From the upcoming catalogue sale starting this Wednesday 2nd December.
Coles Gift Mastercard:
Gift Card Purchase Fee: payable when you purchase a Gift Card. You have
to pay this amount in addition to the initial value of your Gift Card. Refer to
the sections above about “Obtaining your Gift Card” - $5.00 per Gift Card
Will it be safe to buy the Mastercard and ebay card in the same transaction to get 4000 points?
Dirty flybuys has cheated me out of some serious points in the past. So yeah, I would do them separate just to be sure.
I ended up buying both the ebay and Mastercard in one transaction. I just received the 2000 points for each card. So it works.
The close to 20% ebay discount is masstive
ya，brought $500 from wws this week. looks like i need to buy another $500 from coles. good
You only get 2000 points per flybuys account per card type.
ya just read the detail. that's good, to avoid the chaos
"BONUS POINTS can only be collected once per Gift Card type and will not be awarded more than once each gift card type including different demoninations of the same gift card.“
What's the we deal if you don't mind? I can't seem to find it.
@fufufu: Essentially almost 20% off with this deal vs 10% off using the Swap gift card from WW. However you can buy multiple cards at WW and still be awarded the points, whereas with flybuys you only get the bonus points once per account.
Where do you get the 20% off eBay giftcard mate?
$10 in points for buying a $50 ebay card = 20%
How? What about the $5 fee?
Aren't you paying $55 and getting $10 back?
10/55 *100 = 18%
@89tnp: Maybe, but if you zoom in it mentions 2x different fees for the Mastercards. There's no mention of any fee for the ebay card: https://en-au-media-publications.shopfully.cloud/publication…
Regardless, that's not the (LOL) 'calculation' some are citing. Really, who cares. Free money is free money no matter where it's stored. But they're citing a second, later transaction (spending the $10 points at Coles) to try and claim a lower percentage received. Receiving $10 for swapping $50 for a $50 card is 20%. No actually, it's $10 out of thin air. Because you haven't really 'spent' $50. You've just 'allocated' $50 to be spent on ebay one day.
@[Deactivated]: I love this….”you havent really spent $50”…..of course you have spent $50! Maths is an exact science, you can’t make it up.
@Coops1: Exactly, math doesn't lie. When you buy the $50 ebay card, your net worth remains the same until you actually buy something on ebay. What you have done, is allocate $50 ready for a future purchase. So you've spent exactly $0 but gained $10.
@[Deactivated]: No one is arguing about the change in what you perceive to be your net worth. You can spend $50 to buy something and still argue that you haven't changed your net worth because the item is worth $50 to you.
For the purpose of this deal, a commitment to spend in the future is as good as a spend. Can you send a private message to eBay and promise you'll spend $50 in the future without buying the gift card? It doesn't work like that.
When you buy the giftcard, you haven't "spent exactly $0" - you've promised to spend $50 for the $10 "gain" (which btw is also not worth anything until you spend it). WHEN you actually spend the $50 gift card is irrelevant.
If you say the "2nd, later transaction of $10 coles spend" shouldn't be calculated in the deal, then you shouldn't count it in your benefits when purchasing the $50 card either, since you don't get any benefit until you spend it also. Can you see where you own argument invalidates your point?
If you somehow manage to sell the gift card for $50 to someone else later, then it really would be a $10 gain from $0, since you no longer have to spend the $50. This is similar to a cashback, and total out of pocket would be $0. I find it easiest to always think Total Cost vs Total Value Received.
@aoiro: I've mostly been tongue-in-cheek and thought others were too. But I'm beginning to worry (mainly about the Australian education system).
No, I don't believe it can be (honestly) argued that spending cash, or handing over a gold nugget, redeeming traveler cheques, or using a gift card to BUY 'stuff' means you have the same net worth. The reason I put "BUY" in caps is because like those other things I just mentioned, gift cards are an accepted form of CURRENCY. (As we see in the forums when someone buys unwanted JB gift cards using another forum of currency: money.) Unless you're going to claim someone who scores a $50 JB Hifi card for $40 didn't come out $10 ahead because they plan to spend it at JB?
And while this doesn't really matter, as that example demonstrates, buying a gift card is not necessarily 'a promise to buy'. You probably will spend it at ebay, yes. But you might not too. You might hear someone has a birthday and gift it to them, or change your mind and resell it. All that matters is, until the card gets used it's WORTH… $50. You could lose it in a drawer and find it months later. Or lose a $50 note in a drawer for that matter. Your net worth never changed. You can spend that $50 note when it turns up, or get on ebay and spend the found $50 card. No difference. In both cases you were $50 up, then you're $50 down. Regardless of the 'storage method'.
