eBay seller scam that bypass both eBay and PayPal protection

Lshoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 05:42
Last edited 26/06/2018 - 05:46

A scam that I have fallen for and bypass both eBay and PayPal protections. About to boycott both eBay and PayPal for good due to them not taking action when there is proof it was a scam committed by seller.

Reason why both eBay and PayPal siding with the seller is that claim can be item not as described or item not recieved. They have their text book approach that that will side with the seller.

As for how the scam work, the seller send a junk/empty tracking letter to YOUR local business/ public service (eg library) with tracking code. The seller then can report to eBay/PayPal with the tracking information showing item is delivered. Online tracking only display suburb it was sent to and that it was delivered (no signature is needed if item is below a threshold).

With the tracking code, both eBay/PayPal will side with seller if you open an item not recieved case. On the other hand because you don’t recieved anything there is nothing to send back for item not as described. They will close the item not as described case if they are aware that you didn’t recieved anything, resulting in you losing that option.

I have an official email from the Australia post showing that the item, both in dimension and weight couldn’t be the item I have order. I though, lucky I have evidences of this scam committed by the seller… Guess what, both eBay and PayPal ignore this and side with the seller due to tracking number was provided by seller showing something was sent to the buyer suburb.

PayPal claim they are not like eBay and will look into evidences you have, but I find it false. They don’t even request anything from me and just side with the seller due to them having a tracking number showing something was delivered in my suburb. Both PayPal and eBay is aware that I have an offical letter from Australia Post proving the seller couldn’t physically sent the item I have paid for.

Hope more people are now aware of this scam and that both PayPal and eBay will not protect you.

General Discussion

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Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 26/06/2018 - 06:00
    +33

    Always pay by credit card via PayPal, then you can still do a charge-back with your bank.

    eBay and PayPal will probably suspend your accounts in return.
    Better than getting ripped off by the seller, eBay and PayPal at the same time.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 06:17
      +1

      Yes, I might be doing that. Just a bit sickening that this method of scam been existing for years, and even with proof of it, both just side with scammer.

      • EnALup on 26/06/2018 - 17:01
        +5

        Did seller had high ebay ratings?
        I always tend to purchase from sellers with high ratings.

        • Marty131 on 26/06/2018 - 17:44

          A hacker can still target an existing account with high ratings…

        • EnALup on 26/06/2018 - 18:34

          @Marty131: Yes, but difficult.

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 18:45

          Miss answering this question… yes the seller has high rating.

          I know seller can get bad feedback remove. My guess is if eBay award them the win, then the buyer can get eBay to remove bad transaction feedback.

        • tinx on 26/06/2018 - 19:46
          +5

          @shoppingbag: one of my ebay account get negative feedback and they won’t remove it.

          So the buyer want to buy something and i told him to use coffefe code (forgot exact code), but he paid after the code expired. He wasn’t happy so i figured i just cancel the sale and refund his payment. No harm done right? Guess not!

          Learn my lesson: don’t help buyer with discount code lol.

          Just want to share, because its not that easy to remove negative feedback.
          Or maybe they have different policy for those seller with very high rating.

        • resisting the urge on 27/06/2018 - 08:49

          @Gaggy: Not really, more likely the attacker only has a short window of time to use it. If it is a vendor doing an exit strategy or a senile seller on their way to losing their account, their customers will likely suffer the pain without any recompense.

        • Gauntlet on 27/06/2018 - 22:28

          Don't go by ratings. Sellers with negative feedback left often bribe buyers in to leaving a positive review. And yes, people do it.

    • Zachary on 26/06/2018 - 08:26
      +1

      …supposedly debit cards also work as well….but I haven't yet tried to charge-back with a debit card so no idea of its effectiveness….

      • Zachary on 26/06/2018 - 18:25
        +1

        I'm guessing the two who negged me had no success with charge backs on a debit card? Or just generally don't agree using debit cards for this or what reason? I need feedback or else I won't know…..and will keep pareting wrong answers…..

        • ChickenTalon on 26/06/2018 - 18:42
          +1

          Debit cards are generally covered by similar charge back protections.

