Is It Time to Buy an Electric Vehicle?

pegaxs on 08/04/2018 - 22:09
Last edited 12/04/2018 - 18:42

Was chatting to a customer about his (fropanity) heap car on the weekend and how much it was going to cost him to keep it running and its ongoing running costs. He was holding off updating his car becuse he is waiting for the price of Electric Vehicles to drop down into the regular car price bracket. I told him to not hold his breath waiting.

The conversation expanded with another employee joining in and mentioning that if they were giving EV cars away, they still wouldn’t drive one. When asked why not? it was about range, but more so the re-energising time to charge the batteries.

So, I was curious about OzB’s thoughts on electric cars. Would you consider buying one? What’s currently stopping you? Price, range, charge time, charging stations? Something else? Would you never consider buying one?

As there is a bigger and bigger push towards more eco friendly vehicles with more manufacturers taking the bigger leap into EVs, what would you like to see more development into? Maybe invested into hybrid technology rather than straight electric?

And this goes for both cars and motorcycles. Maybe cars don’t tickle your fancy, but an electric motorcycle might scratch your EV itch?

I have to say that I am interested in the technology and think that it has come so far in the last few years that I am excited for the future. Range doesn’t bother me so much, but the price, that’s a different league on its own. While they are cheaper to charge up and maintain, there is still a gaping chasm in price, especially in the motorcycle sector that I would like to dip my toe into…

Also keen to hear from current owners. You happy with your EV? Would you buy another one? What would you like to change about your current vehicle?

Edit: Pease read the poll options as "want, but…" Because the "yes" seemed to have confused at least 4 people…

Poll Options

  • 80
    Next car will be an EV
  • 482
    Yes, but price
  • 13
    Yes, but range/km
  • 5
    Yes, but charge time
  • 14
    Yes, but other
  • 33
    Would never own one
  • 15
    Already own one
Automotive Car Electric Vehicle Motorcycle

Comments

    • gezza90 on 10/04/2018 - 18:45

      Because some of us prefer stick shift manual cars.

  • Cluster on 08/04/2018 - 23:27
    +7

    I bought a diesel Hyundai i30 in 2016. I hope it's my last fossil fuel car. I generally try to keep cars for 10 years, so I'm hoping in 2026 electric cars offer:

    • 400km range. I can live with 300km, but 200 is an absolute no-go
    • Cost $30k max in 2018 dollars. $60k? Forget about it.
    • saltypete on 09/04/2018 - 00:08

      Sounds pretty reasonable to me. Creates a big incentive for retailers to create a good product for that price. These are early days yet, unless something strange happens I think that EVs will follow the development route of computers, phones, cars and offer better cheaper until they reach a certain price point.

      It's a good point about paying a fair cost of roads etc, but I am sure that governments being what they are they will find a way of making users pay, and pay, and pay………

      Would be really interested to get an EV owners perspective of what they are like to live with.

      • EightImmortals on 09/04/2018 - 07:37
        +1

        Roads are 'supposed' to be paid by the registration tax and the 50%-ish fuel tax, I'm not convinced that that is happening though. The crooks-in-chief are concocting a plan to pinch tax based off actual mileage driven but AFAIK that will be applied to all vehicles and not just EV's. I foresee normal car drivers getting slugged twice unless they drop the current 50% fuel tax when the mileage tax kicks in, but I can;t see that happening either.

        • Euphemistic on 09/04/2018 - 08:29
          +1

          Rego and the fuel tax don't pay much for roads. The bulk of it comes from council rates for local roads and general tax revenue for state roads. There aren't many federal roads.

        • EightImmortals on 09/04/2018 - 08:44

          @Euphemistic:
          Cheers, this plan looks interesting, I wonder how they will stuff it up? :)

          http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-02-17/call-to-swap-rego-fees…

          https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Depart…

          While a good idea in theory my bet is that they won't drop the rego and fuel taxes as suggested in the report and simply add on the mileage charge to what we are already paying. I say that because I remember the promises made about dropping certain taxes when the GST came in, but they were retained and are still burdening us to this day.

        • trongy on 10/04/2018 - 08:44

          @Euphemistic:
          The Federal government gives untied local road funding to State governments which is then distributed to local governments.

          The Federal government also gives direct infrastructure grants to state governments to fund large specific road projects.

          Therefore, while fuel excise doesn't directly fund our roads, it does generate about $12 billion a year. If that revenue is lost there we will be less money in the system to fund roads.

          The government is not ignorant of this. For example see this parliamentary briefing:

          Revenue from road use

    • xsacha on 12/04/2018 - 08:38

      Well the 2018 models already do 400km range so sounds like you're just waiting on the price to come down.
      Right now the EVs cost more upfront but save in long run.

  • inherentchoice on 09/04/2018 - 02:59
    +3

    Should add another poll option for "No, but maybe one day." Currently there's only one No option for the poll, and it's never.

