Is It Time to Buy an Electric Vehicle?

pegaxs on 08/04/2018 - 22:09
Last edited 12/04/2018 - 18:42

Was chatting to a customer about his (fropanity) heap car on the weekend and how much it was going to cost him to keep it running and its ongoing running costs. He was holding off updating his car becuse he is waiting for the price of Electric Vehicles to drop down into the regular car price bracket. I told him to not hold his breath waiting.

The conversation expanded with another employee joining in and mentioning that if they were giving EV cars away, they still wouldn’t drive one. When asked why not? it was about range, but more so the re-energising time to charge the batteries.

So, I was curious about OzB’s thoughts on electric cars. Would you consider buying one? What’s currently stopping you? Price, range, charge time, charging stations? Something else? Would you never consider buying one?

As there is a bigger and bigger push towards more eco friendly vehicles with more manufacturers taking the bigger leap into EVs, what would you like to see more development into? Maybe invested into hybrid technology rather than straight electric?

And this goes for both cars and motorcycles. Maybe cars don’t tickle your fancy, but an electric motorcycle might scratch your EV itch?

I have to say that I am interested in the technology and think that it has come so far in the last few years that I am excited for the future. Range doesn’t bother me so much, but the price, that’s a different league on its own. While they are cheaper to charge up and maintain, there is still a gaping chasm in price, especially in the motorcycle sector that I would like to dip my toe into…

Also keen to hear from current owners. You happy with your EV? Would you buy another one? What would you like to change about your current vehicle?

Edit: Pease read the poll options as "want, but…" Because the "yes" seemed to have confused at least 4 people…

Poll Options

  • 80
    Next car will be an EV
  • 482
    Yes, but price
  • 13
    Yes, but range/km
  • 5
    Yes, but charge time
  • 14
    Yes, but other
  • 33
    Would never own one
  • 15
    Already own one
Automotive Car Electric Vehicle Motorcycle

Comments

        • xsacha on 12/04/2018 - 08:48

          There's an electricity provider (AGL) that offers $1/day electric car charging.

          Or you could just buy solar and a battery.

    • burningrage on 10/04/2018 - 07:02

      For Tesla, the key thing to do is to charge at commercial charger.

      Tesla owners are lucky. They can get both Tesla Superchargers which are now free up to certain KWs (used to be infinite free charging) but they can also get CHARGEPOINT chargers which we have. THat one is free to charge so your electricity cost could be down to zero.

      The other thing is if you must charge at home, use the Off Peak Tariff which should be no more than 13c GST inclusive per KWh.

  • chrismoo on 09/04/2018 - 21:53
    +1

    To branch this discussion out from cars & motorbikes, I'm helping my wife look at electric bicycles at the moment.

    We're lucky to live near to work, my wife often rides to work for a combination of the exercise and free parking and no petrol costs, but she does find the ride hard at times. We do have 2 cars which she uses to go to work too on the other days, but in running the maths on our older second ICE car, what with rego + insurance + fuel + parking etc, we're pretty sure we can retire the old car, purchase an electric bike, and even considering the maintenance costs + possibly relatively short lifetime of the ebike battery, be financially in front pretty much in the first year or two.

    Separately I also ride to work but have been riding for 20 odd years and am fit, so an ebike isn't necessary (at least yet). However having ridden in Perth for so long where I've seen the boom in riders over the last 10 odd years, I've certainly noticed the next big trend of ebike riders on the shared paths of people who I think otherwise wouldn't be riding, which is great to see. A day doesn't go by where I'm puffing away trying to catch somebody on an bicycle, only to realize they're on an ebike!

    Ebikes and bicycles don't fit everyone's lifestyles and situation, but from a cyclist's perspective it's an interesting time seeing how popular they're becoming. I am speculating that before we commonly see charging stations at work for cars, we might see powerpoints in work bike lockers first.

  • tdw on 10/04/2018 - 05:23
    +1

    i've been living in rentals my whole life. in all those places, we never had a proper garage with a power point.
    so my main concern — assuming i ever get out of my broke-arse state of affairs and had enough to buy an electric car — would be the practicalities of charging it at home without involving the landlord.

  • Lucky13 on 10/04/2018 - 06:54

    Solar powered cars would be cool. Maybe they should develop that tech.

    EDIT: Found this https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_car 1st car listed looks alright, 2nd not so much. Supposedly China are developing the tech for everyday road use.

    • Euphemistic on 10/04/2018 - 07:13
      +2

      You’d be hard pressed to get enough power from the sun to power a car using only the panels on its roof and bodywork. The ones that look like regular cars are electric cars that have a bit of top up from the panels but receive most of their power from the grid.

      It is a good concept though. I’d guess that itd probably make enough power to get me home from work after a sunny day, but I only have a short commute.

      • Lucky13 on 10/04/2018 - 07:17

        Oh thanks yeah I dont know much about the tech, just thought it sounded even more environmentally friendly :)

        • ninetyNineCents on 03/05/2018 - 10:18

          Lucky:

          Solar panels are not environmentally friendly. I suggest you take a look at the mining and manuf process, its not pretty and its certainly not green. A lot of toxic heavy metals and similar components go into making batteries.

