Can't Find a Job. Advice?

LSarah11 on 29/02/2020 - 23:06
Last edited 29/02/2020 - 23:25

I'm in the process finishing a computer science degree, and have been actively looking for my first job as a junior software developer, but have not even been able to get a single interview. Lately I have become quite disheartened about my future prospects in the field. At this stage, I would even be willing to take an unpaid internship as I need some experience.

My grades are very strong, I have put a lot of work into my portfolio and am involved in various IT meetups and hackathons, I am a female so am worried that it may be the reason why I'm finding it so difficult (perception that women can't code is still common unfortunately). I do have a males name though, so may not be the actual reason, not sure.

What do you think I should do to increase my chances of finding work? Masters degree? Bootcamp?

Education & Work

Comments

                  • Hardlyworkin on 01/03/2020 - 09:02
                    +1

                    @[Deactivated]: So you are willing to take unpaid work though don't want to be a diversity hire?

                    Take any job you can get to get some experience. The hardest job to get is your first job. Good grades don't mean a lot in the real world.

                    How strong is your employment history outside of your field?

                    Other than perseverance, pay to get your resume and application skills fined tuned, meet with recruiters, find out from an expert why you aren't getting anywhere.

            • wyrmy on 01/03/2020 - 10:07
              +3

              @Sarah11: If you display the same confidence and perceived competency in your job like you do in this post the respect will easily follow.
              You are looking for jobs as a junior developer. Some of the best developers I've hired had basic acedemic qualifications and others great on paper were average coders at best.
              Get the job. Prove yourself easily. Why get hung up on how you might have got selected?

                • Hardlyworkin on 01/03/2020 - 10:56
                  +19

                  @Sarah11: Merit? You need to stop thinking like a student or university setting. Merit doesn't mean jack in the working world. Who you know and how you get along with people makes all the difference.

                • Skinnerr on 01/03/2020 - 19:41
                  +4

                  @Sarah11: This is the world we live in. Do you want a job, like you say you do? Or do you want your pride. This isn't the classroom, it's dog eat dog and people are hungry.

                  know I am good enough to be hired for my merit.

                  Are they hiring solely based on merit? No? Then wise up, step up to the plate and get into the game. People are biased? Shocker. Use the advantages you have or continue to wallow in misery.

                  You have been given multitudes of advice here and you're being stubborn. You can tell yourself whatever excuses you want, or you can use the advice here and get yourself a job. The choice is yours.

                • [Deactivated] on 02/03/2020 - 17:01
                  +2

                  @Sarah11: What merit?

                  You're looking to enter the industry. You're not an accomplished veteran.

            • gromit on 02/03/2020 - 23:03
              +1

              @Sarah11: Sorry but your uni GPA and merits mean next to nothing in the real world, little more than a tick box. The reality is many businesses have diversity goals, then they take the absolute cream, then the "who you know". After that you are fighting for the scraps. Get a job and experience by whatever advantage you have then you can prove yourself. As others mentioned get your cv checked and don't be afraid to leverage that you are female to get your foot in the door.

            • trapper on 03/03/2020 - 12:42
              +2

              @Sarah11:

              I feel that being a diversity hire would cheapen my accomplishments…

              You are a graduate, you have no accomplishments. This is why it's hard to get a job as a graduate.

              This entitlement is crazy.

        • [Deactivated] on 02/03/2020 - 18:01

          I think I am good enough to make it in on my own merit.Obviously I need to do better to showcase all of skills(…)

          A little humility will open more doors than arrogance ever will.

      • leiiv on 01/03/2020 - 21:41
        +2

        Just put your photo on your CV.. Unfortunately, our society that I know of is not exactly a merit-based ones..

    • OzzyOzbourne on 02/03/2020 - 16:54

      Except where there are more females than males in the workplace, then it doesn't matter

  • sahh on 01/03/2020 - 00:18

    Are these places you’re applying to have online application forms and if so are you leaving anything blank? Larger corporations filter out a lot of people this way.

    • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 00:20

      I don't think I've left anything blank, but I can't remember every application to be honest. I will try and be careful of that in the future. thanks

      • sakurashu on 01/03/2020 - 21:20

        Agree with sahh - always make sure to write a tailored cover letter to go with your resume as well!

  • SmiTTy on 01/03/2020 - 00:22
    +3

    Don't get dis heartened. Grad positions (as are many jobs) are very competitive and doesn't mean u are a bad candidate

    In my opinion, I would suggest you try to get some certifications in your field, I believe that would help u get your foot in the door (may not be a grad job but thats fine)

    Don't give up, keep applying

  • charzy on 01/03/2020 - 00:33
    +1

    Can you share your portfolio? I'm curious as I was in a similar boat but with no degree. Did a bootcamp, had a portfolio and accepted the first offer given to me despite being 1/3rd of my previous careers pay.

    Are you familiar with any of the popular languages/frameworks companies are on the lookout for? I focused primarily on JS (despite the bad rep when people with comp sci degrees talk about it) and became a one trick pony, but the demand is great.

    • SnoozeAndLose on 01/03/2020 - 00:43
      -3

      What is JS?

      • charzy on 01/03/2020 - 00:46

        JavaScript

    • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 00:51

      My portfolio is made up of various open source and hackathon projects, uni assignments, etc. It's a collection of some of the things I have contributed to. Not the most amazing portfolio in the world, but also not the worst.

      I have mostly done web development, with a focus on backend, ruby and Python. I use udemy a lot and have been exploring different options for when I graduate. Would you recommend I do a bootcamp?

      • charzy on 01/03/2020 - 08:29
        +2

        Personally I feel bootcamp is redundant if you've already gone through uni.

        It's a matter of getting a foot through the door now.

        My portfolio is made up of various open source and hackathon projects, uni assignments, etc. It's a collection of some of the things I have contributed to. Not the most amazing portfolio in the world, but also not the worst.

        Are these available in github for prospective employers to see?

        If your focus is on backend, perhaps look into NodeJS. I'm surprised you haven't landed something with Python.

      • fredblogs on 01/03/2020 - 19:47

        tried Thoughtworks?

      • sangohan on 03/03/2020 - 11:26

        Can any of those projects be applicable to any of the companies you applied for? Otherwise, they don't usually pay much attention to it.

        • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 23:04

          I'm not sure. I always feel nervous about talking through my portfolio.

  • Cave Fire on 01/03/2020 - 00:36
    +8

    Most companies don't check cv's using people these days. They have automatic software that does a keyword search to filter cv's. I found this out two weeks ago. If your CV is missing certain keywords it fails this part. So maybe look into this or pay someone $30 to do your resume and CV. You have to up your applications to over a hundred, this filters to about seven or eight interviews and maybe two or three job offers.

    • That Guy on 02/03/2020 - 11:27

      I work closely with recruitment companies and can confirm this.

    • Cave Fire on 02/03/2020 - 11:37

      I read more about this. It's called ATS, applicant tracking system. The relevant keywords are in the job advertisement or the recruiter chooses their own.

    • tpup1 on 03/03/2020 - 10:57

      Can you really get that for $30? That's worth posting a deal about!

      Even if you get the right keyworks, still think it's worth preparing your resume for an actual person. Where I work they still read the resumes. The main thing they do this for is just to check whether you made any mistakes (e.g. spelling, inconsistent formatting) to see whether you have good attention to detail

      • Cave Fire on 03/03/2020 - 11:39
        +1

        Lots of people on Airtasker will reformat a resume for $15 to $25. Normal price is about $35. Some of the cheap providers are ATS compliant.

    • PVA on 03/03/2020 - 11:51

      exactly.

      you have to use the keywords the advert uses. If it asks about say Python you need to have Python in it , dont just say proficient with programming languages, they want the word Python or its auto rejected.

    • peterpeterpumpkin on 05/03/2020 - 10:26

      I think we're overestimating the conscientiousness of good ol' fashioned HR personnel. Since they also perform a keyword search to filter CVs. The ATS developer probably just asked Sharon from HR how she does it normally.

