Should I be paid for being asked to report 10 minutes earlier than rostered time?

tik tok on 26/11/2019 - 14:45
Last edited 26/11/2019 - 15:26

I cannot find anything about this on the fairwork website. Can an employer legally ask an employee to report 10 minutes before the rostered shift in order to sign in and not pay the employee for this extra 10 minutes ?

I find this hard to believe. Anyway, asking for a mate and this is an excerpt from the email he got (cos he was 1 minute late on 2 occasions in a fortnight) :

We encourage all staff to arrive at least ten minutes before your shift to allow time to sign in and put your belongings away before arriving on the floor. I would like to remind you that the rostered time is the time we expect staff to arrive on the floor, not at the Centre.

How can we support you to ensure you are arriving on time?

The signing in itself is on a phone app which takes forever. Then they have to sign out/in for their breaks using the same app and get their pay docked if they stuff up the break sign in/out 'because the app says so'. In my view 10 minutes a day, 20 days a month is 200 minutes, about 3 hours of work without pay. I dont think many would care for my view - but I'd like to know people's opinion.

EDIT Just editing the question as tired of replying individually. There is no point to a reply with 'it makes you look good to the employer' bs. The mate is happy to show up 10 minutes prior, but wants to know if that is going to be paid or not ? The employer says no - so is there a law which protects him from essentially working for free. Edited the subject to reflect the same.

Education & Work

Comments

  • RM on 26/11/2019 - 14:48
    +6

    Child care industry - people then wonder why are the educators frustrated…

    • tik tok on 26/11/2019 - 14:50
      +2

      same for retail ?

      • RM on 26/11/2019 - 14:55
        +16

        No experience in retail. But again, I as an employee try to anyways rock up 10mins early to ensure I am ready to start on time. If I have extra time on hand, sit in for a coffee/tea but don't start ahead of schedule.

      • scrimshaw on 26/11/2019 - 15:03
        +13

        Same for retail plus a lot of other industries. Hospitality, nursing, banking etc. there is an expectation you will arrive slightly earlier than the official start time so that your business is ready to operate as soon as the clock hits 9 AM.

        I used to work retail and If I am given the keys to open up the store, I'll usually come in 20 minutes earlier, clock myself in and prepare for opening. The law however states you do need to be paid for the hours you work, so that extra 20 minutes I put into the day counts towards my hour wages.

        It may not be the case for salaried employees, in which case they usually jot it down in a notebook and then claim it later as time in lieu

        • tik tok on 26/11/2019 - 15:18
          +1

          Is there a fairwork/legal reference that says you must be paid when you are signing in and setting up your workplace (just the 10 minutes required to do things necessary for you to do your job)? I don't think my mate has a problem coming in 10 minutes early - the problem is with not being paid for it. And I want to know if there is a legal framework that protects such situations.

          • scrimshaw on 26/11/2019 - 15:26
            +22

            @tik tok: Fairwork Ombudsman facebook page says

            https://www.facebook.com/fairwork.gov.au/posts/myth-i-dont-g…

            Employees need to be paid for all the time that they work. This includes the time an employee spends:

            • opening or closing the business
              • scrimshaw on 26/11/2019 - 15:41
                +1

                @Soluble: Well, feel free to ask on the Fair Work facebook page if you want clarification on that. I'm not that well versed in legislation.

                • Soluble on 26/11/2019 - 15:44
                  +2

                  @scrimshaw: Corporate retail for 19 years and now have my own retail store, I'm all over it ;) I've been in a business forced to backpay quite a lot over the 15 minute thing and in-charge allowances etc.

                  OPs case seems to be that he wants to be paid for putting his belongings away and signing on. Which no, he ain't getting paid.

                  • tik tok on 26/11/2019 - 15:48
                    +35

                    @Soluble: If you have had to backpay quite a lot, you are not on top of your game I reckon.

                    • Soluble on 26/11/2019 - 15:51
                      +14

                      @tik tok: Was the company, not me. I'm telling you facts you're ignoring. You have no legal recourse. Present to your shift in time. Because that email you got is an informal warning ;)

                      I should also add that's this argument has happened many times, SDA agrees that you should be ready to start work at your starting time.