          Have you had a look at the places where Lithium is found in Bolivia ? Did you ever notice how those salt flats are COMPLETELY DEAD and have basically no LIFE AT ALL.

        • Euphemistic on 03/05/2018 - 10:57
          +1

          @ninetyNineCents: Any salt flat will have no life at all. IT's what a salt flat is.

      • Cluster on 10/04/2018 - 12:32
        +1

        Indeed. On a bright sunny day the best you'll get at midday is around 1kw/m2 insolation. Take about 20% of that and you get 200w/m2 of panels at an ideal time. Your average 1300kg car needs maybe 10kw or more to even maintain cruising speed. A car directly powered by solar panels is only possible if you want to build it out of aluminium tubing and plastic sheets.

  • cashie on 10/04/2018 - 10:08
    +1

    Those who mentioned price as a hurdle will be interested in the coming wave of EVs and PHEVs.
    They look like they will be reasonably priced and some may even be usable for families.

    One example is the Hyundai Ioniq, being offered in three different configurations to suit almost all, full EV, Hybrid and plug in Hybrid. Interesting times ahead.
    https://www.motoring.com.au/hyundai-ioniq-2018-review-111718…

    • burningrage on 10/04/2018 - 12:38

      Yes. I am eyeing on Ioniq too.

  • lostn on 10/04/2018 - 11:25

    The car I want is the eGolf but we're not getting it. Volkswagen AU says they will introduce Golf GTE (hybrid) first because AU is not ready for EVs and it doesn't make sense right now. But GTE is not out yet, and they're expecting it 2019.

    If I get an EV, it has to drive like a real car, not like an iMIEV, Leaf or Prius.

  • aong152 on 10/04/2018 - 11:42

    The problem is that EV's are way too expensive in australia. They are far cheaper in other countries.

    • burningrage on 10/04/2018 - 12:39

      Outlander PHEV 2014 model (the previous model) can be had for upper $20k.

      Try to combine this with low interest rate (I had mine at 0.99%) and you will win big.

      It's probably the only car where there is a rate of return on investment :-)

      • Hugoz on 11/04/2018 - 19:10

        Agreed, I got the same second-hand 3 years ago, and could sell it for the same price today.
        But I'm not selling, I love it and there's nothing like it in that price range yet.

  • Stimps on 10/04/2018 - 11:44

    I for one can not wait for ev’s to be affordable. In NZ you can get a 2016 leaf for $24,000. Not so in Australia, something to do with protecting the car manufacturing industry which doesn’t exist anymore. I’d buy one today if it were an option.

    • burningrage on 11/04/2018 - 20:49

      Leaf 2018 would be much better. I think you probably would have dodged a bullet in not buying 2016 Leaf.

  • Herbse on 10/04/2018 - 12:01
    +2

    Everyone complaining about the restraints with EV's are making the exact same excuses horse riders would make when motor vehicles were being introduced.

    • It's more expensive up front
    • The infrastructure isn't there to support it
    • There are range limitations
    • I can't feed it my easily sourced and outdated type of fuel

    If the pioneers, beleivers and early adopters in motor vehicles didn't persue them which grew the infrastructure that it required, imagine where we would still be.

    No one forced people to buy a car back then, especially if you couldn't afford it or see its value.
    But because of the people who did, the roads, petrol stations and technology improved to where we are today.

    I personally can't afford one, I would love to get a second hand model 3 which I think I could afford when it gets to that. But I'm thankful for everyone who invested in Tesla and grew it's popularity and the competition we are seeing.

    • Euphemistic on 10/04/2018 - 12:39

      No one forced people to buy a car back then, especially if you couldn't afford it or see its value.
      But because of the people who did, the roads, petrol stations and technology improved to where we are today

      stuck with gridlock traffic, noxious fumes and expensive maintenance bills for a vehicle that is occupied by one person who is getting fatter! We might be better off if we still only had horses and bicycles for personal transport.

      • Herbse on 10/04/2018 - 12:52

        All of which was a stepping stone to what is being laid out for the future.

        Automated driving, reducing congestion
        Emission free vehicles
        Lower running costs in ev's or none if you car share

        I agree that we destroyed the planet with our lust for self improvement and greed. That's human nature.

        • lostn on 10/04/2018 - 14:17
          -2

          How does an automated vehicle decide in the case of an imminent accident whether to kill you, or kill another person (e.g. another motorist, or pedestrian who doesn't give a fk)? Will it calculate how many people are in your car and if it exceeds the pedestrians about to be hit, it kills the pedestrians, otherwise it swerves into an oncoming truck because fewer people dying is better than more?

        • Euphemistic on 10/04/2018 - 14:53

          @lostn: lets leave that to the lawyers.

          when we get to a point where there are no human drivers and it's all automated, the 'system' will be much more efficient and there will be less of the need to choose a head on or a pedestrian. I suspect that busy areas will be negotiated at a lower speed than currently because the 'driver' wont know how to rush.

        • Herbse on 10/04/2018 - 15:03
          +1

          @lostn:
          I love when people bring up the ethics of automated driving. As though so many drivers have the opportunity to make these thought provocking decisions within the micro seconds of the accident.

        • lostn on 10/04/2018 - 15:04

          @Euphemistic: We're not going to get from 0 automated to 100% automated overnight. It's going to adopted in phases. Some people will get it first, then more later when it's affordable. Like all technology, first gen models are for early adopters and will be expensive and lacking a lot of features that will come later.

