Vote for The Less Weird Gender-Neutral Name

usherer on 16/12/2017 - 12:12
Last edited 17/12/2017 - 10:32 by 1 other user

I'm applying for jobs in editing, and have come to see that my Asian name would be an obstacle, despite having over ten years of experience in it (albeit having worked in international/British/American organisations, having worked in the UK before, and using English for work all my life).

I used to go by a nickname at my workplace, and see that it's no longer sufficient to do so. My research shows that male, Anglo Saxon names tend to have greater success to get past the first stage, so I am looking for a gender-neutral first name to do that.

I have shortlisted some names and hope you can help identify, using the lens of an Anglo Saxon recruiter, the most ideal one(s), the one that would made you go (in the first 10 secs), "Here is a name I have a soft spot for, belongs to someone who has a good command of the language, and I really want to have a look at their resume".

My preference is for 'Alexi' but I see that some people view it as Russian/Greek, which I have no problem with. However the point of my exercise is, I don't want problems from recruiters and HR.

I am also researching how to modify my last name (Ong).

Thanks!

Poll Options

  • 32
    Alexi
  • 224
    Alexandra
Education & Work

Comments

      • Noblejoker on 17/12/2017 - 12:01
        +2

        Went to Uni with a decent guy called Richard Richards
        Some called him 'Double Dick' but he was a big dude so no real mock
        Seriously though - parents!

      • anastasiastarz on 17/12/2017 - 21:02

        I swear that's from a movie, 'What Happens in Vegas' I think.

      • joelmuzz on 19/12/2017 - 20:53

        Known a Richard Dong and Richard Chua.
        Dick Dong, Dick Chewer. They choose it themselves.
        Dick does not work with a lot of Asian surnames.

    • lousy on 18/12/2017 - 10:15

      I also like the surname being the same … no need to completely change it all ? Also lots of people marry into other surnames ?

      • usherer on 18/12/2017 - 10:40

        My partner is from an ethnicity that is viewed even 'lower' than mine. People here associate his country with massages and prostitution.

        • Findo on 18/12/2017 - 19:18

          Pls tell what country. Sounds like a great holiday destination for a single young man like me.

    • Save Medicare on 19/12/2017 - 10:59
      +1

      Baulko? Met that kid once on a train

      • Findo on 19/12/2017 - 15:45

        Yeah baulko

  • NancyCat on 16/12/2017 - 13:23
    +3

    I don't want problems from recruiters and HR

    There will be problems, because your new name won't match with your previous employment record or work related qualification documents (e.g. university transcript). The last thing you want is the recruiter/potential employer call your old employer for a reference, and they say they don't know any Alex/Alexi.

    And as previously mentioned by others, there could also be problem with payroll/superannuation.

    • xoom on 16/12/2017 - 13:51

      My boss had this problem. He obviously had to put his legal name in all his HR documents. So whenever he answers the phone with his chosen anglo name he has to explain hiself everytime that thats him.

    • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 19:51

      So apparently, you can write in your resume, "used to be known as OldName". And as per comment below, I can ensure my referees know my latest name!

      • NancyCat on 16/12/2017 - 20:19
        +7

        So in your resume, you'll have Name: Alexi Smith (used to be known as Maylee Ong)… then what's the point to have a new name to 'disguise' your identity? 'Maylee Ong' would be a dead giveaway.

        • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 20:24

          The only real changes at this point would only just be 'Alexi' in the email address and headline of my resume. I'll insert the old name further down in the resume. My main goal for now is just not to have my resume binned with minute they see a "Maylee Ong".

        • EyyBanane on 18/12/2017 - 02:06
          +2

          @usherer: If it were me, I’d bin a resume if I see such a comment. Obviously an act of disguise and lack of respect to one’s heritage.

  • thepigs on 16/12/2017 - 13:36
    +31

    interesting that no one has commented that NOT changing your name is fine.

    • xoom on 16/12/2017 - 13:52
      +3

      Was going to vote for that but alas no option.

      • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 19:59
        +6

        That's because I've already decided I will change my name.

        I've read several quantitative studies and anecdotal experiences, and have concluded this is the best way to do it. I'll list a few salient factors:
        - Australian-born Chinese are getting discriminated even though they are effectively Australian. This means, even though they have the 'right' schools, accent and exposure to Aussie society, their names have been stumbling blocks.
        - Studies and anecdotes show that resumes with Anglo Saxon names have a greater chance of callback compared to the exact same resumes with ethnic names.
        - In the above examples, the applicants were applying for jobs which are not reliant on high levels of English proficiency e.g. in HR, IT, though a good command of the language is still important. I am applying for editing/writing roles where knowledge of apostrophe, semi-colon etc is essential.

        I just want to reduce the number of possible obstacles standing in my way, considering how hard it is to get jobs in this economy.

        • lord henry on 17/12/2017 - 01:39
          +2

          If your surname is the same, won't it still be obvious?
          I imagine it only really works if your entire name is anglo.

        • kyoba on 17/12/2017 - 07:31

          This may be true for other countries, but it's not really the case here in australia. Times are changing. Smart employers no longer risk the wasted opportunities by turning down a good resume. They may already have someone in mind and if that's the case, where they believe strongly about that 'vision' or ideal then you're not really going to get hired anyway.