          So long as you’re actually using the card to process the payment, not the linked bank account.

        • Zachary on 26/06/2018 - 19:07

          @ChickenTalon: Yep I have that checked so I'm good to go, OP should know this if this fact is correct.

    • 87percent on 26/06/2018 - 09:11
      +9

      Just a heads up on doing this (in my experience)

      Bought tickets to Disneyland using a 3rd party website while I was in the US through a friends work. Tickets didn't arrive for over 48 hours, and when I did receive them it was too late (despite numerous calls to the website who would only assist after the 48 hours). Lodged a claim with PayPal, denied saying I received the tickets. Lodged a Credit Card chargeback, which was approved BUT then PayPal were saying that i did a double chargeback (ie; refund on PayPal and the CC) and were claiming I owe them the full amount.

      Took over 3 months to get sorted with their useless customer service reps

      • xyned on 26/06/2018 - 22:10
        +2

        I agree. Same thing happened to me when I tried to order study material online. They provided me outdated materials. When I claimed this with seller, they did not respond. When I opened a case with paypal, they suspended my access. I opened a case with paypal calling this extortionate. It fell on deaf ears.

    • galaxiers on 27/06/2018 - 05:14

      I received a fake material from a seller in US, both eBay and PayPal played games for a month; eBay said talked to PayPal, and PayPal said talk to eBay.
      Read a comment on OZB re charge back. Luckily I'd paid via credit card, submitted my case to the card provider, no hassle-> received the entire money.
      Now, I try to avoid eBay, but when i use only pay via card.

      • Richardc on 27/06/2018 - 16:28

        Maybe that's why eBay and PayPal separate themselves.

  • whooah1979 on 26/06/2018 - 06:02
    +3

    an offical letter from Australia Post proving

    These are easy to come by. A few minutes with photoshop and one may manufacture a letter with an authentic letterhead, logo and text saying whatever one wants.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 06:06
      +1

      Yes, but Australia post still have that information on their case I open about the package which I have supply to both eBay and PayPal.

      Edit:as in the case number I open up on the tracking number of my supposed parcel.

      • whooah1979 on 26/06/2018 - 07:01
        +1

        Australia post still have that information on their case

        Auspost if following federal legislation can’t disclose this information to other entities unless they’re law enforcement, by order of a court or entities except from the legislation.

        You’ve get Auspost to contact PayPal or Ebay directly.

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 13:09
          +2

          The information that they can disclosed to me about the size and weight limit is not private personal information, it’s something that can be determined base on tracking number used. I was told base on the tracking number without investigations they can confirm size and weight limit multiple time from different people at Australia Post.

          No breach of privacy was needed to get that information. Both ebay/PayPal/seller/I all have the tracking number base on transactions process.

  • [Deactivated] on 26/06/2018 - 06:11

    tracking letter to YOUR local business/ public service

    Address it to your local police station then. Pretty sure scammer will be scared off.

    What was the approximate value of the item?

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 06:15
      +1

      I mean the seller send the junk/empty letter to those location. Since when people see junk mail, they tend to just throw it in the bin. Just those address are readily available to find.

      Edit, as for value $200+
      Edit 2: YOUR, as in location wise and not about ownership

      • SnoozeAndLose on 26/06/2018 - 06:26

        So their ebay account has good review? If he just doing this one off and stay away from ebay?

        Did they have at least 1000 review?

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 06:32

          Ebay account was a power seller and was in the list of eBay 20% off with what I though was good %,.. now that account doesn’t exist on eBay any more I think. Can’t find them and my purchase history record of it disappeared..

          Could be a exiting strategy by them

          Edit: was wrong. Still in my history, and is hasn’t stop selling. Since I couldn’t see then anymore I though they were power sell. But they were top rated seller with 98% positive with well over the 1000 review.. now that I can check them again

        • Pikaloo on 26/06/2018 - 06:52
          +5

          @shoppingbag: If you create a police report and you have a copy of it, PayPal and eBay will side with you. It isn't a loophole for the seller, this is a well documented thing.