          We're going to encounter these dilemmas long before we can reach an ideal world where it's all automated. And even then there will be car enthusiasts who are holdouts because they enjoy driving and would rather do it themselves, and some who will never trust the technology. And some who can't afford it. I'm in two minds about it myself.

          I don't see how a fully automated world will make unpredictable pedestrians not an issue. I can see it reducing car accidents if every car was connected to some kind of network that talks to each other. This would reduce or eliminate collisions because your car knows at all times what the other cars are doing. But that wouldn't work on a pedestrian, and that's when snap decisions need to be made.

          We can't simply leave it to the lawyers and not think about it until it's here.

          I love when people bring up the ethics of automated driving. As though so many drivers have the opportunity to make these thought provocking decisions within the micro seconds of the accident.

          I'm not calling it ethical or not ethical. I simply want to know what it would do because.. I'm a curious person. I myself wouldn't know what to do in such a short space of time. But I'm excused because no one expects it from me. A car on the other hand doesn't get that excuse, and has to make a conscious decision. I'm curious to know how it does that. And if the software is faulty, well that's going to be a shitstorm.

        • uccoffee on 10/04/2018 - 15:37

          @lostn:

          I think it make sense if highway is only for automated vehicles. Give it 20 years and we will get there.

      • ninetyNineCents on 10/04/2018 - 19:18

        You need to read your history books and learn how cities were in the days of horse and buggies. THere were TONNES of HORSE SHIT everywhere, and there were also thousands of horses DYING every week in NYC. Those dead horses didnt clean themselves up, the place STUCK.

        Its part of the reason why ROYALs and their residences were often outside of their capitals because of the smell… Versailles was a small town outside paris, etc.

      • ninetyNineCents on 10/04/2018 - 19:19
        +1

        The real solution is to solve the madness where people are travelling large distances to work. For example it crazy that thousands of people drive from the central coast or the gong to sydney for work each day.

        • saltypete on 10/04/2018 - 21:50

          I'm not sure that autonomous vehicles will fix that. If I had lots of money and access to an autonomous vehicle I might decide that I can have a long commute and start doing work on the way. I can see my kids staggering into it in their pjs and having a sleep in then a quick change of clothes close to town. Maybe sucking gently on a coffee if the thing has a machine in it.
          Brave new world……

        • ninetyNineCents on 11/04/2018 - 10:28

          @saltypete:

          Never claimed that autonomous cars will fix , that im stating the problem is the structure of work and people is crazy.

        • Lv80 on 11/04/2018 - 12:15
          +1

          exactly! The majority of people shouldn't even need cars. City design is horrible. Melbourne stretches 200km long and people commute already 60km + to work in town.

          Euro cities have been around for so much longer as examples of how to design cities and yet we ignored it all and ignore it still when allowing city sprawl to continue.

          A good public transport system. Bikes. Access to all essentials by walking.

          This all reduces congestion, deaths, money, pollution, environmental destruction, less roads, healthier people….so on and so on.

          But lets just build more roads, more cars (even if they are automated and electric). That's the solution.

        • ninetyNineCents on 11/04/2018 - 13:56
          +1

          @Lv80:

          L> Euro cities have been around for so much longer as examples of how to design cities and yet we ignored it all and ignore it still when allowing city sprawl to continue.

          99: That was just luck / evolution. Euro cities are all old and compact because people didnt have cars in the old days.

          L: A good public transport system. Bikes. Access to all essentials by walking.

          99: I partly agree, while a good pub transport system is obviously better than now, the fact those people are moving such distances is the real problem. Its madness that kids travel 1hr to goto school, they should all be walking/biking to the local school. Anything more than that should basically be not allowed or completely discouraged.

          L: But lets just build more roads, more cars (even if they are automated and electric). That's the solution.

          99: Sarcasm off… I agree, you cant win by building roads, because as soon as you build one, its full again. Thats a fact, always happens, and when i say always i mean 99% of the time, the 1% being stupid follies or roads to nowhere.

  • uccoffee on 10/04/2018 - 15:29

    EV also saves you around 15 minutes petrol station visit per week.
    sometimes, time is more valuable than any other things.

    • burningrage on 11/04/2018 - 20:51

      +1 for this. Saves the queue. I should have added this on the Pros in my most.

  • MadTacoWarrior on 10/04/2018 - 15:36
    +2

    The poll is missing "No, it's a bit early" option.
    I will eventually go electric when fuel cell option becomes available OR when electricity used to charge the EVs is actually clean (ie. not generated by burning coal or gas) and affordable.
    I like ICE vehicles because of convenience (additional 500km range added in 3 min), familiarity (I can actually diagnose and repair), and noise (esp. that of V8).

    • uccoffee on 10/04/2018 - 15:38

      noise is part of the polution, I think maybe in 30 years time, noisy cars are only for car shows / tracks

      • idonotknowwhy on 10/04/2018 - 16:25

        Nah, I bet they'll have to simulate petrol engine noise, to avoid sneaking up on and hitting blind and/or distracted pedestrians.

