Unauthorised Parking in Private Property with Warning Signs - Is Towing A Legal Option?

THL on 03/12/2019 - 00:26
Last edited 03/12/2019 - 09:33

Hi all,

I live in an apartment building (VIC) which has secured gates. I always get random people parking in my spot which I assume they just tailgate other cars to come in and find a random spot to park it without thinking. The issue has been going on for years and Body Corporate has tried to resolve this issue by installing a swipe near the exit gate which requires residents swipe. Well, people just wait at the exit and tailgate others out, which is not a very smart idea.

Anyway, I've seen this sign posted everywhere in the car park and also one outside of the car park entrance. I've done some research online and have seen some people saying towing from a private property is illegal as they have no rights (not sure about this). I'm just wondering does putting up these signs actually give you the right to tow away unauthorised vehicle parked in private car bay, if one day I want to go down that path? If so, are there any legislation online that's stating the rules? Or is this sign alone sufficient?

Link to image:
https://imgur.com/a/DdylVgs

UPDATE:
So I’ve called the towing company. They said I need to fill out some forms on their website and provide evidence that the car spot belongs to me (either lease agreement or any proof), pictures to show that the car spot indeed has car lot number and a sign showing it belongs to apartment number x, then they are happy to tow it at the car owners expense.

So I guess it must be legal for them to do that?

Automotive

Comments

  • CC123 on 03/12/2019 - 00:52
    +2

    Take a photo (make sure the number plate is visible and that you can see that the car is blocking the entrance) and call the council. Ask them to tow the vehicle away.
    Sit back and relax.

    • THL on 03/12/2019 - 01:04
      +7

      Sorry if I wasn’t clear in my post. The car isn’t blocking any entrance/exit. It’s parked in my car spot which is my private property. Not sure if I have any merits to tow it? I’m assuming it is legal/allowed that’s why they have these signs put up?

      • CC123 on 03/12/2019 - 01:14
        +3

        Sorry for not understanding, it's late and I am tired.

        It’s parked in my car spot which is my private property. Not sure if I have any merits to tow it?

        This article from a law firm suggests that cars can be towed if they are on private property. That could be wrong though.

        Perhaps try to gather CCTV footage if your building has cameras

      • spackbace on 03/12/2019 - 01:17
        +19

        Call the tow company? They'd know not to do anything illegal

        Not saying towies are fine upstanding citizens, but they'd know what was clearly illegal

        • THL on 03/12/2019 - 09:41
          +5

          Yep did so. Refer to my update above. They will come and tow it and they said they’ve done it heaps of times. Must be okay then? :)

          • brad1-8tsi on 03/12/2019 - 11:42

            @THL: As long as you have all the signs up that they asked about. You have to make it quite explicit that the area is a private parking spot.

            I would have several up saying "reserved for registration ZZZZZZZ". "Private property trespassers towed."

            https://www.qld.gov.au/transport/safety/rules/road/parking

            my space is between 2 poles and I'd put up a plastic chain or rope between the poles.

            Alternatively, put a nail under a tyre so that when they reverse it gives them a slow leak.

            • TEER3X on 03/12/2019 - 14:52
              +7

              @brad1-8tsi: I don't think giving someone a puncture is legal or ethical

              Can easily serve them justice without breaking the law

              • brad1-8tsi on 04/12/2019 - 07:26
                +2

                @TEER3X: You are correct. It is neither legal or ethical but when all else fails…

                When I was at the tyre place we had a huge parking area. We were next door to a hotel. We'd come in on Saturday morning and cars were parked in front of the hoist bays. We'd jack them up and drag them onto the street and let fate deal with it. That probably wasn't legal or ethical either.

          • Jugganautx on 03/12/2019 - 11:59
            +1

            @THL: You found your answer /end thread.

      • snook on 04/12/2019 - 17:37
        +4

        get a bollard

  • Almost Banned on 03/12/2019 - 01:06
    +3

    There are at least two self-help type remedies to deal with the tort of trespass - abatement or distress damage feasant.
    One addresses the nuisance by removal - abatement. This is your towing scenario.
    The other by restraining the property - DDF. This is your wheel clamping scenario.
    Both raise potential issues.

    • THL on 03/12/2019 - 01:13

      I’ve seen this exact sign in many private commercial parking as well (I.e Wilson or Secure Parking). Surely it’s legal for them to tow away unauthorised vehicles?

      It also states “By parking here you agree to these terms”. Doesn’t that constitute a contract?

