Do you/have you live(d) near powerlines (transmission towers)?

moomilky on 30/12/2020 - 18:17
Last edited 04/01/2021 - 15:58

I'm thinking about buying a house that's a little over 200m away from some powerlines (transmission towers, not the normal timber ones in the front of the street).

I'm convinced from what I've read that links to cancer risks are either negligible at this distance or not valid.

I'd like to know if there are other things to consider if you live near them. Noises, pollution, interference, etc

Anyone live(d) near them have any input?

Edit: Just want to make it more clear - I'm interested in annoyances, not cancer risks

For those who are interested and/or for future reference, I took a reading from the street, 2 houses closer to the transmission towers. It fluctuated between 0.19 and 0.22 milligauss, which is very safe.

A reading from my lounge room where I currently live, with my phone in hand and TV on was between 0.01 and 0.06.

Reading from near my WiFi router, with phone in hand was between 0.06 and 0.13

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Quantumcat on 30/12/2020 - 18:39
    +31

    Yes I do. I nearly couldn't get a loan (if they are too close you can't get a loan, but they measured the distance and they were far enough away by a few metres). It is fantastic, because we got an awesome house for cheap (a few people tried to buy it in the year before we got it but when the bank said the powerlines were a concern they pulled out) plus there's a lovely green belt behind the house with cycling paths. There's zero noise or any other problems from the lines.

    • moomilky on 30/12/2020 - 20:35

      That's good to hear!

    • FoxJump on 30/12/2020 - 22:27
      +1

      Sounds like Magdala Rd

    • Scrooge McDuck on 01/01/2021 - 00:24
      +18

      Do you have any super powers?

      • FireRunner on 02/01/2021 - 15:29
        +6

        Where do you think she got her name from?

    • [Deactivated] on 01/01/2021 - 07:22

      Are you HeMan ?

      • djmm on 03/01/2021 - 17:48
        +1

        What's wrong with sheman

    • Analytical Therapist on 01/01/2021 - 12:26
      +1

      I got my land cheap because the previous owners bought the land for cash (i know what were they thinking) and couldn't secure a loan for the house build because no LMI would touch it. i had 25% deposit so no need for LMI.

    • Analytical Therapist on 01/01/2021 - 12:28

      Did your REA try and hide the fact about the powerlines? The one i went through didn't mention them until we were 2 minutes away from the block haha.

      • Quantumcat on 01/01/2021 - 12:30

        Same here. But they're easy to see as soon as you look at any map so they wouldn't have much luck hiding them

        • Analytical Therapist on 01/01/2021 - 12:32

          Exactly, i knew about them before i entered the REA office. I intentionally lowballed him due to the powerlines and was pleasantly surprised when the owners accepted.

          • Quantumcat on 01/01/2021 - 12:35
            +1

            @Analytical Therapist: Nice! They probably had problems selling like mine did and were happy to have an offer lol
            It never hurts to try a lowball (if you don't mind walking away). I know someone who got a property 100k cheaper than advertised for because it was a divorce settlement and they legally had to take the best offer within X number of weeks of it being listed and that was their only offer
            Anyway mine: (mod: removed URL)

            • Analytical Therapist on 01/01/2021 - 12:38
              +1

              @Quantumcat: Same, the previous owners of the land had it for just over a year and it had been on the market for 3 months. I'm pretty sure they just wanted to offload the land to buy elsewhere. Here is mine: https://ibb.co/7vH0z3b

            • Lichen6420 on 01/01/2021 - 16:11
              +3

              @Quantumcat: There is of course the flip side that when you eventually go to sell the same perception issues exists re the powerlines and this lowers your price.

              However if you got a kickass house for 100k less than an equivalent property and the powerlines don't bother you then that is a win in my book.

            • Intoxicoligist on 01/01/2021 - 18:47

              @Quantumcat: Heads up the blocked out area still shows visible on PC :)

              • Quantumcat on 01/01/2021 - 18:52

                @Intoxicoligist: Is this true or are you joking? Someone said something similar last time I blocked part of a picture with my phone

                • Intoxicoligist on 01/01/2021 - 18:56

                  @Quantumcat: Pretty shit joke if so. I'd post the name of the street but I dont want to out you. It's A****** Cl if that is enough to convince you.

                  • Quantumcat on 01/01/2021 - 19:01
                    +2

                    @Intoxicoligist: Asked mods to remove the link. Maybe next time I will take a screenshot of the blocked photo.