    Battery technology still needs to improve before I would really consider it.

    I probably won't buy one out of protest against people who think they're green.

    https://youtu.be/17xh_VRrnMU

    • pegaxs on 09/04/2018 - 07:32

      Then a maybe could fall under “yes, but range or charge time” if the only thing holding you back is battery technology.

      What part of the battery technology is the turn off for you? The range, charging times, safety or just the manufacturing process?

      And yeah, not keen on the current crop of smug a-holes that drive EVs and carry on like they are the ones saving the planet. While I agree that these vehicles are not as green as people think they are, I don’t think they are quite as bad as what the video made it out to be.

      My interest lays more in motorcycles and how they go more so than being green. I like the idea of riding something with a lot more torque and having that available from the moment I turn the throttle. This appeals more to me than if it is environmentally friendly or not. The convenience of being able to recharge at home and not go near a fuel station is also appealing to me… but $20,000+ for an entry level commuter bike is just out of the question…

      • inherentchoice on 09/04/2018 - 12:35
        +3

        What part of the battery technology is the turn off for you?

        Energy density and life span. Just like smart phones battery life will degrade over time. Most Toyota Prius batteries don't really make it past 10 years. One day they might have battery technology with much longer life expectancy.

        Charging networks need to improve and I think the technology generally needs to prove itself over time. ICE has had over 100 years to prove itself.

        I'll let others be the lab rats and early adopters.

        • ninetyNineCents on 11/04/2018 - 20:35
          +1

          theres an easy answer, make overhead powerlines on major roads. All EV cars could use those, you dont need overheads on every single one way street.

      • Speckled Jim on 10/04/2018 - 20:34

        I designed an EV bike conversion in 2006. The costs were prohibitive (all new components with $500 donor bike).
        Even then, there were no guarantees of rego. The process of inspections and approval were onerous in that state at the time.

        But in theory, it's easy if you can afford to risk $10K or so, learn to weld, DIY and find some good deals. Plenty of info and dedicated forums online to assist.

        My design used six 12V Odyssey AGM batteries for 72V with an ETEK DC motor and controller. There was sufficient room for two more batteries if performance was an issue. Custom sprockets were pricey too, a surprise to me.

        Finally, the near-silence of the thing in operation and the associated safety issues. I designed a system that linked with the throttle, but it added weight and wasn't effective. I used a handheld PA from DX, it was loud enough but tests on bicycle were disappointing.
        Then I discovered that Lotus IIRC had patented a system that sounded a bit like mine. That's ultimately when I postponed further work.

        Total cost was about two months of my time and $12 for the PA thing.

  • onetwothreefour on 09/04/2018 - 06:37
    +2

    I've been driving a hybrid for about 4 years now. I love the look on people's faces when you are driving in a car park and they don't hear you coming and then they turnaround and realise you are right behind them.

    • tdw on 10/04/2018 - 05:14
      +1

      those are the types of people who'd be totally oblivious to you even if you rode a harley

      • pegaxs on 10/04/2018 - 08:10
        +2

        Can confirm, I own a Harley and even with all the noise this bike makes, I can still seem to creep up and surprise some people with it.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2018 - 09:17
          +3

          Harley people are the worst. Completely unnecessary noise pollution. I have no idea how those things pass regulations.

        • tdw on 10/04/2018 - 15:57

          brub-brub-brub-brub-brub

          i bet you get dirty looks from pedestrians ;)
          their own damn fault if they're so ignorant of their surroundings

        • pegaxs on 10/04/2018 - 18:04

          @tdw:

          Mine isn’t even a loud one. It’s a Harley, mine rattles more than it makes exhaust noise… :D I left the original mufflers on there becuse the guys I go riding with, a quiet Harley does their heads in.

        • tdw on 10/04/2018 - 19:34

          @pegaxs: you really are quite the master troll ;)

        • pegaxs on 10/04/2018 - 20:46
          +1

          @tdw:

          It’s completely stock. No aftermarket crap on it. As it came from the factory. If I could justify tearing the engine out and replacing it with batteries and an electric motor, just to further cook people’s minds, I would :D

        • tdw on 11/04/2018 - 00:46
          +1

          @pegaxs: hehehe don't you ever change!

    • npnp on 10/04/2018 - 21:59

      Same here. LOL. Many people don't know Hybrid doesn't need charging and does that automatically. Toyota has got over 2,000 patents for its third generation hybrid prius along (2010 model) and most of ordinary people don't realise the technology and research behind these cars.

  • FoxJump on 09/04/2018 - 07:14

    There's a Mitsubishi imiev on Carsales for $15000 second hand. Affordable! Not much range but ok in the city.

    • Gdsamp on 09/04/2018 - 10:47
      +2

      the imiev is a simply awful car

  • Godric on 09/04/2018 - 07:52

    fropanity no

  • Euphemistic on 09/04/2018 - 08:08
    +4

    My next car will be petrol powers and vintage, until I rip out the ICE and replace it with electrics, more of a hobby car. I do enjoy driving a manual petrol/diesel car, but surely an electric car would provide a diferent, just as good experience.

