Fee for Conveyancing Home Purchase - Almost Vomited

Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 13:54

Seeking advice, as I feel I've been swindled because I didn't ask for a detailed quote beforehand. I am really upset with myself and outraged at the nerve of the conveyancer.

We enlisted a conveyancer to draw up the contract of sale for our home - the service was priced competitively at $695 and we paid. No issues.

Subsequently we looked at a place to purchase. The engagement with the conveyancer with regard to the purchase was:
1. Please review the contract - we paid $395 up front for this

Then we signed the contract, with the agent as witness, they took it to their solicitor. Our conveyancer only
2. signed a 66W

They then
3. emailed the agent requesting a full copy of the signed contract

So those 3 things were all the conveyancer did for the purchase of the property.

We then 2 days ago received a
"congratulations on your purchase, to now allow me to complete additional adjustment searches, and something about title insurance, please transfer $2290"
I questioned this in detail and in essence we are postponing the payment until closer to settlement.

Then today we receive a fee agreement for $3965 for instructing them to act on the purchase for us!

Conveyancing fees of $2990
Acting on the mortgage and liaising for closure $585
sundries - faxes, stationary photocopying (seriously what year is this) $390

They then state

"If our Conveyancing Services are terminated prior to Settlement but after exchange of Contracts– the amount required to pay our work undertaken on the file and to release to another Firm will be $2,690. This figure is calculated a percentage of the Value of the transaction to the Client and Stamp Duty to be paid. Assessed by an internal firm Formula."

This seems like robbery, and I have emailed politely addressing my concerns, given the lack of work they have done on our file, and fact that we have already paid $395 for review of the contract.
We never signed this agreement, are we held to it?

Does anyone know if we have any grounds to argue - from what I've read, industry standard conveyancing costs for purchase are circa $1000, and our last purchase we used a solicitor that was $1300 so I certainly didn't expect more than that.

please help :(

Financial

Comments

  • HighAndDry on 23/01/2019 - 13:58
    +15

    We never signed this agreement, are we held to it?

    Arguably no. But:

    "If our Conveyancing Services are terminated prior to Settlement but after exchange of Contracts– the amount required to pay our work undertaken on the file and to release to another Firm will be $2,690. This figure is calculated a percentage of the Value of the transaction to the Client and Stamp Duty to be paid. Assessed by an internal firm Formula."

    This is laughable. If I were you I'd report them for even daring to include this in writing anywhere.

    • [Deactivated] on 23/01/2019 - 14:15
      +2

      Who would you report them to?

      (serious question)

      • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 14:21

        Possibly the Australian institute of conveyances? Not sure it would get you very far

        • HighAndDry on 23/01/2019 - 14:24
          +13

          That, Fair Trading, and ACCC. I also wouldn't expect much results, but it's just so damned egregious.

          • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 15:24

            @HighAndDry: If it was a lawyer he could of complained to the Law Soc or LSC (obviously it depends on state), but you didn't use, so….

            ACCC but expect 0 (as per High and Dry post, upvoted).

    • vid_ghost on 25/01/2019 - 10:23
      +5

      My lawyer who can do WAY more then just settlement work..who i use for Conveyancing charges me $1400

      My friend got his place sorted for $890

      Ive seen Conveyancing for around $700 but you get what you pay for at that price.. and its very meh service.

      you sir got scammed and always ask for FULL total price beforehand or walk away.

  • QW3RTY on 23/01/2019 - 14:01
    +3

    the service was priced competitively at $695 and we paid.

    we receive a fee agreement for $3965 for instructing them to act on the purchase for us

    I'm a bit confused. What document priced their services at $695, and where is it?

    We never signed this agreement, are we held to it?

    You can't be held to an agreement that you didn't agree to.
    Which raises the key question: What did you sign or agree to prior to engaging them, based off this lower fee of $695?

    • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 14:04

      No nothing was signed.