  • paraneoplastic on 30/12/2020 - 18:39
    +24

    Even though there isn't a proven deteriment to health. There is a general public impression that there is one, making them hard to sell and even rent (easier than selling though).

    • joungs on 02/01/2021 - 02:26

      Any idea what mechanism they can cause an issue to your health? Only thing I can think of would be the noise, can't imagine any issues with radiation from them.

      • Boostland on 02/01/2021 - 06:49
        -7

        Many years ago they used herbicides similar to agent orange, now glyphosate is used
        Several health issues can stem from those.

        • FireRunner on 02/01/2021 - 18:25
          +1

          What does herbicides have to do with power lines?

          • abb on 03/01/2021 - 20:11

            @FireRunner: It's possible they spray the maintenance access track? Seems like a stretch though.

      • FireRunner on 02/01/2021 - 18:24
        +3

        If I recall correctly it has something to do with the magnetic fields caused by power lines. Studies into the health effects of both electric and magnetic fields (both of which form around power lines) have been conducted. No adverse health effects could be linked to electric fields. Worse that could happen was capacitance build up in nearby metal objects that would cause "electric shocks" when touching them. Studies into the health effects of magnetic fields have brought up conflicting results so we currently don't have a definitive answer to whether it is harmful.

        • mofosyne on 04/01/2021 - 01:42

          Well even if you don't think it exist, you would kind of have to pretend it exist when buying/selling it since it's the dominant belief.

          Kind of like the buying gift in christmas or buying diamonds. Acting as if it doesn't exist puts you in a disadvantage in various social/economic situations. It's a social reality.

          But at the very least, having a rational knowledge that it doesn't have a real known effect would help broaden your choice of houses.

    • biozet on 02/01/2021 - 09:59
      +4

      Around the world houses and apartment are under powerlines . Australians are spoilt for choice so the health rumours have circulated . Just have a conservative estimate on resale value

    • timthetoolman on 30/12/2020 - 20:18
      +61

      Who is getting stressed out and uneasy about overhead lines?

      • AustriaBargain on 30/12/2020 - 21:03
        +5

        It just looks nicer. Makes you feel like you live somewhere worth looking after, instead of an urban dystopia. Huge concrete and rusted iron stobbie poles stringing wires all directions across the street.

      • berry580 on 01/01/2021 - 02:07

        They're not an eye candy to say the least

      • Gnostikos on 01/01/2021 - 17:52
        +4

        I think what AustriaBargain was trying to say was that it drastically improves the appearance and land value of any suburb.

        Underground power lines mean that trees on verges, nature strips and in other public spaces adjoining roads no longer have to be pruned constantly to avoid being a hazard to overhead power lines, giving them that stubby mushroom look and reducing the variety of tree species that are feasible to plant. With less tree coverage, verges and nature strips tend look drier and less cared-for (especially in summer), and the skyline has a more cluttered feel, giving the impression of less space and a more densely-urbanised area.

        When you have a lot more towering greenery (like big, tall Coniferous trees) and foliage everywhere that doesn't have to be artificially limited in size, you get a much different feel, especially on suburban roads, where you can get that shady, leafy 1950s Americana look with overlapping trees covering a whole width of street.

        The height/proximity of buildings adjacent to power lines also no longer becomes an issue and the overall layout of roadways, footpaths and cycle paths is no longer heavily impeded by the placement of power poles, so you get nice constantly-flowing footpaths and roadways that feel a lot more expansive and roomy.

        I think you'll find most suburbs in Australia that have underground power lines tend to be older, richer, closer to the CBD and far more aesthetically-pleasing than suburbs further out from the city with overhead power lines.

    • SF3 on 30/12/2020 - 20:25
      +3

      Not sure of the implications if the high power line, running through underground and pass through the front of your house… what you can’t see can’t hurt you, right?

      Digress, little did they know was living on ex-radioactive waste site

    • WreckTangle on 31/12/2020 - 13:07
      +1

      Are you sure? Transmission pylon towers are normally above ground.

      • akyeeeahdude on 31/12/2020 - 23:41

        They also run distribution lines underground but it costs significantly more. When I was at the address I mentioned below where the house was 11m from the lines and tower, they needed to duplicate the line and ended up running most of it underground as
        a large number resumptions would be required to run it alongside the existing line.

    • buckster on 31/12/2020 - 22:56

      As a proud South Australian I take offence at your misspelling of Stobie.

