Hopefully a working vaccine can be approved and mass produced before then.
https://www.news.com.au/travel/travel-updates/health-safety/…
Good luck to Bain Capital, the Queensland Gov. and Qantas.
Maybe time to add to shorts on FLT & QAN?
No International Travel till Late 2021
mrvaluepack on 07/10/2020 - 16:57
Last edited 07/10/2020 - 16:58
Last edited 07/10/2020 - 16:58
Comments
I don't take the flu shot and if this is only going to offer the same level of protection (40% - 60%) then I won't be at the front of the queue either.
@Gronk: The flu shot is a random shot in the dark as well, they just have a bit of a guess as to what they reckon the flu might be like this year, and make up a cocktail that may or may not have any effect.
100% agreed. I have no problem with the tried and tested vaccines we have currently, no way in hell will I be getting some random rushed thing with who-knows-what long term consequences.
That's gonna be a big needle to pass a microchip
You can avoid the nails if you do not intend to travel overseas
Maybe they want the nails either way?
your going to take the tetanus shot right?
Rather drag his balls over cactus before having a tetanus shot
Nice idea actually! And let’s make this mandatory for everyone who refuse the vaccination with no medical reasons.
Any reason why?
If a vaccine has been through a rigorous series of tests and released with the approval of the medical community, would you not take one? I imagine this applies to all vaccines?
I'd certainly not take one rushed to market in 2020 but in the future if required to take an approved one, I will.
Pete Evans, is that you?
Do you have another link other than news.com.au ?
Yes, it's owned by the worst kind of scum in Australia.
Joe?
As far as news sites go, it's a pretty crap one. Mostly advertising and propaganda / puff pieces…
True. Its not informative but more entertaining.
Different publication but same owner: Don't even get me started on bias & propaganda in The Australian. They literally had an article talking about borders and premiers where they went: Federal govt (liberal) = good, Vic (labor) = bad, NSW (liberal) = good, QLD (labor) = bad, WA (labor) = bad, SA (liberal) = good. Their argument was that if you had the second wave (Vic) or closed your borders (QLD and WA) you were bad, but if you were pro keeping borders open as much as possible (NSW, SA, Federal) you were good. Therefore all the labor governments were bad, and all liberal governments were good.
Amusingly, The Australian completely omitted ACT and NT from their article, whose chief ministers are both labor, both have been quite reasonable on borders, and both didn't a second wave. So I guess that shows if you have a deep systematic bias, you just can't see you have a deep systematic bias?! Or maybe they just like "alternate facts"?
Murdoch media here remind me of the worst kind of bias found in US media (often also by Murdoch publications). That deep bias in media is very divisive, because people end up angry with the other side of politics. Look, if half the population here only received news of everything the Libs had done right, and everything Labor had done wrong; and the other half only received news of everything the Libs had done wrong, and everything Labor had done right; then don't you think those two halves of the population would end up angry with and distrustful of each other, and assume that the other side is devoid of all common sense & decency, and eventually we too would end up with a dysfunctional democracy? It's just toxic to a healthy society, and needs to be resisted at every opportunity.
I agree, but low-brow shit is a staple in Australian media. Newscorp, Fairfax, and even corporate messaging. See Telstra's 5g tweet last week.
Why do you people keep reading news.com like really out of the whole internet you choose that.
probably because it has the easiest to remember url
And no paywall…
news.com is owned by CNET.
Longer if you live in WA. CHO basically said, until there is no COVID-19, there will be no open boarders.
What about borders
Backpackers and au pairs.
They can board for 14 days only.
follow the money trail people .. follow the money
Probably makes sense, if the President and his inner circle can't protect themselves.
Many countries allow entry as long as certain negative tests are completed prior to travel, testing upon arrival and some other conditions.
I have family overseas that I will not be able to see and vice versa, have visited 59 countries, but what I worry about is that my parents are not able to ever see their friends and family who are at the 70+ years old age where life is a blessing each day.
Thanks for the tax cut which I will either pay off debt, save for a rainy door or leave it for the next available overseas holiday.
