Not too much detail out their yet- are there any builders out there with ideas as to what renos might qualify for government cash?
Renovation Cash Proposal from Government
kobrien456 on 02/06/2020 - 15:48
Comments
- 1
- 2
all materials jump up in cost
Just the labour component mate. If cost of HiLux and Ranger goes up by the same magnitude then the grant will need to go up again!
This is going to be managed so badly.
I guess there are quite a few pollies in the LNP that are wanting some renos or new houses.
My thoughts exactly. The LNP have spent the best part of a decade pilloring Labor on their fiscal policy (stimulas) now they are proposing something that is much more easily rotted!
The problem with the LNP and (Conservatives in general) is that they cannot keep a consistent narrative. They flit between blantant self interest and appeasing their corporate masters.
I think that's a stretch. But you just described all the major political parties. It's a gloried peeing contest these days. You will need to substitute the interest and master as that changes quite regularly these days, and add a hefty dose of sensationalism and diversion, but its all on repeat cycle after cycle. The left are no exception, in some ways much better at it than conservatives as there are many of us who want to support progressive ideals at all costs and turn a blind eye. I'm no exception. We should worry less about progressive and conservative and more about the fundamentals, the principles.
I've just spent a back-breaking 10 days helping a mate renovate his property( technically my property) while still working full-time and homeschooling 2 out of my 4 kids. To think we could have paid someone to do it and I could have spent even more time on ozb :/
And you could also then afford to home school the other 2 kids who are missing out. :)
Or you know, sleep :)
I've just spent a back-breaking 10 days
If you can spend $150k in 10 days have I got a bridge or two to sell you.
We've renovated the bathroom, polished the hardwood floors and refreshed the kitchen. If we had known of this proposal, we could potentially have added another floor and turned it into a 4 bed , 2 living, 2+ baths. Not that he need that much space.But you know, potentially, we could have done it.
If we had known of this proposal, we could potentially have added another floor and turned it into a 4 bed
Not too late mate.
@netjock: We could but we won't. I bought the place because the bank decided at the last minute that he was a risk they weren't willing to take. They were more than happy to give me the money though, so I bought it and he is renting it from me. The more money I invest in this property , the less likely he will ever be able to buy it from me, which is what we both want. He just needs to find a lender who will take him on .
@[Deactivated]: Didn't realise you were in that kind of a situation.
Best you keep your mate within affordability.
@GG57: No regrets then. Unless he can buy the property from me first and then go up before the end of the year.
Another LNP thought bubble:
"Renovators will not just be required to match the cash grants but spend more, ensuring the projects are “substantial”.
Need to spend $75K->$100K to qualify for the $25K grant, would be my guess.
Putting it out of reach for many. And also meaning the average joe might many will be overcapitalised, especially if the price of real estate drops.
The LNP will only ever reward the rich. It's against their DNA to help the poor or raise their living standards. The poor are their political punching bag they trot out to blame for political gain/purposes.
By this definition it sounds like you're saying tradies are rich (i wouldn't argue, but they might)? Because they are the main beneficiary here.
As someone who could use this policy to renovate their house, this is absurd.
Billions of dollars are being borrowed from future generations.
Not to keep those prevented from working off the street (ScoMo wants to end this program soon).
Not to invest in things with a positive ROI like infrastructure, education, R&D, etc.
Not to subsidise the development of export oriented industries.
But to subsidise an industry that already has generous tax breaks, lax building standards and enormous profits (over the last two decades) to help the already wealthy renovate their houses.
help the already wealthy renovate their houses
Don't you worry about like. Like everything it will be means tested.
It will be those who are already for years getting cash in hand then splashing it out on a HiLux, Ranger or Landcruiser that will be getting the subsidy.
LNP politicians own a greater amount of investment properties than politicians of the other parties
This grant is to prop up their portfolio valueBy rewarding all builders?
Why not just reduce property holding costs, reduce stamp duty, increase first home owner grants…?
increase first home owner grants…?
Ooh, don't suggest that.
The first time they handed out $15k house prices went up $30k.
Oh, ok, let's hand out $30k then…
Wheee! Look at it go!