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 06:59
          +1

          @Pikaloo:

          Ok, guess I will do that then. Thank.

          It is still a loophole since most won’t be able to get the letter from Australia Post like I did as proof. It will be only their word vs the rest since there is no evidence that it wasn’t delivered and just a missing parcel that was mark as delivered.

        • SnoozeAndLose on 26/06/2018 - 07:02

          @shoppingbag:

          My question would be why a power seller would do this to ruin his own shop?

          I am not saying he did not do it but it seem this can be one off then gone.

          Did they have similar feedback? Did you leave feedback?

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 07:04
          +1

          @LoveBargain15:

          My feedback doesn’t appear. It possible for seller to get feedback remove by eBay.

          Some of their past negative feedback show issue with the seller, but at 98+ positive feedback I though I was safe.

        • xuqi on 27/06/2018 - 00:20

          @shoppingbag:

          Australia post letter doesn't have any value. Visit you local police station and explain the transaction. They'll let you know what you what is required to create a report.

          Provide that to Ebay & Paypal.

  • MT2010 on 26/06/2018 - 06:40
    +2

    Could you please name the seller as they are no longer in existence? Maybe a few more clues?

    What item is that as if a power seller can do that before closing shop, then it could be any ebay seller. Thanks.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 06:44
      +2

      Sorry, I was wrong about them not there, just they was past my 60 days default view period. Still selling and I am not sure about ozbargain about naming still operational business policy.

      Edit: If I can confirm that I can name them I will be more then happy to

      • Tech5 on 26/06/2018 - 11:31
        +9

        There is nothing wrong with naming a business on ozbargain. Plenty of people do it

  • vinni9284 on 26/06/2018 - 07:05
    +3

    I purchased an item from a private seller off eBay for $2400. (item weighed 40KGs)
    The seller contacted me that the item was damaged and will not send. He said to claim via eBay/Paypal as obviously he spent the money.
    I went through eBay and PayPal to claim back refund and luckily i received the full refund after 6 weeks.

    I was thinking to myself, what happened if he sent 40KGs of bricks (or other items equivalent of weight with similar cube) in a box with tracking code/signature on delivery?
    Will I win a claim? … hmmm

    Lesson learnt.
    From now on, I will take advantage of their 20% off on reputable sellers like Good Guys and the like … over $500 spend.
    Never private again. Especially with $2400.
    Many do the right thing however all you need is a dodgy seller that leaves you out of pocket.

    Cheers

    • [Deactivated] on 26/06/2018 - 09:25
      -5

      Reputable Good Guys? The imbeciles in-store could not even locate a item paid for by my own PayPal account but placed under my housemates name. Well stupidity eventually worked in my favour as they never bothered to respond to a PayPal dispute so I ended up with a full refund and the goods.

      • vinni9284 on 26/06/2018 - 09:29
        +7

        I ended up with a full refund and the goods.

        I understand where you are coming from. My rationale regarding reputable stores is that there is a very good chance that you can recover lost monies or you most likely receive the goods purchased.

        Obviously, in your case they stuffed up. I purchased an OLED TV via the boxing day sale and the process was seamless.

        From a private seller, it can be more difficult.

        Cheers

        • [Deactivated] on 28/06/2018 - 12:10
          +1

          Funny how so there are so many ***holes on here that will neg any comment. I am not expecting too much for a big corporation to have systems that allow them to match PayPal transactions with eBay transactions from a store level instead of being told they cannot find the item and playing ping pong between the pickup store and the online store.

          As for The Good Guys they are okay when it comes to posting items out but they are totally useless when collecting in store. The store staff have the attitude that the online eBay store is separate and not their problem although they all trade under the same name.

        • vinni9284 on 28/06/2018 - 12:54

          @HARSHREALITY:

          Funny how so there are so many ***holes on here that will neg any comment

          Totally agree. It seems like a click frenzy. However I would say it would be a minority, negative Nancies, goodie two shoes and possibly some newbies. Btw, I didn't neg you :-)

          Yes, you neg Nancies are welcome to neg me too!

