Teller Job Unable to Leave on Time What Are My Options?

flatwhitepls on 07/05/2020 - 19:54
Last edited 07/05/2020 - 19:58

My partner works in a bank branch in Victoria as a teller aka Customer Representative part time 6 hours a day. Her contractual working hours is 9:30 to 4pm. The branch close at 4pm. Everyday she finishes at 4:10-4:45 and unable to leave because:

  • The last customer may come and at 4pm and the manager is busy.
  • An employee inside the bank branch had to let her out for security reasons. Because they are busy she can't leave.
  • she needs to do additional work before she can leave. E.g. atm refill. Because she is busy whole day serving customers. She needs to do these additional work before she can leave.

She already discussed with her manager 3 times that she needs to leave on time because of her commitments. But no support been given.

Additional info:

  • There are other staffs who are full-time they finish at 5pm
  • Always on time around 9:15-9:25 to start
Education & Work

Comments

    • RoweDizzle on 08/05/2020 - 07:26
      +13

      Would you be happy to constantly pay for an employee's childcare late pickup fees because they weren't clock watching, and doing more than what they're being paid to do?

      Even in salary based jobs, constantly doing overtime isn't overtime anymore. It's just ripping off your employees. You said your staff are compensated with extra breaks/extended lunches, which is great, but some jobs/stores don't have that flexibility.

      • Porker on 08/05/2020 - 07:34
        -7

        Are the OPs partners commitments child care pick up? How did you find this info?

        You sure it's not wanting to be home to watch a tv program on time?

        Hence my comment that we don't know what the commitments are to be implying that the mamager/work is at fault. We don't know how efficient or inefficient the employer is.

        Would you be happy to pay an employee their full wage when they only do half the work in their allocated time?

        When I leave work to pick up my son from child care, I make sure that I get my work done for the day such that I can leave on time.

        Only in later posts and edits has the OP said that his partner is on part time specifically to allow her to leave early.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/05/2020 - 20:03

        Your children are not someone else's problem.

    • ThithLord on 08/05/2020 - 08:25
      +2

      Annoys me when staff just clock watch and will literally leave or shut down 5 mins before they have to go. Again, there's no requirement for them to stay but unfortunately others will pick up the slack when (in most cases) its obvious that we're all struggling or behind.

      lol you're alright with your staff staying back unpaid often, I'm sure you're just as cool with them leaving early all the time as well, yeah? Or is it just your dime they can work on, not the other way around?

      • Porker on 08/05/2020 - 08:36
        +1

        Give and take situation.

        As per my earlier post, it's when the pressure is on that people notice absences.

        Perfectly fine with them leaving early when the pressure is off. When it's clear the day is dead, I let them go signifcantly earlier.

        Similarly, i don't mind if they're on Facebook or YouTube etc on my 'dime' through the day provided they get their work done.

        Perhaps read my earlier comments about this issue before making ill-informed replies.

        • ThithLord on 08/05/2020 - 09:13

          Just have her ask to go back to full time. It's not the time to be asking for less shifts when there is such adjustment to what 'normal' life is.

          Maybe the manager is unable to get another to compensate foe your partners decision to work less.
          Are the commitments critical or just personal preference?
          Maybe this kind of job isn't for her due to inability for flexibilty or efficiency issues or other.

          Many influences here that you're not presenting and pointing blame at the manager.

          Annoys me when staff just clock watch and will literally leave or shut down 5 mins before they have to go. Again, there's no requirement for them to stay but unfortunately others will pick up the slack when (in most cases) its obvious that we're all struggling or behind.

          I've read plenty of your comments, Porker. You are very anti-employee, if I had to hazard a guess I'd imagine you detest Unions as well, huh?

          All your comments are basically suggesting that OP's wife suck it up. You don't care at all that she's apparently working +45mins overtime every day? But you're concerned about the widdle bank not having enough $$ to cover her leaving on time. I mean, the sheer audacity of her wanting to leave on time!!

          • Porker on 08/05/2020 - 09:42
            +6

            @ThithLord: Wow - You have no idea what I do or how I treat my team and company, but you default to negativity.

            There's no point in me trying to defend anything to you, I don't know you or how you work - the test will be feedback from my team/employees.

            Where other similar industries have died due to Covid, I keep mine up operating at loss such that I can keep my staff employed. They've helped me for such a long time that I owe them this during this tough time. I've given all an extra 10 days leave (covid-related) for them to use to take care of any aspect of this pandemic to deal with their own personal or family requirements. My staff get yearly bonuses on top of their monthly bonus payments - the business success is shared amongst all.

            I'm not saying that OP's partner suck it up, I'm stating that we don't know what her or the manager's ethic and/or work culture is like or history. The history will highlight the circumstances leading to how she's feeling and indeed what she might not have seen occur in terms of support or reality of the situation.

