Hello All,
Just after some opinions and if available any evidence, of whether or not it is actually harmful to be living near powerlines.
What are your thoughts?
Is there any evidence to back up the claim of it actually being harmful and increase ones chance of getting cancer?
As to why I'm asking is because I'm considering some land that's 50 meteres from powerlines.
Curious to hear your thoughts!
Correlation does not equal causation.
Your saying 137 people in Australia die from cancer every day, must be EMF is as ridiculous as comparing the per-capita consumption of chicken to total US crude oil exports. There is an almost 90% correlation with the latter, but I think we'd all agree the two aren't linked.
Further examples of the ridiculousness of comparing the incomparable - http://www.tylervigen.com/spurious-correlations
Some types of cancer do happen in greater rates than before, but the idea that it's related to 'signals' is pseudo science.
Here's a good article
https://scienceblog.cancerresearchuk.org/2015/02/04/why-are-…
Key points
-More deaths are attributed to cancer now because people now live longer, and cancer is more prominent with age.
-Cancer from lifestyle choices that are more common than before, e.g. tanning, obesity, excess consumption of certain foods
-We're better at identifying medical issues more accurately, something that may not have been labelled as cancer before could be now
If anything in an urban environment would be increasing your chance of cancer it wouldn't be power lines. It'd be things like air quality.
@[Deactivated]: no, but if you walked into a room full of scientists, with actual research behind them, it might be a better scenario
:/
why would you listen to some random people as your source of scientific facts?
@[Deactivated]: I know doctors that smoke and some that have smoked; all of them acknowledge that causes cancer and that it's a stupid thing to do from that respect.
They do enjoy it though - so it's a question of balance and risk on their part to choose to continue.
Same with alcohol, red meat, drugs etc
Objective representation of the facts is a question of honesty, intelligence, and knowledge; not of personal vices.
You can probably expect scientists to be honest, intelligent and knowledgeable.
Less so sellers of magnetic bands, crystals, homeopathic remedies etc.
@servodude: Not going to debate the health effects of exposure to EMF radiation whilst you (and I) are currently under the influence of EMF radiation. Just as I would expect any scientist that is honest, intelligent and knowledgeable wouldn't try to debate the health effects of alcohol consumption if they were drunk…
@servodude: Hold on, I don't smoke, take alcohol or drugs, but why'd you through red meat in there? Are you telling me my steak is no good for me too??
(I also didn't buy a house because it had one of those big steel power lines in the backyard. I don't know that it's bad for your health, but that was too much too close for me!)
@[Deactivated]: Moreso than I trust some unqualified pessimistic nobody on a forum in the Internet who disregards evidence in favour of conspiracy theories and baseless opinion.
It must be very difficult to live every day with that paranoia.
@[Deactivated]: Can I interest you in a gluten free, pesticide and herbicide free Faraday cage for your EMF concerns?
@[Deactivated]: That's silly. Smokers are all aware of the health risks. It sounds like you've never spoken to a smoker, just imagined what the conversation would be like.
And why are the red meat eaters all angry?
Have you ever interacted with another human?
@crentist: Excess red meat has been tied to increased rates of bowel cancer, it was referenced in the article I linked and probably why he brought it up.
@Beanvee: That's fine, but I was asking why he characterised them as "a room full of angry red meat eaters" which is entirely his own addition.
It must also cause obesity…
It's inverse-square, not exponential. ;)
Lol thank you, has been over ten years since I studied physics and it shows
They are 2 different beasts to be fair power lines OP sounds like he is referring to are unprotected pole top power which as you stated falls away below what is in a residential home well before the 50m .
Usually by the time you have moved the probe a distance of about a meter away the strength of signal drops below the threshold that would concern someone.
The cancer studies I believed concluded that it was the pesticides herbicides to treat the poles the potential greater factor for cancer to which I believe most are now banned and no longer in use.