      Mind you there's nothing uglier than a Stobie pole, it's like Frankenstein's monster

      • AustriaBargain on 31/12/2020 - 23:53
        +1

        I did suspect I misspelled it. The inventor, Sir Alfred Stobie, is probably rolling in his grave. My suburb is a relatively new one which is probably why everything is underground and we all have access to gigabit NBN. I kinda never want to move for the NBN alone. Like seriously I'll narrow down my possible living places from now on to areas that have fiber NBN. And it'd probably take me a while to get used to seeing overhead lines if I did have to move to a 20th century suburb.

    • Emerald Owl on 01/01/2021 - 16:18

      I tell you, it’s strange growing up in a suburb without them and then living with them.

    • Intoxicoligist on 01/01/2021 - 18:49

      I grew up in Darwin and this was the case for anything built after cyclone tracey. I never thought about the lack of visual noise until you pointed it out. Good to know.

      Also is this in one of the newer housing developments? I've seen a lot with those style of lamps around Northlakes in QLD.

    • diddy50 on 01/01/2021 - 19:04

      You really have the oddest opinions some times Lolllll

    • spaceflight on 02/01/2021 - 16:32

      It does actually improve your health because you don't have to look at unsightly cabling when you step outside your house, makes you feel a bit more relaxed.

      I'm going to buy a chainsaw next time there is a deal on one and cut down the powerlines in my street.

      That will be much cheaper than my relaxation massages!

    • airtime on 02/01/2021 - 18:48

      I have also lived overseas in suburbs without above ground electrical cables and poles. The difference it makes to the neighbourhood appearance is very positive. Everything looks much cleaner. You don't realise how much an eye-sore they are until you have lived without them.

      Now back in Sydney and I am surrounded by ugly aerial power cables and old HFC cables :-)

      Underground carriage of cables is a bit more expensive I've heard. You would think however there could be a significant saving in not having to repair damaged caused by car accidents or storms.

  • Ughhh on 30/12/2020 - 18:46

    I heard its not only maybe difficult to get a home loan, but may be also difficult to find an insurance who will insure you, or will but you might be paying more.

    • derrida derider on 03/01/2021 - 07:32
      +1

      Why? What extra risk to the property does the insurance company run?

    • Quantumcat on 30/12/2020 - 19:09
      +28

      Static electricity doesn't have anything to do with power lines. And the concern is with the magnetic field around them not with electricity itself.

      • Geekomatic on 30/12/2020 - 20:20
        -4

        We weren't able to touch the doors to get back in either. It wasn't "static". We ended up using a rubber cap to open the doors so we could leave. I know what static shock feels like— this was like putting a finger in a socket. You could hear the electrical hum in the air. Believe it or not, it happened to all 5 of us.

        • Slippery Fish on 01/01/2021 - 07:29
          +10

          If it was you wouldn't have gotten your hand off. Lol

        • This Guy on 01/01/2021 - 11:49
          +3

          For that to work the ground would need to be live and you would need to be right next to the leak source. If that was the case, walking away from the car was extremely dangerous.

          It's far more likely to be static with the weather making the earthing feature of the tires not work. It's why we used to have plastic car door handles and earth straps on every car.

          • Boostland on 02/01/2021 - 07:02
            +3

            @This Guy: Voltage can be induced when in close proximity to changing magnetic fields
            There can be a ground voltage differential around SWER power poles that can cause shocks https://esv.vic.gov.au/wp-content/uploads/2017/12/Electricit…

            • This Guy on 03/01/2021 - 13:37

              @Boostland: Yes. Geek said power lines and we are talking about distribution lines. As most of Australia has pole mounted electricity I would assume Geek was also talking about HV distribution lines and not SWER.

              A car is nothing like a coil, it's more like several pressed slabs of steel so all induced currents would be eddies with very low voltage. Considering static is high voltage low current and OP complained of shock, not death, it is far more likely they experienced static, not earth leak, earth return or induction. Mechanical generation of an unearth charge (static) can be very impressive.

              You also forgetting how effective an air gap is as an insulator. MV power lines often have metal with in a few metres of the cable protected from arcs by disk insulators. If power worked how you and Geek seem to believe, we would need forty metres of in insulation disks to reduce massive power losses and power lines more than say 10km kms would be economic suicide due to losses.

