Medical staff that rely on masks, not just for coronavirus but general cross-infection control are having to go without because uneducated people think their masks are going to stop the coronavirus
There have been studies showing wearing a mask can reduce the chance of catching and spreading the flu. Somewhere in the region of 4x-5x at prevention, when used properly.
I'd say that's pretty significant. The WHO basically lied to the world when they said a mask won't help. They did so because of the shortage for hospital staff that need the masks more than anyone.
why would anyone believe WHO at this point, they just took China's word and said there is no evidence it will transmit in the community
@yannyrjl: That is so not true. The whole purpose of a city level lockdown is to prevent the spread of the disease and it happened in January when the Chinese locked down Wuhan. It is the Australian government keeps saying there is no indication of community transmission until it is too late. Australia is among the first few countries stopped Chinese from entering into the country and it definitely worked.
WHO never lied about community transmission.
I quote below from The Guardian as of 27/02/2020
Link: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/feb/21/explainer-how-…
“The only new COVID-19 detections in Australia in the last two weeks are eight cases in Australian passengers repatriated from the Diamond Princess cruise ship,” the AHPPC said in a statement issued on Friday. “There remains no evidence of community transmission in Australia, with thousands of negative tests for COVID-19 in the last week alone. the risk to the Australian community from travellers from mainland China appears to have reduced significantly since the inception of travel restrictions. This could justify some further easing of travel restrictions.”
@allenhori: https://townhall.com/tipsheet/katiepavlich/2020/03/20/the-wo…
Don't restrict your news to only CCP friendly sources, I'm not sure if you are aware to say the Guardian is left leaning is probably an understatement. Just look at their reporting on the Hong Kong Protests.
I really can't trust the news source so you can then go and try to trace back to the original WHO tweets, if they haven't been taken down already.
@yannyrjl: I’m trying to avoid negs and having a healthy discussion here, to be clear: I totally agree what the CCP did to those 7 doctors was unfair and it subsequently caused the breakout in Wuhan.
But you are comparing a mid-Jan WHO twitter post with a late Feb Australian news. Forget about if the Chinese tried to cover the truth or not back then and if WHO just copy/pasted what they were told. The news was posted at the end of Feb, it is more than clear to anyone the disease will spread fast and becoming out of control if we do nothing. Tens of thousands of people were infected in China. No evidence of community transmission in Australia doesn’t mean it won’t happen. And what the government did was completely ignored the fact and didn’t do much other than stopping people from a few selected countries from entering into the country. I didn’t quote The Guardian on purpose it is merely a report of what the Australia official said.
Look at the situation in China now, their country-wide lockdown + enforcing masks worked and when did WHO said anything about masks won’t work in Feb? It never said anything about masks won’t work.
Wuhan is about to come out of the lockdown now. I don’t want to go down the human rights path just the fact people get to live is the first priority. If they have a problem with CCP, at least they can now live to fight.
HK is a totally different story. As far as I know I don’t want the CCP point their fingers to how TAS/ACT should operate and if the Brits returned HK to China in 1997, it is theirs. They have the ultimate right to decide what is “the best” for their land. I don’t know what the full story was in HK but I do have very close cop friends, if anyone’s trying to attack them on the street while they are on duty, I say they have every right to defend themselves and shoot the mobs. Just look at what the US police would do if they see people as a threat to their safety. The HK people my have the right starting point but it definitely ended in police against crazy violent mobs. I as a normal person would respect the police and co-operate if the they are in operation and ask me to step back.
My whole point is, our government was too slow to react. There are more infected people coming from the US than China as of today as the PM said a couple of days ago. We are already behind, what can we do to help flatten the curve? Wearing mask is a sensible solution if you have to go out and see people. What the WHO said in Jan is irrelevant to what it is now and there wasn’t a lie to start with since they never said anything about masks won’t work .
@allenhori: if you don't know much about HK I suggest you take the time to read up on it to get informed on it and understand the conditions as well how the protest went about before spending a large paragraph on the topic. Again, search multiple sources, on the ground interviews, commentary from China as well as abroad.
While you have remained courteous, every point you didn't want to talk about or glossed over are in fact the crux of the problem: whistle blower cover-up, human-rights abuse, Chinese pandering by UN / WHO, media bias against travel bans, medias left leaning stance etc.
I think it's not productive to blame at this point as the best approach is to solve the problem, but people should not forget or gloss over what happened.
Also, if China forced every single person to wear masks or any form of other covering available, so obviously they believe it works. So when you say they managed to keep it under control, don't you at the same time advocate for Masks which is what the OP originally asked about.
Also, the only reason I commented on this post is because you mentioned WHO never said about community transmission, which by the tweet I pulled up evidence the opposite. You yourself admit it, and in all likelihood I agree they just took the Chinese claim and legitimised it, but they are still responsible lending that little credibility they had to the lie (and the CCP already knew given they destroyed lap samples early on).
@allenhori: Also I think language is important, I'd say what the CCP did to those doctors was "unfair" is a fairly strong understatement considering several are now dead under suspicious circumstances. Framing like this could definitely inflame the conversation rather than help. To me it's akin to saying "… what the Hilter did to the Jews were …"
@allenhori: I'm not sure how aware you are on how China works, but their City Level lockdown is very much different to what the Western world imagines it.
Also the lock down was at the end of Jan, shortly after City government encouraged massive gathering, after shutting down Whistle Blower Li Wen Liang and his group of doctors.
You can check the Wiki about him below, look at how early he warned people:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Li_Wenliang
@yannyrjl: should have listened to Taiwan.
but if we lawyer for WHO, there are different types of masks, ie surgical vs n95 (then not only wearing but the handling of masks may cause issues as well as the supply).
@juki: Yes, Taiwan tried to warn them, but WHO just decided to believe China.
Look at Hollywood, NBA and now WHO appeasing China for a few more $$$ and now all suffering the consequences. Reminds me of Neville Chamberlain's appeasement to Nazi Germany.
Link the study? Also that's the flu, not coronavirus.
And like i said droplet protection stops working after 20 minutes, so unless you are replacing your surgical mask every 20 minutes, you are contributing to the hospital shortages and them being exposed and transmitting the virus in a hospital setting.
Sick of having to educate clueless people that just believe random news articles. You are actually making the situation worse having clinicians spread diseases in hospitals
@[Deactivated]: Do you think there is a major difference in how the flu and coronavirus is transmitted?
I highly recommend watching this for some more insight from an expert, it will help educate you further on the topic.
@TEER3X: ughh so you are one of those who just think covi-19 is a bad flu.. no point even dsicussing with you.
going by your source being a UFC fighter podcast, you are one of those..
@[Deactivated]: No, don't be an idiot. I despise the UFC (and Josh Rogan) but don't hold any judgement of anyone that doesn't (or does).
The video features Michael Osterholm, he's one of the most knowledgeable people on this pandemic.
Obviously covid-19 is much worse than influenza, but mainly because we have never been exposed to it and have zero existing immunity to it…. I do however believe the actual mortality rate is closer to 0.5%, that the only reason it's higher is because of the number of confirmed cases or rather the number of unaccounted for cases.
400% to 500% is massively significant. 5% is considered statistically significant. I wonder if that's the reason why a lot of member discounts are a measly 5%.
@shiny1: I should clarify that that isn't how statistical significance works. While setting a critical statistical significance level at 5% is commonplace, it can actually be set to other values (10% and 1% being other common values). What you need to know is the p value associated with those measures of 400%-500% to know if those measures were statistically significant.
Links to the studies please.
Yes masks along don't stop coronavirus. But nothing does (except the vaccine). It's a combination of good hygiene practices such as washing hands, don't touch your face and reduce your chance of exposure (i.e. travelling or be in a confined space with others) and masks are good to have if you have them depending on your situation and where you are going.
If you are going to open space places like parks, there's literally no point of wearing masks. But if you are travelling on public transport or crowded places (like the aisle of toilet paper rolls in supermarkets :D), yes there's definitely a case to wear mask.
Surgical masks are good at capturing droplets, which is a main form of transmission of coronavirus. Yes it doesn't stop aerosols but it will reduce your chance of getting coronavirus. What's needed is good education on how to put on masks properly, and when do you throw them away properly.
Read the below for additional info.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/mar/21/can-face-mask-…
And like i said droplet protection stops working after 20 minutes, so unless you are replacing your surgical mask every 20 minutes, you are contributing to the hospital shortages and them being exposed and transmitting the virus in a hospital setting.
Sick of having to educate clueless people that just believe random news articles. You are actually making the situation worse having clinicians spread diseases in hospitals
Sick of having to educate clueless people
I'm also sick of people unable to have proper discussion without name calling. No I didn't believe anything I read from some random news article. Here's many others talking about the use of masks and their effectiveness:
From CHP of Hong Kong: https://www.chp.gov.hk/files/pdf/use_mask_properly.pdf
From Singapore: https://www.moh.gov.sg/covid-19/faqs
droplet protection stops working after 20 minutes
Where's the source? Personally I have never heard of this and I don't think hospital staff change their masks every 20 minutes. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong.
Speaking of shortages of masks in hospital, there was a news 2 weeks ago saying Australia has $100 million worth of medical stockpile, including 20 million masks. If there's any shortage of PPE, I believe these can also be requested through Department of Health. Personally I haven't seen any news saying there's shortage of masks and clinicians been exposed to virus as a result.
Welcome for any constructive feedback without the name calling. Cheers.
@THL: "Here's many others talking about the use of masks and their effectiveness:"
Nice linking some Chinese propaganda stuff.
"Where's the source? "
Both statements from AMA and ADA.
"Personally I have never heard of this and I don't think hospital staff change their masks every 20 minutes. Happy to be corrected if I'm wrong."
Well clearly you have zero link to any sort of healthcare system or ever worked near one. When stock aren't running low (because of people like you who doesn't understand things), you should see how often we change gloves and masks.
Not sure why you were down voted.
My neutropenic patient in hospital went without breakfast this morning because the catering staff couldn't find a mask to wear and go into their room, which nurses had to hide because visitors were stealing them!
They left the food outside the room for the nurses to deliver, which then had to be thrown away for infection control.
True story this morning!
Yep, I'm in healthcare myself and understand what's happening.
Frustrating when randoms on OZB are just completely uneducated and spreading information that's highly damaging to our hospital systems.
@[Deactivated]: So does that make you a doctor or researcher?
Are you yourself not a random on OZB?
Just because you work in healthcare doesn't make you an expert. I know of a hospital in the US where they are banning surgical masks for their staff. See idiots can work in healthcare too.
that's horrible. But also understandable. They are understaffed, under-resourced and stretched thin. We simply aren't prepared. This is a black swan. And we aren't even close to what Europe is facing right now. We have over 1000 reported cases of CV. Wait till we get to 40,000 like Italy.
@lostn: Not undesrtandable that people are stealing masks and hand sanitizers FROM hospitals, where they are needed the most. Sorry but this is stupidity and selfishness. And masster is right, (surgical) masks don't protect the people wearing if from the virus, why wear it, let alone steal it from an oncology ward in a hospital!!!
If you go to a supermarket and you dont wear gloves, a mask, and a face shield, you are just bringing the virus home to your family. If not today, then tomorrow..
False, if you clean your hands before hand, clean your hands after, and don't touch your face in the process you will bring nothing home. If you breath it in, it'll have to be because someone's just coughed it into the air
Do you not see how quickly the Virus can be stopped if there's a double barrier? If I'm sick I won't transmit. If he's sick, he won't transmit.
Best to wear a mask or an alternative such a motorcycle helmet or good quality stocking, particularly when you go to a bank. Lots of germs there.
Also carry a long bag too, or a guitar case. Works a treat.
We used a lot of our masks during the bushfires. We, Australia, do have a shortage. And every country in the world wants masks, it’s not easy to get more.
Hospitals do not have enough long term for frontline workers who are 100% certain they are around this or other dangerous viruses. I have been told this by three different nurses of two hospitals in Melbourne.
Oh, and those I have seen using masks are not using them properly. They’re touching them every minute, lifting them up to eat or drink, etc. We can’t trust people to use them properly. Why would we waste them when doctors and nurses don't have sufficient access to them.
Someone mentioned elsewhere the masks in the bushfires are different to the surgical masks we need now
I'm pretty sure the masks that were used in the bush fires filter better than surgical masks. The problem is most people have no experience wearing them and don't wear them properly. You need to make a proper seal.
yes and no. One of the main benefits of the masks for infected people is stopping the spittle when they speak or cough so they are less likely to spread the virus. Even a badly fitted mask will assist with this. It also prevents you from touching your mouth.
They are, but a lot of people don’t know that and used surgical ones.
The surgical masks supposedly do not do much to protect you from the virus. The best masks to have are N95 masks, and yes these were heavily purchased during the bushfires (and even when coronavirus did start to spread).
The surgical masks do a great deal to prevent you from spreading the virus.
@evuser: People aren't buying and wearing masks to prevent spreading the virus. If they are they should be at home in quarantine! They are buying them to protect themselves from the virus.
hahahaha the virus goes straight through the surgical ones.
The bushfire ones are n95 and even then those only last an hour or so of effective use.
Pointless having everyone wearing one.
Better just to be smart and let the nurses/doctors use them.
Difference between us and Asia is that most Aussies only wash their hands and practice hygiene when there is a pandemic going on.
Harsh truth.
So true. I've been mocked by friends and family in the past for washing my hands…
hahahaha the virus goes straight through the surgical ones.
Incorrect
I know a Brisbane nurse and their PPE situation is a joke. Lots of hospital workers are going to catch this thing.
However there is so much bullshit about the coronavirus and it was done to either not make the public worry or cover for a supply shortage.
The virus is airborne and while simple surgical masks aren't as effective as n95 gear they still offer significant more protection than nothing and are a tiny bit worse than n95. Even better still if you are an unknowing carrier you protect the community by making it harder for other people to catch.
With all these bloody rules and shutting down the economy they could just open up some factories pumping out these things 24x7 and make it mandatory for everyone to wear a mask.
