I recently started buying and drinking alkaline water with a PH between 9-10. Do you think it's worth it?
Is alkaline water worth the money?
Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead on 15/08/2018 - 18:31
Last edited 15/08/2018 - 18:32
Last edited 15/08/2018 - 18:32
Poll Options
- 12Worth the money
- 358Not worth the money
- 30Bikies
Comments
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- 2
the alkaline water is useless
Reflux is a different kettle of fishThe (possible) beneficial effect of alkaline water on reflux is due it's denaturing effect on pepsin. See the study in my comment above.
That study was in vitro, meaning it was performed within a controlled environment outside of any living organism. IE in a beaker.
The issue with that method is as I explained above, our body has systems in place to maintain the correct acid/alkaline levels. Obviously in a beaker on a bench, the body has no opportunity to correct the levels.
Which is summed up in the conclusion of the study.the consumption of alkaline water MAY have therapeutic benefits.
The question is not if alkaline water can raise the alkalinity of another fluid it mixes with, the question is will the bodies natural systems quickly restore the body to the previous levels.
The study is also only regarding Pepsin being active in the higher alkaline environment. Again, the question should be can we raise the alkaline level enough in the body to the denature pepsin.
Good points. It may be that temporarily raising the alkaline level of the gut enough to denature whatever pepsin is present at the time may have some benefit, even if the previous pH balance is quickly restored. Or it may not be possible, or it may not have a tangible benefit ;)
There are other studies that also show some benefit but unfortunately they don't differentiate between alkaline water and other dietary measures:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29100672
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/28880991
Interesting guys, I'm clearly out of my league here. So it's possibly the effect on my pepsin that I experience the relief?
Thanks for the explanation on the CO2 effect in the water, that certainly makes sense.
As for reflux, for years I took sodium bicarbonate, (sodium intake aside) I learnt that's a habit I should stop and did. I (perhaps incorrectly) assumed it was raising my gastric acid PH too far towards the alkaline which is why I stopped so that could maintain the levels it should naturally be at.
That's it, it very much MAY have a short term effect, it certainly wont hurt either way. If it gives relief, that's all that matters.
Are you taking these measures solely to counteract reflux and heartburn?
Heartburn is often a symptom of Gastroesophageal reflux disease, so we will leave it alone for a bit.Reflux itself is not caused by the acid levels in your stomach. Trying to change these is fruitless.
We have a little door that needs to close to stop the acid from entering the esophagus, this sphincter (such a great word.) can have issues closing which increases the regularity of reflux. There are many causes that can prevent the sphincter from operating correctly, but a bit of food for thought.
Anti-reflux medications like omeprazole are effective and lower increase the pH of your stomach by about 1 unit if taking 1 pill per day. They work by covalently binding to the large protein molecule that pump Hydrogen ions (acid) into your stomach cavity. It takes about 3 days for the deactivated pumps to be replaced by new ones.
If you take too high a dose of stomach acid lowering drugs your intentines and bowels will become irritable (it takes a while for them to adjust to changes in pH). The changes, of course, are confined to the gastro-intestinal tract (which is considered by biolists to be outside of your body), and don't impact upon the blood's pH.
Disregarding everything else you said, you realise apple cider vinegar is acidic right?
Raw ACV is the only vinegar that is alkaline-forming to the body. All other vinegars (white, balsamic, red wine, etc) are acid-forming. Lime works the same way.
I don't have the scientific knowledge that some of my OB comrades above have but I know if I'm experiencing bad heart burn, ACV will help me every time. I don't know how, it just does. Must be spooky action at a distance.
Raw ACV is the only vinegar that is alkaline-forming to the body
This statement is plastered all over alternative therapy websites, diet sites etc.
Yet I can find zero scientific or medical journals to back up the statement, it certainly isn't a new claim, but I wouldn't put to much stock in it without further information.If you have a reliable source of said info, I'd love to have a read.
I only know it helps me personally with relief. As did bicarb soda but between the two I'm sure ACV is the healthier choice.
@Click_It: Same here. A wee bit of ACV before a meal aids my digestion and baking soda is great for bloating.
Apple Cider Vinegar is acidic, it is just not as strong an acidic as other vinegars. Claims that this magically becomes alkaline seem like complete and utter bullshit.
You're making an unjustified logical implication.
A. ACV helps you with stomach problems
B. Stomach contains aciddoesn't not imply:
C: ACV is alkaline
since there are many other reasons that can explain A, including spookiness, but then that just passes the burden of proof to spookiness.
I see that Australia needs not just more science but also more logic.
@Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead: supposedly it has some potential health benefits (unproven) and can potentially help with some forms of acid reflux by being the right ACIDIDITY to trigger the stomach sphincter to properly close(that could also be a myth but I think I remember some studies on that some time back).
but as green possum says you are making false logic jumps, just because your stomach is acidic and ACV seems to help that doesn't mean ACV, which in itself is most definitely acidic, must somehow become alkaline.
@gromit: "Apple Cider Vinegar is acidic, it is just not as strong an acidic as other vinegars. Claims that this magically becomes alkaline seems like complete and utter bullshit."
