Why Shouldn't We Be Wearing Masks?

witsa on 21/03/2020 - 15:14
Last edited 21/03/2020 - 17:00 by 1 other user

The official advice regarding masks seems to be don't need it unless you're sick.

I mean the first problem with this statement is that you don't actually know that you're sick. Then if you look at China and Korea and Hong Kong and all these countries that seem to be doing a good job at containing this virus, every single person is wearing a mask. Not just people on the street but politicians, reports, scientists and doctors etc.

Are they wrong? Are they all just overly paranoid? Do we have a right to judge when they've managed to contain this virus?

Are the advice to not wear masks just because there is a shortage of masks and that if there wasn't a shortage we should all wear one? If this is true, is that not absolutely crazy? The Chinese were able to supply masks for every one of their 1 billion+ ppl and we've had 4 months and not been able to find 30 million masks for our population?

Health & Beauty COVID-19

Comments

- - - - Trioboy on 23/03/2020 - 13:48
        
        @leiiv: yeah whatever suit your needs, this is something I already had. I wear them when I ride. now I also goggles for eye protection
    - ego22 on 23/03/2020 - 19:15
      
      u just wear a simple surgical mask under that or are they full 3m n95 masks? how much more harder is it to breathe with that and the mask on?
      - Trioboy on 24/03/2020 - 11:47
        
        @ego22: the full 3m mask. It is bit hard to breathe especially if I climb stairs. it can become hot under the mask too.
- lostn on 23/03/2020 - 16:47
  
  My sister gave me an old box of 100 masks to borrow as needed. The price tag on the box said $2.50.
ozizoy on 23/03/2020 - 09:32

Simple answer is we don't have enough masks for all Australian. So they need to allocate masks to people fighting in the frontline. Hope everyone stay safe.
g4z on 23/03/2020 - 10:10

Ask Scomo where are the masks if not, we take matter into our own hands. Buy them from China ourselves since the authorities unable to get them.then donate to the hospitals or we have to start manufacturing them here…..
- petry on 23/03/2020 - 16:58
  
  3 months late…
zeroxp on 23/03/2020 - 10:12

What is the correct way to wear and dispose of masks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrvFrH_npQI

Medical Respirators N95 Fitting Instructions 3M Health Care
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05wyH1-mLGk
richmond12 on 23/03/2020 - 10:13

the psychology and mindset of wearing the mask is interesting

as we are getting more serious, i think it will set in for some people that this is not a dream…

mute point though, we cant even get toilet paper let along medical grade masks..
xiabonan on 23/03/2020 - 10:49

+9
I'm Chinese studying in Sydney and I've been following this whole mask thing very carefully, below are my two cents on this topic though to be sure I'm no doctor or epidemiologist so do know that at the back of your mind when reading.

Masks do help. In fact they help enormously to prevent a healthy person from getting infected by a sick patient with COVID-19. This is why doctors and nurses need one, and it's best to be N95 respirator kind. Think about this, if masks are useless, why waste money & resources in equipping doctors and nurses with them?

COVID-19 can spread by asymptomatic carriers. This means a person might not have any symptoms but he/she is already infected by the virus and is able to pass it on to you or any healthy person. This is why it's not enough to just let the sick wear masks to protect the healthy — because one can look and feel perfectly healthy and still pass on the virus. This is in a way similar to how AIDS spread. You wouldn't know if someone has HIV or not, so it's always good practice to have protected sex.

Asian countries do not have the widespread social stigma against wearing masks. In fact, in Japan there's a culture for wearing masks during Spring due to their common allergy for flower seeds. Also, East Asian countries are the industrial and manufacturing powerhouses of the world. China was on Chinese New Year break when the outbreak started in China but factory workers were quickly summoned back and production ramped up. China is now able to produce 100 million masks per day. Japan did the same thing and was able to produce the same amount in a week. Taiwan was able to produce 10 million per day.
- lostn on 23/03/2020 - 16:51
  
  +2
  
  This is why doctors and nurses need one, and it's best to be N95 respirator kind. Think about this, if masks are useless, why waste money & resources in equipping doctors and nurses with them?
  
  Because they work in a place full of sick people with a range of illnesses, not just coronavirus? Even dentists wear them, and they're not dealing with sick patients. You don't want liquids splashing onto your face.
  - xiabonan on 23/03/2020 - 17:13
    
    +1
    
    They type of mask dentists wear and those who fight COVID-19 are different. N95 respirators masks are needed for coronavirus, because it is able to spread through aerolised droplets, i.e. when you cough or sneeze or just heavy breathing.
    
    https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavir…
    
    You need masks to prevent those droplets from getting into your nose, mouth, etc.
    - lostn on 23/03/2020 - 17:21
      
      Well I agree. But we are talking about any old masks here. The surgical masks are next to useless is the advice I've heard from doctors in my family, and health professionals on TV.
      
      The N95 masks are simply not affordable or available in the quantities desired.
      - xiabonan on 23/03/2020 - 20:41
        
        @lostn: This is also not true, I'm afraid. Any mask will be better than no mask. Although technically speaking you'll be best equipped with a N95, plain surgical masks are much better than nothing. Hence why you see doctors and nurses wearing them on TV, because they literally don't have N95s to put on. Also, the American CDC suggested reusing masks or even use bandanas and scarfs when running out of masks.
        
        https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/19/health/hospital-coronavir…
        
        The idea is, it's important to cover your mouth and nose to stop the spread of the virus. N95s are the best, surgical masks will do the job too, if there's nothing, a scarf is better than not wearing anything. That's the message.
netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 11:18
Wearing masks could help a bit, but there are two main issues:

Shortage of masks here.