          I am not expecting too much for a big corporation to have systems that allow them to match PayPal transactions with eBay transactions from a store level instead of being told they cannot find the item and playing ping pong between the pickup store and the online store.

          Agree on this too!

          You would expect an organisation to this magnitude to have systems in place (such as ERP, SOP's.. etc) to ensure that the correct items can be located and sold so the customer don't waste their time and logistics.

          Cheers

      • stevenkw2t on 26/06/2018 - 15:29
        +7

        So, theft.

        • [Deactivated] on 28/06/2018 - 12:26
          +1

          Laughs. No!

          The only way businesses learn from their mistakes is when it costs them. In my situation they lost several hundred (not a big amount for them) by not responding to a PayPal dispute for which they had over a week to respond.

          If management had any common sense after this case they would have implemented better procedures to respond to customer PayPal disputes in future which is a win to any customer dealing with them. If not, good luck to anyone benefiting from their incompetence.

          I do not work for TGG so it is not my job to do theirs. If they are incapable of running a online store then they should shut it down.

        • vinni9284 on 28/06/2018 - 13:02
          +1

          @HARSHREALITY:

          it is not my job to do theirs

          That's what business want you to do. Their job so they can cut costs and save more money for their Shareholders.

          …. you can see where others are following suit … self assisted check-outs in supermarkets etc ..LOL

          Where many people are queued up like cows in a race ready to serve themselves rather than give jobs to the locals ..

          Then cry when there are no jobs left.

          Anyway, another topic.

          Negs are welcome!

          Cheers

  • shockme79 on 26/06/2018 - 07:44
    +2

    Thankfully I've only had to deal with ebay/paypal once in a dispute and that was enough!

    Text book responses, everything is either black or white with no ability to see any grey.

    Basically I sold a couple of items, lets say total weight is 500g… The buyer said items not as described so we went through the return process… However they only sent me 1 of the items back - and got a full refund because they provided tracking… They could have just sent me a box full of sawdust and ebay would have sided with them all because they provided a tracking number of returning to me.

    I tried disputing, I tried explaining that both items weigh 500g and the returned package only weighs 250g and even sent a photo of the scales… But nope, as I said black and white only.

  • CyberMurning on 26/06/2018 - 07:55
    +5

    But so many stories on internet are confirming eBay sides with buyers…. Now I'm confused

    • djsweet on 26/06/2018 - 08:33
      +7

      Anecdotally it seems that eBay is more likely to side with whoever generates them more money. In many cases it is the buyer, but in the case of a power seller, it is likely to be the seller.

    • [Deactivated] on 26/06/2018 - 09:31
      +2

      eBay is a lot like the Current vs the Original McDonalds.

      McDonalds once had a small menu with fast service now they have a large menu with slow service. Original eBay used to allow 1 cent listings, optional PayPal, allowed negative feedback for dodgy buyers and no big retailers now it is full of big retailers with comical percentage off sales (which they all mark up prior to it going online) and other nonsense such as eBay Plus and a monthly 5% off code.

      • [Deactivated] on 26/06/2018 - 11:11
        +3

        mcdonalds current problem has nothing to do with having an expanded menu, its because they now try and cook everything fresh, instead of having all the popular burgers ready to grab and hand to you straight away.

        • Gina Rinehart on 26/06/2018 - 18:58
          +1

          I, for one, enjoy not having soggy lettuce on my burger… probably the best thing they ever did was make burgers fresh.

          Can probably understand pre-cooking a burger with no salad (e.g. quarter pounder) but the others, no way. I'd rather wait an extra minute for a "fresh" burger (remember, it is basically microwaved crap anyway) than one which is stale / old.

          Also, if you're in drive through, there's hardly any wait anyway, they manage to make the burgers fresh enough..

        • macrocephalic on 27/06/2018 - 09:38
          +5

          @55: It's not microwaved. When I worked in McD's they didn't even have a microwave in the store.

          They don't cook anything fresher, they just assemble it fresh now. This might mean that you don't get soggy lettuce, on burgers that have it, but everything else is just taking longer for no reason.

