![[NSW] Panasonic Eneloop Battery Charger Multi Pack (AA*8 + AAA*4) $40 @ Costco, Marsden Park (Membership Required)](https://files.ozbargain.com.au/n/79/681579.jpg?h=ee18c4ad)
Panasonic eneeloop ready to use rechargeable battery
Charger multi pack
AA 8 cells 2000mah
AAA 4 cells 800mah
With Charger
Was AUD $50
Now AUD $40
at Costco
Checked in Marsden Park Sydney
Membership required
[NSW] Panasonic Eneloop Battery Charger Multi Pack (AA*8 + AAA*4) $40 @ Costco, Marsden Park (Membership Required)
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boOz on 06/02/2022 - 09:57 costco.com.au (1443 clicks)
Last edited 07/02/2022 - 13:01 by 1 other user
Last edited 07/02/2022 - 13:01 by 1 other user
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Good point… further digging shows cc51 can only charge 2 at a time https://eneloop.panasonic.com/en/products/charger-bq-cc51.ht…
This is misleading. It can charge 2 at a time or 4 at a time, it just can't charge single batteries.
Ah no wonder when I tried to do a single battery, it didn’t charge.
So stupid what happens if I just want to only charge one battery which I would if I just had 1 battery I need to recharge. I’d have to put it with another charged battery just so it’s “2 batteries” to charge that single battery - that’s annoying
@prankster: Never ever charge a fully charged battery with an empty one. If you absolutely need to charge a single battery then you have to buy a better charger.
@GhostofB: I regularly charge just one battery (an Eneloop Pro that's used by my old Logitech MX Revolution mouse). I have a proper quick charge Eneloop charger though!
@GhostofB: Prior to charging don't they discharge the battery? I know some chargers may not do this or is this old tech!? Do fast chargers 15m/1.5hr do this? Or they don't do this at all?
I'm also fairly certain that multi battery devices discharge batteries unevenly which means 1 might go flat whilst the others may have upto 75% charge. Does switching the batteries around even help this?
@cobknob: No, a dumb charger like this definitely doesn't have a discharge function, it doesn't even have the ability to see one battery at a time and just treats them as pairs. The only thing 'smart' about it is that it will turn itself off after 12 hours of charging.
And if you're buying it for the 'green' side of things; you're better off charging 2, not 4.
Because as a 'dumb' charger, the current drops based on how many cells.And NiMH at low charge rates are terribly inefficient.
It charges batteries in banks of 2 for about 8 hours trickle charge. I reverted to a smarter one.
about 8 hours trickle charge.
"Trickle charge" means a charge taking 20 hours or more, it's a defined term. It means "the rate of charging which you can continuously charge batteries at, without harm*".
8 hours is a slow charge, but not a trickle charge. Some chargers switch to trickle charge after normal charging, this is usually an indication of a charger that can't properly detect full charge.
(* Trickle charging does eventually kill batteries, by forming dendrites that short out the battery. Was used for many many years in emergency lighting for buildings, where the batteries were on continuous charge, and were replaced annually).
Phones still do this for li-ion/polymer. I don't understand why it's so hard to design a circuit that once a battery is fully charged to simply cut off charging until the device reaches 80% charge again. Or even have a toggle/relay switch (pretty certain a transistor can do this too) that disables charging and requires you to disconnect and reconnect the device to charge again.
Phones still do this for li-ion/polymer.
No, most phone charge in 1-2 hours, in no way is that trickle charging. Lithium-ion batteries stop accepting charge once they reach full, I think you're mistaking that for trickle charge.
I don't understand why it's so hard to design a circuit that once a battery is fully charged to simply cut off charging until the device reaches 80% charge
If you did that, you'd hugely extend the life of your lithium-ion battery. Lithium-ion batteries last longer if only charged to 4.1V. There are charger chips with a 4.1V cut-off. If charged to 4.2V the life is shorter. Most phones charge the batteries to 4.35V, which pretty much guarantees you'll notice significant degradation after about 2-3 years. Is it just coincidence that most people replace their phones every 2-3 years? The 4.35 charge gives a little more stored energy, but looks like a deliberate ploy by phone manufacturers to encourage more phone sales.
