From other topic, it seems Australian loves to travel to JAPAN
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/561274
Why should we go / not go to Japan?
I know someone who forgot the phone in bus in Japan, contact the hotel for help to search it (as most people have limited English there) and the phone is back the next day.
Please share your experiences here.
that's hard to answer
I think it's only a very minor amount of older Japanese that are racist towards westerners at least.
There is probably a reasonable amount of racism towards China and/or Korea though, again mostly in older people.
Generally when you see signs that prohibit gaijins (foreigners) it's not (always) because of racism, it's often because they can't communicate with foreigners, and don't want to try. Many older and traditional Japanese restaurants only have kanji in their menus, and no pictures, so it would be very hard for a foreigner that doesn't understand Japanese to even order in a place like that.
Nah thats not what was implied. It was implicit to not have 'half-breeds', half-japanese, foreigners etc.
For that to be on a window is one thing, for a restaurant to have communication issues is another.
@w37hsyea: I don't know why you say "half breeds" because Japanese use the word "ハーフ" (half) which means half Japanese. If it was written "no half breeds" that's obviously a terrible translation.
I wasn't saying there is no racism, just that a large portion of the no gaijin restaurants will be for the reason I stated.
There is definitely some racist Japanese people in Japan, and some of them own restaurants.
The problem arises from the fact that they don't have an anti-discrimination act like we do in Australia, so they're allowed to discriminate against people based on race.
Regardless, in my more than 10 trips to Japan, I have only been refused entry to 1 restaurant because I was a foreigner, and it was my first trip when I was in Nagasaki. I also couldn't speak Japanese at that time.
More like they don't know much about non-japanese people. They haven't developed fixed view on foreigners much and it's up to the visitors to shape their view.
Many no foreigners allowed restaurant is the result of few badly mannered foreigners.
never nuke a country twice :/
Australia is way more racist than Japan.
you should probably expect that from most insular countries, where there is little migration.
It wasn't that long ago Australia was like that….
Big difference is you're not going to get attacked or verbally abused for it.
We've made giant steps, but you still hear of racisms/attacks all the time.
COVID-19 has proven that
Absolutely, I got told to fk off in Melbourne recently because I was wearing a cap I bought on holidays with the logo NZ on it, and a friend also had the same treatment because she looks asian but born and raised here 3rd generation…I've never had any bad treatment in Japan at all, but here its normal to be verbally abused if you are different, not if, but when.
Asian racism and Anglo racism are very different.
When I am being racially attacked by Anglo/white people, it's because they want to feel superiority and wrongfully assume I don't know English (jokes on them: I have a dual major in Literature and History, and qualified to teach both English and History)
Whereas with Asian racism, it's much less overt and more historical insults, akin to France and England bringing up 1066.
Japan, Korea, and China openly hate each other because there's been a stupidly long period of time where one of them though it was the greatest thing to invade another, mostly Japan towards China and Korea.
I think that's more to do with not wanting to have to deal with people that don't speak Japanese. Foreigners are more hassles for them.
Not that I agree with these policies.
What correlation does that have with being half japanese and denied entry?
Because all the bogans go to Bali.
I love Japans quirkyness,
And i find it a very affordable holiday destination and i tend to find my self arriving back with alot of goodies
Solely so they can spam OzBargain for itinerary advice.
Why Do Australians Love to Travel to Japan?
Only a small percentage do.
Disneyland/Sea?
Left my macbook pro in the overhead space in a city to city bullet train. Managed to get it back within 30 minutes. I speak 0 Japanese.
From other topic, it seems Australian loves to travel to JAPAN https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/561274
Correction … Ozbargainers love to travel to Japan not Australians as a whole.
I would say this has a lot to do with cost versus unique location.
Out of all the cheap places to get too, Japan would be one of the most unique / interesting.
https://www.traveller.com.au/most-popular-countries-for-aust…
Like many countries, Japan has a not so nice underbelly that the average tourist never sees.