  • Gelato on 01/03/2020 - 00:50
    +3

    Speak to your classmates who have received an offer and asked them what they have done/how they nailed the interviews, etc.

    • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 00:53

      I don't really know anyone who has a job offer. The vast majority in my tutes have been international students so I don't know if they plan to stay or return to work in their country.

      • HighAndDry on 01/03/2020 - 02:12

        Ok, this might be a clue. Where exactly are you doing this computer science degree?

        • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 02:14

          Melbourne. I previously went to Monash. I'm not an international student.

          • darkly on 01/03/2020 - 14:44
            +5

            @Sarah11: If you are in Melbourne, I know a developer that is hiring. PM me

            • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 23:06

              @darkly: Hi ndwaters,

              Thanks for the offer. It says your account is inactive, so I can't message you.

              • darkly on 03/03/2020 - 23:08

                @Sarah11: Haha not sure how Im inactive but I'll send you a message then

          • rlay3 on 02/03/2020 - 01:00
            +5

            @Sarah11: PM me too for opportunities in Melbourne

          • sakurashu on 03/03/2020 - 14:03
            +1

            @Sarah11: What do you mean you previously went to Monash? Where are you actually completing your degree? Your university absolutely matters as people will have a natural predilection towards wherever they studied as well as the general reputation of the university.

            • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 23:07

              @sakurashu: I previously studied physics, several years ago now. Been working in an unrelated field for a while.

              • sakurashu on 04/03/2020 - 15:16

                @Sarah11: Sorry - I took the Melbourne response to mean the city, not the University of Melbourne. Do you have anything to do with Physics on your cv?

      • Gelato on 01/03/2020 - 11:17

        I have been recently asked to comment on which interns to take for a software dev positions. Before that HR had already made their selections, and all the candidates given to me have at least a Distinction average with their list of portfolios. If you think you already have these things ready, maybe polish your CV and you should at least get some interviews.

        in the actual interview, dress properly (dont be surprised a lot of uni students dress too casual for interviews) and be enthusiastic when you talk about your projects.

        Good luck.

        • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 11:19

          I have a HD average, so I don't think it is my grades. I thought my cv was good, but it could be too short and irrelevant. I think it shows just how little experience I have.

          I'm continuing to network and am hopeful that will work.

      • PVA on 03/03/2020 - 11:52
        +1

        talk to your professors too, they may have leads. talk directly to each one, not a general post on a uni board.

  • Zachary on 01/03/2020 - 02:56
    -3

    Member Since
    4 hours 25 min ago

    Ohhh boy….

    • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 03:34
      +4

      I'm a long time lurker. You are very welcome to come along to the next programming session to meet me and see that I am a real woman. PM me for the details if you like.

      • Zachary on 01/03/2020 - 13:00
        -1

        Hm, fair enough…. If you live in Perth, we can do just that…and you will see that I'm actually a real guy and not a robot….

        • Munki on 03/03/2020 - 11:10

          He was a boy…She was a girl. Can I make it anymore obvious?

          • Zachary on 03/03/2020 - 21:10

            @Munki: But how does(Actually how do YOU know that I'm a boy and not a girl, hmmmm? :P I could be posing too, and am actually a girl in disguise!) she know that I'm a boy and how do I know she's a girl without us two meeting up together in person(sure he can drag queen it out and it would blatantly obvious without plastic surgery)? I can't even PM her (or him) even if I wanted to to find out because her (his) messaging system is disabled, so…. she'll (he'll) have to message me instead if she (he) wants to follow up with this….

            For all we know this person could be posing and using aliases like others have said….earlier….

            But I don't really want to hassle the person with this anyway, I'm sure he/she has better things to do than meet up with me to prove our genders….

            • Munki on 03/03/2020 - 21:23
              +2

              @Zachary: Hey man I was just quoting Avril Lavigne.

              • Zachary on 05/03/2020 - 00:05

                @Munki: Then your quote should be in quotation marks or quote markup…….