      • MadTacoWarrior on 10/04/2018 - 16:35

        If and only if it's loud enough. Otherwise, it's aural delight to folks like me and real-time feedback system that lets the driver know the engine is working well/hard and it's probably good time to switch to a more appropriate gear.

    • Euphemistic on 10/04/2018 - 18:41

      Although in some ways more complex, electric cars are actually pretty simple in concept. Bateries, controller and motor. Not a lot to go wrong, unlike the myriad of systems that combine to make an ICE.

      • MadTacoWarrior on 10/04/2018 - 20:28

        Perhaps, conceptually simple to you, but It's not for me and I used to be an electrical/materials engineer in automotive industry. Certainly, there are a relatively smaller number of things that can go wrong, but that number isn't actually small; when so many parts from many different manufacturers come together, a lot can still go wrong. Just ask QC/QA folks at any car manufacturers!

        • Euphemistic on 10/04/2018 - 20:37

          Might be time for a little research Into how they work then. Can’t be a very good electrical engineer for the automotive industry if you don’t understand how a battery, speed comtroller and motor work.

          The only real trickery in them is managing the batteries and balancing the charge and perhaps regenerative braking. Other than that it’s power into batteries to fill them up, power into motor proportionally compared to the ‘throttle’ position.

          Ancillaries will effectively run the same as an ICE car except the Ac pump will be electric and the heater will be more like the fan heater at home than a water radiatior.

        • MadTacoWarrior on 10/04/2018 - 20:56

          @Euphemistic: What makes you think I don't understand?
          Any 2nd or 3rd year engineering undergrad, regardless of department, would know what you have said, if not more.
          I designed hybrid trains after I left Ford. How about you? Have been involved in any EV development?

        • Euphemistic on 10/04/2018 - 21:16
          -1

          @MadTacoWarrior: so there you go, if you’ve designed hybrid drivetrains you should understand it. It’s not that hard and if you put a little effort into it you could work it out,

          While I haven’t ‘been involved’ with EV development - yet - I’ve done enough research to be confident enough to be looking for a vintage car to convert to electric. Sure, I’m probably over confident right now but I’ll work it out. And yes, I’ve rebuilt an ICE engine and repaired plenty of cars over the years so I’ve got a bit of an idea how they work too.

  • buwa99 on 10/04/2018 - 17:31
    +1

    People arguing for conventional cars over electric always remind me of the dinosaurs waiting for the meteor to hit.

    • MadTacoWarrior on 10/04/2018 - 23:01
      +3

      Some fun facts:

      Electric cars were popular over 100 years ago (around 1900) until "people arguing for conventional cars over electric" realised the obvious advantages of vehicles powered by ICE.

      Thanks to advances in science and engineering, mankind has created microbes (bacteria and algae) that can turn various sugars into biodiesel (eg. waxy stuff found on apples). As long as sugar-producing plants live on this planet, we will never run out of practically carbon neutral fuel for ICE.

      Dinosaurs roamed the Earth for over 180 million years before their demise. So, that would be a very long wait indeed.

      Considering a large proportion (as in over 85%) of electricity in Australia is generated by burning fossil fuels, pure electric vehicles are not all that environmentally friendly. EVs shift pollution to somewhere else.

      • buwa99 on 11/04/2018 - 17:27
        +1

        If cars ran on fructose USA would die of hunger.
        The current Australian government has never been forward thinking in renewables,science and technology. Just look at the NBN.

  • trevbreak on 10/04/2018 - 18:20

    I would love an EV - but it would always be a second car for me.
    Right now I don't really need a second car (I commute on a bike, and only occasionally drive my car on weekends) - so the appetite is there, but low.

    I have a deep passion for performance cars, and I'm happy to be that dinosaur with my petrol based weekend car for thrashing around a mountain/track.

  • ninetyNineCents on 10/04/2018 - 19:13
    +2

    Its amazing how many people here, claim how wonderful tesla is, and yet they fail to mention tesla has serious quality issues in record numbers that far exceed those of ALL other manuf, except for former soviet union cars like the LADA.

    DOnt believe anything i say, google "tesla quality issues" and take a look how they cant even get the panels to line up or gaps on vehicles they take to CAR SHOWS.

    One has to wonder what kind of manufacturer takes a car to a show, with MASSIVE gaps and misaligned panels.

    • MadTacoWarrior on 10/04/2018 - 20:38
      +1

      One has to wonder what kind of manufacturer takes a car to a show, with MASSIVE gaps and misaligned panels.

      During development as well as early stages of manufacturing, it takes months to sort out gaps and panel alignment, believe it or not.

      • ninetyNineCents on 10/04/2018 - 20:48

        No it doesnt. Manuf sort those problems before they go into mass production mode.

        Of course alignment and gaps are cosmetic, but if you cant get the simple things, right what does that say about getting other assembling of components where safety is affected.

        • MadTacoWarrior on 10/04/2018 - 21:00

          Manuf sort those problems before they go into mass production mode.

          Select luxury and sports car companies do. For the rest, that'd be wishful thinking, especially with early production runs.

        • ninetyNineCents on 10/04/2018 - 21:34

          @MadTacoWarrior:

          M: Select luxury and sports car companies do. For the rest, that'd be wishful thinking, especially with early production runs.

