Hi all,
I'm thinking to purchase a Corolla Hybrid. My purpose is for commuting to work during peak hours (slow traffic speed).
After considering the depreciation cost of the battery, do you think I can save significant amount of money (e.g. after 10 years) compared to the petrol version?
Thank you for joining the discussion.
What is the expected life other original battery? I saw a fist gen RX400h with 300,000KM selling under $10K, still have the original battery. Is it close to the end of the battery life?
Not sure tbh
Even less infrastructure for hydrogen vehicles. At least a PHEV or EV you can charge at home/work/anywhere there is a spare power point. Not that easy to fuel up at home or anywhere for that matter with a FC.
InB4: you just use tap water to fill it… If anyone thinks that, you need to read up on what fuel cell vehicles are and what they run on…
Don't forget to add your "Hyclone" and your fuel polarity magnetizer!
Be careful here. If you look up the servicing schedual for a corolla hybrid, one of the service (95000 kms if I recall correcly) costs 1700+ for them to clean out the battery cooling air intake component
My purpose is for commuting to work during peak hours (slow traffic speed).
Why considering an expensive hybrid, with a complex combination of a petrol engine AND electric motors?
Why not considering a real fully electric vehicle like a Nissan Leaf?
If distances are short (within range) it will be best.
No fuel. EVER!
Pre-loved Leaf imports from Japan around $16,000 total. See Whirlpool forum for details (not mine).
Once the batteries go it will cost us a fortune everyone i know who has purchased a 'hybrid' to save money has lost in the long run due to high battery costs
$2500-$3000
Should last at least 10yrs/200,000km
If they cost a fortune, you wouldn't find uber/taxi drivers using them…
You can claim that on tax….that is they they use them…
I still wouldn't figure that as "a fortune". It wasn't that long ago that people were paying $1200-$1500 for timing belt services.
@spackbace: fair enough but i think OP is asking from purely a financial perspective
If you are looking at the money side of things hybrids dont add up (for personal usage)
If you are looking at the money side of things hybrids dont add up (for personal usage)
Hybrid Camry, at his use-case scenario of 10,000km/yr, would cost only 3.15 years to pay back the $1500 difference.
So that's only 3yrs/30,000km of use. The battery would still be under warranty for another 7yrs/unlimited kms.
So after 3.15yrs, it's pure savings until the 10yr+ mark.
Not to mention brake pads last longer on hybrids, lower insurance and registration costs.
If you were the average driver, doing 20,000kms/yr, you'd pay back the $1500 premium in about 18 months on a Camry Hybrid over it's petrol equivalent.
Tell me again why they don't add up?
Brake pads cost what,$50?
True, but brake pads turn energy from acceleration (from petrol) into heat and dust. When you use that energy to generate electricity to then use for acceleration you are saving brake pads and petrol.
Tax deduction doesn't make things magically free. If the cost of battery is a big dent into their pocket then it's still detrimental even after tax deduction.
Otherwise you will see Porsche and Maserati UBER/Taxis
The new Toyota Corolla Hybrid uses 95 RON or above.
When I went to the local dealership they didn't even know this fact.
I believe this applies to all new Toyota Hybrid now.
This means you need to factor in the cost of 95 RON versus driving a normal car using unleaded.
The new Toyota Corolla Hybrid uses 95 RON or above.
Argh this has been mentioned many times on this post. New Hybrid Camry - Premium, new hybrid Corolla - Regular. Old hybrid Corolla - Premium
toyota.com
Really?
How about you look at Aus sources to prove a point?
Like I can here:
Redbook
Recommended RON Rating 91
Or do I need to go take a photo of the fuel cap sticker for you?
@spackbace: hello this is toyota HQ, pls hand in your badge for breaching the social media policy. thank you
Wait…..I thought you worked for Suzuki spackbace?
About 2yrs ago I left, been with Toyota since :)
Not John Hughes. Please, God no!
