Fee for Conveyancing Home Purchase - Almost Vomited

Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 13:54

Seeking advice, as I feel I've been swindled because I didn't ask for a detailed quote beforehand. I am really upset with myself and outraged at the nerve of the conveyancer.

We enlisted a conveyancer to draw up the contract of sale for our home - the service was priced competitively at $695 and we paid. No issues.

Subsequently we looked at a place to purchase. The engagement with the conveyancer with regard to the purchase was:
1. Please review the contract - we paid $395 up front for this

Then we signed the contract, with the agent as witness, they took it to their solicitor. Our conveyancer only
2. signed a 66W

They then
3. emailed the agent requesting a full copy of the signed contract

So those 3 things were all the conveyancer did for the purchase of the property.

We then 2 days ago received a
"congratulations on your purchase, to now allow me to complete additional adjustment searches, and something about title insurance, please transfer $2290"
I questioned this in detail and in essence we are postponing the payment until closer to settlement.

Then today we receive a fee agreement for $3965 for instructing them to act on the purchase for us!

Conveyancing fees of $2990
Acting on the mortgage and liaising for closure $585
sundries - faxes, stationary photocopying (seriously what year is this) $390

They then state

"If our Conveyancing Services are terminated prior to Settlement but after exchange of Contracts– the amount required to pay our work undertaken on the file and to release to another Firm will be $2,690. This figure is calculated a percentage of the Value of the transaction to the Client and Stamp Duty to be paid. Assessed by an internal firm Formula."

This seems like robbery, and I have emailed politely addressing my concerns, given the lack of work they have done on our file, and fact that we have already paid $395 for review of the contract.
We never signed this agreement, are we held to it?

Does anyone know if we have any grounds to argue - from what I've read, industry standard conveyancing costs for purchase are circa $1000, and our last purchase we used a solicitor that was $1300 so I certainly didn't expect more than that.

please help :(

Financial

Comments

      • MikeHunt on 14/02/2019 - 11:13

        Sydney (Eastern Suburbs office but we met in the CBD) NSW

  • imurgod on 25/01/2019 - 09:06

    If it makes you feel any better, I used a family member (by marriage) who has their own firm and not only did they charge me $3.5K, but I also picked errors and made them address them.

    Lesson learned.

    • JimB on 25/01/2019 - 11:34

      Lawyer or conveyancer?

      • imurgod on 25/01/2019 - 18:39

        It was a lawyer

    • ihbh on 30/01/2019 - 10:22

      Did you ask for the cost in advance? Or just assumed that they'll give you a "good" price?

      • imurgod on 30/01/2019 - 11:08

        In my culture, it's rude to ask family.
        Silly, I know.
        Lesson learned.

  • t_c on 25/01/2019 - 09:37

    I srsly want to be a conveyancer, happy to be that cheap guy out the back of brisbane.

    • aussieolfaction on 25/01/2019 - 10:50

      I srsly want to be a conveyancer, happy to be that cheap guy out the back of brisbane.

      Don't forget to use a random race/nationality. May be I'd get to be be the Nigerian prince solicitor out of Liverpool.

      • frewer on 25/01/2019 - 21:43

        Liver-pool … I just noticed that too

  • FareEvader on 25/01/2019 - 09:47
    +1

    That's disgusting, name and shame! I used to be a paralegal at a law firm in Melbourne, conveyancing fees ranged $800-$1500.

  • snajper on 25/01/2019 - 09:47

    in 2017 we sold our place and bought a new one… From memory our solicitor has charged us $2500 all up for both.

  • gimme on 25/01/2019 - 09:53

    Many schools of thought on this but from my experience a run of the mill conveyancer (which cost me $900) has been better than a 'solicitor'. Solicitors will typically palm this stuff off to their paralegals anyway so the service you get is hit and miss at best. Solicitors come in handy if you have a non-standard contract and need them to cast their eyes over it but that's something you can pay for separately as you have and take your 'conveyancing' business elsewhere.
    Anyway that's my experience - I've used some online settlement agent called Vikki Philippof and they were good (it's not that hard anyway), whereas once I decided to with a solicitor (probably double the price) and they were garbage. YMMV.

