Is It Ethical to Ask Someone Who Just Came Back from China Recently to Not Come to Work/School?

Taro Milk Tea on 28/01/2020 - 11:18
Last edited 29/01/2020 - 16:01

Corona virus is definitely a big issue at the moment. It also creates some ethical issues among many of us.

My mate told me today in his workplace, his colleague who just came back from China were "confronted" by her peers asking her to leave the office immediately because they are afraid she might have the virus.
Long story short, she left from the office, obviously not in a good term.

This makes me thinking, is it ethical to do so? At the same time, the fear is understandable. But if I were that person, I would be kind of offended even though I know I might be just fine…

What do you think guys? Is it normal and ethical to do so?

Poll Options

  • 804
    Yes
  • 190
    No
Health & Beauty

Comments

    • OzzyOzbourne on 29/01/2020 - 09:01
      +1

      14 days

      • shaybisc on 29/01/2020 - 09:13

        14 days works but I heard many officials including the NSW Health Minister talking about do something if you have symptoms. Is 14 days now the official policy? Is it being enforced?

        • JimmyF on 29/01/2020 - 14:56

          Is 14 days now the official policy?

          They are saying upto 14 days for symptoms to show. This can mean you are showing symptoms after 2 days or even 16 days.

          • Zachary on 31/01/2020 - 09:38

            @JimmyF:

            or even 16 days.

            Um, that's over 14 days….

            • JimmyF on 31/01/2020 - 10:36

              @Zachary:

              Um, that's over 14 days….

              Yes, they are saying up to 14 days, some people quicker, some people can even be longer to show symptoms if they have a strong immune system. So GASP yes even maybe 16 days

              • altman on 31/01/2020 - 13:41

                @JimmyF: Can't seem to find anything about symptoms appearing up to 16 days?

              • Zachary on 06/02/2020 - 11:16

                @JimmyF: But if it's up to 14 days, then it can't be more than 14 or else you should be saying up to 16 days instead…..

    • shaybisc on 29/01/2020 - 18:06

      I just heard on news of pre-symptomatic person who infected 4 others at a seminar in Germany. Expert says it's very rare so far but caution best approach.

  • Brendoo on 29/01/2020 - 09:09

    At my company's offices in China (we are a massive global company) they have told everyone (thousands of staff) to stay home (paid) an extra week beyond the end of Chinese New Year so that everyone can be sure if they have symptoms or not and go to the hospital if they do. And obviously to stop the potential of mass infection if people are contagious and come to work straight after Chinese New Year and infect loads of people without realising it. Good risk mitigation.

  • b0rnwithabeard on 29/01/2020 - 09:23

    Sounds like the kinda thing that a company would mention in their employee HR handbook - if the company deems (note "company", not just Gary from accounts) that there could be a potential health risk, then the company is well within their means to ensure that individual isn't putting the rest of the company in jeopardy.

    Take out the Coronavirus completely: if you're at work and you start sneezing and sniffling a lot because you've got a cold, it's perfectly acceptable for your boss to ask you to go home. This is no different

  • striker5950 on 29/01/2020 - 09:24

    absolutely ethical, infact its necessary yes tell them to stay at home for 14 days
    all no votes are Chinese people

    • netsurfer on 29/01/2020 - 10:04

      all no votes are Chinese people

      I found that really hard to believe. Look at the other forum post. Quite a number of people with Chinese background want a complete ban of Chinese passengers arriving to Australia. A lot of stereotyping.

      That's the thing with a lot of forum posts. A lot of bad news. How about Chinese people recently arrived in Australia who volunteered to stay home for 14 days? My colleague told me her friends told her she won't be visiting her and she will be staying at home for the next 14 days just to be safe.

      • striker5950 on 29/01/2020 - 10:19
        -2

        i never said all Chinese are careless about other peoples health, i just meant the 'no' votes are the Chinese who are against being quarantined

        • netsurfer on 29/01/2020 - 11:22
          +1

          All is absolute. I know for a fact you are wrong.