JH doesn't sell Toyota ;)
@spackbace: Yeah I forgot they're mostly Mitsu. They currently have 190 used Toyotas
https://www.johnhughes.com.au/buy-new-used-cars/list?q=%28%7…
Don't miss their ads
"Near new, low mileage, with balance of new car warranty from John Hughes, on the Albany Highway, near the airport roundabout in Vic Park"
@Speckled Jim: Yeah he tried to billboard the commercials part as "Toyota Used Commercials" or some shit, tried to make the signs Toyota red colour as well.
Lasted a couple of weeks till it got changed back ;)
I hate refueling - so the notion of going to the bowser less often is appealing to some people, if not for any other reason this is a +1 for a hybrid (not sure if the hybrid gets a smaller tank which would then mitigate this benefit)
I currently have a hybrid and used to have quite a few hybrids.
Personally, I won't buy a hybrid for fuel savings; according to my experience they tend to depreciate a lot more than normal cars purely due to general public fear about battery failure. And the second hand crowd is limited. I for one, would be specifically looking for a hybrid because I personally like the seamless driving experience but that's not everyone's cup of tea. I bought my hybrid cars second hand for bargain prices and saved heaps (significantly more savings from less purchase price than fuel savings) but then again when it comes to selling, I struggled (expectedly).
Like many have mentioned you will be saving more from less maintenance (almost half the maintenance cost compared to a regular car). And you will appreciate more features and less noise in the cabin. You will enjoy longer km range without refueling. And you will get 8 year warranty for the battery so if you sell the car within this period you probably won't have any issues (even second hand pricing may not be that bad within warranty period). Even after 8 year warranty, battery lasts a lot longer. Worse case scenario, there are quite a few third parties who does replacement battery packs (or individual cells) from as low as couple of hundred dollars.
Agree wtih the "seamless driving experience". I went from a previous manual 6-cyl sports car to a hybrid CVT. Took a bit of getting used to, but now appreciate the coming to a stop with zero noise & vibration, then taking off at the lights with zero noise & vibration. By the time the petrol engine kicks in, the road noise & vibration already outweighs the engine. Putting the foot down doesn't give quite instantaneous response, but the "sports mode" makes it more tolerable when necessary. The CVT is a huge change from hearing & feeling gear shifts, but now very used to it. I don't think this is about fuel cost savings; it's about the overall experience. And the 1000km range between refuels.
Actually Hybrid's instant acceleration in my humble opinion is quicker than normal cars. For an example, 0-60 km/h speed gain from a hybrid would be quicker than most of the other cars even when you foot down to the bottom. After 60 km/h the story may be different however. I do have a Suzuki Swift sports model which can do 0-100 km under 7 seconds and for Prius this figure is close to 10 seconds. But Suzuki is slower when picking up but accelerate much quicker after about 50 km/h whereas Prius picks up instantly and then accelerates seamlessly all the way. At the end sports car would win but only after seeing the back of the Prius in the beginning.. LOL
In "standard" driving mode, there's a noticeable delay between slamming the foot down & the acceleration surge kicking in, from a rolling start of, say, 20km/h, with or without the petrol motor already running. In "sports" mode, the delay is less, but still not as quick as my previous manual gearbox car.
Edit: I test drove a Tesla for fun last year. The acceleration was just about instantaneous on putting the foot down. I think that's probably the difference between the larger electric motor of the Tesla vs the smaller hybrid electric motor.
There was a driver in Adelaide who put semi slicks on a prius and could outrun any skyline on any cruise through the hills. It was hilarious.
Just get a 10-year old Echo/Yaris/Swift. You'll save much more over 5-10 years. You could get a manual to save even more, but it won't be enjoyable (money is happiness, after all).
They cost a fortune for some reason. How much should a 10yr old Echo/Yaris/Swift go for? Its not too much of a saving over a new car considering wear and obsolesce.
I bought my Swift for 2.9k unregistered.
Just random facts for people who care about the environment.
Changing from typical SUV to Prius reduces CO2 emission by 3.6 tonnes/yr
Going vegan is about 1.2 tonnes/yr
I'm fairly sure I saw reports detailing that once you take into account the industry involved in manufacturing a prius, it's battery, and it's electrical engine it loses out on the greenie factor quite substantially. Which is hilarious.