                      • dizzle on 26/11/2019 - 18:02
                        +28

                        @Soluble: Agree with this especially for retail. The idea of arriving 10 minutes early is not so you can work for 10 minutes, but to make sure you're lunch is away, your uniform's straight, your hair is done, you've finished your coffee, you've checked your facebook etc. All if this is so that you are on the floor ready to do your job for the time you are rostered.

                        I've worked in several retail positions and the amount of people that turn up at 9:00 sign in and then go make a coffee, use the toilet, sit on their facebook for 10 minutes is astounding. As a team member I had to grit my teeth. As a manager I require them to have all that done before they sign in at 8:59 so they can work at 9:00.

                      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2019 - 08:30
                        +4

                        @Soluble: I agree with Soluble here.

                        Many, many big box retailers have been stung and now allocate shifts in the form of 8.45am - 5.15pm etc. to comply with the legislation. This is when employees need to unlock doors, turn on lights, appliances, turn on POS/PC's, music, quick meeting/huddle with staff, get ready for trading. The reverse when locking up. Many retailers have had to backpay staff. If someone is dealing with this now, go to FairWork. Nothing will change without some backup to help you.

                        OP's friend sounds like they are in a far larger company and no "opening up", prep or actual work is required. Just chucking their lunch in a locker and getting to where they need to be.

                        Unless OP's friends duties are actually far more than what OP's post indicates then it's somewhat unreasonable to fight for that 10 minutes of pay when there is no work being performed.

                      • DemocracyManifest on 29/11/2019 - 13:59
                        +1

                        @Soluble: SDA are a bunch of useless dicks, a good example is the agreements they bargained where you have breaks that literally include getting to the break room, so for a 15 minute tea break if vigourously policed is a waste of time

                        • Soluble on 29/11/2019 - 14:07

                          @DemocracyManifest: You mean the additional 5 minutes they bargained on top of the legislated 10 minutes?

                          How much more do you want for free?

                          • DemocracyManifest on 29/11/2019 - 14:42

                            @Soluble: They actually bargained the tea breaks away in the latest EBA for most employees, some entities don’t even get breaks for 6 hour shifts so how about that

                            • Soluble on 29/11/2019 - 14:46

                              @DemocracyManifest: I'd be interested to know in what company/s they bargained away 10 or 15 minute paid tea breaks? While I've seen 6 hour shift and half hour meal breaks be negotiable between employer and employee(they're unpaid) I've never seen the 10/15 minute paid tea break be removed? For 4hours+

                              • DemocracyManifest on 29/11/2019 - 23:17

                                @Soluble: Coles changed minimum shifts to 3hrs and 45mins on the rollout of the new EBA to avoid the paid tea break at 4 hours so most casuals now aren't entitled to a teabreak on most of their shifts, speak to workers on shift and ask them about it and they won't be happy. Liquorland force all their employees to sign EBA Variation forms to work, no breaks, and they entitled to tea breaks and aren't allowed to take them.

                  • scrimshaw on 26/11/2019 - 15:51
                    +1

                    @Soluble: My retail managers seem to be of the mind that only one person should be rostered for closing down the store. So yeah, we usually entrust the closing of the store to one person who can count money quickly and know how to close the store correctly without taking their sweet time. So, they'll be paid the extra 15 minutes of their time there.

                    Whoever is not rostered is considered 'off work' at exactly closing time and don't get any pay even if they stay to help out, so I guess that is how management ensures maximum profitability.

                    • Soluble on 26/11/2019 - 15:56

                      @scrimshaw: Yeah that's correct. May be slightly different or worded slightly different in different agreements.

              • berry580 on 29/11/2019 - 19:22

                @Soluble: What makes you so sure the venue certainly only requires one person to open/ close?

