Scammer Alert - Don't Part With Goods Until Funds Are Showing As Available In Account

Lsayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:16
Last edited 07/11/2019 - 16:35 by 1 other user

Fellow Ozbargainers, I think I am already scammed.

  1. Phone buyer told me they will ask their family or friends to pickup as they are busy at work

  2. Offered to do direct bank transfer, asked for bank bsb and number. Assures same bank transfer will be instantaneous

  3. "friends or family" came to pickup. Before this, deposit at ATM appears in transactions at nearby location. Funds not yet available.

[This is where my mistake comes in, should be an instant red flag, but I assumed that was by cash]

  1. Said good bye to my phones and thought I got the money

  2. Two routes from here…
    A. Cheque is real, scam is fake
    B. Cheque bounces, scam is real and I paid for the lesson with near $2,000

I have only myself to blame, much appreciate any advice or suggestions although I don't think I will be able to recover my losses other than make a police report

Mobile

Comments

  • pyramid on 07/11/2019 - 14:20
    +28

    Handover your membership….scams are discussed multiple times in recent past on this forum…

    what phone/brand are we talking about?

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:25
      +4

      Sadly have to go back to OZB kindergarten.

      Samsung S10 512GB and S10e

      • pyramid on 07/11/2019 - 14:29
        +4

        Oh shit!!!thats latest phone with big $$$ attached. Do you have IMEI And can you report it as stolen?

        • capslock janitor on 09/11/2019 - 11:16

          Yes - report the IMEI as stolen immediately.. Tell me he has recorded the IMEI..

      • Scrooge McDuck on 07/11/2019 - 15:54
        +2

        What did the person/people who took your goods look like?

        • brendanm on 07/11/2019 - 15:55
          -7

          triggered

        • sayako on 08/11/2019 - 14:14
          +9

          Two late teen or early 20s, skinny small build. Could be Middle Eastern descent.

          • [Deactivated] on 09/11/2019 - 01:18

            @sayako: Lebanese, Arabs or iraqis.

  • Collies80 on 07/11/2019 - 14:21
    +13

    register the device as stolen if you have a receipt or picture of the imei, get it networked blocked then its only good for parts unless it gets handed into a police station or telecommunications outlet

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:30
      +1

      Thanks, have checked the AMTA website, they state the following…

      A customer must have a current and active mobile service with an Australian mobile service provider?

      The lost/stolen mobile device must have a usage associated with that customer’s mobile service number. Only the mobile service provider of the customer can block the IMEI.

      It is not a requirement for the customer to have purchased the mobile device from their mobile service provider.

      Might be possible to ask Telstra to lock JBHIFI phones?

      • Collies80 on 07/11/2019 - 14:34
        +2

        absolutely as it says in what you posted there you have to ask the service provider,

        In this case Telstra to block the imei. If you don't have a copy of the receipt jb hifi have always been good for me in providing reprints of old receipts (to get the imei)

        Telstra will need to do it to verify your SIM card and phone number were used in a phone with that imei. this is to avoid any random from just blocking someone else phone because they got a copy of their imei. Sort of like a proof of ownership

  • skid on 07/11/2019 - 14:31
    +8

    Sorry, I'm confused. Is it a direct bank transfer, a deposit into an ATM or a cheque?

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:33

      Was originally told it will be a bank transfer. Then before "family or friend" arrived, I received APP notification funds received (funds still not available)

    • Bid Sniper on 07/11/2019 - 15:19
      +1

      Confused here too.

      1. So your bank mobile app got a notification that funds of $2K have been received? But its not available yet ( btw this is normal).

      2. Did they deposit via wire transfer or not? or cheque, are you sure?

      3. what does your bank app say?

      I sold a car via mobile app and went fine, same thing, funds received not available until next day. Next day funds were available . But it was done in front of me and asked for a bank sms

      • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 15:38

        1.yupe
        2.deposit made at branch ATM nearby
        Not sure cash or cheque as it says "Cash & Cheque Deposit ATM …" in the app…

        Branch confirmed it's a cheque and cheque deposits at the ATM scans directly processing centre and accessible only by coming Tuesday.