I've had an Outlander PHEV for a few years now. I get about 80km on battery alone. It's great for local trips such as school runs, shops, trips to work on light traffic etc. We do pay less for fuel these days
How much is it? I can't get build cost from the website.
Bought new for about $50k. The 2014 model can be had for about $21K
How can that be when mitsubishi claim 54km and none of the road tests got better than 45km?
Regenerative braking is a god send in my area. We definitely clock ~50km on a charge without it. Battery health is still in fantastic condition too
I wouldn't buy Hybrid car for now. The battery last just like my mobile phone battery :)
I bought a Nissan Leaf, it costs me ZERO in fuel, I charge it for FREE on solar every 2-3 days and it plugs into any 240V wall plug if I need to top up.
If you don't have solar then you can set charge timers to charge during night time tariffs which would cost me $1.62 every 2-3 days.
Your “fuel” isn’t free. You forgot to factor in the lost grid feed-in credit.
How do you get paid if you don't get feed in credit?
Depending on the area you are in, it's cheaper not to have your meter reconfigured and be on a solar plan as it'll cost more (about $1k a year extra). In my case, it's best to use the excess power by storing it for evening/night use and charging electric cars during the day.
How do you get paid if you don't get feed in credit?
Why don’t you get feed in credit?
And what if you don't have solar and night time tariffs?
Really your car costs 5kw to charge? nice
LOL, sounds like you need your ozbargain login revoked :P
Yeah my solar plan didn't go as planned and well.. it is hard to explain lol
The Truth About Hybrid Cars, Buyer Beware - By Scotty Kilmer
Summary
Cost of Hybrid car + Repairs + Parts > Fuel savings. If you care about the environment buy it. If you care about the money saved on fuel then don't.
Whilst I like Scotty's videos, assumptions made & conclusions reached based on US petrol pricing, isn't valid in OZ:
Just to set the record straight, NO new car is 'worth it'. They all cost a lot and if you're buying new you are essentially buying a luxury item. If you applied the same figures above from Spackbase to a couple-year-old vehicle you will more than likely see savings in the first year, depending on your finance arrangements.
I find most 1-year old low kms car are only about 10% cheaper?
Its less than 5% difference between a new car and 1 year old car after haggling. I just buy a new one. You want a good deal go for 5+ year old and sell before its 10 year old.
Sorry I meant difference in cost between a hybrid and standard. Both are new cars.
So what would be a good second hand Camry Hybrid to buy? I like the current models but don't like the 45K pricetag. :)
Also, when is a battery considered stuffed? Is it at 50% of capacity for example and is there a monitor gauge for customers to keep an eye on that?
cheers
Wait a couple of years and then buy the 2019 model, as there's a sizable performance difference between the old & new Camry. Batteries in Toyota Hybrids have been shown to be ok for ~8+ years
Cheers, I can wait no problems…as long as 'ol Magna doesn't fall apart in the meantime. :)
Lol, it'll be worth the wait coming from a Magna :)
Wait a couple of years and then buy the 2019 model, as there's a sizable performance difference between the old & new Camry.
The current model Camry (70 series) has been on the market since late 2017.
December 2017, though that was just the 1x demo every dealer got, the rest came around Feb 2018
I looked at those but because the current model is so popular, even 2nd hand vehicles are going for near new prices—even the old model!
Good for people who are buying brand new now but it does make you wonder, eventually when Toyota catch up with demand, people who bought one 2nd hand at a high price will be facing really high depreciation.
Battery shortage on new Camry hybrids would be driving up the resale. Wait 4-6 months for new one, or just pay near that for a 1yo one, which would you pick lol
(wait time is now down to 3 months or so, still sucky)
Spackbace, Corolla Hybrid or Prius-C?
Corolla hybrid by a country mile
I'm leaning towards sub-20k cars like suzuki swift or skoda fabia. Because I think the much cheaper price over compensate the slightly higher fuel consumption.
I will however consider the rav4 hybrid in the future to replace my wife's car.
No. Because they don't come in manual transmission.
Nor does a Landcruiser 200. Would you turn down a Sahara?