      • Frashal on 03/12/2019 - 10:53
        -2

        My understanding is that signs like that mean precisely nothing legally. To enter into a contract you must provide explicit consent ie. signing it. Those signs are just there to be scary.

        • Almost Banned on 03/12/2019 - 18:47
          +9

          Yeah - you are completely wrong from a legal perspective, so good job to you and your upvoters.
          There is a whole line of cases - known rather creatively as the 'ticket cases', and extending to the famous English case of Thornton v Shoe Lane Parking - that establish that provided reasonable notice of the terms and conditions is provided either prior to or contemporaneously with the contract being entered into, those terms and conditions may be incorporated into the contract.
          This is particularly so when there is both reasonable notice of the condition, and a reasonable opportunity to decline to accept the terms.
          This approach essentially combines incorporation by notice with acceptance by conduct.
          So, no, signing is not required, and the notices MAY be contractually binding.

          • TheGiantTomato on 04/12/2019 - 15:45
            +1

            @Almost Banned: ^^^ this guy laws.

          • coin saver on 04/12/2019 - 16:37

            @Almost Banned: "that establish that provided reasonable notice of the terms and conditions is provided either prior to or contemporaneously with the contract being entered into, those terms and conditions may be incorporated into the contract" however the terms have to be legal a lot of these signs also mention fines which these private companies cannot impose.

            • Almost Banned on 04/12/2019 - 16:41

              @coin saver: You are right that there are possible issues with both the doctrine of penalties, and unfair contract terms or even unconscionability - which are just some reasons why the terms MAY be binding.

      • knk on 03/12/2019 - 14:49

        Just get one of these
        https://previews.123rf.com/images/pdsci/pdsci1609/pdsci16090…

        • lint on 05/12/2019 - 11:26
          -1

          Not secured to anything the person parking illegally will probably just steal it and stash it in their boot.

          • knk on 05/12/2019 - 12:37

            @lint: Unlikely

            • ankor on 05/12/2019 - 13:52

              @knk: Unless it's @lint parking in your space..

              • knk on 05/12/2019 - 14:08

                @ankor: Pesky @lint.

                I think as long as the person can't claim ignorance they're not going to park in your spot.

                • lint on 05/12/2019 - 22:50

                  @knk: As the OP says, there's plenty of signage warning of being towed if a vehicle is parked without authorisation. I think it's already far beyond the point of claiming ignorance when they're tailgating people to get in and out of the carpark.

                  Does putting something in your parking space deter these people? Probably, if there are easier spaces for them to steal.

                  But if you've ever lived in an apartment or know someone who does, you know it's a bad idea to leave anything of value in the carpark, even in secured storage. I've even heard of security cameras installed to deter thieves being stolen.

                  People who steal other people's car spaces are thieves and they probably won't think twice about stealing other things too. Just sayin',

                  • knk on 06/12/2019 - 07:54

                    @lint: I wonder if there's an alternative like those ones that are lockable and swing upwards, but that you can fill with water or sand so that it can't be moved easily?

    • spackbace on 03/12/2019 - 01:16
      +14

      3rd option - passive-aggressive note left on windscreen (check for dash cam first) threatening something random :

      • Park where you're not allowed and next time I'll let a tarantula crawl into your car
      • park where you're not allowed and I'll park you in. I'm unemployed so I hope you like public transport!
      • park where you're not allowed and we'll find out if my cousin Jimmy really can operate a forklift. Your car will look perfect on top of your mate's car!
      • Park where you're not allowed and your plates will come in handy for the next time I need fuel.

      Note that these are silly threats that cops wouldn't bother with 😉

      • Slippery Fish on 03/12/2019 - 08:33
        +2

        Lol. Prawn paste squirted into the locks. Smell for a week.

        • [Deactivated] on 03/12/2019 - 10:40
          +2

          Or just slip them a fish.

    • Chandler on 03/12/2019 - 16:50

      I was thinking the same thing - it's private property. Makes no difference (IMO, IANAL) if its your person or your vehicle. If you have no right to be there, you (your car) are (is) trespassing and the owner of that property has every right to remove you (your car).

    • DogGunn on 03/12/2019 - 21:16
      +1

      Section 90C of the Road Safety Act in Victoria makes it illegal for a person (who is not police or otherwise authorised) to wheel clamp or otherwise detain a vehicle, including on your own land.

