Better late than never..
Half of FTTN will be upgraded to FTTP by 2023.
HFC and FTTC will be upgraded to support up to Gigabit speeds.
Fibre will be installed in the street and the fibre lead in will be installed on request.
25,000 jobs over the next 2 years.
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-09-23/nbn-co-shake-up-upgra…
-_- Waste waste waste… I hope someone is held accountable for this. History being written by the winners, prob will brush this under the carpet. 10yrs down the line, the techs won't know what tech each property has and will need 10 different sets of tools and training
Name checks out
Believe it when i see it
Whittled down to a few hundred thousand by 2028 and double the expected cost…
Why double the expected cost… when the sky is the limit?
Waste of time and money. Liberals aren't the people to do it.
Do it once for everyone and sink Foxtel while you're at it.
yeppers
So… They are now doing what should of been done in the first place.
Should be noted Fibre will not be rolled out in areas that are serviced by HFC and FTTC
Should be noted Fibre will not be rolled out in areas that are serviced by HFC and FTTC
Which are some of the most educated electorates in Sydney and Melb.
Yeah 100%
FTTN has been an absolute waste of money and resources, this should of been done from day 1
Further to my comment
FTTC and HFC will be upgraded but not repalced with Fibre
FTTC and HFC will be upgraded but not repalced with Fibre
To be honest this doesn't bother me that much. We're generally talking <100m of copper vs fibre. I don't see that making a huge difference.
Yes, it should have been fibre all the way in the first place, but FTTC is a good compromise and much better than FTTN (which shouldn't have existed in the first place, and it'd likely not result in much change for my place being behind a RIM which is similar to FTTN IMO)
@Chandler: The only reason this bothers me a bit, is that so many FTTC homes (including mine) already had the old copper replaced with new copper, even the guy doing the change said that it is easier and cheaper to just run fibre. But oh well. Happy with my current 100/20
i'm on HFC, non nbn yet.
it's plenty fast where i am, and has been rock solid for 10+ years.
i don't think it was/is necessary to upgrade it to fibre
i don't even bother paying for the speed upgrade
Many people including us got usable bb many years earlier thanks to FTTN. Many people were outside the 4.2km limit for adsl2 and others could not even get adsl1.
Not everyone lives in the cbd.
If they hadn't wasted two years redesigning everything then you likely would have gotten BB at about the same time - but done properly (fibre).
What do you mean redesign everything? Are you saying all of Australia was designed as fttp? This is incorrect.
I do not understand why people are negging this comment. Haters will hate i guess. There is nothing wrong with the above comment.
Because Ozb. Also because people who know half truths (at best) think they're experts. I come across Dunning-Kruger effect on a daily basis. Of course amplified on the internet.
Should be noted Fibre will not be rolled out in areas that are serviced by HFC
Well that sucks. HFC is nowhere near as stable as FTTP.
i am on HFC 250 and i get pretty damn consistent speeds with zero drop outs etc
NBN on HFC has not been reliable for me. Since I've been working from home due to COVID, I've had three outages, each lasting around five hours. There was also a six day outage last December and a number of dropouts which I'm not keeping track of.
@trongy: It was similar for me, worse actually. I kept complaining and complaining and complaining. After about 14 months of complaining it finally got fixed and has been working without dropouts for about 3 months straight now.
But leading up to that it was just an endless stream of utterly incompetent NBN technicians coming to my house and never properly fixing it (and seeming not to care either). Absolutely everything at my house was replaced over and over, never made a difference. In the end they were left with nothing to replace (and me going mental telling them "do not come here and replace everything like you did 4 weeks ago and tell me it's fixed!!") so they then re-cabled part of the street outside my house (they had already re-tapped my connection prior to that) and that fixed it. It was due to 25 year old original Foxtel cabling that had corroded.
My neighbours had the same problem (one a school teacher trying to run zoom classes!!) and got sick of complaining and just put up with it, or would have to use their mobile phones as hotspots all the time. And guess what, their issues went away at the same time mine was fixed.
HFC is an absolute joke for so many people. The technology is ok, but NBN do not give a crap about the network. If they did they would have rolled out new cable rather than just 'hope' the original cable TV cabling from 25 years ago still works ok.
@Brendoo: yer this doesn't really sounds like a HFC problem at such,
just a bit of bad luck + some crappy troubleshooting, but you could get that with fibre too (albeit newer, so hopefully less)
@Brendoo: @Brendoo we are on the horrid HFC journey. Signed up to the top NBN plan and was swapped from the Optus cable to the Telstra cable and have had dropouts multiple times every day since. I often use my mobile data when working from home to ensure I don’t drop out of a teleconference. Visits from multiple techs, replacing different things that have made no difference.