            However, it seems you know exactly how I operate based on a few comments and what is clearly your negative experience with your own working history. Sorry that you haven't had happy experiences.

            Oh.. and I pay for my staffs' Union fees. I allow them to include it as a work expense for reimbursement.

            • ThithLord on 08/05/2020 - 09:49
              +2

              @Porker:

              Where other similar industries have died due to Covid, I keep mine up operating such that I can keep my staff employed. I've given all an extra 10 days leave (covid-related) for them to use to take care of any aspect of this pandemic to deal with their own personal or family requirements. My staff get yearly bonuses on top of their monthly bonus payments - the business success is shared amongst all.

              My apologies for the hostility, however having read through your comments on this thread it became apparent to me that you jumped immediately to the defence of the employer, without thinking about the fact that it's a bank. There's no way this bank gives one iota about OP's partner's situation.

              I applaud the incentives you provide your workers - but they are far, far from the norm, you have to agree with me to some extent there, surely?

              • Porker on 08/05/2020 - 09:57

                @ThithLord: Thank you for your clarification post.

                Each of my staff have personal circumstances which influences how they work, but also their history of employment etc is a significant consideration on how things progress for them. My concern with the OPs situation is we are totally in the dark about the staff/employer history to say that what is occurring is bad. Indeed it's not my preference that staff stay behind and it personally raises alarm bells for me.

                If my comments were swayed in one direction, it's only towards the OP such that (assuming sex) he considers the situation first before automatically advising her something which he may not fully be aware of.

                You are correct also that I don't have experience with banking, I base my responses solely on my experiences with staff / employee management.

              • LlamaOfDoom on 08/05/2020 - 10:04
                +2

                @ThithLord: So it doesn't matter what the nature of the after work activity is?
                But it does matter that this particular employer is a bank?

                Ooookay.

  • kahn on 07/05/2020 - 20:48
    +11

    She works hard for the money. So hard for it, honey. She works hard for the money so her manager better treat her right.

  • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2020 - 20:58
    +2

    She already discussed with her manager 3 times that she needs to leave on time because of her commitments.

    Send an email to her Manager with HR in cc. At the very least, she'll have a paper trail that she complained and no actions were taken.

    • spackbace on 07/05/2020 - 21:03
      +4

      And then watch as she gets performance reviewed harder and harder…

      • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2020 - 21:05
        +5

        She already discussed with her manager 3 times

        I bet she's already "getting perfomance reviewed harder and harder…"

      • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2020 - 21:25

        Out of curiosity , is the 360 degree appraisal the norm?

  • brad1-8tsi on 07/05/2020 - 21:03
    +3

    If she's on a salary she'll have to cop it sweet. That's why she gets paid the big bucks.

    Hourly rate? Anything beyond 15 minutes I'd put in an OT form.

    Is it all take from the firm? Anywhere I've worked they know I've done extra hours and have been happy for me to disappear for haircuts, paying bills, etc. It's always been a fair bit of give and take.

    At the moment she might have to eat a shit sandwich.

    • flatwhitepls on 07/05/2020 - 22:21

      She tried to put it as over time but manager denied.

      Money is not the issue here. She is happy to hang around a few minutes extra. She choose to be part time so she can leave on time to meet her commitments.

      • Porker on 08/05/2020 - 07:41
        -7

        Just have her ask to go back to full time. It's not the time to be asking for less shifts when there is such adjustment to what 'normal' life is.

        Maybe the manager is unable to get another to compensate foe your partners decision to work less.

        Are the commitments critical or just personal preference?

        Maybe this kind of job isn't for her due to inability for flexibilty or efficiency issues or other.

        However, I think as OP you may only want to receive news that assist you in too ensuring your partner can work the way she wants to.

      • brad1-8tsi on 10/05/2020 - 18:26

        Is she in a Union? What does her delegate say?

  • BigBucko on 07/05/2020 - 21:12
    -4

    Sorry…way of the world. Take it or leave. I sorry its the modern world…employers want more…

    • [Deactivated] on 07/05/2020 - 21:22
      +4

      It's the way of the modern world.

      If one seeks to command greater respect, one needs to make invest in skills and/or networking.

      It's the way of the world. It's always been the way of the world.

    • Mechz on 07/05/2020 - 22:19
      +19

      You know wage theft is a thing, right?

      • ThithLord on 08/05/2020 - 08:27
        +2

        NAH, MATE, JUST SUCK IT UP!!1!

      • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 09:18
        -3

        Subject of discussion is on salary.

        Salary is undisclosed.

        We do not know if she is indeed being paid below the minimum $/hr.

        • Mechz on 08/05/2020 - 09:22
          +3

          Just because it's called a salary, doesn't mean the term wage theft is invalid.

          • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 09:24
            +1

            @Mechz: I know hence

            We do not know if she is indeed being paid below the minimum $/hr.

            • Tambani on 08/05/2020 - 13:47
              -1

              @[Deactivated]: Wage theft is not being paid for the time you have worked. Nothing to do with hourly rate.

              • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 13:50

                @Tambani: Salary is being paid for a working a position, not based on time.

                Minimum salary is based on what someone would be paid if they were on award wages.

                So, back into context, she may still be paid above the minimum award $/hr. Wage theft is being paid under the award minimum.

                Let me know if we need to get into practical scenarios for context.

        • Ryballs on 08/05/2020 - 18:25
          +1

          OP said in previous comment she's getting award rate so unpaid overtime would put her below award.

          • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 18:31

            @Ryballs: My apologies. My comments reflect the original post, early comments and any comments directly related to mine.

            They are not to discount the possibility of underpayment.

    • ozbjunkie on 09/05/2020 - 21:08

      Surely the attitude that led to workers rights improvements over the last 100 years. With your attitude, you could accomplish anything, you could even exploit your employees if you put your mind to it.

  • Porker on 07/05/2020 - 21:24
    +2

    Sounds like the whole branch is busy if others are too busy to let her out, and possibly she hasn't completed her daily tasks. E.g. refill the atm.

    If she leaves without completing her daily task, who is the lucky one that picks up the slack?

    Is she unable to fill the atm on time because there are too many customers or perhaps she's not efficient enough to process them quicker?

    Many influences here that you're not presenting and pointing blame at the manager.

  • Brick Tamland on 07/05/2020 - 21:25
    +4

    Part of the parcel with these type of customer service jobs.

    I wonder why the full time staff finishing at 5 don't deal with the late customers and other jobs like ATM re-fill to allow part-time to leave on time?

  • arkie0 on 07/05/2020 - 21:43
    +5

    She's on a salary which means she's expected to work reasonable overtime. https://www.fairwork.gov.au/employee-entitlements/hours-of-w…

    Make sure she requests everything in writing, explaining to them that due to her commitments anything over 15 minutes is unreasonable.

    Reasonable over isn't clearly defined however if you and employer can't agree, you can explain your case to fair work exactly like you have here and they will mediate for you.

    • dasher86 on 07/05/2020 - 22:44
      +10

      If she's on an salary that is at award level and she's working over time technically she is being under paid. I'd check with fairwork.

  • Tiredman on 07/05/2020 - 22:02
    +4

    I used to work as a teller in VIC. Off work time is 5pm but i'm lucky to by out by 6 after balancing the till, packing up the cheques, end of day quick meeting (pointless shit) etc… Most days closer to 7 if i need to do some sales emails.

    But we usually do our ATM top ups in the mornings before we open. Not saying she should suck it up but it happens. No one can get off work on the dot.

    • Aureus on 08/05/2020 - 16:55
      +6

      Yeah you were being exploited. Work 8 hours and then volunteer 2 hours of your time. It is horrible that so many businesses can get away with it.

      • Tiredman on 09/05/2020 - 14:08
        +1

        I used to work in Singapore. Maybe it's a habit. I can never make myself get off work on time. Besides, i could get a lot of potential sales ready for the next day. I did moved up fairly quickly in the bank because of the extra work i put in. I don't see myself being exploited, i chose to do it.

        • brad1-8tsi on 10/05/2020 - 18:31

          I had a manager that told us "If you can't do the work in the 40 hours allocated then maybe you shouldn't be here." He'd walk out at 5.00pm and turn off the lights no matter who was left in the office. :-)

          That place taught me a lot about time management, priorities and deadlines.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 07/05/2020 - 22:39
    +16
    1. HR represent the employer. Not the employee. Stop talking to them.
    2. NES states overtime must be paid.
    3. Now is not the time to be arguing with an employer due to changes to the Fair Work Act.
    4. Document every. single. shift. she finishes more than 15 minutes late. Speak to the Fair Work Commission in a month or 3 time (when the current shit blows over)
  • TheMindsetTraveller on 07/05/2020 - 22:47
    +13

    There are always one of these people in the workplace….

  • MrFrugalSpend on 07/05/2020 - 22:52
    +11

    I can't relate to these sort of posts…

    I'm a salaried employee that has been promoted several times from ground-level many years ago that now manages a division. I stay at work until the job is done or we can logically say "tomorrow's a new day". Always have - Never asked for any overtime pay. You're worried about 10 minutes!? …I've worked so late that I've not gone home AT ALL and stayed all night, slept 1-2 hours on the floor, then worked through the entire next day until 5pm then gone home to get something important done (e.g. due to someone else's error that had to be fixed, who also worked late because we are a team). Other times I go home on time, sometimes early.

