HELP PLEASE! Scammed out of nearly $100K

jay889344 on 15/03/2021 - 17:50
Last edited 10/06/2021 - 00:15 by 1 other user

Hi everyone,

So I'd like to precede this by saying I already feel absolutely horrible. I feel like throwing up constantly just thinking about this, but thought I would put it out there to see if anyone in the OzBargain community might have had any similar experiences or any advice.

Long story short, it appears a scammer hacked either my conveyancer's or the other side's conveyancers email accounts. and from doing so, got my details as well as the details of my upcoming property settlement. They knew the amounts due in terms of stamp duty payments etc, as well as the dates these amounts were due. They created a near identical email account to my Conveyancer, who I was emailing around 5-10 times a day and so simply didn't notice anything out of the ordinary when I received the scammer's email. It popped up only with my Conveyancer's name and the email address didn't come up as 'new sender' or anything. I know that I should have checked the email address before doing anything, but I had just answered about 3 other emails from my Conveyancer and still had about 3 to go. I had 6 emails in a row from her on different matters and it didn't at all enter my mind that 1 of these 6 might not be like the others.

In short, I transferred nearly $100K at the direction of this scammer who I believed to be my Conveyancer to the account they directed in the email. I called the Conveyancer later that afternoon to discuss another matter, and mentioned to her I had transferred the stamp duty payment for this property. It was then we both realised what had happened.

I searched the BSB and realised it was a Bank X account. I called Bank Y first (my bank) to ask them to commence a scam investigation and try recover the funds immediately. They advised the funds had already reached the other account but they opened the Scam investigation immediately. I then went to Bank X and tried to have them freeze the account the funds were received into. They said the account was already closed and for some reason, they couldn't see any details in the system about who had opened or closed it (how is that possible?). That night, I attended the Police Station and filed a fraud/scam report.

I now have the Conveyancer's insurer, the Police and Bank Y/Bank X working on this case but I'm accepting the worst and not expecting to get anything back. In the off chance anyone here might have had similar experiences and have any advice, I thought I'd raise it to the OzB community. Again, please don't pile on me. I know and I feel horrible. I've barely been able to sleep and I am just hoping there may be some avenue I haven't thought of, even if its not likely to succeed.

Thanks in advance everyone

Mod: Edited for privacy

Financial

Comments

  • bryans on 17/03/2021 - 08:07
    +8

    Very risky to be transferring a large amount of money blindly to a bsb+account you have never transacted on before. I always transfer a small amount first and confirm with other party before sending rest of the balance..

  • giventofly on 17/03/2021 - 08:18
    +3

    Thanks for this post, OP

    It raises awareness which is one of the most useful tools.

    To be fair, I would have got done too. Doesn't seem unreasonable.

    The only caveat being…use bank cheques for this stuff in the future. Don't sign it until you're with the other party.

    I really hope you get the funds back.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/03/2021 - 00:14

      It serves as a great caution to all of us. Another thing to consider is what information do we store in an email account. Do you have your digital signature stored in your email ? What about account recovery codes ? I know I’m guilty of these and would need time to sort my security again.

  • Venustrap87 on 17/03/2021 - 08:24
    +2

    So what happens with the settlement is it still going ahead?

    • jay889344 on 17/03/2021 - 21:03
      +9

      Thankfully, yes!

      • bargain huntress on 18/03/2021 - 16:14
        +1

        that's good, but how are you paying it?

        • jay889344 on 19/03/2021 - 12:44
          +1

          With the last of my savings. Will be living pay cheque to pay cheque after settlement for some time now unfortunately!

  • gakko on 17/03/2021 - 09:04
    +5

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-17/aged-care-resident-sc…

    Here's a very similar case in today's news. Crazy shit.

    • Buckshot on 17/03/2021 - 11:38
      +3

      I came here to share that very article.
      This stuff is cancer. Microsoft need to do a re-evaluation on their security framework for O365 as this kind of scamming is far to common place.

      Put a 48hr delay on large transactions
      Encourage the Payer to contact the receiver directly to verify details.

      More needs to be done!!

      • gakko on 17/03/2021 - 13:41
        +1

        Yeah. I think the craziest thing is that it's kind of 'one fell swoop' in a very large transaction. Like, there is not even a chance for the victim to engage in denial (i.e. in Nigerian love scams and such) and have the scam continue. It's over before you know it.