The Frequency would be my only concern if you can hear them to the point it bugs you then you have a reasonable point against however this appears to be a genetic factor in a set of people and something that would drive you nuts straight away and probably be fairly aware of if it did by now.
Many of the city people after 50 are crippled, whether mentally or physically. :-)
Note: This is my personal opinion. See for yourself.
Check an article on radio, wifi and mobile signals vs power line. Do a correct research, where you see the hypotheses, method and results.
All the best.
Bring a Gauss Meter and other RF equipment with you, definitely not nothing after 50 meters.
I'm not sure where you got your numbers from. Maybe around 500m from my own personal experience measuring around Cooks River.
You can light up a fluroscent tube underneath the power lines less than 50 meters away from it, e.g. being directly underneath or near it or slightly to the side around 20m. Just because it doesn't light up 90m away from it doesn't mean all the energy has dissipated. It just isn't strong enough to light up the tube.
500m away isn't what I would regard as safe as well either. It's just enough to get near the background levels for Sydney, which would mean it could be detecting other forms of RF which don't include the high voltage power lines, such as those you have listed.
If you compared this to remote areas then you might draw different conclusions.
Yes there is plenty of evidence that it 'may' be harmful. Again, my advice is to do some googling and make your own conclusions based on ALL the evidence and do not be swayed by people who have very narrow criteria for determining such things. Most 'official' safe limits for these kinds of things are changeable or compromised by industry so don't put too much weight on government assurances.
As to your specifics.
http://www.emfservices.co.nz/services-2/buying-a-house-near-…
How far away is the house from the lines?
Measurements around many power lines in New Zealand (the high voltage lines usually supported by large pylons) show that once you are 50 to 100 metres away from any line the magnetic fields are lower than, or similar to, the levels found in houses which are far away from any lines. if the house is more than 100 metres away, the lines will almost certainly make little or no difference to the magnetic fields inside it.
If the house is less than 50 metres away, the magnetic fields will probably be higher than in most houses, but similar to the levels found near many appliances (such as an electric range or a vacuum cleaner). Even directly beneath the lines, the magnetic field will be much lower than the limits recommended by the Ministry of Health.
https://www.blushield-us.com/living-near-power-lines/?v=6cc9…
Yes, EMF’s (electromagnetic frequencies) are potentially dangerous. Even the WHO (World Health Organization), which isn’t necessarily on top of everything health related, recognizes this saying that EMF’s are possibly carcinogenic to humans. (source)
Note that this was a reversal of their previous position, such as in 2002, where they said EMF’s did not cause cancer.
Various industries have always muddied the scientific waters by lobbying and having front groups. Tobacco did it decades ago. And various businesses in the wireless, cell phone and other industries have also been doing it for years.
https://en.geovital.com/how-close-is-too-close-when-living-n…
https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&object…
If it were me I wouldn't, but each tot heir own. :)
Great info thank you,
But nothing conclusive i believe
Nah it was just a couple of links to get you started. If it's a concern for YOU then I suggest you do some research.
Cheers
This is part of that research,
Cheers
@Godric: And do your research at least via some level of scientific studies using Google scholar..
A normal google search can just return whatever unspecific,unscientific drivel someone happens to want to put on a web site.
The main downside is resale value..regardless of health effects, not everyone loves the serenity of hv power lines out their back door.
Research is done by scientists, not people using Google.
Don't open your mind to conspiracy theory.
Most 'official' safe limits for these kinds of things are changeable or compromised by industry so don't put too much weight on government assurances.
As much as the rest of his post is reasonable, a touch of caution is needed when making a statement like this. It’s the sort of comment anti-vaxxers love to jump all over.
Trust scientific journals and articles. Don’t trust ANYONE who doesn’t have specific education and training in the area they are commenting on. Take it with a grain of salt then cross check their opinion with reputable sources.
BTW…EMF is electro-magnetic field…..
Or is it Electromotive Force? Or Endomyocardial Fibrosis?