It doesn't solve the problem because: (1) you cannot eat or drink with the mask on and (2) virus can still get in from other parts of your body (eyes, hands touching other parts of your body).

If masks actually can solve Covid-19, do you think China needs to lock down? Why do you think medical team working on patients infected by Covid-19 needs to be fully protected.

We know masks alone don't work. The cruise ship, Diamond Princesses, people were wearing masks (but they eat without mask on) and they had no idea who were infected.

Would you go into a room with a Covid-19 patient if we give you a N95 or N99 mask? If the answer is no, then mask is obviously not the solution.
- myusername on 23/03/2020 - 11:25
  
  i lived in china and hong kong.
  
  today is day 6 wearing mask in public australia.
  
  i never imagined this would happen here
myusername on 23/03/2020 - 11:24

+1

because boomers said so according to their infinite wisdom this is just a flu
OzzyOzbourne on 23/03/2020 - 11:53

So there are various views on this from different governments and authorities around the world and the media throws in their 2 cents too…. But the final say will be with the ozbargain community 😁😁
[Deactivated] on 23/03/2020 - 12:08

I bought masks from Daiso in Japan in 2014… not P2 or N95, but for my peace of mind (dont care what others think) i am wearing one when in public places.

As a citizen or not, everyone has the right either proactive or reactive (just dont regret if it is too late) against the Covid19.
netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 13:31

People wearing masks will tell you every bit helps. Even if it is 10%, 20% or 50% better protection (as some mask wearers are claiming), it is better than nothing.

People not wearing masks are going to point out, you need to worry about your hands and other hygiene more than wearing mask and the Diamond Princess cruise passengers were wearing masks (so whatever that extra % you think they had, it didn't work out too well). Furthermore, you cannot eat or drink with the mask on. Avoid going to areas with lots of people is more important than wearing masks.

Sure, you can wear masks to reduce the risk, but don't cut corners on other things you need to do. Medical staff need more than just masks (and we are talking about N95 and/or N99 masks).

Mask production here: materials cost too much, equipment cost, wages etc… By the time the company here is ready to make production, someone would be able to import loads from China and sell at dirt cheap price - then that AU company will go bankrupt. Some people will bulk buy masks here and most people probably won't be able to get any. Our government has no infrastructure in place to restrict each person to buy fixed number of goods. Yes, we might be technically a developed country, but in many way, we are under-developed.

If you have Asian friends or relatives and they can get you masks cheap, sure wear them. However, don't entice people here to wear masks and scare them. Leave the masks to medical people (yes, Australia do have masks and medical staff have access to them). There are other things we can do. Masks alone cannot extinguish Covid-19.

A lot of people in service industries don't have jobs due to Covid-19, I don't think it is wise to ask why people aren't wearing masks here now.
- Kikkoman56 on 23/03/2020 - 14:36
  
  I agree, I think on this basis too. I only have some basic surgical masks but the way I see it, any % reduction in risk I'd take it. Point with the gloves and eyes are taken too so I've been using disposable food prep gloves, sprayed down with dettol frequently (since I had that already and hand sanitiser is out of stock) and my old chemistry class eye goggles. I look absurd but hey, my office is still working and the boss next to me has lung cancer.
  
  Not going out is still my preferred option but if I absolutely must go out to get groceries I'm doing everything I can to lower the risk
froodh on 23/03/2020 - 13:44

Watch out for the idiots: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-20/coronavirus-hong-kong…
THL on 23/03/2020 - 13:50

About time we talk about the obvious issue. Personally I believe the advice shouldn't be 'Do not wear a mask if you are well'. Because, the incubation period of coronavirus is up to 14 days and there are many confirmed cases of asymptomatic carriers.

Below is WHO's advice: 'If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.' The problem is, how do you know if anyone near you has been infected? You don't. Anyone coughing on the Public Transport or in the lift could have coronavirus. You never know.

I can understand the intention to reduce the hoarding and leave these masks to the people who best need them - medical professionals and people who are sick. But if you are able to buy them somewhere else (i.e. from overseas), why not wear them? Many countries have government controls the supply of masks and distribute them evenly to all their citizens to prevent people bulk buy.

And the argument of 'Oh because most people don't know how to wear masks properly and therefore it's useless'. Then why don't we teach them how to use it? The same goes with washing hands. Do we tell people not to wash hands because people don't know how to wash them properly? We do the opposite. We tell them step by step how to wash hands thoroughly.

Most of the Asian countries are encouraging their citizens to wear masks if they can. Yes it doesn't completely prevent you from getting the virus, but nothing does. It's a combination of good hygiene practice, avoid crowded area and wear proper PPE to effectively reduce your chance of getting coronavirus.

The mindset here of 'Don't wear masks unless you are sick!', is purely mind boggling for me and I believe this will make a significant impact on Australia's effort to combat coronavirus.

Rant over.
- netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 14:00
  
  +2
  
  First of all, wash your hands does help. It's different to wearing a mask.
  
  The problem with wearing a mask is that it doesn't eliminate the problem as it only covers parts of your face. Doctors have pointed out your eyes have a high risk of getting the Covid-19 virus into the body too. So what now? protective eye gear should be worn too? How about your clothes could have virus stuck on?
  