So yes, it does work like that. And you really have spent exactly $0 by getting a $50 gift card. All you did was exchange one currency for a different currency.
Just because the card can only be used on ebay, doesn't mean it's not currency. Some people once used shells and stamped copper discs as currency. But those shells and coins would be laughed at by people in another country. So if you want to claim a gift card isn't currency, then $50 of Bitcoin, $50 of gold dust, or $50 of travelers cheques can no longer be be considered currency either. Because like the ebay card, all these and more can only be 'cashed in' at limited locations. Just because we can't spend UKP at an Australian corner store doesn't mean they're not a currency.
So you still have $50 in currency. Not $50 of things you bought with it. You still have $50 because you haven't used the card. Just like you'd still have $50 if you haven't used the $50 note. Because a $50 skateboard at a garage sale has some inherent value. A ten year old may think it's worth $20, a 50 year old thinks it's worth $0, and the 19 year old seller thinks it's worth $50. But the inherent value of a gift card is something like under 5 cents. So it's real value lies in the fact it is a redeemable currency. And what you plan on doing with that currency could change. e.g. We could sell it or give the card to someone else to spend on ebay, and as a substitute for what? Money! Because it's a form of accepted currency there.
The person may be restricted where they can SPEND it, but it doesn't change the fact it's a form of currency. Which means it doesn't change the fact we don't 'lose' our $50 by buying it. Otherwise we'd go to use it and it would be rejected. The same cannot be said about that $50 skateboard. It's sale takes discussion, negotiation, and a final agreement on price. there's no wondering how much a $50 card will buy. Its value is understood to be $50 by literally everyone. That makes it currency. Just a like $50 note is worth $50 to everyone. So unlike 'things' a $50 card is always worth $50, therefore your net worth hasn't changed until after you SPEND it on something that ISN'T currency.
So you're right that it doesn't matter when you spend it. Because it's worth $50 today and will be worth $50 a year from now, and will be worth $50 no matter who has it.
So of course any future spend is irrelevant to any 'profit' calculation on the initial deal, LOL! You 'spent' (TRADED is more accurate) $50 cash for a $50 card. It's a swap, a barter. $50 mainstream currency for a $50 lesser-mainstream currency. No value lost. YET. But you DID get $10 added value for the trade. And you spend the $50 later on ebay NOT at Coles. You might spend exactly $50, or you might spend $500. But you can't calculate what % your $10 'profit' reduced by, based on a completely separate future transaction, expeically one made at a different store. LOL!
If you somehow manage to sell the gift card for $50 to someone else later, then it really would be a $10 gain from $0, since you no longer have to spend the $50. This is similar to a cashback, and total out of pocket would be $0. I find it easiest to always think Total Cost vs Total Value Received.
Right. So if THEY pay US the SAME amount of $50 we paid, you now think we made $10. But when WE paid $50 and Coles gave us that $10 extra value, you claim we didn't make $10. And you think I'm the one not making sense!? You've just admitted the $10 from Coles is the ONLY thing making it profitable to resell for the SAME amount of $50. So if we spent $50, and they spent $50, but we have to sell the card to someone else to be $10 better off!? LOL.
And again, you're applying a future unrelated transaction to try and calculate the benefit of an earlier one. You pay $50, immediately get $50 back, plus an extra $10. Fifty bucks out, sixty bucks back in, in, IN. Not OUT! :-) (Yet.) You haven't used/spent the $50 at ebay yet, but have already gained the $10. You gained that $10 without bringing any second person into it. And you wouldn't buy the card if you didn't intend on using it. The only difference is you're paying $50 to ebay from the card instead of from a $50 note/bank.
Surely you're just taking the piss. Enough anyway I'm done LOL.
@[Deactivated]: Faulty P xel you're quite arrogant in your replies and can't seem to understand that it's also (and more) correct to consider it as 16.7%. In order for you to actually use the $10, you must spend it on a subsequent purchase. So if you don't use it, you would have never gotten that $10 "back" and hence the discount percentage would actually be 0%. Was $10 off of the $50 in this transaction? No it wasn't. Was $40 spent on this transaction? No it wasn't. Now you argue that no-one would get this deal if they didn't have any intention of using the $10. This may be true, but that doesn't change the fact that it would still be a minimum $60 out of pocket in order to ever get that $10 back. So the percentage is based off of what you have to spend to actually get the $10 back, not the original $50 because you actually haven't gotten the $10 back. You can argue that the $10 is just sitting there waiting to be used. So why not just say it's 100% off the first $10 of your $50 spend too? Or 50% off the first $20 of your $50 spend? I can go on and on. Mathematically and logically, the fraction is out of the amount that you need to receive that discount. Of course it is different if the $10 is actually taken off the spend at the time of purchase. But it isn't. So it's not 20%.