        • capslock janitor on 09/11/2019 - 11:17

          So yeah next time make sure Funds are CLEARED

  • dust on 07/11/2019 - 14:31
    +16

    If you're selling something on Scumtree (or equivalent), it's always cash only! And try to do the exchange in front of a bank or something else with video surveillance!

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:35

      Good advice.

      I have details (time) of ATM deposit made.

      • dust on 07/11/2019 - 14:37

        Wait, so a cash deposit was made at an ATM? Was it for the correct amount? There should be video footage of the person depositing the cash. Have you tried contacting the owner (the bank) of the ATM?

        • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:48

          Went to the branch. Will have to wait till cheque clears/bounces as stated in post…before the branch will do anything. I think fair enough for that.

          It showed as "cash" on top with "cash and cheque deposit" in the description in the C bank app, lady at branch pointed to me it can be a cheque.

          • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 15:06
            +1

            @sayako: Thanks to @Poppin's reply below, will get to branch now to tell them it's not normal cheque expected and to keep it for police investigation once it bounces.

        • brendanm on 07/11/2019 - 15:56
          +2

          Op doesn't even know that the funds won't clean yet, I doubt the bank will send 12 investigators just in case to review hours of footage.

      • OzHunterNSW on 08/11/2019 - 09:59
        +1

        Why are they depositing to a bank…. why not hand you the cash/cheque

        • Baysew on 08/11/2019 - 10:05

          This is where "I can't pick it up will send friend/family member to pick up" comes in to it.

          It is most likely the villain picking it up anyway.

          • ssquid on 08/11/2019 - 10:41

            @Baysew: But then why not give the money to the friend/family member to hand over… it makes no sense why OP would agree to it.

            • Baysew on 08/11/2019 - 10:59
              +1

              @ssquid: Well that is part of the trick. Trickster tells OP that can't pick up, but will credit account. Can't give cash to family/friend because 'busy at work'.

              It relies on the person agreeing to what, on the surface, is not an unreasonable request and trying to make the sale.

              • sayako on 08/11/2019 - 11:43
                -1

                @Baysew: Definitely would have asked "brother" to bring cash. Trickster assured many times it's going to be same bank direct transfer.

                Before "brother" came to pick up there was "Cash & Cheque Deposit ATM" at nearby branch. There's actually $0 involved in that deposit.

                Even available funds can be reversed I've now read…

                • Baysew on 08/11/2019 - 11:47

                  @sayako: So as ssqid asks, why did you agree to it?

                  • GregMonarch on 09/11/2019 - 01:53

                    @Baysew: Because not everyone knows everything about every dirty scamming trick that's out there to even know they should research it first. (Much the same as people in other Australian states and territories cannot understand Victorian road rules and gasp in horror when they visit for the first time.)

                • Okayy on 09/11/2019 - 11:29

                  @sayako: Who’s “brother”?

        • TEER3X on 08/11/2019 - 11:45
          +3

          Never take a cheque, even a bank cheque can be forged

  • singlemalt72 on 07/11/2019 - 14:31
    +10

    Never, ever part with an item until cash is in hand, or funds have totally cleared.

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:38

      I did the newbie error…

      Just want to remind fellow Ozb members of scams

      • chubbychicken on 09/11/2019 - 08:38
        -2

        Can you also remind us about looking left and right before crossing the road… and maybe about not running with scissors?

      • No ONE on 09/11/2019 - 11:51
        -3

        You have been a member since 2011, and you are telling me your have read none of the scam thread here before.

        There is no cure dumbness and warning would Not change a thing.

  • Poppin on 07/11/2019 - 14:36
    +5

    This has happened to me too. Obviously report it to the police. I also complained to the bank and the financial ombudsmen. The bank compensated me the full amount. It might be worth a try raising a complaint since the way it’s displayed is misleading.