    • dufflover on 01/03/2020 - 11:41
      +1

      Ohhh boy…

      Don't you mean girl?
      :P

      • Zachary on 01/03/2020 - 12:58

        Yes,…you're quite right….

  • Sinful on 01/03/2020 - 05:49

    I do not work in that field, but the impression I get from friends is that this field is very competitive, with graduates and self-taught people working in the industry.

    Are there major projects for a charity you like, you can do that you think would be widely recognised/easily seen by an employer, to help get your name out in the public space?

    • sakurashu on 03/03/2020 - 14:05

      I honestly find it strange that people keep saying this - here in Brisbane back 3 years ago it seemed to be very easy

  • mubd1234 on 01/03/2020 - 07:12
    +1

    Just as a little experiment - how about modifying your first name to something a bit more feminine (e.g. if your legal name is Jesse, just change it to Jessica) and see if you end up getting a response?

    You can pass it off as your 'nickname' or something during the application process, and once you're hired you can just drop it.

    • modsec802 on 01/03/2020 - 07:41
      +1

      It might be easier to just include a photo? Or write in third person with she/her.

      • mubd1234 on 01/03/2020 - 18:11
        +2

        I've heard that CVs often get tossed if they include a photo because it opens up legal claims of racial discrimination.

      • trapper on 03/03/2020 - 12:50
        +1

        Photo is a bad imho, very amateurish. Just make sure name sounds female, change it a bit or use middle name etc

        No one is going to care later when you said 'Oh my first name is actually Andrew not Angela' haha

  • [Deactivated] on 01/03/2020 - 07:59
    +8
    • Make different versions of your resume - General one which you can splatter around for the jobs you want but are related to your field and a specific one for the field you are after.
    • Get your resume checked by as many people as possible. Keep fixing and updating it. I used zety to keep my resume in one place and to make many quickly.
    • Start networking and ask for help from professors and people who already work in a related field. Don't feel shy to ask if they know anyone who can be helpful to you. You will never know if you don't ask.
    • Start looking at less obvious places. Big companies are watched by many so they get a lot of applications, smaller companies are happy if they even get attention. Do intensive research, there are many startups and small businesses. Avoid the ones who want work done for free at all cost.
    • Degree is different to actual experience - get some from anywhere you can.
    • Don't be discouraged. The process is depressing and everyone has to go through it. Its sometimes a numbers game and luck. I landed a job in my field after 15 years, I worked in an unrelated field to support myself. The only mistake is to stop trying. Failing is ok, learn from it.
    • Create an online portfolio where you show your work. Market and promote your skills. Have idols and follow them and make derivatives of their work and give them credit.
    • Clean online profile, happy smiling face when someone searches you. Don't talk about sensitive issues online if you are active about a cause that is controversial. Recruiters search you online and they want a positive image for their company. They have all kinds of clients. Being noone online would help as you have not established yourself yet.
    • Keep learning, be open and publish what you've learnt online on some platform. It shows that your interest in the field.
    • Don't demand high salary as a starter. Make your offer lower than the market but never for free. Learning and gaining experience is your first priority.
  • qwerty on 01/03/2020 - 08:10
    +2

    Volunteer work

  • pinkfong on 01/03/2020 - 08:26
    +1

    join in some girls coding club for networking and coding event to keep you up to date.
    find some volunteer or paid freelance job which help build up your resume.
    make your own work portfolio such as website or application that demonstrate your skill.
    sit on the programming certification like the microsoft certification and etc.

  • BigBirdy on 01/03/2020 - 08:42
    +9

    If you’re not getting an interview, it’s your application. As @hyaspty said, your application is probably being pre-filtered by software looking for key words re the position. Review your CV and how you write your job specific cover letters (or whatever they’re called now). They should focus on the job’s key selection criteria. FYI, I’m retired from long career in software dev industry (Monash Comp Sci grad), and have a daughter in electronic engineering … being female is in your favour. Employers want gender balance, not a boys club. Persist, and good luck

  • quirki on 01/03/2020 - 09:04
    +2

    Don't do bootcamps or a master's degree. Here's what I look for:

    • Are you a genuinely curious individual? Do you have any hobby projects/interesting things that you are working on?
    • +++ if you have an article/blog post with implementation details on the things you work on, talking me through bits of code or some gotchas you faced.
    • +++ contribution to FOSS.

