Can't Find a Job. Advice?

LSarah11 on 29/02/2020 - 23:06
Last edited 29/02/2020 - 23:25

I'm in the process finishing a computer science degree, and have been actively looking for my first job as a junior software developer, but have not even been able to get a single interview. Lately I have become quite disheartened about my future prospects in the field. At this stage, I would even be willing to take an unpaid internship as I need some experience.

My grades are very strong, I have put a lot of work into my portfolio and am involved in various IT meetups and hackathons, I am a female so am worried that it may be the reason why I'm finding it so difficult (perception that women can't code is still common unfortunately). I do have a males name though, so may not be the actual reason, not sure.

What do you think I should do to increase my chances of finding work? Masters degree? Bootcamp?

Education & Work

Comments

  • apenman on 02/03/2020 - 15:40
    +1

    Hi,

    Some suggestions I haven't already seen on this list-
    If you truly are interested in a Masters/PHD you should be looking at quantitative developer roles in Finance. Goldman Sachs is going to hire 2000 quantitative developers over the next few quarters. People who know how to code (Python is flavour of the month) and can understand the business side are going to be in high demand over the next decade.

    If you start with a Masters in Mathematical Finance (each uni calls it something different but its Options/Derivative theory along with coding for pricing) you should be able to basically name your price by the time you finish you PHD. If you are happy to travel even better .. Europe and the US is where the money is.

    There are lots of roles out there for highly technical people, and there is a dearth of female talent the further up the education ladder you go, so definitely being female would give you an advantage.

    but do
    - Get the concepts right .. Black Scholes, Itos lemma etc
    - Being able to pick up a paper and implement it is the real skill I think.
    - ML is really useful, but I do not think it needs a degree. It should be something you pick up from Udemy.
    - I have never been to a hackathon, I guess if you want to win AWS Deep racer it is worthwhile.

    • Sarah11 on 05/03/2020 - 23:34

      I want thinking more computational mathematics. No real interest in finance.

  • Vind1cator on 02/03/2020 - 15:52

    @sarah11
    Try applying to Liberty Financial, they have a big tech department and are actively trying to promote women in tech.

    • [Deactivated] on 02/03/2020 - 18:04
      -2

      The OP is a dude apparently 🤔

  • dwillia on 02/03/2020 - 16:34

    "I'm in the process finishing a computer…………."

    In a tough competitive market, someone lacking attention to detail might make all the difference

    • Numlock on 05/03/2020 - 15:21

      PRogrammers aren't paid to have great grammar. Don't be petty.

  • Inzo on 02/03/2020 - 17:06

    I know my org hires graduates in game & software design (work for a gaming company (as in money gaming, not video)), and they go through their candidates up to mid year, kick of interviews 2nd half of the year to line up for either a Q4 or a Q1 following year start.

    That said, we're based in Sydney, so unless your planning on moving / crashing with friends maybe we're not the "dream job", but if your work is as good as you say, and you can interview ok, you should find something.

  • [Deactivated] on 02/03/2020 - 17:06

    Other tip is consider what you have traceable to you online. Some companies do social media searches of potential hires and will reject you for liking a tweet with a swear word in it.

  • pulpfiction on 02/03/2020 - 17:10

    @Sarah there are some amazing comments here, unfortunately the balance is socking and loaded with bias. Before this gets negged away, DM me. I run a consulting firm and we do a lot of work with tech companies - so might be able to share some ideas and do some introductions.

    It's really hard starting out, but keep at it. Once your foot is in the door you'll be laughing. Good luck!

    Edit: The best advice I've seen here so far is getting Cloud certified (and serverless) and getting feedback on your cv and approach from anyone who will listen. Also, MeetUps are good, but also go where people are the hiring managers (so delivery meetups, leadership meetups etc).

  • crashloaded on 02/03/2020 - 17:29

    Gentlemen, from this day forward you will all refer to me by the name Betty.

    But isn't Betty a woman's name?

  • [Deactivated] on 02/03/2020 - 17:30
    -1

    It's your business why you chose a science type it degree, but to answer the question, the market doesn't really want or need those type of skills now, however what it does need is:

    Engineers, safety supervisors, consultants in hr, (yes I know people who couldn't turn a light switch on as IT he specialist)social services, community services, (Australia is mostly a service country, and if they want the skills you have they can out source it, like they did with the Centrelink robot debt issue)
    psychology, policing, law, certificate 3 librarian, certificate 4 web developer, certificate 4 human resources, 3 year electronic apprenticeship (since the government is reforming TAFE in its respected parts to more ways to receive a more privatised path, those unable to find work can still down grade to a certificate industry standard national frame work)even tho I'm proficient in programming, I would not want a computer science degree not in this age, unless you're exceptional at algorithm self learning ai.

    • Alley Cat on 02/03/2020 - 18:31

      We still need scientists. They are the ones upgrading the encryption standards, ML/AI, consumer behaviour modelling and I'm sure there's other stuff too… They make the little black boxes we don't care about, so we only need to get the API calls going. You can succeed in any field, there's always someone that stands out, but it might not look like a risk-free voyage to the outsiders.