          The reality is the racial background wouldn't be a big factor in the poll. Chinese people who are here (and have not travelled to China for the last 12+ months) are divided. Some are really scared, some aren't. We have non-Chinese people in Wuhan. We don't see them having a panic attack.

          Numbers can be quite manipulative. Sure, the numbers currently look bad, but as a British person in Wuhan mentioned, that's still less than 1% of Wuhan population being infected. It is a big country and big city, even a small percentage would result in a large number.

          What exactly can be achieved from an OZB poll?

          • striker5950 on 29/01/2020 - 15:18
            -2

            @netsurfer: lol you disliked coz you are Chinese and you are angry at the facts?

            • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 18:19

              @striker5950: why are you being racist?

        • HighAndDry on 29/01/2020 - 17:03

          Probably more politically correct people more than Chinese people. Most Chinese people I know don't give a f about political correctness.

  • RocketSwitch on 29/01/2020 - 10:21
    -3

    I heard Bill Gates made the virus so he could patent the vaccination and make billions?

    I also heard he refused to vaccinate his kids according to former doctor of theirs.

    Cue X-Files theme music

    • netsurfer on 29/01/2020 - 11:36
      -1

      Nah, Microsoft had been spying on your for years.

      They are just waiting for Bill Gates to give them the green light to blackmail you. No Windows for you. A complete darkness awaits…

      • RocketSwitch on 29/01/2020 - 12:02

        I have Linux and Apple as alternatives.

        • TheSmegger on 29/01/2020 - 12:07
          +1

          Oh well, back to OS/2.

          • grog on 29/01/2020 - 13:18

            @TheSmegger: TheSmegger 1 hour 8 min
            Oh well, back to OS/2.

            ya not wrong there narelle!

            OS2 forever

    • No ONE on 29/01/2020 - 22:33

      Your cheap comment is not even worthy of my neg.

      • RocketSwitch on 29/01/2020 - 22:53
        -2

        But worthy of your reply? LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL

  • sauce2k on 29/01/2020 - 10:31
    +4

    Patiently waiting for work to tell all Chinese people to take paid leave..yes I'm Chinese lol

    • netsurfer on 29/01/2020 - 11:41

      Watch out, work might send all Chinese staff to level 4 to work. You may not be able to leave that level for 14 days (except if you got sick, in which they will send you to a hospital). I am joking of course.

  • zrmx on 29/01/2020 - 10:50
    +1

    A good read from reliable and quite up to date source, especially for those interested in knowing more about how contagious the nCoV may be

    https://theconversation.com/how-contagious-is-the-wuhan-coro…

    • sagrules on 29/01/2020 - 11:49

      WHO meeting notes
      https://www.who.int/news-room/detail/23-01-2020-statement-on-the-meeting-of-the-international-health-regulations-(2005)-emergency-committee-regarding-the-outbreak-of-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)

  • jelko on 29/01/2020 - 12:32

    Front page of The West Australian - 29 Jan 2019. A photo of a Chinese Market featuring live animals that will be slaughtered.

    https://i.imgur.com/Mst6cSL.png

    • sagrules on 29/01/2020 - 13:36

      couldnt open image

    • jelko on 29/01/2020 - 13:39

      Works for me.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 12:58
    -4

    That's pretty Fing terrible. also, apparently 300 Ozbargainers are pretty Fing terrible

    • Archi on 29/01/2020 - 13:08
      +1

      I think the 300+ ozbargainers think its ethical to do so.. just not the way it was described. there is a difference

      the question merely is
      Is It Ethical to Ask Someone Who Just Came Back from China Recently to Not Come to Work/School?

      not

      Is It Ethical to attack everyone that you believe that has been to china and completely banish them.

      • JimmyF on 29/01/2020 - 15:03

        The problem is the OP asked so many questions in the post, its hard to tell what people are voting for.

        The poll normally relates to the headline topic, so if you read just the headline and vote, then you're voting against this question

        Is It Ethical to Ask Someone Who Just Came Back from China Recently to Not Come to Work/School?