Phones still do this for li-ion/polymer.
No, most phone charge in 1-2 hours, in no way is that trickle charging. Lithium-ion batteries stop accepting charge once they reach full, I think you're mistaking that for trickle charge.
I think you'll find that most phones charge in 1-2 hours if they use a fast/quick charger not the standard charger. Some phones also continue to stay at 100% charge if they remain connected to a charger (I'm using a fast charger), hence why they say fully charged disconnect from charger or just charged, but on my phone I have enabled the percentage in the battery icon and whilst it's connected it says 100% with a charging symbol.
Is there a maximum amount of charge cycles for smart phone batteries or is this extremely variable due to several factors
@cobknob: Trickle charging is a constant-current charging method. Li-ion batteries will be destroyed if you try to charge them with trickle charging, they need a constant-voltage charging method, the voltage is written on your charger in small print.
Is there a maximum amount of charge cycles for smart phone batteries
Almost all phone batteries die for a different reason. Li-ion batteries are not stable, they degrade with time, and it makes little difference whether you are using them or not. High temperatures will accelerate the degradation, but the main factor in how quickly they degrade is their state of charge. Leaving them flat hugely speeds degradation, as does charging them to too high a voltage, see my comments above for the typical voltages they are charged to.
Some different lithium-ion battery chemistries degrade at slower rates, e.g. LiFePO4, but have other other trade-offs like less safe or lower amount of energy stored in the same volume.
Definitely want smart charger and capable of charging single cell or you'll get some under or overcharged
Anyone recommend a battery charger??
Need to get some rechargeable batteries and chargerLiitokala?
Many Liitokala chargers are good, but some are poor. Lii402 is an example of one of the poor ones, it will take 5+ hours to fully charge four eneloop pro AA batteries. That's too slow for reliable end-of-charge detection.
Make sure you pick one that can charge NiMh batteries (some can only charge lithium-ion batteries), and pick one that can charge each battery at 1000mA when fully loaded with AA batteries. You'll usually have to download the charger manuals to get this spec.
Off the top of my head, lii-202, lii-500, lii-500S and lii-600 meet these requirements. There are probably others too.
If you have 'random batteries' around the place, hobby chargers are cheap.
If they're all cylinder cells (like AA, AAA, 18650, etc) then liitokala, nitecore, skyRC or Opus.
The liitokala is easy to use (read the damn manual! Lol), and has a 1000mAh setting for AA's, and a 500mAh setting for AAA's.
Arguably a bit slow if "green" is your driving factor (saving electricity etc) but if "not having to buy batteries" is your driving factor, then at least close to 0.5C isnt a bad charge rate. Thats about a 3-4 hour charge.
0.75C is ideal for modern NiMH for efficiency; which, at NiMh's lossy input, means a 2 hour charge.
0.75C is ideal for modern NiMH for efficiency
I'd go lower than that, 0.5C treats the batteries nicer, they won't get as hot. Results in a 2.5-3 hour charge, which is still good for accurate end-of-charge detection in a smart charger.
Excessive heat damages batteries, and when charging, maximum temperature is reached as the charge cycle ends. If you take the batteries out of your charger just after they finish charging, and they're so hot that you can't hold them in a fist, they've probably been damaged from the heat.
Ive always started (modern) NiMh at 1C, which in most smart chargers tapers to 0.6C at the end of the charge.
With a little USB fan, I've never seen over 40C.
If it doesn't reach 36C (well, 37.6 IIRC, but I'm not squeezing that last single percent) then the cell isn't actually full yet.Within the 'recommended' 45C range, and WELL below the 55C real damage temp (60C usually results in failure, not degredation).
most smart chargers tapers to 0.6C at the end of the charge.