    • JimmyB99 on 04/03/2020 - 19:33
      -1

      You do realise a computer science isn't a "science degree"?

      • [Deactivated] on 04/03/2020 - 21:48
        +1

        Explain

  • [Deactivated] on 02/03/2020 - 17:52

    I am a female so am worried that it may be the reason why I'm finding it so difficult
    I do have a males name though.

    Is your gender in your resume? If not i would put it in there clearly, so they do in fact know you're a chick.
    Many corporate and government jobs have a 50/50 hiring requirement now.

  • Bold Eagle on 02/03/2020 - 18:37
    +1

    Many Federal Govt. Depts do a STEM intake each year, for example;
    https://www.apsjobs.gov.au/s/job-search
    https://www.apsjobs.gov.au/s/job-details?Id=a055m000000Iuk4A…

    Fed Govt Graduate programs:
    https://www.australia.gov.au/information-and-services/jobs-a…

    There are also State Govt jobs:
    https://www.australia.gov.au/information-and-services/jobs-a…
    They can do graduate intakes, QLD for example;
    https://smartjobs.qld.gov.au/jobtools/jncustomsearch.searchR…

    I think you might be over thinking things and getting unduly anxious.

    You just needs the right resources and the right keywords and you will then start to generate meaningful results.

    Consider Fed and or State and or Local Govt.

  • squaredonut on 02/03/2020 - 19:28
    +1

    To be honest, a grad program might not be what you want if you are after a junior developer role. I was pretty disheartened as well, got knocked back a lot but I landed a grad role, didn't last over 2 years and realised it's just a BS low paying job and found a developer position. At the end of the day, the developer position and the industry as a whole thrives on concrete experience. If you are independent and you don't need the hand holding of a grad position, you shouldn't need to worry just yet.

    Grad positions are for people who aren't entirely sure what they want to do, but it sounds like you have you heart set on development, then that's pretty easy, spend the remainder of the year on 1 or 2 personal projects that you demonstrates you've learned XYZ framework well, and also maybe see if you can contribute to some open source projects on github.

    This will be adequate for you to apply directly for junior dev positions and for them to even put you through an interview.

  • Numlock on 02/03/2020 - 21:28

    Where do you live? I can speak to some hiring managers in Sydney if you're interested in working with software for a high volume medical device or cloud computing.

    • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 23:03

      I'm in Melbourne. I will be finished at the end of the year and free to move. Do you have a graduate program?

    • darkyjaz95 on 04/03/2020 - 00:06

      resmed?

      • Numlock on 04/03/2020 - 00:51

        Do you want to say something about that company? If so, PM me.

  • malich on 02/03/2020 - 21:39
    +6

    I hire commerce grads on the regular (about 2 every 3 months) and I'm still amazed by the level of laziness with a lot of applicants.

    The problems I find are:

    • No cover letter - if you're not doing a cover letter you're robbing yourself of the ability to explain why you want the job in question.

    • Not personalising the application, resume & cover letter, to the job. Instead of applying for 20 jobs, spend your time researching 1 firm and explain in the cover letter how you can add value

    -Expecting $100k straight out of uni. I'm sure there might be industries where this is possible, but for us we need to take a fully qualified person away from their work to help train you. It's expensive to onboard new staff and that cost means that you're not going ro make bank in your first couple of years. Fwiw, we pay award in the first year.

    -We find applicants put the 'feel of prestige' over real opportunity. We often hire employees at the big banks after they've done 2 years in their systems because they realise that it's their prospects for progression are limited. We are a smaller, but growing, company. Growing companies are where you want to be.

    -Lastly, don't be afraid of calling companies to seek feedback on why you weren't successful. You might garner some valuable feedback (albeit many will give you cliche responses).

    • Numlock on 02/03/2020 - 22:39
      -4

      The problems I find are:
      No cover letter - if you're not doing a cover letter you're robbing yourself of the ability to explain why you want the job in question.

      Jesus…cover letters are so pointless

      • try2bhelpful on 02/03/2020 - 22:48
        +4

        Actually they aren’t. The cover letter is where you see the whole person, the CV is the list of ingredients.

      • malich on 02/03/2020 - 22:58
        +3

        As a hirer, I disagree.

      • netjock on 05/03/2020 - 10:41

        As a grad you need it to stand out.

        Experienced candidate with good skill set most likely not.

    • Canberran on 03/03/2020 - 00:25

      Pretty much the same as my response haha

    • Ghost47 on 05/03/2020 - 18:14

      Would have been nice for you to see my applications when I was applying for grad programs.

      I don't expect a $100k salary (that kind of entitlement is absurd), I tailor my cover letters and resume for the job, distinction average, had two internships at uni and got rejected from heaps of applications.

  • Milk tea on 02/03/2020 - 21:39
    +1

    I actually think being a female would be an advantage in your industry as there are so few of them.

  • darkyjaz95 on 02/03/2020 - 22:07
    +4

    Hi Sarah,

    I finished my CS degree in 2018 at Monash and spent an entire year finding a job. I had okay grades, experience in competitive programming, a research internship in a top institute (Max Planck) in Germany and a first authored conference paper but I DIDN'T HAVE any web dev experiences, personal projects nor hackathon projects or any other kind of work experiences.