          99: No they dont, many manuf iron out these sorts of mistakes in trial runs because it costs them money, money in more staff to handle customer complaints, the cost of extra facilities, the cost of transport and more.

        • MadTacoWarrior on 10/04/2018 - 21:49
          +1

          @ninetyNineCents:

          No they dont, many manuf iron out these sorts of mistakes in trial runs because it costs them money, money in more staff to handle customer complaints, the cost of extra facilities, the cost of transport and more.

          In theory. Do a quick Google search. Tesla made to the top of my search, and even Jap manufacturers came up a few pages down.

          It's not that rare when new models are introduced:

          eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rHHD-4kC8Uc

          Even my company Commodore (VF) has far from perfect panel alignment.

        • ninetyNineCents on 11/04/2018 - 10:30

          @MadTacoWarrior:

          99: No they dont, many manuf iron out these sorts of mistakes in trial runs because it costs them money, money in more staff to handle customer complaints, the cost of extra facilities, the cost of transport and more.

          MTC: In theory

          99: No thats a fact. Customer returns are a major cost that ALL comapnies try and avoid.

          ~

          MTC: Even my company Commodore (VF) has far from perfect panel alignment.

          99: Yes but theres a different between a CVF and a 150K car. When you take delivery from BMW or Mercedes, you can refuse a car if its got gaps, because thats simply unacceptable.

          If this was a chinese car, people would be saying its typical of chinese crap, but these teslas are 100k cars. For that price its not acceptable. There should be no scratches, no gaps, everything should be perfect, the germans can manage that.

    • Cusack on 12/04/2018 - 19:02

      Give them time. Tesla are infants compared to all other car manufacturers. The guts and car functionality is more important than cosmetics.

      • ninetyNineCents on 12/04/2018 - 19:21

        C: Give them time. Tesla are infants compared to all other car manufacturers. The guts and car functionality is more important than cosmetics.

        99: Its not a question of cosmetics its a question of quality control. I was just using the gap alignment problem as an example of their lack of attention to detail.

        If they cant get simple things done right that everyone can see, what guarantee do you have of the other parts that YOU CANT SEE ?

        Btw: Would you get on a Garuda airline, even after their recent crashes and banning from european airports ? Life and safety are a bit more complicated than just looking if the paint is shiny.

        The planes are all painted, what else could be wrong ?

        European ban (2007-09) In June 2007, the EU banned Garuda Indonesia, along with all other Indonesian airlines, from flying into any European countries, following the crash of a Boeing 737-400 earlier that year.
        Garuda Indonesia - Wikipedia
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Garuda_Indonesia

  • ninetyNineCents on 10/04/2018 - 20:10
    +1

    heres an example of quality from tesla.

    Faulty door handles on a car that costs $125 USD, and remains a problem THREE YEARS later. Yes the article is over 2 yrs old, but there are many other similar examples tht simply dont exist on other cars.

    https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/05/18/tesla-c…

    see a relatively mechanical system be their biggest problem," says Jake Fisher, Consumer Reports' director of auto testing.

    Tesla Motor CEO Elon Musk, known for being finicky when it comes to details on the car like seat comfort, apparently doesn't have a fix in the works for balky door handles. Tesla officials say they know of none in the works.

  • LionelDroppout on 10/04/2018 - 20:46

    For me to buy one it would need to be same price and equipment level as a comparable sized car that I would ordinarily buy. So in my case, same size as corolla hatch and for $25K drive away. Or say $18K for a Yaris sized hatch. Not a dollar more.

    It should not have a horrible design like the split across the back window as the Prius or Honda insight/cr-z does, for the sake of aerodynamics or whatever the reason is.

    It would need to be done fully charging within say 8 hours, cost much less per year for any servicing and to give a genuine 400KM range before recharge. I don't drive that far but why compromise if petrol can do it? Insurance and rego should be same or less than their petrol equivalent.

    Until all of the above are met, I will not be interested. Price is definitely the biggest problem.

  • zfind on 10/04/2018 - 21:51
    +2

    This is coming from a guy that owns and restores 70's vehicles and who (most of the time) loves fixing, repairing and improving cars: internal combustion engine cars are eventually going to lose to electrics - there's just no comparison. Here's a small list of things I've recently replaced which wouldn't even be on an electric car:

    radiator, coolant, radiator hoses, oil and filter, fuel lines, fuel filter, driveshaft uni joints, diff seals, transmission seals, bearing seals, transmission oil, diff oil, fuel pump, transmission filter, carrier bearing, etc etc etc.

    One electric motor on each / each rear wheel just can't be beaten. And 95% of people don't care for the 'driving experience', so ICE cars are going to be relegated to museum pieces.

  • kylarstern on 10/04/2018 - 22:45

    If you're interested, I'll be looking at more petrol hybrids then full fledge EV's at the moment. At least with that you still have the option of using petrol when the electric battery is dry. Australia's electric charging network is an absolute joke versus Europe and the U.S. In Brisbane, I have yet to see one outside of a Westfield shopping centre (not to mention only like some of them have charging ports). Until the infrastructure is widely available in Australia, I'd stay far far away from EV's. Not to mention their prices (i.e. atm Tesla), is an absolute joke.

