Benefits of Adding a Subwoofer for Classical/Acoustic/Instrumental Music (More than You Think) + Small Powered Subwoofer List

thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 17:51
Last edited 27/03/2019 - 21:00 by 1 other user

I came across a YouTube video
where they are talking about the effects of a adding subwoofer. And found the part from 7:00 - 9:40 quite interesting.
I have never owned a subwoofer, and particularly for listening to music I thought I didn’t really need one when you have speakers that extend low enough.

After recently listening to some recordings of Grand Piano, Violin/Orchestral, Acoustic Guitar.
I did think that there was some depth or definition missing from the instruments.

I am now considering a subwoofer to pair with my bookshelf speakers for a small room, particularly looking for a powered 8-inch subwoofer with tight accurate low-frequency reproduction, and low-frequency cross-over control. (I am looking at studio monitor subwoofers but they all seem quite expensive for what they are.)
I am going for an 8-inch being as I prefer the bass to be accurate rather than loud & the room size is on the smaller side (bedroom).

I read an article on the SVS website about the challenges of starting & stopping a woofer with a larger diameter (SVS have 18 inch woofer models which presented them with an engineering challenge. They say smaller 10, 12, 13 inch woofers these days have been considered as the standard for sound accuracy).

If you own any of these Powered subwoofer models- an honest opinion of your experience with it would be appreciated.

List in no particular order, with description of positive/negative attributes. All have advanced controls, ported, down-firing driver.
LIST UPDATED: Please ignore the list in the comments.

https://www.pioneeraudio.com.au/products/s-52w-subwoofer
Pioneer S-52W - 8-inch driver - Down ported
- an off branch of solid Onkyo company, can be bought at a discount. Frequency response (24-1000hz). Seems discontinued.

https://www.selby.com.au/electronics/speakers/subwoofer/sherwood-8-inch-active-subwoofer-gloss-black-sub8bk.html wrong link
Sherwood SW10 - 10-inch driver - Down ported
- Solid reviews, can be bought for cheap. Amp slightly down on power. Some reports of issues of auto-on/off detection at low volume from input. Cannot find detailed specs, seems discontinued.
Too large enclosure, too large a driver, too old. Considered an all round sub, not loud but not accurate.

https://www.selby.com.au/electronics/speakers/subwoofer/q-acoustics-3070s-home-theatre-subwoofer-american-walnut-140w-rms.html
https://www.rio.com.au/product/q-acoustics-3070s-subwoofer-dual-drivers/
Q Acoustics 3070S - two front firing 6.5-inch drivers - Rear ported
- Successful brand. Ported but reportedly tight/accurate bass, discounted price, smaller drivers but powerful amp (140w rms x 1). Interesting design but seems tuned for punch and I am interested in fidelity/accuracy. Although RIO says it can accurately reproduce the twang of a double-bass (I trust RIO’s description). same description on other sites, seems like company description.
No official frequency response specs (even on official website) only states crossover frequency 50-150hz (I’m sure it can reach lower than that in response).
Quality control issues -found a thread with many customers reporting crackling humming when on, unhealthy sounds when auto-on/off. People going through replacements/bad batches. (Also reports of people having to adjust the gain on the sub often depending on the genre of music they listen to, possible bumpy frequency response.)

https://www.lifestylestore.com.au/emotiva-basx-s8-8-active-s…
Emotiva Basx S8 - 8-inch driver - Rear ported
Great reviews, great professional brand, decent price, solid design^ and build. ^Issues of port noise at high volume (forums say can be solved with foam port plug), some having issues with auto-on/off detection at low volume from input.

https://www.focal.com/sites/www.focal.fr/files/shared/catalog/document/cub3-jb-specification-sheet2.pdf
Focal Cub3 - 8-inch driver - front ported
- Brand reputation for clean accurate sound (speakers), unique port design, solid build, soft texture finish (could be bad for dust IDK), does not reach as low as Pioneer. Premium cost. FIXED CROSSOVER @120hz (this is a deal breaker, just found this out the knob on the back is for volume). This seems to be built to be paired with their Focal series. No crossover control, price.

And the Klipsch R-8SW - 8-inch driver - Down ported - Out of stock everywhere (have to call up to find stock).
- Solid reference-grade subwoofer, part of the Klipsch group (Energy, Mirage, Klipsch and Jamo) which acquired Energy Speakers a solid speaker development company. Who ever got this on sale for $360 you got your weight in money’s worth IMO. Downsides? Outright volume/power, but then you would be going for an 12+ inch driver.

-

-

And here are a few options for those who are just reading & interested in more punch (most of you it seems) for listening to music.

https://www.deniswhitehomecinema.com.au/wharfedale-sw150-sub…
Wharfedale Diamond SW-150 10-inch - Down ported
Powerful 150w RMS. Well known Diamond series. Good price, Good value. Great performance according to ozbargain user. $499 Delivered.

https://www.kgelectronic.com.au/p/Electronics-and-Home-Enter…
Jamo J10 10-inch - Rear ported. Not worth the $1000 RRP IMO. But worth it at discount + code.
Same power of Wharfedale (150w RMS) Energy speaker’s solid design. User mentioned of issues with longevity.
Could be had here for $495.20 with PROGRAM20 code.

Electrical & Electronics Subwoofer

Comments

  • EightImmortals on 16/03/2019 - 18:41

    Subwoofer for where? Computer? Loungeroom? Car?

    I have one for each location and yes they do add another dimension to the experience. I'll leave it to others to recommend sizes for specific applications.

    • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 18:47

      Music listening in the bedroom. I’ll add it to the post now after room size.

      • EightImmortals on 16/03/2019 - 18:51

        I have a pair of Swan M50's in the bedroom. They come with a SW (I also have a pair on the computer). We only listen at low volume in the bedroom (large room) and they sound fine to me. :)

        • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 19:19

          Had a quick search for swan subwoofers, there is not much info on them. For example the H6 does not seem to have a cross-over control, on the official website there is no mention of it.
          The X6 has an odd frequency range of 31hz to 105hz @+/-3dB. I’m guessing their products are meant to be paired with other Swan speakers.
          I was considering the Klipsch R-8SW (seems to be discontinued) but missed out since I convinced myself it wasn’t needed (I do believe at that sale price you were truly getting your moneys worth with the Klipsch. At least for my needs).

  • HardlyCharly on 16/03/2019 - 18:53
    +1

    It absolutely does add depth, but I wouldn't consider it necessary, my two floorstanding speakers (through an amp) on their own can put vibrations in your bones at sufficient volume. The problem with dedicated subwoofers is that the majority of people who have them don't have them for quality, just for volume, turning them right up, making everything muddy and damaging their own hearing while annoying the neighbours. An 8 inch sub is more than enough, you'll likely never turn it past 1/3rd anyway if it's just for quality. Or 1/10th if you live with others who will be annoyed by it (by which I mean they have functional ears), bass travels much much further.

    • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 19:10

      Yes it seems you understand what I am referring to. I do not need ‘more’ bass, but rather feel there is depth lacking in the lower keys on the Grand piano for example. I just need those low frequencies filled in, preferably with the best resolution/accuracy. With a violin I think even the higher strings played together have some reverberating frequencies in the midrange the subwoofer can offer.

  • WreckTangle on 16/03/2019 - 19:22

    Lucky neighbours

    • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 19:24

      I do listen to music at moderate volume, but I do also carefully choose a appropriate time to do so. And I expect even at louder volumes it is nothing like the loudness of partying neighbours.

  • plmko on 16/03/2019 - 19:42
    -3

    Subwoofer is only needed if your speakers are not full range ~60-20,000hz or are simply crap. Since subwoofers do 1-50hz, as in what the name refers to, they add nothing to music, especially as music is only 2.0 stereo and not 2.1. Bumping down the cut-off frequency to add bass might sound better to you but then you are distorting the artists intention, and we are getting into the realms of subjectivity.

    • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 23:12

      I don’t seem to understand, i’m sure many instruments will play below 50hz.
      A grand piano can reach as low as low as 27 hertz. For music the CD/digital audio standard (44.1khz sample rate has the ability to reproduce frequencies between 0hz-22.05khz).
      When you say subwoofers add nothing to music, even 2.0 stereo music recordings can have frequencies below 50hz.
      I have never heard of recordings specific to 2.0 or 2.1 channels. As far as I know for music everything is recorded in a standardised format. (Other wise you would have a lot of unhappy customers saying it doesn’t sound right).
      I am not trying to distort the original recording, I am trying to have the subwoofer reproduce the lower frequencies below 50hz which are present in the recording.
      I actually thought a similar thing as you in the beginning, no need for a subwoofer for music.

  • alvian on 16/03/2019 - 20:12

    https://www.richter.com.au/shop/loudspeaker/subwoofers/thor-…

    Sound and Image 2019 best sub under $5000.

    The Thor series 6 uses a new digital signal processor (DSP) with 3 custom modes for, Music, Home Theatre and also Merlin mode.

    My sub: an experimental unit by Richter's designer Martin Gosnell called the Zeus using six 6.5" drivers to bring low frequency transients to life. It has the effective area of a 16" driver. It's the size of a bar fridge.

    • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 23:18

      Thanks for the link, but it’s way too large a driver and not quite what I am looking for.

  • KoNpHuSeD on 16/03/2019 - 21:18

    For orchestral music and some piano it would add an extra dimension and would be kinda akin to jumping up the series in a speaker line. As the drivers get bigger or you have multiple drivers solely focused to recreate deeper and louder bass.

    I have tower speakers with 2 x 6.5" bass drivers and I always listen to music with a sub. Although I usually listen to bassy music so it suits my needs.

    Just focus on the quality of the sub itself, not its driver size. Usually you go for bigger subs to get bigger volume.

    • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 23:13

      Yes I think 6.5 inch driver would be adequate for my needs in a subwoofer, but I am leaning towards 8 inch driver just to be safe. Also would prefer sealed rather than ported, but it seems quite uncommon these days.

      • Speckled Jim on 17/03/2019 - 09:42

        You can stuff the port with a sock, roll of polyester or whatever to dampen/eliminate port noise.

        • thebadmachine on 19/03/2019 - 12:49

          Hi yes this is a good tip, when researching the Emotiva Basx S8 (issues with port noise at high volume), came across people solving the issue by stuffing the port with cylindrica shape foam.

  • hangdog on 16/03/2019 - 22:32

    You might experience buyer's remorse after getting an 8" sub. I think a 10" is less of a compromise. I run a Hsu VTF-3 12" with the home theatre; and a not quite as good, fairly old but still adequately detailed and punchy 12" from theloudspeakerkit.com with my not-very-bassy planar speakers in the other room's music system.

