Why Shouldn't We Be Wearing Masks?

witsa on 21/03/2020 - 15:14
Last edited 21/03/2020 - 17:00 by 1 other user

The official advice regarding masks seems to be don't need it unless you're sick.

I mean the first problem with this statement is that you don't actually know that you're sick. Then if you look at China and Korea and Hong Kong and all these countries that seem to be doing a good job at containing this virus, every single person is wearing a mask. Not just people on the street but politicians, reports, scientists and doctors etc.

Are they wrong? Are they all just overly paranoid? Do we have a right to judge when they've managed to contain this virus?

Are the advice to not wear masks just because there is a shortage of masks and that if there wasn't a shortage we should all wear one? If this is true, is that not absolutely crazy? The Chinese were able to supply masks for every one of their 1 billion+ ppl and we've had 4 months and not been able to find 30 million masks for our population?

Health & Beauty COVID-19

Comments

    • moo on 21/03/2020 - 17:00
      +14

      LOL. People wearing mask these days because of air quality? Have you been living under a rock over the past couple of weeks?

      • tomleonhart on 21/03/2020 - 18:45
        +1

        troll got to troll i suppose :P

        • moo on 21/03/2020 - 19:14
          +1

          Hah. Very fitting. Sage the Troll. Kinda rolls with the tongue..

  • KillBotFactory on 21/03/2020 - 18:14

    What we should do is distribute non-surgical, non-P2/N95 masks for compulsory use outdoors. Then at least sick people won't be able to cough everywhere. Getting healthcare grade masks for everyone is impossible now.

    • sajidmib on 22/03/2020 - 23:36
      +1

      Ebay is full of surgical masks and 2 days delivery time

      • zrach on 23/03/2020 - 00:10
        +1

        overpriced

        • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 15:49

          a reflection of supply and demand.

          If anything, the prices you see for goods in grocery stores and pharmacies are underpriced because they could easily sell at a higher price.

    • FutureTech on 24/03/2020 - 14:41

      sick people shouldn't even be outside in the first place

  • bluesky on 21/03/2020 - 18:20
    +3

    Comment posted on the other thread, on how to make DIY face masks from Hong Kong Shenzhen University.

    If you believe having some mask is better than none, then this simple-to-make and cheap mask is a good balance, without contributing to the shortage crisis.

    Came across reports that claimed even a scarf or bandana would help, but not sure how true that is.

  • Geekomatic on 21/03/2020 - 18:37
    +5

    Wearing a mask is for the sick person to not cough/sneeze which transmits the virus.

    Wearing a mask if you're healthy is not recommended because the moisture you exhale can actually trap pathogens and give them a breeding ground, which you then breath in.

    FYI

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2020/02/29/no-you-do…

    • Ughhh on 21/03/2020 - 18:42
      +9

      Wearing a mask if you're healthy is not recommended

      What if you thought you were healthy, but is actually sick?

      • Lockieasy on 23/03/2020 - 03:37
        +1

        They're still fairly pointless unless you're coughing/sneezing in which case you shouldn't be out in public anyway because you are highly contagious with or without a mask.

        • Ughhh on 23/03/2020 - 16:24
          +4

          A lot of people spit (unintentionally) when talking, I would assume that's also a common method of transmission?

          • kevsta on 23/03/2020 - 19:56

            @Ughhh: Agreed. I just said "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers" and my monitor is disgusting.

      • AS2035 on 25/03/2020 - 11:06
        +1

        There are no masks available.

        If you suspect you might be sick stay home.

        • Ughhh on 25/03/2020 - 13:36

          Coronavirus is asymptomatic, Which was the whole point…

      • netjock on 26/03/2020 - 00:02

        You mean people who think they are smart but actually dumb?

        • Ughhh on 26/03/2020 - 10:58

          The virus is asymptomatic for a while, you could be that dumb person right now LOL

          • netjock on 26/03/2020 - 13:14

            @Ughhh: LOL scare mongering. Reputable sources here use the word "could", you aren't even an expert. But you are probably an expert at scare mongering.