      That’s what really threw us - Previously when we had requested a contract of sale be drawn up, or updated, or a review of the contract for purchase, there was an immediate reply with the request for fee payment which was paid online and then the service was administered.
      So we had expected that with any further action we would be advised of any fees rather than to suddenly be slugged with this kind of invoice

      • QW3RTY on 23/01/2019 - 14:09
        +14

        I would advise them in writing that you have reviewed the fee agreement that they have sent and you are not satisfied with the terms.
        Advise them that you thank them for the work they've completed on your behalf which has already been completed and advise you are going elsewhere.
        If you haven't agreed to anything — they've got nothing to hold you to.

        • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 14:16

          Thanks for that. I find it quite extraordinary their ‘exit fee’. Happy to pay for the 66w and email- probably half an hour of work max

          I’m happy to pay for the minimal work completed to date.
          What does concern me of course is what they’ll then throw up regarding mystery fees on the sale of our place! Of course I’ve now requested this information

        • StickMan on 24/01/2019 - 18:12
          +1

          If you haven't agreed to anything — they've got nothing to hold you to.

          Don't mean to jump in here, but I have a question directly related to this. tl;dr I asked for something that was free, business sent me invoice for something else - I didn't agree to it or any charges, so I'm in the clear … but how do you think I should proceed? I have contacted th business and explained everything, but I keep getting automated invoice reminders etc. What do I do to prepare myself if they decide to push to debt collector or something?

          • No ONE on 25/01/2019 - 11:13

            @StickMan: I am happy to read these sorts of things on ozbargain. These issues make us more aware should you come across one in your life.

    • smartazz104 on 25/01/2019 - 09:43
      +8

      Over 3K is cheap? The heat must be getting to you.

  • stirlo on 23/01/2019 - 14:26
    +15

    You haven't signed a contract for any extra services so just say "Thank you for reviewing the contract for $395 as per our agreement. Unfortunately we will not be requiring your services for the purchase as we will be engaging an alternative conveyancer"

    Then find a new reasonable quote and ask the agent to send the paperwork to your new conveyancer. If you haven't engaged the current conveyancer you are under no obligation to pay for the "work' they've performed without your permission/authorisation/request.

    • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 14:28
      +14

      Thank you that wording sounds appropriate.
      I feel like doing this! Just to relieve the stress

      • MrBear on 24/01/2019 - 10:07
        +46

        And make sure in your letter you include "My fee for reviewing your fee and having to contact OzBargain is $4532. I accept cash only."

  • ihbh on 23/01/2019 - 14:28

    What was your total cost for selling your property? Was it just $695 for drawing up the contract? What about settlement and so on?

    • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 14:29
      +2

      We haven’t sold yet but are negotiating.
      Just $695 for the contract plus $295 for updated searches

      So obviously I’ve freaked out a little wondering what they’ll slap us with on sale conveyancing costs, hence the temptation to cut ties immediately

  • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 14:39
    +110

    Update!

    Call received from conveyancer suggesting maybe we should part ways and “I can find a cheap Lebanese guy in auburn or some Vietnamese guy out back of Bankstown”

    Goodness… I didn’t know the racism came free

    • Daabido on 23/01/2019 - 14:47

      Bonus!

    • GG57 on 23/01/2019 - 15:00
      +10

      Maybe they are on OzBargain and noticed this

      • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 15:13
        +3

        I did wonder that.

    • ihbh on 23/01/2019 - 15:39

      What is the separation cost? That is, any outstanding cost on your part?

      • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 15:42
        +1

        TBC!

    • subywagon on 23/01/2019 - 16:18
      +58

      “I can find a cheap Lebanese guy in auburn or some Vietnamese guy out back of Bankstown”

      Name and shame, that's disgusting!

      • congo on 27/01/2019 - 15:20
        +1

        Shouldn't it be: Vietnamese from Cabramatta?

    • cainen on 25/01/2019 - 09:47
      +5

      Four years ago I went with a cheap Vietnamese guy (girl) from out the back of Canley Vale. The communication wasn't great but it went fine all for the sum of $900.

      • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 15:27

        LOL - racism! (except its true).

        Until it all goes wrong and then you are completely screwed.

    • wozz on 25/01/2019 - 11:52
      +7

      Omfg wow… definitely sounds like you're better of without this conveyancor.. thats next level

    • AustriaBargain on 25/01/2019 - 13:02
      +14

      You'd better leave a Google Maps review calling the racism out. You need to do your best to make sure this whole thing ends up costing them more than $3965 in lost business.