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:42

      Must have been a gruelling few weeks for you.

      In the C bank app it says CASH on top, went to the branch the lady pointed out it's actually "cash & cheque deposit"….

      Will have to ask you how you handled it, is it police report after cheque bounced, then complaint with bank and ombudsmen…?

      • Master Bates on 07/11/2019 - 14:51
        +6

        Screenshot the app now so you have evidence to backup your claim.

      • Poppin on 07/11/2019 - 14:57
        +4

        It was a bit of a pain since I was travelling at the time. I called the branch to make sure they located and retained the cheque as evidence. Filed a police report with every single detail. I felt they were a bit slow with the whole process, bit frustrating since I’m personally involved and the longer it takes the harder it is to recover. I also understand they have bigger cases to investigate.

        I called the bank before the cheque bounced cause I saw the cash and cheque message and they said it was a cheque and I told them that’s an issue and they should do something about it.

        I filed the complaint directly with the bank about a week later, then also with the ombudsman when the bank didn’t respond. It’s quite separate from the police report since it’s between you and the bank. The bank called me a few days later and offered to compensate me for the full amount which I accepted. I felt a bit better after this, still a bit annoyed they haven’t caught the guy. Sure, I made a mistake but it seems like such an easy thing to prevent if the banks even just changed the way it was displayed on the transactions.

        • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 15:18

          Thank you for the detailed reply.

          Walked into the branch as it is 2min away. They are looking into the cheque .

          • will2791 on 16/03/2020 - 22:54

            @sayako: Hi Sayako,

            I have unfortunately had the exact same scam happen to me! I am devastated. Were you able to get the amount reimbursed by the bank? Are you able to please share some tips? Thanks!

        • will2791 on 16/03/2020 - 22:56

          Hi Poppin, are you able to share how your arguments/complaints to get reimbursed by the bank? I have had the same scam happen to me - devastated! thanks!

          • sayako on 17/03/2020 - 00:56

            @will2791: open your private message system please

            • will2791 on 17/03/2020 - 20:28

              @sayako: Hi opened! sorry did not realise there was a private msg! will await for your message. thanks

    • Donaldhump on 07/11/2019 - 18:32

      ur lucky they compensated you, not their fault in the slightest is it?

      • Poppin on 07/11/2019 - 20:36

        It’s completely at their discretion. Otherwise you would have to take the bank to court and argue they contributed to the loss. Probably not worth it for the amounts in question. I think I got pretty lucky, my friends in banking said half the amount would be a good outcome.

    • GregMonarch on 09/11/2019 - 02:10
      +1

      The rubbish banks that allow this 'feature' deserve a class action taken out against them. In fact, it's probably the only reason they cough up: to prevent that very result.

      a) When a 'deposit' is made it shouldn't be processed electronically notifying the recipient. It only appear in the recipient's account AFTER it's been physically opened and verified by bank staff/atm contractors.

      b) Once it has been verified there should be no way to reverse it.

      c) OR… ALL other financial institutions should REJECT these 'payments' until the ones allowing it guarantee to do step a & b.

      This would also put a stop to the accomplice to theft known as 'Paypal', who reverse payments to sellers without permission if the buyer whines - thus enabling the 'buyer' to keep both the item AND get their money back. It's no different to someone handing me change with a smile, then chasing me down and mugging me after leaving their store and saying to police, "But the receipt I gave him shows I gave him his change."

  • [Deactivated] on 07/11/2019 - 14:37
    +4

    Gumtree - cash in hand only. No other way.

    Sucks that there are bottom feeding scum and it is in no way your fault but do follow the basic protocols next time.

    • capslock janitor on 09/11/2019 - 11:19

      What about Paypal, or actual Bank transfer (cleared funds)?

      • [Deactivated] on 09/11/2019 - 11:31
        +1

        Cash only!