      • whooah1979 on 03/12/2019 - 21:31

        Section 90C of the Road Safety Act in Victoria

        Trespassing is unlawful under Section 9(1)(e ) of the Summary Offences Act 1966. Wheel clamp them and call it even.

        • DogGunn on 03/12/2019 - 21:37

          Wouldn't you rather them gone rather than immobilising them so they cannot leave?

          • whooah1979 on 03/12/2019 - 21:43

            @DogGunn: Irresponsible drivers may continue to park there if they think they can get away with it. Wheel clamp them for a night or two. Op could also use four $10 bike locks as a cheaper option.

            • DogGunn on 03/12/2019 - 21:45

              @whooah1979: I reckon leaving a notice on the car that you've organised to have their car towed for the next time they park there would be more successful than clamping them.

              By clamping them, you can be sure they will definitely go to the police which brings them down on you, rather than them.

      • Almost Banned on 04/12/2019 - 00:45

        That is because DDF is specifically abolished in Victoria.
        Abatement specifically remains available.

        • DogGunn on 04/12/2019 - 00:48
          +1

          Yes, wasn't saying anything about that.

          Just wanted to point out you were correct that there are issues with each.

      • Baysew on 04/12/2019 - 11:10
        +4

        I think I read this advice on a previous OzBargain thread. -

        Wheel Clamp your own car and have "Do not not park or your car will be clamped!" signs displayed on it.

  • bobbified on 03/12/2019 - 01:15
    +20

    If nothing else has worked, your best option is to install one of them lockable bollards.

    (Sure, it pushes the problem to someone else's spot, but that someone else aint going to let you park in their spot when yours is taken - so every man to themselves!).

    • Seraphin7 on 03/12/2019 - 09:37
      +16

      Yes, but only put the bollard in place after they've parked in your spot. Leave them locked in for a month.

      • living4music on 05/12/2019 - 13:43

        And leave a note saying $500 for the security guard to come to unlock it. Use your phone number or a fake number that does not exist, your choice.

  • jace88 on 03/12/2019 - 01:20
    +16

    This was an issue in a building I used to live in and they installed a dual gate system which prevented tailgating, but it definitely slowed things down a lot. Basically once you swiped, it opened the door, but then you drive in and stop at a boom gate, once the door closes, the boom gate opens… thus preventing tailgating.

    • Chandler on 03/12/2019 - 16:53
      +1

      Or they could do what I've seen some retirement villages do and have a sign asking people to stop after the gate and wait for it to close.

      But people are dicks and won't do it, so we need to put a gate in to make them.

      • jace88 on 03/12/2019 - 19:00

        Realistically no one ever stopped at those. Or if they did, they were definitely the minority.

        (I’m not saying it’s a bad idea but honestly unless it’s more than just voluntary or people start to feel more vested, a sign probably will have limited value).

        • capslock janitor on 04/12/2019 - 14:06

          is there a timer on thosr things or a sensor?

    • bobbified on 04/12/2019 - 00:34
      +1

      This is exactly what they've got in my building. It works perfectly and I love it.

      (Except when you've got 20 residents trying to get in at the same time, it's a bit of a wait. But then nothing is perfect!)

  • whooah1979 on 03/12/2019 - 05:14
    +3

    A box of nails should do the trick.

  • spal on 03/12/2019 - 05:17
    -4

    Maybe what you have not considered is that they may have a valid access, but too lazy to park in their bay, This could be because a resident has sold day time parking and a swipe card. Now that bay may be a bit inconvenient to park or far from the lift. So people park at a convenient spot. A sign to say that you are a shift worker or an emergency services worker and access is required at all times may fix your issue.

    • whooah1979 on 03/12/2019 - 05:53
      +1

      This could be because a resident has sold day time parking and a swipe card.

      Reselling parking could be a violation of the terms of the bylaws.

    • cameldownunder on 03/12/2019 - 16:52
      +4

      We had someone parking in our spot occasionally, so we left a nice note saying the spot is ours. When we parked in our spot, we got a note saying the spot is not ours. We contacted strata and in fact, the spot was not ours, but for of another apartment, which was sold recently and the previous owner did not have a car.
      So before you do anything make sure that spot is in fact your spot

      • bobbified on 04/12/2019 - 00:39

        So did you find out which spot is rightfully yours? Was there a domino effect with other residents?

        • cameldownunder on 04/12/2019 - 13:59
          +1

          Yes, we did find, and no, no domino effect. Was slightly better located.