                • Soluble on 29/11/2019 - 19:46

                  @berry580: Depends what opening/closing involves. This is off topic for OP as we are talking about being ready to work at start time. Already confessed to being late at least 20% of the time. OP has not mentioned if they have to count cash prior to opening or if they even work on the fringe opening/closing. Or if they are mid shift etc.

                  OP has asked, is there a law that prohibits this starting work 10 minutes early, yes there is. But not for putting your belongings away and clocking on and being ready to work at the beginning of their rostered shift. The email they have quoted from their friend(and I wish I had a friend that was as passionate about my work life balance 15 years ago as OP is about his) has encouraged them to get to work early so they can start on time.

                  From every comment OP has made can you find any evidence that they are required to open and/or close their store/venue? Is there any information indicating that this is any more than 'I should be paid to put my belongings away and clock on'?

          • Whisper Quiet on 27/11/2019 - 09:37

            @tik tok: When I used to work in retail and then run my own store afterwards, first I was expected to open and close the store but only get paid for store opening times. So about 10-15 minutes each way unpaid per shift. When I was the owner I paid the staff for 15 min each way to do it before and after shift, even changeover shifts between staff had both of them there for 15 min to not have that issue. Sounds like you (or "your friend") are getting a bit of the wrong end of the deal if they expect you to log on to your system and have everything ready to go without being paid. No different to opening up the store beforehand. Even at Telstra the same thing is happening which is wrong in my opinion but its a bit of a grey area. You're expected be at work and log on to two different systems, read your emails which effects what you'll be doing for the day, then have your morning meeting which starts your pay. Sometimes that whole process can take near half hour. On avg 15 min. So again this 15 minutes is crucial for work but is never paid to you. Unlikely you'll win in this situation but with this world becoming more and more PC I'm guessing the little man might win one of these cases soon.

            • DemocracyManifest on 29/11/2019 - 14:04

              @Whisper Quiet: A good example in retail is the business getting you to do training at home in your own team, people are now appealing this with RAFFWU and getting backpay with each module being a 3 hour shift. They’ve already had to do heaps of backpay re start and end times

          • Never Pay RRP on 27/11/2019 - 09:50

            @tik tok: Does his pay get docked by 10 minutes if he is 10 minutes late?
            I think he only got this notice because (my assumption) he is late a lot.
            I feel the email is correct, you should be ready to start working at the allotted time, not just arriving/packing your things and preparing.

            • tik tok on 28/11/2019 - 14:53

              @Never Pay RRP: Pay not docked. As mentioned in the OP, he was late by a minute, twice in a fortnight. He wasn't even late. Was at the Centre at 8.30 - by the time the app loaded and logged him in it was 8.31.

              • nomster on 02/12/2019 - 13:46

                @tik tok: So you arrived at work smack bang on the time you were meant to start work?

                Sounds like you weren't ready to start work if you were trying to log in at 8.30am

          • 2Poor4Ozb on 29/11/2019 - 17:47

            @tik tok: if he want to get paid for that 10mins, just come an extra 10mins from that 10mins :0

        • nikey2k27 on 30/11/2019 - 18:13

          I personally could be open in 5mins after manger show key idea.

  • capslock on 26/11/2019 - 14:51
    +20

    Not really fair on the people you are taking over from if you are late for your shift. They want to go home on time too.

    • Chandler on 28/11/2019 - 00:51
      +16

      Is it the employees fault for not arriving early for their shift to allow for the changeover, or the employers fault for not allowing enough overlap between shifts?

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 28/11/2019 - 08:37
        +1

        It's not completely the employers fault per say for not enough overlap, but if the situation occurs when a staff member has to stay back because someone else is late then it's the employers responsibility to pay overtime. Full stop.

        • RocketSwitch on 29/11/2019 - 11:53
          -2

          Ha, try and enforce that, no way in hell. No regulations on this. Even Fairwork, if you're hard done by you have to go to court to change anything.

      • lysp on 30/11/2019 - 18:49

        Exactly.

        If changeover is a massive issue - then incorporate 10-20 minutes overlap in shifts.

