Manual Vs Auto. What's Your Preference?

pegaxs on 16/09/2019 - 10:01

Got to talking at work the other day with a few friends and customers about the shift in the automotive industry towards vehicles with automatic transmissions (and I'm lumping everything in with "auto" that do not require user input to frequently change gears. DC, DSG, CVT, Automated manual, etc.).

This fired up a debate on "what's best" and bought out a lot of valid debate from both sides (and a lot of invalid, posturing as well). It was still undecided and on the fence either way. So, I thought I would throw it out to the worlds best automotive forum, and see what they say.

So, the question was;

This week, you are out to purchase a new car. This car is going to be your daily driver for 80~90% of the time, with the odd weekend to do what you want. The car you have settled on is now down to selecting options. We are at the "gearbox" selection when the salesperson offers you "What ever you want, we have that as an option".

What would you pick, and why?

Poll Options

  • 314
    Traditional Manual
  • 319
    Traditional Automatic
  • 28
    Mixed Mode (step/tipronic type)
  • 45
    DSG/DC/Automated Manual
  • 19
    CVT
  • 10
    Other (see comments)
Automotive

Comments

  • Archi on 16/09/2019 - 10:08
    +61

    depends on the car

    Manual camry? NO.

    Automatic GTR? NO

    • ShortyX on 16/09/2019 - 10:20
      +12

      Doesn't a GT-R have a DCT (automatic) transmission?

      • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 10:22
        +7

        yep R35 GTR auto only

    • pegaxs on 16/09/2019 - 10:23
      +4

      This car is going to be your daily driver for 80~90% of the time

      Nissan GTR is your daily driver? How's that go for picking up the shopping and your morning work commute?

      • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 10:52
        +87

        Pick up my bread and milk 1/4 mile at a time

        • pegaxs on 16/09/2019 - 10:54
          +11

          From home to the shops in 10.8 @ 187… :D

          • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 11:24
            +18

            @pegaxs: Perfect car for shopping really.

            When in a paid parking lot launch control comes in handy. Once the car in front pays, goes through, just use launch control for 2 for 1 special before the gate goes back down.

            Ideal ozbargainer car, GTR pays for itself IMO

        • ireadtermsofuse on 17/09/2019 - 12:05

          Get to the shops in 1st gear all the way

        • dcep on 19/09/2019 - 09:45
          +1

          don't forget your tuna on white no crust

      • Archi on 16/09/2019 - 11:14
        +1

        I've seen regularly on the weekend a dude pick up his mum from the shops with bags of groceries from the Asian markets in a GTR35. not sure if he does it daily but certainly does it often on the weekends.

      • ATTS on 16/09/2019 - 14:24
        +1

        just curious, what is wrong with a GTR for a daily? cant you just drive slow when you need to ?

        • krisspy on 16/09/2019 - 14:58
          +6

          Suspension is no better than a shopping trolley

          • Zondor on 16/09/2019 - 16:30

            @krisspy: Tbh I like hard suspension over soft.

          • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 16:36
            +1

            @krisspy: nothing wrong, just depreciation and insurance costs. Cheaper to run two cars.

            RE: suspension, Opposite, R35 I found on par with a C class. Smooth ride tbh

    • skywards on 16/09/2019 - 13:45
      +1

      My older sis had a late model 80’s manual Camry back in the day, it was fun to ride with her.

      • dcash on 16/09/2019 - 14:01
        +29

        I'll bet that's what all the boys said…

        • Kamsi on 17/09/2019 - 11:14
          +2

          :) speechless

      • subywagon on 17/09/2019 - 09:24
        +3

        You're not from Tassie too are you?

    • endolphin on 18/09/2019 - 20:36
      +1

      I used to own a manual V6 Camry, and that thing was pretty quick!

  • holoz0r on 16/09/2019 - 10:10
    +8

    Petrol / Diesel - Manual.

    When I get my next car, which will hopefully be electric or hydrogen fuel cell based, or whatever other tech is deemed "green" by then - that'll be the end of that manual choice.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/09/2019 - 17:30

      Yeah good luck with that seeing as the biggest proponent of fuel cell cars, Toyota, has stopped making them and are focusing on batteries. (The smart way to go, fuel cells in cars are dumb).