    I submitted more than a thousand applications through Seek, Jora and LinkedIn over the past year and were rejected by many non-tech companies (banking, wed development, etc), you know those generic rejection emails. These companies tends to pay very little and have zero interest in anything other than your work experiences (I didn't have any). The only few offers I got were all around ~60k so I didn't accept any of them.

    I encourage you to apply to companies that actually care about hiring quality CS grads (eg Akuna,Optiver,Google,Amazon etc, all situated in Sydney and pays very well) as they DON'T really care about your work experiences, as long as you meet the min job requirements they would give you a chance at applying. For these companies you generally have to complete an online coding assessment, followed by a telephone coding interview and finally multiple rounds of onsite coding and sys design interviews. So if you are strong in algorithms but have no experience like me you should try to apply at one of those places. That's how I got my 90k grad job.

    edit: Resume service agencies are bullshit. I think they are a waste of money and companies like Google don't accept resumes through third party services.

    Hope this helps.

  • tripix on 02/03/2020 - 23:23

    Would you be willing to move to another city? (Brisbane)

    Are you interested in certain software development?

    Do you have a dealbreaker language? As in, you won’t do certain languages?

    Edit: asking because I work for a large software company that is always on the lookout for upcoming graduates.

    • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 23:12

      At the end of the year, I could move. I'm pretty flexible with whatever is on offer.

  • RJK on 02/03/2020 - 23:47
    -2

    Honestly make it very clear that you're female in your application and you'll be guaranteed to get a job far sooner than your fellow graduates, as you'll only competing with a small number of other females regardless of your level of competence.

    Leave the victim mentality for the males who actually have to compete against hundreds or thousands of other applicants on merit alone.

  • Canberran on 03/03/2020 - 00:22

    How many pages is your CV? Keep it short, 1 page preferred and two pages maximum.

    Also, each CV should be tailored to the job you're applying for, highlighting the skills that the job is advertising for.

    A lot of companies will just use a program to only filter resumes that fit the criteria.

    If they ask for a Cover Letter, it's your chance to go into greater details, but should be no more than one page.

    I know of one person who consistently applied for the same job, but he has a spelling error so they never even looked at it.

    Finally, try following up with some of your applications to enquire why you weren't successful. It might even place your resume back into a merit pool.

  • drfuzzy on 03/03/2020 - 00:41

    If you are not getting interviews, your cover letter, CV, and possibly portfolio (if applicable) are not strong enough.

    Iterate and improve this. Have several professionals assist.

  • baskets2k on 03/03/2020 - 01:06

    I work in a small tech company which doesn't have a gender quota but just hired a woman in a tech role simply because she was the best candidate and have a great attitude which fits the company culture.

    Looking for a job is hard, especially for the first job so you do need to work hard for it. As you haven't graduated yet, use the time to your advantage to increase your chance of employment. I would suggest at least do a couple of things:
    1. Seek mentors through your university to nurture relationships. While you won't be asking for a job directly but if a role comes up you would probably be on their shortlist.
    2. You may need to find out which skills you need to focus on by looking at job descriptions in the market. Ideally you have a portfolio to showcase to prospective employers
    3. Create a Linkedin profile. Another way to showcase your skills and talent. Some companies now advertise solely on Linkedin.

    All the best with the search and study!

  • iamapineapple on 03/03/2020 - 01:53

    You've already received some great advice on here so I will only add my 2 cents - I know your pain having graduated 2 years ago and now working in the medical field - although we are fortunate to have job stability, each of the 'top 4' hospitals in Melbourne receive >1000 applications each, locally and interstate, which is then filtered down to 60-70 positions at each hospital.

    If all else fails, try the good old technique of turning up to the company with your CV and CL printed and handing it into the company directly, asking to speak to some sort of manager when you arrive. You never know where it might lead you, and is at least one small way to help you stick out.

  • RefusdClassification on 03/03/2020 - 06:10
    -1

    How to get a good job in Australia?

    Simple. Claim you belong to a priviledged minority group. Some sort of LGBTQ + Indigenous ancestry; possibly add in a disability like Asperger's Autism. Corporations (& government bureaucracries) now are full of woke management of human resources officers.

    • [Deactivated] on 03/03/2020 - 21:53

      That's genius, wrong but the only way, since autism is broad it's impossible to diagnose in adults, and the waiting for diagnosis is years.

      And it can be anyone not disabled.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/03/2020 - 15:54
      -3

      It's a running joke at my workplace that all you have to do is identify as a gay, muslim, transgender female with aboriginal heritage who suffers from autism to become the CEO of BHP. The sad part is they're not wrong…

  • paulw54jrn on 03/03/2020 - 09:06
    +2

    Hey Sarah.

    Shoot me a DM if you are serious (and based in Sydney..)

    We have grad program starts at 90k (much better compared when I started at 40k..)

    • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 22:49

      Just activated my emails and sent you a message

  • emblurr on 03/03/2020 - 09:41

    I work for a mid size IT company in Melbourne (800+ people), we always seem to be hiring developers.

    • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 22:50

      What company is that? I assume you have a grad program? Thanks

      • emblurr on 04/03/2020 - 13:42

        DWS

  • dogboy on 03/03/2020 - 10:16

    Females in the IT industry have the biggest advantage you can get already - being female. Worked in the IT industry for 25 years and never heard anyone ever say that women are not as good at coding as guys. What I have seen though is every girl's resume go to the top of the pile because of diversity hiring in a male dominated industry. Maybe you need to make it clearer that you are a girl on your CV.

  • TimApple on 03/03/2020 - 10:18
    +1

    First job is always the hardest. I was also a computer science student and had difficulties. Keep at it, eventually you'll land on something. Get someone to check on your resume or do internships.

  • firestormx on 03/03/2020 - 10:32
    +1

    If you are not getting any interviews or assessments, your resume and cover letters are most likely the problem.
    - Customise your resume and write a brand new cover letter for each application.
    - Research the company thoroughly before writing your cover letter and customising your resume.
    - If you're still at uni, they should have career advisors who can check your resume and cover letters.

  • RichardD on 03/03/2020 - 10:46

    I work for IBM. Some of our best employees are graduates and they are hired as interns prior to graduation. (They here part-time for a
    year then leave to do exams) Some of them met the IBM CEO Ginni Rometty last year in Sydney.

    On my floor of developers we have a team with only have 2 guys rest are women. Not the norm but
    it shows that some our most talented are female.

    https://www.ibm.com/au-en/employment/internship.html
    https://top100grademployers.com.au/2019/#finalist=afr-top100… (we are no 3)

    For an idea how a graduate progresses one of the people I work with (and admire) is Holly W
    who has a great career profile.

    I can pm you her public link in linkedin on request if this helps.

    • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 22:51

      That would be great. I've activated my messages. Thanks

    • Cynicaloflife on 04/03/2020 - 15:07

      I would advise against IBM unless you apply for the Gold Coast or Canberra roles (I was an IBM grad). Majority of IBM is GBS (roles in Sydney and Melbourne).

      Holly W works for IBM Security (Gold Coast). Their roles open in April or middle of the year.

      The one that you want to apply for is IBM Australia development lab.

    • sakurashu on 06/03/2020 - 14:00

      Holly was killing it even at University though and would have had no trouble getting a job elsewhere in Brisbane!

  • tomvghs on 03/03/2020 - 10:53
    +1

    Hey Sarah11,

    As many suggested without work ex and straight out of Uni the best point of start is Grad programs. I started my IT career also through a grad program after almost a yr of searching for jobs. Grad programs are the best place because the company that hires you looks after you and will help in your career growth. They should have the resources to give you the training, mentoring etc. In saying that, of course keep applying

    Other things you should consider is definitely some relevant industry certifications. Also have a LinkedIn profile and apply to some of the recruitment companies and be in touch with recruiters who can also help place you.
    Another important key word in the world of IT and software development is Devops. A lot of the companies are now focused on cloud and devops is an important function that is being in demand. Consider doing some Devops certs from AWS and/or Azure/Microsoft or general Devops engineer certs to add to your qualifications. Also learn on Agile methodologies, an important topic in IT interviews. I work in cyber security which is a niche area; as you are aware IT is a very large field, so always make sure when you apply you have a niche expertise to offer.

    Most of all please DO NOT be discouraged about your gender. If it all, being a female might give an advantage because companies want to maintain the diversity numbers especially in the IT field.
    I wish you all the best!!

  • prayforchristchurch on 03/03/2020 - 11:53
    +2

    Sarah11 Happy to check and help with your CV

  • christopher8827 on 03/03/2020 - 11:54

    If you find a job… build your own job. Try freelancing as a developer or teaming up with your classmates to form a software dev shop together?

  • trapper on 03/03/2020 - 11:58
    +1

    I am a female so am worried that it may be the reason why I'm finding it so difficult

    lol, just no. If anything that gives you an advantage. Females developers always in demand to improve the sex ratio, all else equal we are picking the female every time.

    • POSITIVEVIBESONLY on 03/03/2020 - 15:52
      +2

      There are so many software programs and companies looking for female devs. There are even only female grad positions where the competition is much less than regular positions.

  • curious101 on 03/03/2020 - 13:44

    No response from the OP, hoping that there was some update :)

    • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 22:44

      Sorry, just going through all the message. There is a huge amount of advice here.

  • zawarudo22 on 03/03/2020 - 13:45
    +1

    Having to move to Melbourne after submitting 90+ resumes (with 2+ years prior experience as Dev) and get only 3 interviews are indeed discouraging.
    Whereas in Brisbane I had 4 interviews with 10+ resumes submitted.
    Can't imagine how Junior/Grad roles would fare in as it is a competitive place here in Melbourne.

    • hasher22 on 03/03/2020 - 21:47

      I am in the same boat in Sydney as a graphic designer

      I have roughly 1.5 years in professional experience, 1 year in freelance experience, a double degree in media and design and I graduated in DEC 2019. After handing in 80+ applications, 4 got back to me, 2 with an interview.