It would cause a significant drop even without social distancing. Mix it with it and it would just about be eradicated.
not been able to find 30 million masks
Face masks are supposed to be single use and disposed afterwards. You're going to need a lot more than 30 million.
Dont have much else to add since I don't know anything about the supply.
I do agree that everyone should be wearing them for that added level of protection. But if there is a supply issue the face masks should be reserved for those on the frontlines.
Exactly.
Face Masks won't prevent infection either. But they can reduce transmission, as the amount of particles you're infected with is reduced making the barrier of infection higher. But more importantly, it causes a psychological change in that people start touching their eyes, nose, ears, and mouth less often. That seems to have a higher effect.
Although, even if we had enough masks for everyone, and spares as well. It doesn't make sense to wear it if you are "normal". Mask wearing has the biggest effect for those who are in close-contact with suspects (ie Doctors, Nurses, etc etc). And has the biggest effect on the sick, from reducing the expulsion though coughing.
If everyone stayed home without interacting with anyone, the virus would become extinct in 3 weeks. That's not a viable/possible solution. Neither is it viable to wait for vaccines (as that can take anywhere from 1-9 months). So the most practical solution is to "straighten the curve" by reducing the exponential spread of the virus, and making sure hospitals have plenty of supplies, personnel, resources. And we achieve this with social engineering, by restricting travel, increasing hygiene, and having some "social distancing". Unfortunately, the worst is yet to come, and it will likely take a full-year for at least our country to go back into normal mode (social and production). However, it is more important that this doesn't evolve into social breakdown where fights and thefts become rampant.
they advise u not to wear masks for 2 reasons.
most people dont know the rules of wearing them, like how to fit them on their faces properly, how long can u use them for, how to safely put them on and take it off, how not to contaminate them by touching your mask all the time etc. that mixed with the confidence it gives people to go out and live a normal life as long as they have a mask on is going to spread the virus alot more than if people are indoors locked in their houses, scared to go out because they dont have masks.
and the other reason is because there is a shortage and they dont want people buying up masks. taking them alway from medical workers.
that is it.
masks do work great if u know how to use them and have the right one. thats why all medical front line people have them on. thats what they are for. surgical masks are different from n95 masks. surgical masks would help not spread the virus if u are sick. but n95 masks are for both sick and not sick people. (dont give a sick person a valved one)
Good comments, but are you afraid that your shift key has the virus?
lol good one
Maybe the shift keys are socially distancing themselves from the rest of the keys. Very responsible.
Perhaps it's one of them fancy "Paradigm Shifts" everyone keeps going on a boot
Maybe it's been subject to a CAPS Lock out?
I reckon its got an ego, in line with username, and doesn't want to be pushed.
"Masks only work if you wear them properly"
Many people also don't wash their hands properly, but we don't tell them to not bother washing their hands - Something is better than nothing
I think in addition to shortages there's a cultural reluctance to going out wearing masks among Australians - I have been wearing my N99 mask with changeable filters that I bought for the bushires out and still hardly see anyone else wearing masks on the street in inner Melbourne
yes one of the reasons china and hong kong recovered so fast is because they have lived through alot of viruses and the population automatically put on masks and know the routine. something that Australia will learn the hard way.
what model mask do u own?
China has told its people to stop recording deaths.
They haven't flattened the curve, they haven't cure it, they aren't doing better than Italy.
They are in no way "recovered".
That's nuts.
I completely agree if there is a shortage, it needs to go to the people on the front line.
But also crazy there is a shortage in the first place. Would've assumed Australia would've some sort of plan for a pandemic and in that plan we would've stockpiled these masks
The countries that make most of them stopped exporting them in December to preserve stock for themselves….
I thought we had over $100 million of medical supplies, surely there's plenty of masks in there.
@BartholemewH: It was in the news a few weeks back
https://www1.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Cont…
The problem is that the rubber perishes over time, so the stockpile needs to be regularly replenished.
So do that. I'm sure there's normal non pandemic usage of these masks.
It must be the same with other things we need to stockpile. (Eg. Oil)
Sounds like there really wasn't any foresight here
@witsa: They do that, but when you're rotating stock of say 20 million masks you could reasonably use that up whereas if you're stockpiling 300 million masks you can't reasonably use that much.
Different story for oil, for one if you store it without oxygen that stuff can literally last thousands of years. Also there's way more uses for oil no just for petroleum, but construction, industrial and plastic manufacturers all consume oil.
Bottom line could they have stockpiled hundreds of millions of masks? Sure, would it make economical sense? No.
I feel like there are issues with communication here, though I don't have the expertise to know for sure.
They don't say "you don't need it" the recommendation feels more like "Don't wear one, it doesn't do anything", and I think the issue is people are sitting here saying wut? That doesn't make sense?!? Why do doctors need it then? Even if it doesn't do much, wouldn't any little bit help? Which just makes everyone not believe official sources, I can't count the number of people who told me they believe its bullshizzle.
I feel like the Australian people are down to earth types, and instead, they should just say "hay the masks help a little, but you're taking it away from doctors and nurses who legit need it more, unless you've got a compromised immune system please don't buy up all the stock". And it would probably go a much longer way in helping on the shortage.
I used to think 'the Australian people are down to earth types'. Looking at the empty shelves, where the toilet papers are supposed to go, I changed my mind. People are selfish, and it is true everywhere.
I'd wear a mask if I could find one! Funnily enough the only people I see wearing them when walking around the city are mainly of Asian descent….where are they getting them from?
They've probably always had them, more prepared. Before the pandemic who were the only people you ever seen wearing them?
Some pharmacy still had some, selling $3 each for 3 ply masks N95 $15@.
Would you willing to spend this much?
@Snooze I would be willing to pay for it but I have been looking for them for months but could find none. Which store have them, near Melbourne would be great thanks
I am located at Hornsby area in NSW.
Look on eBay, there are plenty. I have bought some for around $2 each and take 4 days to deliver from VIC.
Pm me and I can send you the listing I bought from
Ebay have sellers 50 surgical masks for $42
But extra gaskets about 100 pcs for $14 and extend the life of your mask. Use it for longer.
Both sellers are on ebay can send link
if they're chinese, they're used to wearing them back home anyway, so keeping stock around is not unusual for them. We aren't used to wearing them, so when everyone decides they want one, there aren't any around.
You need to change it several times a day for it to be effective.
It can last for 4-6 hours if you use it properly, so use when you get on and off public transport.
eBay sell $2 each.
They got in early when everyone else thought it was no big deal.
Still, a lot of people on here thought it was no big deal.
It is quite easy to and cheap to buy from China now. Many Chinese bought online and get them shipped to Australia. If the government place the order now, they should be able to have the masks in a week. Ps, we think we all should wear a mask since the supply is definitely enough now. At least the mask prevents the patient to spread the virus during the incubation period. Also, a lot of people saying you have to wear the mask properly and I totally agree. But how long to learn wearing it properly? Two minutes should be enough. I didn't know how to wear a mask properly until I saw a video recently.
Why shouldn't we adopt an Authoritarian regime? Their countries are booming and handling this better than us. Maybe democracy is the problem?
you don't need an authoritarian regime to contain a virus. Singapore, Taiwan and HK have done a very good job without such a regime. The key is they were prepared, not complacent. All 3 countries have single digit deaths and no more than a few hundred cases. Due to experience with past outbreaks, they were ready and knew what to do, acted early to prevent it from getting where we are. You can add Korea to the list of prepared countries even though they were hit with a serious outbreak. They do not have stock shortages in their supermarkets. Everything is full. And they didn't need to close every non-essential business. Their daily new cases number in the double digits.
Western countries on the other hand were not prepared. They recalled that recent outbreaks such as swine flu, mers, sars were confined to other countries, and the containment was the responsibility of those countries, not theirs. They just didn't fathom a world the virus would make its way into their borders and got complacent. When they saw only a handful of cases imported in, they assumed that was all they had, and as long as they monitored each one, the risk was low. It was spreading, they just didn't know about it because they weren't testing people. They didn't bother contact tracing or mass testing until it was too late. By the time they acted, the damage had already been done.
It's not their fault the virus exists in the first place, but they have known about its existence including internal cases for over 2 months now. They had time to prepare but underestimated the severity of the situation and didn't act in time. Thousands of cases didn't just appear overnight. The seed was there months ago and was not nipped in the bud before it could do the damage it has done.
Things will only continue to get worse from here on unfortunately. I predict this will hit us harder than the great depression.
I don't think you are comparing the same situation between these countries. When Wuhan was locked down, there were already hundreds of thousand people infected. However, when Singapore, Taiwan, HK and Korea started to control, only tens of people were infected. Also, almost all these countries encourage their people to wear masks and educate them how to wear it properly.
I believe CCP is handling this better than democratic countries for this situation, but I STILL prefer to have democracy.
You shouldn't wear them, because there are people needing them, who work in much higher risk professions trying to save the lives of ungrateful people like you.
Did you know the crappy masks you see people in other countries wear on TV, only work at maximum effectiveness for 20min, before being useless after 2 hours? I'm pretty sure a lot of them don't know that, and just use one mask for the whole day/week.
I think you should wear them, to stop spreading the virus or get infected, so the higher risk professions have more time to saver other lives.
Really?
So if there are 5 masks. 7 doctors in the emergency ward. And then there is 7 of you. Who should the masks go to? Particularly if the 7 of you don't know how to use it, can't stop touching your face, don't understand the basics of infection control (of no fault of your own. It is more than just washing hands)
Because that is what the situation is being boiled down to now. If there was enough masks for the medical profession, go for it. Wear them. But there isn't.
We are finding it next to impossible to find masks to treat patients. Do you know that we send staff out to pharmacies, groceries etc. to source masks?
The higher filtration masks are not even being handed out to certain medical staff anymore. Literally being locked away
The Nurses? You make a statement "We are finding it next to impossible to find masks to treat patients" so who are we? " Do you know that we send staff out to pharmacies, groceries etc. to source masks?" maybe time to change employers.
i'm pretty sure hospitals get their supplies delivered to them, instead of sending staff out to pharmacies to buy them. That would be a very expensive way to get supplies since their time is worth a lot more than $6 for a courier to deliver them.
It's probably because there isn't enough stock. Imagine how much panic there would be if the official advice was wear a mask and there's no stock. Panic buying would be nothing compared to the chaos not having masks would cause
They've already been hoarded. I only see a particular demographic wearing them in Sydney.
Until recently I only saw Chinese/Indian/subcontinent people wearing masks, but today I saw two Caucasian looking people wearing them too. More people will certainly wear them next month, if they can get stock. I wouldn't be surprised if there will be areas of our major cities where you're not allowed in public without one in June/July/August.
I'm not of Asian descent but have prepared.
I've seen Asians, Lebanese, White people all wear masks in Sydney.
Just an FYI for you and others, because there's a lot of shit being spread online because of people's personal prejudices. In times like these we need to be sensible and use our brains instead of believing everything and spreading shit.
If you're referring to Asians, it's because Asians have always had them. It's already embedded in their culture to wear masks in public, on public transport etc for hygiene reasons.
See many ethnicities wearing them recently but Asians the most common probably for reasons already discussed.
Highlight was a girl I saw yesterday who looked of European origin. Had colour co-ordinated a black mask with her outfit and looked amazing!
this ain't china. you're in australia.
our air is clean. learn the culture!
LOL. People wearing mask these days because of air quality? Have you been living under a rock over the past couple of weeks?
troll got to troll i suppose :P
Hah. Very fitting. Sage the Troll. Kinda rolls with the tongue..
What we should do is distribute non-surgical, non-P2/N95 masks for compulsory use outdoors. Then at least sick people won't be able to cough everywhere. Getting healthcare grade masks for everyone is impossible now.
Ebay is full of surgical masks and 2 days delivery time
overpriced
a reflection of supply and demand.
If anything, the prices you see for goods in grocery stores and pharmacies are underpriced because they could easily sell at a higher price.
sick people shouldn't even be outside in the first place
Comment posted on the other thread, on how to make DIY face masks from Hong Kong Shenzhen University.
If you believe having some mask is better than none, then this simple-to-make and cheap mask is a good balance, without contributing to the shortage crisis.
Came across reports that claimed even a scarf or bandana would help, but not sure how true that is.
Wearing a mask is for the sick person to not cough/sneeze which transmits the virus.
Wearing a mask if you're healthy is not recommended because the moisture you exhale can actually trap pathogens and give them a breeding ground, which you then breath in.
FYI
https://www.forbes.com/sites/tarahaelle/2020/02/29/no-you-do…
Wearing a mask if you're healthy is not recommended
What if you thought you were healthy, but is actually sick?
They're still fairly pointless unless you're coughing/sneezing in which case you shouldn't be out in public anyway because you are highly contagious with or without a mask.
A lot of people spit (unintentionally) when talking, I would assume that's also a common method of transmission?
@Ughhh: Agreed. I just said "Peter Piper picked a peck of pickled peppers" and my monitor is disgusting.
There are no masks available.
If you suspect you might be sick stay home.
Coronavirus is asymptomatic, Which was the whole point…
You mean people who think they are smart but actually dumb?
The virus is asymptomatic for a while, you could be that dumb person right now LOL
@netjock: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https:/…
Lol at you. I guess theres no reason to quarantine overseas people or at the borders
@Ughhh: LOL look at you. Not able to tell the difference.
Quarantine is a totally different matter.
Asymptomatic I searched through your document there is only two parts where "asymptomatic" is mentioned.
While the range of symptoms for the two viruses is similar, the fraction with severe disease appears to be different.
For COVID-19, data to date suggest that 80% of infections are mild or asymptomatic, 15% are severe infection,
requiring oxygen and 5% are critical infections, requiring ventilation. These fractions of severe and critical infection
would be higher than what is observed for influenza infection.
It is one OR the other. Some people just think it is nothing or something else doesn't mean it is asymptomatic.
You're an expert at unable to read.
Let's settle on the fact that people started wearing face masks a month ago which is way to early and if health care professionals who are suppose to look after you get infected and die. We're good as dead too.
@netjock: Lol at you. Please stay away from civilization. You sound like of those tweens who don't care about vulnerable people dying, just a wimpy flu alright.