The Optus cable was much better, not to mention cheaper.
@trongy: HFC is totally stable, provided it's configured properly. If you're having that many dropouts, log a fault each time it happens. Our NBN was misconfigured and there was too much noise in the signal, so we would constantly get booted.
Also, sign up to AussieBB if you want actual decent support.
I have quite a lot of power outages in my area, maybe due to new builds?. Every time the power goes out so does the NBN even though all my equipment is battery backed. It's frustrating that they didn't build HFC with backup power. Also the latency is way higher. Pings of 30+ instead of 2-3 to Google DNS.
When it's working I'm rocking on my 250 plan. I have had two outages recently due to blown power supplies with the second one I suspect as a result of the first. I used to be a HFC tech 20 years ago and did one of the first FTTH roll-outs in Australia. The number of Copper connections, Screws, O-Rings, Amplifiers and other electronics to get your signal to you on HFC is thousands and thousands compared to FTTH. A FTTH connection should have one mechanical connection at the pit and that connection has an O-Ring seal waterproof to something like 5 Metres. HFC can provide the speeds but the lifetime maintenance costs are much much higher.
Thing about HFC and FTTN is they are simply a lottery.
You can have them and they are great, never a problem. You can also have them and constant endless problems, poor speeds and drop outs.
Its just a gamble. One that no one should have to put up with.
Not to mention it means we probably aren't seeing decent uploads any time soon…
never had any problems with my HFC. maybe drops out once a year.
So it's slowly creeping towards what Labour initially proposed in 2006.
I guess we can finally get the speeds we pay for once this is finally implemented in 2034 and perhaps move up a few spots to be in the top 40.
Hence the term "proposed". Hardly a vote getter shot from the hip though as they followed through and the RFP in 2009 to bypass copper and go FTTP is what Liberal are only now starting to see was the correct path the entire time.
11 years and billions and billions of dollars already wasted and now they've just announced exactly the same thing that was put forward by Labour in 2009 yet they vehemently rejected and shut down in 2010. Now more time and money will go down the drain.
By the time this is finished we will still be behind as FTTP was the way to go in 2009. It's 2020. This isn't about political parties, it's about sheer (profanity) greed and stupidity. People have a right to be pissed off.
FTTP is the only way to go. Even in 2020. I've had access to gigabit speeds now for over a year. And if we were ever to need 10Gb or 100Gb+ home internet we'd only need to upgrade the termination equipment. 5G, 6G, 7G, wireless what ever it is won't come close to the stability and low latency of fibre in the real world when you not standing directly under a tower (especially if the tower is on fire and being danced around by cave men).
Fibre was the only answer from the start, this multi technology bullshit only things more complicated and more expensive. Allowing execs to use NBN as a revolving door of tax payer bonuses.
I lived in a property that had Labor's original NBN configuration in it. It was one of the first to get it and it was fiber to the premises.
The connection was so unbelievably fast. What we have now, thanks to Murdoch and his cronies, the LNP, is just dogshit by comparison.
Although unfortunately even if you have the tech initially planned you still get screwed by the "compensate for HFC and make copper users feel better" plan speeds/pricing.
Labor's initial proposal was to build FTTN in partnership with the industry. This was when the LNP first called FTTN fraudband.
When no one played ball Labor went with FTTP.
I'm not sure if this can remediate the NBN fiasco, or if they are just adding $3.5B to the fiasco. We will have to wait and see.
Generous to assume it'll be the said price. Wasn't the Liberals NBN meant to be $30b?
So the Liberal are finally accepting that the original FTTP plan was the right choice.
They won't admit it. Probably hoping people have forgotten everything they said over a decade ago.
Amazingly they are saying "not a backflip" and "was always the plan". I don't know how they can keep a straight face while saying it, but that's party politicians for you…
You should have heard Turnbull on the project last night. 'Fibre has no virtue over copper', 'if we didn't bring in nbn nobody would be working from home today' - WHAT A LOAD OF RUBBISH!
Did he forget the Labor NBN was meant to be done (completely) by 2021? Or is he just assuming Labor lie as bad as they do in regards to build cost and time…
Literally all that idiot has to do is shut up or pretend he always new this. But I guess Mr "I'll take fttc when everyone else gets fttn" can't stomach that.
Politics is horse trading. That "Australia Needs Tony" front page had a cost. They knew what was the right choice for them.
The whole point of mtm is to be upgradable to fttp… Lol
In other news…
Government to introduce Carbon pricing!!