Spoken by an expat that worked in Japan for 9 years
Can you elaborate?
Many restaurants will not let foreigners in - they stand at the doorway with the arms crossed, indicating no admission
Taxi cabs will often drive straight past a foreigner to pick up a Japanese a little further down the road
There are 2 prices at some of the "hostess" bars - one price for locals and another for foreigners.
The Japanese are in fact very, very racist.
Wow, didn't know this.
That sounds like a lot of places I've been to in Australia except replace "foreigner" with "indigenous person".
@ssquid: Where in Aus is there a restaurant prohibiting aboriginals? They would be cancelled immediately if they even implied it.
@900dollaridoos: There have been plenty of examples, even in the mainstream 'news' over recent years, where indigenous people have experienced racism, even when they are well known in the general public.
The Japanese are in fact very, very racist.
They have a word for non-japanese and it is used regularly so they do differentiate ethnic Japanese to foreigners.
Having said that, they are not malicious. Some of the old imperial/traditionalist still hold racial supremacy views but that's quickly disappearing.
The racial discrimination generally stems from their view (often true) that foreigners are incapable of observing their cultural protocols.
As a minority in Australia and everywhere I have ever lived, I can tell you that racial biasing is commonplace and bidirectional, but I've learnt that it isn't always antagonistic. In fact, it seldom is.
@[Deactivated]: you're naive, Japan and most East Asian culture are racist in nature, but the term racist is defined differently because they see themselves as their own race and don't want their blood to be mixed, don't want western ideology diluting their culture. They're the only one among developed countries that resist immigration as to solve their labour shortage issue and have herds of second class citizens from other asian countries working in their factories to give you nice japanese made cars and cameras. Similar story exists among other country like Hong Kong refusing to give residency to a maid. Western society on the other hand have to abide to their human right ideology and any broad interpretation of such and have to take compromise.
@lgacb08: You are conflating race with nationality.
Sure, in some countries, it is very difficult to obtain residency and citizenship hence the existing population tends to be from one race but that doesn't make a country racist. It makes it hard to become a resident.
They are not necessarily discriminating against you based on your race. They are just making it hard for anyone to seek residency.
Their immigration laws actually makes more sense than ours. Theirs is based on reason - shortage of labour, they import labour. They do not import citizens to solve a labour shortage. These labourers enter voluntarily. They enter to work and reap the rewards of their labour and they are expected to leave once work is done.
You know where else this arrangement takes place? Everywhere. Try moving your bed into your place of employment.
you're naive
That's just rude and childish.
@[Deactivated]: The word for non-Japanese is Gaijin, which means "alien" and is viewed in Japan as a derogatory description of foreigners.
I suggest you do some reading on the Japanese treatment of Koreans during the decades after they annexed Korea in 1910. For example, stripping Japanese citizenship from the the children born in Japan of Korean mothers. etc etc
@Ocker: If that's the case, I wouldn't have visited many countries on the basis of historical discrimination.
Heck, there are still many countries that actively practice racism completely in the open - India, Malaysia, Indonesia and most of the middle east. They have preferential treatment for race/class written into law. Present day law.
I still go to these places. I just don't rate them highly.
I’ve observed this kind of racism as well. I’ve often wondered if it is the price of monoculture. On the one hand, In Japan you get everyone pulling together - sunnies left on a train get returned, everyone looks after common areas etc. But the flip side is that foreigners really don’t fit into society. So tourists can be treated well as visitors, but if you want to live in Japan, well then you see the racism. Conversely Australia is multicultural and less racist (still lots of racism, but it illegal for apartment buildings to rent to white Australian only for example). The flip side is that community is more fractured - people don’t share the same values, and even have conflicting values (say wrt how women should be treated for example, or the place of religion in society). I mean, in a world like that, things are going to slip, but it also massively freeing.
For all that I love Japan, and I really do, when I ask Japanese people why they chose to live in Australia, they usually answer “for the lifestyle” and I get it.