@Ughhh: You mean the one where you call me dumb, where my response was about people who over think it?
Yes you have over thought about it. Just stop panicking. Not everyone is walking around asymptomatic. It is like jumping at your own shadow.
If you want to panic, panic around people from or returned from USA and Europe people. They are the biggest importer of COVID 19 now
You mean the one where you call me dumb,
I seeeeee, reading is not your strong suite.
The virus is asymptomatic for a while, you could be that dumb person right now LOL
There there. Stop overreacting . You also called thousands and thousands of people dumb, doubt theyre crying over it though atm.
I understand the recommendation.
However this virus is believed to be spreading way before the person is shown any symptoms so I do think if we have enough mask (which we don't) then we should be wearing it. Wonder if the cotton mask is any good :-/
Sadly I have to agree. It'd be a utopia if only sick people wore N95 type masks to prevent spreading their sickness, but as you said people could simply be asymptomatic yet carry the virus.
If by "cotton mask" you mean the surgical masks, I don't think they're very effective at all.
It might stop you from catching it when you are touching other surfaces and accidently scratching your itchy nose. (Everyone's seen that video of the health official in the US who licked her finger before touching the page to help lubricate it before turning to another page, if she had a mask she might be safer; any mask)
Furthermore, droplets from people sneezing are much larger than your ordinary PM 2.5 particles and will be caught in the cotton mask.
Most masks are to be used only once.
SO if you go out every day, that's 7 day a week you will need 7 masks. Each mask costs min $5.. that's $35
Think what if you will need one every day for 3 months..
Can just pay for it with a toilet roll a week ago.
Did you see frontline doctor!!!! Who don’t wear mask n protective gear
Some idiots bought most of the masks and re sell them for a high price. This including toilets roll 😡
They won't be effective unless people follow the proper protocol for using them i.e don't touch the face unless you have washed your hands.
Every single person that I have seen wearing a mask so far did not use hand sanitiser or wash their hands before removing or adjusting the mask they are wearing.
Can't buy for a reasonable price plus makes my anxiety worse knowing people are staring at me.
What is reasonable price at the moment?
Supply vs demand. Supply shortage plus weak AUD, we will be hit hard when purchasing them.
Weak AUD is good for the country… go to school.
$15 for 3 masks. I can't afford it
eBay selling $10 for 5 masks 3ply
that's a day's supply if you're using them correctly.
One can always make them, there are ‘patterns’ and instructions available online. But, I will not be bothering myself. I have understood for a long time, that face masks normally only work to limit the transfer things from the infected and that that effect is fairly limited. Properly designed and fitted surgical masks and face shields worn by medical people are different; they do help lower the risk of infection for those amazing individuals (who are all absolute heroes and angels). I have long inwardly laughed at anyone wearing a face mask on the streets of Australia. I suspect they may even do harm occasionally by giving the wearer a false sense of security. PS Have had some heated debates on this one with some friends recently, largely female seniors who are otherwise intelligent and well informed. They is a widely held belief that masks do help. Me? I’m practising social distancing, washing my hands vigorously and often with soap and water (not that hard to do) and trying to not touch my face with my hands (hard). All the best everyone, in these unusual times.
How do you know that China supplied masks to all 1+ Billion of its residents? Everyone seems to assume that they did, but you can’t be sure of that going by the media coverage alone.
Anyway, the hospitals are being very careful with mask allocation due to stock levels and if anyone really needs them, it’s the hospital staff. Most masks are single use and the cheapies are only effective for 30 minutes anyway.
I originally came from Eastern China n government in my city sales mask for $0.5 a mask up to three masks a day but one not every one but not everyone can get, each day who get mask depending on there id number
china has been donating millions of them (and hazmat suits and other medical supplies) to other countries daily. They are manufacturing them in full force.
China has been supplying them NOT donating them as they make it out for you to believe. Typical CCP propaganda.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/under-fire-over-coronav…
Jack ma is donating them. FYI wapo is as biased as most other western media
Just flew in from Amsterdam where cafes and restaurants etc were closed and the airport security did a very close and personal thorough body frisk without even wearing a mask!!! I checked with his supervisor and she said it was ok! I think that was just as bad as me landing in Sydney eventually and being told to home isolate for 14 days and then let loose in the airport and mingle in queues and cafes facing cancellations and delays as I flew from Sydney to Melbourne and eventually Tasmania - 12hrs later - where I went into isolation. I tried to steer clear of people the entire way, but obviously touched and breathed on lots of surfaces. I noted the Australian public is still very blassez about social distancing. One foreign woman with child was hysterical on one flight because aircrew and everyone seemed to be continuously crowding her and she was scared the crew would pass the virus to her or/and child! Even the supervisor stood too close to her trying to comfort her as she was yelling through tears for the supervisor to keep a distance and leave her in peace.
I think masks wouldn't hurt!! Not sure why we aren't wearing them just to prevent spit and droplets coming from our mouths, never mind the mask not being the right grade!
Because if anyone here wearing mask will get discrimination due to prejudice still exists in this pandemic that only sick people wear mask.
what would being prejudiced entail, people keeping their distance? mask-wearers would likely consider that.. a win?
I don't think people get shifty around mask-wearers, but they'd they get shifty around people that look sick or are coughing/sneezing etc..
@pilchard: The retardation…
Hey! I think you have that virus, everyone's freaking out over! I'm gonna punch you in the face! Get all close and rough ya up a bit!
Oof
I gave the people, too much credit
We should be, but there is a shortage.
Hospitals are running short. TV shows are donating their supplies so that surgeries can go ahead
All masks are made in China.
3M P2/N95 masks are made in the USA, but the catch is the components are locally and internationally sourced. That's a weasel statement for saying crucial parts are sourced from elsewhere (probably China) and the product can't be assembled without it.
Outsourcing crucial health and safety equipment to one supplier that could on a dime turn around and become your enemy is dumb. But hey, it's cheap, and that's all that counts right?
there's a cost for everything. The job of government is to manage risks and find the best compromise. Being extremely risk averse may prepare you for a black swan event like this but it will come at a great cost when there is no such event. Finding the optimum balance is what a good government does.
You could manufacture everything locally on US wages, if you don't mind that everything will cost a lot more money and that everyone will be poorer as a direct result. And your goods won't be competitive against imported goods that were made cheaper somewhere else. Which then leads to your manufacturing going out of business because people are buying the imported stuff instead. And we are back to where we are now: countries with cheap labor do the bulk of the manufacturing of low value goods.
This is what capitalism does.
We should not buy anything that made in China. We don't support communist regimes therefore we rather die then wear a mask. How stupid do I sound.
Haven't you heard the catch cry "better be dead than red!". But then it seems like now people think it is "better dead than read!"
It's pretty bizarre that the government tell people not to wear masks because of shortage and "not using them correctly"…
These are just excuses - they should have increased the supply by producing more (like the situation with TP) and educated the public on proper ways to wear masks instead. But I guess that's too much to expect from our government hey?
Not really - the government is looking at it from a whole societal level, not an individual level. For society, especially with expected shortages, the best use of masks is for front line personnel who need them and know how to use them effectively, than the common person who doesn't.
And front line personnel using them correctly can mean up to a dozen per shift per person, so shortages are no joke.
There is expected shortages because we have a silly government without any foresight.
They could as easily just get EBay/Amazon/Gumtree to ban selling of masks. With no way to on sell the masks for a profit, there is no motivation to buy them.
Making more locally would also help.
Facebook marketplace? Via chat apps? Etc. You can't blanket ban private transactions, because then you're 1. Going to cause more of a panic and even more panic buying by people just hoarding them, and 2. Giving shops and businesses an arbitrary advantage because they're also private sellers.
These are just excuses - they should have increased the supply by producing more (like the situation with TP)
TP is actually in plentiful supply. The warehouses are brimming with it. All three major manufacturers ramped up their production to 24/7.
The problem is the distribution is being bottlenecked by lack of trucks.
Watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iS0yzVCSZOw
There are hopsitals with surgeons that are having to re-use masks because of a shortage.
Stocking up on masks and using them when it's not needed is making healthcare system worse
The anger for the shortfalls should be directed at the government not on people being irrational trying to protect themselves.
There should be no need to choose (health care or regular people) as the state and federal government should have provided for them.
So the government should have face mask factories sitting idle, just waiting for a 1 in 100 year event, to ramp up production, probably in the order of 10x - 100x?
They should also have:
hand sanitiser factories
soap factories
ventilator factories
hospital bed factories
hospitals to put the beds in
toilet paper factories
ready to go aswell
No, but they could build one in one month. Or mandate or give incentives to private sector to do it.
They just lack of foresight.
but they could build one in one month.
Lol they what now? And the supply chain and equipment and staff you'd need to actually get production out of these factories?
The real world isn't a video game where you throw arbitrary resources at something and your desired output just pops out.
FFS.
@leiiv: ROFL, we aren't China.
Building a building takes many months. First you have to find a spot, which might involve acquiring someone else's property. That takes time also. Then there's the planning stage, the blueprints and design. Then you need permits and approval from the council. Then you have to deliberate this either at council level or parliament level. This stage alone can take years! Then actual construction will take months. Then there's a bunch of inspections and compliance to do. It needs to be signed off by a number of bodies. All of this is regulated.
There's so much bureaucracy and red tape that goes on that constructing a building on short notice just isn't possible.
China can skip all the bureaucracy and build a hospital entirely in 10 days because their government doesn't need to debate with anyone or vote on things. There's no opposition party, and the citizens don't get a say. This is one advantage of such a government.
At the drop of a hat, they can lock down 700 million citizens.
We cannot do that. Very few countries can.
@lostn: All of that is just one big fat excuse. Everything can be made possible when there is determination, as history proven.
All countries have laws than can allow the government to do whatever it takes in the interest of national security. Even if the law is less draconian, you can do it with money.
Even a private enterprise can make a mask factory in 11 days:
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/printing-money-b…
Is it that unthinkable? That's how the military operates. Soldiers trained, employed and ready to move out at any moment. Nukes, tanks, jets, subs all maintained and ready to go. The only difference here is that the enemy is a virus and not an opposing nation.
Bill Gates already pointed out this in his TED talk. Michael Osterholm also gave similar feedback in Joe Rogan's podcast. And as the former put it, the cost of it all would still be a fraction of the military upkeep and less than the value destruction that has happened over the past few months.
@quanticism: The military has more functions than moving out, in fact their main funcion; in my oppinion is their existance is a deterrent.
If covid 19 was reluctant to invade Australian shores due to the sound of the 10 care and maintenece mask factories firing up their production lines then yeah maybe it would be worthwhile.
@Mrgreenz: An enemy that invades with no regard for deterrents sounds like the bigger threat here. Is it "worthwhile" to have a measures for dealing with such an enemy? Should everything be BAU once things cool die and we wait for a more deadly virus to be cooked up by Mother Nature?
@Mrgreenz: No need to have them sitting idle. Apparently, they can be made in 11 days..
https://www.straitstimes.com/asia/east-asia/printing-money-b…
there's no anger from me. I'm just saying public education about masks is needed because surgeons are going without whereas you get these teenagers buying up all the masks, stealing them, selling them to other unsuspecting citizens who don't enve need them
Whenever I see people wearing masks I think to myself "how kind, they don't want me to get their germs". They are less effective if you are healthy and may even lead to making you sick should you wear one.
"Don't wear masks - they don't protect you anyway"…. Meanwhile paramedics, police, doctors…. All wearing masks.
But they do protect others from you if you are infectious but not showing symptoms. Which is what the gov cannot understand.
No they don't if you don't know how to use it. You touch the outside of the mask with your hand while adjusting the mask? Your fingers are now contaminated.
These are people on the front lines dealing with people with all sorts of sicknesses, not just coronavirus. A surgeon isn't going to want blood splashed onto their face are they?
u think the government and healthcare workers are all scrambling for masks because they just dont "want blood splashed onto their face"??…
well u could save the governments billions if u just went out and told them that all they need are the face shields they already have! blow their minds.
https://imgur.com/a/EvgDhid
Difference between wearing mask and not wearing.
Those Asian countries had faced to SARS in 2003, they all have experience to deal with this virus(SARS and COVID-19 are the same type of virus ) thus the Australian health Department has no cue and experience how to prevent it. Wearing mask is the best way to prevent the virus. It does protect urself and others. If you are not wearing masks, australia will become the second Italy
I have to say that there is actually many more factors to that chart than "these countries wore masks look what happened", as per this article.
Whilst masks likely did help, there were many other factors to the success of these countries against SARS-CoV-2. Their experience with SARS helped them greatly. Australia claims to follow along with the policies these countries have instigated but we've done it at a much later time, because frankly we are a backwards lazy country whose culture is ingrained with the "she'll be right mate" mentality.
During World War 2 the USA managed to go from producing cars to tens of thousands of tanks and bombers within a couple of years, apart from all the other material suddenly required for war.
We're all in a war against a virus right now, so surely producing some three layer plastic fiber masks in Australia is far simpler than designing and building new bombers. Unless we have outsourced virtually all manufacturing and cannot figure out how to make basic products ourselves it should be possible.
I mean, what's next? Producing Australian military uniforms in China just because it's cheap?
https://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-09-12/xenophon-slams-decisi…
Oh dear…
Exactly, two things need to be produced with utmost priority: test kits and masks
Australian flags, stuffed kangaroos and all the merchandise being sold leading up to Australia Day every January, all have MADE IN CHINA written on them.
Our economy is made in China
Even ignoring the supply issue, there is a strange hatred for wearing masks in Australia.
I have a stash of masks I brought back from Korea and have been wearing them when I go out. Every single time I have heard snide passing comments from people. Comments such as "masks are useless, you look like an idiot", "look at this clown", "why don't you just bloody stay home". I've also had multiple instances when I've been told to take off my mask because it was making people feel uncomfortable.
It's really mind boggling, especially coming from Korea where the mind set is the complete opposite and anyone not wearing a masks is ridiculed.
In Korea, there is 8000 people infected compared to Australia's 1100.
But also I think the sentiment comes from: Australians not using masks regularly when sick and anyone wearing masks is perceived as sick.