It also said that you would have to request it. We tried to upgrade our speed and were told that we wouldn't be able to access it. We're on the 20 speed and were happy to pay a bit more, but they can't offer it. Does this mean we could ask for this FTTP from our FTTN? Obviously we'll believe it when we see it actually start happening. Funnily enough, my husband works for Telstra and has to rely on their FTTN to do his job remotely. It's good, but prone to dropouts. And there's nothing he can do about it.
Your options are to wait up to 3 years for NBN and request FTTP if your suburb is selected or pay $3k to 28k for FTTN-FTTP uplift completed in a couple months.
Why do you have to pay when the Govt is offering it on request now. My understanding is they pay to the house - you should only have to pay for inside connections.
The new FTTP plans will be quite a few $$$ steeper than the cost of current plans. This is not a free gift from NBN Co; it’s a money-making investment.
@Ozpit: It's because they realise that 5g will eat their network and the want to sell it. So the need more fibre in order to sell the NBN to (probably) Telstra.
If it was free now, everyone would ask for it. It isn't free now.
@mjwills: Upgrade from wire to fiber is free just have to upgrade your monthly plan, which I am sure will not be under $100. Per month. So not cheap But less than 3k-28k!!!
The government is offering a FTTP upgrade to half of FTTN users within 3 years.
The other half of FTTN, FTTN users who don't want to wait up to 3 years and all of FTTB, FTTC, Fixed Wireless and HFC to FTTP is still a end user paid upgrade that you can get done in a couple months.
@Twix: At least you will be able to get a free quote online fairly quickly when they release the new portal for tech choice.
My office uses FTTN. With the node located about 100-200m away, I am getting speeds up to 106mbps download and over 36mbps upload. Do you know how far away is your node? Did they say you can upgrade but they can't guarantee faster speeds or just that it is simply not available?
I was stuck on 25Mbps as my max sync was only just higher. Line length 1.2KM
Then recently after an un announced outage, I checked the line stats (ABB) and I was connected to the micronode with a line length of 200M
spersephone is right that there is no where to register that you want faster speeds.
The statements from nbn mention 'fibre deeper into the suburbs' and several statements that support FTTC. Then the comment about fibre lead-ins.
This all timed for After next election.
For FTTC users, it is still 1 connection per house and unless they are prepared to replace the NTD, no possibility of 1Gbps down.
- G.Fast does not support 1Gbps down, even in labs.
Being 200m to the micronode, might be worth asking your ISP to upgrade you to the next speed tier for a month to test out actual speeds. I have FTTP at home and had low expectations of FTTN so I was blown away when my office internet achieved 106mbps download speed.
How do I find where my node is, and the line length?
In regional (but urban) Qld, I was on a 100Mbps plan 3 years ago, but it maxed out at 30Mbps off-peak, and at end of contract I was only offered 50Mbps or lower plan. Now with ABB, and still maxes out at 30, but usually much slower and often under 10Mbps. Hoping for something better …
Our node is about 3 houses away, so we had high hopes that we could gain the faster speed but they say our line is incapable of it.
3 houses length of copper cable should not create any speed issues. Sometimes the closest node is not necessary the one you are connected to. Not sure how accurate this is but:-
http://nbnmtm.australiaeast.cloudapp.azure.com/
From that map, zoom down to your address and click on it. It will show the Distribution Area. Then look for that number on the Node when you go for a walk/drive.
credit : https://crowdsupport.telstra.com.au/t5/home-broadband/nbn-no…
http://nationalmap.gov.au used to have the broadband map that shows the nodes but it's gone now.
@trex: Thanks for that. According to that map my house/parts of the suburb show FTTN (no speed estimate)…
Considering NBN got installed in March at my suburb I'm unlikely to get any faster speeds just yet.
If you're wondering what likely speeds you'll get just plug in your address here:
https://myrepublic.net/au/
It was accurate for me ((42-47mbps up).
NBN CO is one big mess. Shoulda just paid that billionaire from Mexico to build it for us.
Contractors are making a killing.
I'm sure it's just a coincidence they'll practically be building it twice over.
That should read good stuff up Liberals :P
Here are the numbers as of August.
Aussie BB have over 5080 users on Gigabit and 2564 users of a total of 3780 users on 250Mbps.
Vodafone have 5 users on Gigabit.
@Twix: Wonder how that compares to the total amount of folks on Fibre?
I'm on the 250/25 plan personally. I'd go for gigabit but $150 is a bit much to stomach right now.
@N1NJ4W4RR10R: In June 2019 NBN had more than 1 million active users on FTTP. I don't think the 2020 numbers are out.
Aussie BB have over 5080 users on Gigabit and 2564 users of a total of 3780 users on 250Mbps.
Vodafone have 5 users on Gigabit.