  All these "we should wear masks" forgot to point out the other bits. In Wuhan, when people have to go out and collect food, they wear masks and a lot of them also wear protective eye gears. Then, as soon as they return to the house, they disinfect clothes, shoes with alcohol based solution. Next, they go and have a shower and change clothes. All the masks wearers here, are you doing all that?
  
  That's why doctors are not dumb enough to go crazy and recommend everyone to wear masks. Trust me, no doctor is dumb enough to attend a patient who has Covid-19 with just a N99 or P99 mask. If you truly believe 99% of Covid-19 virus will only target your nose and mouth, then sure wear masks like crazy.
  - THL on 23/03/2020 - 14:23
    
    Yeah great points except: If masks don't help, why do medical professionals need them when taking care of patients? According to your logic, masks are useless because there are many other ways of getting infected (i.e. eyes) so you don't need them.
    
    If you truly believe 99% of Covid-19 virus will only target your nose and mouth, then sure wear masks like crazy.
    
    Read carefully what I said. I said masks can help reduce the chance of infection (because it is good at catching droplets), which is the main form of transmission of coronavirus (sneezing or spit). It also helps you stop touching your face because of the physical barrier. Nothing can prevent coronavirus, except vaccine.
    
    The only logical reason to tell people not to wear masks is because of supply issue. Nothing else. In an ideal world if we have unlimited supply of masks, everyone should wear a mask.
    
    But if people want to buy reasonable quantity of masks and use them sensibly, why should people wearing masks get criticised for wearing them? I have masks that I bought from overseas and wear them when I go into confined/crowded places like lifts or PT. Why should I be starred at like I'm a sick patient and get told off?
    - netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 14:30
      
      -3
      
      Stop rubbing it in.
      
      But if people want to buy reasonable quantity of masks and use them sensibly, why should people wearing masks get criticised for wearing them? I have masks that I bought from overseas and wear them when I go into confined/crowded places like lifts or PT. Why should I be starred at like I'm a sick patient and get told off?
      
      Because what you failed to realise is that you are showing off. It basically has "I have a way to get cheap masks and you don't" written all over your face. Then, some of you guys go on and ask people: why aren't you wearing a mask? Aren't you afraid?
      
      If you were far too proud because you have a mask on without actually use your brain properly, you really are putting yourself in danger. A lot of people are having it tough here, if you don't try to at least "pretend" to show some compassion, then your education was wasted.
      
      Are you willing to sell your masks at cost to people willing to wear them? If not, it is wise to shut up.
      
      The reality is we understand you guys are more scared and some people are just more lucky than others (life is unfair after all) and we have more important things to worry about. If we cannot get masks and we don't want dodgy retailers to rip us off, we simply move on and have other measures. No mask doesn't mean we have to cry or scare ourselves to death.
      
      Also, far too many mask wearers over-hype the usefulness of the mask. Like I pointed out, it didn't help people on that Diamond Princess cruise ship.
      
      Why should I be starred at like I'm a sick patient and get told off?
      
      You don't know why? Easy, google. I am not going to bother with this one.
      - THL on 23/03/2020 - 14:44
        
        @netsurfer: Wow this discussion has turned sour very quickly. It went from 'masks are useless' to 'stop rubbing it in for people who can't get them'. I'm purely talking about the effectiveness of masks and the official advice from Australian Government. Never did I say people who don't wear masks should be questioned, but the other way around. It's funny how you don't respond to my facts anymore but now attacking my character.
        
        A lot of people are having it tough here, if you don't try to at least "pretend" to show some compassion, then your education was wasted.
        
        I never had a go at anyone. It's a tough time for everyone but please don't make me the villan for something I never did or say. People who hoard/bulk buy masks and sell them at ridiculous price should be penalised and those are the real villans.
        
        I'm upset because I got told off just because I wear masks, something I do to protect myself which millions of other people also do across the globe in this coronavirus pandemic.
    - netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 14:59
      
      You need to realise this is Australia. People think you are sick when you are wearing a mask. After all, as per WHO recommendation, you would wear a mask when you are sick.
      
      It's the same in the hospital here. If a medical staff has any reason to suspect you have Covid-19 and you don't have a mask on, the staff will immediately put one on you (to prevent you from spreading). That's the default mentality here. You put a mask on to prevent infecting others.
      
      That's the thing that is hard for some of you to get. The default motive here to put on a mask is to protect others, whereas your default motive is to protect yourself.
      
      And, you guys constantly asking why why why…. Basically, we "assume" you put on a mask to prevent infecting others… Then, we immediately feel: why don't you stay at home? Why come to school or office?
- lostn on 23/03/2020 - 17:04
  
  +3
  
  Below is WHO's advice: 'If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.' The problem is, how do you know if anyone near you has been infected? You don't. Anyone coughing on the Public Transport or in the lift could have coronavirus. You never know.
  
  If you're caughing, then you're not asymptomatic. If you're sneezing, then have the decency to sneeze into your elbow.
  
  And the argument of 'Oh because most people don't know how to wear masks properly and therefore it's useless'. Then why don't we teach them how to use it?
  
  We do. We also tell people how to socially distance to prevent infection, but do they listen? No, they go to beaches en masse instead. Telling someone how to do something is only effective if it can be enforced, and let's be honest. It can't be. Even if you are ordered to self quarantine for 14 days, there is no way this can be policed. When people see you in public, no one knows if you are under quarantine or not. "I'll just nick down to the corner store for a couple minutes, no harm done."
  