    Personally, I am still a petrolhead. I too am fascinated by the growth of electric vehicles but their high entry price, high maintenance and as aforementioned, our country's ill-equipped EV infrastructure are all barriers for me to get one. I can appreciate Tesla's and their insane accelerations (ludicrous mode) but their basic interiors (for cars that cost as much as a supercar, you'd expect more than basic boring interiors with mediocre build quality) and high price points, make them absolute turn-offs (not to mention their exterior designs are extremely polarising). I'll stick to my luxury Europeans sportscars and supercars run by petroleum that make those sweet sweet exhausts.

  • Lumens on 11/04/2018 - 00:24
    +1

    I own a 2016 P85DL. I also own a 2017 C63 and a 1988 M3. I have 6 motorbikes, mostly race and superbikes so I would call myself a bit of a bike and car nut. The Tesla is amazing and if it was a choice between the three, it would be the Tesla all day everyday. No problems whatsoever. No panel gaps. Nothing. Stop reading up on the internet trolls who are protecting the ICE legacy.

    Only problem is it goes through tyres with all that torque and quick launches.

    Welcome to ask me any questions.

    • Euphemistic on 11/04/2018 - 09:11
      +5

      With all those toys, why are you on ozbargain?

      • cloudy on 11/04/2018 - 14:25
        +1

        To afford more toys!

      • nadan on 11/04/2018 - 15:30

        He has bought them with the investment in Eneloop batteries :)

      • Lumens on 11/04/2018 - 17:46

        To save money to buy more toys.

  • reon on 11/04/2018 - 02:10
    -2

    Is it the time? If you can spend 150k for daily driving then YES you idiot.

  • dangerdong on 11/04/2018 - 05:49

    Even from an environmental stand point, right now using EV cars in Australia isn't a great improvement over ICE. The electricity that we'd use to charge the EV generally will be sourced from coal fired power stations which emit a large amount of GHG. The benefits of EV over ICE in regards to emissions can be seen in other countries where renewable technologies have seen a greater uptake than here in Australia.

    If you have renewable infrastructure then the life cycle emissions of your EV go down but even right now the amount of pollution created just from the manufacturing process is still quite large and sometimes outweighs the life cycle emissions of other economically focussed ICE cars.

    I'd get one as a white good when manufacturing and electricity generation in Australia have advanced sufficiently - otherwise for now the most environmentally conscious thing to do now would be to purchase a second hand car or keep using the one you have (depending if your current car is complete broken/unsuitable for your needs).

    • ninetyNineCents on 12/04/2018 - 19:25

      DD: Even from an environmental stand point, right now using EV cars in Australia isn't a great improvement over ICE. The electricity that we'd use to charge the EV generally will be sourced from coal fired power stations which emit a large amount of GHG.

      99: To bad your simplication completely skips the environmental cost of manuf and mining the components of batteries.

      DD: If you have renewable infrastructure then the life cycle emissions of your EV go down but even right now the amount of pollution created just from the manufacturing process is still quite large and sometimes outweighs the life cycle emissions of other economically focussed ICE cars.

      99: You forgot to state that the manuf process of batteries produces toxic metals, the same metals that stay in the environment for a LONG LONG time and infect everytghing in the food chain.

      • dangerdong on 16/04/2018 - 16:56

        Yes - didn't go into specifics about battery manufacturing as they'd be included in the overall life cycle emissions of EV.

        • ninetyNineCents on 23/04/2018 - 09:38

          Emissions implies a gas, and not dumping toxic liquid into water supplies.

        • dangerdong on 29/04/2018 - 18:12

          @ninetyNineCents: yeah alright mate i'm pretty sure we're on the same page don't see why you're so abrasive lmao

        • ninetyNineCents on 30/04/2018 - 14:03

          @dangerdong:

          Why dont you do yourself and actually check with a critical mind ?

        • Speckled Jim on 30/04/2018 - 14:16

          Emissions implies a gas

          Carbon footprint then.
          Batteries, aluminium, coltan and many other rare-earth goodies. The total footprint including the mining, processing and transportation of it all.
          It remains a dirty business.

        • dangerdong on 30/04/2018 - 20:42

          @ninetyNineCents: do you just go around being a dick to people in real life too? I don't understand how I've slighted you in the first place lmao

        • ninetyNineCents on 01/05/2018 - 13:56

          @dangerdong:

          I was just clarifying the context of the comments. Various comments in this thread, dont understand that statements ab out electric cars only work out if you play word games and carefully side step issues like the impact of battery production.

  • affable on 11/04/2018 - 11:25
    +3

    It never ceases to surprise me how much passionate debate occurs when EV are discussed. The same has happened on the Whirlpool site. I'm not sure however I suspect its inbred from the Ford vs Holden upbringing Aussies have had, or is it something else?

    Non-EV owners can speculate all you want, however our family of 4 has been living with only an EV and a PHEV in our garage for the past 3 years, and the combined cost for both EV was < $60k which was no more than equivalent ICE vehicles. The bottom line is that our daughter now has her P's and did all her learner driving in EV, only once doing a free "keys 2 drive" lesson in an instructors ICE vehicle. Afterwards I asked her how it was driving an ICE for the first time. She said she couldn't believe it, you put your foot down and it just makes a big noise, and then a second later starts to move. Infact the instructor commented that it nearly caused her to crash at a round about.
    ICE addicts just don't get it, however the next generation will wonder why we poured dinosaur juice in those old fashioned stinkers when plugging it in is so much more convenient.