If the figures are correct and need to spend $100k to get a $25k grant. Then the cost to the Government will be fairly small and would very likely result in significant gains for the government/economy. $10k in GST and then say $10k in tax revenue from profit.
Correct (and we are all assuming that these 'news' sites have the correct information).
On top of that, the grant will likely be only able to be applied for after the expenses have been incurred, and take a period of time for an assessment if it meets the criteria, before any payment is received.
Same news, just with a few 'clarifications' via Morrison's favourite broadcaster.
I'm really dubious about the "bushfire victims" category. Will that mean that the money that the Feds were supposed to provide to bushfire victims now gets rolled over into this "new" scheme, so not new money at all.
Smoke and mirrors again.
Confirmed: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-03/government-coronaviru…
Key points:
- $25,000 grant
- means tested to less than $125k/year for individuals and $200k/year for couples (based on a 2018/19 tax return or later)
- recipients required to spend at least $150,000 of their own money but less than $750,000
- new builds —> build must be less than $750,000
- renos —> property needs to be valued less than $1.5 million before the renovation
- excludes investment properties
- excludes structures separate to the main property, such as swimming pools, tennis courts and sheds
- doesn't apply to owner-builders
- must use a licensed builder (licensed before today)
- building contracts need to be executed between 04/06/2020-31/12/2020Once you add all this together there won't be too many people who would qualify. Another beautiful headline with devil in the fine print.
So effectively a 16.6% discount on a 150k spend which could so easily be absorbed by tradies inflating prices.
Exactly. It's a handout for Tradies. Nothing more.
We need a new bathroom, a new laundry, solar, possibly convert lighting to led, possibly replace aged windows, replace a damaged Caesarstone bench… can I stretch this to $150K?
Sure.
Erases previous quote and writes $150k.
You are welcome.
Yup, another scheme for tradies to inflate prices. Thanks. Not like tradies in Australia are already overpaid. Look at every other country where tradies are just a qualified - if not more, with much stronger work ethic and get paid peanuts in comparison. Australia is a country where one doesn't need to be academically inclined and still be a millionaire. I can name at least half a dozen tradies I know who own drive around in $360K Italian "company cars" and own multiple properties.
I don't disagree with your comments and observations, but this isn't the tradies fault.
Plenty in social media just now are suggesting that this is a Scott Cam idea.this is a Scott Cam idea.
LOL!
Hey, at least these non "academically inclined" people are contributing to the economy, unlike the many people I've met who just perpetually study useless degrees at universitys at the tax payers expense.
Also, it is a free market out there, so unless you think all tradies get together and have weekly price fixing meetings, in general the rate they charge is what the market can stand.
I've met who just perpetually study useless degrees at universitys at the tax payers expense.
What have you got against people who keep academics employed?
You can wipe with wet wipes instead of toilet paper and literally adopt a plumber. People vote in different ways.
unless you think all tradies get together and have weekly price fixing meetings
We've proven that petrol outlets don't price fix but it is possible to indicate prices to the competition. If you my fellow tradie can afford a new Ranger / HiLux / Landcruiser then I should be able to increase my prices to close the gap.
I don't see a lot of tradies driving around in beaten up station wagons with roof racks. They used to in the 90s.
Does this apply to new build apartments or townhouses off the plan etc?
This policy is absolutely moronic. It's free money for builders to upgrade private residences.
A nicer kitchen doesn't provide anything useful, and the money only ends up in the same few pockets that have been propped up by housing and construction booms over the last couple of decades.Propping up the housing bubble has pulled money away from other sectors of the economy, and this only concentrates that further.
This wouldn't even do much to pump money into the economy because homeowners and builders either have plenty of money already, or are mortgaged to their eyeballs and paying everything to the bank.It would be much better if they spent some money trying to support/develop any other industry (except mining and banks) so that we had some kind of economic diversity.
Or, since they are lazy and incapable of growing a sector that isn't already raking in cash, it would also also be much better if they simply handed out cash (eg $900) to everyone, regardless of industry and existing economic status.This policy is absolutely moronic
At some point the morons are going to run out of money.
