So basically I called Subaru asking how much they charge for the expensive spark plugs and service which will set you back roughly $1800 at Toyota and they do it for $900 because they have specialist tools and don't need to raise the engine, but they won't do it to an 86 cos it's not a "Subaru" even though it's the same as the BRZ. Anyone know if I can dispute this and if not, if there's a good Subaru independent that won't charge as much as toyota?
Cheers
True. Blowing off some steam.
Apologies mate - all the best with finding a good deal.
All good man, happens to everyone, sorry my original post was a bit vague
Geez I don't understand why everyone is so negative towards me about this.
Some people have offered you very good advice. Have you looked for a car forum that talk about your specific car and asked for a mechanic recommendation? This is your best bet. Or call a couple of mechanics and find out where to go. You can literally solve your problem in 30 minutes.
Something to realise is the level that service costs are priced at is a factor car manufacturers consider when pricing the retail value of their vehicles.
A manufacturer may decide to price their service plans & services near, at, or below cost to attract buyers or maintain a higher vehicle retail price.
E.g. If a buyer is considering an 86 and a BRZ the 86 may be more expensive to service but carry a lower retail price while the BRZ is the opposite.
Each manufacturer knows or estimates what the total value they can expect from a purchaser over the average ownership period of the vehicle. Which is a factor of purchase price + accessories + service costs - costs of providing the service costs, accessories & vehicle.
By differentiating their pricing strategies despite similar vehicles they are able to attract buyers with slightly different motivations and so each have a slice of the market without directly competing with each other to the erosion of the profitability of both. Bear in mind while it may or may not be illegal for them as separate businesses to directly collude to fix pricing (anti-competitive / anti-trust laws) it certainly would defeat the point of the joint venture if one party made the purchase price and servicing cheaper than the other so that one party ended up selling very few vehicles.
IMO Subaru is likely making very little at that price from the service offered.. certainly less than they would make from using their finite time to service other vehicles in their range. The reason the price may be low is to soften the impact of their (usually) higher pricing on the vehicle than Toyota. E.g. to encourage purchases of their vehicles and increase the likelihood their new vehicle customers become repeat new vehicle customers.
You, having chosen a Toyota may be perceived as less likely to make your next purchase from Subaru's range (talk is the 86/BRZ will be discontinued), and you are not a new car purchaser from them so they have less chance to build loyalty from you than their other customers for which the low service pricing is intended.
Final potential reason: while the vehicles are near identical is it possible they run different software versions? It could be at the dealer level they are not equipped to talk to the Toyota version of the software involved (not saying this is the case but potentially it could be).
There could definitely be truth to this for other cars, but doesn't really apply here in this case. Subaru don't charge as much here because the way they change the spark plugs requires less effort/labor than Toyota. + They said that if I had bought the 86 off them they would do it, so it's definitely not that. Appreciate your insight though
@cille745: Just because it takes them less time and my response doesn't capture what they told you does not mean that it does not apply.
In short you wouldn't be able to know without being privy to discussions at a higher up level than some guy on the phone at a dealer.
love it how the mods removed named calling by merely editing his post. but when i do it i get fcken banned for months.
Seriously move on mate. People these days think that everyone owes them. As a person who works in retail I see people like you everyday. You're just laughing material to us as soon as you leave. Just have some dignity and don't make a fool out of yourself.
As a fellow retail worker as well, I really don't know what you're on about. Maybe if you treat customers with the amount of respect you're treating me it'd explain why you see them everyday. I literally don't understand how I'm losing my dignity by not taking a Subaru Service receptionist at first answer
You work in retail. We all know who the laughing stock is.
I don't use the word "hero" very often, but you are the greatest hero in American history.
You've just earned yourself a red blazer.
Believe it or not?
Is this an Ozbargain meme I'm not clued up on?
OP how many Subaru dealership have you called? Try calling maybe a few of them and let us know if all will reject you. Not all dealership have the same workload so probably the ones you called can't fit you in or more probably, they don't want to be answerable for warranty issues that may arise servicing your car from a different manufacturer.
Thank you very much!
Turn on Private Messaging if you can Killer, i might be able to help you out.
turned on, appreciate it
What do you mean if you can dispute this or not. It is a different company and brand, they are not obligated to service your toyota.
lol
Why would you go to a dealer anyway? They are called stealerships for a reason. Go to an independent expert. If it's for the warranty books it's still ok.
Next episode on OzB: Why won't Woollies take my 20c NZ coin, it's the same size and metal cost.
Just put them in the vending machines and then eject once you get to $1 to get a shiny Australian dollar :D
Also the 20c coin hasn't been the same size since 2006…
Next post:
The crowd on Ozbargain does not agree with me, how can I dispute this and force them to?
Ms paint diagram.