        It's also amazing that the banks are so fast in processing the transactions. They could at the very least have a transaction size relative to the usual activity size of an account which creates a short term hold or something like that. It's the kind of thing we assume banks do but apparently do not.

      • jmi on 17/03/2021 - 22:33
        +5

        This has nothing to do with O365 but more to do with the fact that SMTP is an extremely old technology that was built without cyber security features in mind in the first place.

        Throw it into a field where large money transfers take place like conveyancers (who likely do not have the technical expertise nor the money to provide decent secured systems) and it's simply a disaster in the making.

        I never understand why people have this false belief. The easiest point of attack is not the vulnerability. It is actually the end user. Social engineering is the best and easiest form of attack to gain entry into a computer system, not a security vulnerability.

        Common tricks to getting people to click on links:

        "Hey, watch this funny Youtube video from your friend." Congrats, you've been hacked.
        "This is an Amazon bill payment that was made to you for orders that you purchased this past week. If you have a problem with this bill, please complete this form (click on this link)." Congrats, you've been hacked.
        "The fact that you are receiving this email from your own email account proves that your account has been hacked by us. We also have confidential information and have videotaped through your camera on some embarassing activities. If you do not wish to be exposed, please send money to this bitcoin wallet." Congrats, you've been scammed.
        "This is your parking fine. You have 14 days to dispute this charge. Click on the link to view the photos that were taken as proof of your traffic offence" Congrats, you've been hacked.
        "The ATO has launched an audit against your tax filing of 2020 and a few discrepancies were discovered and a sum of $xxxx is made against you. If you believe that your tax filing was correct and wish to dispute this charge, please follow this link and a customer support officer will get in touch with you shortly." Congrats, you've been hacked.

        You will be surprised how many people fall for this kind of thing.

        • Buckshot on 18/03/2021 - 01:57

          You're absolutely right, people are the weakest link in IT security. Kevin Mitnick highlighted human hacking (social engineering) back in the 90's.

          There are however a few assumptions in your post regarding the security of the conveyancer and how they've been compromised. I'm not saying you're wrong, just saying we don't have all the information to make assumptions, I'm speaking to myself too.

  • Garyd123 on 17/03/2021 - 09:17
    +2

    Firstly this is not uncommon (see all the comments). Secondly where I have seen it, it has ALWAYS been the company who had their systems exploited. I mean it makes sense right, they aren't going after Joe blogs it's too hard to identify individuals who are going to transact large sums of money. It's much easier to go after the company who happens to have all their contact details over the place and linked in information available. I would be surprised if you were the only client affected.

  • star-ggg on 17/03/2021 - 09:42
    +1

    There needs to be a better security system from banks to prevent this from happening. What's the point of KYC if your customer can just disappear after committing a crime (receiving proceeds from crime is still a crime).

  • jz5147 on 17/03/2021 - 10:55

    Similar Scam but with aged care bond!
    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2021-03-17/aged-care-resident-sc…

    • strangeloops66 on 17/03/2021 - 10:58
      +1

      gakko beat you by an hour and 51 minutes. Three comments above yours.

      • strangeloops66 on 18/03/2021 - 13:27

        Which statement of fact are you negging? If it's the second one, at the time I published my comment, there were no comments by Buckshot, jmi, nor gakko (responding to Buckshot's first comment), so gakko's comment containing the ABC News link was, in fact, "three comments above yours".

  • weee on 17/03/2021 - 11:15
    +1

    these days transfer between 2 banks takes no time to get into the account (even if its a large amount), I'm shocked, however, is that it leaves no trace of opening and closing account let alone there was a $100k withdrawal in between, hard to believe it was not an inside job or downright criminal negligence on their end, fight to the end OP and all the best!

  • 6000SUX on 17/03/2021 - 11:47

    I feel for you man - hope it works out in the end. Good luck

  • dinoidly on 17/03/2021 - 12:13

    I almost got scammed the same way. On the day of the settlement, the scammer pretended to me as my real estate agent and emailed me asking for my conveyancer e-mail address. I replied and copied my other real estate agent that I was dealing with. She immediately replied, saying it is spam.
    A few hours later, I got an email from the scammer pretending as my conveyancer asking if the funds are ready for the settlement and asked to transfer the funds to a CBA account.

    Since I agreed to my conveyancer that they are going to use the fund that is already in my account, I didn't respond to that email and called the conveyancer directly.