            • Ughhh on 26/03/2020 - 13:36

              @netjock: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/…

              Lol at you. I guess theres no reason to quarantine overseas people or at the borders

              • netjock on 26/03/2020 - 13:45

                @Ughhh: LOL look at you. Not able to tell the difference.

                1. Quarantine is a totally different matter.

                2. Asymptomatic I searched through your document there is only two parts where "asymptomatic" is mentioned.

                While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different.
                For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection,
                requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection
                would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.

                It is one OR the other. Some people just think it is nothing or something else doesn't mean it is asymptomatic.

                You're an expert at unable to read.

                Let's settle on the fact that people started wearing face masks a month ago which is way to early and if health care professionals who are suppose to look after you get infected and die. We're good as dead too.

                • Ughhh on 26/03/2020 - 15:37

                  @netjock: Lol at you. Please stay away from civilization. You sound like of those tweens who don't care about vulnerable people dying, just a wimpy flu alright.

                  • netjock on 26/03/2020 - 15:51

                    @Ughhh: You mean the one where you call me dumb, where my response was about people who over think it?

                    Yes you have over thought about it. Just stop panicking. Not everyone is walking around asymptomatic. It is like jumping at your own shadow.

                    If you want to panic, panic around people from or returned from USA and Europe people. They are the biggest importer of COVID 19 now

                    • Ughhh on 26/03/2020 - 17:06

                      @netjock:

                      You mean the one where you call me dumb,

                      I seeeeee, reading is not your strong suite.

                      The virus is asymptomatic for a while, you could be that dumb person right now LOL

                      There there. Stop overreacting . You also called thousands and thousands of people dumb, doubt theyre crying over it though atm.

    • tomleonhart on 21/03/2020 - 18:47
      +8

      I understand the recommendation.

      However this virus is believed to be spreading way before the person is shown any symptoms so I do think if we have enough mask (which we don't) then we should be wearing it. Wonder if the cotton mask is any good :-/

      • Ghost47 on 23/03/2020 - 10:31
        +1

        Sadly I have to agree. It'd be a utopia if only sick people wore N95 type masks to prevent spreading their sickness, but as you said people could simply be asymptomatic yet carry the virus.

        If by "cotton mask" you mean the surgical masks, I don't think they're very effective at all.

      • Debuting on 24/03/2020 - 21:28

        It might stop you from catching it when you are touching other surfaces and accidently scratching your itchy nose. (Everyone's seen that video of the health official in the US who licked her finger before touching the page to help lubricate it before turning to another page, if she had a mask she might be safer; any mask)

        Furthermore, droplets from people sneezing are much larger than your ordinary PM 2.5 particles and will be caught in the cotton mask.

      • AS2035 on 25/03/2020 - 11:08

        Most masks are to be used only once.

        SO if you go out every day, that's 7 day a week you will need 7 masks. Each mask costs min $5.. that's $35

        Think what if you will need one every day for 3 months..

        • netjock on 26/03/2020 - 00:03

          Can just pay for it with a toilet roll a week ago.

    • jowu15 on 22/03/2020 - 09:08

      Did you see frontline doctor!!!! Who don’t wear mask n protective gear

  • Lexan on 21/03/2020 - 20:34
    +5

    Some idiots bought most of the masks and re sell them for a high price. This including toilets roll 😡

  • triviums on 21/03/2020 - 21:32
    +4

    They won't be effective unless people follow the proper protocol for using them i.e don't touch the face unless you have washed your hands.

    Every single person that I have seen wearing a mask so far did not use hand sanitiser or wash their hands before removing or adjusting the mask they are wearing.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/03/2020 - 23:18

    Can't buy for a reasonable price plus makes my anxiety worse knowing people are staring at me.

    • SnoozeAndLose on 22/03/2020 - 14:18

      What is reasonable price at the moment?

    • eek on 23/03/2020 - 11:38

      Supply vs demand. Supply shortage plus weak AUD, we will be hit hard when purchasing them.