    • thebadmachine on 19/03/2019 - 13:14

      As the subwoofer will be used in a small room (bedroom). I think I’ll have buyers remorse if I get the 10-inch. I’m considering a low-amplification 10-inch, but still my head says go with the quicker reacting (precise) cone of the 8-inch.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/03/2019 - 22:55

    If you live in high density you should not have a subwoofer. They really carry the sound

  • Zachary on 16/03/2019 - 22:59

    What you need is a good rotary one, maybe something like this: http://www.rotarywoofer.com/ This should hit all the right notes down to 0Hz, or 1Hz coz you won't be able to hear or feel 0Hz since that's effectively nothing…….

    This will wipe the floor with all traditional subs, even the 25 inch ones……also get like more than one if you want to make an earthquake.

    • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 23:35

      Your product is for subsonic frequencies (below 20hz). I am after bass-frequencies (around 20hz to 200hz).

      • Zachary on 19/03/2019 - 23:20

        …oh well you never specified that…..it can at least do the 20hz to 30hz section though……….but yes you're right, the rotary is no good for anything higher than 30Hz……

        ☺

        • thebadmachine on 20/03/2019 - 01:22

          All I can see is the Dog in your picture with its eyes closed in front of the fan you linked.

          • Zachary on 20/03/2019 - 12:47

            @thebadmachine: What about you - show me ur xy blue hair…?

            • thebadmachine on 20/03/2019 - 16:14

              @Zachary: Respectfully replying to your question, no I will not be changing my picture to a xy picture of a woman with yellow skin and blue hair.

              • Zachary on 20/03/2019 - 16:57

                @thebadmachine: [waves hand]

                "You will change your picture to a xy picture of a woman with yellow skin and blue hair, that is your name"

    • alvian on 17/03/2019 - 00:17

      It's a reversed exhaust fan modulated with audio signal :-)

  • thebadmachine on 16/03/2019 - 23:43

    Ok everyone looking at most of the comments I think I am posting on the wrong website. I thought there were more of you who are serious about audio.

    • alvian on 17/03/2019 - 00:15
      +1

      Serious (and esoteric) audio and bargain usually don't mix.

      • thebadmachine on 17/03/2019 - 01:39

        Yeah that’s what I needed to hear. Removing this post.

  • kiwijunglist on 17/03/2019 - 10:09

    Get a sealed 8"-10". Or even better would be to get better full size fronts that can get down to 35-40hz.

    I run these:
    http://www.soundlab.co.nz/wharfedale/740-wharfedale-jade-7-f…

    They have a tweeter, mid, 6.5" and dual 8" drivers that go down to 38hz at -3db (no EQ) which is enough bass for me. You can EQ / room correction and corner load them using a microphone and mcacc on my amp to get them to go a bit lower.

    • thebadmachine on 19/03/2019 - 12:57

      Thanks for your comment. I prefer sealed, but there are not many options available.
      38hz is pretty low, but I am interested in getting as low as possible with an 8-inch design, just to make sure I am not missing out on any information. The Pioneer in the updated post; extends to 24hz which is the lowest of all the options I think. (A pity I swear the price was below $399 on eBay when I lasted checked, now $499 as the discount code is now live) Of course the port helps.
      At moderate volume levels, as long as there is no port noise I think I won’t have to stuff the port.
      I am aware of DSP correction for lower frequencies, but does this work on standalone subwoofers also?
      (Truthfully I am not interested in putting a mini-dsp in between the other components)

      • thebadmachine on 26/03/2019 - 20:18

        Hi to correct my ignorance and answer my own question, it seems DSP correction is most affective at lower frequencies (below ~100hz).

    • thebadmachine on 19/03/2019 - 13:00

      Thanks. Your links got me up and researching again.
      Not sure about the Audioengine, specs are good, but found a forum post about a burnt out capacitor -that had to be DIY replaced. (Although this could be due to the owner running the subwoofer at maximum volume all the time).
      I haven’t heard much about Polk, the 8-inch Pro model is a bit pricey, the cheapest 10 seems ok, good low end extension, 3 year warranty (5 year warranty on driver), but have to do some research on it.

      • the Unforgiven on 19/03/2019 - 22:44

        trust Polk, I do, I bought S60 tower speakers last month :)

  • Speckled Jim on 19/03/2019 - 18:09

    For a first-time, toe-dipping purchase for an 8" bedroom sub, here's a suggestion:

    M-S 308 @ $162 delivered

    Reviews:
    https://www.reevoo.com/p/mordaunt-short-premier-ms308w-subwo…

    6-8" is generally best for music. Larger stuff is better for movies (LFE) IMO.

    • thebadmachine on 19/03/2019 - 18:19

      Hi thanks for the link. I actually came across this exact subwoofer months ago. Only complaint seems to be port noise as is the case with the Emotiva Basx S8. A foam port plug seems to be the fix.
      Slightly weary about greys though.
      Edit: greys have the frequency response wrong, it’s 35-150hz +/-3dB. Low-end extension could still be better..
      I’m looking for it to faithfully reproduce a Grand Piano, Double bass, Classical/acoustic guitar.
      Wanna make sure I’m getting as much information as possible with lowest possible extension from 8-inch driver.

      6-8" is generally best for music. Larger stuff is better for movies (LFE) IMO.

      Yes these are my expectations also.

      • Speckled Jim on 19/03/2019 - 18:39

        I'd look to mitigate port noise by positioning it for corner-loading. Doing that with an Earthquake 8" myself.

        • thebadmachine on 19/03/2019 - 19:05

          I know Mordaunt is big in the UK. Not big on the long throw driver though. Would rather the Klipsch R-8SW.
          Currently scratching my head reading through this.
          Making me look at the Q Acoustics 3070S again.