  Most of the Asian countries are encouraging their citizens to wear masks if they can. Yes it doesn't completely prevent you from getting the virus, but nothing does. It's a combination of good hygiene practice, avoid crowded area and wear proper PPE to effectively reduce your chance of getting coronavirus.
  
  They have long had a culture of wearing these, even before CV. Especially in places with high pollution such as China where the air is smoggy.
  
  The mindset here of 'Don't wear masks unless you are sick!', is purely mind boggling for me and I believe this will make a significant impact on Australia's effort to combat coronavirus.
  
  I've yet to see a peer reviewed scientific study of the efficacy of these masks against CV to answer this one way or another. Telling people not to use them in order to preserve stock for doctors is partially true, but the idea that the worlds governments are colluding to lie to their citizens about their effectiveness in order to achieve this goal is beyond belief. The world is simply not capable of cooperating so unanimously.
  
  There are however known risks involved with using them incorrectly, and you just can't trust that people will use them correctly even if taught how to. If you don't replace them regularly, they get moist and that moisture makes it a breeding ground for bacteria and viruses which is a bad thing. You have to avoid touching it or reusing it. Know how to take it off without touching the mask, and always wash your hands before putting one on, and after taking it off. Can you trust people to follow those guidelines? You can't even trust them to distance themselves from each other when ordered to.
  - THL on 23/03/2020 - 17:20
    
    That's some really good points. Thanks.
    
    the idea that the worlds governments are colluding to lie to their citizens about their effectiveness in order to achieve this goal is beyond belief.
    
    Cannot agree more to this. If they just be honest and tell everyone the real reason, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But to make it sound like wearing masks can be bad for you is truly shocking.
    
    In the meantime, you've got other countries like Singapore and Taiwan, where governments immediately take controls of the supply of masks to make sure no bulk buy by any individuals, distribute them evenly across citizens and also reserve a sufficient amount for their frontline medical personnel.
    
    Supply of masks and the effectiveness of masks should be two completely separate discussions.
  - petry on 23/03/2020 - 19:07
    
    -1
    
    The Who is big pharma controlled - which means yank.
    
    yanks don't care about yanks - and everyone else is second, which means non-existent.
    
    yank style government is here - its not for the people -it about feeding America - and the yanks now control well over half the planet. They print technically worthless money because well over half the planet is instructed to buy it.
    
    We the sheeple of Australia have given away our autonomy, have given away our economic future, and will not protect our country from climate change or our population from pandemics - its not the AMERICAN WAY. You don't want to believe it, you won't accept it, buts that's the reality of everyones lives now - for many that will soon end - and they are mostly non-productive so its a cull of sorts - permitted by our masters.
  - systema on 25/03/2020 - 16:10
    
    At this point of time, peer reviewed evidence specific to CV is probably out of the question as we are less than 3 months from the initial outbreak. Having said that, other clinical evidence around respiratory infections can be valuable due to the similar transmission vectors utilised by CV and other viral respiratory infections such as influenza.
    
    Current evidence from an Australian study is that masks can prevent 60-80% of influenza infections in a home setting if used routinely. This means masks could be a useful tool in fighting viral outbreaks like the CV. Full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/
    
    There is also other scientific evidence showing that wearing a surgical mask does provide some level of protection against respiratory infections.
    
    Case in point, Uchida et al (2016) suggested that "wearing of masks were effective in infection control." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551…
    
    Systematic review conducted by Barasheed et al (2016) suggests that "Facemask use seems to be beneficial against certain respiratory infections at MGs (mass gatherings)". https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(16)31010-4/fulltext
    
    While it might not be able to provide the same level of protection as a P2 / N95 respirator, surgical masks themselves appeared to be able to provide at least some protection to their wearers. In fact, research conducted by Radonovich et al. (2019) indicates that "Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31479137
    
    You may also want to look at some other evidence provided by Siddharth Sridhar, who is a Clinical Assistant Professor at The University of Hong Kong here - https://www.facebook.com/siddharth.sridhar.5/posts/101583870…
    
    Encouraging people who are displaying symptoms to wear masks and enabling asymptomatic population to wear masks in public / mass gatherings should not be mutually exclusive.
    
    Argument that the general public are not able to don/doff masks properly or won't don a mask even when recommended should not be a reason for providing this recommendation either - a lot of people don't wash their hands properly, some of them don't even wash their hands, but we don't stop people from washing their hands, do we?
    
    Furthermore, the current advice appeared to be triggering unnecessary hatred towards those who choose to do so to protect themselves or others - case in point: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-20/coronavirus-hong-kong…
xuqi on 23/03/2020 - 14:04

+1

Sure, show a place where I can buy a suitable mask at a normal price, and people will most likely start using them.

At $15+ per mask if you can find them, most won't bother.
- netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 14:21
  
  Exactly, those people think they are so smart, doing the "right thing". They fail to realise they are actually insulting people and showing off.
  
  They most annoying thing is they keep trying to convince you how wrong your are and you are putting yourself in grave danger. They really rub it in.
  
  Ask each one of those mask wearers to pay $15+ per day for wearing a mask, see how they will feel.
- qiaoer on 25/03/2020 - 11:36
  
  +1
  
  The masks cost less than 80 cents each if you buy from China and shipped here. I am curious why our government has not placed order yet. The cost will be lower if the government bulk buy them.
  - gamemaster on 25/03/2020 - 19:14
    
    +1
    
    Who knows if the mask are any good or if certification to standards is even real. You couldn’t risk the health of individuals with mask of uncertain standards.
    - qiaoer on 25/03/2020 - 19:50
      
      The reason why I know this is because a friend has reached a mask supplier for hospital and they have sent their certificates over for review. However, the minimum quantity is 100,000 for bulk price.
      - gamemaster on 25/03/2020 - 22:00
        
        @qiaoer: The problem is those certificates could be fake. It’s not unheard of suppliers sending certificates that aren’t genuine or for different products to the one being sent.
        