Orrrr, take Taiwan for example. Had the first case before Australia did. Similar population to Australia, but over 200* the population density. Everyone wears masks even before COVID19 hit. They have 169 cases and Australia has over 1000.
Taiwan learnt from SARS
Australia on the other hand has no idea wtf they're doing
Welcome to Australia.
I've also had multiple instances when I've been told to take off my mask because it was making people feel uncomfortable.
Just tell them you've caught a bit of a cold and don't want to spread it, but doctor says it's nothing serious.
Because the Australian govt saids so and ozBargains likes to save money.
I've been wearing masks on public transports since Mid Jan. Good luck fellas, have fun on the beaches.
I bought a few packs of safety masks from Aldi a long time ago. it was marked down as no one was interested. Kept it in the storage. The wife was complaining then, saying I'm collecting rubbish. how the times have changed…
I have been wearing the mask since early Feb. I wear a face shield over it for aesthetics.
I don't get the logic around people telling the public not to wear a mask. Maybe I'm not smart enough to understand.
What does the face shield look like?
its a like a face covering, similar to a balaclava made from fabric. I wear them when I ride. google fishing face shield or motorcycle face shield. I wear an actual mask underneath. this is so I can reuse the protective mask.
@leiiv: haha that looks extreme. my one is just a fabric one
https://www.discountfishingsupplies.co.nz/shop/Face+Shields/…
yi=ou can get these from Amazon Au or eBay for cheaper.
these are not meant to be protective masks for covid. I just wear them to hide the protective mask underneath. Also, it looks intimidating and people move away from me.
u just wear a simple surgical mask under that or are they full 3m n95 masks? how much more harder is it to breathe with that and the mask on?
@ego22: the full 3m mask. It is bit hard to breathe especially if I climb stairs. it can become hot under the mask too.
My sister gave me an old box of 100 masks to borrow as needed. The price tag on the box said $2.50.
Simple answer is we don't have enough masks for all Australian. So they need to allocate masks to people fighting in the frontline. Hope everyone stay safe.
Ask Scomo where are the masks if not, we take matter into our own hands. Buy them from China ourselves since the authorities unable to get them.then donate to the hospitals or we have to start manufacturing them here…..
3 months late…
What is the correct way to wear and dispose of masks?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lrvFrH_npQI
Medical Respirators N95 Fitting Instructions 3M Health Care
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05wyH1-mLGk
the psychology and mindset of wearing the mask is interesting
as we are getting more serious, i think it will set in for some people that this is not a dream…
mute point though, we cant even get toilet paper let along medical grade masks..
I'm Chinese studying in Sydney and I've been following this whole mask thing very carefully, below are my two cents on this topic though to be sure I'm no doctor or epidemiologist so do know that at the back of your mind when reading.
Masks do help. In fact they help enormously to prevent a healthy person from getting infected by a sick patient with COVID-19. This is why doctors and nurses need one, and it's best to be N95 respirator kind. Think about this, if masks are useless, why waste money & resources in equipping doctors and nurses with them?
COVID-19 can spread by asymptomatic carriers. This means a person might not have any symptoms but he/she is already infected by the virus and is able to pass it on to you or any healthy person. This is why it's not enough to just let the sick wear masks to protect the healthy — because one can look and feel perfectly healthy and still pass on the virus. This is in a way similar to how AIDS spread. You wouldn't know if someone has HIV or not, so it's always good practice to have protected sex.
Asian countries do not have the widespread social stigma against wearing masks. In fact, in Japan there's a culture for wearing masks during Spring due to their common allergy for flower seeds. Also, East Asian countries are the industrial and manufacturing powerhouses of the world. China was on Chinese New Year break when the outbreak started in China but factory workers were quickly summoned back and production ramped up. China is now able to produce 100 million masks per day. Japan did the same thing and was able to produce the same amount in a week. Taiwan was able to produce 10 million per day.
This is why doctors and nurses need one, and it's best to be N95 respirator kind. Think about this, if masks are useless, why waste money & resources in equipping doctors and nurses with them?
Because they work in a place full of sick people with a range of illnesses, not just coronavirus? Even dentists wear them, and they're not dealing with sick patients. You don't want liquids splashing onto your face.
They type of mask dentists wear and those who fight COVID-19 are different. N95 respirators masks are needed for coronavirus, because it is able to spread through aerolised droplets, i.e. when you cough or sneeze or just heavy breathing.
https://www.health.gov.au/news/health-alerts/novel-coronavir…
You need masks to prevent those droplets from getting into your nose, mouth, etc.
Well I agree. But we are talking about any old masks here. The surgical masks are next to useless is the advice I've heard from doctors in my family, and health professionals on TV.
The N95 masks are simply not affordable or available in the quantities desired.
@lostn: This is also not true, I'm afraid. Any mask will be better than no mask. Although technically speaking you'll be best equipped with a N95, plain surgical masks are much better than nothing. Hence why you see doctors and nurses wearing them on TV, because they literally don't have N95s to put on. Also, the American CDC suggested reusing masks or even use bandanas and scarfs when running out of masks.
https://edition.cnn.com/2020/03/19/health/hospital-coronavir…
The idea is, it's important to cover your mouth and nose to stop the spread of the virus. N95s are the best, surgical masks will do the job too, if there's nothing, a scarf is better than not wearing anything. That's the message.
Wearing masks could help a bit, but there are two main issues:
If masks actually can solve Covid-19, do you think China needs to lock down? Why do you think medical team working on patients infected by Covid-19 needs to be fully protected.
We know masks alone don't work. The cruise ship, Diamond Princesses, people were wearing masks (but they eat without mask on) and they had no idea who were infected.
Would you go into a room with a Covid-19 patient if we give you a N95 or N99 mask? If the answer is no, then mask is obviously not the solution.
i lived in china and hong kong.
today is day 6 wearing mask in public australia.
i never imagined this would happen here
because boomers said so according to their infinite wisdom this is just a flu
So there are various views on this from different governments and authorities around the world and the media throws in their 2 cents too…. But the final say will be with the ozbargain community 😁😁
I bought masks from Daiso in Japan in 2014… not P2 or N95, but for my peace of mind (dont care what others think) i am wearing one when in public places.
As a citizen or not, everyone has the right either proactive or reactive (just dont regret if it is too late) against the Covid19.
People wearing masks will tell you every bit helps. Even if it is 10%, 20% or 50% better protection (as some mask wearers are claiming), it is better than nothing.
People not wearing masks are going to point out, you need to worry about your hands and other hygiene more than wearing mask and the Diamond Princess cruise passengers were wearing masks (so whatever that extra % you think they had, it didn't work out too well). Furthermore, you cannot eat or drink with the mask on. Avoid going to areas with lots of people is more important than wearing masks.
Sure, you can wear masks to reduce the risk, but don't cut corners on other things you need to do. Medical staff need more than just masks (and we are talking about N95 and/or N99 masks).
Mask production here: materials cost too much, equipment cost, wages etc… By the time the company here is ready to make production, someone would be able to import loads from China and sell at dirt cheap price - then that AU company will go bankrupt. Some people will bulk buy masks here and most people probably won't be able to get any. Our government has no infrastructure in place to restrict each person to buy fixed number of goods. Yes, we might be technically a developed country, but in many way, we are under-developed.
If you have Asian friends or relatives and they can get you masks cheap, sure wear them. However, don't entice people here to wear masks and scare them. Leave the masks to medical people (yes, Australia do have masks and medical staff have access to them). There are other things we can do. Masks alone cannot extinguish Covid-19.
A lot of people in service industries don't have jobs due to Covid-19, I don't think it is wise to ask why people aren't wearing masks here now.
I agree, I think on this basis too. I only have some basic surgical masks but the way I see it, any % reduction in risk I'd take it. Point with the gloves and eyes are taken too so I've been using disposable food prep gloves, sprayed down with dettol frequently (since I had that already and hand sanitiser is out of stock) and my old chemistry class eye goggles. I look absurd but hey, my office is still working and the boss next to me has lung cancer.
Not going out is still my preferred option but if I absolutely must go out to get groceries I'm doing everything I can to lower the risk
About time we talk about the obvious issue. Personally I believe the advice shouldn't be 'Do not wear a mask if you are well'. Because, the incubation period of coronavirus is up to 14 days and there are many confirmed cases of asymptomatic carriers.
Below is WHO's advice: 'If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.' The problem is, how do you know if anyone near you has been infected? You don't. Anyone coughing on the Public Transport or in the lift could have coronavirus. You never know.
I can understand the intention to reduce the hoarding and leave these masks to the people who best need them - medical professionals and people who are sick. But if you are able to buy them somewhere else (i.e. from overseas), why not wear them? Many countries have government controls the supply of masks and distribute them evenly to all their citizens to prevent people bulk buy.
And the argument of 'Oh because most people don't know how to wear masks properly and therefore it's useless'. Then why don't we teach them how to use it? The same goes with washing hands. Do we tell people not to wash hands because people don't know how to wash them properly? We do the opposite. We tell them step by step how to wash hands thoroughly.
Most of the Asian countries are encouraging their citizens to wear masks if they can. Yes it doesn't completely prevent you from getting the virus, but nothing does. It's a combination of good hygiene practice, avoid crowded area and wear proper PPE to effectively reduce your chance of getting coronavirus.
The mindset here of 'Don't wear masks unless you are sick!', is purely mind boggling for me and I believe this will make a significant impact on Australia's effort to combat coronavirus.
Rant over.
First of all, wash your hands does help. It's different to wearing a mask.
The problem with wearing a mask is that it doesn't eliminate the problem as it only covers parts of your face. Doctors have pointed out your eyes have a high risk of getting the Covid-19 virus into the body too. So what now? protective eye gear should be worn too? How about your clothes could have virus stuck on?
All these "we should wear masks" forgot to point out the other bits. In Wuhan, when people have to go out and collect food, they wear masks and a lot of them also wear protective eye gears. Then, as soon as they return to the house, they disinfect clothes, shoes with alcohol based solution. Next, they go and have a shower and change clothes. All the masks wearers here, are you doing all that?
That's why doctors are not dumb enough to go crazy and recommend everyone to wear masks. Trust me, no doctor is dumb enough to attend a patient who has Covid-19 with just a N99 or P99 mask. If you truly believe 99% of Covid-19 virus will only target your nose and mouth, then sure wear masks like crazy.
Yeah great points except: If masks don't help, why do medical professionals need them when taking care of patients? According to your logic, masks are useless because there are many other ways of getting infected (i.e. eyes) so you don't need them.
If you truly believe 99% of Covid-19 virus will only target your nose and mouth, then sure wear masks like crazy.
Read carefully what I said. I said masks can help reduce the chance of infection (because it is good at catching droplets), which is the main form of transmission of coronavirus (sneezing or spit). It also helps you stop touching your face because of the physical barrier. Nothing can prevent coronavirus, except vaccine.
The only logical reason to tell people not to wear masks is because of supply issue. Nothing else. In an ideal world if we have unlimited supply of masks, everyone should wear a mask.
But if people want to buy reasonable quantity of masks and use them sensibly, why should people wearing masks get criticised for wearing them? I have masks that I bought from overseas and wear them when I go into confined/crowded places like lifts or PT. Why should I be starred at like I'm a sick patient and get told off?
Stop rubbing it in.
But if people want to buy reasonable quantity of masks and use them sensibly, why should people wearing masks get criticised for wearing them? I have masks that I bought from overseas and wear them when I go into confined/crowded places like lifts or PT. Why should I be starred at like I'm a sick patient and get told off?
Because what you failed to realise is that you are showing off. It basically has "I have a way to get cheap masks and you don't" written all over your face. Then, some of you guys go on and ask people: why aren't you wearing a mask? Aren't you afraid?
If you were far too proud because you have a mask on without actually use your brain properly, you really are putting yourself in danger. A lot of people are having it tough here, if you don't try to at least "pretend" to show some compassion, then your education was wasted.
Are you willing to sell your masks at cost to people willing to wear them? If not, it is wise to shut up.
The reality is we understand you guys are more scared and some people are just more lucky than others (life is unfair after all) and we have more important things to worry about. If we cannot get masks and we don't want dodgy retailers to rip us off, we simply move on and have other measures. No mask doesn't mean we have to cry or scare ourselves to death.
Also, far too many mask wearers over-hype the usefulness of the mask. Like I pointed out, it didn't help people on that Diamond Princess cruise ship.
Why should I be starred at like I'm a sick patient and get told off?
You don't know why? Easy, google. I am not going to bother with this one.
@netsurfer: Wow this discussion has turned sour very quickly. It went from 'masks are useless' to 'stop rubbing it in for people who can't get them'. I'm purely talking about the effectiveness of masks and the official advice from Australian Government. Never did I say people who don't wear masks should be questioned, but the other way around. It's funny how you don't respond to my facts anymore but now attacking my character.
A lot of people are having it tough here, if you don't try to at least "pretend" to show some compassion, then your education was wasted.
I never had a go at anyone. It's a tough time for everyone but please don't make me the villan for something I never did or say. People who hoard/bulk buy masks and sell them at ridiculous price should be penalised and those are the real villans.
I'm upset because I got told off just because I wear masks, something I do to protect myself which millions of other people also do across the globe in this coronavirus pandemic.
You need to realise this is Australia. People think you are sick when you are wearing a mask. After all, as per WHO recommendation, you would wear a mask when you are sick.
It's the same in the hospital here. If a medical staff has any reason to suspect you have Covid-19 and you don't have a mask on, the staff will immediately put one on you (to prevent you from spreading). That's the default mentality here. You put a mask on to prevent infecting others.
That's the thing that is hard for some of you to get. The default motive here to put on a mask is to protect others, whereas your default motive is to protect yourself.
And, you guys constantly asking why why why…. Basically, we "assume" you put on a mask to prevent infecting others… Then, we immediately feel: why don't you stay at home? Why come to school or office?
Below is WHO's advice: 'If you are healthy, you only need to wear a mask if you are taking care of a person with suspected 2019-nCoV infection.' The problem is, how do you know if anyone near you has been infected? You don't. Anyone coughing on the Public Transport or in the lift could have coronavirus. You never know.