    • md333 on 25/09/2020 - 16:13

      Most electrics are manual. Single speed clutchless manual, but they don't have an auto gearbox.

  • geek001 on 16/09/2019 - 10:13
    +12

    We bought a new car recently, the idea of manual is a lot of more fun because it reminded us of our younger more carefree years, but in reality it is more work when we did the test drive. We finally realised that we are now more "auto" people. :)

    • Spam Service on 16/09/2019 - 13:20
      +6

      We finally realised that we are now more "auto" people.

      Autos have also come a long way in the last 10-15 years. Many models that are 8 speed now were 4 speed 10 years ago.

    • Ulysses31 on 16/09/2019 - 22:05
      +1

      Same here.

      I've got an extensive driving history, yet only only owned 3 cars, two being muscle cars. Never chose the gearbox - they were particular cars/deals I was getting.

      I love & support the idea of manual. But not only do I think I've aged into an auto and autos have 6+ more ratios compared to then… I drive a lot more sedate in an auto. Muscle car becomes cruiser, with the odd burst. That part remained 20yrs, for me.

      But as others have said, auto vs manual is a tin of worms.

      • djandymarc on 17/09/2019 - 08:31

        It sucks these days that you don't even get the option of a manual.
        My current Jeep is auto purely because in the large 4wd segment no one offers a manual these days.
        I bought an Octavia rs back in 2010. Wanted a manual. The dealership said if I wanted one now you can get a black one only and it's Still a month wait. If I wanted an auto I could have gotten it in any colour straight away.
        Needless to say I got a black manual.
        In Europe most cars are offered in either transmission so I don't know why it cant be the same here.
        An people who say driving a manual is a pain in traffic obviously don't drive manual that often!

        • Jackson on 17/09/2019 - 21:53
          +2

          Driving an old car with a heavy clutch used to be a pain, but these days the clutch is light as and you can pop it in gear without hardly pressing down in most cars

          • Never Pay RRP on 18/09/2019 - 02:12

            @Jackson: Or you could drive an auto and not need to worry about a clutch at all.
            I'm in the same boat as the original replier on this thread, when I was 18 it was manual all the way (200sx). After my mid-20s auto is just fine

          • Commander Shepard on 18/09/2019 - 17:19
            +1

            @Jackson: Agreed. The ND MX-5 I had was a breeze to shift in stop start traffic compared to the 90s Japanese sports cars. Not tiring at all and can easily be done daily. I had a R34 in manual and it sucked as a daily.

            • Jackson on 18/09/2019 - 18:42
              +1

              @Commander Shepard: I had a Mitsubishi Cordia, and in a two week period where daily trip of an hour in traffic was happening one of my knees started clicking. Don't know of I ever fully recovered

        • brad1-8tsi on 20/09/2019 - 08:45

          @djandymarc

          But the Octy/VW gearbox/clutch is very refined and easy to use.

          • djandymarc on 22/09/2019 - 08:33
            +1

            @brad1-8tsi: Any newish car is easy to use.
            The only one of my cars that wasn't so easy was my vx commodore but that had a brass button clutch in it. My current mazda 3 sp25 is so smooth as well. No car has ever been a proven for me to drive in traffic.

  • SnowDragon on 16/09/2019 - 10:20
    +23

    Whatever will give me the best fuel economy.

    • ShortyX on 16/09/2019 - 10:24
      +32

      You have just levelled up in OzBargain rep.

      • fantombloo on 16/09/2019 - 10:37
        +13

        Fuel economy may be negated by poorer resale value of manual in many car categories.

        • dasher86 on 16/09/2019 - 10:47
          +13

          But maybe offset by theft deterrent as many 'new' drivers these days don't know how to drive manual.

          • fantombloo on 16/09/2019 - 10:50

            @dasher86: Would be interesting to see insurance premium comparisons for auto/manual versions of the same car in the same place.

        • alexwar on 17/09/2019 - 10:29

          Not my experience. Yes much less volumes ( 20% of the market if any ) and almost a niche market. However people that drive manuals tend to take more care about cars and know exactly what they want. So yes may take more time to sell it but in terms of resale opposite experience. But I agree that also depends on the car and category. A Toyota Camry Manual will depreciate more…no doubt because of the market that drive that vehicle.