The Japanese are in fact very, very racist
That's what they say about us, aussies, in most Asian countries. We also, apparently, have an awful reputation as being 'sex tourists'.
@[Deactivated]: I don't think you will get any objections about Australian racism, but the conversation is about Japan.
@GG57: The problem when discussing racism is that some people (actually the majority based on my observation) have a very "liberal" definition of racism. Practically anything can be construed as racism.
I go by the proper definition. Either the point of differentiation is to imply superiority/inferiority, or it is to create advantage/disadvantage.
Regarding Japan, I don't feel that the majority harbour anymore racism than the average Australian. They have outliers, so do we. The average Japanese has some prejudice, so do we.
@[Deactivated]: I think that is the point that @Ocker is making, the very fact that it is extremely difficult to obtain citizenship is used as a deterrent, and is a systematic way of maintaining monoculture. Part of the intent of maintaining monoculture is to minimise a fractured society. And why else might they have that perspective about multiculturalism other than the belief that potential citizens cannot fully integrate/understand/uphold the same values or that an influx of migrants ultimately dilutes/devalues what they already have.
I would often observe that in Asian societies, they do not bother having a society-wide conversation about racism, and it is definitely not because they are magically less racist, but more because it is considered a fringe issue. As a people, the Japanese are highly respectful, but kindness and courtesy does not always mean they are less racist; I daresay most tourists visiting Australia would be quite baffled about our internal discussions about racism, but that's because being a tourist is only a limited way to experience a country, and so can be difficult to judge these things.
@onesandtwos: It is not difficult to gain citizenship at all, just a lot of paperwork. Its about the same requirements as Australia.
Perhaps comparatively an even easier path now that you can gain permanent residency within 1 year of getting the new(ish) highly skilled visa.
There is conversation about racism and dealing of foreigners. Japan just hosted Rugby World Cup and was/is set to host Olympics. More foreigners are coming to work, live and travel here than ever before.
I don't think you will get any objections about Australian racism,
I was reading an old ozbargain thread on the BLM protests just this morning (thanks to @kahn) and I respectfully beg to differ. Quite a few commentators displayed a shocking lack of self-awareness.
Is it true that a long-time member was so disgusted by what he/she read that they disabled their account?
Is it true that a long-time member was so disgusted by what he/she read that they disabled their account?
It appears that I was wrongly informed. It looks more likely that his adopted child was finally allowed in the country and he disabled his account to spend time with her.
@[Deactivated]: well that is actually for the most part pretty accurate, Japan is pretty racist, but compared to Australia it is mildly so.
people are all racist in someway
@Orico: It is legal. A business, government body, corporation cannot make racial distinction. An individual can and will.
@[Deactivated]: Yes, that is legal but not at the expense of others missing out on the basis of their race.
@Orico: It still is legal.
Hypothetically, if I, an individual, chooses to shop at an ethnic grocer vs a local grocer based on race, someone misses out on my business. It is perfectly legal.
@[Deactivated]: Oh, fair enough. I was more referring to employment law. Not promoting someone on the basis of race, not offering them a permanent contract or only giving opportunities and more favorable treatment to people of your own race.
I agree, I don't really see the situation you describe as being antagonistic towards other races. We all have our preference.
You're speaking out of your ass. I lived there, in major cities, and never experienced this kind of stuff. Where did you get this from? YouTube?
@antigrate: Are you talking about racism in Japan?
I lived there. In 3 major cities and one minor one (in Aichi). Experienced/witnessed it in all of them.
I'm of Asian descent, and I still experienced it.
You're either extremely fortunate, didn't try to get around much, or are turning a blind eye.
You are clearly pursuing to misrepresent or exaggerate the facts to suit your narrative.