        • thebadmachine on 19/03/2019 - 19:08

          “The low-pass filter needed for a sub-woofer always implies substantial delay, and unless you also delay the audio to the main loudspeakers” this bothers me. Maybe I should just stick to no sub. Only on some tracks do I notice the lack of low end.

          • Speckled Jim on 19/03/2019 - 21:06

            @thebadmachine: Calibrators like Pioneer MCACC take that into account. Plus you can mess with all manner of things after the automated sequence.

            But then, bedroom…my older Kenwood AVR with 8" and Genexxa satellites was too much for our 3.5 x 3m room. I reverted to my DSE 6" sub. 8 and 10" now both in lounge fed from the Pioneer 7.2.

            In fact, my three cheapies cost less combined than that rather nice 3070S.

            • thebadmachine on 19/03/2019 - 22:07

              @Speckled Jim: Q Acoustics has been scrapped.
              Narrowed it down to 3.
              Best choice is the Klipsch (quality, out of stock everywhere), then the Pioneer (best specs, low stock only 1 or 2 places), then the Emotiva (slightly imperfect).
              Might wait for new discounts or new models to come out. Sometimes there is a great new release at just the right price. We’ll see.

              • Stevesie76 on 21/03/2019 - 08:29

                @thebadmachine: The generalisation that smaller subwoofers are "faster" or more accurate because of the smaller cone is a myth. All things being equal, if you can afford and accommodate a larger sub you will be better off. Smaller drivers have to work so much harder to produce the same SPL as a larger cone, so you run into the limits of the driver much earlier. The distortion produced by a small sub going into its non linear region is really audible.

                Do some research on group delay and damping to find out a bit more on where the terms around the "speed" of a sub might actually apply. Also, your biggest gains in sound quality will come from careful placement in the room, addressing the room acoustics and low end resonances and applying some DSP EQ if possible to smooth the response.

                • Zachary on 21/03/2019 - 11:18

                  @Stevesie76:

                  The generalisation that smaller subwoofers are "faster" or more accurate because of the smaller cone is a myth.

                  Soo all those audio specialist actually have no idea what they're talking about?

                  It should kinda make sense since smaller drivers equal less power required to drive it which means their responsive feedback should be more instant than say a 30" driver which will take longer to respond to the same frequency…….

                  • thebadmachine on 21/03/2019 - 13:28

                    @Zachary: I think it’s important that; smaller woofers require less power from having less surface area to work against the air. And larger woofers encounter more resistance from their surface area, but also hold their structure better (linearity) as they are being worked less than a smaller woofer pushing equal SPL.

                • thebadmachine on 21/03/2019 - 13:22

                  @Stevesie76: Ending your statement with ‘is a myth’ is a bit vague (lack of data to back it up or one person at sometime said so).
                  From what I understand both small and large woofers have physical limitations, it is not as simple as saying one is better than the other.
                  I agree with small woofers having to work harder to produce same SPL as large woofers, but this (SPL) again depends on the space you will be using it in (small room for me).
                  Yes and I am aware that the linearity of certain frequency is lost with large excursions (trying to avoid high-excursion woofers) & certain frequencies become out-of-sync. So in this case (accuracy at big SPL/outright volume) you will want a larger woofer.
                  Also high-excursion woofers I assume sacrifice responsiveness and efficiency due to their design.

                  Edit: your group delay damping read up is a bit too advanced for me to read.

                  • Stevesie76 on 21/03/2019 - 14:10

                    @thebadmachine: Agreed - the term 'myth' is vague and I wish I had the time and skill to clearly explain the engineering and math behind it, but I don't, and I understand that's a bit of a cop out.

                    In a small room where you want to get down into the 20hz range, even small subwoofer will have to work hard at any more than low levels. With what I've learned in my time in pro and home audio, I personally wouldn't use an 8 inch woofer for the true sub-bass region. If you are staying in the >35Hz and up region to just support some small woofer main speakers then it's not so bad. I'm saying this because you seem to be wanting very low distortion at a low cost, and I'm not sure you'll find that a cheap 8in sub (unless you went for a large DIY horn loaded enclosure perhaps). But you shouldn't just listen to me - do some research that stays away from the usual Hifi myths and buy what you are comfortable with.

                    I can't stress how much difference good EQ, room treatment and positioning will make though.

                    • thebadmachine on 21/03/2019 - 15:06

                      @Stevesie76:

                      I'm saying this because you seem to be wanting very low distortion at a low cost, and I'm not sure you'll find that a cheap 8in sub (unless you went for a large DIY horn loaded enclosure perhaps).

                      You are more than right here. I understand what I am looking for is quite particular and in a different lane to the mainstream line of common products.
                      I’m sure it exists, but your right maybe not for cheap and easy to find.

                      I intitially was looking at powered subwoofers for studio monitoring. As I expect they are built to a high Pro-grade standard in-terms of sound.
                      But the ones that fit my preference are in the $600-800 range.
                      I hoped my post would find someone that would have a similar preference to me and had discovered a cheap subwoofer which did the job well.
                      Seems it is harder than I expected to find the right one.

  • Zachary on 21/03/2019 - 18:19

    ….so I thought you didn't want our help or opinions in your matter, what happened to that? Change of heart or nowhere else to turn to?

    • thebadmachine on 22/03/2019 - 15:46

      And also it’s worth mentioning I am not an expert in audio. So I thought ozbargain would be more understanding of my lack-of knowledge and inconsistencies.
      Edit: it seems you are the second person who was disappointed in my closing the post.
      I’ll do my best to write up the post better in the future.
      I will admit this comment was pre-mature and it was not directed at you specifically.