              For Geek to be at risk of shock from induction they would be at risk from arcing. Considering I have never seen a transmission line arc video from Canada (I would assume they have some long lines) I assume they are on top transmission line design.

              tl;dr: No death .: no current .: static.

      • pav on 01/01/2021 - 19:56
        +6

        And if you don't want to live near a magnetic field then you'd need to leave Earth!!

      • joungs on 02/01/2021 - 02:28

        What's the concern with the magnetic field?

        • digitalaxon on 02/01/2021 - 11:15

          Unless I'm mistaken radon particles get trapped/are attracted by magnetic fields like those generated by powerlines - so while the electricity/EMR doesn't cause cancer, the radon gas might.

          https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/radon-study-fuels-debate-…

          There have probably been subsequent studies that may have proven otherwise (or not).

          • derrida derider on 03/01/2021 - 07:44

            @digitalaxon: EXTREMELY unlikely; radon gas is chemically and magnetically inert. The only issue with radon gas is some granites emit traces and it can get trapped in poorly ventilated cellars - so in yankeedom where most houses have basements there can be a problem. The other problem is there are traces in coal so if you live near a coal power station there's an issue (though nowhere near as big a one as their particulates and sulphur).

            If magnetic fields caused cancer we'd all have brain tumours on one side of our head from mobile phones, whereas brain tumours occur on both sides at te same rate.

      • FireRunner on 06/01/2021 - 17:51

        The electric field around power lines can induce a charge on nearby metal objects which causes the mild electric shock. It’s not in anyway dangerous, just unpleasant

  • SF3 on 30/12/2020 - 19:04
    +2

    I'm convinced from what I've read that links to health concerns are either minimal or not valid.

    Me too, if I choose to live near one. 🤷‍♂️

  • norrisrules on 30/12/2020 - 19:16
    +7

    Honestly, 200m is far enough that any health concerns would be negligible. I think the only thing that's annoying about living near them is the buzzing they do intermittently depending on the weather. As long as there's some sort of noise break between you and them, it's fine (eg house, trees, etc).

    • fishing on 31/12/2020 - 09:51
      +7

      They buzz all night and if there is rain, they buzz even louder. On a hot night when your windows are open, it can prevent restful sleep.

      Even if you have a green strip of parkland underneath, they are noisy to walk under/near.

      • Analytical Therapist on 01/01/2021 - 12:24
        +2

        I live 200m from power transmission lines and to be honest i actually quite like the buzzing/hum they put out when it rains. I got my house cheaper because of the lines and get a lovely sound when it rains :shrug:

        • Intoxicoligist on 01/01/2021 - 18:50
          +6

          White Noise + White Noise = Most Excellent White Noise

      • macrocephalic on 02/01/2021 - 11:04
        +1

        I live pretty close to transmission lines (my house backs onto the greenway) and in a very quiet area. I can't hear them unless I'm outside, and even then normally can't hear them unless there's a fine drizzle in the air. When it's raining the rain is enough to cover the noise of the buzzing, so it's only when there's a fine drizzle that you hear them. A light breeze through the trees is more than enough to cover the sound.

        I know it's not good for resale but personally I like it. We have no rear neighbours, we have wildlife come right up to our back fence (once a kangaroo fell off the retaining wall into our back yard and smashed up a lot of plants panicking on how to get out).

  • Godric on 30/12/2020 - 19:17
    +5

    I've made a post on this before if you want to see some of the responses;
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/447880

    Quantumcat was also the first comment on that one too :P

    • moomilky on 30/12/2020 - 19:34
      +1

      Thanks @Godric. I've actually read through all of the responses in your post, which is why I'm comfortable about it not posing serious health concerns. It was a good reference post!

      I'm curious about minor annoyances now.

    • Quantumcat on 30/12/2020 - 21:57
      +8

      Haha, funny that I ended up buying a house near powerlines a few months after I replied to that thread

      • Godric on 31/12/2020 - 10:29

        Oh nice that's awesome

      • Cartman2530 on 02/01/2021 - 19:42
        +1

        Just bought a house near powerlines a month ago, moving in February.
        The people that worry about being close to powerlines aren't well informed, there is no danger.

  • Cartman2530 on 30/12/2020 - 20:02
    +14

    If you are worried about the EM field from those power lines, just remember the EM fields from the AC lines in all the walls of your house are in much closer proximity to you, and field strength falls off at the square of the distance from the source.

    There is no proven health risk from high voltage power lines, unless you touch them.