    I usually check my emails on the phone, and it only shows the first and last name of the person. It's an easy trap.

  • Wiser on 17/03/2021 - 12:24

    Years back banks used to reject transfers when the account name is not matching.
    They should bring this back even though it is inconvenient at times.
    This give at least another layer of scrutiny..
    Wish you Luck OP

  • trapper on 17/03/2021 - 12:51
    +2

    but I'm accepting the worst and not expecting to get anything back

    No. There is a very good chance you will get this money back, don't give up.

  • smartblaa on 17/03/2021 - 12:52
    +1

    Seen this before. Guessing that one of the conveyancer parties got compromised via phishing, they were then impersonated via similar domain and mail rules. As others have said, check the headers and audit logs.

    They start by automatically (scripted) phishing large tranches of email addresses. Then when they steal their credentials (via fake ms login pages) then move into these more sophisticated activities, spin up similar domains eg acmeconveyancersau.com instead of acmeconveyancers.com. They then insert themselves into existing conversation threads (using mail rules to hide their tracks from the victim).

    • Crusader on 17/03/2021 - 19:01

      Agree with the above. Seen it as well.

  • chefdillu on 17/03/2021 - 13:32
    -4

    When you willing fully send money to some one then its not considered that someone hacked into your account even if you were scammed into sending it and you cannot force money out of someone's account if they are not willing to give it back , I know this sucks
    Also stamp Duty etc is paid by the conveyancer on settlement of the loan and you don't have to pay anything to anyone

    • strangeloops66 on 17/03/2021 - 17:27

      Someone purporting to be his conveyancer sent OP bank details for the payment of stamp duty. I consider that there has been hacking and fraud and sheer bastardry. If the money was still in the scammer's bank account, it could be recovered very easily.

      Also, OP was getting funds to the conveyancer for the payment of stamp duty. No conveyancer or law firm will pay stamp duty from their own bank account - they need to be placed in funds.

      • kmwa on 18/03/2021 - 01:26
        -1

        They ought to make the banks wear the cost of scams like this, rather than making individual clients carry the loss.
        That would sharpen up their act. At present, even mistaking a single digit on a BSB can result in your funds being irretrievably lost. That really is unacceptable, and the scammers are taking advantage of this lack of security enabled by the banks,

  • Danstar on 17/03/2021 - 13:58
    +3

    Sorry for your loss

    My conveyancers sig includes this statement

    Due to cyber fraud, any email containing bank account details must be verified by telephone by us prior to any payment.

    Maybe you should tell your conveyancer to add this to theirs

    • Logical on 17/03/2021 - 14:13
      +7

      Spot on….. an accountant I work with has this on their email signature:

      WARNING – To minimise the risk of cyber fraud, we request that you verify any email received from us containing bank account details for our trust account or any other account by calling us on _________. You should not transfer funds to any third party without first obtaining verification of the correct bank account details. Conversely, we will not use bank account details supplied by you without verification by phone.

      PLEASE NOTE that we will NEVER change account details via email. If you get an email purporting to be from us changing any account details previously provided this will most likely be a SCAM. If you receive such an email please immediately contact us by phone.

      It does appear OP that your conveyancor is at Fault here and you should get the money back.

  • weee on 17/03/2021 - 14:29
    +4

    also be careful on updating the crucial info here, who knows if the scammers are lurking around here or not

  • beany155 on 17/03/2021 - 15:19

    Just some info for you. High value payments are sent via the swift network which is through the reserve bank. The process will be slow but this will end up with the federal police to investigate.

    Your chances of getting the funds back arent good unless insurance company pays up.

    NAB can definately tell you whose account that was but usually wait for a Police warrant.

    Most likely scenario is the funds are overseas and most likely unrecoverable.

    Virtual hug coming your way… If you have any questions, you can PM me…

  • Lockieasy on 17/03/2021 - 16:18
    +1

    Damn that sucks OP.

    Similar thing happened to my friend when doing renovations. The receptionist sent her bank details instead of the construction company's, then quit her job and fled after receiving a few $100k from various clients.

    Fortunately my friend wasn't out of pocket because it was a result of a scammer employee from within the company.

  • krgurr on 17/03/2021 - 16:26

    That's many sacrifices to save 100K for a house deposit. Hope you get your money back . For first time transfer I usually send small denominations to be safe if account details are correct or not. Any way this is kind of a eye opener to check email sender details every time we reply .