    • kaleidoscope on 25/01/2019 - 13:17
      +1

      not you should, but you must name and shame + make official complaign regarding their services

    • hamwhisperer on 25/01/2019 - 14:31

      Time to name and shame this prick.

      • Hoju on 25/01/2019 - 14:39
        +1

        See below ;)

  • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 14:51
    +3

    So… anyone know an affordable no sneaky fees conveyancer :) ha. I’ll start searching

    • GG57 on 23/01/2019 - 14:59
      +1

      I don't know, but maybe try: http://www.findaconveyancer.com.au/

    • kolorijo on 23/01/2019 - 15:25
      +2

      We employed Svetlana's conveyancing service and happy with her service and professionalism https://thorpeconveyancing.com.au/

      Alternatively

      Fiona Sephton from Lane and Lane Hornsby, which we are extremely happy with as well.
      http://www.lanelane.com.au/

      We weren't looking for budget friendly option (they are average cost wise) but quality reliable conveyancing service is paramount to help you in your biggest financial commitment and the fee is small in the grand scheme of thing.

      And they definitely did not charge $3000+ for their work :D

      • HighAndDry on 23/01/2019 - 16:31
        +1

        Fiona Sephton from Lane and Lane Hornsby

        Can confirm - professional and competent.

    • orbitalpaul on 24/01/2019 - 08:03
      +2

      We just used conveyonline.com.au. Christie and Quyen were brilliant. $1200-ish all up

    • snook on 25/01/2019 - 00:53

      http://www.donnafuchs.com.au/

      Campbelltown

      Couldn't recommend highly enough. I have personally used her service on a couple of occasions and she goes above and beyond to help. She even found me better loans and bank managers.

      Huge jobs, around $1500 in total. Nothing upfront. I do everything by email and just go to sign the paperwork once it's ready to go.

    • bluedolphinsmangos on 25/01/2019 - 10:38
      +1

      We found a local fixed price $1400 property solicitor on LawSeeker.
      Not sure where you live but try: https://www.lawseeker.com.au/lawyer-category/conveyancing

    • devnull73 on 25/01/2019 - 14:36
      +1

      Yep, I hear there's a cheap Lebanese guy in auburn or some Vietnamese guy out back of Bankstown.

      You're welcome.

  • Skramit on 23/01/2019 - 14:59
    +6

    My conveyancor (she was awesome) fees for a purchase are $770 (including GST) plus disbursements which includes statutory searches of approx $300

    Not sure how yours can justify $3k.

    • devnull73 on 25/01/2019 - 14:36
      +1

      Crack habit most likely.

  • one man clan on 23/01/2019 - 15:13
    +6

    Consider going with a lawyer rather than conveyancer. The Law Society is really strict on fee shenanigans and you shouldn't pay more than $1500 for a standard conveyance.

    • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 15:21
      +1

      But the conveyancer said that a solicitor is like a GP and conveyancers are specialists, like an ENT surgeon
      Hmm

      • nedski on 23/01/2019 - 15:27
        +25

        This is crap!

        Conveyancing is like bread and butter for some solicitors. There is nothing specialist about being a conveyancer.

        The lawyer I have used for my 2 property purchases has only charged me less than $1k each time plus expenses of about $150.

        • Cyphar on 25/01/2019 - 09:26
          +2

          Conveyancing is like bread and butter for some solicitors

          This. We used a solicitor twice now. It's easy money for them and a walk in the park for me without fear of being ripped off.

        • vid_ghost on 25/01/2019 - 10:27
          +1

          use a lawyer and you have less issues.. :) good advice

      • garetz on 23/01/2019 - 15:32
        +25

        Of course they would say that, but its actually the other way around, a solicitor is the specialist, the conveyancer doesnt have the education to call themselves a solicitor, so therefore conveyancer. Its like comparing a chiropractor to a Surgeon.

        • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 15:33
          +1

          Yeh rest assured I wasn’t convinced
          The process we had with a solicitor 10 years ago for a fraction of the cost was so much smoother. Would’ve gone with them except they are now too far away

          • mingofmongo on 24/01/2019 - 15:12
            +3

            @Hoju: Are you Homer Junior? What do the kids call you?