      Junior/Grad roles I apply for, I easily have 70+ competition.

  • krisspy on 03/03/2020 - 14:10

    Getting a masters degree without solid experience is the worst you can do. On top of being under qualified employers will also think you're overqualified.

    Looks for a crap company to start with like datacom or something, watch how successful you'll become after showing on your resume that you're currently employed.

  • akataylor on 03/03/2020 - 17:08
    +2

    I work for large, very well known tech company based in Melbourne (and previously worked for another very well known one, with a large office in Melbourne) and involved with hiring engineers.

    DM me your resume.

    • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 22:53

      Hi akataylor,

      Sorry I tried to send you a pm, but it says your account is not accepting new conversations. Thanks for offering to help.

      • akataylor on 04/03/2020 - 17:18

        My bad, fixed. Please try again.

  • cmilano8 on 03/03/2020 - 17:16
    +2

    As a fellow female also in IT, some of the advice I can give you (though most have been mentioned here):
    - have exposure across many development stacks and frameworks to know which you prefer.
    - knowing if you'd prefer building native apps, web apps, desktop apps, or just websites i.e. Wordpress or other CMSes.
    - experience is to acclimatise yourself to the company/corporate workplace environment and culture - this is highly beneficial towards your soft skill building. As you know, hard skill is only a third of the tools you need to succeed :)
    - get a LinkedIn profile - and speak to recruiters/agencies, who may have opportunities for you. 9/10 of the time they would be thrilled to schedule a phone conversation with you.
    - grad program is your best bet for learning. If salary is a requirement, I'm guessing you may find opportunities at small businesses who may require IT support of varying capacity. I also recommend getting short-term contract works where applicable - working on different projects with different people frequently can only mean good exposure to other cultures and tech requirements.

    I would recommend against getting a Masters degree - especially without any prior experience. I've hired several interns who had no working experience but have Masters degree - they didn't make the cut after 3 months.

    You are on the right track when you say you're already attending meetups and going to Hackathons. IT occupation is in high demand so I don't see a reason why you wouldn't get hired eventually!

    Best of luck!

  • xkcd12345 on 03/03/2020 - 17:48

    Hey, just wanted to say don't give up. January was a pretty competitive period since there's a lot of people competing for the same job. Anyway, here's a few pointers:
    1. Push all your projects to github and make sure the link to github is on your resume.
    2. Polish your LinkedIn profile, and connect to as many people as you can. Doesn't matter if you don't personally know them. Just make sure its from the industry you want to apply in.
    3. When applying, try and contact someone from within the company. This will increase your chances of your resume being read.
    4. Join this community and go to their workshops. They really help out women in coding: https://www.facebook.com/MusesCodeJS/
    5. Don't do a grad degree unless you plan on going to the US. It's not a requirement for most jobs, and it will make you miserable and increase your debts. If it's startup kind of environment you can learn on the job most of the time.

  • flametornado on 03/03/2020 - 20:29

    @Sarah11 did you apply to the atlassaian grad program?

    • Sarah11 on 03/03/2020 - 22:46
      -3

      No, I haven't heard great things about them, but I will probably apply anyway

      • flametornado on 04/03/2020 - 21:28

        Like pretty much all workplaces it's not perfect but it's pretty good. It does depend on your team a bit. Atlassaian is growing very quickly and it has some scaling and growing pains. But it also has lots of opportunities.

        I started as a grad there almost 5 years ago and I don't plan to leave any time soon.

        I'm happy to answer any questions you might have.

  • hasher22 on 03/03/2020 - 21:43
    +2

    Experience > Degree. Experience trumps everything then degree is next.

    There are more grads than jobs and more grads each year.

    I've finished uni in DEC 2019, applied over 80+ and only heard back from 4. Out of that 4, only 2 wanted an interview. You're competing with alot of grads for a job with 1 position.

    It's tough, really tough. Keep applying…..

  • FittyFitty on 03/03/2020 - 21:49

    Johnny, is that you?

  • ldq on 03/03/2020 - 22:05

    If you are an AU citizen, have a look at Defence jobs, especially if you are willing to relocate to ACT. Major CIOG contractors are always hiring at all levels in all IT subfields.

  • benjabot on 03/03/2020 - 22:09
    +1

    Hello, I graduated from computer science 2 years ago, located in Western Sydney at the time. I applied to many Junior/Grad roles and had no shortage of offers, it came to a point i even got an angry voice mail from a recruitment company that i did not pick them! Now i only missed out on the graduation with honors by .02 GPA (Still blame the uni for this, but chasing it up is pointless in the long run) so only had a 5.98. This is how i think i got so many offers.

    I spent a couple of months working on a quite in depth personal project that involved Responsive design, complex javascript, a backed, creating API's etc so i could create mobile versions if required with the same back end. All of this was pushed to Git hub. I also registered a domain and made a portfolio website showing all of my extra curriculum work during university. Some of this involved developing a "hub" for a university group that built a F-SAE racecar, with features such as messaging, virtual paper work trails, meetings, calendars etc from scratch. I also did alot of programming for the robotics group at the uni and even made custom interface software for a 90's robotic arm.