"many restaurants will not let foreigners in"
Many?? That is absurd. Reputable businesses are not denying entry. You find that kind of thing in the red light district (which generally has it's own set of rules) with adult entertainment businesses, or snack bars/micro bars/izakayas run privately for club members or have had terrible experiences with expats. It is rather minuscule. Renting an apartment/house however is another story which is a warranted complaint as a foreigner, although is quite the same treatment as anywhere else including Australia when we are talking about expensive assets/property.
"Japanese are in fact very, very racist"
Saying that is in fact just as silly of a generalisation as someone saying XYZ are very, very racist. It is just like any other country - but definitely better than other places I have lived. I have never personally come across racism in my years here, in 2 major cities. The local community has continued to donate food, essentials and free accommodation to foreigners who have lost their job since the start of this pandemic to help them survive until they can return to their home countries or get back on their feet. Is being charitable to foreigners um, racist?
As for your other post, Alien is a legal term derived from Latin, not a socially dividing insult. It means non-citizen. It's used by many countries around the world. I thought this was common knowledge?
These are very wishy washy points to make about a not so nice underbelly.
Sounds pretty tame to me combated to 90% of countries.
Ive been to Tokyo twice now and never experienced what you spoke of, however we probably were in different areas at different times etc
In regards to being racist, i think that can apply to pretty much every country on this planet, everyone can pretend, but lets be honest, its there.
Gaijin
learnt that off 2fast2furious
You can just go to r/japanlife to read about the dodgy landlords, employers, stalkers etc.
very true. it's a different subtype of anti-foreign sentiment, often tourists fail to see how you can be anti-foreigner yet hospitable at the same time. at its core japanese culture is very insular. they will be the utmost gentleman and yet always see you as a foreigner. You may find them welcoming and have impeccable manners and pull out at all stops but you'll never be accepted in the japanese society as 'one of them'. its a peculiar dichotomy of japanese culture and society.
Same as Korea.
Even I, as a full Korean, am treated like an in between.
It's hard to explain but, I would imagine Japan has the same issues as Korea.
This. Many people probably don't believe in Japanese being racist because they do not see the outward aggression.
Lawson Fried Chicken and other convenience store goodness.
The real answer right here!
Should go to London then, can get a chicken burger, Dr Pepper and chips for 4AUD from a fake kfc (sfc or random letters)
When I was young me and my mates would go to our local SFC (suspicious fried chicken) just before closing. They would sell us all their remaining chicken for about 10 quid.
I think family mart takes the title for fried chicken.
Damn reading this thread makes we want to go to Japan…..pity I might never get the chance.
7-11, Lawson, FamilyMart, MiniMart.
Those who know, know.
There use to be a good one called Circle K.
Sunkus?
weebs
This, OzB full of em
As a New Zealander, not Australian but yano
Japan has such a unique and interesting culture. The people are ridiculously nice, there’s so much to see and do. The landscape is beautiful. The cuisine is amazing.
Going through school, I always loved Japan and had quite a few interests that directly tie in to Japan such as car modifications and car scene.
Visiting Japan, for me, was a mesmerising and welcoming experience and it makes me want to go back because it was so enjoyable
Although Japanese mostly do not speak English, there are many information available in English so it makes it easy to travel. I love the UNESCO heritage sites mainly from its rich history.. otherwise, transport is excellent in Japan easy to use and go around even though i know zero japanese. food is tasty and simple, convenience stores are a good place to get quick fixes. it's a country thats so big and just so many places to explore!
Japan is an expensive place to stay if you have kids
I have never been to Japan but im guessing becuz it is a nice culture change, safe, great for skiing and most importantly not a holiday that would break the bank
Clean.
Pleasant and respectful locals.
No tourist traps/rip offs/scams.
The place just works.
Very little crime, especially petty, tourist targeted stuff.
Unlikely to get "Bali Belly".
No tourist traps/rip offs/scams.
Incorrect, where there's tourists there's always people to take advantage.
https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2019/10/04/national/media-…
https://www.reddit.com/r/Tokyo/comments/59b3kh/got_scammed_o…
NoVery limited tourist traps/rip offs/scams … especially compared to most other overseas destinations Australians typically visit.