    • This Guy on 01/01/2021 - 11:53
      +1

      Step potential can be an issue. It's always a good idea to always stay 50 meters from one unless you are competent qualified.

      • Cartman2530 on 02/01/2021 - 19:19
        +1

        Agreed, I made a voltage multiplier once that would make the hair on your arms stand up being even 1.5 metres away and snap a spark to a grounded rod from 250mm. Pretty sure the unloaded open circuit voltage of it was around 200-300KV. Fun, but incredibly dangerous.

        • This Guy on 02/01/2021 - 23:35

          I made an RGB lamp just before high efficiency RGB LED's became a thing….

          Point is, we all do dumb stuff :-p

    • weesals on 01/01/2021 - 13:14

      I think at relatively near distances, long transmission lines would be better modelled as a line of charge, which would be just inverse falloff.

      https://www.khanacademy.org/science/electrical-engineering/e…

    • OzTech74L on 02/01/2021 - 15:11

      At one time, I visited a family friend who's close to a powerline then one of them pointed out to me what's the thing that is lighting up from my shirt pocket. It was my VOLT Stick that was lighting up… I got surprised as well that the volt stick lit up as I thought it only works in close proximity. After a few months, I realized they have sold the house and bought a new one somewhere as the dad is on a pacemaker.

      • spaceflight on 02/01/2021 - 16:43
        +3

        It's called capacitive coupling and can happen anywhere, even standing underneath a light.

        • OzTech74L on 02/01/2021 - 16:51

          Tried too many times near a normal powerline (the one that carries 240v) and street lights and it wasn't happening with the volt stick. I need to be in really close proximity a few centimetres only but with the huge powerlines that carry huge load it lights up even from a few metres away

    • Viper8 on 04/01/2021 - 14:27
      +1

      Field strength decreases at the cube, not the square (unless you live in a 2D world?).

      • Cartman2530 on 04/01/2021 - 18:09

        If you are referring to an individual power line as an electric dipole then yes, the field strength would drop off even more according to the inverse cube law which would prove my point even further.

        I was referring to the flux lines that spread out more the further you are away from them in 3d space, according to the inverse square law like all electromagnetic radiation which are always present in an energised cable.

        • Viper8 on 04/01/2021 - 19:14
          +1

          True. I'm used to working with EM emitting point sources, not "infinitely" long linear sources. Square makes sense in that context over cube.

          • Cartman2530 on 04/01/2021 - 20:29

            @Viper8: Cheers, I was trying to keep it relatively simple. Your work sounds interesting, can you elaborate further?

            • Viper8 on 04/01/2021 - 22:25

              @Cartman2530: Minerals exploration using geophysics. EM is one of the methods used.

  • l005e on 30/12/2020 - 20:08
    +5

    You could get free power if your super close

    • Intoxicoligist on 01/01/2021 - 18:51
      +3

      Just run a copper line to a balloon and float it into the wires? Sure, what could go wrong :p

      • bmerigan on 01/01/2021 - 23:32

        Just run another cable parallel to the high voltage cable and it will pick up an electric charge.

      • macrocephalic on 02/01/2021 - 11:06

        The trick is to run a nylon string to the wires then attach the string to a cable and pull it over. Of course you'll still probably die, but you'll have more control over when you die.

  • BatmanBeer on 30/12/2020 - 20:10

    I knew of a family who lived right next to a tower (house was literally a few metres from the tower) in the same suburb I grew up in. Husband and wife were diagnosed with cancer a few years apart. They didn't make it and passed away. A few years later their daughter was also diagnosed with cancer. Their case was because they were exposed to long-term radiation from living directly next to the transmission tower. It was such a sad story.

    Bear in mind that radiation levels drop significantly the further away from the tower. 200 metres is definitely safe.

    • moomilky on 30/12/2020 - 20:30

      Wow, that's unfortunate for the family - really sad to hear.