    My point is most decent graduates are all on a similar level of knowledge and ability, Especially when you learn so much more in 2 months of full time work then your entire degree. What they want to see is your ability to go above and beyond and your interest in such a role. Going to hackathons and meetups is a step above doing nothing, but in the end if i never read but visit the library occasionally, it does not sell my hate for reading as something i love doing. I did also notice you committed to some open source projects, but again that is a step behind of those with portfolios of custom projects.

    However, i must say none of the above is important if you do not have both a good quality resume and a well written cover letter specifically for the job. Now my understanding is (different for every company with exceptions of course) they will take a look at your resume, if you have obvious lies or a poor resume, they will not bother reading your cover letter. Were they interested on your skills and experience in your resume? Well now is your chance to sell yourself in your cover letter. Make sure this is written from scratch for every job and covers there needs! This is basically an advertisement why they should hire you. From here, if they like what they say, they will look into any portfolios, personal websites / github accounts you have sent along.

    The company i did end up getting employed in had ~120 staff in North Sydney, mostly programmers, and had a very good mix of male to females. I wish you the best of luck in getting a job!

    • Sarah11 on 04/03/2020 - 01:06

      This is really helpful. Were these all uni groups that you worked with? Unfortunately I work long hours (25-30 a week) so find that I can't collaborate with other cs students as much as I like. For me, meetups and hackathons are usually more convenient.

  • syousef on 04/03/2020 - 00:12

    If you're not getting to the interview stage get some professional advice about your resume.

    I've been working in IT for almost 3 decades, and I have never heard a male software developer say that women can't code. My first job was a company in which literally half the coders were female and they tended to be more business focused than the guys. I did hear that prior to my entry into that company there were some very sexist male coders, but they were gone when I got there.

    One of the best 3 coders in my B. Sc. course was female. No one ever questioned it that I saw. They'd be foolish to, as she was quite talented and driven.

    I have seen plenty of hiring where the mandate is to hire women to address unequal numbers.

    Annecdotes are just that, and experiences will differ. But assuming you're not being hired because your female in the current climate is probably counter-productive and likely incorrect. Check that resume first.

  • MND on 04/03/2020 - 00:13
    +1

    As its your first role in a workplace apply for any Job where you can use your skills to make your tasks faster, say an office, clerical role, data entry. Then use your skills to make your job easier i.e like a simple macro, or making suggestions on how a system could produce more metrics if some additional data is recorded.

    When you are being noticed as performing your job efficiently, you can mention that you are a programmer; show the manager who asks how you do your job quicker and how it can make others jobs faster. Next thing you know you will end up in that development role. You may think that these roles are beneath you, but when your a programmer you will be requested to streamline such tasks / processes and who better to choose than someone whom has worked at the coalface, and had the necessary skills to take that work place to another level.

    I've done it before, and just slide into that job you want with the skills you have!

    Once you have that experience, then move to your next job while you in a job. It will be that much easier to secure roles.

    • Sarah11 on 04/03/2020 - 00:28
      -1

      Is it easy to go from a receptionist to a software engineer? Should I tell them my intention at the beginning?

  • ddab568 on 04/03/2020 - 08:48

    Hi OP,

    I'm also a female software engineer. I graduated in 2013 believing I'd never get a career in software development because my grades weren't amazing, I was under-confident and I was turned down from many positions. That was 7 years ago, I've had 4 jobs since and I'm now a technical lead at a top tier company.

    My first advice to you is take what you can get (if you're having trouble being hired). My first job was actually not a software job - it was IT service technician. In that job, I used any time I could to make programs to speed up the manual work of the company. I used that experience to get my 2nd job as a software engineer. Once you've had any work experience, you'll automatically be more advantaged. Even try volunteering if you can.

    Feel free to PM me I'll give you advice and potentially see if I can pull strings and get you a job through some contacts

    • John Kimble on 04/03/2020 - 11:50

      But she doesn't even make the interview, so she can't take what she can get.

      • ddab568 on 04/03/2020 - 13:52
        +1

        As I said, I was in the same position, so I ended up taking an IT job (Not software engineering) just to get my foot in the door. I would also recommend volunteering. I believe after some time OP will surely get any job that will help her get her foot in the door - given it provides her with some software experience. Even an unpaid job. With all the interviewing and hiring I've done, I can say for sure that after uni, we favour any sort of work experience. Grads with no work experience have it the hardest.

        I'm also happy to give OP some feedback on her resume, her approach and potentially recommend her to someone. I guarantee she'll get a job in the near future. I've seen some absolute shocking grads get a job within a few months

      • fartingnuts on 05/03/2020 - 12:16

        She also said she has only applied for 20ish companies. Not surprised he hasn't gotten an interview yet

    • Ghost47 on 05/03/2020 - 18:19

      Feel free to PM me I'll give you advice and potentially see if I can pull strings and get you a job through some contacts

      Whilst it's nice that people are offering this sort of thing, I think it's somewhat unfair.