If you're caughing, then you're not asymptomatic. If you're sneezing, then have the decency to sneeze into your elbow.
And the argument of 'Oh because most people don't know how to wear masks properly and therefore it's useless'. Then why don't we teach them how to use it?
We do. We also tell people how to socially distance to prevent infection, but do they listen? No, they go to beaches en masse instead. Telling someone how to do something is only effective if it can be enforced, and let's be honest. It can't be. Even if you are ordered to self quarantine for 14 days, there is no way this can be policed. When people see you in public, no one knows if you are under quarantine or not. "I'll just nick down to the corner store for a couple minutes, no harm done."
Most of the Asian countries are encouraging their citizens to wear masks if they can. Yes it doesn't completely prevent you from getting the virus, but nothing does. It's a combination of good hygiene practice, avoid crowded area and wear proper PPE to effectively reduce your chance of getting coronavirus.
They have long had a culture of wearing these, even before CV. Especially in places with high pollution such as China where the air is smoggy.
The mindset here of 'Don't wear masks unless you are sick!', is purely mind boggling for me and I believe this will make a significant impact on Australia's effort to combat coronavirus.
I've yet to see a peer reviewed scientific study of the efficacy of these masks against CV to answer this one way or another. Telling people not to use them in order to preserve stock for doctors is partially true, but the idea that the worlds governments are colluding to lie to their citizens about their effectiveness in order to achieve this goal is beyond belief. The world is simply not capable of cooperating so unanimously.
There are however known risks involved with using them incorrectly, and you just can't trust that people will use them correctly even if taught how to. If you don't replace them regularly, they get moist and that moisture makes it a breeding ground for bacteria and viruses which is a bad thing. You have to avoid touching it or reusing it. Know how to take it off without touching the mask, and always wash your hands before putting one on, and after taking it off. Can you trust people to follow those guidelines? You can't even trust them to distance themselves from each other when ordered to.
That's some really good points. Thanks.
the idea that the worlds governments are colluding to lie to their citizens about their effectiveness in order to achieve this goal is beyond belief.
Cannot agree more to this. If they just be honest and tell everyone the real reason, I wouldn't have an issue with it. But to make it sound like wearing masks can be bad for you is truly shocking.
In the meantime, you've got other countries like Singapore and Taiwan, where governments immediately take controls of the supply of masks to make sure no bulk buy by any individuals, distribute them evenly across citizens and also reserve a sufficient amount for their frontline medical personnel.
Supply of masks and the effectiveness of masks should be two completely separate discussions.
The Who is big pharma controlled - which means yank.
yanks don't care about yanks - and everyone else is second, which means non-existent.
yank style government is here - its not for the people -it about feeding America - and the yanks now control well over half the planet. They print technically worthless money because well over half the planet is instructed to buy it.
We the sheeple of Australia have given away our autonomy, have given away our economic future, and will not protect our country from climate change or our population from pandemics - its not the AMERICAN WAY. You don't want to believe it, you won't accept it, buts that's the reality of everyones lives now - for many that will soon end - and they are mostly non-productive so its a cull of sorts - permitted by our masters.
At this point of time, peer reviewed evidence specific to CV is probably out of the question as we are less than 3 months from the initial outbreak. Having said that, other clinical evidence around respiratory infections can be valuable due to the similar transmission vectors utilised by CV and other viral respiratory infections such as influenza.
Current evidence from an Australian study is that masks can prevent 60-80% of influenza infections in a home setting if used routinely. This means masks could be a useful tool in fighting viral outbreaks like the CV. Full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/
There is also other scientific evidence showing that wearing a surgical mask does provide some level of protection against respiratory infections.
Case in point, Uchida et al (2016) suggested that "wearing of masks were effective in infection control." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551…
Systematic review conducted by Barasheed et al (2016) suggests that "Facemask use seems to be beneficial against certain respiratory infections at MGs (mass gatherings)". https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(16)31010-4/fulltext
While it might not be able to provide the same level of protection as a P2 / N95 respirator, surgical masks themselves appeared to be able to provide at least some protection to their wearers. In fact, research conducted by Radonovich et al. (2019) indicates that "Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31479137
You may also want to look at some other evidence provided by Siddharth Sridhar, who is a Clinical Assistant Professor at The University of Hong Kong here - https://www.facebook.com/siddharth.sridhar.5/posts/101583870…
Encouraging people who are displaying symptoms to wear masks and enabling asymptomatic population to wear masks in public / mass gatherings should not be mutually exclusive.
Argument that the general public are not able to don/doff masks properly or won't don a mask even when recommended should not be a reason for providing this recommendation either - a lot of people don't wash their hands properly, some of them don't even wash their hands, but we don't stop people from washing their hands, do we?
Furthermore, the current advice appeared to be triggering unnecessary hatred towards those who choose to do so to protect themselves or others - case in point: https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-03-20/coronavirus-hong-kong…
Sure, show a place where I can buy a suitable mask at a normal price, and people will most likely start using them.
At $15+ per mask if you can find them, most won't bother.
Exactly, those people think they are so smart, doing the "right thing". They fail to realise they are actually insulting people and showing off.
They most annoying thing is they keep trying to convince you how wrong your are and you are putting yourself in grave danger. They really rub it in.
Ask each one of those mask wearers to pay $15+ per day for wearing a mask, see how they will feel.
The masks cost less than 80 cents each if you buy from China and shipped here. I am curious why our government has not placed order yet. The cost will be lower if the government bulk buy them.
Who knows if the mask are any good or if certification to standards is even real. You couldn’t risk the health of individuals with mask of uncertain standards.
The reason why I know this is because a friend has reached a mask supplier for hospital and they have sent their certificates over for review. However, the minimum quantity is 100,000 for bulk price.
@qiaoer: The problem is those certificates could be fake. It’s not unheard of suppliers sending certificates that aren’t genuine or for different products to the one being sent.
I see those suppliers on Alibaba. 100k masks for $90k, claiming to be KN95/N95/P2 with certificates.
@gamemaster: Yes, I know the certificates could be fake. This supplier is referenced by a doctor in China. Also as I stated above they provide surgical masks to hospitals. Last, you can check the certificate against Chinese authorities to verify.
Masks were also in short in China a few weeks ago. But now they have the virus in control and masks are everywhere.
Keeping hands away from the face is key. People LOVE to adjust their mask. It gets itchy, it gets damp, it feels awful. Touch, touch, touch, touch. On balance, it becomes easier to just tell people "don't wear them" because keeping the hands away from the face is more important.
Strictly speaking, if you are using them correctly, a mask is better than nothing.
But advice isn't targetted for the well trained professionals. It's to everyone else. For that reason, it is better to reccommend: "do not use masks."
The other reason we are told not to use them is simple rationing. Healhcare workers need them.
there's no gear in the system because our pathetic government didn't make or buy any back in January.
you mean they didn't spend excessive money on things that are needed once every 100 years and not needed any other time?
Why don't we also build 10 new toilet paper manufacturing plants churning out TP that we have no place to store just in case one day a pandemic causes people to stockpile them?
glad to see you support killing the old the disabled the sick and the poor, in fact any Australian you don't like because once in every 100 years the government needs to spend some money to stop it.
you probably wrote the same self serving I like my tax cuts fluff when the hellfires were raging, and ordinary people were dying.
and just how much is the same government giving business's who rort tax? tens of billions of tax payer dollars - and the old the sick the homeless and the disabled can just bloody die heh?
@lostn: what you changing your script?
have all of Australia's pollies been on holiday since last year?
didn't watch the news whilst putting out all those press releases?
wait till its 2 late and then state need hindsight - your optimism seems based on stupidity…
I supposed it worked for the captain of the titanic - oh no he had balls - he went down.
Unless the mask is the expensive N95 mask (even more expensive now that there are shortages), it won't keep out viruses.
N95 is difficult to breathe in and is not intended to be worn for more than a few hours. This will make it very expensive to maintain, if you can find stock at all.
from the status of these countries with mask wearing culture, they all looking not that bad, Korea, Japan, infected numbers are all under controls at least.
for those which saying masks are useless, getting worse.
No, that's not the main reason. The main reason is that those countries were/are able to do more tests and those countries got blacklisted much earlier, which means less people want to go there. They also employed lockdowns earlier.
Being able to detect as many carriers as early as possible is vital. If masks really is as magical as some of you claimed, then since those countries' people wear masks, there should have been 0 new case for weeks in those countries.
They still need to be very careful as all it takes is for an undetected super spreader to cause another wave of havoc. I'd rater keep quiet instead of jinxing them. I know at least one Asian countries recently started having more cases (due to citizens returning from overseas).
If it is such a big deal to you that most Aussies are not wearing masks, then go to Japan, Korea or whichever Asian country you believe has Covid-19 under control and have most, if not all people wearing masks.
That's a correlation, not a causation.
Those countries are doing better because they were prepared. They bore the brunt of SARS which hit them hard, and made sure they knew what to do in the event another outbreak occurs. Australia, Europe, USA.. these countries didn't have to deal with previous pandemics and weren't prepared. They assumed that if it happens again, it won't affect them, it will be contained by other countries, so they didn't have a plan prepared, and honestly didn't have any experience dealing with it.
I expect in future all western governments will come well prepared for the next pandemic.
you optimism is based on what?
zero prep for climate change deliberately.
now zero prep for pandemic known about 3 months ago…
1 terrible excuse provides no wiggle room for the shit about to occur.
and you want to give them a third chance - mate you must be linked or wearing blinkers…
you learn from past mistakes. We weren't prepared this time. Next time we will act quicker when it happens.
The reason China locked down the country as quickly as they did is because of their past experience with SARS where they took too long.
@lostn: Learnt nothing from the hellfires- zero prep- you need to sell the papple message better. Back to your agency
there's 2 reason's oz ain't got no gear.
in Jan scummo smarting from his Hawaii holiday farce was forced to spend some money belatedly fighting the expected hellfires because the situation was politically hot. Dead aussies did't count. He wasn't about to spend anymore.
The yank overlords steering this bunch of clowns told scummo and his evangelical headcases covid would be fine. No test kits needed etc, just like climate change - no action needed.
Look trump and his superrich mates are going to make a lot of money from this recession buying aussie assets, and you can just sit back and not worry about it. Just keep on allowing the far right to alter things to suit their control over this pathetic country.
We wholesale import from China. All food packaging items. Every one of our supplies has told us to wear masks and have also offered to send free N95 non-medical masks to us.
This is the exact wording from one of them:
1.Watch your body temperature!
2.Keep 2 meters away from stranger, and stay at home as much as possible!
3.Do a good job of disinfection and cleaning!
4.Be sure to wear a mask!!
The above four point are what we must do well in this period of time.
australians can't do that because there are no masks in the health system let alone outside it….
Well we can bring in 40ft containers of N95 within 4 weeks. China has no issue sending. I am unsure as to why bunnings would not buy this stuff?
presumably political orders…
if everyday australians had masks. they wouldn't wear them…
Did they actually have ! after every sentence?
copy and paste.
oh here come China saving the world from Chinese virus
If you are not born here and/or did not grow up in Australia, please understand:
There are two ways to look at one thing. Before you ask why Aussies assume a person wearing a mask is not sick, ask yourself this first: is assuming a person wearing a mask being healthy really a better alternative? You might be willing to assume an Asian wearing a mask probably isn't sick (which you are welcome to do so). Given the current situation, don't ask every Australian to do the same.
yeah let some smart racist with an agenda tell us bunch of thick aussies what we can say and do rather than explain
Why Australia didn't start making masks or buying them back in January 2020?
You can buy masks from feeBay if you want to. You want to play with percentage, you can. N95 and N99 masks, they are not that cheap and they are uncomfortable.
Why Australia didn't start making masks or buying them back in January 2020?
Why don't you ask the government? China might not have mask shortage anymore, but some Asian countries still have mask shortage issue. They can only have limited number of masks per week and they need to use their ID card or medicare card to buy masks each week.
Honestly, I've gone through this already. You need more than just masks if you want to be safe. You need eye protection and as soon as you returned from outside, you need to disinfect. It's best to go have a shower right away and change clothes. If this is the way the government want us to do or this is the way Australians prefer, then we currently have supply issue on many items, not just masks.
It has also been pointed out that you need to avoid touching your face and re-adjusting the mask increases that risk. Furthermore, if you believed the virus will get trapped on the outside of the mask, then you need to dispose the mask carefully and immediately wash your hands when you take off the mask.
Also, is wearing a mask going to give you a false sense of security so you ended up going out more?
These people with masks their relatives and friends bought for them. Some of them got them through connections. Some of them clearly contributed to the initial mask shortage in those countries.
I just did ask - you think their web monitoring units don't follow this site? Dream on….
@petry: The government cares more about ensuring medical supplies are available. When I talked to a colleague of mine about shortage of masks here for general public back in Feb, he told me masks are not an issue for people working in hospitals. Think about those people first. There are items hospitals really need, masks are not one of them. Our industries are busy making sure hospitals have them. Don't forget the 2019-2020 bushfires. Quite a lot of masks were used up.
You can get masks here. There are plenty of sellers on eBay selling them. You could also buy from overseas sellers if you prefer. It's easier to import them from China and have our local industries work on more pressing needs for hospitals.
Right now, social distancing is more important. If you considered some of the recent cases of infection, some of them happened in a restaurant where one person in a table has Covid-19 and he infected his friends. How are masks going to solve this? There was also a case in Asia where a hospital staff was infected and they traced it back to the kitchen area.
South Korea, China still have new cases today and people there wear masks.
Below is from our government's Web site:
If you are well, you do not need to wear a surgical mask as there is little evidence supporting the widespread use of surgical masks in healthy people to prevent transmission in public.
If you truly believe our government lied, then certainly go get masks and use them.
When you are sick, we prefer you to stay at home, rather than going to school or office. If you must, certainly wear a mask, but don't get upset when people are not happy to see you or avoid you.
I wish someone told my employer that. They want us working when sick because sickies come out of their extremely tight budget. If you take a sickie, you don't get replaced. Other people who are salaried have to do extra hours unpaid to cover the slack.