Wait, maybe listening to EMF is what causes cancer?
I'm so confused…
P.S. you're also correct.
…your unbelievable..
Man I loved that song, I was 18 ish going to raves and living in London, my indie mates used to love this band. Folk law at the time suggested it stood for Epping Mother F√¢k3r$…if you pardon my french
Of course EMF's cause cancer (in specific circumstances). Ultraviolet light is electromagnetic radiation - and no one is disputing that it is a carcinogen. Similarly, X-rays are electromagnetic radiation.
There are a number of things to consider though, the frequency of the radiation and the strength. As others have pointed out, EMF strength reduces with the square of distance - so it drops off quickly. Higher frequency radiation carries more energy, but doesn't travel as far. To cause cancer, radiation has to be ionising (strong enough to cause ions). There's no evidence that radiation from [standard] electrical equipment or power lines is ever strong enough to cause ionisation.
I find it useful so I can power my lights, TV, Computer and fridge. Much quieter and more convenient than running a diesel generator.
Heh, I was assuming the OP meant large high voltage towers and the like. :)
Hah, yep those ones
I had a lady at work once tell me that she thinks they cause cancer and whatever. But I also know that she uses a electric blanket in winter and a hair dryer daily.
Just be advised, most mortgage insurers will not lend if you are 50 metres near power lines.
As such, if you need to borrow more than 80% then it will be a problem.
Also, same limit will apply for any potential buyer if you try and sell dowm the track.
All the best!
How far away do you need to be to get a mortgage?
Edit: I didn't neg you.
You can get a mortage under 50 metres, but not if you need to use a mortgage insurer - i.e. borrowing more than 80%.
Absolute rubbish
Which bank is happy to do this for you?
If the bank does an in person valuation they will spot the powerlines and lmi company will not provide insurance. Desktop valuation will probably overlook this.
No, he's / she's correct. Neither Genworth or QBE will insure if within 50 metres of high voltage power lines, and they're the two dominant players in lenders' mortgage insurance. And some financial institutions won't lend on a property that is that close, regardless of LVR - assuming they do a full val anyway. If they're relying on a desktop or e-val then they won't even know. But over 80% LVR they're going to do a full val and that's where the LMI policy cuts in.
i thought this was a stupid joke until i looked it up.. yes, apparently some LMI insurers wont insure you if you're next to high voltage power lines. I'm guessing its something to do with the perception of poor price growth/price falls for such properties rather than any supposed health risks
@dimitryp: There's also a non-zero chance the power lines have a catastrophic failure and destroy your house…
I was a bit concerned as my childs day care center is located near some pretty major power lines, so I asked Dr Karl Kruzinski and he said there is no danger, which is good enough for me.
There is probably more danger in being within 50m for Dr Karl, with his psychodelic shirts.
Wouldn't be the first time Dr Karl was wrong about something. :)
what type of powerlines?
415V distribution?
11 kV lines?
33 kV?
66 kV?
Don't forget 500-600kV
Not sure, definitely not the first you mentioned
Time to get your multimeter out
The Aldi one should be alright for that, yeah?
/s, just in case.
At least your power will be fresh being so close to the powerlines.
Stale energy is bad for appliances.
Hows the serenity?
This is Australia where everyone's injuries and health issues are everyone's financial burden.
This means tax payer money.
This means budget allocation.
This means less money for projects.
This means less popularity come election time.
If living 50m from high voltage electrical lines is bad, they'd stop people from living there. Cost of 2 people per home to be treated for chronic illnesses = not worth the rates the property generates.
Or, the cost of moving power lines from existing residences is greater than cost of long term healthcare so let it be
No government is going to pay to move powerlines.
I wish. I'm afraid this is now the Australia where people only care about making a quick buck and not much else.