@CVonC: What Faulty P xel has done is got stuck on their own definition of what cash is (compared to say, mine) and come up with an example where if they manage to exchange a giftcard for cash, then a giftcard = cash. I mentioned that this was irrelevant because I thought we could just focus on what the deal actually entailed for a normal person.
That means pointing out that you can't count the $10 credit as a benefit in your example, but refuse to do that the other way. They've just completely ignored that part.
So they are able to recognise that turning $50 into $60 is a 20% gain (60/50=1.2), but they somehow cannot recognise that the exact, reverse equation is a 16.7% discount (1-50/60=0.167).
Saying 20% better off is exactly the same as saying 16.7% discount. Anyone who can only see +20% OR -16.7% is missing basic mathematical literacy.
This is a real blindspot. Worse, they have redefined the deal because giftcards are now equivalent to cash, so you never have to pay any real cash down ever. Every giftcard deal becomes a money from nothing deal with infinite returns. I suppose that's pretty useful for winning an internet argument, but pretty useless otherwise.
@Coops1: Perhaps you can help me with some maths Coops1…
Three people order a restaurant meal which totals $25
They each give the waiter $10 which he takes to the teller, who gives him $5 in dollar coins change.
On the way back he decides it is easier to pocket two dollars and give them back one dollar each.
So now each person has paid $10 - $1 = $9, and the waiter has $2 in his pocket.
…but 3 x $9 = $27, plus $2 only equals $29
We know $5 change was correct.
We know if they all got $1 of it back they all end up paying $9 each.
We know 3 x 9 = $27
We know that thieving waiter has $2
So what happened?
@s66: if you're talking about how much money was originally given, ie $30: the restaurant gets $25, the waiter steals the $2, each person gets $1. That adds up to the correct $30.
if you're talking about how much money each party ended up with (which is what makes this "puzzle" misleading): each person has $9, the waiter has $2 which you subtract from the total of $27 of the 3 people to equate to the $25 amount of the meal. You don't add $2 to the $27 which is what the words are misleading you to do.
Ackchyually you’re getting $60 worth of stuff from a total spend of $50. So 1-50/60=16.7% off.
No, because it's based on the gain on the initial transaction, not two different ones. You're combing two different transactions to artificially reduce the percentage. ;-)
You're merely swapping $50 cash, for a $50 gift card (nothing has changed yet), and netting $10 back in points. It doesn't matter if you then spend $60, because that's a second, separate transaction. It's no different to giving someone $50 and them handing you $60 back. You just made $10, which is 20% based on the $50 you gave out. Just because you then go and spend $60 doesn't mean you suddenly got less % back, because that's a second later transaction.
It's about what you earned from the initial transaction. You spend $50, get $50 back, plus $10 more, and $10 is 20% of $50.
@[Deactivated]: you could argue it both ways really.
you are being forced to spend $60 for a $10 return. ( and iirs not cash in your pocket. sure u may shop at woolies anyway but it is still a foced transaction of $10
@Garagesale: IMO the woolies cash is almost equivalent to cash, the real precision issue is that you can usually get woolworth cash (gc) for 3-5% off therefore the real value of the $10 wws cash is $9.95-9.97. Doesn't really have much effect on the result, it's very close to 20%.
@Garagesale: No, because virtually no-one will visit every supermarket except Coles for the rest of their life. Instead of getting a free $10 back in your wallet, you get a free $10 in points. Your net worth increased by $10. It doesn't matter you get $10 cash back in your wallet to buy something at Coles later, or get $10 in points that buys something at Coles later. You still get an equivalent of $10 on a $50 spend which is still 20% better off than before.
@[Deactivated]: I agree that you are getting $60, or 120% of value from your $50 spend, or as you call it, 20% better off. I will also call it a 16.7% discount off a $60 spend. It’s the same thing, because the deal only works if the total value received is $60.
But it’s not a 20% discount or 20% off, which to be fair, you didn’t specifically claim. Or anyone else, really. Carry on.
@[Deactivated]: I think the key issue is whether you treat your flybuys account as disposable or permanent (rolling). If you just create a new account for this particular promo, cash the point, use it and throw, the it is indeed 16.7%. However most of us do keep using our flybuys cards for other future promos, and flybuys$ does not affect spending eligibility, which makes the return infinitely close to 20%.
@[Deactivated]: Say you're a person who is leaving Australia today and can only go to Coles for the last time. This "deal" would be worthless to you because your 2000 pts earned wouldn't be worth anything.