The government can keep on printing money for their stupid schemes but they can't tax enough of the poor without a revolt.
Save money, put in the right places, balance your cash flow. Good things come to those who wait. I'd suggest people read up on the Spanish Flu and how hard it is to make a vaccine for COVID19. Even if they do find a vaccine in the next 6 months it will take 12 months to get everyone vaccinated.
I have a contract right here in front of me for $200k that I was about to sign for remedial works due to shoddy builders when the house was built. Given I have never recieved a Family tax benefit, got nothing from the 2009 stimulus, have got nothing from the covid stimulus measures, I am finally very happy to be getting something back. first time I have ever got anything from the government. Timing for me is perfect as my builder just completed the quote for me a couple weeks ago, which I accepted and he gave me a contract in the last few days which I have been reading and checking. So from my perspective no price jacking as the quote is already done, the quote was on the mark and approximately in line with others. sign away
You must be one of the lucky ones.
This is an interesting analysis of who can participate:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-04/homebuilder-grants-sc…So the stars must line up for someone other than the builder to benefit.
Perhaps a second "profession" to benefit would be astrologers.
I hope this policy won't go through, whoever came up with it is just…retarded. It has so many potential exploits…
The only people who will benefit are 1) builders, 2) people with spare $150k sitting in their bank. Neither of these groups of people 'need' help.
The people that really need help are those that will have trouble paying their mortgage/rent once all the job seeker/keeper benefits end in September.
If government really has that much money to throw away, they should at least lower the cost of public transports to start with…you know…the one of those things that will actually encourage people to go out and work.
It is an economic stimulant.
I agree that it is a terrible plan but decreasing the cost of public transport doesn't make anyone not able or unwilling to get a job to get a job.
Rather than "…so many potential exploits…", the analysis here would suggest that the benefits will be very difficult to attain:
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-06-04/homebuilder-grants-sc…Thus the intended economic stimulus may be limited (oh, apart from perhaps some public servants having to handle the applications etc.).
Agreed. I think a lot of the people who fit the spending requirements will also be the people who don't meet the eligibility requirements (income too high). Making the scheme less effective in stimulating the economy.
best economic managers
Yeah, pretty disappointing I think.
Not my words but apt… “but tax minimising wealthy folk will be able to upgrade from korean built to german built appliances in this years new kitchen and those lovely $2500 italian taps. wanna bet house "value" will be the unimproved land value. like they do for rates to minimise the amount wealthy peolple have to pay towards all those services councils preferentially provide to them.
for example my local council has no money for roadworks or roadside verge slashing but has managed to find about $8million to protect half a dozen very expensive homes from coastal erosion at winda whoppa. meanwhile we cant even get a footpath or road that meets the minimum requirements for a two lane public carriage way, just love being run off the road by logging and cattle trucks every second trip into town. “
…but tax minimising wealthy folk will be able to upgrade…
If they made the program open for all, some will whinge about it being for the rich.
They placed an income cap and those same people whinge that it is for the rich that tax minimise.
If they gave no details at all, the same people would whinge about "grant is to prop up their portfolio value".
Mental acrobatics of the envious.
It's the combination of the income cap with a very high minimum spend. How many people actually earning under $150,000 before tax are going to have a spare $150,000 lying around and be willing to spend it all in one go on renovations?
Why not have it tiered? If you really wanted to stimulate you could have e.g. $5k for spends between $30k-$70k, $10k for $70k-$100k, $15k for $100k-$150k, and $25 for $150,000.
You can still combine that with income caps, but at least it opens up to people other than the wealthy (with low taxable income).Answer: Because they just want make an announcement that's looks like they're doing something, but it's not going to cost anything or do anything because few are actually eligible.
$25000 - great I'll be able to get four extra power points and the washers changed on my taps.
You know a cheap sparky do you … Pls share ..
So the fact that it's geared towards a household wage of less than $200k has ruled out nearly all OzB. (We all know that everyone here earns more than that!)
Nothing to see here folks… I'd be curious to see how many are actually able to take this up.
who the heck would spend 150k on renovations ????? unless if you're doing a ccomplete renovation or just lie
My wife and I are about to sign a new build contract. Have already confirmed we are eligible for the cash grant.