    • modsec802 on 21/03/2021 - 22:21

      I think $100k was just the stamp duty

  • Essigee on 17/03/2021 - 16:29

    Ouch…

    We just settled a property and our conveyancer was adamant they would only send their bank details via text at a certain time (they’d already send me messages from the same number previously) and that I could call them to confirm the BSB and account numbers.

    I did the transfer at my bank (paid a $35 fee) and I had to sign a Scam Form - asked questions like are you sure you know who you’re sending money too, it’s near impossible to get money back if this is a scam etc.

    I hope you get your money back!

  • Guiltyofv on 17/03/2021 - 17:49

    Just read on the news
    https://www.news.com.au/national/western-australia/102yearol…

    From what OP said and this story, this sounds so similar.
    Hope you'll recover your money soon.

    • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2021 - 17:50

      You beat me by 3 seconds lol.

      • Guiltyofv on 17/03/2021 - 17:53
        +1

        Never hurts i guess to spam it everywhere to help some other poor soul from parting with their money :).

    • mandelbrot on 17/03/2021 - 18:23
      +5

      Only about the 10th time this article has been linked in this thread.

      • strangeloops66 on 17/03/2021 - 18:47
        +8

        Username doesn't check out ;)

  • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2021 - 17:49
    +1

    Damn that’s a hard one to swallow. Hope they catch the scum and you get it all back.

    Just read something similar happening to a very old lady. Some people have no soul.

    https://www.news.com.au/national/western-australia/102yearol…

  • Eeples on 17/03/2021 - 18:42
    +1

    OP, didn't you need to make a new Payee?

    Does OSKO still have a 24hr wait on a first time Payee payment?

    From CBA website: "First time payments to a new payee may be held for up to 24 hours as a security measure."

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 17/03/2021 - 19:12

    This is why when you moving a big amount you pay the $10 for a bank cheque

    I do feel for you man, i doubt you will see your money again. But i hope you do the system lets this criminals get away with too much.

  • Sneeze on 17/03/2021 - 19:21

    It's almost a certainty that this has resulted from a targeted hack on the conveyancers email account. Once they have access to the email account they won't give themselves away, they quietly monitor and do their research until they identify where they can intercept a payment.

    The hacker will then either send their email from the hacked account directly and delete the evidence from their Sent folder so that the business is unaware. Alternatively they setup another email account as similar as possible to the businesses legit one and use that.

    The bank account will be one of three things, an account opened with false documents, the account of an unwitting/gullible person who has been scammed in some way to gain access to their account, or someone who has been convinced to participate (not told the true source of money) and offered a fraction of the money for their participation.

    • SlavOz on 20/03/2021 - 22:39

      Feel like the email providers could be doing more as well. Surely with all the crazy algorithms they've got to study people's behaviour, they could quite easily develop a safety feature that identifies when something is wrong.

      Ie, an email address that is 99.9% similar to another one already on file, or at least a warning that you are reading a message from a new address for the very first time so you don't confuse it with an existing one.

  • Neoika on 17/03/2021 - 19:51

    You should have requested to BPay to Revenue NSW directly 3-5 days before settlement, no middle agency where possible.

    Conveyancer is human and can make mistakes even it is not on this occasion. I would trust in myself to put big money into the right account. All main banks check biller codes before you transfer out and easy to solve ref mistakes if it happens.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/03/2021 - 20:45

    Oh my gosh! I just don't know what to say really OP. This was quite elaborate and I believe that NAB should have some responsibility as the bank account manager.

  • dearears on 17/03/2021 - 20:55
    +2

    Try calling one of the media outlets. Today Tonight, ACA etc.

  • shangoz on 17/03/2021 - 21:01

    Sorry to hear this, scammers everywhere and very high tech now, even you get exactly the same email, plus verbal confirmation, still doesn’t mean save, so many case they copy and use AI technology to simulate your voice and talk and make it like emergency demand, then you’re dead duck, worse thing is, they’re the team work now, not solely, anyway, don’t fully relying on email, mobile, even video, always set the transaction limit and try to do as frequency face to face talk as possible, back to the old days.

  • sleepyowl on 17/03/2021 - 21:11
    +1

    This made me feel sick reading this, I'm so sorry dude I hope they recover the funds and NAB actually does something about the (profanity) who did this

    • snirodha on 17/03/2021 - 22:18

      Either OP is not telling the whole story or this is a bs story.