Lots of hysteria in this thread.
I won't be first in line for new vaccines, but plenty will be (the same people who bought that Samsung folding phone, I guess!).
If it proves safe, I'll probably get it after a year or two.
If that means I have to wait to travel internationally, I'll weigh that up in my decision making.Right now I way up decisions like this all the time when thinking about travel - is the risk of malaria too high to visit somewhere? Is a Zika virus outbreak too much of a threat?
The difference now is that most of the consequences of a poor decision impact me, so the government doesn't get involved. But if Australia is successful in suppressing the virus, a returning traveller could cause deaths in others in the community in people who haven't been vaccinated, or can't get the vaccine because of immune system vulnerabilities or whatever.
So I guess the medium term arrangement will be get vaccinated if you want to travel, and if you refuse to do so, or cannot, but still must travel, there will be quarantine arrangements for 14 days at each destination.
Such an arrangement preserves the rights of people to travel, while protecting the wider community, without mandating medical treatment - though the vaccine probably looks pretty good compared to a hefty quarantine delay and accommodation bill.
For some people, a discretionary 6 nights in Bali on the cheap will be worth the (probably quite low) risks of a vaccine. For others, they might only get it if they had to fly to see a dying relative. Others might just say "I'll wait and see."
And some will never take the vaccine, and still require quarantine in a decade - likely to be a different newspaper beat up then about the backwards anti-vaxxers still scared of a vaccine.
Well said.
for the first time in my life I have more than 2 week a/l saved
9 weeks leave accrued currently due to work demands, last year rollover, purchasing additional leave in advance and nowhere to go right now…
My old man hasn't been outside the country in decades. Settle down, petals.
But don't you understand, people just have to visit some foreign country.
Stop being ignorant there are a huge number of just reasons for people to need to visit overseas including reuniting with family, receiving medical care or treatment, immigration and emigration and so on.
That's why we have exemptions in place. Travel for the purpose of leisure is not important.
What a bizarre comment.
Yeah, stay at home. It's possible!
What's more bizarre are the number of entitled whingers who want to go to countries that don't want them.
What happened to the five minute Covid test they just announced ?
Quick test before departure then fly.
Same thing when arriving.
exactly. i'd rather a highly sensitive rapid covid test than a vaccine with 70% efficacy. If you're certain you're transporting non-infected individuals then what's the problem, you're not transporting the virus anywhere. Heck, you could do 20-30 tests during someone's average time from arrival at the airport to boarding the plane. Even if it's not 100% sensitive, if they're all negative then you'd be pretty happy transporting that person.
Wouldn't want a false positive rate thrown in there though :(
There is no "certain" you are transporting non infected individuals. Testing will almost certainly never be 100% accurate, if you have just contracted the virus you will almost certainly test negative for hours or days.
I have a feeling the test can't tell if you've recently caught it from someone.
You won’t test positive if you have only just been exposed to Covid, where in a few days you will. So if you want to travel unvaccinated, you’d need a complex regime of isolation then testing, with no contact with anyone who can’t be guaranteed free of Covid. Ie isolation, test negative, enter plane. Far more likely govts will demand all visitors require a vaccine, treat anti-vaxers as an unacceptable risk, but possibly develop a regime for anyone medically unable to be vaccinated.
Lots of countries doing that test and the rate of false positive is high. Of the 10 cases detected on people flying from Vietnam, all of them later show negative on the more accurate real-time PCR
What are you babbling on about. Virgin used your Velocity points to position themselves as a viable option for prospective investors. You were barred from your own Velocity points as this SCAM preceded.
I had 200 thousand Points, and I will do my best to never fly with this mob ever again.
As for the "JAB"… you know where you can stick that… why should we be experimented upon by force?
What are you babbling on about … who’s forcing you to be vaccinated?
Thanks OP, i just ordered my first VR headset. problem solved.
Typical vaccine development time frame is 7 to 12 years
There is good reason for this.
If a vacciine could be safely developed quicker then companies would do so.This so called fast-tracking is just taking dangerous short cuts and is full of HIGH RISK!
