$0 FTTP quotes are back. There are installation fees if you decide to go ahead with it.
Due to the intricacies involved in generating and processing quotes for complex premises, the Group Switch and Area Switch application forms are currently unavailable on our website. We are only accepting applications for some single premises at this time.
Please refer to our website in the future for updates as we continue to optimise the nbn™ Technology Choice Program.
Considering the complexity that must be required to pragmatically automate the quotation of this, cut the devops some slack. Or are you perfect and never make mistakes or underestimate things in your job?
Hate on the NBN in general, sure. But a slight pause with this was understandable.
How do I check which nbn do we have??
This service would've been redundant if we all had FTTH to begin with.
Zero complexity if everyone had FTTP already.
How is this hard? They quote on price per distance + conversion fee of all the current options, FTTC to FTTP, HFC to FTTP, etc.
So a multiplication formula plus one of the 3 or 4 conversion price list.
but they also need to collect personal data and send mails and store the quote in the database. I keep asking myself why they need all of that but this requires some work nevertheless.
How is it hard ?
Working out price going off distance + conversion of current tech is simple right? Too bad that it isn't the case, few more factors than that.
To be fair to the developers, there are a lot of complexities that have been introduced.
Separate data for HFC, FTTN, FTTC, FTTB.
IF there is existing fibre available, if the non ideal topology can be re-used
Distance to the nearest fibre, with a path! -
nbn are likely to wear a lot of remediation costs here. It will not be cheap. Would have loved to have seen the Telstra execs faces after they sold the CAN for the remediation costs. "I cant believe they fell for that", "even better than a dodgy used car salesmen", "when do I get my bonus" were likely to be the comments…
This whole exercise is how to build a NBN in the most expensive way possible.
1. Build an expensive to operate, under performing network on old expensive to modify technology.
2. Over build piece meal with a new tech, but ensure that it is not optimised for long term low cost.
3. Ensure you do not install any new tech, (XP-PON2), so your can go to step 4 before completion
4. Collect bonuses for delivery, even if you have not.
5. goto Step 1
@Magus: Not 1/2 as funny as the looks on the OPTU$ exec's faces…given that NBNco threw that HFC network into the bin before using any of it.
@TheMoose: Oh come on, they did use Optus HFC for NBN, in ONE Brisbane suburb, before realising how crap Optus maintained it's HFC lol
@bio: Don't waste our time with this. See post below. 'U' is a letter, 'You' is used to refer to the person or people that the speaker is addressing.
@tarutso: Sorry if you were offended but I thought that you may actually not be aware of the difference. "U" is obviously intentional or just laziness, there is no point letting them know.
What were u using before nbn and how speed were u getting?
I get 60Mbps on wireless. NBN (FTTN) couldn't provide 10.
I'll be getting a quote, because I don't think wireless is upgradeable,whereas 100Mbps isn't going to cut it for long the way we consume (aka waste) bandwidth.
As unfortunate as it is, NBN is our only chance for fast internet in Australia, and from personal experience, they've done a terible job so far.
Edit: I've just seen the prices being quoted, and I won't bother applying. 60Mbps is fine :)
Next time I move, I don't care how many bedrooms the home has, I want to see a speedtest.
As unfortunate as it is, NBN is our only chance for fast internet in Australia, and from personal experience, they've done a terible job so far.
You have Malcolm Turnbull to thank for this.
we blew it
Even with NBN in its mangled form, Kevin Rudd indirectly saved our economy by starting it.
If the NBN was not built (which it would not have been…) then we'd be so screwed for COVID19 lockdowns because old internet tech (my ADSL2+ degraded to unstable 4/1 speeds) would not have sustained speeds necessary even for ONE person to WFH.
@SlickMick: there you go…not everyone in Oz will have wireless else 5GG would be the next APT. NBN is still a boom for people of ADSL2+ like me…I was on 3MbPS to 55. Can't curse NBN (FTTN).
