Is Optus "Throttling" My nbn Speed Tier?

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Optus

• 

  IVI on 22/09/2020 - 14:09

  -1

  Could it be a Hardware issue.

  Modems have been the only issue stopping our NBN
  (from NBN100, a few years ago,m thru 2x NBN50's,
  since then. Their performance drops, then they quit &
  need to be replaced.)

  Some folks pay more for modem of their choice,
  sourced -beyond- their providers, but I'm not aware
  of whether they got any longer periods of
  "top performance" from their "higher end" modems.)

  Oh, at least 1 outage occurred shortly after a lightning
  storm in the area. Maybe we should have switched-
  Off the modem & disconnected it from NBN-cable…?

  • 

    pjetson on 22/09/2020 - 14:11

    +3

    With FTTC, you don't get a choice of modem.

    By the way, IVI, why has your line width increased?

    • 

      pinchies on 22/09/2020 - 14:29

      +1

      Like IVI said, they upgraded their modem. More band width now. 🙃

  • 

    ronnknee on 23/09/2020 - 15:56

    Why do you
    type like this?

• 

  pjetson on 22/09/2020 - 14:11

  +1

  When you say that you've reported the problem but you're getting nowhere, what do you mean exactly? Do they send a technician out but the problem is not there when the technician comes to your house?

  Do your immediate neighbours have the same trouble, at the same time? Each FTTC DPU in the street connects up to four houses/premises to the NBN.

  If it's only your house that has the problem, and turning off your nbn box fixes the problem every time, then there seems to be something wrong with your nbn box.

• 

  thwarted on 22/09/2020 - 15:40

  Getting nowhere in that their solution is to reset the NBN box and leave it at that, but experience shows it will just happen again at some point. They don't have knowledge or visability of any setting that might be the cause. A replacement NBN box may be the next step, but to me it sounds like it's an ISP setting that is the issue. Still, replacing the box would fix/narrow the problem down - just waiting on any insights from the ozbargain community before taking that step.

  Immediate neighbours have not experienced the issue, but they are not with Optus and possibly have different usage patterns, or ones that don't act as triggers for the "downgrade" I seem to be getting.

  • 

    pjetson on 22/09/2020 - 22:07

    Immediate neighbours have not experienced the issue, but they are not with Optus

    It doesn't matter who they're with, they're with NBN, and they share the same FTTC DPU out in the street, then the same fibre. If they don't have the same problem as you at the same time as you, then that pretty well rules out a problem with the NBN infrastructure out in the street.

    If the problem fixes itself when you turn off your NBN modem, then it's also difficult to see how the problem could be at the Optus end.

    • 

      thwarted on 22/09/2020 - 23:40

      Yes it's a tricky one. The service just occasionally changes from a fully functional 50Mbps service to a fully functional 25Mbps service and gets stuck there. Not sure what the trigger is yet, and my traffic patterns look innocuous, so really relying on a bit of analysis from Optus at this stage.

      If I get the NBN box switched and it still happens, and Optus can't identify why, I'd consider changing ISPs and hope for the best.

      Or maybe a simpler alternative might be to upgrade to a 100Mbps service for a month and see what happens.

      Jeez, these first world problems are taxing aren't they :-)

• 

  resisting the urge on 22/09/2020 - 16:01

  +1

  Congestion usually occurs due to:

  i). the segment in your NBN network becoming congested (in which case your neighbours may notice it at the same time you do, if on your segment (as they most usually are with HFC, and less commonly are with other provisioning topologies), or when
  ii). your Service Provider runs out of bandwidth at their Internet connection point, (a gateway, but not one that works on Layer 2, so you are prevented from seeing it having trouble from behind your modem). This prevents any transparency for consumers and lethargic/recalcitrant service providers, so makes troubleshooting NBN service performance practically impossible. It was done by NBN as part of Our Great & Glorious Government's Grand Design for a controlled and connected future.
  iii). Too much utilisation overwhelming your modem/gateway, caused by other devices connecting that you might not be aware of, so be sure to do your testing in isolation (using just one trusted device on your home network to collect the performance data).