You have been warned
If a vacciine could be safely developed quicker then companies would do so.
You've skipped the profitability part of the equation. It was not profitable to develop a vaccine for SARS or MERS because the viruses didn't spread as widely.
When all the governments in the world start throwing money at a problem, it can become faster to develop things - running multiple R&D streams in parallel, for example.
Also many of the vaccines are being developed by research institutions (with pharma companies preparing to mass-produce them).
Safety protocols are still being followed, at least in Australia.
You've skipped the profitability part of the equation.
That's the concerning part. Big money going to whoever creates the vaccine first.
Probably why they don't want people using HCQ.
Do you know if they gave HCQ to Trump?
@abb: No idea.
Liberal MP Craig Kelly shares a lot about HCQ studies https://www.facebook.com/CraigKellyMP/
Or this one about vitamin D helping https://emerginnova.com/patterns-of-covid19-mortality-and-vi…
I mean, if I got covid, I'd want to give these a try. It's cheap/free and been around a long time. But yea, it's definitely low on the profitability scale. If I was big pharma without a conscience, I'd want this information blocked too.
Maybe it's all nonsense. Maybe not
@ozhunter: Given Trumps treatment was NOT HCQ and he would love nothing more than to say he was right I think it is pretty safe to say HCQ is NOT the magic bullet a lot of the conspiracy sites are pushing.
Can you post some deals on snake oil while you’re at it? I’m nearly out
You have been warned
Thanks.
That was decades ago. According to medical professionals the last vaccine to be developed took ~4 years. In this day and age i wouldn't be surprised at the speed of the COVID vaccine.
Although the vaccines are new, it would be the same ingredients that are typically used in vaccines anyway. Most vaccines share the same or similar ingredients list.
I’d be getting that vaccine if it will allow me to travel and see my family and friends overseas again.
I won't be travelling overseas which means I'll be walking around Australia with the little critters as protection against the vaccine.
It is not about the "ingredients." It is about how the compound itself interacts with the body.
Some vaccines have been linked to causing severe neurological diseases such as Guillain-Barre syndrome which was caused due to a rushed vaccine program in the United States in the 70's.Some vaccines have been linked to causing severe neurological diseases such as Guillain-Barre syndrome which was caused due to a rushed vaccine program in the United States in the 70's.
https://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/guillain-barre-sy…
And I quote:
Studies suggest that it is more likely that a person will get GBS after getting the flu than after vaccination. It is important to keep in mind that severe illness and death are associated with flu, and getting vaccinated is the best way to prevent flu infection and its complications.
This is the problem with looking at these things. Everyone compares vaccines to "neutral" as a counterfactual. But the counterfactual is not neutral, it is getting the disease. If you had the choice of a vaccine which had a 0.001% of killing you, which will protect you from a disease you are bound to get which had a 0.1% chance of killing you. Would you take it?
You can never evaluate risks vs. 0 risk, you have to evaluate risks vs. the alternative. In the case of the vaccine, the alternative is getting the disease.
Also, I just wanted to point out that in a later post on this thread, you advocated for opening borders because coronavirus is "basically in every country". So your position is just inconsistent. You propose that we just open up the borders and allow people to get COVID-19, which is a far higher risk, but you're against people taking a vaccine that is far lower risk. What?
The question will be what happens with travel insurance?
Will that vaccine and testing be enough or are they going to wipe their hands of it as it means they'd need to pay out?
Then who will take the risk of travel for personal trips if you might get stuck with a large medical bill if you catch it?
If I still have a job by the time a vaccine is out then i'd take it, I was previously traveling OS heavily and this is really causing issues right now being in VIC not even able to leave the 5kms let alone the state!These travel bans are ridiculous. Corona virus is already in every major country in the entire world.
There are so many people suffering unjust separation from their families and loved ones.
Open the border now! Require a 15 minute test before boarding at the traveler cost, it's only $15.
We could have the entire industry open again. These restrictions on not being able to leave the country are akin to North Korea! A total disgrace!If we pull together and try hard enough, we too could become like the United States!