The pts are only worth something if you spend them, and you can't take the points to use them elsewhere (or bank them), like cash. Which means the value proposition of the deal must include the future spend of 2000 pts, or it's not a deal at all. You can't just decide not to include the future spending of 2000 pts when calculating the value of this deal.
@aoiro: LOL. If you weren't going to use the points you wouldn't bother with this deal in the first place, therefore your choices would be either a 20% free points bonus, or 0%. In real life this would apply to virtually no-one. (Who would bother adding points to a Coles card they know they'll never use.) Any other tangents tacked on don't alter the fact you get a $10 points bonus, for a $50 spend, which is 20% better off than not buying it at all. :-)
No, because it's based on the gain on the initial transaction, not two different ones. You're combing two different transactions to artificially reduce the percentage. ;-)
You're merely swapping $50 cash, for a $50 gift card (nothing has changed yet), and netting $10 back in points. It doesn't matter if you then spend $60, because that's a second, separate transaction. It's no different to giving someone $50 and them handing you $60 back. You just made $10, which is 20% based on the $50 you gave out. Just because you then go and spend $60 doesn't mean you suddenly got less % back, because that's a second later transaction.
It's about what you earned from the initial transaction. You spend $50, get $50 back, plus $10 more, and $10 is 20% of $50.
we can agree to disagree. leave the negs aside.
i just want to say that in order to get your $10 discount, you would HAVE TO spend it. if you don't spend it, it's effectively worthless and so no savings. hence what you said, you spend $50, and get $50 back. the 2000 points require you to spend that $10 credit to get $10 worth of goods home. at the end of the day you take home $60 worth of goods for a total outlay of $50 hence the 16.7% calculation.
It would be a 20% discount if you pay $50 and they refund you $10 without having a requirement to spend another $10 at their shop (or coles group shop). at the end of the day you take home $50 worth of goods for a total outlay of $40.
@iSamurai: And likewise, until you spend the $10 piece of printed plastic in your wallet, it's effectively worthless too. It has virtually no inherent value, just like a gift card has virtually no inherent value except maybe to use scissors and save on buying a few guitar plectrums. A $10 note only has value when everyone else around you agrees it does. Just like Coles, Flybuys, and the rest of us agree 2000 Flybuys points = $10 at Coles.
You were correct up until the line: "at the end of the day you take home $60 worth of goods for a total outlay of $50 hence the 16.7% calculation."
No, you didn't 'outlay' and take home $60 in goods. You still have the $50 you always did, just in a different form, and have $10 extra for doing that swap. There's a difference.
Also gift cards are not 'goods'. And $10 in points and $50 notes are not goods. All three are forms of currency. You didn't buy $50 in goods from Coles, you bought $50 of ebay credit, which is a form of currency that will be used on a DIFFERENT transaction.
You only altered the format of your $50. You still have $50 in value right? Plus $10 more. And it takes a SECOND transaction to spend the ebay gift card, and a THIRD transaction to spend the $10 in points.
If a friend asks you how much interest your bank paid you this month, you don't say, "I can't tell you yet because I've got to buy two things today before I can work out how many % they paid me." Well that's what you're saying in this situation.
Just reduce it to the bare numbers without all the card, and points, or thinking about when or where you spend them. It's all irrelevant to the % GAIN.
You put $50 in a bank account. The bank pays you $10 interest. How many % gain is that?
If you then withdraw your $50 deposit, and the $10 interest and spend them both, that has no bearing on the amount of interest the bank paid. Just like using your Coles points and ebay card have no bearing on the percentage gain the points gave you.
To put it another way, if you said to the bank, "Uh… no, you only paid me 16.7% because I plan to spend the $60 now." They'd look at you like you had two heads because your future purchases have nothing to do with how much interest or bonus they gave you. Spending the $60 total AFTER receiving the bonus interest doesn't magically reduce the 20% down to 16.7%.
(Otherwise why stop there? You may as well count every purchase for the next decade until the percent earned is 0.0000000000001%.)
If you said to the bank it was really 16.7%, they could say, "Ok, give us back $1.65 thanks." (Because 16.7% of $50 is $8.35, and the $10 they paid you minus $8.35 = $1.65 too much they paid you.)
Coles doesn't give $8.35 in points, they give $10. Because 2000 points is $10, which is 20% based upon $50. Not based upon $60, because the $10 in points IS the bonus paid AFTER the $50. The $60 spend only happens AFTERWARDS, in a different transaction. You earned $10 based upon $50, not based upon $60. Then you SPEND $60 AFTER the bonus is added on. It's incorrect to take the $10 from a later part of the calculation and insert it earlier increasing the outlay, and reducing the interest.
Oh and if you meant negs as-in people negging comments, that wasn't me.