Nothing has changed. You're just wise enough to realise now.
prolly nothing, but it's in ur head now and it will always affect u. especially if u meed to ask!
dont buy it, if anything goes wrong u will always blame it and regret it.
also harder to sell, u might not care but others do, if I wanna sell I the future
I ride my bike on a trail under some big power pylons. Often I can hear very loud noise like electrical rattling coming from up top, but not always. Maybe when the lines are under load? Anyway, this something to consider if you don't like noise.
Could be wind resistance noise and harmonic vibration of the lines*
.
.
* I am not an engineer. I just made that up.
According to a mate who worked on these things, its when there is high humidity in the air you will get that sound. Eg Misty morning
Its called a corona discharge. You can have it with or without a lemon slice.
Some of them buzz, that would drive me mad long before any cancer got me
If you would like to remove all the heresay and personal opinions I would suggest reading few the papers appearing in a Google Scholar search result. It is all peer-reviewed scientific papers, this means statements bound in fact, not opinion.
Of course sample size should be checked, but it's far more robust than a simple Google search.
Here is a link to get you started:
https://scholar.google.com.au/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C5&q=l…
FYI - There is no link that I'm aware of between non-ionizing radiation (power lines, wifi etc.) and cancers.
One of my sons used to rent a property at Glen Waverley VIC a long time ago. It had high voltage powerlines running directly above the back end of the block. On warm evenings we used to sit and drink many beers down there. We used to get our lighting from placing a few bare fluoro tubes around us. Because of the power lines overhead they glowed. Ya can't do that with LEDs. I dunno if the power lines were hazardous but we always used to finish the night with a nice warm feeling. I don't think all the beers we consumed would do that for us. Would they?
However, high voltage power lines are very noisy when they get wet, especially after a dry when the dusts settles on the insulators. They sizzle just like frying bacon.
mmmmm … Bacon …
Whether you believe or not is not the issue. It is what other people believe when you come to sell.
If it did, you would hear of people suing and wining lol
in short: there is no proven evidence, but they sure do look like crap which will not help resale.
Living near power lines is really good for health. You can have filtered treated water, refrigerate or freeze your food, keep warm in winter, cool in summer, and there is probably a hospital with rather a lot of equipment you can contact using a phone…
It's a little like the concern over preservatives in food. While some valid studies may show an apparently large increase in cancers [from say 3 in 50,000 to 9 in 50,000, a 300% increase!] they need to be assessed against the vastly greater increases due to eating spoilt and or rotten food…
I wouldn't worry about it. Just be mindful that when you go to sell you're going to have a hard time selling and the price is going to reflect that.
Is it 3 lines or 4 lines? 3 Lines indicate High Voltage 7.6kv and above and 4 is Low voltage - 240v.
A least you can charge your Telsa for free
My partner and I lived for nearly three years in a rental which was 75m away from a 220kV line and she was diagnosed with large B-cell Lymphoma late last August. But, I'm pretty sure EM radiation has nothing to do with it.
The research says it is safe at worst inconclusive…
I wouldnt live near power lines and i'd try my best to not work near them for any prolonged period of time - however i am paranoid about stuff like that remember once upon a time smoking and asbestos were 'safe'….
When ever big money is involved dont count on businesses to care about your health and welbeing if it means huge profits…
I went and looked at a development near power lines recently and in the contract it was stipulated that if you were to get sick from the power lines you coundt sue the developer….they wouldnt have that in there if it was 100% certain to not cause any medical issues
I live in a house with high tension power lines approximately 40 meters away from the house.
I only have headaches 30% of the time… Joking.
I did a lot of research before I purchased but in the end I felt that there was nothing conclusive either way so went ahead.
It has an affect on people perception of property. So I got the house for cheap. However I know that in future unless they move the powerlines I will have to sell the house cheaper than other houses 2 streets over.
Also I figure that my dogs live in the yard 24 / 7 while I only sleep ther.. So they will be the canary in the coalmine for me… Joking once again… My belief is that there is no / negligible effect so Im taking the risk.
did you have any issues getting a loan? did you need to get LMI?