Yeah, your bosses might want you to work. But, I don't. I want you to stay at home and recover.
nice u care no pollie does
Where were your ancestors born?
Unless you're indigenous, stfu.
Sick of people saying WHO says this and that. If you still believe WHO has people's health as their top priority, you are very naive. How can you think that based on how WHO behaved in the last 2 months? They are basically puppets controlled by Chinese money.
then you believe your gov?good luck
Believe them for what?
who is yank controlled - try reading some facts
try reading up on what "facts" actually mean.
Can everyone reading this page who is getting the confidence to go out because of all this mask talk and after watching a few YouTube vids on how to correctly use the masks. just remember that the droplets when sick people breath and cough can also very easily get into your eyes and make u sick. just like breathing the virus in can.
so unless your wearing a full face P100 3M respirator or at least tight fitting safety goggles also, you are not very protected. dont go out in public unless u REALLY need to.
Nah, to those people, Covid-19 always targets the mask and gets trapped. The Covid-19 virus is super intelligent and always go for masks. Never goes for eyes, clothes, hair, or smartphones.
Honestly, on top of what ego22 mentioned above, remember to wash your hands BEFORE and AFTER wearing a mask. Anytime you touched the front of your mask, you need to wash your hands again. You want to sanitise your shoes and clothes when you return home (to protect your love ones). It's best to have a shower immediately, change clothes and wash the clothes. The reality is that if you really want to start talking about doing everything safe, there is a lot you need to do. And, because there is so much you need to do, you are really better off minimising going to public areas. Wearing a mask alone and thinking that's safe could be more dangerous.
If you want to go down the path that wearing a mask is 10%, 20% or x% safer than without, then as long as you realise you are still taking risks going out and remain cautious, that's fine. But, don't assume a non-mask wearer won't take alternative measures (such as reduce going out to public more than you).
Alternatively, you can just be a true blue Aussie. Have Vegemite toast, Four & Twenty meat pies and go to the beaches.
If people deliberately go out more than they need to because of masks, they are a silly as the people saying masks are useless.
Today we went into a fruit and veg shop didn't realize I need to bring a mask because we were the only couple that didn't wear a mask.
It's useless when the minority is wearing face mask.
But can be very effective if the majority/ all wears face mask and do not touch the surface of any public property or anyone else.
I.e. it's useless, in Australia.
Yet another non-sense. Masks protect yourself as well as others. I don't see how it's useless just because not everyone wears it.
Covid patients dont go to rails or surfaces to cough.. they cough, the droplets/virus roam around for a while before settling to surfaces. Thats the time people can inhale it and the use of mask can help with that.
Just my 2c re: masks - as a Doctor (Anaesthetic Registrar) who will likely be on the frontlines.
Just trying to provide a little bit of education as to why some masks are recommended for certain situations.
The fundamental problem is trying to decide whether SARS CoV2 (virus responsible for COVID-19) is transmissible via droplets or if it is truly airborne.
The vast majority of "airborne" illnesses are actually spread via respiratory droplets rather than being truly airborne.
There is no scientific evidence to prove that SARS-CoV2 is a true airborne virus - most sites claiming "airborne" transmission are actually referring to droplet.
True airborne transmission is more significant, as viral particles are much smaller compared to a droplet of fluid.
Droplet/Aerosol
- Viral particles are suspended in liquid droplets (sputum, mucous, saliva) and are expelled from the infected host with coughing, sneezing, talking etc.
- Viral particles are deposited on surfaces that these droplets land on and transfer of droplets to a susceptible non-infected person may result in infection
- If virus containing droplets are deposited onto a surface, the liquid from the droplet would evaporate resulting in viral particles being left behind on the surface.
- If these deposited viral particles remain viable, subsequent contact with this surface by a person could potentially transfer this to their hands (and subsequently to their respiratory tract if we keep touching our faces)
- There is some evidence to suggest surface viral viability is Stainless steel > plastic > cardboard > copper (https://www.nejm.org/doi/full/10.1056/NEJMc2004973) but it is unclear what levels are required to remain infectious.
Airborne
- Viral particles travel in the air after being expelled from infected host
- Viral particles once contacted with the respiratory tract of a susceptible non-infected person could lead to infection.
- Similarly, viral particles directly deposited onto surfaces could lead to transmission as mentioned above.
With respect to masks:
1. Standard surgical masks - are effective for preventing droplet transfer. Not effective for prevention of Airborne viral transfer.
2. N95 masks - more effective for preventing airborne viral transfer.
When would we use N95 masks
- Used for healthcare workers with direct close contact to patients and potential aerosol-generating procedures
- For what is deemed an Aerosol generating procedure - see Appendix 1 - Please note these interim guidelines are a couple of weeks old, but most hospital policies (including my own) adopt a very similar strategy. (https://www.health.gov.au/sites/default/files/documents/2020…)
Other important things:
1. Hand hygiene - you could be carrying the virus after touching anything!
2. Don't touch your face/mask - you could be spreading virus particles to whatever you touch.
Lastly…
Please, please, please - Stay the F@#$ at home unless absolutely essential.
How? store rationing drives out carers every day to feed the sick and the disabled they care for - They can't shop for the week anymore they can't shop barely for 2 days now….
oh sorry you're a doctor - reality is not in your remit.Now what's your ppe stocks like?
I appreciate my reality is not the same as some others.
Nowhere have I said don't got out at all, but to limit it to essential trips.
I too have had to make trips out to the supermarket grocer once-twice a week to buy necessary groceries.
I have not had too many issues buying the absolute essentials from my grocer/butcher/supermarket - I would urge everyone to reassess what they deem to be essential items so you can minimise how much time you spend out and about.
My personal PPE stocks count to a bottle and a half of hand sanitizer and that's it.
Lastly, if you want to consider swapping my reality (if you have the required skill set to be heading in to the hospital everyday to look after these sick patients - granted our Victorian hospitals are yet to be flooded, but they will - and our ICU is still full of regular non-COVID19 patients), get in touch and we can swap. I'd love nothing more than staying home as much as I can with my family too.
Hey tspec, thank you for the work that you do in saving people’s lives. Sounds like some people take it for granted and feel it’s their right to have medical staff put their own lives on the line in a time like this to save the rest of us. Thankfully I think they’re in the minority.
How? store rationing drives out carers every day to feed the sick and the disabled they care for - They can't shop for the week anymore they can't shop barely for 2 days now….
I still can't buy essentials - I can't buy more than 2 days of food at a time now - and looking after the critically ill without any respite or help has got a whole harder. I wish I could just stay at home and had a fit and well family but that's not my lot. Like thousands of aussies doing it tough we're doing it tougher now, and you reckon it's a bit of a holiday?
@petry: I don't doubt for a second that lots of families are doing it tough.
Nowhere in my responses have I asked you to stay at home and never leave.
All I'm pleading for is for people to keep this to as minimal a number as possible.
I'm sorry that in your area/situation the minimum possible may be every second day.
Hopefully things improve once idiots stop hoarding but what we've seen from a lot of the Australian public over the last fortnight it's very much a "me first" mentality and people underestimating the seriousness of the situation.
Unfortunately, it's probably too late to avert a potential crisis and the whole health sector is bracing for the inevitable.
Nowhere have I mentioned that caring for a sick family member is a holiday, and yes it may take a gargantuan effort. Hopefully this does not require you putting your life on the line with a sickness that poses anywhere between a 1 in 500 to 1 in 50 chance of death.
@tspec: well of course that's the effect of rationing on those who can't buy more than 2 days of food now at 1 supermarket….
hoarders just made it worse for the sick the elderly the disabled and their carers, supermarkets didn't help. and when the carers are all dead the system will have to pick up the slack.
your mortality figures are way 2 low by the way… reckon those are for hospital staff, not the people in the community already struggling.
The Commonwealth Government of Australia do not require people who are well to wear masks.
This is the official line.
To believe other quack advice is to be uninformed and un-Australian.
your house is on fire - do you:
1 do nothing and drop to your knees and pray
2. take off your shirt - soak it under the garden tap or the pool and get back in there to try and save your family.
According to our prime minister 1 is the Australian way.
3). Call for a fire rescue…
Right. Because governments and politicians never lie and other nations who mandate wearing of masks are all ill informed and crazy?
Oh and please stop using the word "un-Australian". WTF does that even mean? Does it mean a nation of panic buyers? Toilet paper hoarders?
The same government who welcomed a boat load of positive people into sydney whithout the community knowing. Yes they are doing an exceptional job.
Trying to protect yourself and others is now un-Australian? (what a dumbass)
Me thinks that Dack Smith's satirical little haiku has just gone woooooooooooosh
Just wear mask & wash hands ..save ur ass..dont worry bout others what they think..future expenses if in ur hands 😂
Was at the international airport not too long ago and this woman exclaims loudly "look they've got masks on, they must be sick!" Her poor husband looked so embarrassed.
We wore masks because my wife is pregnant and I'm severely asthmatic. The woman proceeded to itch between her eyes and nose right after lifting her hand from the escalator. Pretty sure she was one of the reasons we wore the masks.
mask is also useful in repelling those people.
Was walking past a guy in Brisbane CBD yesterday and this idiot had a finger in his mouth trying to pick something between his teeth. No bloody wonder this virus is spreading like crazy when people have no clue about basic hygiene.
He could have washed his hands. Did you ask?
I didn't need to. He looked filthy. Besides, whether he washed his hands or not is irrelevant. At times like this, you would have to be stupid to put your finger in your mouth. You shouldn't even touch your face so what makes you think putting finger in your mouth is wise?
Only a few fools without masks in my area. Around 90% of people are wearing masks. There are plenty of sellers including $2 shops selling surgical masks. Any mask is better than no mask. In fact some shitty cotton mask is probably enough because it can catch the droplets.
If you look at the empirical evidence you'll see countries where mask awareness is higher have lower infection rates. It's not rocket science. Don't believe WHO and those other organisations. Your health comes first. The medical journals have the real information. You should be reading that stuff.
It's clear because you can see people with a dust mask and that is undoubtedly better than no mask. Even at worst it stops you from touching your mouth and nose; which is the best thing you can do for yourself. Asymptomatic carriers can be present too.
The only reason politicians are saying not to wear masks is because they cannot guarantee supply. If you can get supply then it's a no brainer.
I'm right in the heart of where the virus is spreading. It's basically an Asian enclave if that's what you westerners call it.
Where can I get a surgical masks for $2? Which shops? Nothing in my area
You tried Box Hill in Melbourne? I'm in NSW, so can't really compare; but a lot of the Asians have done mass imports to save the country.
Disposable Latex Gloves are also all the rage $10 for a box, same price as woolworths but not sold out. You just need to know where to look.
If you want to pay a bit more, there is the N95 equivalent to the KF94 in the Korean stores as well. $10 for 3.
Plenty of sandwich bags in woolies, comes in small or mediumsize(for large hands).
You get 150 bags for under $1. If you double bag a hand that's still 75 gloves for $1.
All you need is some sticky tape or rubber band to keep them on for hours.
I'm right in the heart of where the virus is spreading. It's basically an Asian enclave if that's what you westerners call it.
Have all the Asians been to Italy and the USA lately? source
the asian brought it to Italy
Could help if you read the link, if you can write a reply you can read.
3/4 of COVID 19 cases in Australia is as a result of travel to Europe and America.
Unless all our Asians were flying to Europe or America before on ward to Asia.
Were you at St Kilda beach today too?
who
Like it was intentional. Don't forget plenty of things started by caucasian people. Would you like me to start the list? Those who live in glass houses. Maybe we'll haha at you when you get evicted or run out of money.
Please wear masks when venturing outside wherever possible and help slow the spread.
If you already have it or suspect you have it.
Only china can supply N95 mask in the world now.
Sure australia don't have any and keep claiming social distance, wash hands habits. They are most important but have a mask on is a plus lower percentage of infect covid19
Just watch how everyone in China, even Asian countries wear mask.
Aussie have no urgency on wearing mask or simply we can't produce any masks quick enough like China
South korea started planning and manufacturing back in January.
Our leaders just prayed they wouldn't get it, reluctantly tossed the hellfires a few bucks, and did nothing.
I feel this thread is a good example of how mask may induce heightened security in some people.
Yes, there is a correlation between country wearing masks and better management of the virus. However, there are many other factors such as stronger testing and quarantine strategies. As far as we know, masks likely played a small role in keeping the general public healthy.
I don't believe advising the public that they do not need masks if they are healthy is a conspiracy. A quick google search shows there was a similar discussion a decade ago revolving around SARS and the guidance has remained the same:
"That's the reason why we recommend that those masks be used for patients with SARS because it contains their secretions and prevents them from being disseminated in the environment"
https://www.webmd.com/lung/news/20030429/can-mask-protect-yo…
"As SARS CoV has been suggested to be spread by aerosol droplet and not to any significant degree by airborne transmission, masks will probably provide some increased protection to the general public. However, as noted by Syed, it is necessary that they be properly used and changed frequently."
https://jech.bmj.com/content/58/5/434.1
At the end of the day for the general public, masks seem to offer limited protection and may increase risk if used incorrectly.
Personally I feel even if I know how to use a mask correctly, the protection it offers during my day to day activity is probably not worth the risk of a front line nurse or doctor missing out on protection they actually need.
However, everyone have different risk tolerance and priorities. If you want to wear a mask, it's your choice. Just follow the correct wearing and disposing procedures (e.g dispose in closed lid bins) so you don't cause unnecessary risk to yourselves and others.
I have a feeling if you don't buy the masks, others will buy it to resell for a profit.
Simple. They're out of stock.
It serves more so as a reminder to stop being a fk wit and go back inside rather than going to Bunnings and walking your dog.
https://(profanity).com
masks save lives, the evidence is here
google WearAF—ingMask for the website
I'm a good driver, I don't need to wear the seat belt nor buy car insurance.
No… Seat belt saves lives for sure. However, you need to wear the seat belt properly. If you put the seat belt behind your back, it does nothing. If you playing with your seat belt when you drive, it will distract you and you are much easier to have an accident. To use the seat belt properly, you need professional training. So let's stop wearing seat belts.