But if you can't get 10 on FTTN, that's something the ISP has to fix…move you to a close node.
having said that, NBN is still one of the biggest scam on taxpayer money…but when living in a political jungle…sometimes you have to accept being a mushroom (live in dark and fed shit)
@SlickMick: Hey SlickMick,
I'm curious to know whether the '10' you got was confirmed by NBN or you were just embellishing a little? NBN have a guarantee of 25mb connection to all premises, and if you can prove that your connection is worse than this, then they will replace/upgrade for free. It may be worth going down this path if it is truly that bad.
@danbyrne: Wasn't embellished at all. That was never mentioned or offered to me. (First I'm hearing of it.)
I don't recall ever having access to NBN support though - my compaints were only to my ISP, which was Telstra, becuase I figured they were the only ones able to fix the problem.
I doubt that I would have gone to the hassle of aborting NBN and getting a wireless antennea for a max 60mbps if NBN could have got me 1/2 way there.
I currently have Bigpond Cable 100/5 for $70/month and when they eventually kick me off I'll be paying $80-$90/month for 100/20 NBN.
For this the taxpayer is footed with a $50Billion bill…
I currently have Bigpond Cable 100/5 for $70/month and when they eventually kick me off I'll be paying $80-$90/month for 100/20 NBN.
For this the taxpayer is footed with a $50Billion bill…
Well you would have had the option to go 250/100 for every single household if the labor plan went ahead, and would have been done.. ironically, faster, cheaper and sooner
Faster and sooner (because FTTP and no 2 year delay making new plans from FTTP to HFC+FTTN+FTTC rubbish)
Cheaper because no need to buy HFC, FTTN and FTTC equipment.
I had ADSL2+ 4/1 for $60/month.
Resorted to $5 Kogan SIMs and hotspot (new-signup plans) because no option to go cable in my area.
Now I'm on 50/20 HFC, with the option to pay $16K to "upgrade" to FTTP.
Well you would have had the option to go 250/100 for every single household if the labor plan went ahead
And no-one would've bought it, most people are on 50Mb/s plans or less.
ironically, faster, cheaper and sooner
No it wouldn't. Conroy's numbers were guesses at best.
The way I see it, each quote is how much wastage the Liberals have wasted per house.
Putting it in bold doesn't make this any less wrong.
Most of the market did not want it, as demonstrated by NBN uptake rates, even for those who have access to FTTP and still choose 25Mb plans.
Labor came out with a gold-plated solution and forced us to pay for it. Liberals butchered that and gave us a silver plated solution which we still had to pay for. It's a lose-lose.
Over 50% of internet usage is now mobile. The whole idea of a fixed line NBN was a white elephant from the start.
@1st-Amendment: What a load of rot.
If instead of paying multitudes of lawyers, bankers and telcos billions, if they'd paid working men and women to trench and run FTTP, it would have been done better and cheaper than the half job they did using FTTN, which involves added complexities like power and limited UPS at each last mile distribution box, maintenance and upkeep of fans, batteries and racks of modems, all baking in the aussie sun, let alone needing to be swapped out (they call this upgrades) which add cost and barely last another year or two.
Original plan didn't have to include everyone as the last few percent represented 1000x the cost of the majority, but that'd be unfair and downright un-australian.
Everyone should have had fibre at the beginning, not be stuck with no shows, go slows and rebuilds every few years.
And if all people need is 12/1Mbps they could have bought it and paid less, the decisions on plans, tiers and pricing have never been fixed. Everything can change to suit the consumer, and given the way they funded the whole thing (making future users pay the rates current users were for lesser services) it would have been far easier to meet everyone's needs with a physical network costing something nearer to zero maintenance and capable of serious bandwidth.
Most of the market did not want it, as demonstrated by NBN uptake rates, even for those who have access to FTTP and still choose 25Mb plans.
Labor came out with a gold-plated solution and forced us to pay for it. Liberals butchered that and gave us a silver plated solution which we still had to pay for. It's a lose-lose.Over 50% of internet usage is now mobile. The whole idea of a fixed line NBN was a white elephant from the start.