    Now, after years of having done the hard yards, no one questions me at all. I've been promoted numerous levels, work mostly unsupervised in my own office building / division, with my own team and organise my own work tasks and priorities. If I have something I need to do for me, I just do it. No one ever questions if the work time is achieved.

    I don't make someone stay late in my team if they have to go for a legitimate reason and their time is up. However, I know a lot of other managers, and 'clock watchers' are never appreciated, nor are people who make it difficult when needed to do a little extra here and there. There's rarely 'direct' consequences, but it's mentally noted. It's a key indicator of commitment and attitude, and becomes relevant in many scenarios - e.g. When you want that promotion (but someone else is happy to stay the extra 10 minutes or even an hour when needed, but you aren't), or you are taking a bit too long getting some work task done (performance/output review), or taking personal calls or messages at work, or seen on facebook (or OzB) or chatting instead of working, or being 5-10 minutes late back from lunch or arriving in the morning, or need to take a sick day but didn't get in to the Doctor to get a certificate so are questioned, or redundancies are needed due to cut-backs such as from Covid-19 - you will not get the flexibility, trust, and appreciation in return. Whereas, someone who stays when needed, likely won't be questioned, will be given trust, and will be first considered for further career progression or job security (all other things equal).

    The question is, does she appreciate the job and is it a career path that she wants to progress through or not?… or is it 'just a job' and happy to push for exactly what she signed up for regardless of the unintended consequences.
    (Also check the employment contract for 'reasonable overtime' requirements and how it's dealt with).

    • fantombloo on 07/05/2020 - 23:12
      +10

      The question is, does she appreciate the job

      The question is is she invested in the job? It's all well and good for people to go the extra yard if they are doing it to further their own interests such as seeking promotions, a better rapport with the manager, etc. but if you're just in it for the work/pay transaction with no further interest then more work should = more pay or finish times should be respected. If the employer has an issue with that then that's another thing, and something the employee should consider, but it should not be automatically expected for people to be invested in their jobs.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 07/05/2020 - 23:15

        yes, quite similar concept…
        I would add on one condition - can she honestly say she works all her working time diligently?
        i.e. don't go pushing for the extra 10 mins to 45 mins of pay if you are quite happy to stand around chatting to a colleague about personal stuff, happy to check your personal phone chats/social media/shopping/browse news whatever in work time, or are sometimes late from a break or to work… if you think you are squeeky clean and giving the job 100% - then sure, say that and ask for the extra $s …
        otherwise, even if they haven't said anything, managers know and note this stuff, trust me (we didn't get to be managers by living under a rock and having blinkers on to what people are up to)

        • fantombloo on 07/05/2020 - 23:25

          In this case neither the employer nor employee give / get what they agreed to.

          Wouldn't it be better for employer to just tell employee exactly what they're thinking and not have hidden expectations? And vice versa?

          • MrFrugalSpend on 07/05/2020 - 23:31
            +2

            @fantombloo: Not necessarily, its part of being flexible and depends on the work type and culture. Managers don't want to be stepping regularly micromanaging because someone in their team of 20 is on facebook or chatting about their fishing trip with a colleague for 20 minutes because that allows rapport etc. There is an expectation that grown adults conduct themselves professionally and get the job done (and that would make them a bit of an a…hole boss)

            Hence why I bring it up, if you are going to make an issue of something, have a good think about what you already give back for your pay. Specifically if it comes down to counting every minute because 10 minutes over is not acceptable to you… its specifically a time factor - so think about whether you do you do what is expected of you for the full time it is expected of you before you ask for more money due to extra minutes. If you are happy to maintain that, fine.

            If you don't, you might get a rude shock over the coming months when the employer does start riding you harder to make every minute count.

            • fantombloo on 07/05/2020 - 23:36

              @MrFrugalSpend:

              depends on the work type

              Sure. If the work has a prescribed knockoff time then that says something about the type of work.

              • MrFrugalSpend on 07/05/2020 - 23:45
                +2

                @fantombloo: True, as I stated, I'd let anyone in my team go on time, particularly if they had to go (and do so regularly), particularly junior people who are mainly paid to be there for a time duration like on reception - which is probably like a Teller.

                If:
                A - Not invested in the job; and
                B - Don't have any bad work habits that rob the employer of time…

                then go nuts, ask for more money or hard stop time, however think about the consequences if you make a fuss - the manager may not think you are putting in the required effort for other reasons; or may learn that you aren't 'invested'.

                That's all - just giving a reality check perspective from experience about what it means for the OP to consider… take it or leave it

        • AustriaBargain on 09/05/2020 - 03:40
          -1

          don't go pushing for the extra 10 mins to 45 mins of pay

          That's bs. If you are working 10 minutes extra you should be paid for those 10 minutes.