Very few if any modern smart chargers taper their charge. I've not seen any, either by owning them or looking at specs. I currently own Liitokala Lii-500, Nitecore D4, Maha C9000, and I've seen the charging graphs of many others on lygte-info.dk. Chargers do taper when charging li-ion batteries, but not when charging NiMh batteries. Perhaps you are remembering the li-ion charging curves?
With a little USB fan,
You left that out of the comment that recommended 0.75C charging rate. With a fan, to reduce battery temperature rise, 0.75C sounds much more reasonable.
@Russ: No im not confusing LiPo.
my Lipo profile is a minimum 3C, since my hobbies draw at least 30-50C out of them; so if they cant handle 3C in, their mOHMs will be too high not to sag when I discharge. I tend to get 3+ years out of them, HV charging non HV packs, and draining to 3.1V.
Lithium is such a trooper.My iMax B6 and B8 both certainly taper in NiMh mode. They have both a MAN and AUTO mode for current detection.
My liitokala doesn't, but it cant even do 0.5c of most AA's, so thats not an issue.
You left that out of the comment that recommended 0.75C charging rate.
I didnt leave it out, it was irrelevant.
Even if it overheated and failed soon after; the statement that its the most efficient rate, is still true.Besides, my house has an average temperature of 32c year round (summer can reach 40) most people are in cooler climates or have insulation. They also charge fine without the fan, but often end up just over 43c, so I prefer to keep them lower.
I read manuals but batteries and rechargeables have been staples for over a decade. Surely something like this could be automated in a charger?
Maha Powerex C9000 Pro
I've been using Maha MH-C800S and been happy with it.
Is $40 worth buying just for the batteries?
Apparently IKEA's ladda batteries are just as good, and significantly cheaper. However the charger is always out of stock. The charger is quick charging too!
https://www.ikea.com/au/en/p/stenkol-ladda-battery-charger-a…
Quick charger is never a good thing
It is on NiMH, so long as the cells dont get hot.
The second you drop below 0.5C, NiMH becomes horribly inefficient; and "slow" can end up hotter, and wasting electricity.
Its worth looking up a chart, its an interesting battery chemistry.
The charger is quick charging too!
Be cautious with that charger. The charging rate looks good for charging 1 or 2 batteries, but four batteries take 8 hours to charge!
The longer the charging cycle, the smaller the -dV/dT effect, so it is more difficult to detect. So the charger may miss seeing the "battery full" signal, and overcharge your battery. Batteryuniversity.com put the maximum charge duration at four hours, for reliable detection.
Ikea are known for claiming -dV/dT detection on chargers that charge too slowly to show the -dV/dT effect. Their Tjugo charger is perhaps the worst in this respect, with 10-12 hours charging time!
No. Eneloop bandwagon on ozB just won't stop.
Ikea batteries are just as good at $15 for 4. They're made in Japan, most likely manufactured by FDK who also make eneloops.
Eneloops were good because of LSD, now nearly every nimh has that feature and really doesn't make them any more special than other brands made in Japan.
Can I charge ikea battery using Panasonic charger?
Yes, they're both nimh and the charger is made to charge nimh.
Should you be using those chargers? Probably not if you want your batteries to last a decade
Anything for charging Eneloops or are these only for charging Eneeloops?
so still waiting on an appropriate charger thanks
Afaik, maybe Google for yourself, rechargeables should be charged at 0.1C
So a 2500 mah battery should be charged at 250 ma. And best using a smart charger that will turn off when battery fully charged for each channel/battery.
I always discharge all the batteries first, charger detects when flat, then automatically charges, then automatically turns off. Takes about 12 hours. I'm still using 30 year old batteries. Lots of conflicting advise here.
The go to charger here was the La Crosse BC-700 which I use and is no longer made.
This seems to be an identical copy. I put the batteries in, press right button, select discharge, then it does the rest as above.
https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/283437053556?chn=ps&_ul=AU&norov…rechargeables should be charged at 0.1C
No! That's the old "dumb charger" speed, which takes 12-14 hours to charge the batteries.