    • Cusack on 12/04/2018 - 19:06
      +1

      I wish I could up vote this more :)

    • saltypete on 14/04/2018 - 09:15

      ICE addicts! I love that. It sums up a lot of the comments here. Even the companies we all buy fuel from are investing in electricity generation with alternatives to hydrocarbons. ICE cars are old technology that we are stuck with for the couple of years now until decent alternatives being developed now hit the market. Every time I see some car advertised on tv with 7 years warranty I think how bad I'd feel five years in owning a valueless dinosaur.
      I am sure that similar talk went on when wristwatches came in. I own an old pocket watch but wouldn't want to use it on a daily basis.
      Unless I had a particular need, or it was a business expense I an not well off enough to lay good money down on the current offering that will be seen for the dinosaurs that they are in five years or so.
      My advice is DONT BUY unless you have to. If sales drop the auto retailers will squeal like pigs to the govt and all sorts of changes will happen to infrastructure like chargers, taxes etc.
      DONT BUY ICE

      • whooah1979 on 14/04/2018 - 09:41

        Every time I see some car advertised on tv with 7 years warranty I think how bad I'd feel five years in owning a valueless dinosaur.

        It would take about 20 years of solid ev sales to replace the current fleet of ice vehicles.

        • saltypete on 14/04/2018 - 11:21

          20 years, sounds about right. So the pattern of change over means that at least 25%, more like 33% (changeover rate is likely non linear) in 5 years. Take out special use, eg towing. So a pretty substantial portion of products that are modern EVs with lower running costs, better and safer to drive. My HoldMercToyHyundai is looking a bit like a dinosaur- with 2 years to run on my warranty.
          It is a free country, but I wouldn't be sending any hard earned to the current product if I have any way to avoid it..
          Give it 3 years and you will be able to buy some nice second hand ICE cars at a great pricey if that is what you really, really want.

  • newsynthetic on 11/04/2018 - 13:53

    Is It Time to Buy an Electric Vehicle? Probably not for most people in the current present. I don't see becoming mainstream until 2025-2030. EV is rapidly improving but still, it's not enough. Price is still costly, Infrastructure is not enough (especially the superchargers in Australia), Its still in beta test (Parts are difficult/expensive, quality may not be on par). But still, I believe it the inevitable future to change to EV because productions will improve.

    • affable on 11/04/2018 - 15:45

      So much misinformation!

      You do realise over 50% of new car sales in Norway last year were EV? There is no reason that couldn't be the case here in Australia given the same government manipulation of their price (I don't agree with government manipulation, however EV are not "beta test" as that statistic proves). https://electrek.co/2018/01/03/electric-car-market-share-nor…

      I have been driving a 7 year old production EV (ie not a conversion) which cost only $14k for 3 1/2 years now, over 70,000km hardly beta test?
      EV do not need any infrastructure as people with a garage already have a powerpoint in there. Full tank of fuel every day, ICE addicts just don't get the simplicity of EV.

      • newsynthetic on 11/04/2018 - 16:58

        It's not really misinformation, maybe that "beta test" is a bit exaggerated but it doesn't stay away from the fact it's still early. Doesn't The lack of government manipulation support it's too early to get an EV, especially when "ICE addicts" get their fuel subsidise. If you have money, have special offers or have better infrastructure near you sure. I'm just speaking in term of an ozbargain type of view and it's better to wait to find a better deal.

        • affable on 11/04/2018 - 17:02

          My $14k EV is saving me $2k per year, ie FREE after 7 years and after that it starts EARNING me money, compared to the ICE it replaced. How is that not a bargain?

          What infrastructure do you need? A standard powerpoint in our garage is all we have used for over 3 years now.

        • Euphemistic on 11/04/2018 - 19:55
          +1

          @affable: earning you money is probably stretching it a bit. It’s either free motoring or a continued saving. After all, it isn’t an $80k high yield investment.

        • beyondtool on 11/04/2018 - 23:07

          @Euphemistic: Uber?

  • bchliu on 11/04/2018 - 18:04

    Jesus.. What sort of poll is this? You have seven options - SIX "yes" with ONE "no".

    • pegaxs on 11/04/2018 - 20:04

      No requirement for more NO options. It’s pointless. My post was asking about what is stopping people from buying them now. I wanted to know a breakdown of what was the common stumbling blocks to EV ownership.

      If you are never going to buy one, then NO is the only option I needed to know. I don’t need to know your reason for no as there is no stumbling block if you never plan on owning one.

      And as a general breakdown, there was only one YES option. One “already own” and 4 yes, but! Options.

      So, what are your ideas on what the poll questions should have been?

      • bchliu on 11/04/2018 - 21:07

        Actually there are legitimate alternatives to EV's such as Hydrogen or bio-diesel based fuels. It is not just a YES/YES/YES/YES/YES/no/YES answer set.

        Arguably, you are not doing anything other than forcing people to say "YES" in some fashion or another through this type of structure. It's almost pointless to even raise a poll if you were to get people to vote the RUSSIAN way (ie. Vote Putin only).