      • Zachary on 23/03/2019 - 13:18

        ….hhhhhhhhhhhhhhmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm……………………………………………..

        Edit: it seems you are the second person who was disappointed in my closing the post.

        Who was the first? :P

  • thebadmachine on 21/03/2019 - 18:25
    -1

    I think i was just too impatient, for some reason expected more comments in a briefer time period.
    I’ve learned if I keep the post open for long enough there will be some useful comments.
    (This post was re-opened when the mods merged my other post into this one, and that’s when I saw the last minute [before closing post] comments which were of value).

  • thebadmachine on 26/03/2019 - 21:17

    After doing some more research I was able to discover that although a Grand Piano can produce a frequency of 27hz. This is referred to as the lowest possible frequency, and it only partially/briefly present.
    Apparently what you will hear more of is the 2nd and 3rd harmonics of 27hz (being 54hz and 81hz respectively).
    I still believe in the depth and realism provided by a subwoofer reaching as low as 27hz, but maybe I can compromise a bit by going for this measurement at -6dB.

    Also it has been confusing going through different types and grades of subwoofers (home theatre, reference grade, studio monitor).
    Most common of subwoofers are ‘home theatre’, which are tuned for both abilities of movies and music.
    ‘Reference grade’ seems to be similar, while meeting the stricter specifications (maybe more towards HiFi with flatter/broader frequency response, precision).
    And finally studio monitor subwoofers, which are specifically designed to be accurate and flat response.
    I have read a lot of disappointed reactions from buyers who expected ‘home theatre’ levels of punch and power from studio monitor subwoofers, and made the decision specifically for movie use (worth noting they were perfectly happy with how it performed with music).

    It seems Studio monitor subwoofers are the correct grade of subwoofer I am looking for, as it will be placed in a small room and want minimal overwhelming/boomy bass (just looking to fill in the low-end missing from bookshelf’s).
    Also it’s worth mentioning that due to modern engineering & technology, in certain makes and models: larger drivers (10-12-13 inch) are capable of being as accurate and responsive as smaller drivers (8 inch). Also ported designs have caught up and are capable of keeping up with the accuracy of a sealed design. (worth noting ported greatly increases bottom-end response, which can get overwhelming in a small room).

    Personally I would still prefer going sealed. And a small driver to fit the room size. That’s just personal preference.

    • thebadmachine on 01/04/2019 - 14:57

      Edit: 2nd / 3rd order harmonics

  • g1 on 01/04/2019 - 12:03

    SVS SB-1000 or PB-1000?

    • thebadmachine on 01/04/2019 - 14:46

      Please be provide a bit more context in your comment. I am wondering if your comment is a suggestion, or if you are asking for advice.

      If it is a suggestion, both are a bit out of my budget and probably overkill for a small room.

      • g1 on 01/04/2019 - 22:23

        They were a suggestion. I use a PB-1000 in a fairly small room. The volume on it is pretty low. I find it's response fast enough. The real advantage of it is that it goes really low, 19dB. It covers human hearing range and puts out a good amount of 'feeling'.

        If it is out of your price range then fair enough. None the less going down to 19dB is a great way to cover music and movie effects. I did get it on a small discount so it really does depend how far your budget stretches. I also know some people recommend other subs over SVS at the same price range but it is really hard to beat the SVS freq performance.

        • thebadmachine on 02/04/2019 - 14:17

          Yes thanks for your reply, I assume you mean 19hz and yes that is impressive (matches my suggested requirements) and just below human hearing range as you stated.
          I am aware of SVS being a very reputable subwoofer brand, but again it is more than how much I am willing to spend, as I know I will be using about 10% of its overall capability.
          It seems my needs are quite a particular case, and even with a low power 8-inch/10-inch powered subwoofer, I would probably end up using it at very low gain (volume) levels (probably 20-30%).
          Thanks for your suggestion though.

  • thebadmachine on 14/04/2019 - 21:43

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/131881

    This was a real score. They still have this model for sale on their website & eBay store. I hope they bring this deal back.

    • the Unforgiven on 15/04/2019 - 14:32

      The above link is over 5 years old

      • thebadmachine on 15/04/2019 - 14:39

        I am surprised at the deal back then (maybe somekind of dealer - manufacturer promotion).
        Given time has passed for the model to age / competitors to release new models etc I thought the price would have been reduced by now.

  • thebadmachine on 27/04/2019 - 00:40

    Ok everyone, after the months of research (accidental & intentional) on subwoofers.
    I have discovered the one-stop subwoofer for the use case I am after (strictly for accuracy with music).

    REL subwoofers (kind of like the SVS for musical subwoofers).

    Do it right the first time and never think about it again.
    I will just have to save up and do without a subwoofer until I can afford a REL.
    I am looking at the T5i for small room.

  • thebadmachine on 11/05/2019 - 22:50

    Just thought i should keep this post up-to-date.

    The newest models of certain subwoofer ranges have built-in DSP to optimise sound with your room / placement.
    The first I came across is the Martin Logan 600X which has DSP and together with a auto-room-correct function which uses your smart phone to record a frequency response measurement, and automatically applies the corresponding DSP EQ to achieve optimal sound.
    Some Elac subwoofers also have this feature, while the KEF Kube series (8b / 10b / 12b) also have DSP, but use a preset switch system (free-standing / wall / corner options) which optimise the DSP for its placement.
    Now I am leaning towards saving up and getting one of these products (KEF 8b / 10b), although maybe at the low volume levels I will be using the subwoofer, the subwoofer sound may require very little correction.