@dimitryp
I didnt need LMI luckily. But I worked for a bank in lending at the time and I am certain that if I needed LMI I would not be able to get it (I actually used this fact in my negotiations for the property).
Other users have pointed out that sometimes a desktop valuation is undertaken. This means a bank uses estimation software to compare the price of the property with other houses in the area.. However when LMI is involved generally the LMI providers (the people who sell this insurance to the bank) would not issue LMI based on a desktop valuation and would demand a full valuation where this issue will be noted.
My understanding is that the limit is within 50 meters of powerlines LMI will not insure. Its not based on harmfulness of powerlines but really the perceived negative view from potential buyers which would impact saleability.
Leaving the health issues aside, I would only buy it at a discount because :
1. If you posted it here then a future buyer may have the same concern and reduce your buyer pool
2. They are a eye sore. Not very pretty
3. Do they make any noise? Do they emit any humming sound?
I bought near powerlines. They generally hum only when they are wet. And also you don't hear them humming from your house… only when walking directly under them.
You are right though. Only buy at a discount and you will have to sell at the same discount.
Except for point 3. They are only an eyesore if you care about them. I sometimes think about them the way Darryl Kerrigan thinks about them…
'he reckons powerlines are a reminder of man's ability to generate electricity!'
See if you can get your hands on a movie called "Neighbours" starring John Belushi and Dan Ackroyd for the full living-near-powerlines experience.
Powerlines, cell towers, etc, pose absolutely zero heath risk.
If you truly are concerened, consider that you have powerlines IN your home, you probably have wifi, some of the above in every room, surrounding you daily. I don't suggest being concerned, but if you must: start worrying about the infractructure inside your home before you bother with whats 50 metres across the road.
Good point. We're all getting cancer anyway
FWIW, I wouldn't risk my family's health by moving to a property close to high voltage power lines, even if there is no solid evidence that it causes cancer. Plenty of other properties around.
Well this is it isnt it? to save a few dollars is really worth even just a 2% chance it could be dangerous ?
The only thing that's bad for is your view.
Not harmful. There might be a lot of electromagnetic radio/noise due to the inherent nature of AC current, its pretty much the same from typical radios and Wifi modems.
Unless the waves are ionizing, ie. Xrays, Gamma+, then you should be concerned. There's zero chance of this unless you live next to a nuclear plant.
1 in 2 chance youll get cancer by the time your 85, whether you live near powerlines or not.
I would suggest not worth it. Also in this kind of research, most of the time the results will be listed as correlation than causation; the researcher protecting himself.
Nope.
In terms of proximity, I think I win. before we built, we lived here with my father-in-law for about 3 years - check out the sat view and street view (about 15m from the distribution line) 12 Boxwood Place
They ended up needing to duplicate the line but with developments encroaching, they put an additional line underground. The Corona Discharge sounded interesting on humid days.
Strangely enough after my father-in-law moved out, about 5 years later he was diagnosed with a large meningioma (growth in the brain) but hey correlation does not equal causation :)
Brain tumors and mental illness are the domain of EMF energy emissions. Polluted air is lung cancer. Poor diet, too much alcohol would be correlated with liver,stomach cancers. Skin cancers, excessive light exposure.
It's a shame they don't make it mandatory to put all powerlines underground as it would effectively neuter their emf emissions…
mental illness are the domain of EMF energy emissions
"#factcheck"
please cite your scientific sources for this revelation
they should make it mandatory to have some basic level of critical thinking before being allowed on the internet
Electromagnetic signals attenuate exponentially, there'd be pretty much nothing 50 metres away
And anyway think of city people, who have power lines around them 24 hours a day, wouldn't they all be showing health problems if there was actually want issue? Not too mention radio, WiFi, and mobile signals all travelling through you all the time. And all the particles from the sun. Nothing to worry about.