We need another 280m people.
Im sure China would be happy to help out.
What is your point?
The EU has open borders within nations, its makes no difference to the spread when it is already everywhere. US has largely closed international borders but no restrictions between travelling to different states. Again it makes no difference.
Australia's restrictions are totally arbitrary and not based on any evidence whatsoever.
The lock downs and closed borders actually spread the virus quicker because it caused people to rush home to Victoria from overseas who then rapidly spread the virus here.
Of course with a little help from Dan's total failure of a quarantine scheme that is responsible for 99% of all infections and deaths in this state.99% of the deaths are because of the deregulation of private aged care facilities allowing for unskilled and casual workers to spread the virus rapidly amongst many at risk elderly people. The policies that allowed for this were brought in by your mate Howard, and was not acted on by the current aged care minister.
It's really easy to blame one man for this second wave, but it's mostly people like you, who probably haven't seriously undertaken science classes at a high school level, who don't understand the reasons behind public health policy.
@CaptainNewspeak: Your views could not be any more transparent. Another zealot who refuses to admit the failures of the Dan Andrews government. The judiciary inquiry has been very clear, the failure of the his joke of a quarantine scheme lead to this mess in Victoria. 99% of cases and deaths all linked to his governments decision.
It is the same reason they all conveniently don't know who made the decision…
What gutless cowards they are. Even the most left wing sources acknowledge these facts. It was a total disaster.
https://www.theguardian.com/australia-news/2020/aug/18/hotel…You blaming the workers for spreading the virus is like blaming a farmer his crops flooded when the government opened the dam up stream. Dan opened the coronavirus dam. Unfortunately you don't have a good argument and you don't argue in good faith so you rely on typical weak and pathetic personal attacks. You accuse me of not finishing high school when anyone who reads your post will see quite transparently you are intellectually corrupt with your baseless and disgraceful personal attacks. Give yourself a pat you really are a true intellectual.
@zombrex: Okay. Have fun shaking your fist perpetually and being on the wrong side of history in every key issue because daddy Rupert told you to 👍
Another zealot who refuses to admit the failures of the Dan Andrews government. The judiciary inquiry has been very clear, the failure of the his joke of a quarantine scheme lead to this mess in Victoria. 99% of cases and deaths all linked to his governments decision.
You don't seem to have any nuance. Is Andrews and his government responsible for mismanaging hotel quarantine? Yes. Does that change any of what CaptainNewspeak said? No.
It is possible for there to be multiple causal factors for a particular outcome and you just seem to ignore or obfuscate facts when it's convenient to suit your narrative.
Just think about it for a second. Is it possible for Andrews and his government to have mishandled hotel quarantine AND for the aged-care sector to have significant structural problems that made the issue much worse? Of course. The world is a complex place and reduction down to absurd simplicity is a hallmark of lazy analysis.
@p1 ama: The world is black and white.
Experts are mostly wrong.
Complex, nuanced problems require simple, obvious solutions.
You're 100% right. Australia and New Zealand are doing so terribly with coronavirus because we just don't have the guts to open our borders wide and let it run riot.
I'm embarrassed to live in such a wimpy country. We need to man up and spread this virus to every corner of our continent as soon as possible.
@john71: You could not make up a more nonsense strawman argument if you tried.
Imagine being so intellectually corrupt. Just shows you don't have a genuine argument.@zombrex: "I wanna travel! I want my beers! I don't care how many people get infected! Waah waah waah!"
You sound like a baby having a tantrum.
Please do travel. For the sake of the rest of us, make it a one-way ticket.
is there a test that can have results in 15 minutes?
Yes, in fact private companies are rolling them out very quickly at their own cost because they want to keep business going. We are seeing this in the mining and energy industries.