And perhaps a link into a website which then shows a hypnotic type video. Mark the link a 50% off enelopes, so everyone is sure to click
You could try talking to the service manager or dealer principal. Most dealerships are happy to take your money and a dealer principal will generally not care if it might cause an inconvenience to the service department, as long as they believe there is money to be made.
I worked at a Holden dealership for 8 years and it wasn't that uncommon for a Isuzu Ute to turn up for service as they are very similar to the Colorado. As far as i know, no one was ever turned away.
This. Stealerships will do anything for your money. Sounds like you spoke to a real arrogant tool.
Personally, I'd hit Subaru up on social media (Twitter and FB work well), speak to the dealer principal and/or push to Subaru head office.
A reputable independent mechanic might also be the go. It certainly is for me!
At what km do Toyota recommend changing plugs? Modern iridium plugs can last a lot longer than the recommended distance. Some will go for 200k or longer according to Scott Killmer, though he recommends changes at 160000km.
This is where I'm sort of stuck with a do it or not do it. I'll probably end up selling the car so I want that good service history, but the cars a 2014 and its only done 23,000km
23k km and the manufacturer demands you change the spark plugs? That's crazy. $5 spark plugs easily last 60k km.
Time interval based as well
@cille745: Certain items like oil, brake fluid, belts, etc degrade with age by simply sitting around. I challenge Toyota to show platinum electrodes degrade in the same fashion.
copper plugs can last 60k ?
You're worried about logbook servicing and getting that all-important dealership stamp but you want Subaru to do it instead and give you a logbook stamp? If that's the case, you're dreaming.
From Googling I understand that this is the 56 month (4.5 year) service requirement for the car. Honestly, if that's the case and the car's only done 23,000km it probably doesn't need it, but you seem to be at the crossroads of whether you want to continue caring about stealership logbook servicing or not. If the OE spark plugs are iridium you could probably tack another zero on the end of the kilometres your car's been driven before having to worry about them.
Modern cars, eh? I thought that my 2001 car with a Duratec V6 was dumb enough in that you have to remove the intake manifold to get to the rear three spark plugs / coils, but this 86/BRZ engine looks like another level of idiocy design-wise.
proly a genius design which forces u to go to a dealer to replace a 5 dollar item
Doesn't need a plug change at all. I have a 2004 Toyota MR2 that's done 55,000km and is still running the original iridium plugs and runs great. They are supposed to last 150,000km. Also any smart person looking to buy the car won't mind gaps in the log book when your car has only done 23,000km, as long as you get the oil changes done and logged.
I replaced the plugs in one of my cars with iridium plugs a year or two back as I wasn't sure when they were last replaced (no service record).
The plugs I bought from RockAuto had a lifetime warranty (obviously with some exclusions), but still, they last a heck of a long time under normal running conditions. They cost me about USD$27 for 6.
The whole qualified mechanics logging oil changes thing is BS. I keep good records so that I can remember what I've done to my own cars and am happy to present those to prospective buyers. If anyone questions the validity of my DIY records, I offer to pop off a valve cover so that the buyer can personally inspect for sludge, varnish and pitting on the cam lobes as evidence that the vehicle has been neglected. That offer is generally followed by a "no, it's fine" response (a.k.a. "I wouldn't know what to look for").
@Pantagonist: Yeah I do my own oil changes and plugs as well. I don't care about logbooks if there is evidence of another sort that services have been done regularly, usually can simply tell from how the car runs. But not everyone has a finely tuned ear for that sort of thing.
@TRANCE: Honestly, if you've still got the factory logbook you're better off getting your own "DIY mechanic" stamp made up and putting the details of what you've done in there. Most buyers wouldn't even notice.
Maybe less of an issue for me as I rarely buy cars that have done under 150,000km.
how's the gearbox/TCU holding up ?
@dcep: The MR2? It's a pain as the GSA is leaking, but runs fine, actually shifts faster than stock after bolt ons, but have to frequently top up the HPU fluid (which is luckily just Dot3 brake fluid). The engine is running great.
@TRANCE: reliability & maintenance wise , will you recommend ppl to get the zzw30 mr2 ?
there isn't much choice as the next up is lotus elise which has its own issues
@dcep: Are you able to do your own maintenance? If yes then sure get the MR2, but you absolutely have to get the 2003+ models as the pre 03 have issues where the pre-cats break up and get sucked into the engine causing engine failure, and most all pre 03 have very bad oil burning issues. The only other thing to be aware of is GSA leaks like mine has, so just check under the car after the car has fully warmed up, and on a surface like concrete where you will be able to see any leaks on, then take it for a spin and bring it back to the same spot and check for leaks again. If it checks out then it's golden, maintenance is easy on these cars. But if you have a problem car like mine, be prepared to spend some money, cost's around 1.5k to get the GSA leak fixed for example.