< It would be a 20% discount if you pay $50 and they refund you $10 without having a requirement to spend another $10 at their shop (or coles group shop). at the end of the day you take home $50 worth of goods for a total outlay of $40.
Not a 'refund', a bonus. And it's a 20% bonus based on buying a $50 card, not a $60 card. It only becomes a $60 total AFTER the bonus. To equal 16.7% ONLY the card (not the card AND points) would have to be worth $60. It isn't. The card is always worth $50. As before, you're inserting a later figures into an earlier part of the calculation.
$50 out to Coles, $60 back to you. And $60 divided by $50 = a gain of 1.2 (in other words the "1" = 100% of $50, or 1x $50. And the 0.2 = 0.2 x $50 which = 20% or $10).
If you can look at these equivalent examples (particularly the bank one) and still state it's not 20%, you can't be genuine.
@[Deactivated]: Far out, it's like talking to brick wall. Read aoiro's reply
The 20% is a gain on the $50 but it is a not discount of 20% on the $50 because the $10 discount isn't applied on the $50. If you're talking about percentages as a discount then take the discount out of how much you had to spend to get that discount. 10/60 = 16.7%. if you're talking about a gain on the $50 then it's 20%. It's the same thing but just from a different point of reference. Percentage gain =/= percentage discount in this particular instance. Why can't you see that? We're the ones not completely disagreeing with you but you're so sure that you're the only one right. It's ridiculously frustrating.
@CVonC: I think that they are just a bit stuck on what they are trying to express, but haven't entertained the possibility that we are talking about the same thing, but from a different perspective that they are missing.
Like you said, they are right, mostly, but missing that gain =/= discount. No one is disputing the 20% gain here. They are confusing 16.7% discount with 16.7% gain.
How much gain? 20%. I made $10 from $50 for a total of $60.
How much discount? 16.7%. I paid $50, saved $10 for a total of… $60.
I wonder if they have a friend that they can show this to and discuss, so that they can finally understand what we're trying to say without thinking we're fighting with them.
@[Deactivated]: What if I put it this way:
So your $50 spend gets you a $10 future coles spend benefit, which makes your gain 20%. But remember - you said that you are not allowed to calculate a future spend in the equation, it should be what benefit you are getting right now at the time of first transaction. Which means the $10 future coles spend cannot be counted in your gain, so you're left with 0% gain. By your own reasoning.
You keep wanting to include the $10 coles future spend to make your point about a 20% gain, but at the same say that the (exact same) $10 coles future spend should not be included in the calculations.
This is main thing I find wrong with your arguments. It shows me that you are using phrasing to make your points without genuinely trying to understand what everyone else is trying to express. Being able to look at oneself with a critical eye is more important than being right all the time.
@aoiro: I'll say it simply one more time. The only two things in the first transaction are the $50 card and $10 points. No future grocery or ebay purchase are relevant to any calculated gain of the first transaction. They are unrelated future events. The only two values in the first transaction are $50 and $10.
And it's not a SPEND of $60, it's a DEBIT of $50, then a CREDIT of $60. You get $60 value out, for $50 value in. And $60 = 1.2 x $50…. the 1 being the $50 back, and the 0.2 being a gain of 20% on that same $50.
And before you object to point 2 again:
Nothing else applies. Not a future Coles purchase, not a future ebay purchase. Not the $5 I find blowing down the street the same day this deal was posted, not the pot plant someone steals from the front step a week from now. Just the $10 points gained and the $50 card bought.
Never is it a gain of 16.7% because that pulls in an unrelated transaction. You can't claim 16.7% due to some future Coles spend. Just like you can't increase the gain because ebay offers some % discount code the week you use the ebay card. It was $60 in, for $50 out (or $10 in, for $50 out-then-in again). That's all there is.
It's a waste of time looping around to answer your re-complication of things. You haven't done any 'gotcha' here. You're conflating different events to come up with an incorrect answer. I've explained it amply well with figures and clear examples. You really do get that, and you're only feigning vagueness to try and draw me in to get some jollies (and everyone here including you knows it). So read the first paragraph over again or see previous posts that unravel those re-complications.
@[Deactivated]: We are not disagreeing with saying it is a "20% gain". We are saying that it is really a "16.7% discount" and that it cannot be considered as a "20% discount" nor a "16.7% gain". The distinction is with the meaning of the word gain vs discount. Your very first comment stating "20%" never mentioned "gain" nor "discount" (but you most likely implied gain). They mean the same thing but the percentages are not equal. You are the one making things complicated by being so adamant that you're the only one right and completely unwilling to understand from the other perspective.
Say someone bought a $50 eBay gift card and got a $10 reduction on the receipt and thus only paid $40 for it, what is your percentage gain and what is your percentage discount? 25% vs 20% right?