Smart chargers need to see the -dV/dT effect (the battery voltage levels off or drops slightly at full charge) to know when to stop charging. But the slower you charge, the smaller the voltage change, so it gets very difficult to detect if charging takes more than 4 hours. Likewise you don't want to charge in less than 2 hours, because this tends to overheat the battery.
The compromise charging rate is about 0.5C, which will charge the batteries in about 3 hours (or less if they weren't fully flat). For most AA NiMh batteries this is a charge current of 1000mA or thereabouts; for most AAA NiMh batteries the charge current should be about 400mA.
I say "most" batteries, because there are still batteries available with low capacity. For example, Bunnings sell "Solar Magic AA 600mAh Ni-Mh Rechargeable Batteries", these should be charged at 300mA (=0.5C).
I always discharge all the batteries first
There's almost no need to do this for NiMh batteries. It was required for NiCad batteries, as they would develop "memory effect", which is almost unknown in NiMh batteries.
The only time I've needed to discharge NiMh batteries was for very-low-draw applications, like wall clocks. After a year in the clock, on recharge the batteries would report as having a substantially lower capacity than the rating written on the battery. "Exercising" the battery by discharging and recharging two or three times recovers most of the lost capacity.
La Crosse BC-700 which I use and is no longer made.
La Crosse chargers had a bad reputation for having burning smells, and some had parts of the case melt. Here's a typical report, read it before you use the charger again: https://budgetlightforum.com/node/2625
So I'm slowly killing my batteries by using a 15m enelope quick charger? They do get warm.
They do get warm.
That's the problem. the rule of thumb is that if you take a battery out of the charger just after it reaches full charge, and you can't hold it in your fist with your fingers wrapped around it, it's too hot. 40 degrees is "feverish", 45-50 degrees you'll feel "this is really uncomfortable but I can hold it if I have to". Above 50 degrees, most people have a reflex that will make them automatically drop the battery. First-degree skin burns start at about 55 degrees.
If the external temperature of the battery gets hotter than about 50 degrees, the internal temperature is higher again. The electrolyte will start to steam, and the pressure of the steam will rupture a concealed pressure-relief valve, usually at the positive end of the battery. The steam will vent, and because the valve has ruptured, the remaining electrolyte in the battery will leak out and dry out over months to years. You'll see this as continually reducing battery capacity. In white eneloop batteries, you can also see what looks like a water stain at the positive end of the battery, under the plastic cover. This is the escaped electrolyte.
Once the pressure-relief valve has ruptured, it's not repairable, you can't go back. Even a single charging cycle where the battery got too hot is likely to permanently damage your batteries.
Most of the heat generation during the charge cycle is at the end of the cycle. I've read that some "quick" chargers (1 hour or less) reduce the heat problem by significantly under-charging the batteries, so they don't get to the hottest part of the charging cycle. But it's all dependent on the internal temperature of the batteries, as to whether they get damaged. I know that my AA batteries are quite warm at the end of a three-hour charge, I imagine a 15-minute charge would make batteries much too hot.
I suspect Panasonic want you to damage your batteries, so you buy more from them. But the damage won't happen so quickly that you can identify the charger was the cause of the damage. A small number of Panasonic/Sanyo chargers are/were good, but the vast majority of them mistreat the batteries.
NO!
Thats some very old NiCD and 'early' NiMH numbers.
0.3c is the minimum now, and 0.5c a recommended normal.
https://batteryuniversity.com/article/bu-408-charging-nickel…
The important info there, is that anything below 0.3c wont cause a voltage or temp spike to signal end of charge. So the charger will 'run forever' and eventually vent the cell.
Thankyou so much Sanyo
The Battery charger is no good, After couple of times of recharging cycle. The battery connectors on the charger doesn't make good contact with the battery.
I picked up one from Auburn, NSW.
It is $40 in Costco Marsden Park Sydney with instant rebate.
Not able to upload the image here ..