        • [Deactivated] on 28/06/2018 - 12:31

          @55:

          That is because they prioritize Drive through at the expense of customers in the store.

        • [Deactivated] on 28/06/2018 - 12:32

          @macrocephalic:

          Red Rooster do have microwaves however.

  • Melb69 on 26/06/2018 - 08:41
    +2

    It would be good if you can name the Ebay seller. Can't see why you couldn't (moderator input required). Don't believe this OP is making false claims.

    It would help buyers beware of purchasing from this seller. We buy things off Ebay all the time, and so far no major issues. I agree that Ebay take a black and white approach to claims. They don't really have the set up to actually investigate real fraudulent activity like the ones discussed from the looks of it. Its hard for them I suppose to know what is true as they aren't at the sellers or buyers end.

    What is a worry is that the seller is a volume seller. Feedback 98%. Borderline for me. I look for 100% from smaller sellers and good feedback. No negatives. I've purchased from sellers with 98%, so can see that it could happen to me as well. Just seems wrong that they could get away with it and is still selling. The thing is there's nothing stopping them from setting up numerous accounts which is what they do once the feedback drops. They create a new account to start again with better rating.

    I like the idea of using credit card through paypay as an extra line of defence.

  • JimmyF on 26/06/2018 - 08:54
    +5

    On the other hand because you don’t recieved anything there is nothing to send back for item not as described

    Just like they did to you, its all you need to do to them. Send SOMETHING back with tracking to them.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:26

      I could, but morally it’s wrong. If I continually do so, eventually I will find myself in another situation where I wrong someone else due to it being all in my head.

      • JimmyF on 26/06/2018 - 12:45
        +1

        Sorry? Its morally wrong, to return a empty letter back to a scammer who scammed you by sending you an entry one to start with, so you can get your money back.

        WOW, just wow!

        Ok then, enjoy your loss. /thread closed as paypal/ebay agree with the seller, they shipped you an item.

        • shoppingbag on 27/06/2018 - 03:28
          +2

          Sorry if I wasn’t being clear. I wouldn’t be able to get to the stage of sending them an empty box/envolope back since both eBay and PayPal will not accept that option and would closed the claim as miss-filed.

          Only way to reach to that stage is to lied to eBay/PayPal on receiving item from the seller. I tried to do so (without lying and case was closed due to it being miss filed). Edit: That is where the moral aspect come in play, lied to get things fix as I think it should be, just to correct the injustice of not receiving my parcel.

          Hope that clears where the morality aspect occur in the process.

      • Scrooge McDuck on 27/06/2018 - 13:26
        +1

        I could, but morally it’s wrong.

        I admire your morals, but what is wrong is subjective.

        I would view this as complying with a pedantic system, which isn't wrong.

      • Pratty on 28/06/2018 - 08:07

        Not revealing the seller makes no sense and makes your story sound completely illegitimate.

    • Marty131 on 26/06/2018 - 17:49
      +2

      Brilliant @JimmyF!!

      • JimmyF on 26/06/2018 - 20:01

        Other than the typo….. ¯＼(º_o)/¯

        entry=empty

  • skinner on 26/06/2018 - 09:03

    For paypal buyer protection the seller also needs to provide proof they sent it to the address you provided. The auspost tracking only says the delivery suburb but the label they used and provided paypal would need to have had your full address. Auspost would have that info as well assuming it wasn't a handwritten post bag. If it's a big seller it's more likely to either be a mixup (wrong item sent) or an auspost issue (damaged in transit, delivered to wrong address etc).

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:15

      I wish you were right.

      I couldn’t get eBay to admitting it.

      PayPal eventually admit that they only used the tracking number and online tracking that show the suburb it was sent.

      Australia post say they can’t confirm if the tracking number is for a item that is addressed to me or not.
      And I do not believed it’s a mix up by sell… once I read through their feedback and their communication with me, they have no problem lying and making false claim.

  • 2jzzzz on 26/06/2018 - 09:08

    So should we always say the item's not as described, then send back a tracked letter with nothing?

