eBay seller scam that bypass both eBay and PayPal protection

Lshoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 05:42
Last edited 26/06/2018 - 05:46

A scam that I have fallen for and bypass both eBay and PayPal protections. About to boycott both eBay and PayPal for good due to them not taking action when there is proof it was a scam committed by seller.

Reason why both eBay and PayPal siding with the seller is that claim can be item not as described or item not recieved. They have their text book approach that that will side with the seller.

As for how the scam work, the seller send a junk/empty tracking letter to YOUR local business/ public service (eg library) with tracking code. The seller then can report to eBay/PayPal with the tracking information showing item is delivered. Online tracking only display suburb it was sent to and that it was delivered (no signature is needed if item is below a threshold).

With the tracking code, both eBay/PayPal will side with seller if you open an item not recieved case. On the other hand because you don’t recieved anything there is nothing to send back for item not as described. They will close the item not as described case if they are aware that you didn’t recieved anything, resulting in you losing that option.

I have an official email from the Australia post showing that the item, both in dimension and weight couldn’t be the item I have order. I though, lucky I have evidences of this scam committed by the seller… Guess what, both eBay and PayPal ignore this and side with the seller due to tracking number was provided by seller showing something was sent to the buyer suburb.

PayPal claim they are not like eBay and will look into evidences you have, but I find it false. They don’t even request anything from me and just side with the seller due to them having a tracking number showing something was delivered in my suburb. Both PayPal and eBay is aware that I have an offical letter from Australia Post proving the seller couldn’t physically sent the item I have paid for.

Hope more people are now aware of this scam and that both PayPal and eBay will not protect you.

General Discussion

Related Stores

eBay Australia
eBay Australia
Marketplace

Comments

    • idonotknowwhy on 27/06/2018 - 14:06
      +8

      This (taking a video) saved me when a real estate agent tried to get me to pay an extra 2 weeks rent for not returning the key to their letter box like they asked me to do. 2 weeks later, they demanded the ~$50 / day for rent saying I didn't return the keys. I send them a video of me returning the keys and suddenly they 'found the keys'.

      • Zachary on 27/06/2018 - 14:26

        HAhahahahahahaha nice…..

  • keverns on 26/06/2018 - 22:14

    recently happened to me twice in 2 months

    seems like scammers steal/hack accounts.

    i generally buy from +500 feedbacks (no negatives), when the ebay 10-15% promotions were on, the seller would end up selling 30-40x $500-1000 in like 2 hours.

    then only to receive. A letter, with a signature to sign label.
    they didnt even write… "to.MRxxx"
    just put my name at the back of the "return" so it got returned to me.

    just put my dispute and still in the process to "wait for the seller to reply" until eBay can step in.
    what a drainer.

    • shoppingbag on 27/06/2018 - 10:27

      I don’t think it a hack account in my case. Too many things point otherwise.

      Yes, it is a time sink, which result in some people dropping the process since it not worth the time and effort. Sad that it’s become like that.

  • Uykhuong on 27/06/2018 - 00:40

    I expereince that once.

    Bough an iphone x from a seller which he sent me a cd player.

    I took the picture of the package with the tracking number he provided.

    My suggestion is to call foe the review of the case.

    Take a picture of the parcel with the tracking number the seller provided.

    When you call ebay, they seem to be on your side,.

    • shoppingbag on 27/06/2018 - 10:33

      Unfortunate for me I never recieve anything. Causing it to create this silly situation, both EBay and PayPal having no real policy resolve this. Just continue reopen of case unless base on their here have mention;
      police report
      ombudsman
      Credit card charge back

      Thank you to all those who provided those information.

  • ssjwill on 27/06/2018 - 02:26
    +4

    was the seller "discountbrandsaustralia" (aka chaletessentials.com.au or knivesonline.com.au)? I think they just tried to pull the same move on me.
    Sent an tracking number by couriers please which never worked on the tracking website, then I noticed on eBay they suddenly changed to an Australia Post tracking number.

    Luckily eBay stepped in and I got refunded

    • shoppingbag on 27/06/2018 - 02:55

      U won the award.

      The question is why Ebay didn’t do it for me? They just ignore all evidences.

      Edit: when did Ebay step in for you if u don’t mind me asking?