      • AS2035 on 26/03/2020 - 14:14

        Weak AUD is good for the country… go to school.

  • Jared17 on 22/03/2020 - 08:09

    $15 for 3 masks. I can't afford it

    • SnoozeAndLose on 22/03/2020 - 14:17

      eBay selling $10 for 5 masks 3ply

    • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 15:52

      that's a day's supply if you're using them correctly.

  • ferny52 on 22/03/2020 - 08:49
    +3

    One can always make them, there are ‘patterns’ and instructions available online. But, I will not be bothering myself. I have understood for a long time, that face masks normally only work to limit the transfer things from the infected and that that effect is fairly limited. Properly designed and fitted surgical masks and face shields worn by medical people are different; they do help lower the risk of infection for those amazing individuals (who are all absolute heroes and angels). I have long inwardly laughed at anyone wearing a face mask on the streets of Australia. I suspect they may even do harm occasionally by giving the wearer a false sense of security. PS Have had some heated debates on this one with some friends recently, largely female seniors who are otherwise intelligent and well informed. They is a widely held belief that masks do help. Me? I’m practising social distancing, washing my hands vigorously and often with soap and water (not that hard to do) and trying to not touch my face with my hands (hard). All the best everyone, in these unusual times.

  • Bob Svargis on 22/03/2020 - 09:01
    +2

    How do you know that China supplied masks to all 1+ Billion of its residents? Everyone seems to assume that they did, but you can’t be sure of that going by the media coverage alone.

    Anyway, the hospitals are being very careful with mask allocation due to stock levels and if anyone really needs them, it’s the hospital staff. Most masks are single use and the cheapies are only effective for 30 minutes anyway.

    • jowu15 on 22/03/2020 - 09:18
      +1

      I originally came from Eastern China n government in my city sales mask for $0.5 a mask up to three masks a day but one not every one but not everyone can get, each day who get mask depending on there id number

    • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 15:55
      +2

      china has been donating millions of them (and hazmat suits and other medical supplies) to other countries daily. They are manufacturing them in full force.

  • Waltervp on 22/03/2020 - 10:54

    Just flew in from Amsterdam where cafes and restaurants etc were closed and the airport security did a very close and personal thorough body frisk without even wearing a mask!!! I checked with his supervisor and she said it was ok! I think that was just as bad as me landing in Sydney eventually and being told to home isolate for 14 days and then let loose in the airport and mingle in queues and cafes facing cancellations and delays as I flew from Sydney to Melbourne and eventually Tasmania - 12hrs later - where I went into isolation. I tried to steer clear of people the entire way, but obviously touched and breathed on lots of surfaces. I noted the Australian public is still very blassez about social distancing. One foreign woman with child was hysterical on one flight because aircrew and everyone seemed to be continuously crowding her and she was scared the crew would pass the virus to her or/and child! Even the supervisor stood too close to her trying to comfort her as she was yelling through tears for the supervisor to keep a distance and leave her in peace.

    I think masks wouldn't hurt!! Not sure why we aren't wearing them just to prevent spit and droplets coming from our mouths, never mind the mask not being the right grade!

    • trienchieu12 on 22/03/2020 - 12:17

      Because if anyone here wearing mask will get discrimination due to prejudice still exists in this pandemic that only sick people wear mask.

      • zwolf on 22/03/2020 - 17:54

        what would being prejudiced entail, people keeping their distance? mask-wearers would likely consider that.. a win?

        I don't think people get shifty around mask-wearers, but they'd they get shifty around people that look sick or are coughing/sneezing etc..

  • AS2035 on 22/03/2020 - 12:06
    +2

    We should be, but there is a shortage.

    Hospitals are running short. TV shows are donating their supplies so that surgeries can go ahead

    All masks are made in China.

    • Cluster on 23/03/2020 - 01:47
      +1

      3M P2/N95 masks are made in the USA, but the catch is the components are locally and internationally sourced. That's a weasel statement for saying crucial parts are sourced from elsewhere (probably China) and the product can't be assembled without it.