        No soup for you!

    • rave75 on 09/11/2019 - 14:59

      Fake cash?

      • Mokr on 11/11/2021 - 21:09

        Need to deposit in ATM to check

  • [Deactivated] on 07/11/2019 - 14:44
    +1

    You should do the exchange in a filmed secure location, not your house and cash only.

  • RM on 07/11/2019 - 14:51
    +11

    Feel sorry for you OP.

    Good on you for keeping your chin high and accept your mistake. It is an expensive lesson but seems you have taken it in the right spirit.

    Sincerely hope you are able to retrieve the money/phone

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:59

      Thank you

  • follow on 07/11/2019 - 14:54
    +3

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/375710

    money aint coming

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 14:58

      Sadly I only read your thread after it happened. Very similar situation.

      Good that you waited until the transaction "cleared" itself.

      Will have to be cash (real notes) only from now on.

      • follow on 07/11/2019 - 14:59
        +2

        payid and beemit would be the only two to accept electronically.

        • redfox1200 on 07/11/2019 - 15:51

          payid can take upto 24 hours to clear

          • follow on 07/11/2019 - 15:52
            +5

            @redfox1200: get them to send $1 the day before. after the first time, it'll be instant.

            • askme69 on 07/11/2019 - 21:15
              -3

              @follow: Payid /oako ia alqaya instant dor me amd othets. Even first time users.

              • follow on 07/11/2019 - 21:22

                @askme69: commonwealth it isn't for first time

      • GregMonarch on 09/11/2019 - 02:23

        And not at home. Not even outside it on the street. I've decided I'll only meet buyers of small items in the foyer of a police station now, or possibly a bank where I know there are quality cameras installed that police can access. If they don't like that, who cares… Price items sensibly and another buyer soon comes along.

    • Bid Sniper on 07/11/2019 - 15:21
      +1

      That sucks man, thanks for the warning.

      PS did the deposit appear as a cheque deposit in your bank statement?

      • follow on 07/11/2019 - 15:28

        it said atm deposit Burke St. had to call and was told it was cheque

        • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 15:41

          Same all it says in the app is "Cash & Cheque Deposit ATM [branch location]" and time. Went into branch to confirm it is a cheque that was scanned directly to the processing centre (they can't see it in branch how the cheque looks like, until they open the ATM next Tuesday)

  • garetz on 07/11/2019 - 15:27

    Um, why would you think a cheque or atm deposit is the same as cash ? If you are selling anything by bank deposit, you wait till the deposit clears before handing anything over. Cheques can be cancelled as well. Neither is equivalent to cash in hand even remotely.

    • sayako on 07/11/2019 - 21:32

      Thanks for the advice on cash is best.

      I think part of it is because the app states Cash on top of Cash & Cheque Deposit.
      However I got to know in the branch it does not distinguish between cash or cheque unless we go find out by calling or visiting the branch.

  • ssquid on 07/11/2019 - 15:59

    Why would you not tell them to give the cash to the person collecting the phone?

  • Seraphin7 on 07/11/2019 - 16:56

    Seriously?

    That's a faaaarrrrking expensive lesson. If only it could have been learned another way …

    • John Kimble on 07/11/2019 - 17:09

      Then it wouldn't be an effective lesson.

      • Ughhh on 07/11/2019 - 23:01
        +2

        You don't need to be set on fire to know fire burns and the pain it comes with.

        • John Kimble on 08/11/2019 - 01:20
          +1

          It's all relative. It would only be two days pay for Scrooge McDuck!

  • Ocker on 07/11/2019 - 18:41
    -1

    I was given to understand ATM's are typically cleared only once a day by the armoured car company that services the machine, and also tops up the cash dispenser.
    All deposits are taken back to the depot. and processed into the banks systems

    • Baysew on 07/11/2019 - 19:11

      Once a upon a time. Smart ATM's process to accounts immediately (cheques subject to normal clearance times)

  • yummypinacolada on 08/11/2019 - 05:13

    I'm assuming you got both devices from JB Telstra loophole(you exchange one s10e with s10 512gb on other store?), so practically you spent $200? Sell both the earbuds, then you got your money back at least?