      • ssjwill on 27/06/2018 - 03:10

        eBay just stepped in after the normal wait. I emailed chaletessentials and got a reply from a "Sammy Jones" giving me the run around saying "I tried calling couriers please but was on hold for 40min, I'll try again tomorrow" etc etc

        "Unfortunately, we didn't receive valid tracking information from the seller. We're sorry you had a problem with your purchase."

        Edit: It's a shame because they were part of the ebay 20% off sale and most of their reviews are ok…but then delving into their negative feedback I can see quite a few buyers having the same issue

        • resisting the urge on 27/06/2018 - 09:27
          +1

          https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/discountbrandsaustralia* @98.3%
          https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/chalet-online* @98.5%
          https://www.ebay.com.au/usr/knives-online* @99.3%

          Never go by ratings, always read the negative and neutral feedback. Only this tells you what the vendors achieve. These are just a few of the cases where they fail to supply AND fail to fix (as most buyers don't leave feedback or it gets removed)

          When vendors have feedback in the low thousands around these figures they have a problem, when >10,000, this is how they do business. Most likely, they are gaming the system.

          Whether it will happen to you is a matter of chance. Do you want to take it? Well do ya?

          In a case of multiple stores, the vendor is moving online stores to get away from the negative feedback. eBay is supporting them in order to profit by charging each time for a new store. This is part of what eBay should fix.

      • loke on 27/06/2018 - 08:30

        PC Byte is doing the same thing, still in the process, took months to get any email response or warranty support had to paypal dispute (stupidly let it lapse) then do a card chargeback into a claim and looking into the paypal case under review they've provided an invalid tracking number to Paypal.

        • YadaYadaYada on 27/06/2018 - 14:38

          @loke I bought something from PC byte and one of the HDDs I bought had quite a few issues. They replaced it for free when I visited one of their physical stores in Sydney - they have ones in Silverwater and Hornsby.

        • loke on 27/06/2018 - 19:23

          @YadaYadaYada:

          Yeah I live interstate in Melbourne, the PSU is shoddy (850w psu aerocool project 7, further searching online just confirms that the whole line itself is probably shit) craps out whenever under load when playing games with a 1080ti, this was an issue I had for about 5months plus before just ending up buying a sea sonic 650w locally. Had to PayPal claim to get any sort of response out of them without them dragging their feet (even then it took the whole 20days and they hadn’t issued a refund).

          It says a lot about pc byte when they give me the runaround, and do the same scummy fake tracking number like in OP’s case.

        • CheapCoffee on 27/06/2018 - 23:26
          +1

          @loke:

          Ah I just built a new computer and I was looking into that particular PSU and found somewhere the entire line is pretty shit.

          Just ended up buying a Corsair 80+ Gold one.

        • loke on 30/06/2018 - 12:19

          @CheapCoffee:

          At the time of my purchase of the Aerocool Project 7 850W I looked up tomshardware / jonnyguru / kitguru / w/e tech review sites of the PSU, all came back positive (even linustechtips forum -obviously not as good a source as the above- put it in the tier 1/S/A in some forum tier list).

          Random reboots for 5months+ while playing games under load (tried switching cable connections around, powerboard) etc (gaming session might look like this 30mins reboot, 6mins reboot, 5mins reboot, etc)

          I just searched overwatch relevant topic initially:
          1
          2
          3
          4

          nvidia forums have a nice thread regarding shoddy PSUs 1080TIs and random reboots:

          1

          searched using aorus specific terms:

          1
          2 - probably not so relevant

          final straw :

          1 UK fellow had issues with the particular model, tracked him down to reddit too w/ my search 2. And now i see another search term at the top of google 3.

          Way too long w/ no response from pcbyte by then and just quoted ACCC and asked for a refund as it's a major flaw that can easily be widespread.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 27/06/2018 - 13:18

        The question is why Ebay didn’t do it for me?

        To be frank, your writing style is not the easiest to follow. You have had to clarify your stories to many commenters here. Perhaps eBay and PayPal didn't understand you. And when you are not understood people may disregard what you have to say.

        When dealing with these matters you need to communicate factually and assertively. List all the facts in chronological order and follow them up with a demand for a resolution which you think is reasonable. Save your opinions for the end or don't include them at all.

        • shoppingbag on 27/06/2018 - 16:11

          Fair point.