You don't need to change spark plugs at 23000 kms.
It all depends. My honda civic uses iridium plugs and Honda recommends changing spark plugs at 100,000km. My car started to have rough idling at round 96,000km and the symptom was gone right after I replaced the spark plugs.
I'd totally adhere to manufacturer's recommendation than some random Youtuber's general recommendation. Religious car maintenance will save you money in the long run than trying to save a few bucks here and there.
Swap the badges over and take it back. Simple.
Just had a quick look online and looks like it's a boxer engine. They are not easy to work with because of their design. There is a lot of labour involved to get those plugs changed. $1800 still sounds like a lot of money. You can get to the plugs without lifting or dropping the engine (expensive part) but there is not a lot of room to move around.
My recommendation would be to go to a Subaru specialist. There are a few in Melbourne. Don't go to a Toyota specialist as they won't have much experience with boxer engine.
Just had a look at my suppliers for the plugs but looks like it's OE only. No listing from NGK or Bosch etc. Might be Denso only.
As far as your first question goes. You can't make Subaru service the car if they don't want to. It's stupid of them to not do it, they are saying no to a customer and money. But I am sure they have their reasons.
When purchasing new cars I always look at the service costs, including any belt changes. That makes a major impact on my purchasing decisions. $1800 for a spark plug change and service on what is a relatively cheap car is incredibly high. That's 5% of the new purchase price. No thanks.
Definitely agree with this, but got the car very cheap used, so it was somewhat offset. This service is only every 90k kms
A few points.
Subaru is under no obligation to service your Toyota but having said that ring around local dealer servicing and aks (anyway $900 is still too much)
That pricing also works in reverse, a full engine gasket kit from Subaru was $700 (retail) and $550 (retail) from Toyota. In the end, I got it from Toyota Japan for $350, but they supplied from FHI.
The engine doesn't need to lifted to change plugs and can be done in about 2 hours by a competent workshop, ring around the Subaru specialists.
The plugs themselves are a little expensive but not much more than any iridium plugs out there. Plus you only need four, so hey not like you have to buy 8.
Thanks, will have to ring around and get a better price.
3. Agreed, unfortunately that ain't Toyota lol
This engineering pains me! Why design cars that are not serivable, try changing the temp sensor in a VE Commodore, idiots..
The cynic in me says that in encourages people to upgrade to the next model and spend more money.
The realist in me says that these compromises on serviceability are a by-product of the power, compression and fuel economy that these engines produce in a similar amount of engine bay space to older cars that perform far worse on all of those measures.
Fortunately I'm happy to compromise so my ute with a KA24E engine is actually relatively straightforward and enjoyable to work on. Look at those spark plugs in full view!
Do you mean the thermostat?
"Anyone know if I can dispute this"
Management reserves the right to refuse service to ANYONE.
cross out "toyota" and write "subaru" on your car and then they will definitely take it
You got a sharpie?
lol 86, take the car to the wreckers.
you could buy a better used car than the cost of the repairs
The early GT ones go really cheap now, I'll bite
Find me a car that's 2012 or newer with sub 100k kms for 15k that is more fun to drive and I'll put a sock in my mouth 😂
2012 BMW 120i manual. About as close as I could get (rear wheel drive, naturally aspirated, 2 door hard top), and being a BMW, you don't have to eat that sock, but maybe sniff it a little. If you could forgive it being front wheel drive and French, the Renault Megane RS is right around that price and would be a nice, fun car to drive.
And I put your requirements into carsales, and there was literally no Toyota 86 GT models in this search criteria either. 2012 or newer, sub 100k km and under $15k
Find a specialist they do better work and are normally cheaper i know 2 in Perth if needed
Hey can you pm me please?
Can PM me as well?
Just reaching the mark and 2k+ quoted from toyota…..
Possibly the only serious answer here (fellow 86 owner)
I get my servicing done at import monster. I haven't yet reached the spark plug service but I'm close. They can do the spark plug one though, I haven enquired in the past.
Haha lol, I know import monster, as I enquired how much to fit my exhaust last week. Quoted me just under $300 + new gaskets + bolts so I did it myself
Appreciate the reply
That's enough internet for the day.
First the way the OP wrote the statement was confusing. So many things have already been said to shoot this down so I won't add any more fuel to the fire.
In another somewhat similar scenario I know a Japanese OEM that always refuses to service a rebranded piece of equipment made by them.
Here are 2 speculative reasons.
1 contractual agreement
2 Japanese pride in not servicing another brand
2 Japanese pride in not servicing another brand
Didn't realize he had to drive to Tokyo for a service, what is the car ferry rates on that?