Yeah I would if I was in the market for a vehicle like that. Just don't want to contribute to the demand for auto transmission. I struggled to get a 2010+ 4dr luxury manual car and was quite limited on options. Couldn't imagine what it'd be like in 6 years' time.
Manual has its place, but imo that's only in small cars where it helps the power delivery.
Autos shift faster and generally have better economy.
You and a mate take sports cars round a track. His auto shifts faster, and try as you might you just can't catch him. How would you feel?
@spackbace: I still think a manual will outperform even a double clutch on a track simply because you are able to hold the gear when approaching a bend and control it exactly the way you want. Besides, the transmission on track is negligible as it comes down to a lot of skill in attacking certain types of turns and optimising your throttle and steering. A stick shift gives you that extra bit of control. And I could be generalising by saying this but I think manual drivers are better at driving. By better I mean being more capable at parking, entering/exiting roundabouts and cutting through traffic. Yeah this type of driving is hoonish but I'm just trying to make my point. An auto car (even double clutch) to me is soulless, lacks character, lacks enjoyment and simply put, a less engaging machine. I've driven the new arteon, stage 2 APR golf R mk6, c63s amg coupe and they were was fast, but more boring than my 2010 manual A3 and 2004 EVO 8 MR. I honestly felt sorry for the owners who were fooled in buying into this double clutch bandwagon. They came from manual cars and sort of regret buying their cars but they're stuck with it and just accepting it now.
So to answer your question, even if he does beat me on a track, even if he does beat me off the line, I really don't care because I know I had more fun in a manual. People are too focused on numbers. Even if my car was 2s slower from 0-100, I'd still take the manual. I was gutted when I heard audi stopped manual in their A3-A5's and VW Golf R and gti no longer manual from 2019 onwards. No AMG in manual and only a few BMW'S in manual. Oh well I guess I'll have limited to no choice in the future.
@gezza90: A manual will be more fun, yes. It will never, not even in your wildest dreams, "outperform" a double clutch.
@gezza90: "So to answer your question, even if he does beat me on a track, even if he does beat me off the line, I really don't care because I know I had more fun in a manual. People are too focused on numbers. Even if my car was 2s slower from 0-100, I'd still take the manual"
Are you used to being a loser(not winning/coming last)?!
As a few other have pointed out - Mitsubishi Outlander PHEV.
I own one and i must confess that seeing the fuel prices spike to $1.69 over the Christmas period made me happy.
We do get some "cheap" electricity (26c/kwh) - so a pretty accurate running cost for me so far has been about $2-4 per 100 km This is after about 18,000km and a few long distance trips.
If you do most of your driving within EV range you would probably go through about 60L of fuel per year.
From my own perspective the price premium vs the petrol (and diesel) models should pay for itself this year (or next).
Just the driving experience makes it worth it. I drove my old Outlander yesterday for the first time in a while. All the engine vibrations, gears changing that I had totally forgotten about.
The only issue I have is the power delivery driving through soft sand. Basically need to floor it to keep the elect motors spinning. They don't like a wheel getting bogged down/ stop spinning. It will just stop, and you cant do anything to get moving. So floor it to keep wheel spinning, but then sand goes everywhere and people give you that 'what an idiot' look, with his silent car throwing sand everywhere. This is a Mitsi software issue though and they say they are working on it.
In traffic, petrol cars are just about done IMHO. In 20yrs kids will be laughing at how stupid we were burning fuel while sitting at traffic lights / in congestion etc.
P.S. As for longevity, my Outlander PHEV has done 120 000Km now. Everyone thinks it's brand new when they see it, and drive in it.
I'm currently running a standard Prius as a work car. It's a fun car to drive. The pickup from stationary is pretty reasonable and the electric engine gives it a very refined feel. However the economy is nowhere near the 3.4L/100km that Toyota claims. I get about 5.2L/100km which is over 50% higher. These numbers really aren't much better than my manual Honda Jazz. YMMV.
Personally, I wouldn't buy a hybrid for fuel savings. I'd buy one for the refined driving experience. But I'd be careful about overpaying for the hybrid technology as the fuel savings just aren't there (in my experience, your mileage may vary).
