How to Prove 3rd Car's Fault in Pile-up

Lbeesider on 09/01/2021 - 23:19
Last edited 11/01/2021 - 19:04 by 1 other user

While driving in the middle lane on a highway on a nice sunny day, all of a sudden a Mercedes in front of me comes to a full stop, making me do emergency braking. I come to a stop and while stationary, an old Toyota behind me smashes into me and pushes my car into the Mercedes. My Honda Civic has the most damage, coolant leaking out, front bumper falling off, car smashed from front and rear. The Mercedes has some surface damage on the rear bumper but not too much, and Toyota hasn't got much damage either but its airbags deployed. My car is the most affected and had to be towed.

Crash order: Mercedes <— Honda Civic <— Toyota

The Mercedes has comprehensive insurance. I have 3rd party. The Toyota has nothing, as the driver said. The Toyota driver gave his phone number but didn't give any further details, he's not picking up my phone calls and blocked me on WhatsApp. I took a photo of his car with the license plate (shows registered).

As there were no injuries, the police were informed but didn't attend the scene. Even though it happened on a weekend with lots of cars around, no one came forward as a witness.

I understand the Mercedes' insurance would be claiming from my insurance, but what do I do? How can I prove it's all the Toyota's fault and how do I make him pay for the loss of my car ($4-$5k market value)? Can I sue him to get some money back? How do I make the Mercedes deal with him too so my premiums wouldn't go up?

I also don't know what to do with the car as it's now at a scrapyard, towing to which was around $370, and every day the car stays there costs about $27 a day.

Lot's of questions, really frustrated and still in a bit of a shock. Would really appreciate any help.

Car photos

Update:
The police got in touch with the Toyota driver and provided me with his contact details. Despite that, he went into hiding and continues to ignore my calls and messages. He has an overseas driver's license.

I got my car out from the holding yard - it still runs fine. Just parked it nearby, now waiting for my insurer to come back to me. My policy includes up to 5k payout in case of an accident with an uninsured driver.

The towies charged me $400. Bastards. I don't understand why they didn't offer me to tow the car to my place instead of their holding yard. And given the car is drivable, I didn't need their service at all. They are vultures making money on people who can't think clearly due to being in a state of shock.

Automotive Car Insurance Insurance

Comments

      • Frankensnore on 12/01/2021 - 13:58

        Do you still think it was better not to install given what has happened?

      • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2021 - 14:54
        +3

        Leaving stuff out will attract thieves, not a properly installed dashcam. It hardly even noticeable unless you look for it. Resell value for dashcam is not worth much so I don't see a point a thieves would just steal your dashcam.

        If you don't leave anything valuable in car, the most is a smash screen cost compare to a crash.

        • capslock janitor on 12/01/2021 - 20:27

          He should get a HD/FHD one and be content.

  • juki on 11/01/2021 - 19:37
    +1

    set fire to the toyota driver's home to smoke him out, with a bit of luck he wont have insured his house either

  • smpantsonfire on 11/01/2021 - 20:45
    +1

    Sorry to see you in this position, but I'm impressed by the back of the Mercedes versus the front of your car.

    Good luck getting coin from the Toyota driver

    • ribze1 on 11/01/2021 - 20:53
      +1

      Yeah the merc looks great, just a new bumper really (maybe parking sensors too).

  • ribze1 on 11/01/2021 - 20:53
    +3

    Extended third party should be compulsory.
    It's BS how often i read the same old stories about people getting hit by an uninsured driver and then doing the runner or saying they have no money.

  • outlander on 11/01/2021 - 20:56
    +1

    Did the mercedes driver say why he stopped in the middle of a highway?

    • beesider on 11/01/2021 - 21:17

      They said someone slammed the brakes in front of them. A chain reaction, pretty much.

  • bmerigan on 11/01/2021 - 22:22

    The Merc's insurance will send a bill to you, you give that to your insurance along with the details of the 3rd car, then your insurance will chase the other person for the money.

  • spb on 11/01/2021 - 22:37

    It's a long shot but see if your insurance will cover cost of towing vehicle.

  • brad1-8tsi on 11/01/2021 - 23:52

    The Mercedes claims from the Toyota driver because he was the most rearward car and pushed you into the Merc.