    • gavin8761 on 09/05/2020 - 05:06
      +1

      "I stay at work until the job is done or we can logically say "tomorrow's a new day". Always have - Never asked for any overtime pay. You're worried about 10 minutes!? …I've worked so late that I've not gone home AT ALL and stayed all night, slept 1-2 hours on the floor, then worked through the entire next day until 5pm then gone home to get something important done (e.g. due to someone else's error that had to be fixed, who also worked late because we are a team)."

      And there is the reason why wages are dropping and penalty rates are diminishing, if one person is prepared to do to unpaid work why shouldn't everyone.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 09/05/2020 - 14:34
        +1

        Nonsense. I don't work for free - I work for an outcome that benefits both parties, and get promotions and salary (which has done the opposite of dropped accordingly) and job security and training and respect that reflects my attitude and work ethic. None of this it's 'us vs them' employer vs employee rubbish - it's not a battle, we're a team with common goals. I respect my employers and they respect me and it's served me well. Call it 'invested' or whatever but as a mere employee, I have found it is smart.

        Furthermore, sorry to bust your ideological bubble but wake up - despite some sector's penalty rates being cut (like frequently hard hit hospitality), overall in most other areas wages, penalty rates and benefits in this country remain some of the best in the world… we are very very lucky. We are a proportionately wealthy country with excellent wealth distribution, entitlements, protections and medical access etc. There are also so many costs get lumped on top of the raw take home salary like parasitic payroll tax and levies etc.

        I bet with a comment like that you have no idea how hard it can be to keep the doors open in some small businesses at times and how sad and heartbreaking it can be for SME managers to have to let people go when the numbers mean they can't legally keep them and keep the business profitable (as it legally must be solvent). Particularly those that need to open on weekends / nights / public holidays and pay huge penalty rates. I have seen people lose jobs because of this who'd happily have worked for closer to what those working weekdays get but neither party could legally agree to that and make it viable. Bye bye job and hello centrelink…

        At the other end of the spectrum, larger businesses are ever more tempted to send work offshore as technological barriers allowing remote work come down. There are billions of people out there who'd do the work for much less. That's why so many factories are closed in this country and we import more and more all the time. As the world catches up in education and technology, I've even seen this even hit things like design/drafting now as buildings are designed offshore, rendering, graphics / marketing content creation and online hosting, IT support, programming, and even engineering. Online services enabling this will make it more accessible to SMEs soon too and lose more jobs. That's why things may drop - simple supply and demand that we need to balance out.

        • That Guy on 11/05/2020 - 11:32

          I work by the same book of ethics. It has served me very well over the years and financially has paid off 10 fold in promotions.

    • neu11 on 09/05/2020 - 21:52
      +1

      Judging a persons worth according to what they are willing to sacrifice for their job? Might want to spend some less time at work.

      Also helps to not conflate your experience with other people's experience. A lot bad apples get to the top, and a lot of good people don't. Some of it might be hard work, a lot of it is luck. A lot of managers like to use the "commitment and attitude" trope as excuse to squeeze their workers for completely awful reasons just so they can look better for their bosses, or simply like to power trip or just can't think for thsemselves.

      Whereas, someone who stays when needed, likely won't be questioned, will be given trust, and will be first considered for further career progression or job security (all other things equal).

      Again, patently false. I have seen good workers let go and knuckledraggers promoted because one manager didn't like the "fit"; didn't like someone for being too soft spoken, for being too outspoken, and so on.

      • MrFrugalSpend on 10/05/2020 - 15:24

        "Judging a persons worth" - I'm not at all judging their worth as a person. What is relevant is how much they care about the organisation's interests, and I know that it is a key indicator of commitment to an organisation's interests that they don't do things like want to drop a customer like a hot potato to get out the door 15 minutes earlier.

        "A lot bad apples get to the top" - some do sure (based on what your opinion is on what makes them a bad apple) - but on average, a heck of a lot more who don't show commitment to the business's interests - don't get to the top. They may be bad apples for other reasons, but not too many will make it who make a fuss about (a) helping a late arriving customer; (b) conflicting with security issues / wanting to interrupt other people helping customers to get the door open; or (c) Needing to finish her duties before being able to leave (when a salaried staff member, not casual/hourly).

        "Also helps to not conflate your experience with other people's" - My experiences of the past couple of decades are what I have to go on to help guide others. My opening comment didn't say everything must be the same for the OP - I said "I can't relate to these sort of posts…" and I spoke openly about how I have been benefited by having a different attitude to the OP with my experience both as an employee and fortunately later in my career as a keenly observant manager among managers.