        • jsheroes on 19/09/2019 - 09:49

          In most cases (cars built in the last 5+ years), the auto is now more fuel efficient.

        • brad1-8tsi on 20/09/2019 - 08:47

          @thevofa

          I think the rarity of manuals these days brings a premium price but with a much narrower band of buyers. So you might have to wait a bit but you'll get a better price than the equivalent auto.

  • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 10:20
    +19

    /Slaps roof of my current gen WRX STI only available in 6-speed manual.

    I like manual because I think its more fun and engaging. That said horses for courses, honestly after driving a Tesla model S, Id say single gear no gearbox is the way to go. Single gear with regen braking, one peddle driving. Good for daily commute in a golf kart kinda way.

    • HighAndDry on 16/09/2019 - 11:49
      +4

      Yeah, as I've gotten older, my priority has changed from "Fun to drive" to "Easy to use appliance".

      I still rock a stick shift but more and more I find myself thinking damn I wish I had a hand free to do XYZ instead.

      • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 12:05
        +4

        Same, its what I loved about the Tesla but too expensive for that luxury.

        in NSW XYZ is illegal, that said I'm able to drive a 6 speed STI in traffic while drinking a large Mocha frappe and scratch myself, thats still legal at least…

        • Kill Joy on 16/09/2019 - 21:59
          +1

          Well, is it actually legal? I'm sure a police officer could pin you under the 'distracted driver' category for sipping and spilling a mocha while driving. The laws are as blurry as they want them to be.

          • Caped Baldy on 16/09/2019 - 22:30

            @Kill Joy: Legal but you can't have fun.

          • Bid Sniper on 17/09/2019 - 11:48

            @Kill Joy: Drinking a beverage is still legal as well as smoking (cringe) while driving.

            I'm sure a police officer could make a silly charge like that but I give them no excuse to pull me over, despite my car being a cop magnet (its black, with black tinted windows, black wheels and a large rear wing, bbllllaaaccckkkk).

            • Kill Joy on 17/09/2019 - 12:07

              @Bid Sniper: In the same vein as using a phone in a cradle is legal, but there are ways they can get you for it if they want to. The point im trying to make is, dont assume you wont get fined for something just because one interpret ion of your activity is legal. Because there is 10 other ways what your doing can be skewed to illegal.

              E.g. I'm pretty sure smart watches are illegal to use while driving. Will you get fined for glancing at the time?

          • R-Man on 17/09/2019 - 14:06
            +1

            @Kill Joy: Username checks out :(

    • Dreamcast on 16/09/2019 - 16:30

      I too slapped my 2016 wrx sti.

      I've driven auto a handful of times. It's terrible. Looks like I'm stalling it half the time. But I'll admit, if I drove to work, manual would become so tedious.

      I have my days where I drive like shit, but the days when you change gears like a boss, nothing compares, especially with poly shifter bushings and a short shifter

      • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 16:37

        So finally got the STI short shifter installed? What did I tell you

        • Dreamcast on 16/09/2019 - 16:53

          Got it installed a week ago. I knew from my old car, brass shifter bushings plus a short shifter, that this would be good, but damn, the difference. My shift game has gone up 99 levels.

  • trustnoone on 16/09/2019 - 10:22
    +1

    Automatic for daily driver and as per your situation above for me, I'm looking for a car to get me from A to B and to not break down often, give me the least amount of time I have to think about it and let me drive easily in the city.

    If however I was going for a more 'fun' type car, dodge, GTR something I was splashing cash on because I won the lotto and wanted something fun, I'd go manual.

  • brad1-8tsi on 16/09/2019 - 10:22

    I've had manuals, torque converter autos and CVTs and prefer (and currently drive) a manual.

    Alas, I doubt manual will be offered as an option in the next car I buy.

    • ShortyX on 16/09/2019 - 10:27

      prefer (and currently drive) a manual

      Out of interest, I'm curious to know your reasons.