  • Zonty on 25/01/2019 - 10:01

    Recently I sold and bought property, cost me between $1100 to $1300 each job and job was excellent.This price was compared with others. If you will pay less then $900 probably because of small firm. Sometime cheap could be cheap service to, and that give extra headache when they not ready on time.

  • PAOK11 on 25/01/2019 - 10:16

    Take them to the board. You have to be crazy to pay that. They have yo send you a rough estimate prior to commencing the work

    • josho9 on 26/01/2019 - 17:41
      +1

      Doesn't sound like they are lawyers, complaint options may be limited.

      • PAOK11 on 26/01/2019 - 17:59
        -1

        My advice would be to look at the conveyancers act. Im sure they are in breach

        • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 15:37

          Im sure they are in breach

          They probably area.. So what…. Who can you complain too? NSW Fair trading gets how many ,000's of complaints per week?/Month?

          • PAOK11 on 27/01/2019 - 19:41
            -2

            @Ti-au: In all seriousness this post is another waste of time. If you haven't signed anything you ring them and say I wont be going ahead with your services. The end. If they chase you for work they already have completed thats when you go to Consumer affairs vic

  • aussieolfaction on 25/01/2019 - 10:49
    +3

    sundries - faxes, stationary photocopying (seriously what year is this) $390

    May be the photocopies were made in 24 carat goldfoil papers?

    • Antikythera on 27/01/2019 - 13:33
      +1

      they had to buy a new fax machine and they are getting harder to find.

  • Powershopz on 25/01/2019 - 11:08
    +1

    I would be investigating the appropriate regulation bodies and reporting them for such shady practices. Conveyancers fees should only be around $1000-$1500. If it's exorbitantly higher they trying to charge you "solicitor" rates for their unqualified services.

  • cashews on 25/01/2019 - 11:26
    +16

    Just sharing my story. We used a conveyancer that was recommended to us by our real estate agent. She spelt our names wrong, got our address wrong, left placeholders in the documents, and was 45 minutes late to our appointment.

    I was wondering why the agent recommended her until I saw her, 10/10 would conveyance again.

    • WhyAmICommenting on 25/01/2019 - 19:28
      +2

      Haha, that’s gold!

    • burningrage on 26/01/2019 - 12:20
      +1

      Photo or it didnt happen

    • ihbh on 26/01/2019 - 15:48

      She spelt our names wrong, got our address wrong

      That's because the real estate agent wanted her to come to him to get the right info!

  • kvwidjaja on 25/01/2019 - 11:31
    +1

    "We enlisted a conveyancer to draw up the contract of sale for our home - the service was priced competitively at $695 and we paid. No issues."

    Just wondering whether this was the quote for the completing your sale transaction fully (from preparing contract until the settlement)? If so, this is quite a bargain that you pay. But if this is only partial fee that they gave you, then I'd have to say it is quite pricey. Normally a conveyancer would charge around 1000-1500 for a complete sale transaction as others have been saying, with $300 of that fee to be paid once Contract is done, and the rest to be paid once you have sold your house. To say further, every licensed conveyancer must disclose their fee for completing the WHOLE transaction before commencing the work - it is part of their licensing regulation to do so - hence the need to give you the full fee before preparing your contract.

    But if you have decided to look for another conveyancer/solicitor, please make sure that you obtain a copy of that contract, since your new conveyancer/solicitor can re-use the certificates & searches that you have paid for to update the contract with their details - this is to avoid paying double disbursements.

    • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 15:40

      Just wondering whether this was the quote for the completing your sale transaction fully

      Possibly (I would say yes), then bait and switch perhaps?

      The main issue is who do you complain to - NSW Fair Trading? It will take months…\

      But you get what you pay for. $695 is cheap, cheap, cheap!

  • yjun355 on 25/01/2019 - 11:43
    +1

    There is some great information in this thread and also referrals. WOuld be awesome to have a space like Find Me Bargain for things like this where people can recommend services.
    Local tradie recommendation like this would be amazing as well.