    As it stands, your problem is getting money from the Toyota dude

  • linhlink on 12/01/2021 - 02:55
    +2

    Hey OP, sorry about what happend to you, I was in the same boat couple years ago but got out with good results:

    • I was uninsured.

    • Car at front stopped suddently, I did manage to brake on time but other car rear ended me, which forced mine hit the car at front.

    • The FC (front car)'s insurance company wanted to claim all the damage from me, while the RC (rear car)'s insurance company only agreed to pay the rear damage of my car, which made no sense because that damage putted my car as written-off anyway.

    • No insurance, and have to do all the calling back and forth made me quite depressed, should have gotten myself atleast a 3rd party insurance.

    • I managed to do some research and convince the FC driver to sign a witness report that: He only felt one impact, not two, that make the RC is the one at fault for everything.

    • Lucky that both FC and RC are insured with AAMI, in the end I did not need to pay foranything, and got cash settlement for my written-off car.

    Hope this help you in some way.

    One more thing, my car was towed and parked at the towing company location for 2 months, while I was trying fix the issue, the fee was about $400 something but the towing company actually helped me contact other parrty insurance company and giving some good advices. I did not pay anything to them since I won the case afterward.

    • sulmar on 13/01/2021 - 23:51
      +2

      Might have used up all your luck for a good while. Seems everything went your way, even the damn towing company lol

  • RedDevil860 on 12/01/2021 - 10:20

    The towey cost me $400. Bastards….sigh..take some responsibility for yourself. Happy to save money by using 3rd party only but when service isnt same as comprehensive, start complaining.

    • baskinghobo on 12/01/2021 - 10:47

      OP could have many reasons why he didn't get comprehensive. My insurance charges me $1500 a year for comprehensive insurance because of my age.

      • RedDevil860 on 12/01/2021 - 12:12

        I get that. Not judging why he got 3rd party. I am saying you cant expect the same level of service. When I was a student, I had 3rd party too but I was well aware of risks of having 3rd party. As soon as I could afford comprehensive, I did it to avoid those risks. We should be responsible for any service we decide to take upon. Don't blame the tow truck driver. Also, car was still drivable doesn't make it road worthy. "My Honda Civic has the most damage, coolant leaking out, front bumper falling off, car smashed from front and rear" - This says it all.

      • Drewbo on 12/01/2021 - 15:14

        I feel for you mate. I'm not looking forward to getting into my 70's.

      • toomuchdogfur on 13/01/2021 - 10:38
        -3

        When I was younger, I asked NRMA for a quote to insure my $6k car.

        They quoted me $10k annually.

    • beesider on 12/01/2021 - 11:39

      The towies didn't disclose their fees upon pick up. The only thing they told was "it'll be paid by insurance". The same towies offered to tow the car to my home which is twice the distance than the crash site for a mere $100. $400 is a ripoff rate for a car that still runs.

      Compulsory insurance wasn't an option as we had a learner driver at that time.

      • RedDevil860 on 12/01/2021 - 12:16

        Been in the same scenario as you. It's unfortunate but at the end of the day, its our responsibility. Not sure if you asked but when it happened to me I asked them to tow to my house and they did it. I get that 3rd party saves money but it comes with added risk unfortunately. No point cursing at the towies.

        • beesider on 12/01/2021 - 14:32
          -1

          When picking up the car from them, I was told they tow to their yard only when the car has comprehensive insurance. Mine hadn't, and that was voiced multiple times. So the towie acted against their own rules.

      • cadwalader on 12/01/2021 - 14:12
        +2

        Legally they are required to disclose their fees upon pick up and when you sign the tow authorization. You would also have a copy of the tow authorization form which would need to include the fees and the terms and conditions.

        https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/00…

        https://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/safety-rules/safe-driving/a…

        If they have breeched any of these regulations, you should probably escalate this to the respective authorities.

        https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/__data/assets/pdf_file/00…

      • RedDevil860 on 12/01/2021 - 20:29

        Doesn't really matter if the car runs. By the pics, it wasn't roadworthy after the accident. These things always happen. Its same when getting an electrician or plumber. If you are lucky you will get an honest tradie who goes above and beyond to help. In other cases, some will just treat it as a job resulting in you taking the hit. No point cursing at them. We live and learn.