      • jayzee on 17/03/2021 - 22:28
        +2

        Either way, the moral of the story is to STAY VIGLIGANT when DEALING WITH YOUR MONEY, better be SAFE than SORRY.

        • Pootie Tang on 18/03/2021 - 01:11
          +2

          And? The scammer tried to hit them again to transfer to a new bank and he alerted Westpac. Did you read?

          • Amaris on 18/03/2021 - 06:41
            -4

            @Pootie Tang:

            email from the scammer with a settlement sheet and asking me to transfer the balance of cash required on top of the loan to the Westpac account they'd provided previously

            There was no mention of a Westpac account in the OP’s original post. Just trying to clarify which bank.

            • Pootie Tang on 18/03/2021 - 08:30

              @Amaris: Commonwealth Bank

              • strangeloops66 on 18/03/2021 - 11:30
                +1

                @Pootie Tang: Literally, "Which bank?", haha

              • Amaris on 18/03/2021 - 17:03
                +4

                @Pootie Tang: Yes, CBA was the OP's bank. The OP in the initial post said he was asked to transfer to a NAB account by the scammer. In a later comment the OP said the scammer wanted OP to transfer the balance of the cash "to the Westpac account they'd provided previously".
                At the very least I wanted to know if it was NAB or Westpac which closed the account and refused to give OP the details of the scammer.

      • Yola on 18/03/2021 - 17:13

        Or some people do not read OPs post properly and decide he is lying.

      • jay889344 on 19/03/2021 - 08:58
        +10

        Hi mate,

        Not sure why I would make up such a story? I get nothing from doing so.

        If I made an omission in telling the story, I apologise. Long story short, the account I transferred the money into was a Bank X account that is now closed. Bank X told me this. Knowing that, I knew that the scammer would need to provide me a new account if they were going to try get more money from me. They did. They emailed me saying my 'final deposit' was due and I asked them to confirm the account once again knowing the Bank X one was no more. Perhaps thinking I wouldn't notice, they provided me an account that was different and a Bank Z account, which I've now provided to Bank Y (my bank) and Bank Z. That is what I was referring to when I said '
        Bank Z account.'

        Cheers

        Mod: Edited for privacy

        • frostman on 20/03/2021 - 18:49
          +2

          I dont get it, when you open up a NAB/CBA account you need 100 points of ID, name, license, address etc.

          Even if the Account is Closed, surely police can track the person owning the false account with the 100 ID???

          • jay889344 on 21/03/2021 - 08:43
            +2

            @frostman: Exactly what I basically talked to in my complaint to AFCA. If Bank X are saying they don't know who opened or closed this account, have they met their obligations to KYC? How can they say they have? I'm hoping AFCA ask the same obviously

            Mod: Edited for privacy

            • DoctorCalculon on 22/03/2021 - 03:06
              +2

              @jay889344:

              If NAB are saying they don't know who opened or closed this account

              I am glad you reported NAB to AFCA.
              It smells like an inside job if someone is able to open an account without KYC compliance.

    • berrycrush on 18/03/2021 - 08:35
      +12

      I don't see the point in victim blaming here. You internet warriors rarely get a full enough story that you're happy with

  • Akya on 17/03/2021 - 22:45
    +4

    When I bought a property 12 months ago, all my solicitor’s emails and letters reminded to call them to verify the bank bsb and acc number by calling them before transferring any payments requested by email. I thought it was silly but after seeing several news stories and your’s, it makes a lot more sense!!

    I think you did all the right steps. Good luck, I hope you are able to recoup the funds.

  • erroorfree on 17/03/2021 - 23:24

    goto 4 corners mate. also seek legalAID and legal advice. Also isnt the personal limit for transfers is under $25k or $50k? or did you had it maxed out?

    • modsec802 on 21/03/2021 - 22:22

      OP is a lawyer

  • Raj09 on 17/03/2021 - 23:31

    I feel bad for you. This sounds like fraud and definitely nab should be able to do something

  • WT on 18/03/2021 - 01:41

    same MO but with aged care

    7news
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z5TGtn1Oguw

  • ajm07 on 18/03/2021 - 08:51
    +7

    Scams are all about about context. It's so easy to spot a scam when it's talking about offshore rigs in badly written english.

    But this one - I would have fallen for this hook line and sinker.