      • JayEmmGee on 04/12/2019 - 06:48
        +2

        We had a similar issue where the parking sports were numbered but that didnt correspond to the apartment numbers. So we were in apartment 33 but had spot 15. One day we came home and there was a car in our spot. Annoying, but we put a note on their windscreen and then next day when we came home the spot was empty so parked there but there was a note left on our windscreen saying that it was someone else's spot.

        After lots of this back and forth, we went to the body corporate and got the plans for the parking lot and which spots were owned by which apartments and found out we had the right spot, but i'm guessing other person moved into apartment 15 so just assumed they had spot 15.

    • Randolph Duke on 04/12/2019 - 08:44

      Why should OP bother considering if someone has valid access or not? Either way, they are been inconvenienced. What's your proposal, just park in someone else's spot with the associated knock on effects?

    • smartazz104 on 05/12/2019 - 07:17

      Maybe what you have not considered is that they may have a valid access, but too lazy to park in their bay

      They can get stuffed?

  • pencilman on 03/12/2019 - 05:48
    +7

    If your car space is allocated to your apartment, then the cheapest solution for you is to put a rubbish bin, old chair or box in the middle of the space with a clear sign on it saying this is private parking.
    On the sign you can say that any unauthorised parking will be towed away.

    This means that if someone decides to park in your spot they have to get out of their car and move the obstruction before parking in the spot.

    Most would avoid this as then they can't say they accidentally parked in your spot.

    • azngamer on 03/12/2019 - 11:31
      +3

      True, but that means OP will have to move it every single time too. I prefer the tow truck approach as that means they wont keep coming back (assuming that's legal) and pretty sure it would be the offender that pays for the tow truck

      • [Deactivated] on 04/12/2019 - 17:48

        That option comes with potential retaliation from unstable people.

  • AbsX on 03/12/2019 - 06:03
    +4

    You could clamp the car and leave a note to the offender to contact you to remove them for a fee.

    If they don't approach you within a week or 2, then get it towed =) Bonus points if you start selling the car for parts

    Negative is they are in your spot longer but at least you get to meet the disrespectful bugger.

    PS I'm not sure if what I stated is 100% legal, but it would bring me pleasure and joy if I was in your position

    • orangetrain on 03/12/2019 - 08:31
      +1

      That could be extortion/theft depending on state.

      • AbsX on 03/12/2019 - 08:33

        Hence the PS at the end so I'm not liable if someone acts on my post =)

  • BobD on 03/12/2019 - 07:20
    +14

    You could try making it inconvenient by letting down their tyres.

    • Austaurean on 03/12/2019 - 08:29
      +4

      1st day one tyre, 2nd day 1 tyre (warning reprieve), 3rd day 2 tyres, 4th day 3 tyres, 5th day 4 tyres..

      • Daabido on 03/12/2019 - 14:22
        +1

        6th day, jimmy the boot and pump up the spare tyre.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/12/2019 - 08:35

      This.

    • THL on 03/12/2019 - 10:25
      +4

      I like this idea. However, let's say if I did that and the driver drove off without noticing 1 tyre is flat. Then he/she has an accident due to the flat tyre, that's a pretty serious consequence?

      I know it's probably a stretch & unlikely scenario. But then again anything is possible.

      • Cyberninja on 03/12/2019 - 12:18
        +7

        Deflate all 4 tyres on day one.

  • Bargainbag on 03/12/2019 - 07:25
    +7

    Get something like this and lock it whenever you're not using it: https://www.barsec.com.au/products/car-parking/lok-up-parkin…
    I feel your pain, I have the same thing happen at our park space, and we rent it out so it can be a big problem (we have a lot of air bnb rentals near by and visitors dont care)

    • thatonethere on 03/12/2019 - 07:29

      We had to do these at work. Only one person has run into them so far….

    • THL on 03/12/2019 - 10:37

      This looks great! Might considering getting this (the lock I mean, not the Mercedes)

    • Roman Sandstorm on 04/12/2019 - 11:00

      This actually looks like a good idea.

      However, to prevent the necessity for the legitimate spot owner to get out of their car, and unlock the mechanism every single time, perhaps some modifications could be made?

      I would envisage it being a spring-loaded or hydraulic mechanism to lay it down flat. And it could be locked with a remote-controlled relay like a garage door bolt.

      That way the owner could drive up to it, press their remote. This would release the lock. Then move their car forward gently touching the sign which would fold down flat.