  • Soluble on 26/11/2019 - 14:53
    +42

    Been in retail for a long time, this is standard. Also it doesn't say to report 10 minutes before your shift, they're encouraging the team members/staff to arrive early to ensure they are on time for the start of their shift?

    1 minute late, twice in a fortnight according to your 'friend' is quite often 5 minutes late on numerous occasions.

    If it's your time to start it's someone else's time to finish.

      • Soluble on 26/11/2019 - 15:30
        +13

        Because they are simply recommending it, not forcing, to get you/your friend to work on time, which from your post isn't happening?

        Judging by your posts down below you don't even wanna rock up 30 seconds early.

        In retail(big corporate at least) if you are opening or closing you are paid 15 minutes before and after your shift. You still start work 15 minutes before your shift, so are expected to pack your belongings away, be signed on and ready for work.

        I don't understand why you are talking about legalities when they haven't forced you to start 10 minutes early. They are trying to get you/your friend to start work on time.

          • Soluble on 26/11/2019 - 15:35
            +24

            @tik tok: If you're fighting over putting belongings away and signing on being a part of work, no they are not.

            I can see the next post being:

            'My friend is on a performance management plan for being late more than 3 times is this legal?'

            • DemocracyManifest on 29/11/2019 - 14:07
              +1

              @Soluble: I’ve been sacked for this shit if they are this predantic about every single second and make you justify why you are at the company every 6 months as part of a appraisal why stay you’ll eventually get the sack by some manager on a power trip

          • Meeb on 26/11/2019 - 15:44
            +51

            @tik tok: What world do you live in where putting away your personal stuff is part of 'paid work'?

            Maybe you should consider asking your employer to cover your commute time and cost since ya know, you're wasting time and money getting to work (which you wouldn't be otherwise if you weren't employed by them). Maybe ask for compensation for brushing your teeth in the morning before going to work, since ya know, it's to make sure clients are not offended by your breath…

            See how silly things get when you're pedantic about 10 minutes of technically 'work-related' activity.

            • RocketSwitch on 29/11/2019 - 11:56

              @Meeb: Everything is silly. Everything is by the minute or second. 5 minutes late. 2 minutes late. Big whoop! What if you die next day? Doesn't matter.

          • geoffs87 on 28/11/2019 - 06:11
            +4

            @tik tok: Next thing you know, your mate will want to be paid for his/her commute to work, because “that’s part of doing your job”, right?

            What about getting dressed at home, because without getting dressed you can’t do your job, right?

            Sheesh, having a shower, because your employer expects you to be clean.

            Your friend, like the rest of the (rostered) world, is required to be physically working from the second his shift starts. If it takes them 1 minute or an hour to ready themselves at the workplace to make that happen, they should arrive with that much time in hand. No they are not entitled to be paid for that time, that’s why there’s nothing “in the law” about it.

            Get a grip.

          • 2025 on 28/11/2019 - 20:28
            +2

            @tik tok: Lol
            Ok
            Let’s extend this logic
            He needs to put his car away too. It’s a personal belonging. And arguably more important than the lunchbox and jacket.

            Why not simply pull into the car park at 9am and be paid to “put his belongings away”

            I’d doesn’t make sense does it.

  • Seraphin7 on 26/11/2019 - 15:03
    +38

    The email you've referenced makes the entirely reasonable requirement that you are actually working at the time your shift starts.

    Businesses quite reasonably want a smooth handover at change of shift time (i.e. staff are not suddenly "unavailable" for 10 minutes while everyone sorts themselves out).

    Fellow employees quite reasonably want to be able to leave promptly at the end of their shift and similarly not have to hang around while the next person sorts themselves out.

    The manager on the floor quite reasonably wants to have a smooth operation and not be distracted by people not being ready to go at the start of shift/be fielding grief from those looking to leave when the next person appears not to be there.

    I've worked in these sorts of environments, and I can tell you plenty are lucky to be in the building at the start time of their shift, and then spend a good 15 minutes "getting ready" to work.