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:08
      +6

      I personally don’t want to do that since it a race to the bottom. Don’t want to live in a world we’re everyone think that if they are wrong in any way it’s ok to do the wrong thing back.

      • kingmw on 27/06/2018 - 05:51
        +3

        It's not wrong since you are returning exactly what they sent you…

      • wtfnodeal on 27/06/2018 - 08:07
        +2

        The seller sent you air so you return air. Nothing wrong?

        • Scrooge McDuck on 27/06/2018 - 12:50
          +2

          But you'll have to be careful when handling the air, to ensure that you send back the same, not different, air.

        • wtfnodeal on 27/06/2018 - 14:35
          +1

          @Scrooge McDuck: once the seller opens it the air in the box will blend nicely with the air wherever it packed and sent to OP so it should be fine.

          • 4wd on 08/01/2019 - 15:44

            @wtfnodeal: Unless it was drop-shipped air in which case the air where it was sent from won't match the air it was returned to - this could result in a paradox.

  • bb_hunter on 26/06/2018 - 09:52
    +1

    I'm confused, how can the seller send to a random address in your suburb? Auspost should able to tell it is not your address.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:06

      PayPal and eBay used the online tracking. I have confirm that PayPal does that after repeated wanting confirmation that it was to MY addresss and not to the suburb.

      Australia post have confirm that the parcel mightn’t have been address to me in one of our offical communication.

      Finding a address that doesn’t have time to give a second though of throwing away junk mail is just too easy.

  • tomclancy on 26/06/2018 - 09:57
    +21

    OP, lodge a dispute against PayPal with the Financial Industry Ombudsman. PayPal will credit your account with your $200+ dollars in a couple of days as "a gesture of goodwill" (as reported on OzBargain many times). Don't waste anymore time talking directly to PayPal or eBay. Best of luck.

    • Melb69 on 26/06/2018 - 10:35
      +2

      This maybe fine way to get resolution for buyer. There is still the underlying issue that this seller is not actually sending the item as paid by buyers. Ebay needs to shut this down.

      • tomclancy on 26/06/2018 - 10:50
        +5

        The buyer getting their money back via FIO effectively pushes the problem onto PayPal's in that they are giving money to the scammers. If everyone claimed through the FIO and it became a big enough issue for PayPal then I'm sure they would do something about the scams in the first place. Until then it will keep happening.

        On a different note, I feel that the OP did the wrong thing by disputing with eBay/PayPal originally as "item not received" because this is clearly not the case, an item WAS received. It reads as though after that dispute was closed then the OP opened "not as described" which should have been their first dispute and then they might have won their case initially. OP claimed incorrectly which contributed to the problem.

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:00

          I didn’t dispute it originally “not as described”, I Open as item not recieved. Had escalated it and seller won even with the proof to eBay.

          Edit: as for proof I only have the item not as described…

        • Melb69 on 26/06/2018 - 11:27
          +1

          @shoppingbag:
          That is what @tomclancy is saying. You probably should have made the claim through Ebay as item "not as described" as apposed to "item not received".

          Sure the actual item OP wanted wasn't received, but they did send the something with tracking as far as Ebay is concerned. You got nothing in package or letter which is the item not as described. Yeah maybe that is the way to handle this issue. I don't know how Ebay handle item not as described. Assume they just say return item to sender.

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:34

          @Dedbny:

          Ops sorry, my bad. Was reading and replying to other comments.. and skim read it incorrectly.

          For ebay, I did the item not recieved,. I mention how that turn out.

          For PayPal, I did explain the situation and put it as item not as describedfirst, but they close the case since I don’t have anything to send back as a wrongful classification.

        • resisting the urge on 27/06/2018 - 09:04

          @shoppingbag:

          Maybe ask eBay to change your case to "item not as described" if they are unable to solve the case of a missing item in a 'delivered package'.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:21

      Thanks for that information.

      Reason why I initially want to do it through eBay/PayPal is so the seller get caught out for doing the wrong deed and this can potentially prevent it happening to others. Else I would have just gone to my cc company.