        I see those suppliers on Alibaba. 100k masks for $90k, claiming to be KN95/N95/P2 with certificates.
        
        qiaoer on 25/03/2020 - 22:10
        
        @gamemaster: Yes, I know the certificates could be fake. This supplier is referenced by a doctor in China. Also as I stated above they provide surgical masks to hospitals. Last, you can check the certificate against Chinese authorities to verify.
        
        Masks were also in short in China a few weeks ago. But now they have the virus in control and masks are everywhere.
haemolysis on 23/03/2020 - 14:27

+2

Keeping hands away from the face is key. People LOVE to adjust their mask. It gets itchy, it gets damp, it feels awful. Touch, touch, touch, touch. On balance, it becomes easier to just tell people "don't wear them" because keeping the hands away from the face is more important.

Strictly speaking, if you are using them correctly, a mask is better than nothing.

But advice isn't targetted for the well trained professionals. It's to everyone else. For that reason, it is better to reccommend: "do not use masks."

The other reason we are told not to use them is simple rationing. Healhcare workers need them.
- petry on 23/03/2020 - 16:56
  
  there's no gear in the system because our pathetic government didn't make or buy any back in January.
  - lostn on 23/03/2020 - 17:11
    
    you mean they didn't spend excessive money on things that are needed once every 100 years and not needed any other time?
    
    Why don't we also build 10 new toilet paper manufacturing plants churning out TP that we have no place to store just in case one day a pandemic causes people to stockpile them?
    - petry on 23/03/2020 - 18:50
      
      -1
      
      glad to see you support killing the old the disabled the sick and the poor, in fact any Australian you don't like because once in every 100 years the government needs to spend some money to stop it.
      
      you probably wrote the same self serving I like my tax cuts fluff when the hellfires were raging, and ordinary people were dying.
      
      and just how much is the same government giving business's who rort tax? tens of billions of tax payer dollars - and the old the sick the homeless and the disabled can just bloody die heh?
      - lostn on 23/03/2020 - 18:58
        
        @petry: the stuff you're suggesting they do in hindsight just isn't practical or feasible.
        
        petry on 23/03/2020 - 19:48
        
        @lostn: what you changing your script?
        
        have all of Australia's pollies been on holiday since last year?
        
        didn't watch the news whilst putting out all those press releases?
        
        wait till its 2 late and then state need hindsight - your optimism seems based on stupidity…
        
        I supposed it worked for the captain of the titanic - oh no he had balls - he went down.
lostn on 23/03/2020 - 15:07

+2

Unless the mask is the expensive N95 mask (even more expensive now that there are shortages), it won't keep out viruses.

N95 is difficult to breathe in and is not intended to be worn for more than a few hours. This will make it very expensive to maintain, if you can find stock at all.
coolbzk on 23/03/2020 - 15:49

+2

from the status of these countries with mask wearing culture, they all looking not that bad, Korea, Japan, infected numbers are all under controls at least.
for those which saying masks are useless, getting worse.
- netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 16:15
  
  No, that's not the main reason. The main reason is that those countries were/are able to do more tests and those countries got blacklisted much earlier, which means less people want to go there. They also employed lockdowns earlier.
  
  Being able to detect as many carriers as early as possible is vital. If masks really is as magical as some of you claimed, then since those countries' people wear masks, there should have been 0 new case for weeks in those countries.
  
  They still need to be very careful as all it takes is for an undetected super spreader to cause another wave of havoc. I'd rater keep quiet instead of jinxing them. I know at least one Asian countries recently started having more cases (due to citizens returning from overseas).
  
  If it is such a big deal to you that most Aussies are not wearing masks, then go to Japan, Korea or whichever Asian country you believe has Covid-19 under control and have most, if not all people wearing masks.
- lostn on 23/03/2020 - 17:14
  
  +2
  
  That's a correlation, not a causation.
  
  Those countries are doing better because they were prepared. They bore the brunt of SARS which hit them hard, and made sure they knew what to do in the event another outbreak occurs. Australia, Europe, USA.. these countries didn't have to deal with previous pandemics and weren't prepared. They assumed that if it happens again, it won't affect them, it will be contained by other countries, so they didn't have a plan prepared, and honestly didn't have any experience dealing with it.
  
  I expect in future all western governments will come well prepared for the next pandemic.
  - petry on 23/03/2020 - 18:55
    
    +2
    
    you optimism is based on what?
    
    zero prep for climate change deliberately.
    
    now zero prep for pandemic known about 3 months ago…
    
    1 terrible excuse provides no wiggle room for the shit about to occur.
    
    and you want to give them a third chance - mate you must be linked or wearing blinkers…
    - lostn on 23/03/2020 - 18:57
      
      you learn from past mistakes. We weren't prepared this time. Next time we will act quicker when it happens.
      
      The reason China locked down the country as quickly as they did is because of their past experience with SARS where they took too long.
      - petry on 23/03/2020 - 19:09
        
        @lostn: Learnt nothing from the hellfires- zero prep- you need to sell the papple message better. Back to your agency
petry on 23/03/2020 - 16:54
there's 2 reason's oz ain't got no gear.

in Jan scummo smarting from his Hawaii holiday farce was forced to spend some money belatedly fighting the expected hellfires because the situation was politically hot. Dead aussies did't count. He wasn't about to spend anymore.