    In my view 10 minutes a day, 20 days a month is 200 minutes, about 3 hours of work without pay. I dont think many would care for my view

    That's fine, but it seems to often not go the other way. People want to be paid for all these 10 minutes, but then expect enormous "flexibility" when they need time off on short notice. A bit of give and take goes a long way in my experience.

    • geoffs87 on 28/11/2019 - 06:17
      +2

      Agree.

      Looking at this in our friend here’s view. Say this retailer has 20 employees, each works 200 days a year. Assuming they earn $25 an hour, the employer has to fork out an extra $17,000 a year in wages.

      If this was a smallish business, that could be the difference between them being able to stay in business or not. Then 20 people are out looking for work.

      The world is bigger than your friend.

      • arcticmonkey on 30/11/2019 - 07:09

        Or it's $17,000 of free labor/extra profit for the owner.

        • urinal cake on 30/11/2019 - 08:41
          +1

          But nobody is being asked to start work early, OP's "friend" is simply being asked to start on time, which he isn't.

  • Seasoned Salt on 26/11/2019 - 15:16
    +12

    Would you like to have a job?

    If so, continue to be prepared and come slightly earlier, so you can start right on time at your agreed upon slot.
    The 10 minutes is a good guide so you can be ready to start work, instead of rocking up at 8:58, fumbling around to sign in etc;

      • sjj89 on 26/11/2019 - 15:32

        This is correct. The onus is on the employer to track the employee's presence at work.

      • dizzle on 26/11/2019 - 18:13

        That may also depend on where you sign in. I've worked for a department store where the sign-in/out machine is at the front door. If someone signed in at 8:59. it would still take them 10-15 minutes to get to their department and ready. In this place it was not uncommon for me to have to help customers in other departments where the staff member had not arrived yet. It was also common for people lo leave before the store closed and stand at the machine waiting for the clock to tick over before they sign out.

        Even if you're in a smaller place where you sign in at your register I think it's fair enough that you should sign in early and not get paid until you start actually working. Otherwise at 9:00 when the first customer comes through the door, you get interrupted and don't sign on until 20 past - then get written up because you're late. Which do you think is easiest for you, arriving a couple of minutes early, or having to fight with a manager that you were actually on time?

      • lysp on 27/11/2019 - 20:41
        +2

        I would say you're partially right.

        Putting bag away / checking phone - not work related activity.

        Signing in - I'd class that as work related.

        Basically if you're unable to do the job without doing a particular thing - then it's work related.

        If you leave your phone/bag at home and it doesn't prevent you from doing your job - personal activity.

        • dizzle on 27/11/2019 - 22:12
          -1

          That's not what I'm saying at all. Apart from having to sign in at the door in large stores you haven't started work until you're at your allocated area and ready to work, which is when the actual clock starts.

          How would you feel if the person next to you starts work 1/2 hour late because they have been having a smoke, talking to the security guard about their weekend, do a bit of shopping before they start? Or they leave 1/2 hour early so they can stand at the door waiting for a clock to tick over? AND you have to deal with their customers. I saw that and more when I couldn't affect how another person behaves. Now I'm a manager it won't happen in my team.

          All I'm saying is that I pay you for the time you work, and while I don't expect you to be working before 9:00 I expect you to have all that other stuff done before you're rostered to start so walking in at 9:00 won't pass.

          • Raihoo on 28/11/2019 - 06:31
            +3

            @dizzle: But if you require me to sign in then I'd argue signing in is working and I should be paid for it. If you don't want to pay me to sign in, then don't require me to do it and find some other means to track my in/out times.

            There's been a few comments in this thread about relieving the previous shift and how it's not fair on them. I agree with that wholeheartedly, but I don't agree that the employee should be the one responsible for that. The employer should be scheduling overlap of shifts if they have processes they require the employees to do prior to taking over from the previous person. The vibe here tends to be that it's <5 mins, just suck it up. I'd counter that with if it's so trivial, why doesn't the employer just pay it?

            None of this includes the putting of personal things away, as that's not required for work as @lysp pointed out above.