        "Again, patently false." - Given I am a manager and have seen this happen, it is inaccurate of you to say it is patently false - I believe you have overlooked where I said "(all other things equal)" - i.e. if the fit was the same, how outgoing (soft vs outspoken) etc …clearly it is not the only reason people will be assessed when other things are unequal. I believe what point you should have made is there is more things people are assessed on, which is largely stating the obvious. However you have highlighted a point which largely helps my argument also, and that is there is still a large amount of subjectivity in a manager's assessment of who to promote - not everything can be quantified fairly (although many try a structured approach) and so its important what impression they get of you.

    • RecklessMonkeys on 10/05/2020 - 14:18

      If it's ok for an employee to routinely work late, why can't the employee adopt the same attitude and arrive late?
      They'd be warned immediately that being late was not acceptable.
      These are double standards.
      Now, if from time to time something comes up that needs attention for however long - deal with the problem and move on. Even then it should be reasonable for a good manager to note all this and say 'take an early minute' the next day or whatever.

      Your point regarding someone lollygagging is valid, but our subject is a bank teller. They seem pretty flat out to me.
      The better explanation is that they are understaffed because someone higher up wants to save a buck. Banks aren't exactly known for their generosity , are they?

      • MrFrugalSpend on 10/05/2020 - 15:46

        I suppose that's fair for the OP's situation - if it is every single day and leans more towards the 45 minutes than the 10 minutes over, no matter how much they try to work flat out all day and organise themselves to leave on time then yes it is probably indicative that the paid working time is actually required to be longer.

        I'm just saying I personally would deal with it (but potentially note it to the manager if I think it is going unnoticed) to help out the manager/organisation, and have seen this sort of attitude pay off as career progression.

        • RecklessMonkeys on 11/05/2020 - 11:24

          Fair enough, but it seems that perhaps you can relate to the OP after all. She's approached the manager three times. There might be a problem in there that can be de-bottlenecked that makes everybody happy.

  • Melb69 on 08/05/2020 - 02:46

    I assume OPs partner a Gen I and @mrfugalsmith a Gen X or earlier. To all parties employer or employee need to look at themselves. Is the employee getting all her tasks done in the 6hrs efficiently. She's getting her breaks and checked her contract for overtime. That is the bottom line. She can ask to leave in time for commitments, but if she's not doing her work then suck it up. Start earlier. Discuss that with the employer so she can leave on time. Stop earlier with customers to allow time to do atm and paperwork.

    If employer not meeting contract then point it out to them. But really 15min extra on Salary or even longer just part of the norm. Otherwise go in contract hourly rate. I think OP wants flexibility which if your not willing to give and take on salary you need to consider. Hence my original post.

  • Lurk Hartog on 08/05/2020 - 07:49
    +25

    Teller boss that if she can't cheque out on time she's going to branch out. ATM, jobs are hard to come by so it may be better for her to just keep her feelings about this in the vault, though this might make her feel more withdrawn.

    • Antikythera on 08/05/2020 - 10:42
      +4

      We are all in debt to you for your analysis of the situation. You raise several points of interest.

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 09/05/2020 - 03:40
      +2

      leave her a loan!

  • newak on 08/05/2020 - 07:55
    +5

    This is a customer facing job and you cannot expect to leave right on the dot everyday. She is better off looking for another job which is non-customer facing.

    What if a customer comes in at 3:58pm and takes 12 min to leave, dump customer and go to commitments?

    • Flowerbomb on 08/05/2020 - 08:46
      +1

      Yup different jobs have different expectations. Also pays to be a bit more flexible as well to get promoted in the future.

      • Grunntt on 08/05/2020 - 10:32
        +1

        Unfortunately many businesses believe that flexibility only goes one way and excuses them from making good management decisions.
        I never expect my staff members to work regular hours in excess of what we agreed. Occassionally it may be needed but that is usually the exception as I see it as a failure by my managers to plan well. This includes in customer-facing roles.
        The operating hours, as far as customers are concerned are 30 minutes less than the staffed hours, so that the end of day tasks can be completed without impinging on people's personal lives and commitments.

    • capslock janitor on 08/05/2020 - 11:45
      -1

      Then could she cut back contract to 3.30?

    • dizzle on 08/05/2020 - 12:42
      +4

      I used to work at David Jones, and the rule was that if there's someone in your department you are supposed to stay. Security would walk through and advise if customers need to leave.

      However, that rarely happened. I would stay while there were customers, and when walking out of the store I would have to help other departments because the staff there had already left. What was worse was there were people who would close registers and be waiting at the staff entrance 15 minutes before so they could sign out on the dot and walk out the store.

      Often in these group environments, if you are leaving on the dot, you've left other people to finish your work as well as theirs. I now manage my own store and my staff are scheduled 15 minutes past closing to do that stuff. But if a customer is still there, they staff get paid until they leave.