        Seems pretty straightforward question to me, but if you read the post, are you voting for these questions instead?

        his colleague who just came back from China were "confronted" by her peers asking her to leave the office immediately because they are afraid she might have the virus. This makes me thinking, is it ethical to do so?

        or

        Are we being overreacted with the news here?

        Or

        is it normal and ethical to do so?

        • Taro Milk Tea on 29/01/2020 - 15:07

          Err…cmon JimmyF…just stick to the post header then. is it ethical or not.

          • sagrules on 29/01/2020 - 15:40

            @Taro Milk Tea: Yes thats what i was thinking too…. what are we answering…

          • JimmyF on 29/01/2020 - 16:20
            +2

            @Taro Milk Tea:

            just stick to the post header then. is it ethical or not

            So the question is

            Is It Ethical to Ask Someone Who Just Came Back from China Recently to Not Come to Work/School?

            Yes it is.

      • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:47
        -1

        no, there was no mention of this person being anywhere near wuhan. 300+ OzBargainers are being willfully ignorant douchebags

        • JimmyF on 29/01/2020 - 19:48
          +1

          So you would be happy to sit next to them all day long? Can we send them to your workplace for the next 2 weeks?

          • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 20:38

            @JimmyF: no, because as mentioned above, forcing someone to relocate without any evidence that they even might be at risk, would make you a willfully ignorant douchebag

            • JimmyF on 29/01/2020 - 22:02
              +3

              @[Deactivated]:

              no

              hahaha just as I thought, you don't want to sit next to them.

              forcing someone to relocate without any evidence that they even might be at risk, would make you a willfully ignorant douchebag

              Tell that to the Australian Health Minister then, they think everyone coming back should 'self isolate'

              Health Minister Greg Hunt said even if a person hadn’t been in direct contact with someone who had coronavirus they should still self-isolate on returning to Australia.

              “This makes Australia one of the most forward leading and one of the most cautious countries in the world,” he said.

              “We make no apology for that. Our job is to save lives and protect lives. Our job is to make sure above all else we’re protecting the health of Australian citizens. With these decisions we have become one of the world’s most cautious and conservative countries with the decisions we’ve taken.”

              https://www.news.com.au/lifestyle/health/health-problems/jus…

              Its clear you have no idea how these things spread and nothing about transmission and

              • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 22:15
                -2

                @JimmyF: stop trying to one up yourself for being willfully ignorant

                • JimmyF on 30/01/2020 - 10:38
                  +2

                  @[Deactivated]: You're the ignorant one here. But sure, put your health were your mouth is, and go to this ladys work/home and work there for 2 weeks with them if you think there is no risk at all. Oh thats right you don't want to do that.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 13:03
    -1

    She should be reporting these colleagues for bullying

    • jelko on 29/01/2020 - 13:08
      +1

      These colleagues just don't want to die. Why are you against that?

      • Archi on 29/01/2020 - 13:10
        +3

        against the way it was approached

        • HighAndDry on 29/01/2020 - 17:05

          Substance over style.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:48

          no, I'm against ignorant mean people hurting someone for no reason

      • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:55
        -1

        I see evidence of drama queens losing their mind over nothing, nothing about them not wanting to die. I'd question why hysterical people are even at work when they should be home resting

        • ThadtheChad on 31/01/2020 - 09:48
          +1

          Oh so being concerned about one's own safety is being a drama queen now?

          I will admit that the organisation not proactively disclosing a policy/process that minimises exposure to their staff is the issue here. I also don't believe that her colleagues should have spoken to her directly. They should have raised concerns with the leadership/HR to enact a quarantine.

          On her part I think it would be ethical for her (OP's colleague) to self-report and work out a quarantine arrangement with her organisation. I don't think she should be butthurt about her colleagues' concerns as they are perfectly valid.

  • iDroid on 29/01/2020 - 13:37
    +2

    Absolutely.

