

  • Cookiescream on 29/03/2022 - 21:57

    Dental health affects your body! Rotting teeth reduce your life expectancy.

  • xuqi on 29/03/2022 - 23:13

    OP sounds like a dentist….trying hard to convince everyone that providing universal preventative dental care is bad…

    • dizzle on 29/03/2022 - 23:25

      I'm envisaging the Steve Martin dentist from Little Shop of Horrors

  • BuyoTheCat on 30/03/2022 - 00:10
    +3

    Didn’t we all agree to not give serious replies to SlavOZ’s posts?

    In slavoz’s world, he is right. It is foolishness to enter his world to try to show him otherwise.

  • Scantu on 30/03/2022 - 00:21

    I mean, these are just arguments straight up for no public health care at all… so…

    And they basically amount to: "Hey if you do a poor job of implementing something it will be bad" yeah duh.

    Have a look at general health outcomes when dental hygiene is improved. Wide and positive consequences.

  • mdavant on 30/03/2022 - 06:03

    They trialled a denticare system and costs blowed out substantially.

    Who has been to a dentist with private cover?

    Oh, you need a clean, 2 xrays, etc etc.

    People saying root canals on medicare? heck no, it will be extraction at best. The system cannot afford thousands to save a tooth.

    There are public dental clinics they just need some extra funding.

  • porsche26c on 30/03/2022 - 06:42
    +2

    As a dentist, Medicare generally does not cover much and thus you barely break even when accepting it. However, prevention is key, I think there should be limited scope, possible 1 clean/examination with xrays per year per low to middle income person. If treatment is required, at least it would be caught early and a small filling does not cost as much as a large or extraction.

    Alternatively my view was dentists graduating should work in public clinic for 1 yr across the country (pay them well) and have it for the low-middle income earners. Make them pay, even if it $30 in advance as people will not show up as there is no value attached and they get their xp and people get their dental treatment attended to.

    • random12 on 31/03/2022 - 03:56

      I'm more interested in it being done through the government so there is consistent price and no gouging.

      I could take a $1000 dental bill once a year if need be. I just hate feeling gouged so much. If the government sets the fees, and its just an increase to the levy, then the cost is certain.

  • ddn2004 on 30/03/2022 - 09:13
    +1

    Why is it always first year economic students having these hottakes?

  • gravel on 30/03/2022 - 09:21

    "the prospect of having perfect teeth for "free" sounds appealing on paper" So does a facelift if your ageing skin is starting to sag, but it aint covered by Medicare. One of the more ridiculous propositions as a start to a conversation on these forums. And that's saying something. Many dental issues can be potentially life threatening. So at some point the problem will probably end up in the public health system. Of course basic dental should be covered. Yes it will lead to increased wait times but your teeth and the issues that can arise with same can make life utterly miserable. That's coming from someone with private healthcare, a great dentist who is more interested in prevention and still bloody scared at every visit.

  • 01001101 01000010 on 30/03/2022 - 09:58

    It's been a couple of days and 300+ comments. @SlavOz, you've taken the time to respond to comments; I'm curious, has your opinion changed at all?

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 11:54
      -4

      Well, thanks for recognising that I do indeed make a fair effort to read and respond to most comments, even with the ridiculous number I receive.

      No, my opinion hasn't changed because none of my original arguments have really been addressed. 98% of replies are just "Nooo shutup I want my free dentist lalalalala"

      That dentists will become more expensive and wait times will be increased in not really an opinion that can be changed…it's more of a static fact. Basic laws of economics dictate that if demand goes up, prices go up too. This isn't an opinion, it's a widely observed phenomenon.

      • JoJoker on 30/03/2022 - 12:04
        +1

        What is this pseudo science dribble.

        Are you ignorantly or wilfully ignoring the supply side of economics? And what about the full canvas of macro and micro factors that go into price setting?

        • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 12:59

          You mean like the fact that everything else the government has gotten involved in (housing, cost of living, roads, marriage) has been a complete failure and rose in price?

          Like the fact that dentists no longer have any incentive to keep their prices reasonable if they know people are being subsidised?

          Yes, I've considered the nuance of the pricing issue.

          • gravel on 30/03/2022 - 18:36

            @SlavOz: Actually pretty much all of your original argument has been shot down, mainly because they make no sense are are not actually based on fact but simply your feelings about the matter. It's what happens when ideology gets in the way of reality.

          • kronicd on 30/03/2022 - 19:17

            @SlavOz: Are you suggesting that amending the law to allow same sex marriage qualifies as a failure?

      • cookie2 on 30/03/2022 - 21:22

        You don't think it would create new growth in the industry? Change creates growth.

  • curleytrain on 30/03/2022 - 10:41

    People with healthcare card have facility of free dental care. Why shouldn't the tax payers have it?

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 11:55
      -3

      People on welfare get free money and housing. Why shouldn't everyone else get it too?