    Both our current cars are diesel. They have plenty of life left and I will seriously consider electric replacements when the time comes. As long as they meet the needs of our family. pretty sure a model X would meet 90% of our requirements and could be supplemented by an ICE car from time to time.

    • pegaxs on 09/04/2018 - 08:22
      +5

      Yeah, I am tossing up doing the same thing. I really want to build my own EV. I really want something that would give people a heart attack. Take a great iconic muscle car from the past, say, like a XY-GT Falcon or a SLR5000/A9X Torana, anything you can think of that would totally offend a huge subsection of Australian car culture, and electrify it.

      • Euphemistic on 09/04/2018 - 08:32

        I love the style of the older cars, but not the fuel inefficiency and my wife doesn't cope well with the petrol fumes in older cars as it makes her sick. Old car plus electric is a win win. I expect it will cost in the order of $30k to build a decent car with a reasonable power and range system.

        Additionally my commute is very short and an electric car would be fine, and if built right, could be plugged into the solar inverter and power the house during peak electricity time and then recharge on off peak saving electricity costs too.

  • plasmapuff on 09/04/2018 - 09:07
    +2

    Main issue with electric cars is their higher price and depreciation which is not offset by their fuel and maintenance savings over the life of the vehicle.

    Until such time when they make economic sense to most people, I just can't see them becoming mainstream.

    • sj2can on 09/04/2018 - 23:59

      Love the concept of ebikes and how they get people out and about + less car usage.

      I bought a electric scooter in Singapore after seeing how good they are. Have since used it on my weekend coffee runs and trips to shops.

      Would love an EV. For now with my small budget I'm going to get solar panels.

      As we get closer to affording maybe a Kona, we will sell both our ICE and get 1x EV.

  • bad hombre on 09/04/2018 - 09:33
    +1

    We were looking at a Tesla recently and they are quite expensive compared to the established German brands even when including the fuel savings. In addition servicing costs avg $800 per year whereas servicing on our current vehicle is $0 for 4 years. Depreciation on a Tesla is roughly the same as any other car.

    I think in the next 5 years we are going to see more and more EV and for many this may be their last petrol/diesel purchase.

    Don't forget govt rely on taxes on fuel to fund their golden parachute so whilst EVs may be great for consumers there will be hole in govt revenue that will need to be filled!

    • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 14:52

      They are cheaper than the Germans. They compete overseas price wise with the S classes, here they are priced closer to an E class.

  • affable on 09/04/2018 - 10:24
    +7

    Our family have been living with an EV and PHEV for over 3 years now meaning about 90% of our driving is using electricity. I can tell you they are definitely the future, and a joy to drive.
    We are about to be hit with a tsunami of cheaper EV over the next 2-5 years with almost every manufacturer announcing EV. However I would not waste your money on an EV. EV make most sense as TAAS (on demand driverless cars) which will wipe the market around the same 2-5 year timeframe because TAAS will have the convenience of car ownership with a cost less than public transport.
    Car ownership is one of the dumbest ideas we've come up with, considering the money pit cars are, the number of accidents & deaths, congestion combined with the few hours a week we actually use them.

    • bad hombre on 09/04/2018 - 10:30

      I don't know if driverless cars will be perfected within that time frame? Agree, car ownership is dumb but convenient and with on demand personal transport the govt will have to recoup lost revenue from fuel taxes and registration fees from somewhere so not sure how cheap it will be. However, once depreciation is factored I think it's safe to say it will benefit a large portion of the population.

      Bring on the future! Unless the autonomous cars are planning to turn on their human masters and crash us all into the sea … :(

      • affable on 09/04/2018 - 11:08
        +1

        Waemo (Google) were sitting at 5000 miles between human intervention about a year ago, and they would have been pushing their cars into the toughest situations so they are extremely close.
        Jaguar has just announced an agreement to supply 20,000 EV to Waemo so they are in the commercialisation phase right now https://youtu.be/K_dWJYgoOc8

  • daleyboy79 on 09/04/2018 - 10:33
    +1

    Wheres the "Not yet" option???

    • Matslurpee on 09/04/2018 - 13:55
      +1

      That's what I wanted to select.

      For a big country like ours, with expensive electricity like ours, EV are not quite there yet.

      When we can get range of 700-1000Km off a single charge, with Charging times from 0-85% in under 1Hr at prices starting from $30K, that is when I will believe the age of electric cars has truly arrive.