      200 metres is definitely safe

      Yeah, I've come to that conclusion. Just more interested in everyday annoyances

      • Quantumcat on 30/12/2020 - 22:00
        +1

        From memory I think mine are 80m away and I've never heard anything, don't even know they're there until I go out and take a walk through the nice green belt

    • SBOB on 30/12/2020 - 22:16
      +23

      Their case was because they were exposed to long-term radiation from living directly next to the transmission tower. It was such a sad story

      While sad, correlation does not equal causation

    • victorby on 30/12/2020 - 22:35
      +25

      Let me clarify, radiation is generally misunderstood term. Assuming u meant HV line which was close to their home, any radiation emitted from these is non-ionizing similar to microwaves /radio waves. There is no evidence non-ionizing radiation will cause any cellular damage/ cancer. Back ground radiation which we experience everyday from cosmic sources, Radon emissions from earth & medical procedures is many fold dangerous than microwaves/radio wave spectrum.
      Unfortunately the fact whole family were diagnosed with cancer suggest genetic disorder or hereditary issues. This family would have received higher dosage of radiation from concrete in their home / Granite table in kitchen and Air travel over their lives.
      In lay man terms non-ionising radiation is knife made out of paper/card board while as u go up the spectrum into gamma rays it is knife made out of metal. Both are knives but u know which would hurt more. Australian regulator for radiation safety (ARPANSA) has cool info on their site…
      https://www.arpansa.gov.au/understanding-radiation

      Ask me anything about radiation, uranium mining & nuclear power. will try 2 help.

      • Gnostikos on 01/01/2021 - 18:07
        +3

        There is no evidence non-ionizing radiation will cause any cellular damage/ cancer.

        Even the WHO now lists cellular radiation from mobile phones as a possible carcinogen, and specifically associates it with an increased risk for malignant brain cancers.

        There was a world-first, 2-year study on the effects of mobile phone radiation on 3,000 mice subjects done by the US National Toxicology Program, which showed a link between brain cancer/heart tumors and constant EMF exposure at 900Mhz frequencies (typical of mobile phones in the 2990s when the study was conceived). Today's mobile phones are operating at 2.4Ghz and higher and that's only going to increase as mobile phone technology advances.

        In lay man terms non-ionising radiation is knife made out of paper/card board while as u go up the spectrum into gamma rays it is knife made out of metal. Both are knives but u know which would hurt more. Australian regulator for radiation safety (ARPANSA) has cool info on their site…

        The bottom line is, human beings have evolved to live an environment subject to ionising solar radiation for millions of years. Our DNA automatically triggers repairing mechanisms when humans are exposed to ionising radiation above a certain threshold.

        What we have not evolved to be adapted for is to be bathed in an electrosmog from the cradle to the grave, that blankets the entire Earth 24/7, whose output increases exponentially every year, which has only begun to be deployed at such a large scale in the last 15 years of human history and which has already been proven to have immunosuppressive effects as well, in addition to carcinogenic risks.

        The precautionary principle would be the most sensible approach to follow, given it's impossible to have a conclusive finding as to the the nature of long-term, constant non-ionising radiation exposure due to its relatively recent emergence.

        Thalidomide, PCBs, DDT, Agent Orange, CFCs, Asbestos, Cigarettes, Lead as an additive in petrol/paint, Dioxin-based pesticides, Dalkon Shield, etc were all at one point in time considered as safe as water itself, and in days gone by, armed with the backing of a chorus line of "experts" who swore on enough Bibles to sink Noah's Ark.

        • Intoxicoligist on 01/01/2021 - 18:55
          -1

          I think the point you make about long-term, constant non-ionising radiation exposure is a damn good one. We've had microwaves at 2.4 for years, but they weren't on constantly. We've had cell phones for ~15 on 2.4 and thats a constant exposure. Now that we've got 5Ghz towers its a higher frequency again. I know most studies on non-ionising radiation pre-2000's were pretty ok with it, but I do wonder if constant exposure has any correlation to negative impacts.

          Guess I'll light up a perfectly safe cigarette in my Asbestos house while taking out the bamboo with Agent Orange. Bring on the roaring 20's.

          • GrueHunter on 02/01/2021 - 09:45
            +1

            @Intoxicoligist: What's a 5Ghz tower?

            • spaceflight on 02/01/2021 - 16:56
              +1

              @GrueHunter:

              We've had microwaves at 2.4 for years, but they weren't on constantly

              So?
              We have a sun that's shining on us for half of every day.

              If you were to lay down in the sun you would be getting about 800w of high energy radiation (light and IR) - 3.2 million times more than from WiFi.

              We've had cell phones for ~15 on 2.4 and thats a constant exposure.

              No we haven't.
              Mobile phones do not use 2.4ghz to communicate with phone towers.

              Now that we've got 5Ghz towers its a higher frequency again.

              No we don't.
              There is no such thing as 5ghz phone towers.