  • Rauland on 27/05/2019 - 19:26

    I was looking at the Klipsch R-8SW as well. Have you found anything else suitable? Shame about the Q3700S, Shelby is selling a walnut one for $400 currently.

    • thebadmachine on 28/05/2019 - 17:52

      Looking at 8-10 inch sealed musical options currently REL T-Zero & T5/i or a more modern unit with DSP presets such as the KEF Kube8b / Kube10b which is also sealed & musical (These went for half price a year or two ago to people who already own KEF speakers)(was hoping to find one for cheap practically new on stereo.net.au). If you can stretch it to the Martin Logan Dynamo 600X, it has automatic room-correction DSP EQ tuning via smart-device.

      The Emotiva Basx s8 is a ported budget option, reportedly musical & accurate in its ability as long as you use it at reasonable levels (may require port plugging to quell port noise at higher levels).
      Basx s8 was also $399 up until recently, but can still be had for that price on ‘KlappAV.com.au’ if you use current 20% off code KLAPP20. (Or ask a local shop to price-match / price-beat).

  • Rauland on 27/05/2019 - 20:25

    I was contemplating making my own subwoofer with Dayton parts. For example.

    Amplfier plate: http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/dayton-audio-spa250-250-wat…

    Subwoofer 8": http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/dayton-audio-dcs205-4-8-cla…

    or

    Subwoofer 12": http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/dcs305-4-12-classic-subwoof…

    Here's a list including reference subs: http://www.theloudspeakerkit.com/loudspeaker-components/loud…

    You'd still need to get the box materials, measure it all up etc. Would be interesting.

    • thebadmachine on 28/05/2019 - 17:56

      I also considered such DIY options, being less confident though I looked at the complete kit options.
      Such as this LSK S8, which has a nice frequency response. The price was too high though for a DIY. I would spend the extra $150 and get the KEF Kube8b with DSP presets if I had the money.

      • Rauland on 28/05/2019 - 23:06

        I found a subwoofer amplifier plate for $160 on eBay called the 'Opus One 180W Active Subwoofer Amplifier' has 120rms. No idea who makes it, I found even cheaper plates on aliexpress but don't want to gamble on that.

        If you throw in that 8" dayton sub you're looking at around $280 excluding box materials.

        I tried calculating a box but failed spectacularly. Designed a slotted box tuned at 35hz and a sealed box which was quite compact. But alas no idea what I'm doing so those designs might dumb/inaccurate.

        Slot: https://subbox.pro/en/b/ZlWNSGzFG

        Sealed: https://subbox.pro/en/b/pemy6cOEP

        • thebadmachine on 29/05/2019 - 00:01

          I have similar levels of confidence with DIY, so the pre-selected kit I linked is the only option which is too close in price to a sub designed & made by a proper brand.

  • Rauland on 02/06/2019 - 09:56

    do you know anything about the AVE FUSION10S?

    https://djcity.com.au/product/ave-fusion10s-10-inch-studio-m…

    • thebadmachine on 02/06/2019 - 13:27

      I came across it when researching options months ago.
      From my perspective the cabinet is too large, but the slotted port will minimise port-noise.
      It’s a gamble being so cheap, usually the lowest priced subs reflect the electronics they use inside (bottom of the pile so they give out very quickly).
      If I was after something solid that would last 5-10 years I would go with Adam Audio or Eve Audio studio monitor subwoofers.

      • Rauland on 02/06/2019 - 20:21

        Glad I can leech off your research! What do you think about a Cerwin Vega XD8S? They do come cheap, so maybe that's a point against its quality? I am looking at it but I am weighing up waiting for a good condition Wharfedale sw150 to come up on gumtree/facebook marketplace.

        • thebadmachine on 02/06/2019 - 21:20

          Yeah I posted a few deals on the XD8s, it is very similar in design to the subwoofer that comes with most sound-bars. (So I thought it would be just right for those wanting to add a sub to their soundbar at a cheap price).

          It is compact (easy to place) in design but comes with advanced controls (pass through & phase / freq cross-over control).
          Issues I came across when reading about it is the bass is slightly directional (where the woofer is pointing has an effect on the sound).
          My advice I gave in a comment was to place against a wall with woofer facing you (forwards) or have it lay flat on the ground with the woofer facing upwards (may need isolation lying flat).

          Some say Cerwin Vega is a reputable company, but then again some say the company has changed over the years and only their professional gear is good.
          In general though, it seems price (to an extent: see law of diminishing returns) plays a role in the quality of components. Put simply, some companies have a reputation to uphold (as well as 5-10 year warranty) and therefore the price clearly reflects in their quality. Additionally it helps to research product user experience to further confirm quality.

          As you mentioned ‘suitable’ in your first comment, I assumed originally you were looking for a ‘musical’ sub, in that case the specifics / options become even more narrow & like me you will only be looking at a few options. (Worth mentioning I am on the more obsessive side when it comes to requirements)

          You mentioned the Wharfedale SW150 which another user on here praised with home-cinema use. If you are looking for that low-end punch & power (with movies) the SW150 seems a good choice for the price even brand new (was available for $499 Delivered at Deniswhitehomecinema).
          I personally am after something small & sealed as the room I listen in is on the small side. (And currently I am saving up towards one of a few pricey options)

  • Rauland on 14/06/2019 - 10:36

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/463513

    Volls are doing an intro sale on their New Voll S8 Subwoofer. Reaches quite low - 23hz.