      Outsourcing crucial health and safety equipment to one supplier that could on a dime turn around and become your enemy is dumb. But hey, it's cheap, and that's all that counts right?

      • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 16:00
        +1

        there's a cost for everything. The job of government is to manage risks and find the best compromise. Being extremely risk averse may prepare you for a black swan event like this but it will come at a great cost when there is no such event. Finding the optimum balance is what a good government does.

        You could manufacture everything locally on US wages, if you don't mind that everything will cost a lot more money and that everyone will be poorer as a direct result. And your goods won't be competitive against imported goods that were made cheaper somewhere else. Which then leads to your manufacturing going out of business because people are buying the imported stuff instead. And we are back to where we are now: countries with cheap labor do the bulk of the manufacturing of low value goods.

      • VBO on 24/03/2020 - 12:50

        This is what capitalism does.

    • Kamsi on 23/03/2020 - 19:45

      We should not buy anything that made in China. We don't support communist regimes therefore we rather die then wear a mask. How stupid do I sound.

      • netjock on 26/03/2020 - 00:06

        Haven't you heard the catch cry "better be dead than red!". But then it seems like now people think it is "better dead than read!"

  • nignucial on 22/03/2020 - 12:38
    +5

    It's pretty bizarre that the government tell people not to wear masks because of shortage and "not using them correctly"…

    These are just excuses - they should have increased the supply by producing more (like the situation with TP) and educated the public on proper ways to wear masks instead. But I guess that's too much to expect from our government hey?

    • HighAndDry on 22/03/2020 - 13:29
      +4

      Not really - the government is looking at it from a whole societal level, not an individual level. For society, especially with expected shortages, the best use of masks is for front line personnel who need them and know how to use them effectively, than the common person who doesn't.

      And front line personnel using them correctly can mean up to a dozen per shift per person, so shortages are no joke.

      • zman09 on 23/03/2020 - 07:42

        There is expected shortages because we have a silly government without any foresight.

        They could as easily just get EBay/Amazon/Gumtree to ban selling of masks. With no way to on sell the masks for a profit, there is no motivation to buy them.

        Making more locally would also help.

        • HighAndDry on 23/03/2020 - 10:17

          Facebook marketplace? Via chat apps? Etc. You can't blanket ban private transactions, because then you're 1. Going to cause more of a panic and even more panic buying by people just hoarding them, and 2. Giving shops and businesses an arbitrary advantage because they're also private sellers.

    • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 16:05

      These are just excuses - they should have increased the supply by producing more (like the situation with TP)

      TP is actually in plentiful supply. The warehouses are brimming with it. All three major manufacturers ramped up their production to 24/7.

      The problem is the distribution is being bottlenecked by lack of trucks.

      Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0yzVCSZOw

  • [Deactivated] on 22/03/2020 - 23:01
    +1

    There are hopsitals with surgeons that are having to re-use masks because of a shortage.

    Stocking up on masks and using them when it's not needed is making healthcare system worse

    • zman09 on 23/03/2020 - 07:45
      +3

      The anger for the shortfalls should be directed at the government not on people being irrational trying to protect themselves.

      There should be no need to choose (health care or regular people) as the state and federal government should have provided for them.

      • Mrgreenz on 23/03/2020 - 09:21
        +3

        So the government should have face mask factories sitting idle, just waiting for a 1 in 100 year event, to ramp up production, probably in the order of 10x - 100x?

        They should also have:

        hand sanitiser factories
        soap factories
        ventilator factories
        hospital bed factories
        hospitals to put the beds in
        toilet paper factories

        ready to go aswell

        • leiiv on 23/03/2020 - 10:05
          -2

          No, but they could build one in one month. Or mandate or give incentives to private sector to do it.
          They just lack of foresight.

          • HighAndDry on 23/03/2020 - 10:19
            +1

            @leiiv:

            but they could build one in one month.

            Lol they what now? And the supply chain and equipment and staff you'd need to actually get production out of these factories?

            The real world isn't a video game where you throw arbitrary resources at something and your desired output just pops out.

            FFS.

          • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 16:12
            +2

            @leiiv: ROFL, we aren't China.

            Building a building takes many months. First you have to find a spot, which might involve acquiring someone else's property. That takes time also. Then there's the planning stage, the blueprints and design. Then you need permits and approval from the council. Then you have to deliberate this either at council level or parliament level. This stage alone can take years! Then actual construction will take months. Then there's a bunch of inspections and compliance to do. It needs to be signed off by a number of bodies. All of this is regulated.

            There's so much bureaucracy and red tape that goes on that constructing a building on short notice just isn't possible.

            China can skip all the bureaucracy and build a hospital entirely in 10 days because their government doesn't need to debate with anyone or vote on things. There's no opposition party, and the citizens don't get a say. This is one advantage of such a government.

            At the drop of a hat, they can lock down 700 million citizens.

            We cannot do that. Very few countries can.

            • leiiv on 28/03/2020 - 00:29

              @lostn: All of that is just one big fat excuse. Everything can be made possible when there is determination, as history proven.
              All countries have laws than can allow the government to do whatever it takes in the interest of national security. Even if the law is less draconian, you can do it with money.
              Even a private enterprise can make a mask factory in 11 days:
              https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/printing-money-b…

        • quanticism on 24/03/2020 - 18:49

          Is it that unthinkable? That's how the military operates. Soldiers trained, employed and ready to move out at any moment. Nukes, tanks, jets, subs all maintained and ready to go. The only difference here is that the enemy is a virus and not an opposing nation.

          Bill Gates already pointed out this in his TED talk. Michael Osterholm also gave similar feedback in Joe Rogan's podcast. And as the former put it, the cost of it all would still be a fraction of the military upkeep and less than the value destruction that has happened over the past few months.

          • Mrgreenz on 25/03/2020 - 09:15

            @quanticism: The military has more functions than moving out, in fact their main funcion; in my oppinion is their existance is a deterrent.

            If covid 19 was reluctant to invade Australian shores due to the sound of the 10 care and maintenece mask factories firing up their production lines then yeah maybe it would be worthwhile.

            • quanticism on 25/03/2020 - 14:30

              @Mrgreenz: An enemy that invades with no regard for deterrents sounds like the bigger threat here. Is it "worthwhile" to have a measures for dealing with such an enemy? Should everything be BAU once things cool die and we wait for a more deadly virus to be cooked up by Mother Nature?

            • leiiv on 28/03/2020 - 00:31

              @Mrgreenz: No need to have them sitting idle. Apparently, they can be made in 11 days..
              https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/printing-money-b…

      • [Deactivated] on 23/03/2020 - 12:50
        +1

        there's no anger from me. I'm just saying public education about masks is needed because surgeons are going without whereas you get these teenagers buying up all the masks, stealing them, selling them to other unsuspecting citizens who don't enve need them

  • baker bob on 22/03/2020 - 23:37
    -7

    Whenever I see people wearing masks I think to myself "how kind, they don't want me to get their germs". They are less effective if you are healthy and may even lead to making you sick should you wear one.

  • Wallyt99 on 22/03/2020 - 23:57
    +9

    "Don't wear masks - they don't protect you anyway"…. Meanwhile paramedics, police, doctors…. All wearing masks.

    • zman09 on 23/03/2020 - 07:46

      But they do protect others from you if you are infectious but not showing symptoms. Which is what the gov cannot understand.

      • dengziyi on 23/03/2020 - 10:32

        No they don't if you don't know how to use it. You touch the outside of the mask with your hand while adjusting the mask? Your fingers are now contaminated.

    • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 16:14

      These are people on the front lines dealing with people with all sorts of sicknesses, not just coronavirus. A surgeon isn't going to want blood splashed onto their face are they?

      • ego22 on 23/03/2020 - 19:06

        u think the government and healthcare workers are all scrambling for masks because they just dont "want blood splashed onto their face"??…
        well u could save the governments billions if u just went out and told them that all they need are the face shields they already have! blow their minds.