  • freakatronic on 09/04/2018 - 10:45
    -4

    A Tesla Model S weighs 2250kg. It's nothing like a driver's car. Yes it has a good 0-100 time, but that is really the only impressive thing about a Tesla dynamically. Try to corner in a two tonne car, go on. Yes, there's the low range as compared to a $10k secondhand lancer (mine does 600km/tank). There's the high cost compared to an actual luxury car. Tesla's are priced like a BMW and specced like a (nice) Camry. Theyre not super reliable and it's not better for the air quality to run them. But at the moment there's nothing superior about a Tesla except for hype.
    The hype comes from government types who want to make it look like they're moving the needle on "something important". They're not; they're just making it harder for the working class to eke an existence out in this country.

    • Matslurpee on 09/04/2018 - 13:57
      +2

      Low center of gravity, Google it.

    • idonotknowwhy on 09/04/2018 - 14:53
      -1

      You've angered the Musketeers

      • freakatronic on 09/04/2018 - 19:56
        +1

        And they've come to defend the honour of their sacred unicorn machine.

    • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 14:54
      -1

      None of this is true. You’ve never driven one and you’re just jumping on the hater band wagon.

      • freakatronic on 09/04/2018 - 20:03
        +1

        Lol hater bandwagon? I don't hate Tesla. All i did was list reasons that I won't get one, and people can't handle my opinion differing to theirs.

        • [Deactivated] on 09/04/2018 - 20:39

          Yeah, but your reasons are bullshit. The car is impressive dynamically, which shows you’ve never driven one. They are cheaper than equivalent European cars. They start at $150k and go to about $300k. In other markets they are price matched with an S class but in Australia because Merc rips customers off, they are the price of an E class. In terms of interior quality you really are jumping on the bandwagon. There is this notion that they have a low quality interior by people who have never sat in one. This is simply not true, the interior has identical wood to a Mercedes E class, they use(d) Napa leather which is only available on a Designo package from Mercedes, they have Alcantara headliners which are also only optional in an E class. They share Mercedes switchgear and have leather lined dash/doors/arm rest. They have a standard glass roof, and the build quality is not bad, like every keyboard warrior will tell you. They are nothing like a Camry, the materials are much higher quality. The interior is inferior to an S class, but it easily matches a Designo E class and surpasses a none Designo E (my mother has a none Designo E, the model S interior is better). The seats are comfortable, but the infotainment system is unmatched. The 17 inch touch screen is miles ahead of any system in any car. And you’re forgetting autopilot which is amazing. So yes, you’ve never even sat in a Tesla and rather than checking it out for yourself, you’ve jumped on the internet hate bandwagon. I have no idea what your working class diatribe at the end of your post is about, but this has nothing to do with the government.

        • freakatronic on 09/04/2018 - 20:46

          lol ok

        • ninetyNineCents on 11/04/2018 - 20:40

          @Burnertoasty:

          B: The 17 inch touch screen is miles ahead of any system in any car. And you’re forgetting autopilot which is amazing.

          99: yeh its amazing how nobody has sued it for false advertising, when its not an actual AUTO PILOT.

          B: They are cheaper than equivalent European cars. They start at $150k and go to about $300k.

          99: a $150k bmw or mercedes is a better car with more features than a tesla. Can you even get heated seats in a tesla ?

          Ive seen plenty of reviews that you can hear the outside noise inside a tesla, bad aerodynamics, things rattling etc… You dont even get those problems in a 30k toyota, and yet you do in teslas which cost $150k

    • OzzyOzbourne on 09/04/2018 - 15:36

      Seriously how many corners can you be going around safely (ie you can see far enough to stop in an emergency, avoid obstacles in the road etc) at a speed the Tesla could not handle?

      Maybe you should keep race track driving for the race track.

  • LFO on 09/04/2018 - 11:22

    Picked "Yes, but other"

    Size and style of the EV is my "other".

    They are wildly unnecessarily large for my needs (like the Tesla)
    and/or
    They are ridiculously designed to yell-out: … look at me, I'm special …

    Will probably get the VW eGolf if available … but VW Australia doesn't want to sell them here. OK in the UK (same vehicle then!), not in Oz …

    PS: Nissan Leaf? Tried that one in 2012. Sort of OK then, but Nissan didn't want to sell them so they put any and all obstacles they could fabricate to difficult the deal. From a $57K price tag (it was USD$37K in the USA) to requesting a certificate of installation for a 15Amps power point in MY OWN garage. And don't forget the 2 (two) SIMs, built in, to travel with you …

    • Matslurpee on 09/04/2018 - 13:59
      +1

      The Chevy bolt looks pretty good, shame they don't sell them here.

      • pegaxs on 09/04/2018 - 21:36

        They tried, as the Holden Volt, but ouch, that price tag… it was a marketing disaster…

        • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2018 - 09:23
          -1

          Hybrid is not EV

  • sien on 09/04/2018 - 11:35
    +3

    I seriously hope to never buy another car at all. My current car has just under 100K on it and I plan to have it for another 5 years.

    Waymo will have geo-constrained but completely publicly available self-driving car trials going this year in Phoenix.

    I drive to work every day. My car is unused 95% of the time.