      • tomclancy on 26/06/2018 - 11:41
        +3

        Yeah I understand completely. Trying to stop scammers at the source is an honourable deed. Though the best thing you can do is look after No.1, which since you paid via credit card through PayPal you have given yourself options. Now that eBay/PayPal have failed you it is time to use your backup protection (FIO) and if for some strange reason that doesn't work then a credit card chargeback (check your card issuer's T&Cs for timeframe for this first).

        Best of luck OP

  • JCrown9 on 26/06/2018 - 10:55

    If you opened the case "item not as described" but had nothing to send back.
    Why dont you just send back an empty box as well with tracking, as that is what you received. then you have return details and tracking saying the seller got the item back.

    The whole thing still seems odd. A seller may get away with it every now and again, but in the long run it just makes no sense for sellers (large sellers) to do this.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:19
      +4

      Same with my comment to 2jzzzz, it about moral principles and not wanting to live in a society where it’s ok to do something wrong because you know/believed they have wrong you. If I do so, eventually I will wrong someone who made a simple mistake or it could have been all in my head.

      • JCrown9 on 27/06/2018 - 20:34

        All your doing is shipping back what they shipped to you “nothing”

        So how is that wrong :)

        Otherwise looks like your at a loss like everyone else is saying.

        Gl

    • resisting the urge on 27/06/2018 - 09:05
      +5

      Two wrongs don't make a right.

      Committing fraud because fraud may have been committed against is just as illegal as committing fraud outright.

  • Melb69 on 26/06/2018 - 11:39

    @shoppingbag Did the seller deny sending the item in your correspondence with them. I had one instance now that I can recall from an online store that the item was delivered through courier and the there was nothing in the box. The satchel didn't seem to be opened, however the package inside which had its plastic still on it, but slit so was opened. I got in contact with seller and they obviously couldn't believe what I was saying, but I told them that there was nothing in package. They believed it was sent. In the end I had the feeling that whoever sent it didn't actually send it with the item as it may have been taken out for whatever reason at their end and didn't check to see if the item was in it. Like it might have been last one and on display and taken out for whatever reason, and then not put back in. Anyway the seller did in end send me another one after weeks as the one they supposedly sent me was the last one. they gave me the option to purchase a more expensive one or wait for original order.

    What I am saying is did your seller actually acknowledge that they sent you your item and did you correspond accordingly stating there was not item in the package recieved other than an letter. Did they refuse to believe the item wasn't received. Did you try communitcation first with seller before going to ebay/paypal. Just seems odd if they sent you a letter. Thats where it seems like a scam not a mistake from seller.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 11:53
      +1

      Let just say I have two tracking number with the seller.

      One from a real courier service with tracking number that doesn’t work online tracking. The seller was claiming they have sent it and etc… but reading from their review (well after I purchase from them), it was all a lie.

      Later they used Australia Post tracking number to replace the fake courier tracking they have given me to confirm with PayPal and eBay item was send and delivered.

      Their moral view allow them to lie and pass the blame to the courier company, slandering another.

      • Melb69 on 26/06/2018 - 11:58

        So the seller confirmed back to you that they did send the item you purchased through that Aus Post tracking? Even though you then advised to them that they only sent a letter. Did they deny that they only sent you a letter?

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 12:08

          They sent me tracking number for non-existing tracking.

          After wanting for for weeks, with tracking number not working with couriers, I contacted them just to be lied to (didn’t know it was a lie at that time).

          Request a refund at future date. From there on no further communications with seller. Edit: at this stage I started to read their feedback and read through various possible fraud the seller could be committing.

          only through eBay after I claim item not recieved did I saw their Australia Post tracking number and eBay award them the win.

          At that stage I started Australia Post internal case for the tracking code I saw on eBay. Once Australia Post confirm that it couldn’t be the item I paid for I reopen the case with eBay for eBay to just ignore everything and award the win to seller again.

          Edit: I won’t trust anything they say after I discover they were repeatedly defaming a real carrier company. through whatever the say/pass to both eBay/PayPal which I am not privileged to be told that I can confirm they were actively performing the fraud. Had to extrapolated even the Australia Post tracking number they used through eBay.