    Some general pointers:

    • Since you are looking to just get your feet wet, be open-minded about languages and where in the stack you will be working in. But pick a pet language and do a deep dive.
    • I personally find most IT/product meetups quite counterproductive, kind of like those self-help courses where people turn up to feel good about themselves. The exceptions are deep-tech meetups.
  • askme69 on 01/03/2020 - 09:19
    +1

    Try overseas.

    • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 10:13
      +1

      I would definitely do that. Do companies recruit grads for international jobs.

  • brendanm on 01/03/2020 - 09:22

    Have you ever had any job?

    • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 09:37

      I have a worked fulltime for 5 years.

      • brendanm on 01/03/2020 - 18:45
        +1

        Well if you are as good as you say, your resume or interview technique must suck.

        • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 20:19
          +1

          Sorry 5 years in an unrelated field.

  • TheBird on 01/03/2020 - 09:26
    +1

    I am a female so am worried that it may be the reason why I'm finding it so difficult

    Very few care these days. Especially now when it's a sellers market.

    Where are you?
    What languages?

    When getting started:
    1) Network. (I know a guy who knows a guy (in your case, a gal) Employers are on the hunt. For me, knowing people who can refer you is the number one way to get a job.
    2) Contribute to decent open source projects.

    Do whatever it takes to get your foot in the door. It's easier once you're in.

    • Ghost47 on 02/03/2020 - 12:50
      +2

      1) Network. (I know a guy who knows a guy (in your case, a gal) Employers are on the hunt. For me, knowing people who can refer you is the number one way to get a job.

      It's absolutely pathetic IMO but this is the easiest way to get a job. Ask a friend or your parents or a relative. It's sad that people can get jobs through connections rather than actual merit, but it's an avenue for many in this country.

  • Gmetal on 01/03/2020 - 09:35
    +6

    To understand better, what types of company are you applying for? IT services, SaaS etc?

    Google, Microsoft, Canva, Atlassian etc? What interview stages are you getting to?

    I'm an engineer working at a large multinational software company, and regularly interview graduate engineers, having come through the program myself a few years back. I'm sad to hear you've had bad experiences with sexism, and I don't doubt them.

    The good news is that most top tier companies have a series of measures in place now to try improve this, and desperately want to improve female representation, especially through the graduate programs etc, and it's getting better. Generally they have requirements for a gender balanced interview panel,and some kind of calibration etc to decrease bias. Feel free to ask the recruiters about what actions the company is taking.

    I'm confused by the comments above talking about being a diversity hire vs merit - I'm not sure any of these people have been involved in tech hiring. It's never like that, that there are legit spots and non legit spots. No one is dropping the bar to hire more females, but if you don't get enough diversity in the interview pool, we know we need to cast a wider net. No one knows if you were a diversity hire or not, because there is no such thing or any similar distinction.

    Tips I can give you to get through coding interviews: have good examples of your projects and think about how to articulate them, especially ones that involve team work.

    Read up on the companies values, and make sure you understand and can articulate what you like about their company and what you can bring to the team.

    Make sure you also have good coding interview skills, and practice those problems heavily. Some companies like Google weight this very heavily, but all of them will have a coding interview component, which is very different from coding by yourself. Practice as much as you can. The book how to crack the coding interview is a good resource.

    Happy to answer any other questions you have.

    • Clear on 01/03/2020 - 09:40
      +7

      Diversity hire is a very real thing in the other IT industries like MSPs for example. There are a lot of them that push the whole "we have women in IT" marketing around the place big time.

      • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 09:46

        How do you know they are diversity hires? Incompetent men are hired too. Poor hiring decisions can be made anytime.