    If it was an error or "over kill" action then the end result is someone is a bit miffed for having their liberties restricted.

    Failing to though could result in thousands or more deaths.

    Risk vs Reward seems VERY swayed towards "STAY HOME" regardless of ones moral or political view on it.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 14:31

      If that is the directive so be it but it’s not up Janice in accounting to decide

      • HighAndDry on 29/01/2020 - 17:06

        Janice in accounting is just as vulnerable to catching the virus.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:09
          -2

          Nice straw man argument.

          If Janice isn't happy with her workplace's practices then she should stay at home herself. It is not up to her to decide who should and shouldn't be allowed to go into work, despite the conclusions of the bizarre group think here

          • iDroid on 29/01/2020 - 21:58
            +2

            @[Deactivated]: Right, so we stop the spread of contagious diseases by asking those who aren't a risk to stay home.

            Hmm, yeah that works well.

      • iDroid on 29/01/2020 - 21:56

        Why not?

  • LPV569 on 29/01/2020 - 13:50
    +3

    An article published on 24/1/20 in the Medical Journal Lancett studied 6 Family members who present with the Corona virus. It found that there was person to person transmission of the virus, but also most concerning ”patient 5 was shedding virus without symptoms”.
    So even though a person might feel ok they could still be a carrier.

    • JimmyF on 29/01/2020 - 19:50
      +1

      So even though a person might feel ok they could still be a carrier.

      Yes we have know this all along. The real killer part of this one is being contagious during the incubation period of upto 14 days.

  • billy77 on 29/01/2020 - 14:23
    +2

    Ethics has got nothing to do with this.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 14:30
    +6

    These directives should be coming from the top level of the company, not mob hysteria.

    • jelko on 29/01/2020 - 14:48
      -7

      Wrong.

      How big is this company? Do they have a HR department? What if they don't and the boss is not available. Why do we need to wait to be told what to do by superiors?

      I am not going to risk my health and the health of my colleagues just because it may 'offend' somebody.

      Would you be saying the same thing if a person came from a place with an Ebola outbreak?

      Are you from China?

      • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 14:52
        +3

        That post is as bizarre as it is incoherent

        I’m not Chinese. The fact you ask says a lot about you

    • iDroid on 29/01/2020 - 22:01

      Right, I'm going to let the upper management of my organisation make the right decisions for the well being of myself before their other obligations..

      Yeah? Naaaa…

      Caveat: Unless you work for a contagious disease containment organisation.

  • raptormesh on 29/01/2020 - 14:50
    +5

    If it were me flying back from China I would have contacted HR ahead of time for guidance and work from home the first couple days till HR produces a decision. Just common sense. I would actually be freaking out about possibly shedding the virus to those vulnerable in public.

    • Hybroid on 29/01/2020 - 15:09
      +1

      That's exactly what our company did. Anyone returning from China for lunar new year leave next week can work from home for 2 weeks, no problem. I guess it's easy if you have an office desk-based job but may not so much for retail/site based etc.

    • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 18:17

      Did hypothetical you visit Wuhan?

  • Kranbone on 29/01/2020 - 15:06
    +5

    Your friends work colleagues don't hate the girl who returned from China, just the disease. They want to minimise their risk.

    What she can do is seek medical attention and get a certificate saying she's not infected.

    • xoom on 31/01/2020 - 08:29
      +1

      Its this easy folks. Its nothing personal.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2020 - 17:17
    -7

    0.0002 of Chinese people have contracted this virus. 0.00002 of Australians have contracted this virus. China is 2 million metres squared larger.

    Only the British and Irish propping up this country should be allowed to go into work clearly.

    Or else we should calm down and grow up.

    • ThadtheChad on 31/01/2020 - 09:57

      You do realise the infection spreads in a non-linear manner right?
      https://gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com/apps/opsdashboard/index.h…

      I fail to understand what relevance the "area" of a country has. I'd also take the numbers reported by the Chinese Govt (our primary source for stats in China) with a huge trailer of salt as they have a very questionable track record for honesty.