        • pegaxs on 11/04/2018 - 22:58

          “Yes, but other…”

          Just gonna leave that there…

          It’s more like yes, maybe, maybe, maybe, maybe, no, not applicable

          Over 500 people have voted. They seemed to get it ok… ;) It’s like you did t even read the post and jumped straight to the poll… :D

          Anyway, I’m done. Thanks for replying…

        • affable on 12/04/2018 - 10:19

          @pegaxs:

          Not surprising on a bargain site that over 80% say price is the main stumbling block.
          There is a huge convergence going on right now, like what we saw in the phone/camera/torch/MP3/diary/wristwatch world 10 years ago when the smartphone came along. However not many people have noticed this new TAAS convergence which will probably change our lives far more than the smartphone did. This new convergence even stretches to city planning and the design of our houses and streets.
          The higher price of EV is only an issue if the car is privately owned. Cars are privately owned because people are used to the perceived convenience of being able to jump in their car at a whim. Once there are say 10 TAAS EV per 100 residents sitting in every street (with the aircon running), finding a parking spot at the end of that was perceived to be a "convenient trip" will suddenly not seem so convenient after all. Plus getting the car serviced, new tyres, pinkslip, breakdowns etc all add to the inconvenience of this car ownership scam we have all been brought up on. As will the huge hole in your bank balance car ownership involves, for something you use at most about 10% of the time.

  • cannedhams on 11/04/2018 - 21:02

    I would probably go for a Prius Prime over the Tesla. Occasionally I need to go somewhere where there are no superchargers, plus with Toyota you know you're not buying some flash in the pan.

  • beyondtool on 11/04/2018 - 23:02
    +1

    Forget cars, I'm keen on Harley's new EV bike. https://techcrunch.com/2018/02/22/harley-davidsons-ev-debut-…

  • crazyboy on 11/04/2018 - 23:05

    The electric technology is still not advanced yet. The prices are still high. So maybe wait for few years.
    I am still driving manual petrol car. Tried automatic car for a couple of weeks, but its so boring.
    I know manual is dying in Aus and US, but Europe, UK and India still has more than 80% manuals.

  • lo200 on 12/04/2018 - 02:02
    +1

    Just thought I would share my experience of owning a Tesla as a car enthusiast.

    I love my cars and love my technology, that's why I bought the Tesla model X. I love how quick it is and the cool technology it has and how it can be updated over the cloud to get even newer features.

    There are so many cool features that I wouldn't be able to list them all here but a few convenient things would be like able to turn the air conditioner on from your phone app if the car is parked in the sun. Another awesome feature is the car just opens the door for you when you approach it.

    The Tesla is my daily driver because it is so cheap to run, I have put 14,000km on it since buying it new in December. AGL has a EV power plan and only cost me $1 a day to charge. So that is only $365 a year. It is more convenient to put your car on charge overnight at home than going to a petrol station as it takes 1 second to put it on charge at night and takes 1 second to take it off charge in the morning and if I do drive a lot in a day (which is more than 300km) then I can just go to a super charger near my work and have lunch or a coffee while it charges.

    I love all cars, that's why I still own 4 cars and don't want to sell any of them. I don't buy cars as an investment, I buy them because it's a hobby and a very expensive hobby but I am lucky enough to be able to afford to keep them. One of my other cars is a Mercedes CLS63 AMG, it's fast, loud and luxurious but uses a crazy amount of fuel but I also love it too. I also have a Prado Kakadu which is slow and boring but awesome for my camping and off road trips and I don't have to refuel it for at least 1000km.

    I think anyone who are into cars really need to test drive a Tesla and they will be very suprised with it like I did. I love having a fast and loud car but after owning the Tesla having a fast and silent car is just as good. If a car is just a mode of transport to get you from A to B then a Tesla would just be an overpriced car for you.

    However don't forget Tesla has brought out the Model 3 which is the affordable EV, we won't get it in Australia for at least a year but it is priced at US$35,000. I have ordered 2 for myself, one for me and one to resell as I will be one of the first to get it in Australia. Maybe you can say I am Brodening it but I could only afford 2 not 100 and I probably won't sell at a profit if it goes to a friend or family member.

  • Tuftsdude on 12/04/2018 - 11:05

    Lack of charge stations. Go to Sweden and you'll see them everywhere.. here, not so much.

    Then there's the price factor after that.

    • affable on 15/04/2018 - 12:31

      If you have a PowerPoint at your house, you won't need a charge station very often, if at all. In 3.5 years and 45,000km of driving a 100km range EV, I've charged it away from home once. That was only to meet up with other EV owners. ICE addicts just don't get it that you have a petrol station in your garage and a full tank every day with an ev.

  • syousef on 12/04/2018 - 17:18
    -1

    Where's the option for "Not yet"?

    • pegaxs on 12/04/2018 - 18:07

      "Yes, but…"

      There are 4 options up there for "yes, but not right now, due to…" Feel free to pick "Yes, but other" and let us know why you wouldn't buy one now if price, range or charge time are not the reasons you have. I'm Keen to know what other reasons people have outside the normal reasons.

      • syousef on 12/04/2018 - 18:13
        -1

        "Yes, but…" technology isn't ready for prime time on our spread out continent.
        Or at least
        "Yes, but other".

        None of the current options fit my reasons (plural!) at all.

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