    I don't care what the power supply is. Let Waymo and company use whatever is most efficient.

    • BongoBong on 11/04/2018 - 12:08

      Would love to go that way as well, but I wonder how expensive these services will be to start. We can technically do basically the same thing with Uber right now but the cost doesn't make sense. The cost would have to be pretty significantly cheaper than Uber is right now for it to make sense to replace my car for this type of service.

  • Beanvee on 09/04/2018 - 11:50
    +1

    I only ever drive for errands, so electric would be fine if it was affordable.
    But I ride a motorbike for fun, and I can't imagine giving up the feel and sound of a combustion engine of my bike

  • Krankite on 09/04/2018 - 11:51

    Renault is bringing the Zoe for ABN buyers this year and Hyundai has an affordable electric coming as well as a plugin hybrid. Mitsubishi has brought back the PHEV outlander. And most companies have the ability to produce electrics of there is demand.
    Problem is these will be supply limited fit the first few years but on the plus battery tech has advanced to the point that when these appear as end of 3yr lease vehicles the will be a good buy at 20k. My prediction any way. Currently holding on to a 2004 corrola as our second car to swap fit an electric eventually.

  • elgrande on 09/04/2018 - 12:18
    +3

    No. Not time yet. Need to wait until atleast 4pm.

    • pegaxs on 09/04/2018 - 19:30

      it's now 7:30pm… how did your purchase go?? :D

  • JUSTINO on 09/04/2018 - 12:23

    I would buy an electric car but charge time, charging stations and km per charge

  • FoxJump on 09/04/2018 - 12:44

    In 10 years time I may look for a second hand 5 yeard old electric car to replace me then 14year old Prius C

  • whooah1979 on 09/04/2018 - 12:54

    Ev are small and unsuitable for anything other than city driving. They’re economical to operate in Australia compared to other vehicle types, but pollutes the environment in ways that are difficult to quantify.

    • idonotknowwhy on 09/04/2018 - 14:15
      +2

      Yeah, too much smug pollution

      • whooah1979 on 09/04/2018 - 14:34
        +1

        Cobalt, lithium and nickel extraction is as toxic as it gets.

        • idonotknowwhy on 09/04/2018 - 14:42
          +1

          Was a southpark reference: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gXZeq9eXAys

        • whooah1979 on 09/04/2018 - 14:46
          +1

          @idonotknowwhy:

          Ohh. We don’t watch cartoons.

        • Stimps on 10/04/2018 - 11:59
          +1

          So more or less toxic than the 4.9 million barrels of oil dumped in the ocean by Deepwater Horizon?

        • ninetyNineCents on 11/04/2018 - 20:46

          @Stimps:

          WHile DWH was a disaster, all things compared, the environment recovers much faster from a petrol spill, heavy metals and similar like cobalt, lithium and nickel stay in the environment forever.

          Please show me a closed nickel mine that in the span of 30 years is not a dead zone . Closed Nickel mines for example remain dead for a long time, none of them have ever recovered, they are as dead today as they were the day they closed.

          For all the evils of petrol, its nowhere near as deadly to the environment as the components of batteries.

      • pegaxs on 09/04/2018 - 19:33
        +1

        Yeah, too much smug pollution

        HAHAHAHA… This is GOLD!

        Im going to say this next time I'm in a EV conversation…

        "Nah, I'm not a fan of EVs… The just produce too much smug for my liking…"

      • ninetyNineCents on 11/04/2018 - 20:43

        idonotknowwhy: Yeah, too much smug pollution

        99: did it ever occur to you the production and mining required for components for batteries is a filthy toxic business.

  • Switchblade88 on 09/04/2018 - 12:56
    +3

    You live out here in rural Aus, any mention of EVs gets you a laugh in the face.

    Nearest (single) supercharger is about 100km away in the nearest city, where it's still 15mins between there and the CBD. It's 600km in either direction to Syd or Melb. You simply can't afford to have less than 600km of range; it will quite quickly come to a life-or-death situation and you must be able to pack to leave a bushfire or flood, and if the power's off for the past two days then your EV will stay in the garage to add to the inferno. Can't say the same with two jerry cans ready in the shed for an instant 500km+ 'battery', so to speak.

    I also need a vehicle that has a towball - that trailerload of firewood won't move itself - and I'm pretty sure that's not yet an aftermarket accessory…

    • engineeringprof on 11/04/2018 - 18:49

      Cityslickers completely out of touch with rural life.
      It's pretty much impossible to own an EV currently in rural Australia and in some instances dangerous.
      Plenty of rural areas are more than 300-400km from any superchargers and some drives will take you in areas where there isn't even mains power for well over 300-400km. Also isn't much help if you're doing camping trips into national parks and intend to stay in the park for a week.

      It will work in the major cities (Sydney, Melbourne, Brisbane etc.) but at this stage there just isn't enough infrastructure to support it in rural areas. And the cost/benefit ratio of creating such infrastructure is just not there for such a small population. E.g. what would be the point of building a supercharger way out in a national park where only 2 people visit a day.