25Mbps plans are only suitable for people who either:
1) Do not work (housewives/children) in a digital world
2) Only one person in the household
I Work-From-Home permanently, same as my family member
Internet usage for us is now 95% fixed line. The other 5% is Google Maps and Spotify while driving.
It was 95% mobile before when my fixed line did not work as required (4/1Mbps) and insufficient for even one person's usage.
Have some water, and dilute your Kool-Aid
25Mbps plans are only suitable for …
Yet millions of homes choose this. And no amount of bold text changes that fact.
Internet usage for us is now 95% fixed line.
The key words here being "For us".
What is good for you is not necessarily good for me. Once you understand that, your socialist dreams all fall over.
@1st-Amendment: TurnCOST has cost AU very dearly. His plan has proven to be more costly, wasteful and damaging than anybody in their IT illiterate world could think about. He had a job to destroy the NBN by Mr. Abbott and he did the best he could to do just that.
A full fiber solution, well as much as the original plan at 93% of the populace, would have been completed much more cheaply than what we've had to pay out to date. There were also many, many, many economic opportunities that have been lost due to the inferior build. The tele-health is one area alone that should be much advanced, as well as the work from home situation. It doesn't take much imagination to discover what else would have been a real benefit of the original plan, that is, unless you are an LNP member, then you have zero vision.
I currently have Bigpond Cable 100/5 for $70/month and when they eventually kick me off I'll be paying $80-$90/month for 100/20 NBN.
- 1st-AmendmentWhat is good for you is not necessarily good for me. Once you understand that, your socialist dreams all fall over.
I was on 4/1 Mbps ADSL2+ with no option to upgrade to Telstra or Optus Cable prior to the NBN (even in its mangled form)
My HFC drops out every time there's a big thunderstorm (house electricity and power is fine though)
This wouldn't have happened if it was FTTP.
Did you even read Malcolm Turnbull's Cost Benefit Analysis by Korda Mentha and where the assumptions come from?
@1st-Amendment: You do realize the "gold plated" labor plan is still the end goal of the Malcom Turnbull's roll out right? NBNco rolling out the MTM admits FTTP will be needed one day, Malcom argued FTTN would be cheaper and faster in the short term and then we could tear out the network when we needed FTTP in their opinion.
The labour cost is the major expense, not the hardware. In the case of the MTM the FTTN infrastructure is more expensive in the long term due to operating expenditure. Those ugly Node boxes have to be actively cooled and electrified, the hardware inside has an expected life of 7 years. To cover the footprint aimed for we'd need 10s of thousands of them and we even had to use new copper lines to get it working in many areas. So while it appeared cheaper in the laughable costings report Malcom commissioned the deal gets worse the longer we operate it. It can only begin to seem cheaper if you sweep the retirement of FTTN and the final roll out years from now under rug.
Another consequence of the non "gold plated" MTM solution is there is no consistent service outside of the FTTP footprint, NBNco cannot offer its highest tier of services to most of Australia including businesses. You can't just look at the take up rates for 25mbit/50mbit and conclude everyone on those connections is satisfied, a lot of them are dropped into those tiers because of FTTN. While not everyone is going to opt for 100/40 NBNco loses countless customers they cannot serve the highest tiers, businesses would gladly pay huge rates for 1000 or 2000mbit connections. A fully FTTP network would have been easier and cheaper to maintain while being far more profitable for NBNco and more productive for customers.
This is why you don't half ass infrastructure, it will be with us for decades. Australia should have had the best. Luckily I have at least 40mbit up so I can upload large video files for clients painlessly but as a result I have no certainty if I ever have to move.
Their "devops" are hopeless and should have admitted they didn't know what they were doing on a geospatial project. They failed to do their due diligence and project risk management. Which on a project of this scale is unforgivable. This is what happens when you hire project managers (with no technical knowledge) instead of technical experts.