  • dealhunter-au on 23/03/2020 - 01:37
    +5

    https://imgur.com/a/EvgDhid
    Difference between wearing mask and not wearing.

    Those Asian countries had faced to SARS in 2003, they all have experience to deal with this virus(SARS and COVID-19 are the same type of virus ) thus the Australian health Department has no cue and experience how to prevent it. Wearing mask is the best way to prevent the virus. It does protect urself and others. If you are not wearing masks, australia will become the second Italy

    • Ghost47 on 23/03/2020 - 10:40
      +3

      I have to say that there is actually many more factors to that chart than "these countries wore masks look what happened", as per this article.

      Whilst masks likely did help, there were many other factors to the success of these countries against SARS-CoV-2. Their experience with SARS helped them greatly. Australia claims to follow along with the policies these countries have instigated but we've done it at a much later time, because frankly we are a backwards lazy country whose culture is ingrained with the "she'll be right mate" mentality.

  • Cluster on 23/03/2020 - 01:45
    +4

    During World War 2 the USA managed to go from producing cars to tens of thousands of tanks and bombers within a couple of years, apart from all the other material suddenly required for war.

    We're all in a war against a virus right now, so surely producing some three layer plastic fiber masks in Australia is far simpler than designing and building new bombers. Unless we have outsourced virtually all manufacturing and cannot figure out how to make basic products ourselves it should be possible.

    I mean, what's next? Producing Australian military uniforms in China just because it's cheap?

    https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-12/xenophon-slams-decisi…

    Oh dear…

    • leiiv on 23/03/2020 - 02:56
      +1

      Exactly, two things need to be produced with utmost priority: test kits and masks

    • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 16:43

      Australian flags, stuffed kangaroos and all the merchandise being sold leading up to Australia Day every January, all have MADE IN CHINA written on them.

      • netjock on 26/03/2020 - 00:07

        Our economy is made in China

  • Ononono on 23/03/2020 - 04:26
    +18

    Even ignoring the supply issue, there is a strange hatred for wearing masks in Australia.

    I have a stash of masks I brought back from Korea and have been wearing them when I go out. Every single time I have heard snide passing comments from people. Comments such as "masks are useless, you look like an idiot", "look at this clown", "why don't you just bloody stay home". I've also had multiple instances when I've been told to take off my mask because it was making people feel uncomfortable.

    It's really mind boggling, especially coming from Korea where the mind set is the complete opposite and anyone not wearing a masks is ridiculed.

    • dengziyi on 23/03/2020 - 10:35

      In Korea, there is 8000 people infected compared to Australia's 1100.

      But also I think the sentiment comes from: Australians not using masks regularly when sick and anyone wearing masks is perceived as sick.

      • eek on 23/03/2020 - 12:25
        +8

        Orrrr, take Taiwan for example. Had the first case before Australia did. Similar population to Australia, but over 200* the population density. Everyone wears masks even before COVID19 hit. They have 169 cases and Australia has over 1000.

        • wkd on 23/03/2020 - 22:44
          +2

          Taiwan learnt from SARS

          Australia on the other hand has no idea wtf they're doing

    • Ghost47 on 23/03/2020 - 10:40
      +3

      Welcome to Australia.

    • lostn on 23/03/2020 - 16:45

      I've also had multiple instances when I've been told to take off my mask because it was making people feel uncomfortable.

      Just tell them you've caught a bit of a cold and don't want to spread it, but doctor says it's nothing serious.

  • berry580 on 23/03/2020 - 08:20

    Because the Australian govt saids so and ozBargains likes to save money.

    I've been wearing masks on public transports since Mid Jan. Good luck fellas, have fun on the beaches.

  • Trioboy on 23/03/2020 - 09:00
    +1

    I bought a few packs of safety masks from Aldi a long time ago. it was marked down as no one was interested. Kept it in the storage. The wife was complaining then, saying I'm collecting rubbish. how the times have changed…
    I have been wearing the mask since early Feb. I wear a face shield over it for aesthetics.
    I don't get the logic around people telling the public not to wear a mask. Maybe I'm not smart enough to understand.

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