        • Clear on 01/03/2020 - 09:52
          +5

          That's the industry I work in and we all know each other.

          There's no denying incompetence is hired frequently regardless of gender.

        • trapper on 03/03/2020 - 12:55
          +1

          Diversity hire doesn't mean you go out and hire incompetent people.

          But it does mean if you have 10 great applicants and one happens to be female then she is getting the job.

          • wyrmy on 03/03/2020 - 18:21

            @trapper: Well.. true for the first part and mostly true for second. In some cases with 10 great applicants and 1 competant but less than great female there is a chance the female gets higher consideration where the team has a buffer for shaping her into a great employee. OP is the only one who went as far as calling a diversity hire incompetent.

            Diversity is a strong KPI for people leaders in some positions.

        • sakurashu on 03/03/2020 - 14:09

          If the ratio of genders hired isn't at all representative of the graduating class ratio - then it's probably diversity hires

    • Gmetal on 01/03/2020 - 09:44

      Adding a few more pointers I thought of:

      Grades & resume might help get you through the recruiter screen, but that's it, after that no one I know considers them. I don't even read resumes when doing the technical screen, I think they are very misleading for technical ability.

      So optimize your resume to be sharp and clear assuming a recruiter will read them, but after that when the developers are doing tech interviews make sure you communicate clearly, and show your thinking and problem solving process. Show me you understand algorithms and the trade offs, don't assume I know you understand because you got a HD.

  • greyeye on 01/03/2020 - 09:45
    +1

    1 apply for anywhere. Be willing to relocate to other suburb, even other city (wouldnt recomment regional town, but other capital cities)
    2 20+ is nothing, if you see a low paying job with 30% match or even 10%, just apply. (eg 40k-50k job)
    3 make sure you write cover letter to suit why the role is suitable. doesnt need a full re-write but portion of it.
    4 keep a folder/list of application you made.
    5 XYZ advertising for Java/C# grad role, but you dont know java/c#? just apply. it's a grad role, they dont expect you to know a lot, as long as you can start pickup, you should be fine. (but if you do get an interview, i recommend you to learn at least setup IDE an compile hello world)
    6 there is a forum (whirlpool, https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum/136) discussing grad positions. if you're close to graduate and have ok grade, you should apply to them as well. (also doesnt your use have careers advisor?)

    and dont do boot camp, you have a degree.(or close to have one)
    and unless you wish to continue education, having master will not improve your chance of employment.

    lastly, if you're keen on js
    react based page + react native mob app are the biggest trend in JS area, nodeJS with express are widely used and well recognised.
    good luck

    • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 10:00
      -1

      Thanks! Do grad really start on 40k? That seems very low for someone with a technical qualification. My last job was 80k, so it would be a big drop.

      • zeomega on 02/03/2020 - 00:48

        Good luck trying to get 80k as a grad in IT unless it's in one of the major IT companies and a limelight hire.

      • akura on 02/03/2020 - 13:21
        +2

        Depends where but the larger corps And well funded/established startups and techs will probably be around the $50-60k package mark. $40k would be much smaller firms. $80k is outside anything I’ve seen

      • Abaddon on 02/03/2020 - 14:41

        I wouldn't be surprised if it's less. The company is taking a lot of risk and investing a lot in training for a graduate (who may well leave after 12 months for more money, dream role, etc).

        As a graduate, you need to be pretty flexible (you mentioned interning for free remember) especially if you have a target location/role.

        I started as a Software Engineering graduate (i.e. Computer Science++) on under 30K in an ancient technology I still have nitemares about. Because it got me working and gave me great experience (it was also close to home, in a rural location).

      • flametornado on 04/03/2020 - 21:17

        … Atlassaian is 80+k a year with shares on top of that. Most grad debs I know are making North of 100k after a year here. This is fairly recent, but when I started the base was 75k and 20k worth of shares.

        That being said if you don't make it to a big company I would expect 50k or so. Start ups may offer a lot of equity to balance things out.