    • pformag on 18/03/2021 - 10:40

      For 100k, would you not phone the other person, and have them read out the Account and BSB, so you make sure it matches?

      • ajm07 on 19/03/2021 - 11:05
        +2

        On the phone number in the e-mail? Smiggle you just dun got duped.

        Honestly maybe, maybe not. Depending on the level of CONfidence in the e-mail or pdf documents I was looking at. Our brains are wired to make a snap decision on this, and I've had enough solicitors changing the game on me half way through settlement and literally asking for extra 100k at the last minute that it might just get through my auto sanity checks.

    • Eeples on 18/03/2021 - 10:48
      +16

      Mmm, I don’t think I would have.

      I recently bought a cheap $15K campervan and paid $3.48 to the dealers account. Rang him up and made him tell me how much I deposited. Then I transferred the rest.

      • 42 on 20/03/2021 - 05:38
        +1

        I did that transferring to one of my own new account for the first time to make sure I typed the right amount number

    • MementoMori on 19/03/2021 - 10:57

      Agreed - this was a good one.

      It's easy to all say WE wouldn't have, but you never know until you're in the situation

  • Hangryuman on 18/03/2021 - 09:31

    I believe this risk of fake account transfers of large amounts of money in property settlement transactions was highlighted as a substantial risk before the sale of the public Lands Title Office business to PEXA or somesuch for private profit

    but the NSW Liberal Government denied that with 'shibby right - more efficient mate!'

    sure - it's alright for their mates - who are now more efficiently extracting tax-payer dollars and putting them into their private offshore secret tax haven trust fund accounts

    too bad for You and Me Joe Public

    but that's how conservative politicians roll - taking money from the poor to give to the rich

    if you'd rather the opposite - taking money from the rich to give to the poor - that needs a Labor government.

    • Actionman77 on 18/03/2021 - 21:01

      Yeah, kinda reminds about the sell off of electrical infrastructure, that was going to lead to lower power prices.

    • djkelly69 on 18/03/2021 - 22:21
      -2

      Maybe better to just not comment if you have no idea what you are talking about.

    • [Deactivated] on 19/03/2021 - 18:45
      +1

      Ive done transfers with and without pexa

      pexa is SO much easier

  • axlfan on 18/03/2021 - 10:48

    I was scammed $450 by a lowlife who took advantage of me under similar circumstances. Just pathetic. That itself gutted me so I know how you feel.

    We recently did two settlements and we used the same conveyancer from last time. I had his details saved in my ban anyways and also we used PEXA.

    Now this app gets a lot of hate as we the buyers pay the PEXA fee. But the conveyancer sent his details in that app which we could have used to confirm.

    In any case, hindsight is 20/20. I hope the police can help you get back the money asap. This is getting out of hand.
    There should be legislation and protection against such scams. All the best!

  • PVA on 18/03/2021 - 11:25
    +1

    I am wondering if it’s something like this. The conveyancing system, PEXA, itself that is being used.
    Really sounds like it.
    Most conveyancing is done through PEXA (which I think is now owed by Comm Bank)

    https://www.itnews.com.au/news/pexa-beefs-up-security-contro…

    https://www.urban.com.au/news/85714-masterchef-s-dani-venn-g…

    I feel for you OP. Please don’t feel bad, it’s the bastard scammers that have done wrong, not you..

  • Grish on 18/03/2021 - 11:31
    +2

    The OP part about NAB cannot be true. Regardless of the account circumstances, they would have simply advised they cannot provide any of the details.

    There's certainly no way they would have starting rambling on about the account status and lack of account holder details etc.

    • axlfan on 18/03/2021 - 11:57
      +5

      It depends on the person speaking on their behalf in my opinion.

      I was told conflicting stuff by 2-3 support agents from a bank.

    • snirodha on 18/03/2021 - 12:20
      -1

      100 % agree.

    • jay889344 on 19/03/2021 - 09:02
      +6

      So when I went to the branch, I was frantic. I had all the emails with Bank X account details as well as Bank Y scam number and Police event number. The branch rep told me they typically can't provide any details of the account. She went over to the branch manager and they spoke for a few minutes, me watching. He then nodded his head after visibly demonstrating his shock and sadness and she came back telling me they cannot provide any details of who owned etc, but they could tell me it was closed. She then added (perhaps when she shouldn't have) that she oddly enough couldn't see any identification on the account which shows usually even after an account is closed.