  All you see is connection speeds dropping, and/or packets getting lost. Your neighbours can only provide additional diagnostics info for you to check if they are with the same provider, unless both of you are on HFC and have a congestion problem in your local segment (typically most noticeable after 3pm on weekdays when the kids are coming home and jumping online).

  To get something done you have to log the impact at your end, without anything else on your network causing it. Collect and collate this data over a week or more, provide it to your provider, and encourage them to do something about it. Once they do, or don't, you will know if you want to remain paying them for the service, or find another.

  • 

    pjetson on 22/09/2020 - 22:13

    if on your segment (as they most usually are with HFC, and less commonly are with other provisioning topologies)

    The OP said he has FTTC, not HFC. FTTC uses a fibre-connected DPU out in the street that feeds up to four houses over individual copper cables to the houses. The DPU is powered by the FTTC modems in the houses that it feeds, back over the copper.

    • 

      resisting the urge on 23/09/2020 - 11:47

      @pjetson, thanks. I mention HFC for the benefit of others, though it may not be obvious, as NBN's MTM makes all such discussions a dog's breakfast for consumers having trouble, let alone anyone else. Certainly where consumers connect via fibre they will not suffer the bandwidth/contention hard limits that FTTN & HFC does.

      If at any point there is copper in the link, whether it be in the exchange, the street, the home's connection to the street, etc. then this is yet another aspect to troubleshoot when problems are suspected. In FTTC as the last few metres of the service are specific to the premises, this is less likely to be a problem and upstream traffic contention more likely, certainly.

      I imagine what you'd want to do is log the upstream connection speeds the FTTC modem negotiates (at least check it is no re-establshing connections at lower rates indicating a line fault between it and the DPU) and see if this correlates with the connectivity problems (i.e. is a problem, contributes to it, or is the one and only cause).

      • 

        pjetson on 23/09/2020 - 13:39

        log the upstream connection speeds the FTTC modem negotiates

        I don't think this information is available to the user. At least, I haven't found any way to get it.

        • 

          resisting the urge on 23/09/2020 - 16:06

          @pjetson: It is not yet clear what can be accessed remotely on the FTTC modem, by the user or the owner. So I looked into it to see why it is getting so bad, and found out:

          The DPU that our modem powers is in a pit out in the street, and connects to the FTTC. Controlled by a Persistent Management Agent managed by NBNCo, the DPU has a number of failure scenarios forseen in the design spec; such as it must generate temperature alarms, reduce performance, and thermally shutdown when internal temperatures exceed particular thresholds. As well as the temperature sensor, there is a switch that detects the opening of the enclosure, the status of both may be read on demand by the PMA, and may raise an alarm. The PMA has frame (traffic) related sensors and controls that are fed by each DPU, so that user traffic can be 'prioritised' (on layer 2) through eight 'shared strict priority queues' (four up and four down).

          Performance monitoring is implemented in the DPU, by collecting User Ethernet frame counts, uplink PHY/MAC data and copper drop data, amongst other things. It is responsible for keeping the current and prior 15 minute interval for each item monitored. All other historical counters beyond the 1 previous interval are maintained in the PMA.

          But that's what's in the DPU (out in the street). What is in the NTC, which is in the home? What environmental factors, traffic monitoring, alerting and controls are, or can be, shoe-horned into the NTC, is unclear. Not that it is needed, given what is in the DPU: The only data left to collect on the productconsumer is audible or visual.

          Privacy aside, the upshot is that service performance, traffic, link and historical info is collected and managed centrally, and not shared or otherwise made available to the consumer

          Apart from the apparent operation of the customer's software over layer 3, and the colour of a light on their NTD, the only people who have any visibility is NBNCo and the people they sell/share information or access to their systems to. I guess this means that a savvy or lucky consumer might have a good service provider, and could ask for and get a sub-set of this when it might help resolve problems they notice. And there are some Service Providers will make an effort to make it available to consumers- but it is seldom more than a rudimentary service status page. Having 'a sea of red' each time there is an incident always enthuses Management to stop sharing service quality information.

          So for most of us, we have to rely on cost-conscious providers to answer the phone, understand the problem and escalate the issues we' experience.