              • Gnostikos on 02/01/2021 - 20:54

                @spaceflight:

                Mobile phones do not use 2.4ghz to communicate with phone towers.

                It depends on your carrier and your phone.

                4G/4G LTE networks operate on frequencies between 700Mhz - 2.8Ghz (though the bulk of the 4G bands are between 1.8Ghz - 2.8Ghz); roughly in the same neighbourhood as WiFi.

                There is no such thing as 5ghz phone towers.

                I'm pretty sure GrueHunter was referring to 5G and particularly the millimetre wave high-band 5G technology which operates at frequencies of 25–39 GHz, with much higher frequency ranges reserved for future expansion (the 6G successor standard is touted to use frequencies in the terahertz range, 140 GHz - 230 GHz).

                • spaceflight on 02/01/2021 - 21:05

                  @Gnostikos:

                  It depends on your carrier and your phone.

                  No it doesn't. Mobile phones do not use 2.4ghz to communicate with phone towers.

                  The entire 2.4ghz band is reserved as an ISM Band.

                  It cannot be used by telcos for mobile phone services.

                  • Gnostikos on 02/01/2021 - 21:10
                    +2

                    @spaceflight:

                    No it doesn't. Mobile phones do not use 2.4ghz to communicate with phone towers.

                    The entire 2.4ghz band is reserved as an ISM Band.

                    They're close enough that any purported health effects from 2.4Ghz non-ionising EMF sources such as WiFi would likely be similar to health effects from 4G/low-band 5G sources too.

                    Anyway, as I'm the only one posting sources here as to the effects on human health from non-ionising radiation, this is all a bit of a diversion from the actual topic at hand.

                    My point was that the verdict on non-ionising EMF exposure and its effects on human health is far from settled; other than in the eyes of all of the corporations and government bodies who are heavily invested into this technology and profit handsomely from it.

            • bobbified on 02/01/2021 - 20:55

              @GrueHunter: That's what caused the coronavirus! 🤣

          • Gnostikos on 02/01/2021 - 21:08

            @Intoxicoligist:

            I think the point you make about long-term, constant non-ionising radiation exposure is a damn good one. We've had microwaves at 2.4 for years, but they weren't on constantly. We've had cell phones for ~15 on 2.4 and thats a constant exposure. Now that we've got 5Ghz towers its a higher frequency again. I know most studies on non-ionising radiation pre-2000's were pretty ok with it, but I do wonder if constant exposure has any correlation to negative impacts.

            The problem really is that people can't have a sensible middle ground on an issue like this.

            Either they're of the mindset that life-long, non-ionising radiation exposure such as that from power lines, cellular/mobile networks, WiFi, etc is not and never will be harmful OR they go all out with some loony theories about EMF being directed-energy weaponry/mind control waves that will read your thoughts and give you COVID.

            No one wants to present a rational compromise and say that given the largely unknown, long-term health effects from the ever-growing infrastructure of EMF sources in urban environments maybe we shouldn't be racing to become so economically and technologically dependent on new advancements like 5G, before we've had a chance to reasonably evaluate it for any negative health impacts, especially given there is an emerging body of research showing negative health effects from older generations of such technologies in the incredibly scant time it's been around human beings.

            The negative association between any rational inquiry into the topic of electrosmog/non-ionising EMF exposure affecting human health and the lunatic fringe (especially in 2021) totally detracts from the growing (and I do mean growing) body of industry experts and independent, non-affiliated scientists who are voicing concerns about the exponentially-accelerated rate of the deployment of such EMF sources in urban environments across the world:
            https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/we-have-no…
            https://www.jrseco.com/european-union-5g-appeal-scientists-w…
            https://www.nationofchange.org/2020/04/18/flying-blind-scien…
            https://www.5gspaceappeal.org/signatories-organizations

            The bottom line is, this technology is too recent and far too-little studied in order for there to be any conclusive word on whether there are long-term human health effects and the constantly-evolving deployment and technology make it much harder to gauge a reliable "baseline" as to what a typical daily exposure in a typical urban environment constitutes and where the thresholds for acceptable limits should be.

            • Intoxicoligist on 03/01/2021 - 13:23

              @Gnostikos: I guess when the baseline for health analysis is longitudinal studies, its near impossible to assess newer technology that gets obsoleted within 5-10 years. I agree with your point though, the polarisation of viewpoints seems to be a common trend in todays world

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join