In the context of this deal, that $10 is only ever applied if you spend $60. 60/50 = 20% gain. Discount is 10/60 = 16.7%. It is the same thing. But your main argument is stressing a retroactive application of the $10 to the $50. You cannot logically do that until you have spent at least $60. So the $10 can never be applied only the $50 as it only applies to a $60 spend. Otherwise, why don't you just apply it to some random $10 purchase years ago and claim you got that for free?
@CVonC: There is no 'perspective' with math as you yourself pointed out. A percentage gain or discount applies to the original transaction, not a different one.
The card is what you bought, the card is what earned the 10% (Tran1). Not groceries (Tran2).
If my bank charges 3% on a home loan, then I receive an inheritance, I don't sit down and subtract the inheritance (transaction 2) off the bank interest (transaction 1) and then tell everyone my bank is only charging me 2%!
Gain, net, profit, discount, credit…. it doesn't matter which word is used. It doesn't change the only two pieces of relevant data. $50 and $10. The gain of transaction 1 is $10. And IF someone chooses to express that as a % they have to use $10 compared to $50 because those are the only two bits of data in T1.
The second transaction (redeeming the points) has NO bearing on the first, no matter how much someone chooses to think it does. Just like I could then say T3 (ebay spend) has to be included too. Neither T2 or T3 are relevant to T1.
Transaction 1:
End of transaction one. No points were spent. No ebay purchase made. You simply gained $10 value/profit based on a $50 purchase. There is nothing to dispute about that fact.
Q1: What is the monetary value of the ebay card you bought?
A1: $50.
Q2: What is the monetary value of the points received for buying the $50 ebay card?
A2: $10
Q3: By what monetary value did you net worth increase/gain/profit?
Q3: $10
Q4: By what PERCENTAGE did your net worth increase/gain/profit? (You cannot call the points a PURCHASE yet because they were a bonus in, not a spend out. That hasn't happened in transaction one. So what is the only thing you've purchased? The $50 ebay card.)
A4: 10 divided by 50 = 0.2 or 20%.
Again: this is the END of transaction 1. Finito. No other data applies to T1, and T1's data doesn't apply to T2 or T3 either.
Saying PART of T1 is 16.7% off T2, is like inserting a piece from a different jigsaw puzzle. Even though it may be cut with the same die and appear to fit, it doesn't belong there and gives a corrupted picture.
Then look at…
Transaction 2:
* Redeem $10 Flybuys points
Transaction 3:
* Spend $50 on ebay
Q: Now what percentage did you profit/gain by applying transaction T2, back onto T1…. No! It doesn't matter, irrelevant, warning Will Robinson! Neither of these have anything to do with transaction 1.
Yes, I do understand what you're saying, but it's still a very weird way of looking at things and wrong, and here's another major reason why:
If you're going to use the second points redemption, to calculate the profit/gain of T1, then you must be consistent. The ebay card was purchased at the same time the points were earned. So you can't apply the points to T1, but not the ebay card.
You'd have to wait until your ebay purchase/auction (or more than one) has ended. Because the ebay listing may be a BIN with 5% discount. Or a 4% Cashrewards cashback might apply. Or the seller may incorrectly calculate the postage and need to increase it. Or you could lose the ebay card.
So if you include the points redemption, you should wait and also add or subtract any ebay amounts to know total profit/loss of T1. Because the ebay card was also a part of T1.
Yes it's ridiculous, but it's the next logical step and result of another silly thing that happened first: applying what happens in T2 to T1.
Hence why reaching over to use the figures of a second or third transaction to calculate the gain of the first is problematic.
@[Deactivated]: By your own example,
“Transaction 1:
Pay $50
Receive $50 card
Receive $10 points (*)”
That last part, “Receive $10 points” is equivalent to your T2. The benefit is an ACTUAL future spend of $10, not just the receiving of $10 points. Just HAVING $10 worth of points is not a benefit. Would you call T2 a different, additional benefit to “just having the $10”? Do you then get 2 seperate, different benefits?
You say “The second transaction (redeeming the points) has NO bearing on the first”, but that just doesn’t make sense, because “receiving $10 points” isn’t a benefit without a spend. It is more correct to call the benefit “receive $10 worth of coles group stuff in a future spend”. You didn’t just get $10 as you seem to imply, you got $10 to spend in the future, and you didn’t get it NOW, it’s for LATER.
You want to seperate * in your T1 from T2, but you can’t, because they are the same.
To rephrase your T1, correctly,
“Pay $50
Receive $50 card
Receive T2”
@[Deactivated]: Any value you perceive the $10 in points to have is directly connected to your ability to spend it in the future. It has no other value without this condition. Your net worth doesn't increase by $10 points full stop - it increases by $10 points future spend.