  • idonotknowwhy on 09/04/2018 - 13:52
    +1

    I just Uber/Taxify everywhere now. Ends up a little cheaper for me due to:
    - Petrol
    - Parking
    - Repairs and maintenance
    - Rego
    - Insurance
    - Road Side Assist
    - The actual cost of the car (eg. if I own it for 10 years and sell it for next to nothing, that's actually got a year cost to it)
    - Infringement tickets (I'm being honest, I get them sometimes)

    And now I don't have to drive anywhere.
    I also get to use a car to places with limited parking available and just jump out right outside the door and get on with my life.

    Car ownership is a burden these days.

    • Matslurpee on 09/04/2018 - 14:08
      +1

      Depreciation.

      • idonotknowwhy on 09/04/2018 - 14:13
        +1

        yeah, that's the one lol

  • OzzyOzbourne on 09/04/2018 - 15:30

    And the Australian government's archaic stance on promoting and supporting anything that is forward thinking. We're only just moving from V8s to diesel, 20 years behind Europe and 30 years behind Japan.

    We don't yet have enough roads or public transport to support the population.

    Electric cars are so far down the agenda, it's not worth thinking about.

    • Foxxster on 09/04/2018 - 15:50

      And I am sure you are well aware that Europe is now back peddling as fast as they can on diesel and are getting rid of them through bans. Lucky we did not go down that path. The only reason Europe initially adopted them is due to their much higher fuel costs at the pump, diesel being more fuel efficient. Then there were tax breaks based on co2 emissions which again were lower than petrol vehicles. Our fuel prices are much lower but I am sure if we had been paying the equivalent of about $2.50 a litre for petrol instead of currently around $1.50, during the 80s and 90s, then more people would have naturally turned to diesel cars.

  • HeWhoKnows on 09/04/2018 - 16:09
    +2

    OP got it right in your first paragraph:
    "I told him to not hold his breath waiting."

    Australia presently has no policy or structure to support EVs.
    And you have to study what they have done in California and in the US to promote EVs to understand what I mean. Its far too long to discuss here.

    Until our government commit to do the same some time in the distant future car importers will never sell EVs in high enough volumes to bring down the price.

    Just remember that our government makes a fortune from oil and petroluem revenues as do the fuel companies. They are partners in crime.
    But neither makes a single cent out of EVs running on electricity.
    Hnece there is absolutely no incentive to change things any time soon.

  • Illian on 09/04/2018 - 17:05

    I'm waiting for battery technology to have that imminent breakthrough any year now that will really change things in regards to charge times and range, guarantee I'll be getting an EV within 10 years.

    • pegaxs on 09/04/2018 - 17:58

      I'm waiting for super capacitor technology to take off. This technology looks very promising. Very quick to charge. Able to dump massive amounts of energy at once. So that means you will have a lot more instantaneous power available at any point of time and the way capacitors charge, the simple act of coasting or use of re-generative braking will almost instantly refill the capacitors.

      If EVs want to seriously compete with ICE cars, the whole filling to full needs to take no more than 5~10 mins and range needs to be up around that 500~600km per charge. Super capactitors have the 5~10 mins thing down, but distance wise, no where near that yet…

      • Euphemistic on 09/04/2018 - 20:12

        The current problem with supercapacitors is that they can’t store power for long periods. Agree though it’d be great to have half super caps and half batteries. Quick charges and plenty of power, but enough backup to charge on Monday and use a couple of days later.

      • trongy on 09/04/2018 - 23:03
        +1

        Super-capacitors sound great until you look at the energy density.
        Super-capacitors are still at least ten times the size of an equivalent Lithium ion battery. It's highly unlikely that the technology will overtake batteries for passenger cars in the next few decades, especially if batteries keep improving.

        Mind you, a Chinese company has built super capacitor buses. They only have a 6km range but can charge very quickly at bus stops.

    • [Deactivated] on 10/04/2018 - 09:35
      +1

      There has been a break through in technology, which has been largely under reported on. Elon Musk did his early university thesis on the supercapacitors mentioned below, but I don’t think it’s that. When they released prototypes of the new Tesla Roadster (200kw) and the Tesla
      Semi (~1000kw) the big elephant in the room was where they put the batteries. Some people speculated that they double stacked 2170 cells in the roadster, but that would be a good 50cm if stack to sit on top of, so very unlikely. The truck just doesn’t look like it has the space for 10 ‘skateboards’ to be stacked on top of each other under the can. Remember that a Model 3 Tesla just first 75kw of 2170 under its floor, and the Roadster is much smaller and is somehow going to fit 2.5 times the capacity. So Tesla has something pretty special up third sleeve, coming to market in 2 years.

  • burningrage on 09/04/2018 - 17:55
    +10

    Hi OP,

    I am an owner of PHEV Car and since you're asking for an opinion about the experience of owning one, I am happy to share my HONEST experience without bias.