The private sector is infinitely more capable and nimble at implementing change compared to the government. A test that is done daily with a 98% accuracy rate in combination with masks and social distancing is massive game changer. The airline industry could also adopt they same procedures. $10 is a very small cost to put on the price of a plane ticket especially when the lock down is costing billions.In Japan they have been repatriating citizens using fast and super accurate tests that are completed on an average of 30 mins and up to 2 hours maximum. My friend works in the testing center at Haneda. We could use this system to start bring back all our citizens tomorrow. The government has capacity for 150,000 capacity tests a day in Victoria alone. But we have a return limit of 6000 citizens a week in all of Australia…. just think about that for a second It is totally absurd. Australian government has been incompetent when compared to other nations and willingly ignores that there are solutions to these problems that could have been implemented six months ago.
Ah - there's always a simple, obvious solution to every complex (and in this case, possibly lethal) problem, isn't there?
If only the government listened to the smart people who post on Ozbargain forums, everything would be so much better.
If only the government listened to the smart people who post on Ozbargain forums, everything would be so much better.
Best quote of the day!
@john71: Would certainly be smarter than the clowns who decided that using dodgy security contractors for security who find and use only foreign low skilled immigrant workers through gumtree and then provide them with no training and tell them to reuse PPE would be a good idea…..
@zombrex: Using incompetent private contractors was a terrible idea. Dan Andrews and the rest of his government should be investigated and, if found guilty of negligence, punished electorally and legally.
But do you know what? The horse has bolted. We need to suppress infections in Melbourne or the other states will refuse to open their borders to Victoria. The only way of achieving the low infection rates demanded by other states is to wear masks, lock down Melbourne and tightly limit international travel.
Look what's happening to America and Europe. Nobody - aside from a few selfish halfwits on social media - wants to see that sort of thing here.
Hotel quarantine administration, I think, is the reason of the cap on returning citizens; not testing capacity.
I do think that the cap should be increased/removed and defense force personnel be used if required (Dan, are you listening?).
Why would you get a test before boarding?
Your suggestion is oversimplified and your fake outrage just makes you sound like a botIt's cut-and-pasted claptrap.
Not sure what his agenda is, though.
Nonsense.
A Russian top scientist said vaccines are supposed to take at least 2 years minimum to determine its safety so I'll probably wait about 6 months before i get the vaccine so I know how safe it actually is. I know there is still a risk since the vaccine is still being rushed but the pros outweigh the cons in my mind. My concern is if I wait to take the vaccine, cases could spike and I get covid. Might be safer to take it asap once cases do spike but I laugh at the hysteria over single digit cases of death each day. I understand cases can exponentially grow so there is a cause for concern but hundreds of people die from other diseases everyday.
Also on a side note, I don't understand why governments from other countries aren't more pissed off and taking a stronger stance against China. They literally crippled the economy of the whole world and are picking fights with everyone right now. I know it's not all their fault since I can imagine a lot of third world countries would have tried to hide the virus too but the least they could do is let investigators find out the origins of the virus so something like this doesn't happen again.
It's already out. Finding its origin now is a waste of resources. May in ten years is so when things starts to calm down.
We should focus our resources on getting back to business.
The longer we wait the more China can cover up the incident and I think finding out it's origin is kind of important to prevent this kind of thing from happening again, no?
@baskinghobo: No.
Finding the origin of the virus isn't going to prevent future infections.
The seasonal flu comes like clockwork to every country in the world. This happens every year and we are no closer to preventing it from happening again.
@whooah1979: if the flu had a 50% mortality rate, I'm sure more people would take the vaccines, especially since it's more understood and the flu would almost be eradicated. I'm not saying finding the origin of covid will stop us getting covid again in the future but it could help us with future pandemics from new viruses. Top scientists have been warning us about pandemics for a long time now.
Top scientists have been warning us about pandemics for a long time now.
They warned of a self-fulfilling prophecy.
@whooah1979: You could say that about almost anything. The point is you should have some measures in place to reduce the impact.
Also on a side note, I don't understand why governments from other countries aren't more pissed off and taking a stronger stance against China.
It's because China is the largest market in the world. Every country literally depends on the Chinese market as they sell resources to China and buy cheap goods from China. When you are practically a monopoly, people have to bend the knee.
I work in consulting and can guarantee you that anything developed in a rush and under external pressure never ends well. This vaccine is no different.