      • kiitos on 12/01/2021 - 23:36
        +2

        Many (most?) comprehensive insurance policies automatically include cover for learner drivers.

  • Frankensnore on 12/01/2021 - 13:47
    +2

    Totally agreed that towing company are all bastards, I share exactly the same experience as yours when they tow my car to their yard.

  • adn on 12/01/2021 - 13:53

    This is why after my P plates and upgrade to a car worth more then $5000. I get comprehensive insurance.

  • studentl0an on 12/01/2021 - 15:37

    You should look into your states road side assistance if you want to a certain amount of tows per year without paying extra for it (up to 5 a year with RACV, check with your states provider to check the conditions with them). It's like $10 a month for peace of mind if you break down anywhere. It also includes yard costs.

    If you don't have comprehensive insurance then IMO roadside assistance is a necessity, even if just for the peace of mind.

    • beesider on 12/01/2021 - 16:45

      I have roadside assistance from Budget Direct but it doesn't include tows after car crashes. Aren't they all the same?

      • studentl0an on 12/01/2021 - 18:00
        +1

        https://www.budgetdirect.com.au/roadside-assistance-australi…

        I think you could have got a free tow. Might need someone to chime in if in the past they were denied. I know you say your car was driveable but I think that's subjective especially when safety is concerned. I'd be very worried about damage to the cooling system with a hit that hard to the front. Your radiator is probably the only thing structural holding the front end together.

        I just asked a lawyer for a quick opinion after mentioning the bullet points and they said once you signed the form letting them tow your car was the point of no return of getting a bill for the tow.

        It is however worth calling Budget Direct and mentioning you have roadside assistance but forgot to mention it when your car was last towed, and ask BD if you could send them the bill to have them pay it.

  • pulpfiction on 12/01/2021 - 16:03
    +1

    My only thought would be to see if there's any security cameras in the area? Looking at the images it seems like they were taken near a restaurant. Slight chance they'll have cameras somewhere. So sad to hear about how shit some people can be. Good luck!

  • [Deactivated] on 12/01/2021 - 16:48
    +1

    Same thing happened to be, I was the Toyota driver, uninsured, both of them logged claims with Thier insurer. They both chased me. I've learnt not to be uninsured no more. But not sure what happens in this case when ignoring calls.

    • bazingaa on 13/01/2021 - 01:21

      what was the outcome ?

    • elgrande on 13/01/2021 - 21:20

      Did they catch you?

    • beesider on 14/01/2021 - 06:46

      Why didn't you just run away and go in denial? Seems so easy.

  • cbastien on 12/01/2021 - 17:42

    I know someone who end up in the exact same situation with budget. They will cover the car in front and they will pay you up to 5kaud and you keep the car. You then choose if you use the money to repair or buy a new one. But their situation was worse than yours as their car was worth more than 5k and it was more than 5k to repair. Next time take a better insurance than budget ! You re just lucky your car is worth less than 5k

  • p1 ama on 12/01/2021 - 23:58
    +3

    You have no real option aside from taking him to the equivalent of VCAT in your state. Your insurance will payout the Mercedes guy so that's a non-issue, the only issue is how much you can recover for damages to your car from the Toyota guy.

    I hate lecturing people after a mess (so hopefully you don't take it as such), but the real motto of the story is to get comprehensive insurance. If you did, your car would probably be getting fixed by now and you'd be back on the road pretty soon.

    • beesider on 14/01/2021 - 06:44

      The car is a write-off, so even with comprehensive I would've been at a loss. The insurance won't pay out the Covid market value of the car, plus there's excess.

      • Make it so on 14/01/2021 - 18:43

        Always go for agreed-value, not market value. Often it doesn't even cost all that much more to insure at what the car is actually worth, compared to market value. That way, in situations like this, at least you won't make a loss. And comprehensive insurance means it's up to the insurer to chase the person at fault.

        I am inclined to say that, if the owner avoids you, you need to go back to the police. Make sure to state as well that they are a potential flight risk (somewhat less due to COVID perhaps), and ask what can be done to ensure they do not leave the country without paying you.