      We all know it's "who" you know not "what" you know when it comes to getting a job. Maybe when I was applying for grad programs I should have just posted a sob story here instead. Kind of ridiculous that the chances of getting a job on OzBargain could be higher than applying for the actual job itself… but as I said, it's "who" you know.

      • try2bhelpful on 05/03/2020 - 18:49

        It’s always “who” you know. It is why networking is the best way to get on in you career. Once you have a foot in the door, that is when you have to prove your worth - particularly if you have got there with someone’s help. You have to prove they were right to help you. You tend your reputation and cultivate your network.

        • Ghost47 on 05/03/2020 - 19:00

          It is why networking is the best way to get on in you career.

          Whilst I agree that networking is important, there are people in this country who ask mum, dad or a friend for a job. In this case OP is getting offers from randoms on OzBargain just because they use the website (well, they were lurking). I wouldn't call this thread "networking" per se.

          I think that people have to prove themselves even if they didn't get help to get the job, especially new grads.

          And I disagree that it's always "who" you know, there are people who get jobs on their own merit. I didn't know anyone who worked at the company I landed a grad role with, nor did I ask a favour to anyone who gave me the job. I didn't know anyone at the places where I interned either. I think that going through the struggle is important. OP said they've applied for "20+" roles or so.. that's nothing, I applied for 60 at least as a grad and was rejected from everything bar 1. I'm sure plenty of others who are as capable as the OP have also applied for at least "20+", some people probably even 100+, it's just the nature of things now, so many people go to university and get degrees, getting a job after is highly competitive.

          • ddab568 on 06/03/2020 - 09:04

            @Ghost47: I see your point, and maybe I should have phrased "pulling strings" better. It is "unfair" so to speak, I was in your position too when I graduated. I legit could not land a software job so I went for something in IT at a tiny company where I was essentially a glorified receptionist. I was there for a year before I got my first software job.

            In saying that I can't guarantee OP a job. I do feel for her as such, I'm not going to lie, I did feel like an incompetent engineer when I graduated and my confidence was low because I was rejected from a million jobs so I empathise with her. But I can't just get her a job if she's not genuinely a good candidate.

            • try2bhelpful on 06/03/2020 - 10:22
              +1

              @ddab568: Please don’t let the comments put you off offering further investigation. I don’t think OP would see any obligation on you.

          • try2bhelpful on 06/03/2020 - 10:20
            +1

            @Ghost47: Going through “the struggle” is not a virtue, in itself. You don’t have to go through the crucible of not being able to get a job to be better at it once you have one. You are much more likely to get an introduction if you know people than if you don’t; it is just a fact of life. I didn’t write the rules I just exploit them the best I can. If ddab568 saw something in the OPs writings here to indicate they would like to offer a hand then why not? I don’t think either side sees this as any obligation.

            When chloroform was first proposed for childbirth theologians said it was stopping the “natural and physiological forces that the Divinity has ordained us to enjoy or to suffer.” When Queen Victoria got onto it it became general practice. The average woman could do nothing, but the Queen was a different matter.

  • Rochie on 04/03/2020 - 15:27

    I feel a lot of University students (particularly straught out of high school) don't consider the realities of their field of study. Many of these fields are filled with graduates seeking work but not enough work in the field to employ all the graduates. This is one major aspect I think students should consider before diving into 4+ years of study.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/03/2020 - 15:58
      +1

      Tech jobs are a dime a dozen. The issue isn't lack of jobs, it's the lack of jobs at an entry level. If you have 4+ years of experience in the industry then you'll have more job options than you could imagine.

      • whey4000 on 04/03/2020 - 23:11

        Why aren't companies training new employees?

        • try2bhelpful on 04/03/2020 - 23:56
          +1

          Because they are outsourcing the entry level jobs. They need the experienced people to manage the outsourcing process to make sure stuff gets delivered.

  • seabombs on 05/03/2020 - 09:53
    +2

    I'm a senior dev at a small company (~15 people), I actually think it's the rise of 6-month coding bootcamps that have flooded the market with "junior" developers, and the bootcamp operators are pretty aggressive at pushing their students for internships. One bootcamp now has the business model of being both a training college, and recruiter for their students (with recruiter fee), which I think is a bit bullshit.

    It's a raw deal for uni students. A lot of hirers/managers equate uni and bootcamp grads, when really 3/4 years study vs 6 months is a huge difference.

    It's a shame as generally I find uni grads to be pretty good additions to a team, whereas bootcamp students need loads more attention from experienced devs. They almost invariably have a positive attitude and really want to learn, but start with almost no experience and therefore are a much larger training burden on the employer. Of course there are exceptions though.

    tldr: IMO coding bootcamps == false economy

    Anyway, that rant doesn't really answer your question OP. As someone who's hired a few grads, I can tell you grades/GPA aren't that important. Having completed the degree is enough. Personal projects (i.e. a github with a couple things on it) are good though. If you're going for web dev, make a simple personal website and host it somewhere, then talk about what you wrote it in, how you're hosting it, what CI/CD you used, etc. That would go a real long way, especially for a grad. I believe you can do all that for free with github student plans these days.