      I'll ignore the quip about Brits and Irish or the asinine "calm down and grow up" remark, as you probably haven't taken your meds.

      • [Deactivated] on 31/01/2020 - 12:09

        Comprehension isn't your strong point, is it gearhead. To clue you in, that post was highlighting the absurdity of the arguments here.

  • ozBFM on 29/01/2020 - 19:18
    +5

    It is unethical to show up to work if you have returned from china. You should wait 14 days to get back and let the office folks know what is happening.

  • 91rs on 29/01/2020 - 20:13
    +3

    Given the case in Germany where a German man has contracted corona during a workplace training from a visiting Chinese colleague yeah i'd say there should be caution and even restriction of contact with people who are traveling from China. While there are things in place to try reduce travel for Chinese they're not foolproof and the amount bragging about having escaped or feeling sick and getting out before they were closed off is worrying.
    I know of several employers including my own who have sent out company wide emails in regard to travel and regions that are now grounded due to the risk and not wanting to impact other employees unnecessarily.

    • xoom on 31/01/2020 - 08:58

      HR sent a company wide email about a blanket ban on travel to china. And anyone who just came back from china to not return to work till they are given the all clear from a licensed physician.

  • John Kimble on 29/01/2020 - 21:19

    Yes. I read you can be contagious before symptoms appear, so it's just precautionary.

    What's worse is (profanity) who come to work clearly sick e.g. coughing and sneezing all over the place, then hypocritically judging others who do the same. 😡

    Everyone should stay home when sick. It's not that hard people!

    • xoom on 31/01/2020 - 08:55
      +1

      What? Use sick leave when you are actually sick? Thats unaustralian.

      Everyone knows you use your sickies to go to the beach or get plastered. Then when you ran out of sick leave and are actually sick. You soldier on in the office. Dont matter if your coughing up half a lung.

  • pegasusx on 29/01/2020 - 21:36
    +1

    Not unethical at all. My relatives from Xiamen / Fujian / Fushan - Guangzhou and Hong kong came here for CNY and they all kept to themselves / quarantined loosely after the news broken. I think most of the Chinese community understand partly due to the spread not of the virus but of the fear via social media. Esp via "mum" and "grand parents" Wechat groups.

    Me being more on the Western side are bewildered at depth of fear. Partly because I understand the measures I can take to minimise risk. i.e. Not just don a surgical mask, but just increase general hygiene practices like washing my of hands. etc.

    PS. Also because I am a veteran.. I picked up swine flu back in 09 and stayed away from work for almost 2 months as I wasn't in the recipient category for Tamiflu.

  • plmko on 29/01/2020 - 21:41
    +1

    Good times, buy a ticket to China and then start cashing in your sick leave.

    • iDroid on 29/01/2020 - 22:04

      Ozbargain veteran above ^

      Congratulations, you've leveled up!

  • Cave Fire on 29/01/2020 - 21:44

    Firstly, the incident is second hand information, we don't know if that incident really occurred. It sounds strange to me, as the obvious answer is no. The workplace cannot force you to leave your work under suspicion of carrying a disease.

  • cnmarine on 29/01/2020 - 23:27
    -4

    How do you prove someone's been to china? On their own confession? Why not just quarantine all Chinese for 14 days regardless.

  • gstfree on 29/01/2020 - 23:59

    Employer should have some social responsibilities. Employer should allow employees to take personal leave during the 14 days quarantine period. ( or offer some incentive to do so, i.e. book half annual leave/personal leave and pay half at normal).

  • tempura on 30/01/2020 - 07:10
    +1

    you seen the case where an Asian man had a heart attack in Sydney and no public willing to give help because they're afraid of Coronavirus? Is that ethical?

    and that movie Contagious last night? What a coincidence? is it ethical to show such movie to the public where all this public affairs going?

    • Taro Milk Tea on 30/01/2020 - 09:16

      you seen the case where an Asian man had a heart attack in Sydney and no public willing to give help because they're afraid of Coronavirus? Is that ethical?