I completely agree,I apologize for making that statement somewhat vague. Could be contractual but they agreed to service it if I had bought it from them so at this point it's a mystery to me 😂
Do you mean if you bought the Toyota from Subaru?
Disabled user incoming
So you want to dispute a garage saying they don't want to service your vehicle? Jeez, how self-entitled can you get?
Dispute wasn't the right word, I agree, but not self entitled enough to insult people when I haven't read the whole thread 😂
One person I spoke to doesnt represent all of Subaru, just was curious if anyone had experienced something similar
Please please take it to an independent 86 or subaru specialist.
For us in brisbane are very lucky to have a few such as the86shop. Tops blokes, honest and that major service incl spark plugs change costs way less than Toyota.
Also remember, 90000km service is not just spark plugs change, there are other replacements too apart from oil and filter.
Regardless of what people think, the 86 brz is a drivers car that requires more than heavy right foot expertise to go fast on the corners and twisties ;-)
Wow a specialist shop just for the 86, wish I lived near there.
Yeah I know that, the spark plug labour just makes up the majority of the cost that's all
Agreed, a real treat for manual drivers
Regardless of what people think, the 86 brz is a drivers car that requires more than heavy right foot expertise to go fast on the corners and twisties ;-)
No its slow. And needs upgrades to even be that good in the corners. Stock tyres are Prius tyres 😂
Agreed, I'd call it peppy at best, but don't think theres any other car for the same price/kms/age that would be a more fun package
Long shot, but it may be that the Subaru dealership is being subsidised by Subaru Australia for the service. Maybe Subaru have decided to subsidise the price to act as an incentive to purchase the BRZ over the 86. If that were the case, then the dealer wouldn't get the rebate from Subaru Oz for servicing an 86, and the dealership may then lose money by only charging $900.
The real question, is why can't Toyota do the same if Subaru could do it. Its not like Toyota not the top 5 largest car manufacturers in the world.
Even $900 is an absolute joke.
I need to go into the business of doing spark plugs on this car.
It was sold to you by Toyota, so go to them.
When something gets rebadged, the one who put the badge on is responsible for your issues.
It's the same with electronics. Kogan pays OEMs to put their name on a lot of things but no one who originally made it will honor the warranty if it has Kogan's name on it.
Just put Subaru badges on your car
Independant and only person that touches my old WRX and new STI. Worth the trip if in NSW
Is Nissan obligated to service a Mercedes X Class?? They come out of the same factory in Spain.
Buy Subaru badges off Ebay, stick on the 86, problem solved.
Geeesh
It's weird that this has become such a long and complex question. Here's the simple answer.
The Subaru dealer won't service your car because they want to put their own customers first. They want to build up that relationship because it makes good business sense. They only have so many mechanics, so if they allowed anyone to book their car in for work with them, they wouldn't be able to give their own customers the attention they expect.
So it's absolutely nothing personal and there's no conspiracy etc. They just care more about their own regular customers and want to encourage them to come back. That way, they can provide a high-quality, consistent service while also encouraging people to buy a car from them.
Funny thing is I am (now was) one of their customers as we have 2 other subarus in the household. I reckon there could be some truth to that, but never heard of mechanics turning down a paid job or being too busy to fit a car in. Cheers
I don't agree with this.
Not implying any response to OP's initial query, but if your reasoning was correct - Subaru would have said "sorry, we are at capacity" as opposed to "No-we won't service your Toyota"
Every service is a potential customer in the future - so no I don't think they said No to focus on their OWN customers.
They have to draw the line somewhere. If it's their policy not to service non-Subaru cars because of the reasons I posted above, it makes sense for them to stick to it. The more compromises they make, they more potential they have to not be able to look after their own customers.
If they'd said "sorry, we're at capacity", the immediate follow-up question would be "oh, ok then, can I get the service done in a few weeks when you're not so busy?".
It's easier for them to just give a flat no. They're clearly getting enough business as it is.
Which subaru dealer was it?
From previous posts i assume you are in melbourne. All the BRZ's generally get serviced at STI docklands.
For independents, you could try the following subaru specialist in melbourne.
Gotitrex <— they service my 86
Cromwood
URD
look through the wrx forums for other subaru specialists
It was Subaru Doncaster
Do you recommend Gotitrex, good pricing, servicing etc?
Awesome, Cheers
Yeah, they are good, would recommend.
They are a fair bit cheaper than the toyota dealers for standard log book servicing.
Plus have more confidence in there work after talking to them and seeing all the other wrx/sti's & 86/BRZ's they work on in the shop.
Much cheaper to buy/manufacture a 'dealer stamp' if this is merely to have a 'good' logbook history lol. Geez all this for a car that's done 23k???
@cille745: Because it's not a Subaru. They most likely have contractual agreements not to cut each other's lawn with the 86/brz.