We'll spend it on blinds, landscaping and retaining and a few pieces of furniture we need to buy.
If there's any left we'll use it to pay down the mortgage.
Wonder if there’ll be the typical ‘welfare’ crying here on OzBargain similar to the JobKeeper/Seeker payments.
Didn't someone describe this 'initiative' as VoteKeeper?
Every initiative is votekeeper.
That is obviously the intention; interesting that this one is getting widespread negative press in the media.
Maybe the LNP machine should just post their thought-bombs here and we can tell them what we think; cut out those 'consultants'.
I was told Bunnings will be the largest beneficiary….
I need a new kitchen and bathrooms, I'd imagine to do something elaborate would cost around $60k
We earn less than $200k, so qualify, but I can't imagine spending $150k on my house which is worth about $600k.
And therein lies the issue. No-one in their right mind who earns under the income threshold (unless their pre-tax income is much more, or were already saving for and planning a major renovations) is going to have or be willing to spend $150k on renovations. Especially in this climate.
We're also looking at doing what i would consider fairly large renos (new deck and bathroom) and would qualify income wise, but I couldn't see us spending more than $50,000 right now. $150,000 is crazy for the average house someone in that income threshold can afford.
Yeah and the grant is gonna go towards inflated prices. It's so underwhelming
The plan would have got me to crack on with my planned renovations this year if I was eligible. Since I'm not they can wait a couple more years to cut down on likely rise in prices to get the same work done that will occur when there's free money around, and to save up to loan as little as possible.
Be interesting to see how much this gets taken up. Is there a big market right now of people on average incomes wanting to do $200,000 renovations of owner-occupier homes? Poor can't use this. The rich can't use this. Investors can't use this.
save a builders job, but who is going to save you if u lose ur job and your house? 150k in your pocket is better then wasting it on some crap govt policy
How long until the government realizes that subsidies don't work? Childcare being one example, it doesn't take a genius that this money will just be pocketed by builders/tradies.
Is this media spun or real?
Insane idea.But hay I like the governments prediction back in 2011 that Australia will reach 26 million in 2030, and it's at 25 million in 2020, yeah let every rich person and people who own renovate it fits perfectly with the governments thinking.
Very soon Australia will have so many people, houses will be a dream, even cars too because how will people live when there's more people now then there is to feel the entire population.
I wouldn't say we are doomed but I can say Medicare and welfare will be much tighter in the future?
Why is that, well Australia is a country equivalent to America in size (that is if you subtract Alaska and Hawaii) and with America being 320 million, and the Philippines being roughly smaller then new Zealand (5 million) with a whopping 100 million, neither the USA nor the Philippines can adequately sustain a health care system, let alone welfare.
As the saying goes, give a homeless person a roof and a job (with compassion and mental health) and they will work hard, happy and create a healthy family.
Don't? then best to promote these ideas.
It's amazing the number of people wealthy enough to spend tens of thousands renovating their property that are now complaining that they missed out on a free $25k donation from the government…. Not so that they can survive… But so they can make their property more luxurious.
There are people around the world queuing for hours for a bowl of rice each day, people are starving due to this pandemic, yet the rich and entitled in this country still complain that they've missed out on some free cash.
Greed, greed, greed
Or maybe they want to fix up a bit of a crap hole that has issues, but are an average middle income family without tens of thousands laying around? I know our place has several problems we're struggling to identify let alone afford to address. Calling such people greedy is just ridiculous as if you've never complained about the the cost of something or how it gets inflated. It's one thing to simplify its another to virtue signal.
Terrible idea to give wealthy people a subsided Reno… should be poured into public housing stock.
- 1
- 2
@immortalbjr: Yes those things could happen but only if the quote is relatively old which is unlikely to be the case. I consult and our quotes go out with a time limit (30-60 days). I'd run a mile from a contractor who tried to jack up the price without legitimate and documented reasons when I called to accept his written quote. And don't forget that the reason this grant exists is because "the next job" isn't there apparently.