    The TL;DR version of my experience is that it is a very awesome feeling to own an electric vehicle IF you are prepared to accept a number of its limitations especially in relation to range anxiety and the fact you cannot drive an EV like you're driving an XR8 (pedal to the metal type).

    My car is an PHEV which means there is no range anxiety but this comes at the cost of heavier car and the fact that it does only max 52kms but I'll cover for both.

    The Good
    1. You get $100 rebate in registration in VIC. I don't know about other states sorry.
    2. You only have to service once a year about 15,000km. My other ICE (Internal Combustion Engine) cars require 2x a year at 5,000 to 6,000kms. However, most non-inline cars now only do once a year service so this advantage is diminishing.
    3. Because it is electric, you don't pay for fuel or if you do, much less. Compared my other car which gulps 14.5lt/100kms, my PHEV does 1.5 to 2.0lt/100kms inception to date. Unfortunately, the Govt recently realized that means no excise tax to pay as well so within 3-5 years, you will be slugged extra tax so if you haven't got a PHEV or i-Miev or LEAF 2-3 years ago, you're too late I am afraid. My savings are $4,000 per annum on fuel and that's PHEV. It will be larger on EV only.
    4. It's very quiet almost to the point of no noise which is always good. Help with kids sleeping.
    5. If you own solar, your charging cost could be nil which means charging the car for free. Some shopping towns have charging station so if you own LEAF or TESLA, that's free charging electricity for you. Even more saving.
    6. Insurance seems to be cheaper on PHEV. Not sure why but that's my experience.
    7. You get guaranteed parking spot for electric car. Westfield Doncaster is one example. Good for Christmas.
    8. On Tesla, instant torque is real! For others, the pickup experience is quite smooth, no jerking as in manual car/auto car transmission changes. I test driven a TESLA on Monash Freeway and 3 sec to get to 100kms is real.
    9. In theory, given less moving parts, a PHEV/EV car should last longer (in useful life).
    10. And for PHEV Outlander, the car in theory, is capable of powering a home with an inverter but Mitsubishi Australia is yet to issue that inverter. Applicable for MY18 PHEV outlander. The new LEAF I think will be able to do that.

    The bad (some really bad ones)
    1. The range advertised is an ASSUMPTION range. In real time, the real range is approximately 60%-70% of the advertised range. So for Tesla of about 530kms, the real is about 380km. This is because 530kms is driving with NO aircon, NO speeding (leadfoot), FRUGAL driving (max regenerative braking), and Summer driving. In Winter, your range drops. To make worse, you don't use 100% of battery capacity (see below).
    2. The battery given is not 100% utilizable. So you buy $130k Tesla but can only use 70% of capacity. An Outlander for example have 12aH capacity but you can only use
    9.8aH at showroom. Plus, when you fully charged the car, it won't go to 9.8ah. It would go to somewhere between 9aH to 9.2aH. So you are effectively ripped off from the purchase date.
    3. In colder weather (defined as anything below 18 degree), the range decreases up to 25% because battery doesn't like cold. At near zero, the range further decreases by 50%. An Outlander in winter can only drive 35kms out of 52kms advertised. Tesla has a simulation which you can use to calculate range.
    4. The charging speed is effing slow. The fastest charger which is CHADEMO standard takes at least 30 minutes to 45 minutes to get 80% range. This will be even obvious if you charge from home using 10amp socket. An Outlander takes 5 hours to charge at 8-10amp.
    5. PHEV/EVs will soon be taxed differently because the Govt realized no excise was paid since an EV doesn't need petrol. To make it worse, there is no incentive to buy EV (see below).
    6. PHEV/EVs are expensive. An outlander would cost $10k to $13k compared to non-PHEV. Hope the price to drop.
    7. Batteries not replaceable. Accordingly, resale value is not that good either.
    8. Range anxiety is real but PHEV doesn't have range anxiety.
    9. As the car is not common, outside the capped pricing, the servicing cost is expected to be higher albeit the car may last longer due to less mechanical parts.
    10. No effective 7 seater for PHEV/EV. Model X is NOT a very good 7 seater in my opinion. Your car selection options are limited. One more thing I noticed, when I drive by myself I could do say 45kms but as soon with 4 member of families, the range dropped to 38kms.

    So there you go, I hope this helps.

  • Randxyz123 on 09/04/2018 - 18:38
    +1

    At the moment the only real options for electric cars is Tesla or BMW. Yes there are more options coming but thanks (partly) to the Australian government's lack of interest in electric cars and global warming and their obsession with saving the coal industry, there's no Government incentive to buy one. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_incentives_for_plug…

    Every other city in the US or Europe I've visited there are places to plug in your electric car on the street.

    There's meant to be a new Nissan Leaf in a few months time. I believe it will be in the A$50K mark so high end small car but not unaffordable.