Apart from the overpriced bars/clubs in Roppongi which target everyone (you'll see a lot of English speaking African touts approaching westerners though), tourist targeting scams are almost non existent when compared to other Asian countries. No shops selling fake goods, no rip-offs from taxi drivers (taxis are expensive though).
The only real scams I have encountered on the street are not from Japanese but from other Asians: fake Chinese monks asking for donations to fund there 'damaged' temple back home and Filipinos with lanyards asking for donations for a worthy cause. They're all dodgy. Google it.
Mate, their tourist traps pale in comparison to ours.
I did a whole bunch of drinks and finger food at a major local event. It cost roughly 50% more for the equivalent quality at the shops.
In Australia, the quality of food at attractions or events (food events excluded), the price of food is double even if comparing it to something of better quality.
Anecdote - Penguin parade in Philip Island (for many, I needn't say more). I cannot recall the cost of the trip but bloody hell, it was eye watering. Years later, and also having moved coastal, we get penguins. Cost - stolen bait.
We Aussie like Japan because we're all lazy and don't want to take risk, Japan is the safest alternative that you can turn to, unless you want to see that same boring fish and chips shop on another country.
Safer/lazier alternatives to Japan: New Zealand, England, Scotland, USA, Canada, etc.
When I go on holidays I want to see interesting things and have fun. I've had 'risk' holidays too. Yeah, gimme that 7 days of gastro and a trip to hospital once back in AU after eating the wrong thing. That was a blast. Can't wait to do that again.
It was one of the first countries I visited - safe and different.
Ended up losing my phone inside a cab at Hiroshima then ran around trying to find the cab. We went to the tourist information desk (near the atomic bomb dome) and they called every police box in the area and tracked my phone down. Even wrote down a note translating my situation so that I could show it to the cops
Japan is just the Phuket or Bali for non-bogans
I have been to Japan three times over 15 years. Sometimes revisiting favourite regions, other times seeing something new.
Japan is easy to get around. Love the public transport. If you want a car near Mt Fuji it's quick, easy, and relatively cheap. Lots to see and do, the place is well catered for in terms of English and Chinese tourists, and I have never had a service issue or problem when travelling. I have yet to meet a scammer or thief, unlike a few other countries in the world. Even the drunks I met on the train were super happy.
Some of the previous posts mention negative sides of Japanese society, and like all places it certainly has those too. It's a place I love to visit but wouldn't want to live. Sitting in an office until 8pm waiting for the boss to go home doesn't sound like my idea of fun. But we're talking about visiting and having a holiday, not going to live and work there for a year.
It's just 8 hours away in pre COVID times and return airfares on premium airlines could be readily scored for $800. Nice.
negative sides of Japanese society, and like all places it certainly has those too. It's a place I love to visit but wouldn't want to live. Sitting in an office until 8pm waiting for the boss to go home doesn't sound like my idea of fun. But we're talking about visiting and having a holiday, not going to live and work there for a year.
Yeah, eye-opener.
Been to Tokyo, Osaka, Kyoto all at once and I have to say the whole experience is just unbelievable. The people are so polite and they are holding the doors for you the min they see you have young children with pram.
When we arrived at the hotel with the taxi the fees was around 7200 JPY but the taxi driver told us there is a flat fee service meaning we shouldn't have to pay for the 7200 at all, we should be paying 6500 instead. Where on earth can you find a place like that? Then when we paid a little extra (7000 because I wanted to give him a tip) the taxi driver rushed to us to let us know we paid too much………lol
When we don't know which bus to the Disney sea the bus driver got off the bus and told us where to go. Seriously!!!!!
Direction by strangers; helped by the old lady who is around 80 walked us to the bus station is just a daily recurring.
And let me stop at the food because thinking about it is already making my stomach hungry……….the food at their 7-11 store is BETTER than of the restaurants here. My kid cried when we told her its time to leave………………….