    • peterpeterpumpkin on 05/03/2020 - 11:05

      Years ago I embraced React Native and was shocked at how bad all the demos looked and performed. In October 2018 I finally gave in to the Flutter hype and was shocked at how much better everything worked and looked out of the box. Being new it lacked a lot of the third-party libraries and big backers you'd find in React Native back then, but for basic apps the only real sticking point in making the switch was deciding on a state management approach.

      Maybe React Native has improved since then.

  • Numlock on 01/03/2020 - 09:54
    +5

    Take advantage of your gender!

    In the first line of your intro to your resume say you are a dedicated and technical minded WOMAN!!!! Put a photo of yourself in your resume if you have to. lol

  • Lockdude on 01/03/2020 - 10:17
    +2

    There's a lot of things it could be. I work in a similar industry and have hired people in the past. Happy to look over your resume if that'd help, PM me.

    If you don't feel like giving personal details out to a random stranger on the internet (fair enough) then look for someone in the real world you can ask. Look for a recruitment agency who helps improve your CV, not that just want easy money.

    It could be weak cover letters, it could be a hard to read CV, it could be a lack of internships while at uni, it could be a saturated market in the areas you're applying, it could be sexism, it could just be bad luck. It's too hard to say without knowing your situation better.

    Offer is there if you'd like my help, if not, best advice I can give is find someone who can give you assistance :)

    Best of luck, I'm sure you'll do a great job fit whoever gives you a chance.

  • techlead on 01/03/2020 - 10:21

    I would argue its actually easier to get into the computing field being a female nowadays due to diversity. A lot of company specifically hire women to balance out their teams.

    Don't be disheartened, just keep going, when I was fresh out of uni, I applied for more than 60 jobs and only got a handful of interviews. I even got rejected for simple data entry jobs, which didn't feel good at the time, but with hindsight, they were actually blessings in disguise.

    Actively ask for feedback if you can, especially if you have progressed in the process and was shortlisted. Then use that feedback to improve your future applications. Check your CV and always tailor your cover letter to the company, don't have a cookie cutter one. Incorporate their values into it to show that you have done your research.

    Just keep trying. Once you get your first job, uni grades aren't worth anything. I'm 7 years out of uni and by my second job, no employer asks for my transcripts, just what degree I have and during the background check, they confirm with the uni. They care more about your achievements in your previous jobs.

    From my observations, you need to have a job while doing masters. If you finish masters with no job experience, it would be very hard for your to find a job and even if you do, it would be a junior one which doesn't require masters. Employers want to hire students with work experience, they don't want someone straight out of uni with no job experience. That's why my first job was in first year uni and I worked part time throughout uni.

    • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 10:42

      You are a techlead after 7 years? That's amazing. I'm hoping to follow that path myself.

      Also how did you get your first job in industry whilst still in uni?

      • techlead on 01/03/2020 - 14:28

        My first job during uni was at a Telstra call centre, then I became a Tech expert at a Telstra store until I graduated. I help people with their phones, have some very funny stories lol.

        My degree was in Finance so I went into a bank, junior role. I like IT, so I learnt on the side, how to code C++ and VBA. Then I started moving towards more IT orientated roles within the bank until I left. I'm in the IT industry without an IT degree. You can learn in many ways, your degree is just a piece of paper which helps you get your first job, all subsequent jobs will be based on what you achievements are. Employers don't care if you got 100 UAI/ATAR or HD average at uni, once you go for experienced roles, they care about what you did and what value you created in your previous roles.

        • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 14:39

          Doesn't it take 20 years or so to become a tech lead. What did you do to get there so fast? It's very impressive.

          Also I'm intending to do a masters and PhD so I probably going to head into research and fields that will expect you to have a relevant qualification. For me I will probably need these qualifications.

          • techlead on 01/03/2020 - 14:42
            +1

            @Sarah11: Not sure where you got 20 years from. It definitely do NOT take 20 years to become a tech lead.