As someone who works in Geospatial development the accuracy of the national address database has always been a very well known problem across the industry. Even uni students learn about the inaccuraccies in address data! To claim it was a mistake or blame the supplier (who clearly disclaimer all their data), is disingenuous in the extreme. https://www.itnews.com.au/news/nbn-still-grappling-with-inac…
int value = rnd.Next(0, 100000);
There, production ready code done in under 3 seconds.
What a joke.
Get a letter saying we are going to get disconnected from HFC on the 12th.
Called Optus on the 1st to get connected to NBN HFC.
NBN says no new HFC connections.
Optous says order not in system.
2 x copper lines -> not sure what's going to happen to that. Have customers that still want faxes and fax confirmations…
No optus 5g in area. I'm lucky to be able to make voice calls on Optus - ditched that ages ago (and Amaysim).
Tried the NBN technology choice, no choice for my location.
/
Upper North Shore Sydney -> going to have ask neighbour that may have been conected to run cat 5e over the fence.
Or dig my own trench…
Thank you local politicians (that will never get voted out)…..
there is a hold on new HFC orders for 6-7 months as they dont have NTDs. you will be given extension on current service
Is the 6-7 months confirmed?
@Twix: From what I have seen it is just a cease sale until stock of the NTDs are back, so that timeline is not guaranteed. But Bud is right your provider is able to extend you past the mandatory disconnection date
@Twix: off the NBN website.
https://www.nbnco.com.au/utility/temporarily-limiting-the-nu…
Not accepting new HFC connections.
We had contacted Optus to migrate before 2nd February. Find out they never submitted the order and NBN stopped new connections at 7pm, 2nd of Feb…
Your current provider may delay your disconnect date. Moved from 12th Feb to September some time now…
@jimbo jones: You had 1 job Optus 🤦♂️
Is your NBN HFC install in September or the legacy disconnection date at your home in September?
Vote against them, they're entirely too comfortable in that area.
Liberals?
If you need fax it's best to switch to a virtualized fax system where it's done over the internet and incoming faxes come in as emails
Nobody needs fax. This is a good sign that the people in charge have no idea what they are doing.
@1st-Amendment: FX Desk for wholesale rate seems to want us to sign confirmation notes for trades…
We have to call them and for a quote.
then sign the quote for them to make the deal.
At least we speak to somebody, so we don't get the business email compromise.
Some private bankers and traders will buy, sell and move large amounts of money on your email say-so..
One of the major customers still faxes orders to us and we email back when the stuff is going to arrive.
Also faxes us consignment notes and picking slips…
Our fax machine converts the faxes into emails and sends it to us via email…
Nobody needs fax. This is a good sign that the people in charge have no idea what they are doing.
Fund Managers and large traders still use it
I have no clue why, but I can tell you they still use fax, which is then scanned in somehow (might be a virtualised fax system)
VERY annoying because it's pixelated as hell and you can't see much details at all
Source: I used to work for a custodian (for superfunds)
@cwongtech: I'm well aware that people still use fax, the Justice and Health departments are heavily entrenched with 1970's processes and rely on them. The point is that in the age of the internet, there is no justifiable reason for fax. If their CEO's or CIO's had a clue they would have purged that inefficient/unreliable/insecure technology from their businesses years ago.
@1st-Amendment: Even in 2018 I had clients that communicated via fax. I asked them why and they had simply assumed it was more convenient for us, meanwhile we assumed it was their preferred system!
@1st-Amendment: Freaking clinics and hospitals uses fax for referral letters. The health system is so outdated that they still rely on Fax.
$16,401 to upgrade my premise from HFC to FTTP. Yeah, nah.
best time to plant a tree
What am I missing here?
I’m guessing the tree grows up to the over hanging HFC cable and forces them to change to an underground technology? Am I right?
$12k to go from FTTN to FTTP.
Looks like I'm stuck on this shitty 20mbps speed until 5G Home is available in my area.
$16K for me.