      Hell… if I was an entrepreneurial type… or an inventive type…

      • Roman Sandstorm on 04/12/2019 - 11:03

        Damn.

        And then a few posts lower down…

        There goes my retirement nest egg.

  • Dancasper on 03/12/2019 - 07:57
    +7

    I used to work in the traffic section of a Council and this problem has come up a few times. Council cannot (and does not) tow vehicles. We contacted the police and they advised they weren't able to move the vehicle but could possibly contact the owner (that was even a maybe due to the protections under the privacy act). Basically the legislation (in NSW) doesn't stretch to these sort of situations.

    I think the easiest solution in this case would be to install a removable bollard in the middle of the space. Padlock would secure the bollard when you're out.

  • t_c on 03/12/2019 - 08:20
    +6

    If its different people, clamping, towing, vandalising will not solve anything, cause the next person will not know

    $29 free delivery

    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Fold-Down-Vehicle-Security-Car-P…

    Just liquid nails it down, should suffice for the majority.

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/selleys-350g-heavy-duty-liquid-n…

    plus youll need this

    https://www.bunnings.com.au/9-caulking-gun_p1660573

  • Skramit on 03/12/2019 - 08:27
    +15

    I'd be pretty surprised if it's just random people tailgating in and out.

    I bet it's other residents letting in their mates/family with the swipe card.

    • Bargain80 on 03/12/2019 - 11:48

      most likely the case.
      Maybe OP should ask the body corporate manager to circulate the notice to every resident about the allocated parking first.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/12/2019 - 08:43
    +1

    Tow companies won't touch it. It's parked on private property. Council also won't touch it.

    You have the right to remove it off your property. However you cannot damage their vehicle or you'll be responsible. If you can safely move the vehicle off the property onto a public parking spot without damaging the vehicle then you're within your rights. Not many have the means to do this safely.

    Just let down all their tyres. Every. Single. Time. They'll move on.

    • BobD on 03/12/2019 - 08:46
      +1

      and unscrew the valves so that simple pump the tyres isn't possible

      • payless69 on 04/12/2019 - 10:14

        few drops of superglue speak louder than words

    • [Deactivated] on 03/12/2019 - 10:42
      +1

      If you can safely move the vehicle off the property onto a public parking spot

      Why not move it into a clearway. That way, it will get towed.

    • THL on 03/12/2019 - 10:50
      +2

      @zeggie Refer to my update above. Tow company informed they will tow it and has done it regularly to many apartments in CBD which they partnered with which has their warning signs put up in the car parks.

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 03/12/2019 - 14:51
        -1

        Check the paperwork.

        They'll be putting the onus on you. Not them. Usually all the mobs will steer clear even then.

        The slightest dent and you know what will happen…

        then they are happy to tow it at the car owners expense.

        Also they cannot just take the vehicle and "charge" the owner. There's no agreement or contract. There is with you and the tow company….

        Just watch out.

  • pegaxs on 03/12/2019 - 08:46
    +11

    Google “vehicle positioning jack”

    Buy some of these. If there is a car parked in your space, slide them under, roll the car somewhere else, remove the jacks and park your car.

    • Euphemistic on 03/12/2019 - 09:16
      +3

      Have always wanted to get some of these for when we go to the footy, then move all the cars that are taking up 1.5 spaces closer together.

  • Bad Company on 03/12/2019 - 09:12

    Hey OP, is it usually the same car, or the same few cars? If so, most people will learn a lesson if you simply left a (normal) note.

    • THL on 03/12/2019 - 10:22

      It's usually the same few cars but occasionally some random cars. However the frequency of unauthorised parking is so frequent that it is making me considering the towing option. I've tried leaving a note or put cone on it. People just ignored it.

      • Bad Company on 03/12/2019 - 10:45
        +1

        I've tried leaving a note or put cone on it. People just ignored it.

        Well in that case tow them to hell!!!!!!!!!

        If towing is indeed illegal the tow company will tell you that.

  • 87percent on 03/12/2019 - 10:13
    +4

    i think i remember hearing that tow trucks can't tow cars from a private property because its considered "theft"

    • CocaKoala on 03/12/2019 - 11:46
      -1

      Not if the owner of the private property is asking them to do it.

      • Meeb on 03/12/2019 - 22:41

        And is paying for the service. Tow companies don’t tow for free.

        • CocaKoala on 04/12/2019 - 07:43

          Nope, they will collect the money from the owner of the car when they go to get it.

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