  • Hoju on 25/01/2019 - 13:55
    +18

    Well, unfortunately we have not heard a peep from our conveyancer for the last 48 hours, including no reply to my email request for any items from the file be forwarded to our new representative.

    Perhaps this is a good sign that they have just decided to move on and not pursue us for $390 of photocopying and stationary fees.

    I contacted the vendors conveyancer today, and they said they haven’t heard a word from him since exchange. Not just that, but on the day of exchange which was a very stressful time, he was not available and did not return any of the vendors conveyancers calls, I just found out.

    The fees we paid for our contract of sale were $695 including all searches. I’m told this Wasn’t too bad. However it now seems to me that if we were to continue with his services for the duration of our sale and to exchange of our property, we would have faced a likely hefty bill on the other end. I now wonder if the circa $1000 preparation of sale contract fees I was getting previously during my research actually also included the entire sale process not just the contract prep.

    So to top it off, the place to avoid is brown and brown conveyancers. I am not naming them because it’s personal, as I give them some credit for just letting us go without further harassment for fees, but at the same time I would hate for this to happen to someone else.

    When I mentioned the fees he outlined to other conveyancers, 2 of them literally swore in astonishment.

  • King Taddy on 25/01/2019 - 15:23
    +2

    Hi OP

    I work in a law firm that does a lot of residential conveyancing.

    The $695 sale conveyance is very reasonably priced. The $395 pre-contract review is also ok.

    That makes me think that there must be something quite significant, other than fees, that has blown the purchase conveyance out of the water.

    If the $2990 is purely "conveyance fees" then that is daylight robbery, especially given they are charging an additional amount to deal with your bank.

    Are you sure there isn't something else in that number?

    At my firm, our fees work on a sliding scale, but the property would have to be worth $10m+ to attract a fee of $3k…

    • Hoju on 25/01/2019 - 17:25

      Thanks for the input.
      $695 was purely for producing the contract of sale so we could put it to market. Nothing further. But apparently that is still not a bad price, however has we continued the exchange there would have been further charges I am sure.

      The purchase process was exactly as shown and fees as shown as well. $2990 was the conveyance fees - and if there was additional work then it was all speculative - we literally only engaged with them for the purchase to review the contract and sign the 66w. The contract review had no amendments or follow up so I have no idea where this sum came from.

      The sliding scale fee refers to an “internal office formula”

      • josho9 on 26/01/2019 - 17:51

        Just because they have an internal office formula doesn't mean you have to agree to it or that others won't be cheaper. If you haven't agreed for them to do further work and they haven't done it yet you don't have to pay them anything more, but tell them not to do further work as soon as possible.

    • ihbh on 28/01/2019 - 07:18

      property would have to be worth $10m+ to attract a fee of $3k

      Does a $10m+ property attract more work?

  • iand on 25/01/2019 - 15:38

    ask for a copy of the signed contract

  • Hoju on 25/01/2019 - 18:03
    +1

    Incidentally we were also provided with an initial charge before this agreement, which included title insurance. I hadn't heard of this and we didn't purchase on our current strata apartment, but it seems to be regarded as junk insurance in some circles.

    Email was as follows the day following settlement.

    "Congratulations on the Purchase at _____!

    I now need to conduct pre settlement investigations and post Closure protections for the Asset and cover for unknown risks that could arise and devalue the property!

    I will conduct a Strata Report, Title insurances Statutory Search and additional searches for the Purchase plus Stamp Duty plus adjustments for Council, Water & Strata

    Could you please transfer $2,290? via (Paypal link) by 11am this morning to cover for my extensive Contract investigations!"

    Note this was in addition to the $4000 invoice.

    With the benefit of hindsight and what I've learned from this thread, the above seems super dodgy?

    • SomeRandom on 25/01/2019 - 19:29

      Next Level Dodgy!
      "Extensive Contract Investigations" they are not…
      .
      I have a great Conveyancer (in WA) that has helped me with a purchase and a sale (including all that "extensive" work)
      $895 each time.