    Sorry for your losses though, consider it as a tough lesson.

    • ozbjunkie on 08/11/2019 - 08:26
      +2

      Could you link the loophole please? I'm behind on my bargaining and find myself out of the loop(holes).

  • OzHunterNSW on 08/11/2019 - 09:52
    +1

    The RED FLAG is "I can't pick it up"… they send lower grade "members" to collect the goods.For a $2,000 dollar item, I would have gone directly to their work premises and conducted the transaction there and then in front of witnesses -(preferably the boss).

    Say goodbye to your phone.

  • HeWhoKnows on 08/11/2019 - 12:09

    Rules of engagement

    1. Cash - always cash is KING!
    2. Bank transfer via new fast payments platform where the funds are instantly transferred into your account
    3. Bank cheques for large amounts such as for car purchases

    Stay away from
    a) cheques
    b) paypal since if the buyer lodges a claim with Paypal they will side with the buyer
    c) bank transfers where funds have not cleared into your account

    • Mokr on 11/11/2021 - 21:11

      Bitcoin baby

  • jonkvh on 08/11/2019 - 15:41

    Dying to see how this one turns out…

  • alxr0101 on 08/11/2019 - 19:43

    Could have just whacked in some monopoly money in the deposit envelope and submitted it.

    It is truly never in your account until it is cleared funds and available…same for cheque.

    Over the counter cash deposits are fine…but any process requiring verification is never to be trusted….wait…

  • [Deactivated] on 09/11/2019 - 01:22

    Lessons learnt.

    EBay= Creditcard
    Scumtree = Cash

    • GregMonarch on 09/11/2019 - 02:29

      Nope. ;-D

      ebay= for buying only
      gumtree= cash and safe place of exchange

  • Jimothy Wongingtons on 09/11/2019 - 08:52

    high value items are always to be cash or cash!

    if i sell via ebay and they use paypal i take all precautions to make sure i can prove what was sent, that it was sent and that it was received.

    sorry OP, hoping for the best.

  • Vote for Pedro on 09/11/2019 - 09:01

    Sorry to read it. Tough lesson. Unfortunately there are crap people out there.

  • DiscoJango on 09/11/2019 - 09:10
    +3

    Any high dollar items that i may sell, i always say that the transaction will take place in the carpark of the local police station. weeds out 99% of the scammers ;)

  • gimme on 09/11/2019 - 09:18

    So we're sure this is a scam? Has anything even h happened yet?

    • sayako on 09/11/2019 - 10:25
      +3

      Cheque bounced on night I notified bank that I didn't expect cheque deposit. Much better than left hanging until the "3 business days processing time".

      Police report made.

  • OneJay on 09/11/2019 - 10:34
    +7

    TLDR - Buyer tried to scam me, I threatened him, he paid up.

    I nearly got scammed on Scumtree once and I managed to get my money back.