      • brad1-8tsi on 16/09/2019 - 12:10
        +1

        I prefer the engagement with driving and being able to choose what gear I'm in. I know you can change gears in an auto but the amount of time I've selected a gear and "gearbox says no" is frustrating.

        I also prefer the simplicity and durability of a manual.

        My current manual (Skoda Octavia 6 speed which is a VW/Audi gearbox) is light and easy to use - possibly the best gearbox/clutch I've had. I also drive a manual Y2K Mazda 323 a lot and it's fun too. I have had some real crap gearboxes as well.

        NB: I've had ~12 cars with manuals, 20+ with torque converter autos and 3 with CVT. Sometimes circumstances say you have an auto…

        • Harold Halfprice on 16/09/2019 - 20:23
          +1

          Do you drive in traffic much?

          I used to daily a car with a heavy duty clutch, it was a bit of a pain but I didn't really mind even in traffic. But my daily commute was never that long.

          I just got a job that's going to require an hour long commute in traffic, and at the same time looking at getting a new car. On the fence about manual/auto.

          • brad1-8tsi on 17/09/2019 - 15:58

            @Harold Halfprice: From 2007-2015: I commuted Hurstville-Campbelltown against the traffic M-F plus whatever other suburban driving I did. 2007/08 was in a Mk3 Golf Cabrio and then I got the Octavia which has the similar drivetrain to a circa 2008 Mk5 Golf/ Audi A3. Even against the traffic the M5 could be gridlocked but it wasn't a drama with the manual.

            2016/17: I got transferred to the CBD and used public transport so car use was whatever I did on the w/ends.

            2017- now: I moved to the Newtown / Zetland / Redfern area. I only do 5000km/year now but there is always traffic to deal with.

            I probably wouldn't get a manual Amarok/HiLux/Triton but I'd have no issues getting (for instance) a manual Audi S3 or similar.

            I drove a lot of M2 & Mk3 Land Rovers and was taught how to drive a crash gearbox Nubian fire tender when I was 19 so I started with a lot of "character building" cars.

            All you can do is test drive the car you like and see if it will fit with your commute. Driving is meant to be fun, not miserable

  • ShortyX on 16/09/2019 - 10:22
    +2

    Do all traditional automatics nowadays have some sort of manual (tiptronic) feature?

  • Some Human on 16/09/2019 - 10:29
    +2

    Traditional manual, because I think driving would become boring in an automatic.
    I would only consider a switch to auto if I was frequently stuck in slow moving traffic, or if I somehow lost a foot or an arm.

  • Marcsie on 16/09/2019 - 10:31
    +4

    Of course Manual !
    Automatic ? Oh no so boring !
    I have Subaru WRX, Turbo, AWD and … Manual !
    Love it :)

    • boomramada on 16/09/2019 - 10:49
      +8

      Try driving in Syd CBD every day in a Manual, it's so annoying.
      Manual is only interesting in a country road with lots of turns.

      • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 10:51
        +13

        I did, its annoying no matter what transmission.

      • brad1-8tsi on 16/09/2019 - 12:54

        I have done with a manual / still do. It's no big deal with the right car.

        • boomramada on 16/09/2019 - 14:06
          +1

          One free foot vs one foot continuously on clutch on balance on up hill, it is a big deal. Doesn't matter what manual car you drive.

          • brad1-8tsi on 16/09/2019 - 14:47
            +1

            @boomramada: My foot isn't continually on the clutch, nor do i use it for balance on a hill. That sounds like riding the clutch.

            I have 250nm between 1800rpm and 5500rpm Somewhere in the middle it's 330nm. The car is a doddle to drive. The clutch is light and the shifts are like a hot knife through butter but i agree, some manuals would be very frustrating.

          • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 16:51
            +2

            @boomramada: driving it wrong, dont ride the clutch.

  • spackbace on 16/09/2019 - 10:33
    +1

    As with some posters, manual for certain sports cars, auto for the rest.

    And yes, very difficult to find manual new cars unless it's in the base models

    • fantombloo on 16/09/2019 - 10:46
      +2

      manual for certain sports cars, auto for the rest.

      That is counter-intuitive to me.