      Mod: Edited for privacy

      • MementoMori on 19/03/2021 - 10:59
        +13

        Really makes you wonder if there is an insider at NAB setting up these non-KYC'd accounts… or someone has found a loophole to make them

        I would keep digging at NAB, find out who opened that account and you might find your money

        • Unorthodox on 20/03/2021 - 11:38

          Most likely it was a business account and the ID used were false. Happens a lot especially with identity theft and how often international travelers have their ID stolen or taken in sharehouses etc.
          Quite easy to take a generic "foreigner" passport and set up an account with a telco and then go to a bank either setting up an ABN'd account for contract work as a delivery driver etc.

        • E C on 20/03/2021 - 19:40

          the police will find out from the 100 pts id … the detectives would keep OP updated one assumes.

  • grips on 18/03/2021 - 15:57

    Anybody planning to make large payments for property should look at how this works:
    https://www.rba.gov.au/publications/bulletin/2021/mar/pdf/pr…

  • Tobyseus on 18/03/2021 - 15:59
    +36

    Hey mate,

    Feel for you - almost exact same situation as you, transferred almost 200k to my conveyancers "trust account", only to be told day before settlement that they don't have a trust account.

    Slightly different, it wasn't a different email but an authorised email that we had previously corresponded with - the running theory is that they were watching, then only got in and spoofed IP once it came crunch time.

    Long story short, conveyancers insurance covered settlement + penalties (took 3wks to be sorted), we weren't out of pocket in the end and we are enjoying our place. I hope you get the same result.

    Things to note:

    • police will take their sweet time - I received a call the other day from them about it (over 5mths later)
    • banks will not give you any helpful info while investigation is ongoing, but they will be working to recover your funds - 3 wks of me contacting bank every 2nd day asking for updates, while conveyancers insurance chased me up for updates

    Hope that's helpful - sorry typed quickly on a work break. Feel free to PM me if you'd like to know more.

    • watson4884 on 18/03/2021 - 21:14
      +1

      From what we learnt,
      contact the solicitors or other parties if they request Large amount of money to be transfered..

    • jay889344 on 19/03/2021 - 11:01
      +4

      Thanks Toby! Whilst I'm trying hard not to get my hopes up in the event it doesn't pan out, that is good to hear the conveyancer's insurance covered everything. I feel the developments with the settlement sheet prove its not me who was hacked but either my conveyancer or the other side's conveyancer. Fingers crossed the insurer agrees!

    • SKiZO on 19/03/2021 - 13:46
      +2

      Glad you posted for the OP.

  • drfuzzy on 18/03/2021 - 17:47

    The consumer won't get the money back from the bank. The bank may reimburse if the scammer remotely accessed their computer and initiated the transfer remotely.
    In this instance the consumer has willingly sent the money (albeit to a scammer). This is beyond what the bank will cover, especially for this quantum.
    I think the best case for the consumer is a claim on the insurance of the conveyancer, and argue the conveyancer has exercised due care. However I suspect the insurer will be reluctant to accept liability so be prepared for a legal fight…

  • grimo82 on 18/03/2021 - 21:24

    Sorry to hear mate + a coworker recently lost a similar sum on property development, a mates company got stung on accounts payable, a supplier I deal with same thing….. Hacked and account detail changed on official letter head etc. Seems all too common.

    From what I'm hearing unless you have specific cyber crime insurance it's a very grey area as to who's to blame and is accountable (and costly to challenge).

  • Banana on 18/03/2021 - 23:02
    +18

    I have been checking this post periodically hoping to hear some good news from OP. All other similar scam stories you guys shared are heart-breaking, yet like OP's story, serve a great reminder to the wider community to stay vigilant and look out for the vulnerable ones around us. I have been spreading this story wide and far, to my friends and family about the importance of cyber safety.

    Thank you for all your stories and hope that it works out for you, OP!

    • onetwothreefour on 19/03/2021 - 13:45
      +3

      I'm like you, I keep coming back to the last page of comments and hoping I see some positive/relieved comments saying "I'm glad it all worked out" etc. It hasn't happened yet but I keep my fingers crossed it does.

      • ChocStrawberries on 19/03/2021 - 17:56

        I've been doing the same. OP, I really hope you get your money back! I know that sick feeling when something bad has happened and you have no real control over it. I'm hoping this story has a good outcome.

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