    I ended up ordering one, will report back.

    • thebadmachine on 14/06/2019 - 12:28

      Looks like the same enclosure and driver as the Basx s8, differences seem to be a larger port and different plate amp on the Voll S8 (bigger port allows Voll to extend slightly lower, and may help reduce port noise issues of the Emotiva).
      Being half the price, if that plate amp lasts long enough you may have found a real gem here.

      • Rauland on 22/06/2019 - 15:06

        I got them last night. I'll try really hard to give some honest first impressions for people looking at this subwoofer. This isn't scientific at all and I'm not an expert so I'm keen to hear other opinions, such as from ozbargainer arsey. Maybe we can get a better consensus that way.

        My Desktop step up: Q3010, SMSL AD18 and now this Voll S8. I'm using them for PC use without the port plug, they really thump, shaking my feet, desk and it even rattles the rails in the wardrobes door three metres away and I haven't pushed them that hard so they're powerful enough in my testing (a small room). I have the subwoofer set on half volume and haven't changed it the entire time. It performed really well on a movie I watched and as well on a few games I tested them on.

        I'm sure there are better (more expensive) sounding subwoofers but at this price range, I'm exceedingly happy. It's pretty much going to be my default recommended budget subwoofer. They sound smooth and have really added to the experience of the bookshelf speakers. I was trying to find something to compare them to so I took out my old Logitech z623's and tested them side by side, there's no comparison. While the z623s get just as loud the bass of the z623s sounds like it lacks definition, there's also a weird cabinet noise coming from the z623s subwoofer which ruins it.

        Port noise is still an issue when you give it a really low-frequency test tone and push it hard, I guess I put the port too close to the wall but realistically for desktop use I'll never have them that loud or pass my time listening to test tones for it to be an issue but you can always plug the port with the included foam plug.

        I'm not sure of the claimed frequency response as it seems to drop off well before 22hz, I'm interested to see some frequency measurements done or others people's opinions of this but it still plays really low for my liking. The excursion on the driver is crazy, fun to watch!

        I like the design of the box, plain but not overly stylised. No issues with the build quality. For my use, it works really well. Now I hope it lasts for a while.

        • thebadmachine on 22/06/2019 - 17:33

          Thanks for sharing. I think your write up is concise and straight to the point.
          Regarding the frequency response, ported design tends to be able to reach low, but the response rolls off more quickly then with a sealed design.
          Yes I am a fan of the cabinet design as well (same as Basx s8) it is compact and simple.
          I think it’s really good they include a port-plug (listed in its description), as sourcing one which fits properly can be a nuisance.

        • the Unforgiven on 23/06/2019 - 21:20

          I had the Z623 for years, I kept blowing them up, as I always wanted it louder

          I waited for a sale & bought a pair of Audioengine 5+ with an S8 sub + a D1 24-bit DAC

          I could not be happier, until I bought a 2nd hand pair of Definitive Technology BP-2006's, they were fantastic until I turned them up too loud & fried a cross-over & blew 2 drivers (I have fixed them now & they take back stage to my Polk S60's); the sound of the S60's going through the D1 is enough to make me grin everytime :) I don't need a sub with the S60's as they go down to 26Hz, before I crank it up too much, I get the bass from the BP-2006 as they have a 250W sub in the bottom of those speakers. The house is a shakin', with the sound of music :)

          • thebadmachine on 25/06/2019 - 20:20

            @the Unforgiven: I know of the Def-tech BP-Series, BP standing for bi-polar speakers (drivers on the front & rear).
            They are well loved by those who understand them, the entire design is also very interesting (built-in side firing subwoofer’s).
            26hz bottom-end of the Polk S60’s is quite low for 6.5-inch drivers. I wonder if that rating is at -6dB / -10dB.

            • the Unforgiven on 26/06/2019 - 17:54

              @thebadmachine: here are the speakers I have (the BP-2006 & Polk S60)
              https://www.manualslib.com/manual/227115/Definitive-Technolo…
              http://www.audioreview.com/product/speakers/floorstanding-sp…

              https://www.selby.com.au/polk-s60-hifi-home-theatre-tower-sp…
              https://www.digitalcinema.com.au/polk-signature-s60-hifi-tow…
              https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/176622/review-of-polk…

              Did you know that Sandy Goss founded Polk in 1972?
              In 1990 he founded Definitive Technology
              and in 2010 he founded Goldenear

              If you want the ultimate, you have to check out the Triton One from Goldenear, it has won ALL awards, not some, ALL of them; I just drool & dream about 'em

              I am still very happy with my S60's as my main & the BP-2006 as the "B" speakers. The 2006 was my main & in most systems it is the main, I am just that rapped in the S60; I wrote a review of them for Selby

              • thebadmachine on 26/06/2019 - 19:27

                @the Unforgiven: Interesting. Have you noticed an advantage of the bi-polar design of the Def-Tech’s over the Polk’s sound?
                In theory it should produce a more ‘realistic / live’ sound as instruments etc produce sound in all directions compared to conventional speakers which only have sound coming from forward facing drivers.
                I guess the BP-2006’s are a bit dated compared to the S60’s, maybe a better comparison would be the latest BP-9000 Series.

                As for the Goldenear Triton one: ribbon tweeters = yes once you have heard them they are a must, 3 x 5 x 9” bass drivers & active design = interesting + also active makes them better value & confident sound signature.