      • jackofspade on 26/06/2018 - 12:34

        Does the auspost tracking showed that it was sent after you lodged the dispute?

        • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 12:58

          Didn’t even knew anything about the Australia post tracking until after the case was initially close by eBay since I heard nothing from seller.

          Base on tracking number I obtain after the dispute, Seller sent that tracking item before I request eBay to step it.

          The tracking number doesn’t show scan event when they lodged it to Australia Post, but only at the last distribution center before it was delivered and when it was delivered. That shouldn’t be the case since parcel was large and had to been done over the counter where they would have scan it in a normal course of event.

  • AncientWisdom on 26/06/2018 - 13:06

    I had an item ordered from Ali Express, with tracking and all. Tracking showed item was delivered to my postcode but there was nothing in the mailbox. AusPost wasn't sure what happened but conceded it may have been delivered to the wrong address. Long story short Ali Express rejected my claim as I had no proof I didn't receive the package.
    In this case the seller did the right thing anyway and sent me a replacement but it did raise a few questions about how protected am I online from bad sellers and mistakes made by couriers.

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 13:16

      I am glad it work out for you. you had a good experience with that Ali express seller going beyond their responsibilities. It seller like them that make us see hope and integrity still exist in online shopping.

  • Turd on 26/06/2018 - 15:28

    I had similar issue, bought item on ebay. it was "delivered" but I never got it, tried to get money back ebay said no, paypal said no, cc company said no, because the item was delivered and it was "close to the suburb". It was delivered to the local postal delivery location, ALEXANDRIA PDC. lol gg

    • shoppingbag on 26/06/2018 - 16:00

      I too would be in same situation as you were it not for buying something large and thus the tracking number provided prove that it’s physically unable to contain the item I paid for. At less you know how the scam operates.

      Australia Post was very helpful to identified that the seller was committing fraud. Without that it not possible for me to escalate things. It would be good if Australia Post goes one step further and maintain final destination for item with tracking code to kills this type of scam. Wishful thinking on my part since cost to implement it may be prohibitively too high.

      • Turd on 26/06/2018 - 16:02

        Wont happened, they cant even scan or deliver items without giving a card.

        Mine was $400, I just took it as a loss. :(

        • CocaKoala on 27/06/2018 - 14:31

          That sucks mate :(

  • zuuutoootuuu on 26/06/2018 - 16:43
    +1

    couldn't you get a refund in the same way? ask paypal for a return address then send a letter of the same dimensions back to them?

    edit: just noticed the same has been suggested above

  • centrelink on 26/06/2018 - 20:20
    +1

    I dunno man I find Australia post to be quite unreliable at times and there is the possibility they nicked up something on your end. As a seller on eBay, sellers like the ones you experienced should definitely been manually investigated if this has happened on numerous occasions. Also feedback means nothing and same with feedback score. I could easily manipulate it to make it look like a strong account when in fact it has dismal selling feedback so I would advise not rely on it as there is a small chance they abused the system to gain your trust

  • RiseAndRuin on 26/06/2018 - 20:29
    +2

    for high value items, always best to shoot a video when you unpack

    • Ultraman on 26/06/2018 - 21:31

      ^this, but I reckon for most packages received because even if it was $5 I'd still want the unboxing proof to show it was a scam. Pretty sad how this is now the go. And even if it's from a bricks & mortar store still do it (take a video), as once I had something large & heavy missing from the box amongst other smaller products so the large box was quite light and being suspicious I shot an unboxing video.

      • RiseAndRuin on 27/06/2018 - 00:35

        that's true, but I also came to the conclusion that I'd rather not waste e.g. half an hour of my time to get $5 back, as I value my time more than that. over time I've built a list of reliable sellers, especially on ebay, and I tend to buy from them even if I have to spend a couple more dollars, just because the potential headache would be worth a lot more to me. that way I'm usually only taking a risk on second hand items or items that are heavily discounted, when the potential reward outweighs the risk.

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