          • josho9 on 25/01/2019 - 01:15

            @Hoju: Solicitors fees (and fee disclosure) are quite tightly regulated. You can get a small firm of solicitors to give you a fixed quote for conveyancing work.

            • nedski on 25/01/2019 - 10:29

              @josho9: Im assuming that Hoju is a Korean Australian…

              • blitz on 25/01/2019 - 16:37
                +3

                @nedski: No, it's a Simpsons reference:

                Homer: "Do you want to change your name to Homer Jr.? The kids can call you HoJu."

                • nedski on 25/01/2019 - 18:21

                  @blitz: Ahh also, Hoju is Korean for Australia

      • ihbh on 23/01/2019 - 15:37
        +1

        You're a GP? And you took it to heart?

      • HighAndDry on 23/01/2019 - 16:31
        +3

        That is hilariously wrong.

      • Powershopz on 25/01/2019 - 11:05
        +4

        Lol that's bullshit. What a crook. Conveyancers are the equivalent of someone who has done a 12 hour training course. A solicitor actually has to have studied in a higher education environment.

      • No ONE on 25/01/2019 - 11:22
        +1

        Lol. It's like accountants are not competent enough to provide financial planning, but financial planners at bank are competent enough to provide a biased advise.

      • subywagon on 26/01/2019 - 01:04

        But the conveyancer said that a solicitor is like a GP and conveyancers are specialists, like an ENT surgeon
        Hmm

        lol it's definitely the other way around, especially when you employ a property law specialist. I've been in a bad situation and employed a property law specialist up against just a conveyancer. The conveyancer was way out of their league (even said so to our solicitor!) and I was successful with my case.

      • oztite on 26/01/2019 - 23:44

        ENT surgeon = 6 year medical school + 3 years basic training + 5 years advanced training + 2 years fellowship.

        He is a Certified Practicing Conveyancer (CPC) and Degree Qualified Accountant… that's 3 years university plus 5 years of, well, working in the field of conveyancing…

      • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 15:30
        +1

        conveyancers are specialists, like an ENT surgeon

        OMG! That is the funniest thing I have ever read…. They can't even act if it goes to Court! Its like a ENT Surgeon without the N, the T and the Surgeon part!

        • subywagon on 27/01/2019 - 23:57
          +1

          He is a Certified Practicing Conveyancer (CPC) and Degree Qualified Accountant… that's 3 years university plus 5 years of, well, working in the field of conveyancing

          Yep, and ZERO years in court relating to real estate. None of those qualifications or accounting experience is going to help you if the sh$t hits the fan. I've used conveyancers before, and will again, but if there's going to be a tricky situation I'll go with a solicitor any day of the week. Anyone can do conveyancing. You can actually do your own conveyancing if you can be stuffed to save a couple of hundred bucks…

  • nedski on 23/01/2019 - 15:25
    +9

    If they were a legal firm that did this, I would highly recommend reporting them to the relevant Law Society. This seems bang out of order.

    • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 15:30
      -1

      But it wasn't.

  • djkelly69 on 23/01/2019 - 16:17
    +7

    If you haven't signed any costs agreements with them they can't demand you pay it.

    Ask them to close your files and return everything to you, and for itemised invoices of the work done on your matters. Review itemised invoices, pay (if ok) or dispute, and be done with them.

    Also name and shame??

    • silo on 23/01/2019 - 16:19
      +1

      Ha! You beat me to it by 2 mins

  • silo on 23/01/2019 - 16:18

    so… we're not going to name and shame then?

    • HighAndDry on 23/01/2019 - 16:32
      +6

      At the very least wait until OP has gotten their file.

      • Hoju on 23/01/2019 - 18:27

        Yeh keen to see how he responds to the separation of service request. I’d grant some kudos if he didn’t invoice for the minimal services provided in the purchase process.

        • WhyAmICommenting on 25/01/2019 - 17:33

          Yeah but what about the poor bastards after you?