      • curleytrain on 30/03/2022 - 11:57

        doesn't mean they should get everything for free. You seem to be one of those so advocating this

      • Diji on 31/03/2022 - 09:49

        Free housing?

  • JoJoker on 30/03/2022 - 12:01
    +1

    This is a garbage thread.

    dentists will actually become more expensive as they'd no longer have any reason to keep their prices low

    This completely ignores a key benefit of single-payer healthcare – collective bargaining.

    the wait times will be increased because more people will be lining up for their free whitening

    How black and white. Why are the only options every dental item is bulk billed or none of them are?

    or to fix a lifetime of poor oral hygiene

    Perhaps if dental was affordable, those lifetime of problems would have been resolved much earlier and avoided the the need for more work.

    the quality of care will inevitably decrease as more patients need to be served.

    Citation and economics qualifications required.

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 12:56
      -6

      All of your points have already been discussed and addressee in this thread. Maybe instead if calling it 'garbage' you can go back and read some of it.

      All the best.

      • gravel on 30/03/2022 - 18:43

        And maybe you can back up your arguments with some fact. Let me help you out a little bit. In the US approx 14% of GDP is spent on health care. And guess what it's predominately private and you need insurance to access it. It's the most significant cause of bankruptcy in the US. Fees are ridiculous.
        That's what happens when private industry is left to it's own devices.
        Like I said before ideology and fact rarely meet.

  • FreeFrag on 30/03/2022 - 13:09
    +3

    I think what I got from this argument is that OP thinks that in order to ensure better quality and price, we should ignore people who can't afford it and let them suffer! Am I missing something here?

    • Ughhh on 30/03/2022 - 13:40
      +3

      Especially the fatties. They live rent free 24/7 in his head.

    • SlavOz on 30/03/2022 - 14:27

      Medicare funding is not only for people who can't afford treatment. It's for everyone, whether you're a billionaire or on Centrelink.

      Stop inventing imaginary scenarios to justify your position. I'm not particularly opposed to a system of vouchers for low income people with serious dental problems, but that wouldn't apply to anyone here, nor is it what most people are arguing for.

      Most people are simply arguing for Medicare to cover dental because they want to save $$ on their next visit.

      • FreeFrag on 30/03/2022 - 15:15

        Stop inventing imaginary scenarios to justify your position.

        I haven't discussed my own position yet. I was just asking for clarification about your position.

        I'm not particularly opposed to a system of vouchers for low income people with serious dental problems, but that wouldn't apply to anyone here, nor is it what most people are arguing for.

        I'd argue that any dental problem (I'm obviously not talking about whitening) if untreated, can turn into a serious issue.

        Most people are simply arguing for Medicare to cover dental because they want to save $$ on their next visit.

        Well, if I accept your assumption that people can afford it and just look at this as a way to save some money, then, of course your position makes sense. BUT I actually see it totally differently.
        Based on some reports (like this old news article) half of Australians don't go to dentist and I think money is one of the factors in their decision. I think this is a serious problem and needs to be addressed and free dental is an obvious candidate which may have some flaws but you can't dismiss it that easily just by assuming that most people don't need the government support for their dental issues.
        Maybe you're too rich and the people around you all can afford dental but as an immigrant, the first thing that shock me in Australia was how easy it was to spot poor people by looking at their mouth!

        • random12 on 31/03/2022 - 03:23

          There are also many people who can afford dental, but just don't want to go because they feel like they are ripped off everytime they go.

          It would be great if basic check ups and fillings were covered by the government, and everyone just paid a slightly higher % income tax.

          It would encourage many more people to go for check ups (since you already paid for it through income tax) and they won't feel like they are getting ripped off either.

      • random12 on 31/03/2022 - 03:15

        You are damn right they would save on their next visit.

        Because then they would only be paying $20 for a filling instead of $200. Well, the government would be paying the $20 instead of them, but you get the idea.

        The whole health insurance industry is a SCAM. You pay all the premiums, and then you only get a small amount actually reimbursed. It's a pain in the ass to do the research on all the different plans.

        Just have the government with the negotiating power of 25 million to set the price (at a reasonable profit margin - not gouging) and then add 1 or 2% extra to the income tax rates.

        Medicine is not a free market like your local fruit market. There is huge information asymmetry. Regular people do not know what a reasonable cost is for check up and fillings. An expert negoiating on behalf of the government does.

        I tried to ask for prices from a few dentists. It was very awkward, and boy was the variability in prices enormous. People MUST be getting ripped off.

        I don't want 'choice' in medicine. I just want it dealt with. Just do the check up, and don't rip me off , thanks.

        • SlavOz on 02/04/2022 - 16:55
          -1

          It really does take a lot of delusion to think that the government who made Australia one of the most expensive countries in the world to live in will actually make anything cheaper.

          Just because they made house prices untenable for most of the population, it makes perfect sense to think they will make dental care cheap and affordable!!

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