The amount of mental gymnastics that you have to go through, just to be able to claim that having $10 worth of points has inherent value unconnected to the actual spending of said $10 later, is mind boggling.
Here, have $10 million from me to increase your net worth. I've promised it to you. Don't try to spend it in an unrelated future transaction though. It's only for now. Just enjoy its beautiful inherent value, unencumbered by pesky conditions such as… getting to spend it.
Boom.
@[Deactivated]: Far out man. It's simple. Did you get a $10 discount on the $50? Stress on the word d i s c o u n t. The "gain" is 20% on the $50. The effective "discount" is not 20% based on the $50 because you did not pay $40 for the $50 card.
You're the one overcomplicating it with what one chooses to do with the gift card. That part is completely irrelevant. Heck the fact that it's a gc is irrelevant too.
Hence why reaching over to use the figures of a second or third transaction to calculate the gain of the first is problematic.
Can't you see you're so stuck in your tunnel vision? Let me state it again, we agreed the "gain" is 20% but the effective "discount" is not 20%.
You really need to have someone talk to you irl. This kind of arrogant stubbornness is what's really problematic in the grand scheme of things.
@CVonC: Just let it go. They will never admit to being wrong after all this effort, if they even have the self-awareness to figure out where they went wrong, since they are too arrogant to consider that they are capable of making a mistake.
Let's hope it's not some kid with a rudimentary level of maths who schools them when they encounter this situation again in real life. Then it will really be embarrassing. Ignorance can be fixed with education, but narrow-mindedness is often a permanent character flaw.
@[Deactivated]: Wow. You really are stuck. I don’t know what to say any more.
I swear I’m not trying to confuse you, and neither is anybody else. You have actually misconstrued a lot of what we’ve been saying.
You don’t have to believe us. I suspect you don’t anyway. But please, show this whole thread to someone else who you trust in your life, who can look at this with fresh eyes and discuss it with them. You don’t have to come back to this thread later to tell us how you went, but please humour me this one last time and talk to someone. You’ve already spent all this effort on the thread anyway, what’s one more thing?
If you’re been trolling all this time, then all I have to say is… Bravo?
@aoiro: No I'm not trolling. It doesn't even matter really. Btw… I'd have to spend hours reading back, but I don't believe the point you are now making is exactly what others were.
Agreed. The $10 (2000pt) bonus is contigent on a future spending at Coles, not cash you can take anywhere else.
It is the equivalent of: Spend $60 at Coles and get a $50 ebay card plus $10 worth of Coles goods for free.
You don't gain an extra $10 to spend, instead you get $10 off a $60 Coles spend.
@aoiro: Right. So it's only 20% if you plan to eat again in Australia. Which makes the only two choices 20% better off, or 0%. Not 16.7% better off. ;-)
@[Deactivated]: Your new to this are you? It’s 16.66667% off. Your outlaying $50 cash for $60 in product. If you paid $40 cash for the $50 product, that’s 20%. Please don’t be an accountant for anyone.
@Coops1: Please stop talking nonsense. First, the $50 card will be spent at ebay, not Coles. And no matter where the $10 bonus is stored, it's a $10 bonus for swapping $50 of your money for a $50 ebay card. And when you use that $10 in points, you get to keep $10 in your bank/wallet. So you're up $10 from a $50 SWAP (not spend), and $10 is 20% of $50.
Edit: Actually, you haven't really spent $50 anywhere yet. You're allocating $50 of your money on a $50 future ebay purchase. So you really got $10 from Coles for nothing. It can't be calculated because you 'spent' $0 to gain $10. But if you could calculate it, it would be an over 100% gain. e.g. If we use the lowest possible amount it could 'cost' us of 1 cent, then $10 / $0.01 = 1000%. ;-)
@[Deactivated]: Come on guys, you're not arguing different things. 20% better off is the same as a 16.7% discount. They are both $60 of value for $50 outlay.
Just like a "buy one get one free" is "100% better off", but only a 50% discount.
Whether you spend it right now at Coles or later at eBay doesn't matter, as long as you have to spend it (ie, it can't be banked as cash and not spent).
@aoiro: Oh and I also can't use a $100 Mastercard at the local Bunnings charity sausage sizzle or a pie at the local footy club. Doesn't mean I've lost the use of the Mastercard making it worthless. You just fund purchases using accepted forms of currency. Today at Bunnings or footy it's cash, tomorrow it's accumulated points at Coles. Net worth is no worse off.
@[Deactivated]: I'm just trying to be specific about the maths, which is that the deal only makes sense in the context that the 2000 pts future spend is included as part of the value of the deal. I can infer that you agree with that (from all the examples you've given), but the maths should follow that too.