"However the economy is nowhere near the 3.4L/100km that Toyota claims. I get about 5.2L/100km which is over 50% higher. These numbers really aren't much better"
Maybe you need to look at your driving style… I can get 3.4l/100(not Highway) quite easily in my Camry's.
Maybe you need to look at your driving style… I can get 3.4l/100(not Highway) quite easily in my Camry's.
I'm not going racing about in a work car, I need to keep my job lol. My driving is quite legal.
Our hybrid cars rotate through multiple people, hybrid fleet average is around 5-5.5L/100km based on the numbers I've seen in the cars so far.
Obviously it's possible to achieve lower figures. However for business use that's the consumption that we see. It uses less fuel than a petrol 4 cylinder buzz box, but not by much.
It uses less fuel than a petrol 4 cylinder buzz box, but not by much.
Depends on what you want out of it really. Just read a review on the new Camry hybrid, where they got it to 5.2L/100km over a couple of weeks of driving. Not the 4.2L as advertised, but still a hell of a decent figure for a family size sedan.
Same as you'd admit that there's a definite size difference between the Prius and your Jazz… so to get similar fuel consumption to a smaller size car is only a good thing
I wasn't suggesting you race about, far from it! I'd suggest the people that drive these cars you're referring to drive them the same as they do a conventional car which will result in higher consumption.
These cars respond best with a 'step & glide' type driving style, the earlier 40 series are very easy to 'hypermile' in resulting in fantastic economy(I had my Wife's Camry down to 5.2L/100 avg (including her driving) before she wrote it off which is outstanding. I have 2 50 Series hybrids & while they're easier to keep in electric mode(able to accelerate a bit harder/go faster) they drain the battery much quicker.
I'm seeing 4.4L / 100KM's on my Corolla 2018 ZR (current gen) after 7K+ of driving. They claimed 4.2L so no issues with seeing 4.4L (city driving) for me.
You got a corolla ZR! Wow, I would love to own that car!
I have a corolla hybrid accent sport. I have been getting 4.0-4.2l/100km average. Combined, mostly on suburb roads.
It’s pretty easy to get that once people start using eco guide. Not sure which other hybrid cars have it. I like to play the eco high scoring game. Try to get above 90/100. Lol
How much did you pay for it?
What do you think of the ZR model?
I couldn’t get to test it out at the Toyota dealers. No stock, not even demo.
Is it worth it?
I bought a 3 months old demo car (Metallic Black paint, Black & Red seats) which had done 1950KM's. Paid 30900 drive away, which I considered perfectly fine for an almost new car.
The car is so much better spec'd than any of the older Corolla models. The additions included made it well worth the asking price.
Ok I have had the Corolla hatchback hybrid accent sport for about 50 days now.
Here are some “rough” figures. Not exact. But by my calculations, should be close.
I use eco mode, and I love it more than normal or power mode. For smoothness, comfort, fuel effluent and quietness.
One tank 750km real world about used in 3 weeks
360km per 10 days or so
4.5L/100km running car fuel.
5L/100km total used fuel real world figure. Includes music, aircon and stuff
15km per $1
About $1.3X or so per L of fuel
Hopefully aiming for 15,000km a year or more.
Used mainly urban and a bit of freeway.
So far I like the car a lot.
5L/100km total used fuel real world figure. Includes music, aircon and stuff
The only real usable figure from all that.
km/$1, km/10days, weeks/tank are all useless to anyone else honestly.
Yeah, some people won’t care about detailed figures. But some would because those figures aren’t really stated on the web or manuals. Nobody told me you could get 750km from a tank of fuel. Or it’s about 15km/$1. Lol. It helps for some. :)
Something that people don’t tell you. When you have a corolla hybrid car…you are carrying $1400 in your pocket. Which is, if you lose your key, you lose $1400. Lol.
Sales person told me key is $1400 to replace.
Around $2,500-$3,000 for a new battery. I believe people have looked to just change cells or something for cheaper, so that's a worst case scenario price.