Been using it for years and works wonders. In fact it's helped so many people for thousands of years.
Both of these have worked for me. In fact worked for thousands of years if you care to check history…..
Apple Cider Vinegar is acidic, it is just not as strong an acidic as other vinegars.
Claims that this magically becomes alkaline seem like complete and utter bullshit.It's not an extraordinary claim to say that an acidic food can have an alkaline load on the body, in fact this is well supported in more than a 100 years of science. The actual pH of a food doesn't have much to do with its acid/alkaline buffering potential, but rather constituents such as phosphorous, potassium, magnesium, etc.
Take the example of lemons: an acidic food item, known to produce an alkaline ash at least as far back as 1912. You can look up the values of various foods yourself, whether determined through the ash analysis method (from the 1800s) or the more modern PRAL method(from the 1990s).
Raw ACV is the only vinegar that is alkaline-forming to the body
All other vinegars (white, balsamic, red wine, etc) are acid-forming.
.
This statement is plastered all over alternative therapy websites, diet sites etc.
Yet I can find zero scientific or medical journals to back up the statementThe research from Remer & Manz shows that actually both apple vinegar and balsamic vinegar contribute an alkaline load to the body, although "apple vinegar" is stronger.
I don't have access to their original research right now, so I can't comment if their apple vinegar was cloudy/unrefined or distilled. PRAL values from this adapted table (negative means alkaline potential):
https://www.precisionnutrition.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/0…Apples -2.2
Apple juice -2.2
*Apple vinegar -2.3Grapes -3.9
Grape juice -1.0
Red wine -2.4
*Balsamic vinegar -1.6
Disregarding everything else you said, you realise apple cider vinegar is acidic right?
That's a reasonable question. It's actually well accepted that apples and citrus fruits (acidic) will leave an alkaline ash, for which you can find references in journals going back further than 100 years. Or under another more recent test (PRAL) to have an alkaline load. It's not so much about the pH of the food going in, but the end effect after metabolism. In the case of apple cider vinegar our bodies produce alkaline byproducts, and IIRC its an irreversible metabolic process. It's been 4 years since I actually looked up the chemistry sorry.
The debate is more around the significance to human health. Food doesn't typically change the blood pH much more than 0.2, but the biggest changes can be seen in the urine - including the potential for chronic loss of calcium in order to tightly buffer the blood pH to 7.40.
I've found that most of the "alkaline diet" proponents on the net badly misunderstand the basics of the topic, but IMO they're generally correct about the need for some kind of balance. Here's a critical review of the alkaline diet which is fairly informative, including tables of normal pH levels in various fluids of the body, and some example PRAL values of foods:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3195546/Edit: Here's non-peer reviewed article if you're still suspicious about how low pH foods can become alkaline after metabolism:
https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/lemon-juice-acidic-or-a…Thanks, very informative!
I just stick with basic water. ;)
Human blood pH normal range is 7.35-7.45 and is very tightly regulated regardless of what you eat (unless you're slamming HCO3 powder for some odd reason), don't waste your money.
The product is snake oil.
Snake oil works great.
Had this squeaky door. Wasn't sure if aging hinges or rat infestation.
I suspect we've been baited.
Oh well, I'm all for calling out the absurdness of alkaline diets so this passes by me.
Hi
If you successfully alkalinise the ph of your blood you will die. Fortunately we have buffers to stop these things from happeningEneloop water is better than alkaline, stay away from super heavy duty though
Thanks for raising this topic OP. What is everyone's thought on alkaline water and alkaline food for people with gout?
i used to have gout and consuming more alkaline food has got rid of it.
Yeah OP pick up some of the following aswell for an awesome health 'stack':
Herbalife shakes
Organo Gold coffee
Doterra oilsWith your lemon detox and coffee enema!
A product for the gullibleDoes the coffee have to be freshly brewed or cooled?
Cold drip of course ;)
I looked into the alkaline argument sometime ago as a mate of mine swore that it works. My research inti various books/academic journals/articles has indicated that the alkaline argument is unsubstantiated, whose claims can only be supported by the placebo effects at best.
If u r after something scientifically proven, alkaline water is definitely not it (as most of the comments have pointed out). A lot of their claims are just bs coupled with very clever marketing.
However, science has also proven that there is some benefit from placebo… So if that's ur thing… Go for it.
The placebo effect is an interesting topic. Can be applied to almost anything.
Placebos should be taken with a healthy dose of scepticism, they don't always work.
It would be good if doses of scepticism could be dispensed to the gullible public. :)
True, having said that some pharmaceutical drugs don't work and actually do damage to the body.
If it makes you happy or better, then do it
I know it's hard sometimes guys (given the number of honest, but batsh*t insane posts we see around here), but this is clearly a troll post.
Alkaline diets are becoming more and more popular and talked about in society. Nothing trollish about it John.
Quite possibly driven by the ‘let’s talk about something, call it new and market it hard so we can sell it to suckers’
I’m not up on diet trends, but they’ve been and gone many times over. This is just the latest fad.
Waste of money.