          • Hoju on 25/01/2019 - 17:40
            +1

            @WhyAmICommenting: Details are below. I was giving the guy a chance and a couple of days to redeem himself

  • djkelly69 on 23/01/2019 - 16:31

    Other than WA (where dodgy 'settlement agents' can act for both parties and can charge on a legislated scale based on price), I have literally never heard of someone charging for a conveyance based on a function of the price of the property.

    (Yes I know solicitor's fees used to all be based on a scale, but that was a long time ago.)

    • jackspratt on 24/01/2019 - 15:15

      No longer the case in WA, where fees have been deregulated.

      However:

      Settlement agents set their own fees which must be disclosed to the client in writing prior to entering into any agreement. Agents must not receive a fee above the disclosed amount unless there is a significant change in the scope of the work.

      https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumer-protection/settlemen…

    • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 15:33

      Sometimes they do scale for rural (usually farm), commercial or ultra expensive property (does it have a wharf for example, etc).

  • lainey13 on 23/01/2019 - 22:35
    +1

    I see a lot of internet reviews coming up at some reasonable point in the future…

  • eqv on 23/01/2019 - 23:48
    +2

    Licensed Conveyancers are regulated by NSW Fair Trading.

    Legal practitioners and conveyancers must disclose their costs to clients, including the client’s right to negotiate a costs agreement, receive bills and be advised of changes.

    https://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/housing-and-property/buyi…

    • Ti-au on 27/01/2019 - 15:33

      NSW Fair Trading.

      Have fun!

  • Samsungnote10 on 24/01/2019 - 01:54

    I have a recommended very affordable one,

    Pm me if interested

  • boccos on 24/01/2019 - 07:44

    Our daughter had issues with a pricey Lawyer, so decided to do the conveyancing herself for a property purchase (no mortgage). She got all the necessary information from the Stamps Office & other QLD government Offices, then lodged the paperwork and worked through the requirements on some grey areas. There were no issues from the State Government with a person doing the conveyancing themselves.

    • Hoju on 24/01/2019 - 08:04

      It did cross my mind but to be honest I wouldn’t have a clue where to start or finish, and while there are guides available, the going rate is something I’m ok with paying (just not what I was quoted by this guy!)

    • HighAndDry on 24/01/2019 - 10:50
      +13

      While I'm glad it worked for your daughter, I wouldn't recommend this for anyone. As with all legal things, there's just so many potential unknown unknowns, that you wouldn't know to ask about, if you don't have some base knowledge to begin with.

      • boccos on 25/01/2019 - 08:09
        +1

        The hardest thing was to get the various Government Departments to work together in a timely matter. Would not recommend doing it yourself if you have a mortgage.

  • elgrande on 24/01/2019 - 15:26
    +2

    P.s. $695 for contract prep sounds pricey to me.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2019 - 01:22

    I paid $600 24 years ago as that seemed reasonable.
    However many people do it themselves, if it was $1000+ I'd have done my own searches and paperwork.

    I guess the conveyancer here simply forgot to get a contract signed with OP. Glad it worked out.

  • d39833 on 25/01/2019 - 02:00

    Any recommendations for Conveyancers in Perth?

    • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2019 - 10:10

      I mentioned above it was 24y ago, but they're still there, so maybe check them out as it was a good experience.
      They are at the back of the Hub shopping centre in Kwinana/Parmelia. They're in the section at the back with the hockshop and AutoOne and Salvos I think is there.

      • devnull73 on 25/01/2019 - 14:39
        +1

        sounds reputable.

    • psyren89 on 25/01/2019 - 16:41

      Stuart at Rediset Conveyancing was fantastic.

  • knitwear on 25/01/2019 - 07:25
    +3

    Conveyancing fees of $2990

    More than $3k for conveyancing? Good lord. Ours were $1800 for a solicitor, and that already includes few document reviews more than the 5 he gave for free.

  • Zondor on 25/01/2019 - 08:46

    Mine was $750, I'm in Adelaide though.

  • MikeHunt on 25/01/2019 - 08:58
    +1

    Got a lawyer for $1,000+GST.
    Very happy with the service.
    PM me if you want the details.

    • richmond12 on 13/02/2019 - 12:52

      Location/state?

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