The yank overlords steering this bunch of clowns told scummo and his evangelical headcases covid would be fine. No test kits needed etc, just like climate change - no action needed.

Look trump and his superrich mates are going to make a lot of money from this recession buying aussie assets, and you can just sit back and not worry about it. Just keep on allowing the far right to alter things to suit their control over this pathetic country.
pformag on 23/03/2020 - 16:57

+4

We wholesale import from China. All food packaging items. Every one of our supplies has told us to wear masks and have also offered to send free N95 non-medical masks to us.

This is the exact wording from one of them:

1.Watch your body temperature!
2.Keep 2 meters away from stranger, and stay at home as much as possible!
3.Do a good job of disinfection and cleaning!
4.Be sure to wear a mask!!

The above four point are what we must do well in this period of time.
- petry on 23/03/2020 - 17:00
  
  +4
  
  australians can't do that because there are no masks in the health system let alone outside it….
  - pformag on 23/03/2020 - 17:09
    
    Well we can bring in 40ft containers of N95 within 4 weeks. China has no issue sending. I am unsure as to why bunnings would not buy this stuff?
    - petry on 23/03/2020 - 17:12
      
      presumably political orders…
  - ego22 on 23/03/2020 - 19:39
    
    if everyday australians had masks. they wouldn't wear them…
- lostn on 23/03/2020 - 17:16
  
  Did they actually have ! after every sentence?
  - pformag on 23/03/2020 - 17:42
    
    copy and paste.
- punk000 on 27/03/2020 - 19:21
  
  oh here come China saving the world from Chinese virus
netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 17:11 Comment score below threshold.
- petry on 23/03/2020 - 17:18
  
  +4
  
  yeah let some smart racist with an agenda tell us bunch of thick aussies what we can say and do rather than explain
  
  Why Australia didn't start making masks or buying them back in January 2020?
  - netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 17:34
    
    You can buy masks from feeBay if you want to. You want to play with percentage, you can. N95 and N99 masks, they are not that cheap and they are uncomfortable.
    
    Why Australia didn't start making masks or buying them back in January 2020?
    
    Why don't you ask the government? China might not have mask shortage anymore, but some Asian countries still have mask shortage issue. They can only have limited number of masks per week and they need to use their ID card or medicare card to buy masks each week.
    
    Honestly, I've gone through this already. You need more than just masks if you want to be safe. You need eye protection and as soon as you returned from outside, you need to disinfect. It's best to go have a shower right away and change clothes. If this is the way the government want us to do or this is the way Australians prefer, then we currently have supply issue on many items, not just masks.
    
    It has also been pointed out that you need to avoid touching your face and re-adjusting the mask increases that risk. Furthermore, if you believed the virus will get trapped on the outside of the mask, then you need to dispose the mask carefully and immediately wash your hands when you take off the mask.
    
    Also, is wearing a mask going to give you a false sense of security so you ended up going out more?
    
    These people with masks their relatives and friends bought for them. Some of them got them through connections. Some of them clearly contributed to the initial mask shortage in those countries.
    - petry on 23/03/2020 - 18:43
      
      I just did ask - you think their web monitoring units don't follow this site? Dream on….
      - netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 20:38
        
        @petry: The government cares more about ensuring medical supplies are available. When I talked to a colleague of mine about shortage of masks here for general public back in Feb, he told me masks are not an issue for people working in hospitals. Think about those people first. There are items hospitals really need, masks are not one of them. Our industries are busy making sure hospitals have them. Don't forget the 2019-2020 bushfires. Quite a lot of masks were used up.
        
        You can get masks here. There are plenty of sellers on eBay selling them. You could also buy from overseas sellers if you prefer. It's easier to import them from China and have our local industries work on more pressing needs for hospitals.
        
        Right now, social distancing is more important. If you considered some of the recent cases of infection, some of them happened in a restaurant where one person in a table has Covid-19 and he infected his friends. How are masks going to solve this? There was also a case in Asia where a hospital staff was infected and they traced it back to the kitchen area.
        
        South Korea, China still have new cases today and people there wear masks.
        
        Below is from our government's Web site:
        
        If you are well, you do not need to wear a surgical mask as there is little evidence supporting the widespread use of surgical masks in healthy people to prevent transmission in public.
        
        If you truly believe our government lied, then certainly go get masks and use them.
        
        petry on 24/03/2020 - 11:13
        
        +1
        
        @netsurfer: your mate knew jackshit - re-use already in operation in all systems
- lostn on 23/03/2020 - 17:19
  
  When you are sick, we prefer you to stay at home, rather than going to school or office. If you must, certainly wear a mask, but don't get upset when people are not happy to see you or avoid you.
  
  I wish someone told my employer that. They want us working when sick because sickies come out of their extremely tight budget. If you take a sickie, you don't get replaced. Other people who are salaried have to do extra hours unpaid to cover the slack.
  - netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 17:43
    
    Yeah, your bosses might want you to work. But, I don't. I want you to stay at home and recover.
    - petry on 23/03/2020 - 18:56
      
      nice u care no pollie does
- TEER3X on 24/03/2020 - 19:08
  
  Where were your ancestors born?
  