          How is it that almost everything NBN is smoke and mirrors, and straight out of Chapter 1 of the Technology 101 Manual: 'How to deploy technology with any risk of being held accountable'.

• 

  Associatedsingingwolf @ Optus Accessories on 22/09/2020 - 16:03

  This happens sometimes depending on usage in the area. Mine ranges quite a bit as well and I am on the 100mps plan. In the past it was 4pm to 9pm, now with COVID, it's all over the place.

  Ask for a new NBN modem just in case.

  • 

    thwarted on 22/09/2020 - 23:48

    Yep, next step is a replacement NBN box. The problem isn't congestion, it's that the service just occasionally changes from a fully functional 50Mbps service to a fully functional 25Mbps service and gets stuck there. Not sure what the trigger is yet, and my traffic patterns look innocuous, so really relying on a bit of analysis from Optus at this stage.

• 

  futureminime on 22/09/2020 - 16:24

  I've heard of the NBN Boxes having issues with uploads and dropping packets when over utilised, but this normally caused the connection to be lost, not it to be throttled back to a lower speed. The issues seemed to be happening when you upload at your full linespeed (20mbps) and then you have some data overheads for your downstream, resulting in you going over the max.

  https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2777488
  https://community.tpg.com.au/t5/Broadband-Internet/Throttlin…

  If you have access to another modem/router to plug into the NBN box that may be worth a shot as well, or if you have QOS settings change the maximum to be below your ~18mbps linespeed. There could be a similar line instability issues where its unable to maintain your NBN50 and therefore drops it to NBN25 (conjecture here, just thinking how I'd tweak settings for ADSL to manage with instability).

  Likely nothing to do with this, but maybe worth ruling it out.

  • 

    thwarted on 22/09/2020 - 23:51

    +1

    Unfortunately I don't have QOS settings on the Optus Router, so might get the NBN box changed over first, and if that doesn't work upgrade to 100Mbps for a month and see what happens. Stay tuned :-)

    • 

      pjetson on 23/09/2020 - 08:18

      I don't supposed that when you say you're turning off the NBN box, that you're also turning off your router too?

      • 

        thwarted on 23/09/2020 - 10:24

        Nope, just the NBN box. One good thing I found is that the SIM backup in the router kicks in pretty quick when the NBN box is turned off and delivers a 12Mbps download service which is a very reasonable backup.

  • 

    Imjustsayin on 23/09/2020 - 13:47

    Run some tests here: http://www.dslreports.com/speedtest
    Do it directly connected to the NBN box and see how things look. As was mentioned you may see some buffer bloat causing overhead and the dropping of apparent throughput. If your router has QOS you can try some tuning as others suggested.

• 

  l005e on 23/09/2020 - 16:00

  It feels like Optus are also throttling mobile broadband.

  I have noticed that every couple of days my speeds drop to 12/1 (or slower) then once I reset the router its back to 50/25.

  Curse you Optus!

  • 

    thwarted on 24/09/2020 - 14:40

    Sounds like a similar issue. It's not really throttling (as normally applied), its more a "stepped service downgrade" triggered by by some traffic profile or maybe some obscure fault, and getting stuck at the lower (but properly performing) service tier until a manual reset. I don't think it's too much to ask the ISP a) what's causing it & b) how do they intend to deal with it? So far no answers, but I'll stick at it and post the results when they become available.

• 

  thwarted on 29/11/2020 - 11:18

  +1

  Well, Im not sure I got to the bottom of the problem although it's now fixed. Optus checked my line and said they could see "bridge taps" which are branches off the main line (eg to extra phone sockets that are no longer used). They told me this could be causing the problem and I should have them removed. I did as they suggested a couple of months ago and have had no problems since then. I can understand the presence of bridge taps maybe causing signal reflections and degrading communications, but it doesn't really explain the issue of my service getting stuck on a lower tier which is surely an ISP setting. There's no way I can tell if they adjusted anything at their end, so problem fixed even if not fully explained.

  • 

    Twix on 29/11/2020 - 14:15

    Yeah bridge taps can cause speed problems.

    I don't think your service was stuck as your upload speed stayed the same at 18Mbps. If it was stuck the upload speed would drop to 5Mbps.