    • josho9 on 26/01/2019 - 17:46

      Strata report is a separate matter which you can probably get more cheaply direct from the person doing the report. Otherwise those searches should not cost anywhere near that and should be included in a fixed quote for conveyancing. You should consider walking away completely if you can find someone else to do the conveyancing at a reasonable fixed cost (sounds like others in this thread know people they can recommend in your area).

    • Marty131 on 26/01/2019 - 23:42
      +2

      Asking for a significant payment amount by 11am on the same day, via PayPal no less…. doesn’t it all sound fishy, beyond a rip off?

      • Hoju on 27/01/2019 - 07:56

        Sure does. Struck me as very odd

  • DiscoJango on 25/01/2019 - 19:29
    +1

    op: if you did vomit, would it be a small heave, a medium chuck or a full high preassure hose down.

    • WhyAmICommenting on 25/01/2019 - 19:30

      Essential info right here. Unfortunately, it was “almost”

      • aussieolfaction on 25/01/2019 - 23:18

        Username checks out. :-)

      • DiscoJango on 26/01/2019 - 08:46
        +1

        yup. im kinda dissapointed op didnt chuck

        maybe if/when they confront the conveyancer next, they should 100% throw up on them. and then post here about it.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 25/01/2019 - 23:22

    unless the property was over 5 million dollars i dont see how 3k for conveyancing is reasonable…. either you didnt ask how much the fees where and these crooks decided f*** it lets charge what we want or they thought they could pull a fast one on you

    either way it shouldnt cost more then around 1k maybe 1500 MAX

  • RefusdClassification on 26/01/2019 - 04:11
    +3

    A $3000 fee for paperwork is a terrible shock. These people are parasites.

    Another reason why the free market is bad for ordinary folk. Prices for services should be regulated; conveyancing, law, trades work, repair work, landscaping and so on.

    • ihbh on 26/01/2019 - 15:53

      Another reason why the free market is bad for ordinary folk

      Wrong. It's bad for silly people who don't do basic things such as asking for the total price upfront.

      If services were regulated, you'd end up with dodgy operators earning the same fee as better quality operators.

    • sd4f on 27/01/2019 - 11:03
      +1

      You used to be able to do conveyancing yourself, not that long ago, but ever since the Land Titles Registry got privatised, (Thanks Baird/Berejiklian…) you now have to go through brokers or something (I believe it's someone with an account there, priced to keep one-offs out or not permitted for mere mortals) and the regulation just forces you to go through middle-men, adding to cost. And because it's privatised, there have been attempts at gouging the fees at the registry wherever they could.

      This is an example where there is regulation and it's detrimental, I guess over-regulation you could say, but ultimately designed to guarantee the profits of the new owners, and keep the bread and butter funnelled into the legal industry.

      • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 17:44

        You are assuming that people doing their own conveyancing had a good grasp of what was required. The thing that concerns me is that you have people who basically can't speak english trying to do the conveyance to save $1k on a $2M purchase.

        Both layers and conveyancers can do conveyancing (so competition) and the price of conveyancing is now pretty low (especially when you take into account inflation). In fact unless the firm does it in volume a lot of lawyers won't do it (so you see specialisation of a few firms doing most of the conveyancing).

  • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2019 - 11:45
    +1

    Find this person on gumtree?

  • AMLagonda on 26/01/2019 - 13:24

    this is the highest fee I have ever seen….

  • myusername on 26/01/2019 - 15:53
    -1

    wow your fess are cheap

  • josho9 on 26/01/2019 - 17:52

    Also, if you are selling then fewer searches should be required.

  • jsheroes on 26/01/2019 - 19:22

    Provey did my conveyancing for 750. Did a reasonable job.

  • Levathian on 26/01/2019 - 23:24

    Rip it up total ripoff

  • Tasmaniac on 27/01/2019 - 02:13
    +1

    Poor old Garths going down, down to China Town.

  • cupcake on 28/01/2019 - 11:12

    That is bloody outrageous!

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