    1. Sold an item for $300, stipulating pick up and cash only. Item was a bonnet for a Toyota HiAce.
    2. Buyer calls me, discusses item, condition, lowballs me, I stand firm, and eventually agree on asking price. Pick up confirmed for 9am Saturday in Burwood, VIC.
    3. 9am Saturday rolls around, I get a SMS message from buyer, saying there's a problem, "You're in Burwood VIC, and I'm in Burwood NSW LOL".
    4. Buyer calls, requests half payment bank transfer, and other half once received goods. I agree, saying "Trust goes both ways". He transfers me $150 and funds are available in my account.
    5. Sends me SMS saying he'll arrange shipping and will transfer me $150 later upon receipt, I just have to pack it up and drop it off to my closest Pack 'N Send. Provides me with a Apartment address in Sydney CBD, his full name, email, and mobile. I take a photo of package, then drop it off at Pack 'N Send.
    6. 2 weeks roll around, I start SMS'ing buyer if he's received it. No reply to my next 3 SMS's. I call him, phone rings out.
    7. I start doing my investigation. I add his phone number as a contact and check my Whataspp - I can see when he's been online, and his profile picture shows a Toyota HiAce van, next to a VW Caddy. The rego plates are barely legible on desktop via Whatsapp Web. I screenshot on my iPhone and zoom in as much as I can, and am 80% sure of the rego (iPhone had higher PPI count than my desktop monitor).
    8. I start sleuthing CarSales and identify his VW Caddy for sale, with the suburb which it is located somewhere in North Sydney, far from Burwood NSW. I have a spare SIM card and put that in my other phone. I pretend to be an interested buyer in his VW Caddy, SMS'ing him questions, and organise a weekend inspection. He gives me his inspection address. On Google Maps it looks like his house, or his parents at least. CarSales pictures indicate VW Caddy photos were taken outside said house.
    9. The next day I send him a SMS saying I can't make the inspection, can we rearrange? He says he's only available on that day. I make up a story and say I work fulltime on that day too, and will let him know if I can get off work.
    10. At this point, I kind of want him to try scam me out of $150 so I can drag his name through the courts and destroy him - I want it to balloon to $1000 with court costs and have a warrant put out for arrest. I start sending him strongly worded SMS's with my original phone, first & second warnings, and demanding payment, and being civil and formal at all times. I start drafting up a Letter of Demand, and have 4 methods of delivery (2 x physical addresses, 1 mobile, 1 email).
    11. 3rd week in, he finally replies, advising he's had the flu and hasn't been avoiding me. He starts complaining about poor fitment of the bonnet on his vehicle. I advise I took a lot of photos of the item, with it on my own vehicle, and suggested he get a professional to fit the bonnet if he can't do it himself. I strongly demand payment again.
    12. I don't hear anything from him again but 2 days later $150 turns up available in my bank account.
    • No ONE on 09/11/2019 - 12:14
      +3

      Cool story bro. For $150 going through that length, for $2000 you must be going for a hitman.

    • Zachary on 10/11/2019 - 02:08

      Hah, you're lucky he had whatsapp, if he didn't or don't even use it, you would have been screwed! hahaha

  • sayako on 09/11/2019 - 10:34

    Any members who works in the police force or know how much I can share to not hinder with police investigations?

  • living4music on 09/11/2019 - 11:49

    Your post is quite confusing. Better make it simple and Clear so people understand what really happened.

  • blonky on 09/11/2019 - 11:50

    Yeah had the same thing but the exact opposite

    Was interested in something on gumtree based in WA (I'm in NSW) and asked for a shipping quote.

    The guy asked for my address to get the quote - then two days later the item arrives on my doorstep - we haven't even discussed payment nor has he given me his bank account at this stage

    Paid in full but he was very trusting

  • lynxlyric55 on 09/11/2019 - 13:31

    lesson learnt.

  • Vote for Pedro on 09/11/2019 - 14:00

    plot twist - there never was a phone.

  • DemocracyManifest on 09/11/2019 - 14:20

    Lol and if you cancelled the plan you might be in for a further surprise with Telstra and ETCs if you haven’t already backed up your conversations

  • Hamlet on 09/11/2019 - 14:27

    Unfortunately, I don't think there's much you can do at this point other than to learn from it.

    II got scammed too a couple of years back selling a Macbook Air. I reported it to the police and also posted about the scam on Ozbargain. A few months later, an investigator who was investigating the particular scammer I mentioned found me through my Ozbargain post and asked me for details. But nothing happened after that. I can only hope justice is served for the scammer…

  • Plug on 09/11/2019 - 15:30

    At this point it's unclear to me whether OP has been scammed or whether it's just a case of waiting for a cheque to clear.

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