I know that realistically everyone is getting 2000 pts to spend and that's worth about $10, no matter what percentage you call it. I just thought some people might be interested in the accuracy of the maths as I would have been if I ran into this.
If you have not come across the Monty Hall problem, that's a puzzle in a similar vein with an interesting answer that seems quite counter-intuitive. I do hope you check it out if you get a chance.
@aoiro: The flybuys cash can be redeemed for Kmart, mycar, Target, Coles Express and Liquorland as well besides Coles itself.
@shinjiman: Yeah, I know, where you spend it doesn't matter, but it just has to be spent for the deal to work (unlike a cashback, or $x cash off at the cashier). $50 out of pocket for $60 of value.
I was mainly defending iSamurai's comment that was getting negged even though they were correct.
@aoiro: thanks mate. this was brought up i believe a few years ago on ozbargain and had a huge discussion about it. i can't find where it is now, but i remember clearly this was taught back in high school maths…
Your right!
@CVonC: $10 coles points is so offsettable against a necessary spend that it may as well be $10 cash back though.
wouldn't it be 10% after the $5 fee?
I have the same question
There's no fee for the $50 ebay gift card, and $10 bonus points with a $50 card is the one that = 20%.
Damm, need to get up at 5am again next Wednesday. More deals during the holiday season please eBay!
once per account, doesn't worth it for.$10 of points
yea, just noticed it.
Once, per card, per account: https://en-au-media-publications.shopfully.cloud/publication…
So obviously the first two are better because you get $2.50 more ($10 ebay + $10 MC - $5 MC fee = $15).
Yep they are the only 2 worth buying
I didn't know that there was such a thing as a $250 Coles Gift Mastercard? The biggest I have ever seen in Brisbane is $100.
@capslock: Seen those, but Woollies is dead to me ever since they stopped allowing gift cards to be bought with gift cards.
@endolphin: I only spotted the $250 Coles Gift MasterCard for the first time at a Coles yesterday, so I’m fairly sure it’s a very recent addition.
Is it on both the 50 and 100 coles mc gift cards?
Once per gift card type. 50 not included
Thank god they put in a limit on this one. The other TCN gc deal was horrendous with all the early morning drama and then cards taking half a day to load…
Yes, but it’s still a better deal. Bit of pain for a lot of gain.
do 100 and 250 coles mc gift cards count as 2 different types?
No. "Bonus points… …will not be awarded more than once for… …different denominations of the same card."
Can you use an egift card to buy the gift card?
You can as long as you have the full amount on one egift card. No other purchase necessary.
Really? I thought coles would be the same as woolies.
How is Coles still able to have this whereas Woolies blocked it?
I got denied at Coles yesterday buying a Bunnings gift card with a Coles egift card.
Done this a heap of times prior.
Was using a self checkout (which always worked before), so not sure if it will work if you go through an operated checkout..
How did the operator know you were using a GC. I hide them under a coles bag and have a cc sitting on top. It seems to me that some stores do not care what you do and in others staff are instructed to stop it. This also applies to the number of GC's you are trying to purchase. Maybe try another one.
@Yola: It flagged on the system as soon as it scanned the egift card barcode. ie locked out the payment and the red light flashed and the person came over.
However, I went through an attended checkout today and bought a Bunnings gift card, and that worked. So seems it's now reversed, you need to go through an attended checkout.
@tunzafun001: I just tried paying with an e-gift card and it worked at the self-checkout. Attendant told me you can’t but you can try. She said last week it wasn’t allowing ppl to do it with the other promotion. Not sure. I didn’t attempt to buy that type. She said it might be brand specific. Seems it’s very hit and miss. YMMV
I did this twice yesterday - paid $105 for Coles MC with a $200 e-gift card at self-checkout. No issues at all.
the pic shows 2000 points per gift card type
Is there a Netflix card?
looking for a netflix card deal myself. anyone has something coming up from woolies/coles?
Buy the MasterCard and then use it to buy netflix GCs
Waiting for someone to say they are going in the day before to hide the GCs in a random location in the store….
Sounds like only one lot of bonus points? "will not be awarded more than once for each gift card type". So can't buy an ebay card and a coles gift card and get 4000 points
If you buy a $50 eBay card and a $100 Coles Gift MasterCard, you’ll get 2000 Flybuys points for each card (i.e. 4000 Flybuys points in total), because they are two different types of cards.
If you buy a $100 Coles Gift MasterCard and a $250 Coles Gift MasterCard, you’ll only get 2000 Flybuys points, as they are the same type of card.
Is it one bonus per account or one bonus per type of card?