  Unless you're indigenous, stfu.
keejoonc on 23/03/2020 - 19:25

Sick of people saying WHO says this and that. If you still believe WHO has people's health as their top priority, you are very naive. How can you think that based on how WHO behaved in the last 2 months? They are basically puppets controlled by Chinese money.
- coolbzk on 23/03/2020 - 21:53
  
  +1
  
  then you believe your gov?good luck
  - keejoonc on 23/03/2020 - 22:04
    
    Believe them for what?
- petry on 24/03/2020 - 11:12
  
  +1
  
  who is yank controlled - try reading some facts
  - keejoonc on 24/03/2020 - 11:13
    
    -1
    
    try reading up on what "facts" actually mean.
ego22 on 23/03/2020 - 19:28

+2

Can everyone reading this page who is getting the confidence to go out because of all this mask talk and after watching a few YouTube vids on how to correctly use the masks. just remember that the droplets when sick people breath and cough can also very easily get into your eyes and make u sick. just like breathing the virus in can.
so unless your wearing a full face P100 3M respirator or at least tight fitting safety goggles also, you are not very protected. dont go out in public unless u REALLY need to.
- netsurfer on 23/03/2020 - 21:36
  
  +3
  
  Nah, to those people, Covid-19 always targets the mask and gets trapped. The Covid-19 virus is super intelligent and always go for masks. Never goes for eyes, clothes, hair, or smartphones.
  
  Honestly, on top of what ego22 mentioned above, remember to wash your hands BEFORE and AFTER wearing a mask. Anytime you touched the front of your mask, you need to wash your hands again. You want to sanitise your shoes and clothes when you return home (to protect your love ones). It's best to have a shower immediately, change clothes and wash the clothes. The reality is that if you really want to start talking about doing everything safe, there is a lot you need to do. And, because there is so much you need to do, you are really better off minimising going to public areas. Wearing a mask alone and thinking that's safe could be more dangerous.
  
  If you want to go down the path that wearing a mask is 10%, 20% or x% safer than without, then as long as you realise you are still taking risks going out and remain cautious, that's fine. But, don't assume a non-mask wearer won't take alternative measures (such as reduce going out to public more than you).
  - berry580 on 23/03/2020 - 23:34
    
    Alternatively, you can just be a true blue Aussie. Have Vegemite toast, Four & Twenty meat pies and go to the beaches.
keejoonc on 23/03/2020 - 19:31

+5

If people deliberately go out more than they need to because of masks, they are a silly as the people saying masks are useless.
- Kamsi on 23/03/2020 - 19:48
  
  Today we went into a fruit and veg shop didn't realize I need to bring a mask because we were the only couple that didn't wear a mask.
- berry580 on 23/03/2020 - 23:42
  
  It's useless when the minority is wearing face mask.
  
  But can be very effective if the majority/ all wears face mask and do not touch the surface of any public property or anyone else.
  I.e. it's useless, in Australia.
  - keejoonc on 24/03/2020 - 11:10
    
    Yet another non-sense. Masks protect yourself as well as others. I don't see how it's useless just because not everyone wears it.
JsonDough on 24/03/2020 - 10:35

+3

Covid patients dont go to rails or surfaces to cough.. they cough, the droplets/virus roam around for a while before settling to surfaces. Thats the time people can inhale it and the use of mask can help with that.
tspec on 24/03/2020 - 13:21

+7

Just my 2c re: masks - as a Doctor (Anaesthetic Registrar) who will likely be on the frontlines.
Just trying to provide a little bit of education as to why some masks are recommended for certain situations.

The fundamental problem is trying to decide whether SARS CoV2 (virus responsible for COVID-19) is transmissible via droplets or if it is truly airborne.
The vast majority of "airborne" illnesses are actually spread via respiratory droplets rather than being truly airborne.
There is no scientific evidence to prove that SARS-CoV2 is a true airborne virus - most sites claiming "airborne" transmission are actually referring to droplet.
True airborne transmission is more significant, as viral particles are much smaller compared to a droplet of fluid.

Droplet/Aerosol
- Viral particles are suspended in liquid droplets (sputum, mucous, saliva) and are expelled from the infected host with coughing, sneezing, talking etc.
- Viral particles are deposited on surfaces that these droplets land on and transfer of droplets to a susceptible non-infected person may result in infection
- If virus containing droplets are deposited onto a surface, the liquid from the droplet would evaporate resulting in viral particles being left behind on the surface.
- If these deposited viral particles remain viable, subsequent contact with this surface by a person could potentially transfer this to their hands (and subsequently to their respiratory tract if we keep touching our faces)
- There is some evidence to suggest surface viral viability is Stainless steel > plastic > cardboard > copper (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973) but it is unclear what levels are required to remain infectious.

Airborne
- Viral particles travel in the air after being expelled from infected host
- Viral particles once contacted with the respiratory tract of a susceptible non-infected person could lead to infection.
- Similarly, viral particles directly deposited onto surfaces could lead to transmission as mentioned above.

With respect to masks:
1. Standard surgical masks - are effective for preventing droplet transfer. Not effective for prevention of Airborne viral transfer.
2. N95 masks - more effective for preventing airborne viral transfer.

When would we use N95 masks
- Used for healthcare workers with direct close contact to patients and potential aerosol-generating procedures
- For what is deemed an Aerosol generating procedure - see Appendix 1 - Please note these interim guidelines are a couple of weeks old, but most hospital policies (including my own) adopt a very similar strategy. (https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020…)

Other important things:
1. Hand hygiene - you could be carrying the virus after touching anything!
2. Don't touch your face/mask - you could be spreading virus particles to whatever you touch.