      I'll go with manual in a small cheap buzzbox just because I want to eke out every last drop of power to make it a more tolerable drive.

      The more torque on tap the more I'd consider an auto.

      • spackbace on 16/09/2019 - 10:47
        +10

        Yeah hence why 'some' sports cars. A manual 86, for example, is a better prospect than the auto.

        When you're dealing with more high powered stuff, and the auto will shift far quicker than you possibly could, then auto isnt a bad thing.

        • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 11:01
          -1

          The great equaliser so many people with high end performance cars lose out on drag races they pick out because they can't drive properly then go home embarrassed

          • spackbace on 16/09/2019 - 11:02
            +11

            @Toons: Many modern auto boxes can shift faster than a standard manual. Those with 3 pedals don't lose out due to inability, they lose out to the sheer fact that you can't shift as fast

            • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 13:35
              -7

              @spackbace: Didn't argue that and I'd agree with you, but it comes down to competence again competent drivers with good reaction times should nearly always come out on top, but I've seen it go the other way so many times with identical cars besides the gearbox including the 86 you mention I've seen so many identical manuals get up over the auto

              If you want to go performance The hellcat manual beat the auto by 2 seconds down the quarter the auto did have the the higher top speed over all on the runs they did.

              you are perhaps mistaking 3 pedalboards inability with the person being able to read their car and shift at the right time even with flappy paddles even you can't deny it's a skill

              • spackbace on 16/09/2019 - 13:40
                +7

                @Toons:

                If you want to go performance The hellcat manual beat the auto by 2 seconds down the quarter the auto did have the the higher top speed over all on the runs they did.

                Where? What's your source? You realise that 2 seconds difference on a 1/4 mile time is huge!

                https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/a22026777/2018-dodge-ch…

                the Challenger Hellcat Widebody automatic hits 60 mph in 3.8 seconds and storms through the quarter in 11.8 seconds at 126 mph. With the manual, however, it’s a 4.0-second run to 60 mph and a 12.4-second quarter-mile at 120 mph.

                So they tested the Challenger Hellcat and found the auto was 0.6secs quicker down the 1/4.

                Again, to have a 2 second gap is huge, and either a really bad launch or different power levels. Ask anyone that's raced down the 1/4 and they'll tell you just how hard it can be to fight for every second, how much more needs to be spent.

                • [Deactivated] on 16/09/2019 - 14:26
                  +3

                  @spackbace: The guy driving the auto probably had the hand brake on.

                • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 14:29
                  -4

                  @spackbace: you just answered my point

                  Again, to have a 2 second gap is huge, and either a really bad launch or different power

                  I already stated the power levels were identical

                  I used to race 1/4 for money so yes I know the difference

                  Anyone can read a stat sheet not everyone can drive!!

                  • spackbace on 16/09/2019 - 14:51
                    +4

                    @Toons: You never told me where you found a time difference of 2 seconds? I provided evidence, you still haven't.

                    The great equaliser so many people with high end performance cars lose out on drag races they pick out because they can't drive properly then go home embarrassed

                    Again, it's not due to inability to shift gears with 3 pedals, it's due to the sheer speed of gear changes on modern auto gearboxes.

                    Skill, or lack thereof, can't make up for the technological differences.

                    • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 14:56
                      -2

                      @spackbace: obviously don't race then!! enough said I think

                      If you work in the industry you should know all this at one point did I ever say the gearboxes were not quicker I just said the equaliser is that not everyone can drive

                      take one of your brochures and see If you can replicate the times with proof

                      • spackbace on 16/09/2019 - 15:06

                        @Toons: Yeah no manufacturer puts 1/4mile times on brochures…

                        And those times on the article were what the writers actually tested, not manufacturer numbers.

                        See here for their times in 2015… Again, editorial tested.

                        I'm still wondering where your 2-second difference article/video is…?

                        • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 15:12
                          -3

                          @spackbace: wonder no more

                          and there are plenty of others including one with Nico Rosberg pantsing a friends new Auto

                          once again competence

                    • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 15:09
                      -2

                      @spackbace: (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dn7CK_jxV_U)

                      I know the Mclaren changes in an estimated 8 milliseconds (estimate because they have nothing to actually verify the data) but you have been trying to prove the wrong argument

                      • spackbace on 16/09/2019 - 15:17

                        @Toons: Wait… the auto beat the manual in that video…

                        You said:

                        The hellcat manual beat the auto by 2 seconds down the quarter

                        Where?