Aussie BB users are the one who would actually know what type of nbn they are on and care more about it. I was wondering the the major telcos. Vodafone only having 5 is surprisingly low.
In June 2019 NBN had more than 1 million active users on FTTP. I don't think the 2020 numbers are out.
But at what speeds? Of course you'd have to be on FTTP if that's the only type available.
@ozhunter: Aussie BB was one of the first ISPs off the block and got the media attention. Vodafone and Optus were months late and I can't find any new sign up number articles. Telstra and TPG don't offer Gigabit.
50Mbps is most popular across all NBN.
As somebody on Whirlpool said, out will come the colour-coded spreadsheets.
What about the other half? 2026?
Pay for FTTP out of your own pocket or Malcolm just move house that already has FTTP Turnbull.
I feel there was something subliminal in your message there but I can't quite put my finger on it
Rename the damn thing to Fiber Broadband Network and just focus on fiber. Some asshat might try to lump 3G, 4G, 5G, HFC, Copper or some inferior technology into it for political reasons.
Might? They've already done that with Telstra/Optus's HFC networks. The folks on that just get HFC upgrades to support 250/25 or gigabit.
Who wants to spend $150 a month on high-speed NBN?
“the average price people are willing to spend when they go searching for a new NBN plan is $67.66 a month, at which price they'll get an average download speed of 47mbps”
This is a price point that is very close to the cheapest you can get. NBN Co deliberately discontinued the cheaper plans.
“of the 10 per cent of customers already paying for NBN's fastest mainstream speed of 100mbps, 81 per cent describe themselves as satisfied with their speed. So the low-hanging fruit, those who have already demonstrated a willingness to pay more money for more broadband speed, and who still aren't satisfied with their speed, might represent as little as 2 per cent of the market.”
No mention here of how many of those satisfied customers were previously connected to cable internet which may have served them just as well if not better than the NBN.
People on the “slowest NBN plan who one might expect to be least likely to spend $150 month, describe themselves as satisfied with their current speed more often than not: NBN12, as the plan is known, has a satisfaction level of 65 per cent”
Since long before NBN started we have always known that for the vast majority of residential, non-business users the future is wireless. 4g is enough for some people and 5g will attract more data only customers. And as time goes by new wireless technologies will also arrive which will leave the NBN looking even more unnecessary than it is today.
Of course there are the people who insist we spend the money upgrading the NBN now in the hope that maybe, possibly there’s a chance we find a need for the additional bandwidth in the future. But that makes no financial or technological sense whatsoever.
So why upgrade what was a bad idea in the first place? To burn taxpayers money? To help out the entertainment industry?
I for one an am Australian who likes to find bargains. That’s why I come to OzBargain. And the NBN represents an appalling waste of our money.
No mention here of how many of those satisfied customers were previously connected to cable internet which may have served them just as well if not better than the NBN.
Cable internet upload speeds were woeful in most cases. Terrible for, as an example, 6 people trying to do a Zoom call in the same house at the same time.
Your argument seems to be "for many people who don't use the internet much, they don't need an upgrade right now". This is 100% true. But faster speeds open up opportunities (like homeschooling during a worldwide pandemic, for example) that would be hard to service any other way. Does 5G solve some similar issues? Sure it does (although latency isn't great for gaming etc). But wireless, by its very nature, doesn't scale as well as wired.
my old cable was faster than speedboost nbn
still plenty of people that dont have access to nbn yet, maybe that could finish the first rollout/cockup before entertaining an upgrade
Well, it all stinks!
Im on a 25/5 plan and have a max line speed of around 12 to 13 down… and obviously 5 to 6 up.. with fttn..
My 4g phone in my work building runs at 22 down and 11 up..
Now to scrap the CVCs.
Another band aid with little adhesive - even if they go through with it which I doubt from a government that promises big and delivers little.
Guys, guys, guys… please note that the new faster FTTP plans will be $$$ steeper than current plans.
I think it is safe to assume that faster speeds will be more expensive, yes.
It's physically painful watching liberals handle the NBN.
They have to cater to their Alzheimer’s base
It's painful but I am in the country on wireless not much better than now what did ziggy from hellstra say, they don't need any faster than 2400 baud, shite I still remember the 300 baud coupling for your rotary phone….
I am getting old
It's all hype…. you have to ask for it and prove you need it.
The average older gen will be knocked back the moment they say… oh the odd email, and what is the internet…
So your tax money will be spent on gamers
Automobile was all hype. Who need roads when we got donkey and horses?
I assume you don't work from home. A stable connection is pretty much a necessity, which is what FTTP would provide.
Ugh. Over 65 year olds getting to vote. The world be a much better place without their self centred short sighted votes
https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/thread/9qq4r7r9