        • p1 ama on 15/01/2021 - 22:58

          I am inclined to say that, if the owner avoids you, you need to go back to the police. Make sure to state as well that they are a potential flight risk (somewhat less due to COVID perhaps), and ask what can be done to ensure they do not leave the country without paying you.

          Police won't care. You have the other guy's details, so it's a civil matter at this point. The police might say they'll contact him or whatever, but they won't really be able to do much.

  • harthagan on 13/01/2021 - 02:24

    Was in an identical scenario many years ago. Long story short, I never got a cent out of the uninsured driver who hit me and caused me to hit the car in front.

    The only difference was that in my case, all three cars were uninsured so we all basically got what we deserved (even though it was the 3rd drivers fault) because he was the one who wasn't able to stop in time.

    Cut your losses and write it up to a learning experience. That's the best you are going to walk away with im afraid to say.

  • The-Kremlin on 13/01/2021 - 04:35
    +1

    Typical Camry driver.

  • DGNR8 on 13/01/2021 - 10:35
    +1

    Can anyone confirm if you can deny the towie and leave the car on the side of the road, and just arrange your own towie say the following day?

    • derrida derider on 13/01/2021 - 13:40

      Dunno how legal it is, but I've seen plenty of dented cars by the roadside where it is obvious that someone has done just this. And they often take a lot longer than the following day to collect them.

  • MrFunSocks on 13/01/2021 - 20:37

    You give your insurance the details of the person that hit you, the person you got pushed into/hit, and your account of it. They do the rest. It’s their job to get the car repaired and get their money, not yours.

    • Make it so on 14/01/2021 - 18:45

      That sounds reasonable, given that the insurer would want to try to get the Toyota driver to pay for the damage if they are at fault. Doesn't hurt to ask the insurance what they can do in terms of chasing the Toyota driver.

  • [Deactivated] on 13/01/2021 - 23:53

    Let your insurance sort it… They'll be responsible for front guys damage and will chase after back guy on your behalf anyway

  • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2021 - 01:02
    +1

    I wouldn't bet that your car is drivable. If you have another stack, what will your insurance say about it?

    Drivable not the same as roadworthy or safe or … they will find something.

    • beesider on 14/01/2021 - 06:51

      At least this means I could've driven the car to a nearby street and then called a cheap towie of my choice.

      • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2021 - 22:01

        indeed. :(

  • Eeples on 15/01/2021 - 10:51

    I think you may have been following too close to the merc.

    if there was a bigger gap you would not have ‘emergency braked’ which may have caused the Toyota to crash into you.

    If there was plenty of time after you were stationary then the Toyota hit you…. you should have turned your hazard lights on.

    Do you have much experience driving?

    Could you not have changed lanes when the merc braked? (Easier to do when you are following at a safe distance)

    Why did the merc stop?

    • beesider on 15/01/2021 - 13:00

      13 years driving experience. I'm always keeping twice or thrice the distance than most Sydney drivers do. That didn't help as Merc's brakes are incredibly good compared to my old Honda Civic. Merc really came to a standstill in just 2 or 3 seconds - it has AMG brakes and low profile tyres after all. I had fairly new good tyres, fairly new brake pads - less than 10k kms mileage on both - but that didn't help.

      After I became stationary there was maybe a second or two before Toyota slammed into me. Didn't have time for anything.

      Changing lanes wasn't an option as this happened too quickly and in a quite heavy traffic. I'm not a former race car driver with a crazy quick reaction.

      • Ughhh on 15/01/2021 - 13:48

        I'm always keeping twice or thrice the distance

        How many cars worth is that?

        • beesider on 16/01/2021 - 04:16

          It depends on the speed, can't really tell how many cars is that. There's something like a 3-second gap between cars.

      • Eeples on 15/01/2021 - 15:32

        Mmmm, well you actually did stop in time so maybe you were following at an okay distance; and the Toyota driver wasn’t.

        Did you ever find out why the Merc driver stopped quickly in the middle lane of the highway?

        Was it in response to traffic banking up?

        • beesider on 16/01/2021 - 04:05

          The Merc driver said someone slammed the brakes in front of them but then took off

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join