Isn't it a funny argument?
nanoparticles of covid19 will penatrate right thru paper without N95 mask middle static layer. this is just plain useless idea
No expert, but seems to be a good idea for reducing spread of the virus from you to others. Similar to a surgical mask.
No, this is idiotic.
@HerpinDerp: Desperate times desperate measures. Having anything covering your mouth while you cough would reduce the the spread. This isn't to protect yourself from the virus, but to protect others. Simply stating something is idiotic without reason is in itself idiotic.
Because common sense is far more important, and the only facemask important are on those who are catering to your illness in hospital, or quarantining you as a official representative of the government be it first responders.
CO-vid 19 is Sars 2.0 supercharged and (even blood types can play a role on who gets it, since no official information is known about covid19, and it can easily bypass facemasks since it's much more complicated then influenza while irrelevant the blood type thing) that means those masks people buy only complicate those first responders or those in ICU dealing with infected because masks are there to prevent not only covid19 but vomit, direct coughing in the face, and it's still not known if the first responders safe.
So let the experts use the masks and you stay at home.
People use masks like a safety blanket so they could justify going outside.
In addition they justify to themselves they are safe and can touch / do whatever they want.
People wearing masks are the most dangerous because they are over confident of their safety, they have been out more often, touched more surfaces.
Should join this thread too:)
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/525101
Let me point it out before this all gets very serious the vote was 2 to 1 against wearing a mask, now its neck to neck with wearing a mask if available on the top.
I guess, after all, more people are starting to believe wearing one will do better than not wearing one. Which questions the governments saying please don't wear one when you are not sick.
We should use masks, be mindful and keep going to work instead of total shutdown.
Believe me or not, China controlled the spread within 2 months is a miracle. With these attitudes and devisive opinions in West, it will take months or years.
The Virus already changes our lives as we used to know forever. Admit it and move on.
Hong Kong and these countries
Winnie is furious and wants to know your location
For those that say wearing masks in public won't protect you from the coronavirus epidemic — the point isn't just to protect you from getting the flu, even though evidence points to it to be able to do so to a certain degree. The main point is to prevent you from spreading it to others if you caught it unknowingly from droplets or infected surfaces. Authorities are telling you that "masks don't work" because their intention is to save the masks for healthcare workers in the front lines, NOT because it doesn't help flatten the curve.
Dr. Scott Gottlieb, the former commissioner of the FDA says, "If you have the flu, you would have a 50% less likely to transmit the flu if you have a mask on."
See here: https://www.wsj.com/video/wearing-a-mask-in-a-coronavirus-pa…
"If you have the flu, you would have a 50% less likely to transmit the flu if you have a mask on."
IF you don't have COVID 19 you have 0% chance of transmitting it. Stay inside, stick to social distancing.
If you have COVID-19, you can be asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic while still contagious, by the time you have symptoms, it's already too late.
What we need to do is like what Jacinda Ardern has said, we need to act as if we all have COVID-19 before we have it. Hence, wear a masks.
BTW, why can't we do both at the same time? You can practice social distancing, hand hygiene while wearing a mask - they are not mutually exclusive.
I don't know whether you are agreeing or disagreeing.
Personally I made a decision to not book to go to London in May back in Feb because I don't want to go long distance, be exposed and potentially kill someone through me spreading it. Unfortunately not for some other people considering most of our cases are imported.
People in their 20s have the most confirmed cases of COVID-19 of any age group, with women in that cohort accounting for more cases than their male peers.
Where have these people been crawling through COVID I have no idea. Article here
Traveling, not making the world a better place but putting people out of jobs.
@netjock: Point 1: The current guideline re: self-isolation is inadequate, it does not cover all the potential COVID-19 spreader as they can be asymptomatic or pre-symptomatic while being contagious. This means that the person sitting next to you can become symptomatic in the next 24 hours without him/her being aware of that - and if you have sat next to that person for more than 15 minutes, congrats, you are now a close contact.
That's where mask wearing can help - if everyone can wear a mask even when they are asymptomatic, this will dramatically reduce the risk of potential community transmission.
Point 2: Hand hygiene and social distancing help. So does wearing a mask. You can do all 3 at the same time. It's not an either or.
@systema: Point 1: is your opinion. You can be like those preachers with megaphones in the city centre.
No one is going to listen to you if people don't get you. You might think instilling a sense of urgency is helpful but be careful what you say as other people start to panic.
It is not to say we should do Bondi Bunch was doing 2 weeks ago.
@netjock: Point 1 is not my opinion, please refer to this article written by Rothe, et al in New England Journal of Medicine (March, 2020) - https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMc2001468 - regarding transmission of 2019-nCoV infection from an asymptomatic contact in Germany. The authors pointed out that "this case of 2019-nCoV infection was diagnosed in Germany and transmitted outside Asia. However, it is notable that the infection appears to have been transmitted during the incubation period of the index patient, in whom the illness was brief and nonspecific.
The fact that asymptomatic persons are potential sources of 2019-nCoV infection may warrant a reassessment of transmission dynamics of the current outbreak. In this context, the detection of 2019-nCoV and a high sputum viral load in a convalescent patient (Patient 1) arouse concern about prolonged shedding of 2019-nCoV after recovery."
Another article in the Lancet (March, 2020) by Wilder-Smith et al also indicated that "preliminary evidence from exported COVID-19 cases suggest that transmission during the early phase of illness also seems to contribute to overall transmission; therefore, isolation of more severely ill patients at the time of presentation to health-care facilities will be too late. The effectiveness of isolation and contact tracing methods depends on the proportion of transmission that occurs before symptom onset. Pre-symptomatic transmission will also make temperature screening less effective." - https://www.thelancet.com/journals/laninf/article/PIIS1473-3099(20)30129-8/fulltext
At this point of time, peer reviewed evidence specific to SARS-CoV-2 is not readily available as we are less than 3 months from the initial outbreak. Having said that, other clinical evidence around respiratory infections can also be valuable due to the similar transmission vectors utilised by SARS-CoV-2 and other viral respiratory infections such as influenza.
Current evidence from an Australian study is that masks can prevent 60-80% of influenza infections in a home setting if used routinely. This means masks could be a useful tool in fighting viral outbreaks like COVID-19. Full text: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2662657/
There is also other scientific evidence showing that wearing a surgical mask does help with infection control against respiratory infections.
Case in point, Uchida et al (2016) suggested that "wearing of masks were effective in infection control." https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S221133551…
Systematic review conducted by Barasheed et al (2016) suggests that "Facemask use seems to be beneficial against certain respiratory infections at MGs (mass gatherings)". https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(16)31010-4/fulltext
While it might not be able to provide the same level of protection as a P2 / N95 respirator, surgical masks themselves appeared to be able to provide at least some protection to their wearers. In fact, research conducted by Radonovich et al. (2019) indicates that "Among outpatient health care personnel, N95 respirators vs medical masks as worn by participants in this trial resulted in no significant difference in the incidence of laboratory-confirmed influenza." https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/31479137
You may also want to look at some other evidence provided by Siddharth Sridhar, who is a Clinical Assistant Professor at The University of Hong Kong - https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10158387002739258&se…
@systema: oh my did you miss.
Paragraph 1. "appears" to have been transmitted
Paragraph 2. "potential" source of
Paragraph 3. "preliminary" evidence
Paragraph 4. peer review evidence not readily available
Paragraph 5. Could be useful. 60 - 80% effective in a home setting (sustained exposure to others with flu)
Just panicking to yourself. Stay at home. Use a mask going about essential business. Stop wondering outside like the mask is a virus shield. It isn't.
@netjock: If you are insisting that you are correct, please provide peer reviewed, scientific evidence to support your position then.
Having said that, please finish reading the journal articles that I have provided before we continue this discussion.
I think people should get masks. If we get 99.9% of people wearing masks I would feel safe walking around without a mask.
Herd immunity in reverse! Save a bomb load of $
Just had an argument with a nurse at liverpool hospital. They asked me to remove my mask as it is a requirement(??wtf) when within that ward.
I ask her why are't they wearing mask? How does she know who has it and who don't given we have not test everyone because most people are fefused by covid 19 clinic to be tested. Eventually she admit that they are only given ONE mask per day, so they only use it when treating potentially infectous patient. Again that have nothing to do with me wearing my mask to protect mysefl and others around me. Why do i need to remove it?
When you enter different wards you need to replace the mask. It's protocol. Nurses will use up to 8 to 10 masks a day.
It's to stop infection across the wards. There is also a recommendation to keep the mask on whenever possible and where the regulations don't apply. e.g. Outside the hospital, but it should be changed before you exit. I should clarify that I am referring to ordinary citizens.
Replacing a mask and not allowed to wear it at all are 2 differrent things.
I was told i cannot wear any mask when i am in their ward, which does not make any sense
Why are you arguing with a nurse? She is employee and if you don't like it leave. It is like you walking nude down the street. The police and pull you up and if you don't like it get back into your house.
Did you go to Bondi Beach too last Saturday?
There is a problem with authority in this country, not sure where it comes from. Most of us sure isn't first generation convicts. The authority on this matter is COVID 19 and it doesn't care about how good your reasoning skills are.
Saw a video of a medical conference saying that wearing masks might result in you touching your face more often to adjust it. As COVID-19 is not an airborne mask and most likely contracted by touching an infected service, it's not required. Just need to social distance and wash hands thoroughly.
If you're in a crowded place with no social distancing, that might be a different story.
I think I know the conference you are talking about. There was another speaker afterwards that refuted those claims.
It went along the lines of: It might increase, but at the same time that could just be a normal response and that it was the person touching the mask instead of touching their nose in ordinary circumstances. In that the same person would likely have touched the bridge of their nose or the area right beneath the nose anyway. This means that the transmission onto objects is going to happen regardless of whether you are wearing a mask or not, people are going to do stupid things. The thing is to prevent yourself catching the infection. Having the mask on prevents you from poking your finger near the nasal passages and wearing glasses prevents eye contact. You should wash your face after you come back or before you eat anyway.
TLDR: If you use ceteris paribus argument, given there is the same chance of getting the virus on your skin with or without the mask; then spreading it is basically the same. It is the action of wearing a mask that will prevent infection.
Thus the recommendation not to wear a mask was defeated.
Having the mask on prevents you from poking your finger near the nasal passages and wearing glasses prevents eye contact. You should wash your face after you come back or before you eat anyway.
That is easy. Just dip end of your fingers in chill juice. Will teach you real quick.
The experts can't agree but what we can agree is health personal is running out of PPE (incl masks). If they can't get enough and they die, when we get it then we're all stuffed.
If you live in areas with high Asian population, almost everyone wear mask now and no one really give a shit that you wear mask. People should be able to have the choice to wear mask or not. If you don’t think mask helps then don’t wear it. For people who can buy masks and not hoarding the Australian stock then why not? You can learn to wear mask in 2 minutes, it’s not exactly rocket science. Some people like me need to be careful because our immune system is not great and very easy to fall sick. It’s not like I will stop washing my hands with a mask on. Yes, some people will wear mask wrong or keep touching their mask, but it’s their issue not yours… beside when you need to adjust your mask clean hands first, then after you’re done clean hands again. It’s what many people in Asia are doing when you see them removing or adjusting their mask, they clean their hands before and after. Wear glasses also, if you have prescription glasses wear them or wear sunglasses. Any chance of protection helps, especially for people with weak immunity.
Stop blaming China. Yes it started there, but how badly its doing in Australia is due to our own ineptness in dealing with this issue. We didn't learn from the Asians who knew what to do after going through SARS, so they could control it…. we on the other hand follow countries like the US (run by an idiot in denial) with hardly any prior experience in dealing with such health issues. So we have ourselves to blame for utilising racism over experience in our COVID-19 response efforts.
People just love others for them not washing their hands, taking a shower and keeping it hygienic. We hate immigrants because they come over here and work harder just like ancestors of the local people. Greeks, Italians who left a broken Europe after WWII to come here to create a better life. If you speak good English and have a qualification you'll beat someone for a job if they just arrived but don't know the ropes.
Statistics are by far the biggest exporter to our COVID 19 epidemic is Italy and America source. No apologies for spread the virus around.
masks protect you from the flu: studies found a 75% reduction in the risk of infection for parents taking care of children.
Simple surgical masks work as well as N95 respirators in reducing the spread of flu.
For own safety. we better wear masks.
Maybe this is why all the masks disappeared
https://www.news.com.au/finance/business/chinese-company-shi…
https://www.theage.com.au/national/second-developer-flies-82…
Heartbreaking for the doctors and medical teams here who now don't have basic protection.
Yeah, 1 - 2 months ago. No covid19 in Australia at that time. Why don't we order from China now? They paid retail price for Australian masks(imported from China anyway) and we will pay wholesale price to buy them back.
There was Covid in Australia at the time. And the Chinese government has blocked exports of masks now…except to 'friendly' countries who buy the propaganda
Still possible to get them from China. You just need to know people it seems.
Yes, there were less than 10 and nobody cares about masks at that time. Where is your source that Chinese government has blocked exports of masks? It might be the case a month ago. But now, Chinese mask factories are struggling to survive. The surgical mask retail price is as low as AUD$0.40 each in some cities. Plenty Chinese people have bought their masks online and shipped to Australia already. It is up to the government or medical organisation to order if they do need them.
@qiaoer: Surgical masks in Melbourne at $80 per 50 retail. If you can get them in China for $0.40 then a good profit to be made.
I'd suggest you get right on it since you are so knowledgeable.
@netjock: It is quite risky actually. Minimum quantity is 100,000 pieces for whole sale price atm. Also, most airlines have stopped and hard to get anything shipped quickly. A friend has already invited me to slipt 100,000 pieces to reduce the risk and I declined because I am not able to sell that much. He then ordered with higher price for 10,000 early last week and those masks haven't arrived yet because the masks need to be transferred in a third country. Also it will take time to get custom cleared in Australia. So without government help, it will take definitely more than 2 weeks to receive them and you don't know what will happen within the period.