          • lysp on 28/11/2019 - 12:26
            +1

            @dizzle: my reply was more to big dick's comment. It just happened to be after yours (not under yours).

        • geoffs87 on 28/11/2019 - 06:19
          -1

          Oh come on , I can’t do my job without my commute to work, should I clock in and start being paid from the time I wake up?

          • Raihoo on 29/11/2019 - 07:53
            +1

            @geoffs87: No, you shouldn't. But if your employer requires you to do something during your commute, or from the moment you wake up, to benefit the company then you probably should be.

            If I hire a day-rate contractor and then tell them they need to complete a set of compliance training modules prior to commencing work you can bet your bottom dollar that will be billable time as would be any time they take to fill in a time-sheet if I require it of them. Signing in is just time-sheeting, so I don't see why it would be treated differently for someone working retail, or someone charging $1,500/day.

            • geoffs87 on 29/11/2019 - 08:30

              @Raihoo: Stopping to pick up stock (or something similar) on your way to work, is very different to clocking in…

              Even then, signing in takes all of 30 seconds - a minute max? I think if anything changed here, employers would just be saying, ok, well you dont have to be at your station until 8:01 rather than 8am, noones getting paid any extra, you just have to do 1minute work less each shift.

              Big win.

              And those that complain - well i imagine their employer has 100 other people wanting to do their job…

              I just can't believe how small the world's problems must be that people are complaining over 1 minute of pay. Can't wait for some of these people to end up in future roles where they're paid a salary with no overtime allowance, and often work 12+hr days…

      • smartazz104 on 01/12/2019 - 21:22

        So you won't be starting at 9 as expected, you'll just be there, signing in and not actually working?

  • Ocker on 26/11/2019 - 15:18
    +8

    Sounds like a classic case of "all take and no give"

    That aside, heading says "ask ME" and body of post says asking for a mate??

    • Archi on 26/11/2019 - 16:24

      "all take and no give"

      not really consistant with the OP's username

      • snackerjoe on 28/11/2019 - 09:02
        +1

        Lol just noticed this is the same guy who could not hear the indicator ticking on the other thread about getting caught by the red light camera and then suddenly could hear it… also could not see any evidence of the indicators being on despite there being visible reflections. I think he missed "head" at the last part of his username.

    • Ghost47 on 30/11/2019 - 13:03

      Why can't people just fess up or be honest if they are asking for themselves? So insecure it's quite sad.

  • Stewardo on 26/11/2019 - 15:21
    +13

    Showing up 10 minutes early for anything in life shows good character.
    If you resent your job why not look for a different one.
    Try to see both sides of the argument, if you were the manager and the store doors opened at 9 and the customers entered, but the store was unmanned because staff were out back in the staff room having just arrived.

      • Meeb on 26/11/2019 - 15:33
        +19

        He ain't working in those 10 minutes, he's getting ready for his shift. That is, it's something he could do elsewhere and walk onto the floor at exactly the shift starting time. The 10 minutes before are not actual work.

      • Archi on 26/11/2019 - 16:22
        +14

        being a bit testie. @dig Bick for asking for a mate

      • Meho2026 on 26/11/2019 - 17:23
        +9

        If youre asking about the legality of it, its totally legal.
        Most people are trying to tell you exactly the same thing.
        The email is stating that the rostered start time is the time they have to be ready to work on the floor, of course the employer is allowed to state that.

        The email is suggesting that to avoid being late, you arrive at the site 10 minutes beforehand.
        Your mate is being sent that because they are late for work.

        The fact is, almost everyone who has a job is required to be on the floor or at their desk at a designated start time, this is usually the time they are paid from and all of those people arrive at the workplace earlier in order to do that.
        Most reasonable people understand that if they are not on the floor or at their desk ready to work at their start time that they are late and the time taken to get to the floor or their desk is time thats part of their commute to work.

        • Whisper Quiet on 27/11/2019 - 10:01
          -7

          But the problem is they are already doing work before the shift. Should be paid from when they have to turn on the computer. Same deal with the app to log on. If it takes 10 min then that's still work, no difference if they had to open a store and start the computers,etc.