This has been our experience as well. People watch you and offer help before you have to ask for it.
The first time we went my wife was heavily pregnant. At a train station a very elegantly dressed older business man told me how beautiful she was. To see him searching for the words in a foreign language to express something complex, but which reaches across cultures, showed the warmth the Japanese people have.
I have lots of Japanese friends - and I know enough about its culture to not choose to make a life there. However, it is my favourite country to visit.
Seeing the pole has made me go off the idea of going again if so many Aussies want to go.
North or South 'Pole'?
Culture shock. Something different, innit?
Thanks for reminding me OP, we're yet to watch James May, Our Man in Japan.
good watch, really enjoyed it!
Abroad in Japan on YouTube is probably the best thing to watch on Japan.
Clean hotels, better status recognition.
Downside is inefficiency except for public transport. So many processes and many are paper based.
Notwithstanding everything that everyone has said here, it is also really, really easy to research and plan out your trip to Japan.
It is an extremely well travelled country so there are countless websites and youtube channels dedicated to the English speaking Japanese traveller.
Even with the huge boom in tourism over the past 10 years or so, Japan is still a very accessible country and there is something wonderful about such a clean, polite, highly organised and convenient society with fantastic travel experiences on offer.
You can also get by with public transport by using Google maps, so if you want to travel Japan with a very limited understanding of Japanese, it's doable.
I was pretty average about going there, but wife always keen. We did a cruise last year that stopped over south in Okinawa. Most amazing tropical diving spot! I was so impressed with the quality of their nearshore fish diversity, coral. People are friendly and really laid back. One international place I would be keen to go back and spent some time. Has also got me interested in the rest of the country.
'I know someone who forgot the phone in bus in Japan, contact the hotel for help to search it (as most people have limited English there) and the phone is back the next day'
happened to me - left a Google Nexus somewhere - rang the hotel - they charged me $10 for the shipping delivery guy who brought it hundreds of miles to our next hotel - where we arrived and picked it up at the next desk - sweet
and this story - I left my daypack on the overhead rack on a Yamanote line train - the green line loop around central Tokyo - it had my partner's $400 Bose QC35 headphones - OMG !
we ran downstairs to the info desk where the engrish translation … woman gets on phone … 10 minutes of back and forth - she says 'probably this train number' - trains loop in like 40-45 minutes - so we go back upstairs to the same platform and wait - and as the 40 minutes approaches we start scanning - two of us so around the same platform/carriage location - as one train arrives, we run in (after passengers alight) - quickly scan the overhead luggage racks - jump off - and wait for the next …
getting panicky - scanned about 10 trains - eventually the train number she said - not sure if that or the next - anyway we were getting hot and sweaty and had just about given up hope - ran onto one more - I saw my backpack on the rack overhead a young teenage Japanese girl - stood in front of her with a loud 'YES !!!' - she looked up 'huh' - I grabbed it and ran off joyously - 'who was that strange gaijin … ?'
Japan is where people would reputedly leave their wallet on a restaurant table to mind the place while they went to the bathroom - no-one would touch it
Yep I dropped money on the floor by accident went back and it was still there! It's ingrained in the culture to not touch what isn't yours. That's why theft isn't really a thing and missing items being returned.
I remember me and 2 friends were at a street cocktail festival in Hiroshima and a Japanese couple came up to us and started talking to us. We hit it off and asked if they knew a sushi place and they said we’ll all go! So it turned into a group of 10 having a late lunch followed by karaoke and more drinking late into the night. The thing was they paid for everything which was crazy to us and we insisted we pay as well but they did not have a bar of it. The generosity was incredible to me considering we were just strangers they met on the street.
Japan is a great place for many reasons like food, scenery, people can be very polite and nice. Its clean and very efficient. Only thing i dont like about Japan is the culture / people are also very racist but they are still polite and respectful to your face.
I have read that a lot of Japanese are very racist, despite being overtly courteous and polite?