                • the Unforgiven on 26/06/2019 - 19:46

                  @thebadmachine: The BP-2006 have a 250W sub in the base & the Polk S60 have a tuned port. I find I use the BP-2006 more as I listen to the TV either watching it or playing music through foxTel's music channel. It is like the olden day when you listen to something not loud, you put the loudness button on the amp; I always have my Yamaha AX-592 amp set to flat. But when I want to go a bit deaf by cranking it up, I turn off the BP-2006 & just use the S60, that is when they really shine & the smile on my dial cannot be wiped off.

                  The BP-2006 has the subs adjustable, so I can have more or less bass; I prefer to have my music flat, just the way the musicians recorded it, and I just turn the volume knob to suit my level of enjoyment

                  I have not played with the bass control of the amp to see (hear) if the bass would be better at lower levels. I have my BP-2006 for the lower levels. To go even lower, I use my Audioengine 5+ & S8 sub through a D1 DAC; my computer set-up. The loud music I play goes from my comp through the D1 (that little thing makes a world of difference & I blame it for blowing up my BP-2006 last Christmas). I am glad I did, as I got my S60's as I could not find the parts for the BP-2006 as they were out of stock, but they came in stock recent so I bought 50 metres of 12AWG speaker cable

                  This is the little D1, my other parts also came from PCCG; they were on special last year. I wanted something better than my old trusty Z623
                  https://www.pccasegear.com/products/19169

                  • thebadmachine on 26/06/2019 - 20:35

                    @the Unforgiven: I was referring specifically to the ‘bi-polar’ design of the BP-2006’s, as in the forward & rearward firing drivers. Maybe you are un-aware but the BP-2000 Series (all BP-Series = BP meaning Bi-Polar) has drivers on the back like this.
                    Quite different to Polk S60’s normal design.

                    It is a unusual design, but they are wired in phase so the sound arrives at your ears at the same time. You may have to bring them out away from the wall to achieve the full effect, but they have a different unique approach to how they sound.

                    • the Unforgiven on 27/06/2019 - 20:43

                      @thebadmachine: When I blew the BP-2006 up last Christmas, I took both speakers apart & made one good one so I could use as centre speaker (actually the only speaker I had then); I had the bass driver pointing upwards as I had the speaker on its side

                      The other speaker I had to wait for parts as I blew 2 bass (mid range drivers) & the crossover (pictures below)

                      https://i.imgur.com/PfoL3yf.jpg
                      https://i.imgur.com/nYMo2kD.jpg
                      https://i.imgur.com/YIx5cM5.jpg

                      I had Masters Apprentices playing earlier, then some Daddy Cool, now Thorpie :)
                      Aussie rock rules, play it loud

                    • the Unforgiven on 09/08/2019 - 14:37

                      @thebadmachine: Cooee
                      I tried to find out how to do a PM for you, but I couldn't

                      I thought you might be interested in a pair of BP-2006 that are up for sale on eBay

                      https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Definitive-Techlology-BP-2006-fl…

                      The first pair I have seen for sale on Oz eBay for a year, and they look in top notch condition.

                      I have my S60's, so I don't need them. I am also very broke, but if I had the money.
                      I just thought I would give you a heads up

                      • thebadmachine on 09/08/2019 - 15:47

                        @the Unforgiven: Yeah thanks for the link. I am fine with my current setup thanks.
                        I also prefer paying extra for brand-new with warranty over 2nd hand, interesting speakers though (with bi-polar design).
                        Another option for anyone interested would be a brand-new pair of Pioneer SP-FS52’s for $397 Delivered on eBay with current 20% off code.

                        • the Unforgiven on 09/08/2019 - 22:00

                          @thebadmachine: Cooee
                          Those Pioneers are discontinued
                          here is a review:-
                          https://www.toptenreviews.com/floor-standing-speakers-pionee…
                          in it, it cites a lack of bass, which the BP-2006's do not
                          Those Pioneers are only one way facing
                          They are cheap as shit

                          • thebadmachine on 09/08/2019 - 22:04

                            @the Unforgiven: Yeah never really heard them, just know they are popular among consumers.

                            • the Unforgiven on 09/08/2019 - 23:08

                              @thebadmachine: They are popular as they are cheap
                              They make sound, but the BP-2006 make music :)

                              My sons mum had better Pioneer speakers in the early 80's
                              They were were nice to listen to, and all I listened to then were The Beatles

                              Nothing wrong with Pioneer
                              My mates misses worked for them in the 80's (or was it the 90's?) and when Christmas came around they can get anything they like cheap, she didn't want anything; I got myself a PL-707 turntable, I left it in my house which I sold last year

    • thebadmachine on 14/06/2019 - 19:17

      Thought I should add: the Voll S8 has the best specs in the price-range. Only thing lacking is probably outright power at 100wrms (compared to the $399 Basx s8 @ 150wrms), but for the introduction price of $180 the Voll really does stand-out.
      General conclusion on the Basx s8 is tight / controlled musical bass for a ported design, extends low like nothing else with a ported 8-inch and in its price-range.
      Look forward to hearing your thoughts on the Voll S8.

      • arsey on 16/06/2019 - 19:39

        Been following your posts and jumped on this Voll deal too! Thanks for the subwoofer posts and dedication.

        • thebadmachine on 17/06/2019 - 16:17

          Thank rauland for finding it. I actually checked the Voll website in the past, but they only had the bookshelf speakers then.

    • thebadmachine on 16/06/2019 - 18:31

      Price is $200 now.

    • thebadmachine on 15/06/2019 - 14:26

      Thanks I clicked straight away. Unfortunately barely any discount on the REL’s. Now to surf and keep an eye on other websites for EOFY.

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