          • smartazz104 on 01/12/2019 - 21:25

            @Whisper Quiet:

            Should be paid from when they have to turn on the computer

            Nah bullshit, no work is being done whilst a PC is booting up.

    • shruglord on 27/11/2019 - 23:37
      -2

      Nah I disagree. It's the managers responsibility to have their staff on the floor ready to open at 9 and if they require prep time, staff should be paid for that prep time.

      If a staff member can arrive at 9, and be on the floor at 9, fine, but if they are required to sign in or do anything else that takes more than 1 minute, they should be paid for that requirement.

      • Rusty4 on 28/11/2019 - 12:46

        Really? Get paid for putting your stuff in a locker and/or getting changed into a uniform? That's rich…

        • shruglord on 28/11/2019 - 13:49

          Why not? If a boss is going to say 'Be on the floor in your uniform by 9', I will arrive at work in my uniform and be on the floor at 9. If they say 'You should arrive 5 minutes early to prepare for your shift' and are going to enforce that 5 minutes in anyway, then that's part of my job and I should be paid for it. If I choose to rock up 5 minutes early for my own mental preparation then that's another story.

          • Chris12345 on 29/11/2019 - 23:15

            @shruglord: Agreed. 'Preparation' takes me about 30-45 seconds from the time I walk in. Therefore I need to be at work for 8:59:15. Not 8:50:00.

    • skidexa on 29/11/2019 - 13:00

      If that's the case, business should pay people to setup and start earlier if that's what they want to avoid.

  • Meeb on 26/11/2019 - 15:31
    +22

    What they're asking is for your mate to show up 10 minutes before their shift start so that they can get the 'non-work' stuff out of the way. I.e. as they said in the email - to put away belongings, change into uniform, chit-chat etc. I'm not sure why your mate is expecting to get paid to essentially be ready and at work on time at the start of their shift.

    I would argue arriving right on time and then taking 10 minutes to just get to their station is where your mate should be deducted pay for those 10 minutes as they're not actually doing what they are employed to do. It's very simple logic.

  • Davo1111 on 26/11/2019 - 15:44
    +8

    encourage

    encourage is the key word.

  • Meeb on 26/11/2019 - 15:56
    +20

    Well looks like OP ran out of negs for the day, so he can't neg on all the reasonable answers that he doesn't want to hear.

  • 87percent on 26/11/2019 - 16:04
    +2

    Lot of companies encourage staff to be ready at the commencement their shift. So if you work in a call centre, make sure you’re logged on to all your systems and ready by the start of your shift. I don’t see the problem

    • John Kimble on 26/11/2019 - 16:50
      +5

      Except for when those systems take 30 minutes to load…

  • Archi on 26/11/2019 - 16:16
    +5

    one of my first jobs about 20 years ago the owner said to us, that he would like us to come in 10-15 minutes before 9am to start up the computers as they took a while to log on to servers and other stuff…

    so we replied, can we start shutting down and packing up 5-10 minutes before 5 so that we could leave on time.

    think the boss was having a moody day but it all depends on your industry, the work you do and the duty of care you have.

  • AdosHouse on 26/11/2019 - 17:22
    +16

    Holy friggin first world problems. When you sign on you are expected to START WORKING, not expected to be putting your shit away. The email is merely a recommendation, not a hard and fast rule.

    People need to remember, there are plenty of resumes coming in every single week for simple jobs like retail/hospitality, think about that when you are deciding when to get to work, and think about how replaceable you are. So make yourself stand out, or I'm sure there is someone else that has handed a resume in that will have no problems being at work early to get ready.

    • HardlyCharly on 26/11/2019 - 20:34
      -7

      Then they can f****** have it. I'm not illegally working for free or letting them think they can pressure me into things, it's a slippery slope.

      • AdosHouse on 26/11/2019 - 21:03
        +6

        No one is asking you to work for free, they are asking you to get to work at a time where you can walk in, put your stuff down, sign on, and be up on the floor at your designated start time.