    • Ryballs on 08/05/2020 - 18:40
      +2

      The amount of unpaid overtime that retail/customer facing positions are just expected to do out of the goodness of their hearts is ridiculous. During the 10 or so years I was in retail I must've worked hundreds of hours for nothing. I wish I had said something but unfortunately I was a lot less assertive back then. In one job the store manager expected us to come in half an hour early for a staff meeting on top of leaving half an hour late to help straggler customers, unpaid every day. If they want her to stay later they can damn well pay her for it.

    • [Deactivated] on 10/05/2020 - 11:49

      Then they should be paid for it especially if it happens frequently and systems should be put in place in customer service roles to account for this.

  • Speckled Jim on 08/05/2020 - 08:31
    +2

    The FSU has known about this (and other, sales-related issues) affecting bank tellers for over 20 years.
    The lack of reform should tell you something.

    • ThithLord on 08/05/2020 - 09:16
      +5

      Yep, how one earth would a bank be able to afford to pay their employees fairly? Think of their bottom line. What about the shareholders!

    • kanmen on 08/05/2020 - 11:18
      +2

      I was going to say this would be a good time to join your union. If you want to make change, you have to be a part of the group trying to make it. FSU would have a lot more power if they had members.

      • Speckled Jim on 08/05/2020 - 11:28

        It took them years to get stools for tellers, but they eventually made it!

        • spersephone on 08/05/2020 - 16:05

          Wow! When I was a teller there were definitely no stools. I used to come home and use my foot spa to ease my aching feet.

  • try2bhelpful on 08/05/2020 - 08:45
    +5

    The reason people tend to go part time is they do have outside commitments, like picking children up from school, day care. It is not, unreasonable, to expect that if a finish time has been negotiated to fit with these commitments that the hours be honoured. The other option is to see if she can move the commitment, a little, and renegotiate the hours.

    I agree with some others. Keep a diary of the hours worked, the interactions with the manager and the affect on your partners commitments for working late. Perhaps throw in suggestions your partner has made to enable her to finish on time. e.g. closing out her station earlier to allow her to complete all tasks by COB, finding out if there is a way she can, securely, let herself out etc. It helps if the employee can come up with ways to ameliorate the situation.

    If nothing else this provides some clarity around the issues, for your partner, and acts as a nice dossier to show the manager and/or HR. Make sure the dossier is factual and written in a professional, non emotional, manner detailing dates and times.

    Best of luck.

  • superdarkhumour on 08/05/2020 - 09:30
    +8

    Actually I once told my manager who was making me work OT to call my kids and explain to them why Daddy can't make it home on time, and told him that at this rate, my kids won't remember how I look like.

    FYI I don't have kids lol

    • ThithLord on 08/05/2020 - 09:43

      FYI I don't have kids lol

      Sorry to hear it, mate - how'd they go? Something spectacular, I hope?

      • superdarkhumour on 08/05/2020 - 10:41
        +3

        I'm the manager now. Life is good, still no kids.

  • MontyMacaw on 08/05/2020 - 09:41
    +1

    It should be in her contract. Also The extra time should have been explained at time of employment. And she should have explained her other commitments as well. It is the employer’s job to make sure they are honouring the contract and the employment laws. Another way to go would be to talk nicely to the manager and being an essential employee could be a bargaining chip (that they probably will challenge with the bank might make a billion or two less this year) and ask for a raise commensurate with the average extra work - if indeed it is extra work as per her expectations at time of employment. Also as another comment said if her true hourly rate is below the minimum wage she should have that addressed. I would guess they need somebody to fill this role in this manner so a discussion about the “problem” is fair enough as long as the manager is not some ladder climbing dick who gets off by taking advantage of people in which case it should be escalated outside the branch. As always cutting off your nose to spite your face is not always the most pragmatic solution.

    • Speckled Jim on 08/05/2020 - 10:42
      +2
      • Other tasks, as required.

      That one line is most likely in her terms of employment. In a retail banking scenario, it facilitates what often amounts to several hours per month in unpaid work.

      If she could negotiate a reduction of shift hours, knock off at 15-1530, she may be able to avoid the end-of-day processing.
      Good luck with that!

  • djsweet on 08/05/2020 - 09:43
    +2

    Reasonable additional overtime does not cover working extra time each and every shift. It is to cover the employer during exceptional circumstances. Most companies abuse the heck out of this - doesn't make it right though.

  • DarkOz on 08/05/2020 - 09:47
    +1

    Salary usually includes reasonable unpaid overtime worked. What is reasonable depends on individuals.