$16K for me as well.
@sathutu: $16k, same i wonder if the price would go down if multiple people along the street also applied tho ?
I have FTTP but use 5G. While there are some downsides of 5G (CGNAT and 50ms latency) cant beat 300mbit download speeds for $70 a month.
hate u in so many ways
@twist3d: What if I tell you I have 300mbit (although it is more often >450mbit) with 12-20ms latency for $40 a month? iiNet cable in Geelong, Ballarat and Mildura.
Very much considering doing that same thing. I'm getting 13ms latency and 600Mbps download speed on 5G. Only reason I haven't already is because it would cost $5 extra per month.
@triviums: Wouldn't that latency be from you to the speedtest (or another) server? I get 10ms to Sydney and 20ms to Melbourne on FTTC NBN
@CheapoJohnno: Yes it is. It's seems I'm getting similar latency to non-FTTP nbn, which is awesome for 5G
Starlink it is!
I am also awaiting this with interest.
@nedski: Starlink is already in beta. Reports are it's:
Anyone considering paying $10,000 for one of these NBN upgrades because their internet is awful might want to wait and see…
https://www.slashgear.com/elon-musk-shares-starlink-expansio…
@ItsMeAgro: Starlink won’t have the total user capacity to compete with anything other than satellite and the most marginal fixed wireless connections. FW or 4G/5G will be cheaper and better for most and if you have larger total bandwidth requirements any sort of fixed line will be better, even crap FTTN.
@ItsMeAgro: Also Starlink consumes quite a bit of power. One Youtube video was saying his one consumed almost 100W while not actively pushing data
Might be ready as early as late 2021
Let's see, Starlink needs 40000 satellites in LEO to make this work, last year they launched 800. I'm sure there some scale up opportunity here, but 39000 satellites in one year sounds bit optimistic to me.
might want to wait and see…
Yeah I'm not waiting til 2030. One accident and this schedule gets blown out of the water. Oh wait, what's this: https://www.industryweek.com/technology-and-iiot/article/219…
@ItsMeAgro: I just looked it up:
Starlink averaging 60-110ms latency (ok for web, not great for video or gaming)
Bandwidth average is around 60 -100Mb which is very useful
Cost is $99USD/month ($130AUD) + $660 AUD for the dish which is expensive
Unless a truck knocks over your node
$5,459 inc. GST for FTTN to FTTP
In comparison to yours it isn't terrible but still too much.
$15,903 for me. Damn nah
My quote was $2,800 to change from FTTC to FTTP.
Another low FTTC-P quote.
Mine was $3,066. Nowhere near as bad as I thought it would, but still unjustifiable for my requirements at the moment
$2795 for me FTTC to FTTP. Pit is in the nature strip directly out front of my house, in an obstructed straight line to the existing HFC termination. Distance can’t be more than 8 metres tops. Not sure how it could be simpler or easier!
@Cyan9,
Same here. FTTC to FTTP they want $2895. I'm not paying them that for 4hrs work and $300 worth of hardware. (Whirlpool Forums said so)
The pit is exactly 21m from the footpath to the house phone point and there's a 25mm PVC conduit feeding the copper line from the pit to the house.
They can get fracked and the Liberals are fracking dead to me.
mine is @2933 for FTTC to FTTP
Same here. Pit is literally up against my front fence. Let's save the hassle and put my wifi in the pit for $0 :D
Mine was about that too!
But think about how cheap it will be for your neighbours if you subsidise it!
$11,xxx
I hate the liberals
They hate you too (sorry couldn't help it 😃)
Do any of the successful ones have any feelings?
It's not personal of course, they hate all Australians really. Unless they are a donor or in a marginal electorate.
Is any party planning for gigabit internet? Seriously will vote primarily for that.
Labor were in 2013. Australia voted for crap internet.
I hate the liberals
How much of my money did Labor offer to steal from me to pay for your Internet connection?
I wonder if the useless muppets at NBN can keep it online this time