      • Meeb on 27/11/2019 - 08:55
        +4

        You are totally such a reasonable person. /s

      • Rusty4 on 28/11/2019 - 12:50
        +1

        The stupidity in this thread is insane.

        • MrFrugalSpend on 30/11/2019 - 16:17
          +2

          Lots of privileged people who have never had to work hard in their lives… maybe they should take a good look at work conditions, extremely low pay, and poverty around much of the world and be very thankful they live in a first world nation where someone is willing to pay their lazy @sses despite expecting to be paid for an optional 10 minutes prep time designed to avoid them being late.

          Anyone with respect should already arrive early and be ready to start on time… what were they going to do with the 10 minutes anyway… I bet browse/chat/post on their phone? Same people probably can't honestly tell us they spend every minute of every shift working hard and never checking a phone, chatting, or using the toilet, or just doing nothing, etc… probably adds up to a lot lot more than 10 minutes every shift of wasted productivity.

          A billion people in the world would probably show up 10 hours early to swap for their job, pay, conditions, working hours, public holidays, loadings, and citizenship… we got it sooo easy in Oz

  • John on 26/11/2019 - 17:39
    +4

    Its sensible. Basically you are expected to be ready for work at that time, that's all the employer is asking for. What is required for you to be able to meet that expectation is up to you to manage it to show that you are a capable employee.

    I'm not a lawyer but I don't think the legal system intends to control tiny detail like these, otherwise you'll end up with rules for every circumstances under the earth. I believe in the court common sense will be considered. Coming up 10 minutes early to work to get ready seems fairly reasonable.

    • DemocracyManifest on 29/11/2019 - 14:09

      The point is come in early but don’t start work until you are getting paid for it

  • Hardlyworkin on 26/11/2019 - 17:45
    +2

    As noted above the key word is encouraged. 10 minutes is the suggestion, if someone only needs 2 and is never late then that might be fine.

    In my non lawyer view, the request is reasonable for an emoloyee to be ready to perform the role their engaged to do the moment the click strikes the hour.

  • yoonibear on 26/11/2019 - 17:47
    +3

    I get paid hourly - if they want me to start working 10 minutes prior, they better be paying me for it. Email sounds like they expect you to start working at 9, and not just entering the building at 9, making your coffee, taking morning dump, then start working at 945

  • [Deactivated] on 26/11/2019 - 18:06
    +3

    … and my staff wonder why I don't like taking on part timers.

    More staff = higher chance of landing more pains in the buttockal region.

    • Soluble on 26/11/2019 - 18:14
      +2

      5 staff, 5 casuals for me. Step up or no hours, simples

      • HardlyCharly on 26/11/2019 - 20:33
        -8

        Expecting free work is pathetic and you should be ashamed.

        • Soluble on 26/11/2019 - 20:37
          +5

          Not what I said.

        • smartazz104 on 01/12/2019 - 21:29

          Doesn't matter what he expects, the entire premise of the OP is

          We encourage all staff to arrive at least ten minutes before your shift to allow time to sign in and put your belongings away before arriving on the floor. I would like to remind you that the rostered time is the time we expect staff to arrive on the floor, not at the Centre.

  • pegaxs on 26/11/2019 - 18:09
    +14

    OP’s next post;

    “Afternoon shift staff are all turning up late for their shift because they want to clock in right at starting time and I can’t go home till I am replaced… what do?”

    • Whisper Quiet on 27/11/2019 - 10:07
      +1

      You realise as an employer to have staff come in at the exact time the other one stops is ridiculous. There has to be a changeover period for that very reason.

      • pegaxs on 27/11/2019 - 11:38
        -1

        You do realise that I'm on your side?

        I worked in a casino and how it operated was almost exactly as OP describes it. You needed to be there and ready to go at change over. If you decided to turn up at your start time and then get ready, you were considered late and were written up.

        So, please, spare me your "i'M aN eMpLoYeR" heart break story, I already agree with arriving to work before shift start so you are ready to go at start time, not arrive at start time and use company time to get your shit sorted.

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