    If you find the unpaid overtime worked to be unreasonable you could:
    1. Advise the Branch Manager of your intention not to stay back after a certain time
    2. Renegotiate a higher salary
    3. Document the unpaid overtime worked and claim time in lieu as part of roster day off or annual leave
    4. Quit

    • dasher86 on 08/05/2020 - 09:59
      +1

      key question which is stated above is her salary above award?
      Once all the over-time is added up is she being paid the minimum amount?
      I wouldn't equate all salaried roles as equal due to the nature of a teller role vs something that has career path (nothing against tellers).

      • DarkOz on 08/05/2020 - 10:08
        +1

        Her salary should be above award wage otherwise it would be illegal by definition. If it was under award wage she could go to Fair Work and recover all the underpayments owed to her.

        It really depends on how much she is willing to put up with and how much this job means to her.

        • dasher86 on 08/05/2020 - 10:10
          +3

          OP said that she was paid on a salary at award rate - which is one odd to me.
          But if she is at award rate and is doing over time she is being under paid.
          If she is salaried and only a little over award rate if her over-time added up exceeds the gap between award and salary she is underpaid.

          • DarkOz on 08/05/2020 - 10:19

            @dasher86: I think we basically agreed on everything between salary and award wage.

  • OzHunterNSW on 08/05/2020 - 10:50
    +4

    You are working "over-time".
    Keep a diary of all times dates and reasons.
    Ask your boss agin in regard to such a situation. Ask why they feel they do not need to pay you overtime.

    THEN take the matter to your Union, or other Got body and have it investigated.

  • john_conner on 08/05/2020 - 11:02
    +3

    https://www.fairwork.gov.au/how-we-will-help/templates-and-g…

    This is your best resource.
    Check employment contract and enterprise agreement. If you’re on an award, overtime should usually be paid (quite generously I might add - time and a half, double time in some instances).

  • kanmen on 08/05/2020 - 11:21
    +1

    I would join my union if I haven't already. Then I would speak to my other colleagues, assuming it's happening to them too and get them to join too. If the rules are going to change for me, it will have to change for them too, so unless they do it I won't be able to do it on my own. Then the whole branch (or a majority) can go to the manager/HR.

  • g4z on 08/05/2020 - 12:22
    -5

    Be grateful that you have a job

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 09/05/2020 - 03:53
      +2

      Big 4 combined profit last year was 27 billion. they can eat a massive …. for underpaying what is rightfully the employee's proper wage.

  • sueos on 08/05/2020 - 13:01

    Ask to start later so you can finish later. That’s life working in a bank unfortunately. Almost all tellers who are part time will tell you the same thing. It’s not fair but that’s the way it is.

    • [Deactivated] on 10/05/2020 - 11:58

      Then things need to change.

  • [Deactivated] on 08/05/2020 - 13:21
    -1

    Works in a bank, and complains about the hours, oh please.

    • Vote for Pedro on 08/05/2020 - 23:21
      +8

      Works anywhere, expects to be paid for time worked, oh please.

  • RED COMET on 08/05/2020 - 17:35
    +8

    Well first of all (profanity) banks. Secondly if you say she has bought it up already a few times I would start looking for another job. Note that doesn't mean leave the job today and start looking, but look in your free time. If she's contractually paid to work till 4 then she's being exploited. Heaps of boomers and (profanity)-you-i-got-mine's will tell you stories of how they were lucky to even get home after finishing their job etc, but at the end of the day if they want to spend their life working overtime for free and bootlicking that's their preogative.

    Personally I don't have time for that so I would be looking for another job that treats me like a human being.

    • Protato on 08/05/2020 - 18:27

      Heaps of boomers and (profanity)-you-i-got-mine's will tell you stories of how they were lucky to even get home after finishing their job etc, but at the end of the day if they want to spend their life working overtime for free and bootlicking that's their preogative.

      Thanks for this line, pretty disgusting reading all the bootlicking comments every time salaries and unpaid overtime is brought up on ozbargain.
      Seems that plenty of people are happy for businesses/their bosses to profit off unpaid overtime. Is it not enough to be underpaid in terms of your production but you also you have to work for free…

  • Kranbone on 08/05/2020 - 18:45

    5 to 10 mins is not unreasonable and most roles in a similar field have that as a provision. If those extra minutes are so important to her, she may want to consider a more concrete career where she doesn't have to deal with a customer coming in at 3.59.

    • Vote for Pedro on 08/05/2020 - 23:20
      +2

      But 45 is not. The scale given by op is 10 to 40 minutes not your made up 5 to 10.

    • ProlapsedHeinous on 09/05/2020 - 03:59

      if 4pm is customer facing closing time, then the employer should work out how long it takes to finish the end of day tasks, and pay their staff accordingly by making finish time + eod tasks the actual finish time. you're right though about the 5-10 mins, usually it takes a few minutes at the start of your shift to get ready, and i think they even out.

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