    In answer to your question I'd say yes I would but I still would wait for another generation or 2. It's a bit like the first smartphones. The first ever iPhone was good but it was expensive. Now look. Having a smartphone is very common it's unusual to find anyone under 60 without one. There are several brands making them and they are pretty affordable.

    • lostn on 09/04/2018 - 20:28
      +2

      That doesn't make sense to me. The coal industry is who will be powering your EV. Why would an electric car threaten the coal industry?

    • lostn on 10/04/2018 - 00:44

      The first ever iPhone was good but it was expensive.

      They didn't get cheaper, believe me. They only seem to get more and more expensive, though they are packed with more features.

      Unlike with cars, phones have payment plans that make them affordable for the average consumer. You can get them for free with a contract. You can't do that with a car, unless you finance it but that will end up costing you a lot more in the long run.

      • burningrage on 10/04/2018 - 07:00

        When I got my PHEV, it was on special 0.99% finance. You could wait for this to come, usually around December.

  • Aceboy884 on 09/04/2018 - 19:49
    +1

    probably not practical for someone who lives in an apartment

    until that problem is solved, its no go

  • lostn on 09/04/2018 - 20:22

    I wouldn't mind one but I used Tesla's cost calculator based on existing electricity prices (which are always going up) and it comes to about $10 a day for me, which is more expensive than petrol. It's supposed to be cheaper not more expensive.

    I don't know why you would want to run a car based on such an expensive resource as electricity. It's also not friendlier to the environment because the electricity is generated by coal unless you pay even more for your electricity. Then there's the heavy footprint of the giant battery.

    • Euphemistic on 09/04/2018 - 22:17

      Assuming 20kwh for a battery charge, say 2/3 of battery capacity (for simplicity) and charging at 50c/kWh (peak rates) your $10 might be right. So are you travelling over 250km per day and charging during peak hour?

      Charging off peak will make a big difference, and is what you would typically do, plug in when you get home and wait for it to charge overnight, don’t charge it when the power rates are at their highest.

      • lostn on 10/04/2018 - 00:34

        I don't have discounted off peak rates with my provider. Some providers offer it, but in exchange, peak rates will be higher.

        I used their calculator based on 100 km a day, though they seem to have taken it down. Maybe because it's not all that impressive if you punch in the numbers.

        • Euphemistic on 10/04/2018 - 07:06

          Yeah sounds like the calculator was a bit broken.

        • burningrage on 10/04/2018 - 07:08

          If you combine with Solar at home, your peak usage is at least 50% - 70% taken care off. You then can get off peak which you should aim to pay no more than 13c GST inclusive per KWh. You use this to charge your electric car.

          I have done the calc and for PHEV, daily charge cost is $1 or less. With solar feed tariff earned during the day, this cost went further down to zero.

        • lostn on 10/04/2018 - 11:09
          +1

          @burningrage: Yes, but Solar will be a significant outlay that will take many years to repay. As someone who visits a bargain site, I just don't have that kind of cash to throw around.

          Solar will be a lot more useful if you have a battery to store it in, but those will be even more expensive and degrade over time.

        • lostn on 10/04/2018 - 11:12

          @Euphemistic: That might be right. When they first said the Model S was coming to AU, I went to their site and used their calculator and it seemed very expensive, so I never looked back. Maybe there was something wrong with the calculator after all?

          I believed the numbers simply because it's a very powerful car, and the home charger is like 20A. Which is like 8 phones being charged at once.

        • Euphemistic on 10/04/2018 - 11:30

          @lostn: 20A charge is 4800W (or 4.8kW). That is like 400 phones charging at a high charge rate (12W), or 960 phones at a more normal 5W rate. A typical household 'high current' plug is 15A, so capable of 3600W, but there might be possibility of installing a higher rate charge point depending on your house.

          Sure, it is a high powered car and the reality is that fully charging a car will use more than a typical house consumption. When I heard that a local converted electric car had 20kWh of batteries I was surprised as our house uses around 26kWh per day. Driving that car 100km would use about half the battery, so 10kWh per day, just under 3hrs on a 15A outlet. If charge off peak, that would be around $1.5

        • burningrage on 10/04/2018 - 12:36
          +1

          @lostn:

          Yes. It is true and thank you for saying that.

          At the end of the day, don't fall into the trap that many people use by saying "Oh, power cost nothing with solar" or "Oh, wind costs nothing". These sort of comments notably (and regrettably), coming from energy traders (I used to work for a generation business) who keep saying the costs are zero.

          What they fail to say is that solar (and wind) is a very inefficient technology in a current state as I have explained above and it costs a lot of money.

          Only when the battery technology gets a lot better will I consider another PHEV or EV.

          When I got my PHEV, it was a lot cheaper than RRP and only 0.99% finance. Otherwise, I wouldn't be getting it. Having said it, if you ignore the economics, then it's a very very awesome piece of technology to drive on.

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