      I don't know why you got negged, but I think this could be a valid scenario. It could happen though (nobody willing to help this asian man).

      That is why, everyday news keep releasing bad updates about this virus, makes all people anxious.

      Now even the WHO is thinking whether to announce corona virus as global emergency or not.

      • tempura on 30/01/2020 - 09:19
        -2

        I don't know why you got negged

        then upvote me …

        • Taro Milk Tea on 30/01/2020 - 09:23

          err…ok I'll neg you instead..

    • aceaceace1234 on 31/01/2020 - 08:20
      +1

      I think if it was a non Asian, the same situation would have most likely happened. It just happened to be an Asian person.

      • SpotTheOzzie on 31/01/2020 - 08:37

        Agree with Ace but for adifferent reason.

        It happened in China town. There are plenty of videos on liveleak where an old Chinese guy has a heart attack and people are literally stepping around his body as if he doesn't exist.

    • bargain huntress on 31/01/2020 - 14:53

      link to reports about this incident please?

        • bargain huntress on 31/01/2020 - 16:29

          thank you. that is very sad if there were bystanders with cpr training. the reporting is a bit vague. so i guess we could hope it's not true.

          if you are reading this and have cpr training you should always carry a face shield with you - i do and i would like to think i would have tried to help him.

          if you are reading this and don't have cpr and first aid training you should get some. the person you save could be someone you love.

          i think this has inspired me to go on a refresher course.

  • ratoloko on 30/01/2020 - 08:56

    I see no problems with that!!!

    The virus can take up to 14 days to say hello while being transmitted so yes.
    I would do the same.
    A lot of sh1t out there is happening just because people were infected but had no symptoms, by the time they finally presented symptoms, a bunch of people already got it so the spreading continued.

    Work from home and do not appear within 14 days. Simple like that :)

  • [Deactivated] on 30/01/2020 - 09:27
    +2

    For people who have not yet been swept up in hysteria

    https://www.health.gov.au/news/statement-on-novel-coronaviru…

    AHPPC believes that we should take a highly precautionary approach and is making the following new recommendations:

    1. People who have been in contact with any confirmed novel coronavirus cases must be isolated in their home for 14 days following exposure;
    2. Returned travellers who have been in Hubei Province of China must be isolated in their home for 14 days after leaving Hubei Province, other than for seeking individual medical care.

    Given the lower number of cases in China reported outside of Hubei province, we do not currently recommend self-isolation for travellers from other parts of China or other countries.

  • Dseeker on 30/01/2020 - 11:49
    -3

    Short answer is NO, its not ethical because when OP raise this thread , govt advise was no quarantine is required UNLESS you come into contact with a person affected by the virus.

    So this person should go back to the co. and demand HR to rectify this asap.

  • Dseeker on 30/01/2020 - 11:59
    +2

    Also co. need to follow gov't advise…. and not mob rule. In this case it was mob rule.

  • rover on 30/01/2020 - 15:40
    +2

    It is not up to the peers to pressure the person. No health authority is giving any such advice regarding people arriving from China but in been in an affected area or in contact with cases.

  • FW190 on 30/01/2020 - 16:44
    +1

    if that person has been proven/admitted to recently been in China, I don't see what is so unethical about it, afterall, the employer are responsible for the health and wellbeing of the entire company (at least while they are at work), and as long as it doesn't come out of that person's annual leave, then yay! free holiday!

    OTOH, if OP's employer are randomly sending people home because they looked Asian, then yeah they are scumbags.

  • Dack Smith on 30/01/2020 - 19:14
    -1

    Apparently the corona virus is quite lethal, yet people coming from China are not quarantined at all, how will you stop the carriers ?

    Initally Anyone arriving from China, doesn't matter what nationality or race, should all be forcibly interned and isolated on Christmas Island for two weeks.

    Too late now.

    We shall watch this spread everywhere with a cold beer and some nibbles.

    Welcome to Australia mate!

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