Pseudo science is alive & well!
People focusing on whether drinking it has any effect on blood alkalinity or not - short answer is no, it does not. No matter how much science you throw on the pile about pH and acids, the simple fact is drinking doesn't change it, so the water is immediately debunked.
However, try to assess why this fad even took off: it started from a misconception of an observation that some cancers produce acid. The thought was "ah! Cancer can't survive in alkaline solution!" But is that true? Nope. Most likely the cancer observed was secreting the acid NOT to change the surrounding environment, but in order to change it's INTERNAL environment and regulate it's own pH (and become MORE ALKALINE.)
Having said that, not all cancer is alike, some do the exact opposite, and some can alkalise your blood to dangerous levels. Cancer is as cancer does.
So now we've debunked two parts of the myth. 1) Alkaline water doesn't change your blood alkalinity. 2) Blood alkalinity is not associated with cancer.
Now, I would normally end any health food debunking by saying "but, there's no harm, so if you enjoy the placebo effect, then go ahead, it doesn't do any harm!" But actually, alkaline water is expensive. Very un-Ozbargain.
One major effect of tumours secreting acids into surrounding tissue you haven't mentioned is that it's been shown to inhibit the response of immune cells - in particular natural killer cells.
The bigger question is if altering the diet or taking sodium bicarbonate would change the above scenario, and frankly there's not enough quality evidence to say.
PH level in tap water is around 4.5 which is high in acid, so I guess your doing more good for your health.
Australian drinking water guidelines state it should be between 6.5 and 8.5. Locally the 12 month average was 7.5 so we get free alkaline water! It’s awesome for your health.
Has anyone actually tested these levels in the tap water?
Why would anyone test it? The water corporations can be trusted to only send us compliant water.
@Zedsdeadbabyzedsdead: of course. After reading this post I have now done some thorough testing on alkaline water and can honestly say that after drinking it I have 37% less flatulence, 18% more energy and a 92% lighter wallet. Im waiting for test results for my gullibility, but suspect it will be higher as my placebo rating has increased.
I think your plumber made a mistake and connected your pipes to the orange juice mains!
No but coconut water is
Fresh coconuts are best (If available).
I like coconuts too. Look out someone's going to scream saturated fats any moment now.
Eat more than 2 in a row, certain death…
I did it for a year last year. Bought a bottle of Acqua Panna just about every day on the way to work from Woolies at Southern Cross.
I didn't get the flu last year and so far this year.
Woolworth have since increased the price of the water to $3.50 so I stopped buying it unless it goes on sale.
These days I just drink Fiji water.
But yes, drink high pH water.I had a look at Fiji water, it's around 7.4. Nice water though.
Some decent fishing in this thread. Well done OP.
If I had a fishing rod I know where I'd stick it….
Fresh, salt or alkaline?
Any bargains on getting our schools to teach some proper critical thinking, science (biology), and skepticism (vs denial)?
As long as people pay for religious education companies to teach their children, this will never happen
Or teaching to use ones imagination, I suppose Einstein is wrong now along with Tesla and the like.
I hate that sort of argument. Science builds off previous science (shoulders of giants and all that). We don't go well Newton's full of shit because Einstein's model of gravity was more accurate. Just because we can increase our knowledge over time is in no way a justification for believing in unsubstantiated pseudoscience. That is a pathetic logical fallacy.
"We don't go well Newton's full of shit because Einstein's model of gravity was more accurate"
That doesn't make sense…
Highly doubt it will have any meaningful benefit. Without a doubt will not effect your blood pH at all. Maybe will akalise your urine a tiny bit, but I doubt even that. Might neutralise a tiny bit of stomach acid, but far less than a Mylanta would but at greater expense. Only potential for any meaningful change I could see is an alkaline diet changing your gut flora (bacteria) which could be beneficial or harmful.
"I could see is an alkaline diet changing your gut flora (bacteria) which could be beneficial or harmful."
60% of the time, everytime.
have you noticed any difference since you been drinking it?
i've been drinking it for a few weeks now
Before I answer what have you been drinking and how much? hiccup…
nearly 2 litres per day, and honestly i do feel a difference.
i'm trying it as cancer seems to run in my family
https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/wellness/fat-burnin…
"Acid-neutralizing alkaline water
The claim: Because it’s less acidic than tap water and contains more minerals, proponents believe alkaline water can neutralize the acid in your blood and lead to better health. Website sales pitches claim alkaline water can help you lose weight, avoid diabetes, live longer, fight cancer and, my favorite, boost your immune system. (See above.)
The reality: “For alkaline water to work, it would have to overcome a very strong protective mechanism that we all have: Our blood is always kept within a very strict pH range. Drinking alkaline water won’t change that, especially since our stomach’s acid will neutralize the alkalinity. It’s pseudoscience, pure and simple,” says Jarry, though alkaline water will probably quench your thirst.
If you want to make alkaline water at home, a water filter costs anywhere from $400 to $1,500. Science says: Save your money and drink plain old water instead."
Any changes you feel, OP?
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You might be interested in this study on alkaline water and reflux:
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22844861