Lastly…

Please, please, please - Stay the F@#$ at home unless absolutely essential.
- petry on 24/03/2020 - 13:59
  
  -8
  
  How? store rationing drives out carers every day to feed the sick and the disabled they care for - They can't shop for the week anymore they can't shop barely for 2 days now….
  
  oh sorry you're a doctor - reality is not in your remit.Now what's your ppe stocks like?
  - tspec on 24/03/2020 - 14:32
    
    +3
    
    I appreciate my reality is not the same as some others.
    
    Nowhere have I said don't got out at all, but to limit it to essential trips.
    
    I too have had to make trips out to the supermarket grocer once-twice a week to buy necessary groceries.
    
    I have not had too many issues buying the absolute essentials from my grocer/butcher/supermarket - I would urge everyone to reassess what they deem to be essential items so you can minimise how much time you spend out and about.
    
    My personal PPE stocks count to a bottle and a half of hand sanitizer and that's it.
    
    Lastly, if you want to consider swapping my reality (if you have the required skill set to be heading in to the hospital everyday to look after these sick patients - granted our Victorian hospitals are yet to be flooded, but they will - and our ICU is still full of regular non-COVID19 patients), get in touch and we can swap. I'd love nothing more than staying home as much as I can with my family too.
    - hayne on 24/03/2020 - 16:16
      
      Hey tspec, thank you for the work that you do in saving people’s lives. Sounds like some people take it for granted and feel it’s their right to have medical staff put their own lives on the line in a time like this to save the rest of us. Thankfully I think they’re in the minority.
    - petry on 24/03/2020 - 16:30
      
      -2
      
      How? store rationing drives out carers every day to feed the sick and the disabled they care for - They can't shop for the week anymore they can't shop barely for 2 days now….
      
      I still can't buy essentials - I can't buy more than 2 days of food at a time now - and looking after the critically ill without any respite or help has got a whole harder. I wish I could just stay at home and had a fit and well family but that's not my lot. Like thousands of aussies doing it tough we're doing it tougher now, and you reckon it's a bit of a holiday?
      - tspec on 24/03/2020 - 17:38
        
        +1
        
        @petry: I don't doubt for a second that lots of families are doing it tough.
        
        Nowhere in my responses have I asked you to stay at home and never leave.
        All I'm pleading for is for people to keep this to as minimal a number as possible.
        
        I'm sorry that in your area/situation the minimum possible may be every second day.
        
        Hopefully things improve once idiots stop hoarding but what we've seen from a lot of the Australian public over the last fortnight it's very much a "me first" mentality and people underestimating the seriousness of the situation.
        
        Unfortunately, it's probably too late to avert a potential crisis and the whole health sector is bracing for the inevitable.
        
        Nowhere have I mentioned that caring for a sick family member is a holiday, and yes it may take a gargantuan effort. Hopefully this does not require you putting your life on the line with a sickness that poses anywhere between a 1 in 500 to 1 in 50 chance of death.
        
        petry on 24/03/2020 - 19:00
        
        -1
        
        @tspec: well of course that's the effect of rationing on those who can't buy more than 2 days of food now at 1 supermarket….
        
        hoarders just made it worse for the sick the elderly the disabled and their carers, supermarkets didn't help. and when the carers are all dead the system will have to pick up the slack.
        
        your mortality figures are way 2 low by the way… reckon those are for hospital staff, not the people in the community already struggling.
Dack Smith on 24/03/2020 - 13:55

-5

The Commonwealth Government of Australia do not require people who are well to wear masks.

This is the official line.

To believe other quack advice is to be uninformed and un-Australian.
- petry on 24/03/2020 - 14:04
  
  +4
  
  your house is on fire - do you:
  
  1 do nothing and drop to your knees and pray
  2. take off your shirt - soak it under the garden tap or the pool and get back in there to try and save your family.
  
  According to our prime minister 1 is the Australian way.
  - luffyex2010 on 28/03/2020 - 05:39
    
    3). Call for a fire rescue…
- keejoonc on 24/03/2020 - 14:13
  
  +1
  
  Right. Because governments and politicians never lie and other nations who mandate wearing of masks are all ill informed and crazy?
  Oh and please stop using the word "un-Australian". WTF does that even mean? Does it mean a nation of panic buyers? Toilet paper hoarders?
- sfk10 on 24/03/2020 - 16:11
  
  +2
  
  The same government who welcomed a boat load of positive people into sydney whithout the community knowing. Yes they are doing an exceptional job.
- deliriousdave on 24/03/2020 - 23:41
  
  +1
  
  Trying to protect yourself and others is now un-Australian? (what a dumbass)
- minksta on 28/03/2020 - 08:48
  
  Me thinks that Dack Smith's satirical little haiku has just gone woooooooooooosh
Insision on 24/03/2020 - 14:48

+1

Just wear mask & wash hands ..save ur ass..dont worry bout others what they think..future expenses if in ur hands 😂
stinkydog on 24/03/2020 - 14:57

+5

Was at the international airport not too long ago and this woman exclaims loudly "look they've got masks on, they must be sick!" Her poor husband looked so embarrassed.

We wore masks because my wife is pregnant and I'm severely asthmatic. The woman proceeded to itch between her eyes and nose right after lifting her hand from the escalator. Pretty sure she was one of the reasons we wore the masks.

Why Shouldn't We Be Wearing Masks?

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