            Have a read of this, its pretty interesting:

            https://medium.com/comparethemarket/a-journey-from-junior-de…

            Its about your achievements, not your tenure. I see a lot of people who are just drifting, they love what they do so they just keep doing the bare minimum in order not to be fired and they stand still. There are people in junior positions to me and are significantly older than me. Maybe they like it that way, happy to stay where they are.

          • Jayzz55 on 01/03/2020 - 18:57
            +1

            @Sarah11: If your goal is to become a tech lead, doing masters and PhD is a long way to achieve your goal.

            Yes you need to have a strong foundation in technical knowledge. But what makes you a tech lead is not just technical skills, but strong experience and people skills.

            Hence, getting your foot in the door and gaining experience is more likely to get you to your goal.

            In the place I work, not everyone wanted to become a tech lead (myself included). Being a tech lead is more involved with bigger business problems and attending a lot of meetings with stakeholders. Whereas there are a lot of people who just happy and prefer to be doing coding and solving day to day technical problems.

            Think of it as a different skills. And unfortunately I think doing masters and PhD takes too long and to contribute similar value to business (low return of investment)

            • Sarah11 on 01/03/2020 - 20:07

              @Jayzz55: Maybe, but truthfully I just love to study. The happiest part of my day is doing a uni assignment, attending a lab or reading a textbook. My previous degree is in physics and I love maths, I'm just obsessed with anything technical. Some people have suggested I go into machine learning research as that is very technical.

              So doing a masters/phd part-time while working fulltime is really just because I love it.

              • Jayzz55 on 01/03/2020 - 20:33

                @Sarah11: It's good that you identify what you love.

                One of the thing about being in this industry (you can see it as a curse or a blessing), there are always new things going on. New research or technology advance that you have to keep up and learn, like machine learning, infrastructure or ops, front end, back end, etc..

                So that's a really good trait to have, and a lot of people in the industry I know share this trait.

                There are a lot of people here and in the industry willing to help. Go reach out in the IT Community like rails girls and ask someone who you can feel comfortable and trust to be your mentor.

                Wish you the best with your job hunting. Keeps your heads up and stay positive!

              • tryagain on 01/03/2020 - 21:07
                +2

                @Sarah11: Maybe a controversial opinion, but from my experience, those who love academia, especially those who pursue it as a career would be and often are pretty average at best working in the industry. A number of things feed into it but a couple are a somewhat of a holier-than-thou attitude, which often means a poor team player and they can also be overly wed to the theory they have learned in university as opposed to what has been shown to work in reality.

                Now I am not saying this is necessarily the case with you, but your inability to take the advice of many here who have suggested you make it known you are a female to improve your prospects makes me think it's a distinct possibility. You can't seem to see past the reality that unlike university, where it is all about grades, employability has much broader considerations. If I was being critical of what you have written here, I would say you come across a little bit like you feel entitled to a role due to your grades, but I am guessing you wouldn't see it that way.

                My suggestion is to get your applications looked at by someone who has employed people, but then actually take on their advice as opposed to arguing why the way you have done it is better. If you truly love academia, then maybe you should investigate it as a vocation.

              • johnno07 on 03/03/2020 - 08:46
                +1

                @Sarah11: If you love maths/CS/efficiency you're going to need to temper your expectations of a junior dev role. The likelyhood of any of this being important in an grad/entry level job is pretty low (there are exceptions, obviously). Time to tech lead is definitely not 20 years. I think 7 seems to be about right for someone who is on the ball, knows how to sell themselves, has a healthy sense of pragmatism and can actually effectively communicate with other humans (not a skill a lot of devs have). People hiring devs want to know they are practical, not precious about technology X or stack Y, have the ability to work with others, as well as being self-sufficient (i.e. can you figure it out on Google/Stack Overflow before running to your technical leader). I know it's a bit awkward to talk about, but I have to agree with some of the other comments here - the past few years have seen a rise in "quotas" for technical female staff. I was literally turned down for a position (at a major company) a few years ago because I wasn't a girl. I would take advantage of this trend if I were you!

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