  • fartingnuts on 05/03/2020 - 11:34
    +1

    I'm a female in Comp Sci; graduated in 2013 from RMIT. I do think my RMIT course helped with my resume too, since it was a requirement to do 2 real world projects - where we built actual websites for customers. I got my first job when I was in my final year. I sent a bunch of emails to every single tech company that I found on Google, even if they weren't looking for anyone - I mentioned I was still studying but would like an internship. I got a few interviews and offers and chose the one I could get to the easiest. After 2 weeks, of getting paid $50/day, I was contracted to come in 3 days a week. Easy sailing from there.

  • [Deactivated] on 05/03/2020 - 11:59

    It's simple, if you wish to apply for a certain field, ask the lecturer, prefessor, or any any one on faculty campus if the course entails mandatory experience (it baffles me university or colleges do not (apart from exceptional candidates for university positions, but we're talking about scholarship or Phd individuals that the university will hire and offer tremendous amount of experience to) or defer studying apply for any job, a job you hate,anything stop being selective in the mean time.

  • daleyboy79 on 05/03/2020 - 14:01

    Do you have any work experience at all? If not just go out and get any job (even if its cleaning toilets) for 3 months. A lot more employers will take you seriously if you have a track record of actually turning up to work on time … or at all.

  • Grish on 05/03/2020 - 20:00
    +2

    Ok so 4 pages and people still think this has something to do with names, sex or qualifications…

    Well guess what? None of that crap matters anymore, maybe in the 80s-90s but now no one cares.

    When I go through a pile of CVs, heck I don't even read the name (ok, I'll admit I can't even pronounce half of them anyway, lolz).

    I skip to the meat, and if it's too meaty there's no way I'm going to read that, straight into the bin. This ain't a uni essay, "less is more" (Unix pun intended)

    I appreciate the frustration of getting that first foot in, it's a bit of a catch 22, but I would definately focus on the foot in rather than going back for any more study.

    Real world experience is king.

  • happirt on 05/03/2020 - 20:44

    if you are not getting interviews, its your resume.

  • wimphrel on 06/03/2020 - 00:09
    +1

    +1 for tailoring your CV AND Cover letter specifically to the company - showing passion/interest that sets you apart from the other applicants. 2 paragraphs max for cover letter and 2 pages max for CV (with lots of white space for readability - Don't write an essay, as being succinct is a skill.

    To do this easily, would you consider a different psychological approach?

    Forget that it's impossible to find a job, and instead LOOK for companies you want to work for. If you don't know, take those opportunities at meetups to meet the PEOPLE who work for specific companies & ask about what they do. Do you like them? Would you want to work for/with them? Are they diverse in ideologies/religion/race/sex?
    Generally the attitude of the people align with the Company.

    Once you know what companies you want to work for, writing a cover letter that makes you stand out is quite easily.

    I remember my first grad job - I only liked one company in all the careers fairs I attended. If I didn't get a job there it would've been the phD route.
    It was a mix of HW & SW, which is what I wanted.
    I expressed this 'succinctly' in my cover letter, and made sure to name their company and throw in hints that I've researched them (i.e. mention their projects on their website, and current products, etc), and relate the hints back to why I want to work for them.

    Sent it in and I got an offer for a 1st interview. (I did get the job - phew).

    I've gotten 1st round interviews for 5/6 job application attempts using this technique on companies I actually wanted to work for. The passion kinda shows, and generally the 'real' passion usually means that my past work experiences align with their wants

    Companies also have referral bonuses for employees, and if you know people who are willing to refer you (It generally means people are willing to work with you), then your CV goes straight past all those electronic/AI filters to HR for a quick skim for sanity and straight to the manager.

    Interviews are another ball game. Will leave that for another time.

    A lot of SW companies now are much more progressive than you think - SW is a relatively young industry so a lot of young companies have a lot less of the men-only club psychology. In fact, the more diverse a company is, the less likely these discriminatory groups can form. Companies want a balance of women and men because it's been shown to be MORE productive. It's not (just?) a PC thing for marketing!!!
    I really like my current company and how diverse it is - there is much less talking about topics & behaviours that exclude people/groups.

  • Cynicaloflife on 06/03/2020 - 15:01
    +2

    I did Computer Science and another course (double degree but complete opposite) and did not go to any career events (my uni had none). However, I did get my CV checked and proofread.

    Interviewed for high profile tech companies (Microsoft, Amazon, Honeywell), IT Service companies (IBM, Accenture, Deloitte), Banks (CBA, Bankwest, ANZ, Westpac) and Mining companies (BHP and RIO). Ended up getting a few offers. I found that its comparatively easy to get an offer despite my coding skills are not so good.

    It should be easy comparatively easy for females to land a job in the Tech Industry tbh. In my new grad program they hired a person from India and Pakistan (female) and they hadn't even studied in Australia. They used their international degree to get a role.

    I honestly thought that was a bit unfair considering that all of us has studied in Australia, but thats how much the shortage is and how desperate the companies are.

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