          I tend to write via touchscreen nowadays. Thus when I rephrase thing, some wording wasn’t change to fit the sentence. Highlighting and selecting text process does distract me from my line of thought.

  • h4zey on 27/06/2018 - 09:52

    My case is identical but from seller perspective. Send the items purchased by the buyer, but buyer claimed that they never received the items and eBay sided with them :( anyway lucky it's under 10 bucks.

    • shoppingbag on 27/06/2018 - 10:45

      Sorry to hear that.

      Ebay/PayPal have their policy on how things needed to be sent. It does changes and eBay can’t seem to fix the mess they create of things, creating a safe heaven for scammer who’s know the system.

      Ebay had so much going for it here in Australia. Now to drum up business, instead of spending money on improving things, they used sales and coupon codes. Create more traffic while and exposing people to the same ratio of scammer That approach might be good for short term but in the long term imo it will harm them more with competitors like amazon.au and gumtree.

  • Ryxxi on 27/06/2018 - 13:29

    ombudsman is ur friend here.

  • skimp on 27/06/2018 - 13:38

    Just wondering, would using Australia Post Parcel Locker have helped prove the case that the buyer never received the item?

    • tomclancy on 27/06/2018 - 14:25

      No, you can deliver a satchel of air to a Parcel Locker as well

      • skimp on 27/06/2018 - 17:52

        True but at least you have the package as prove as oppose to having it sent elsewhere.

        • tomclancy on 27/06/2018 - 20:03

          In the OP's case, they did receive a letter. An empty letter, with tracking.

          In a different hypothetical case, if a package was sent not to your address then it's an open & shut win for the buyer's dispute "item not received". Having a parcel locker in this case wouldn't change anything

        • skimp on 27/06/2018 - 22:52

          @tomclancy: "the seller send a junk/empty tracking letter to YOUR local business/ public service (eg library)".

          I don't think OP ever received the item, did he?

        • shoppingbag on 28/06/2018 - 00:29

          @skimp:

          Correct, I never recieve anything.

        • shoppingbag on 28/06/2018 - 00:37

          @tomclancy:

          Firstly, Australia post from what I understand don’t keep info of the final address. The online tracking only shows suburb and that is good enough for both eBay/PayPal to confirm that it was delivered to the intended party.

          With seller that know the system and want to scam buyer, they just need to ensure they sent it to an address which is in the same suburb as the buyer. Both eBay and PayPal accept that it got deliver to buyer correctly and Australia post usually can not confirm if it is/isn’t address to the buyer.

          An open and shut case that reward the scamming sell unfortunately.

        • tomclancy on 28/06/2018 - 10:02

          @skimp: Oh, my apologies. I read that incorrectly. You are correct

        • skimp on 28/06/2018 - 10:32

          @shoppingbag: I actually experienced the exact same type of scam in 2013, here is my post. My package was sent to another address in my suburb, but luckily the house was vacant so only a pick-up slip was left in the letterbox. I had the help of my local Australia Post agent to track down the address so I could recover the slip and the empty envelop as proof. PayPal honoured my claim and I got my money back.

          Back to my point, which is if the delivery address was a Australia Post Parcel Locker, then the receiver can at least prove that nothing got delivered (if AustPost will provide such proof).

  • lonewolf on 27/06/2018 - 15:44

    I have had the same thing happen to me, the guy sent a coin in the letter and not the actual item. Ebay and Paypal were useless, they sided with the seller due to the tracking no. I had to do a chargeback.

    • tomclancy on 27/06/2018 - 20:04

      Sweet - you profit! Your scammer is one of the nicer ones :)

  • 4892 on 28/06/2018 - 04:13
    +1

    Just a few tips in case you haven't tried already or want to try again.

    Put together a full factual timeline of the events including your interactions with Australia Post, the seller (to which ebay can read all communication to and from you to them), tracking, numbers etc. As stated above leave emotion/opinion out of it.

    Log it with the Police, log it with the ombudsman, log it with Australia post, log it with the company who was supposedly the ones which the tracking number initially. If you have the auto generated email from ebay with the old fake tracking number this will also work in your favour. Call the company and get them to get a report to see if in fact this tracking number was ever logged or lodged in their system in the first place. You don't need to show ebay/paypal letters at this stage but make sure to get reference numbers of your case with the businesses (police, Aus post etc) and include them in your communications.