@qiaoer: You need better friends. I have been offered 1k minimum order wholesale. Can sell at $80 and make $20 per 50 after all costs.
Yes it is. We see sick people everyday and gave to re use masks. Gov has done nothing to stop the price hiking.
In a few days time when cases with pneumonia increases, our hospital staff will not be adequately protected.
People!! patients with pneumonia symptoms means virus is airborne. This is why medical staff are easily infected.
Gov hasn’t done enough to stop the spread. Ppl in general should taken it upon yourselves to self isolate.
We are doomed. Please do us a favour and stay at home!
Please do us a favour and stay at home!
Can't we all party together rubbing shoulders with a N95 mask like it was Jan 2020?
This was an outrageous act, what's the saying, fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me
Personally I think it's a question of wisdom. I don't agree with wearing surgical masks outside because "they are better than nothing". Because I want to be protected as much as I can, with the limited means that I have, I just ordered 100 KN95 masks from china via DHL earlier today for a ridiculous $450 - hopefully I can split that with a few friends etc. I couldn't find N95 masks anywhere for sale in Australia - which is good, since they should only be in hospitals. KN95 are the equivalent Chinese standard, so I know I'm not taking away from local AU certified hospital stocks.
how many months delivery?
with only 100 masks split between people. let me leave u with some terrible advise that might help u. they are disposable and are only made to be warn once. but the virus dies in under 72 hours on non porus surfaces. so if u have a system where u rotate the masks. and wait at least 4 or 5+ days before u use it again. it would be clean again (virus free)
I paid for express DHL delivery… hopefully 1 week.
Yes - most people have no idea how to use masks safely and effectively.
Can also disinfect by dunking in 70% isopropyl alcohol (which fortunately I have).
Good video on cleaning masks: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2UdtKssU7po
Or just simply spray the used mask with saline water, put it in a 800W microwave and run for 1 minute to disinfect
@trienchieu12: lol.. we do that with our kitchen sponges, just soak with water and in the microwave.
i never thought of doing that to a mask.
ive seen a few of his covid 19 videos already, that guy is great. i also have alot of isopropyl alcohol. but there has been alot of cleaning mask talk that mentions adding a liquid to wash masks seperates the fibres in the mask and might make it less effective. but if the virus dies in about 3 days, just by doing nothing at all. why would you risk compromising it.
Everyone should be wearing masks. There's shortage and cultural problem in Australia. Look at Japan and Hong Kong both have less numbers than us and much higher population density.
WHO and Scomo failed us
Everyone should be wearing masks
Australians do. Pick the mask of choice:
I am sure people here will add more
You're kidding yourself if you think China gave a mask to their entire population. If you cant get one i wouldn't worry. But if you can, wear it.
But if you can, wear it.
If you can get a guaranteed supply. Unfortunately it is a finite resource. Leave the masks to the professionals right now.
Good article on the ABC Australia
It is idiots like these who will get more people killed. People should stop travelling for their own and everyone else's sake.
You're wasting masks right now. It is like firing a rifle when your enemy is out of range. 2 - 3 weeks if we don't get it under control.
Right now. Don't wear a mask but tell people to self isolate if they came back from overseas or been in contact with strangers often. Social distance. Wash your hands.
Good luck.
'idiots like these who will get more people killed'
not sure who you are calling idiots there - or just a random spray - it's always useful to blame others when you have a problem.
a common scenario in our free society -
when I don't need anything it's far cough and get out of my face creep
when I need something, it's OMG why isn't everybody paying attention to this life threatening emergency happening right now !?!?!?!?
not sure who you are calling idiots there - or just a random spray - it's always useful to blame others when you have a problem.
You haven't read the article have you?
yes I did - I was just referring to the common assumption of commenters like you that something in your mind is obvious to a complete stranger looking at your comment as a standalone remark - 'idiots like these' - oh - good - you didn't specify - oh you mean someone (unspecified) in an article you linked to ? oh good - carry on - in your own imagination you are always right - others are the idiots - right …
in your own imagination you are always right
Sorry but there is a difference supported claims and unsubstantiated claims. Calling people idiots without support.
I was going to an event in London at the start of May 2020. I decided late Feb 2020 to send my apologies because once Iran & Italy caught COVID 19 it is going to spread. The distance traveled would increase risk I will catch it. I might survive but I can't live with the idea of infecting someone and they die.
I'd say a lot of people went overseas because they didn't want to lose their refundable booking. If we are scared of it lurking around then why are these people taking the chance by travelling?
IF you are acting against government advice on wearing face masks then why did people not act contrary to government advice (which was it is still allowed to traveled to Europe and USA)? Government says stop panic buying and people still do.
There was enough notice. It wasn't a sudden earthquake. The writing was on the wall in Feb 2020.
The only panic is for those who did not adequately prepare with an action plan. I've been watching this since late Jan 2020 when it took off in China and monitored the numbers actively through internet sources and see the trend of infection curves. If you don't act like everything is fine like you live in fairy land then there is no panic.
I'll go with shortage of masks where they want to keep limited supply available to higher exposure risk health care workers
I've read that masks may reduce the likelihood of picking up the virus by about 25% - I suspect mainly by preventing you unconsiously touching the mucus membranes of your nose and mouth as common entry points for the virus - to block your eyes you need a full face mask like DIY large plastic drink bottle cut lengthwise to then wrap around your whole face - so the next time someone sneezes in your face - wait - no-one has ever done that ? hmmm.
I wouldnt go to a shop or be around people without a mask now.
Everyone should be in a mask. N95 is overkill and in an ideal world we should, but those should be left for healthcare professionals.
Everyone should be using whatever they can as a daily mask, not to avoid getting it (although it can help there too), but to avoid spreading it given we don't know who's carrying. Whatever we can do to minimise transmission risk and masks are an incredible tool to accomplish this. Even a washable cloth mask with proper guidance can make a difference. Not only that but it's a great always-there reminder not to touch your mouth. I'm a bad face toucher, and it helps break that unconscious movement.
The countries using masks are the ones keeping this under control, or at least having much more success. Of course there are other measures, but they all use masks as well.
Everyone should be in a mask
if you can make one big enough.
There is a little problem of supply vs demand
Even if it costs a little more on eBay, buying it and wearing it helps the overall situation.
If you want cheaper, you can buy equivalent N95/P2/KN95 respirators from china.
If you can't afford respirators, buy surgical masks, it still helps.
If you don't but it and wear it, scalpers will likely buy it and resell for a profit.
Of course! i want to wear a mask, but i can't find or afford it.
Heaps on ebay. Get a reusable N95 one with replaceable filters.
News limited posted an article yesterday
Chinese based real estate bought up big in Jan/Feb and sent it all to China
3 million surgical face masks
-disinfectants
-sanitisers
wipes
the list goes on
It's bs sensation journalism, the author deliberate made some omissions and the timing of the publish is done deliberately to raise the hatred.
Read this one: https://apac.news/targeting-chinese-australians-in-an-austra…
Murdoch press have been doing a lot of seedy things, including helping Trump get into power.
That was 8th Feb when Australia only had less than 10 cases and China was at 37,198.
Exactly, most of them are donations by civilians (Chinese Australians). I am sure China can and wants to donate back in double or triple.
They will give us nothing.
The virus is still alive and well there.
Surgical.. SURGICAL masks are needed in hospitals in Australia
It's irrelevant how many cases we had. The important fact that they bought everything out and posted it overseas.
They are working for the Government while selling real estate here.
@AS2035: Best part is every ordinary citizen is shoveling money to the Chinese in droves.
Bidding up real estate is one way of doing it. Flipping big screen TVs like it is confetti is another.
If I was Australia I'd be selling as much resources (iron ore, gas) and other farm products to China and spend the least I can. If Australia was a person, it is insolvent, bankrupt and homeless.
Economics in uni: reason why foreign debtors believe in Australian government bonds is because it has the means to pay it back by taxing citizens, if by force they can confiscate assets.
There were multiple news pieces about 2 Chinese real estate firms raiding Australian medical supplies on an industrial scale in multiple newspapers - The Age for example is not the Murdoch press and is in fact relatively left learning. This was in fact done at a time when there was a recognised need in Australia to keep medical supplies for the people who needed them most here in Australia.
Sadly this will result in medical personnel going without and exposed to the virus. China won't really help without something in it for them….masks, PPE and medical equipment are now being used by the CCP as a means of pushing propaganda…not from a desire to actually help humanity.
Have a read of this…
https://www.nationalreview.com/2020/03/coronavirus-pandemic-…
@nutella9: I assume everyone has a brain and can think and not brainwashed. Be objective and stand in the middle and face the fact. CCP is evil for sure. But do not blame CCP for this case. You need to read from both sides to see what actually happened.
As far as I know, not only the 2 Chinese real estates bought masks in Jan/Feb. Chinese people/companies outside of China started to buy masks, medical gowns in almost every country including Africa because the doctors in Wuhan hospitals were screaming for resources and they had to publish their demands on social media. CCP blocked official channels and said there were enough resources. All Chinese in other countries started to bought medical resources and donated to hospitals directly. This is not organized by the Chinese government. There is another more interesting long story afterwards…
France has ordered 1 billion masks from China. I am wondering why can't we do it? It is a government failure and they try to divert focus to someone else.
https://www.reuters.com/article/health-coronavirus-france/fr…
@qiaoer: Things were being shipped to China in April.
Yesterday a group were filmed buying up baby formula in bulk and by bulk I mean trolleys full. They unpacked and came back to get more.
Excellent. I hope that saved lives.
Lives are lives.
I don't get why some people wear masks while they are in their own cars.
It’s the coolest trend now.
Possibility that they don't want to risk touching their mask or face until they can derobe safely at home.
They are on their way to the shops to get essential supplies like everyone else.
The link on the video to Australian Government Department of Health website doesn't recommend wearing a mask. I can tell people drinking alcohol will save you from COVID19
90% of YouTube videos are senseless crap dressed up as good advice.
Yeah, agree about the comments about "it's not about you, it's about everyone else".
You wear a mask so those that cannot afford it, or for some dodgy reason refuse to. It's about protecting others, not just ourselves. So everyone who doesn't wear a mask deliberately is really kicking our health system in the guts and leaving it for the dead. One person can infect many hundreds of thousands of people.
When the racists come out and tell us not to wear masks, it's bat shit crazy. I have no doubt the nurses and doctors in Australia are watching with panic. DIY cloth masks should be bare minimum for everyone. If it means 50% less virus that is viable in the air, that might be enough to allow your immune system to fight it off.
Even in China they started wearing sanitary pads, pomelos and water coolers; where they didn't have a mask.
They can stop you from catching a common flu as well.
A young kid(15yo) backed away today at the shops when I walked past in a mask. Was shooting my little neighbour daggers when she saw her talking to me.
Masks are expensive $40 for a pack of 10 and they don't last long
This is an excellent interview from a Professor in Korea.
Wash hands well
Wear a mask
Social distancing
I watched this today.
COVID-19: WHY WE SHOULD ALL WEAR MASKS — THERE IS NEW SCIENTIFIC RATIONALE
https://medium.com/@Cancerwarrior/covid-19-why-we-should-all…
WHO considers ‘airborne precautions’ for medical staff after study shows coronavirus can survive in air
https://www.cnbc.com/2020/03/16/who-considers-airborne-preca…
YES, EVERYONE SHOULD BE WEARING A MASK!
https://www.facebook.com/214832449817/posts/1015778360541481…
WHO considers changing guidance on wearing face masks
New evidence suggests wearing masks in public could help contain the pandemic
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/01/all-uk-hospita…
So all those mentioned WHO stated we don’t need a mask, just keep a social distance. I wonder if they would change their mind now?
Saw more people with mask today. All walks of life and all sorts of background. Hopefully they have compliant mask.
Trump is now approving of wearing of towels, scarves, bandanas and more.
What a king! Ironically I know a lot of Trump supporters are already wearing masks and buying guns.
Looks like the advice has changed to wearing masks. But be careful with China sourced masks…after plundering the world's supply of masks they're sending shitty masks to countries in desperate need of PPE
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-52092395
Not that they won't try ripping you off first!
https://www.smh.com.au/business/companies/ansell-boss-slams-…
China 1 Humanity 0
Europe, with Slovakia and the Czech Republic making face masks compulsory outside of the home.
In Austria, which borders Italy and has 158 deaths and more than 10,000 cases, the use of masks will soon be compulsory in supermarkets.
The UK is now weighing up similar measures.
In an online discussion with former Australian prime minister and Asia Society Policy Institute president Kevin Rudd, Dr Teo YikYing, the Dean of Public Health at the National University of Singapore, said face masks can play a part in preventing further spread.
“It is very clear that face masks do have a certain degree of contribution in reducing the transmissibility of the virus,” he explained.
“Particularly if I’m an infected person and I have my face mask on, the aerosolisation of the virus from my speech and my activity will be signifcantly reduced.”
He said there was also “a degree of protection” provided wearing masks to prevent infection if someone is coughing or sneezing around them.”
No one knows if they’re sick so if you go outside without a face mask you’re putting your community at risk.
I started wearing a mask in public on the fifth of March. And wiping trolley handles. I also ordered a lot of masks for other people but am not allowed to advertise on facebook marketplace or ebay and if you do mention you have some some people say nasty things. I said to one today, your toilet paper will protect you. I have stuck up some fliers around, some have been pulled down. I got 2 enquiries today from one flier so I guess I will have to keep posting them. I have to sell some, I have too many for me and spent some money
I seriously doubt you ordered a lot of masks for other people. What you meant is probability this, I ordered a lot of masks to sell to other people to make a profit. That is call profiteering during crisis and it is frowned upon. That’s is why people say nasty things.
I am an Ebay seller so to me it is just another product. In fact I know where to get lots that anybody can buy, about the price I paid/ am selling for so there is no shortage.
but I wont be buying any more, thats the only difference from my normal buying and selling. Its the same place I buy all my other stock
Good article which cites a Nature journal paper explaining why everyone still working (eg HCW, construction workers, retail), or those heading to the shops, need to wear masks when outside.
2nd August, are we still debating mask vs no mask?
Grabs mask and handwash….