                        • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 15:24
                          -2

                          @spackbace: sorry my mistake 1.2seconds and change still beat it

                          • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 15:27
                            -1

                            @Toons: You didn't watch all of it from your comment.

                            so why bother asking for proof if you can't be bothered even looking at it properly

                          • spackbace on 16/09/2019 - 15:28
                            +1

                            @Toons: Ah their overall conclusion was the automatic was quicker, it ran the best time overall…

                            https://youtu.be/dn7CK_jxV_U?t=420

                            12.46 is the automatic, with a really shit r/t

                            • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 15:31
                              -2

                              @spackbace: like I said not always the case the first run the manual got the bad start

                              the auto no excuse really

                              but I'll ask you for clarity did the manual beat the auto in a Fair head to head run?

                          • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 16:45

                            @Toons: Telsa has no gearbox and beat the Hellcat and Demon, last few videos I saw Demon crapped it self and had to be towed home.

                            If you look at the sub 10s 1/4mile cars, most get sequential auto gearbox put in.

                            I love manual but drag racing auto is the fastest option under 12s

                            • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 17:11

                              @Bid Sniper: No arguments from me, simply pointing out a few truths that you can have all the tech in the world same cars 2 different configurations in transmission and the auto isn't guaranteed the win because of that one fact alone.

                              My daily drive runs sub 12's and yes it's an auto, but take a few more systems offline and breaking traction can be enough to lose the run

                              once again (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zOXKR1R8EaU)

              • TEER3X on 19/09/2019 - 10:00

                @Toons: I've been in an srt demon, fastest production car (at the time I think) 0-60mph. I wasn't driving, but saw my life flash before my eyes, it was scary fast and things got blurry almost instantly.

                Couldn't tell you if it was auto or manual because I was too worried about crapping my pants

  • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 10:44

    There are a few that only come as manual Ford Focus RS which also has drift mode so it's a much more engaging experience, despite the drift mode if you love driving. if you're scooting from a-b sitting in traffic, hill starts go the auto, get the dynamic cruise control and let the car do most of the work the new Nissan only has one pedal for the accelerator / brake so that will be fun to watch, I love my manuals but time and place and I can get most of the fun out of the same fun out of the flappy paddles, saying that to really let it loose you end up turning off a few safety systems to get it to chuck around / race mode.

    I guess ask yourself what you really want and go with it.

    I'm glad I learnt in a manual and majority of cars have been manual till last 3 and I enjoyed the manuals more because I like to drive but my current one has a seven speed flappy paddle and it's my favourite by far because of what it can do but it's a an expensive toy

    • [Deactivated] on 17/09/2019 - 09:50
      +1

      With hill start assist, hills aren't any different from taking off from any other stop, what's more annoying is driving around a hilly area in a 60 zone and having the person in front of you in an automatic unable to keep their speed reasonably constant, going from 60-35-60 at the top of the hill and back down. Having to change down two gears every crest of a hill sucks.

  • Ryanek on 16/09/2019 - 10:45

    Automatic for everyone else please. It's a little annoying when people wait at the bottom of a parking on ramp because they don't want roll back their car.

    • Toons on 16/09/2019 - 10:58
      +5

      Hand Brake and clutch control it's not actually hard just people don't a, give them enough space because they think everyone is in auto's b, people don't practice it as much as they should if they aren't competent.

    • Bid Sniper on 16/09/2019 - 11:26

      Manual Subarus 2010 on have hill assist, dont roll back.

      • md333 on 16/09/2019 - 11:43
        +2

        More like 1986 on.

    • dcash on 16/09/2019 - 12:48
      -1

      Sadly it's not only people driving a manual who do this. Perhaps they're worried that a car further up the ramp will roll back? Either way, it's damned annoying!

    • SpotTheOzzie on 16/09/2019 - 13:26
      +1

      Whats the rush to queue on a ramp if you don't lose time overall?

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