    After you send your message (via the ebay system) call them via the phone. This is vital as a lot of the time you can't even get to someone higher up via just messages.

    Always ask to speak to a supervisor. The general staff you get in the first line and even second at some stages go by a script/guide and generally they don't even have the authority to make any real changes. Demand (politely) that you wish to speak to the supervisor or someone who can actually make decisions and/or changes for this dispute.

    Make sure to always get a reference number when you speak to ebay and paypal. They should be generated and if not ask for it. This can save time when you are put through to someone else as well as when you have to start again from a new call/email.

    Always ask the person who are speaking with to document the conversation. They may say it's logged or recorded etc but you want to make sure they have what you are saying and the information you are providing accurately written in their notes.

    Refer to their current negative feedback with the exact same issue as you. You want them to bring up the sellers profile and navigate them to the comments in questions and confirm that they are seeing what you are seeing while you are on the phone call.

    Don't stand for no. If this has happened to others it will surely happen again. Forget sending them an empty box back, that ship has sailed. You are just wanting to get this case escalated to the right people who will hopefully do some research and see reason. As much as they may say it, ebay and paypal CAN reopen cases and in the worst case scenario they can open a new one attached to your account.

    Other things that can work in your favour is the length of time that you have been a member on ebay. Having your PayPal account linked to your ebay account and all your personal information updated and correct (your name and address is a big one to make sure it's the exact same as where the goods were sent to).

    I wish you luck and I hope you get a result.

    • shoppingbag on 28/06/2018 - 13:59
      +1

      Thanks for compiling the list of actions with some new info added to it in a nice structural process. At this stage I am awaiting response from PayPal. I think I will have much better chance there then with eBay.

  • desync on 28/06/2018 - 08:27
    -3

    hello world

    this is why eBay has FEEDBACK, just don't buy off new ebay sellers or sellers with poor feedback… simples

    • shoppingbag on 28/06/2018 - 13:54

      I know the all the comment in this thread is long and you mightn’t have time to read it all.

      Seller did have over iirc 10000+ feedback and over 98+% positive. Ebay system does allow option for seller to remove some negative feedback. Reading feedback comment alone does help, but you also need a grain of salt while reading for various reason.

    • Felixrising on 08/08/2018 - 20:05

      I bought from a seller with 100 positive reviews and zero negatives, but suddenly heaps of negatives for a scam seller sending tiny parcels with nothing like the described inside. It's no guarantee… But I guess 100 sales isn't the same as thousands… See my post below for my first experience with a scam seller.

  • whirlpool_guy on 28/06/2018 - 11:41

    Local pick up only

  • Mario1234 on 28/06/2018 - 12:01

    Open a not as described case and then send back an empty envelope with tracking, will cost like $5 but at least you get your money back. But the seller won't care and just retry the scam on someone else, unfortunately, no real way to solve the issue as a whole

  • Felixrising on 08/08/2018 - 20:01

    I had this happen to me today. From a seller called "Stable106" had exactly 100 positive reviews and zero negative ones at the time of purchase. They sent an item but when received it had only a key inside. Not a vacuum cleaner! So obviously parcel was too tiny. Anyway, I suspected something could be amis before receiving it, so I videod me receiving the parcel from the postie and opened it on camera clearly showing the tracking and weight. I also spoke to eBay about it immediately sending a photo and a link to the video. The seller now has 8+ negative reviews for exactly the same thing… So the jig is up. Hopefully it'll all work out and the scammers will get what they deserve.

  • TerraFlop on 03/01/2019 - 12:28

    We should create a list of bad sellers on Ozbargain.

    I nearly got ripped off by an Aussie seller saying he sent but 1 month later it still wasn't delivered. The item was listed as being local within the same city. I messaged him and requested a refund he said to wait a couple more days and they will repost it. Again i said i wanted a refund and I'm not going to wait another month for an item what should be delivered in 2 days. Finally had to get ebay involved to get my money back and left him a negative review.

  • thydzik on 11/09/2019 - 13:49

    I've had something similar, sometimes I don't know if it has been pinched or misdelivered by Australia Post.

    but I've had success with credit card chargebacks, even when paypal was showing delivery confirmation, I requested signature proof to be shown and the credit card company sided with me.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join