          If you see a white-washed office, in this day and age, in australia, then something is wrong there (Unless you're in the sticks maybe… but generally if it's a well respected office, they're going to have talent, and talent comes in the form of all races).

          What i find troubling is the amount of shit people put on their resumes. There's some real bullshitters out there nowadays. E.g. if i see someone who's got bucket loads of qualifications/certifications, it really makes you think whether they're there to do a job or just try to load themselves up with nice words on a resume (if they even tried) but most of this comes undone during the interview but it's just a complete load time wasted.

        • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 08:40
          +7

          @kyoba:
          Australia has a number of oddities that of late, I've come to analyse as really trying to filter out foreign backgrounds. For instance, there is a huge emphasis, implicit and explicit, on "local experience". Recruiters justify it as assessing candidates can fit into the company culture. However, I've never come across that mindset when my friends (Asian, Spanish, Eastern European) and I were applying for jobs in London. Which was easy. Same thing goes for fluency in English/ Anglicised names, which recruiters and workers say are essential for a job in an English-speaking country and to reflect assimilation. I did not encounter all these in London. (though I do wonder if my success rate could have been higher with an English name). Granted, London is not a country, but it's a job market too, and a very bustling one where you have tonnes of resumes, including from people who seek sponsorship and are willing to write all kinds of crap.

          The feather in the cap is that everyone knows Australia has a Skilled Migration Scheme. Employers should all the more be prepared for non-local experience or at least, ethnic names. Going by some hirers' comments on forums (perhaps the only way I can find out what really goes on in their minds), these things signal that the candidate might not have assimilated/ don't have relevant knowledge of the culture/ may be dodgy.

          Hence, it feels that the recruitment process is more meritorious in London than in Australia. This is just an opinion though.

          As mentioned above and below, there is plenty of research and anecdotal evidence that a simple name change to a resume changes outcomes dramatically in Australia.

        • asianbargain on 17/12/2017 - 09:13
          +3

          It is sad but true. White wash, no matter what people disagree, it is still exist and well.

        • iamnotintheuk on 17/12/2017 - 14:32
          +1

          can you please share some of your research? thanks

        • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 19:29
          +1

          @iamnotintheuk:
          RE: local experience issue -
          https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/hindi/en/audiotrack/why-…

          https://www.sbs.com.au/yourlanguage/hindi/en/article/2016/04…

          Also, if you scroll all the way down this thread, one commentator talks about how all job experiences are unimportant if one doesn't have Australian experience. Such attitudes have been normalised and justify differential treatment towards foreign job applicants, such that it's not even considered as discrimination, as evident from these news articles.

          RE: whitewashing of names changing outcomes - see comment further below. I've listed links and quotes.

        • lousy on 18/12/2017 - 10:18

          @asianbargain:

          Yes and from a recruiter perspective I have seen numerous very poorly written, irrelevant resumes, which like it or not all come from foreign sources - it can be better to immediately distance yourself by association

        • usherer on 18/12/2017 - 10:58

          @lousy: Hi, @lousy, I'm thinking of keeping my last name. Any tips, based on the resumes you've handled, on how I can work around my last name?

          I've thought of a couple of things I can put on the first page so my resume won't be chucked immediately. Would these work?
          - Include residency status on the first page/ in the headline
          - Include work experience from the UK in 'Summary/ Profile'

        • aerom on 18/12/2017 - 11:17
          +1

          @usherer:
          All these biases and 'tendencies' are well documented in advertising and social psychology. A simple change of pattern or word or picture can score a big plus in advertising and names have the same effect ($9.99, "starting from" etc…). However objective recruiters/HR portray themselves to be, human irrationality is real and its ignorance can be a big hurdle for all of us. What OP is trying to do is using this bias to his/her own benefit.

        • bargaino on 18/12/2017 - 13:28
          +1

          @lord henry:

          No, Richard Wong is more likely to get past the first screening than Wong Wei.

    • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2017 - 14:09
      -4

      Not everybody tries to turn simple, innocent choices into judgy political soapboxes.

      Do we need inclusivity re-education?

      • thepigs on 16/12/2017 - 18:58
        +2

        no, you do.

        • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2017 - 19:11
          -4

          Let me digest your lesson in passive aggressive entitlement above, first. There's a lot to process. Don't you just hate it when people don't not?

  • Ryanek on 16/12/2017 - 14:28
    +10

    I wouldn't want to work at a place that judges people based on their name.

    • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 20:00
      +38

      Me too. But I've learnt that pride and a sense of equality cannot pay for a mortgage.

  • ihbh on 16/12/2017 - 14:42
    +4

    How about changing your surname to Long?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_(surname)

    • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 20:03

      Interesting!! My grandmother was a "Long", which is reallllly cool in Chinese - it means "dragon". She was effectively a "dragon lady" then! Alas, antiquated traditions (on women taking on their husband's last name) means I have a commonplace surname now. I haven't met a single "Long" in my life, so the surname is, in a way, dying out.

      • Munki on 17/12/2017 - 19:34
        +2

        Sorry what? Traditionally speaking, Chinese women do not change their surnames when getting married. They retain it. The children are the ones who inherit the father's surname.

        • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 19:37

          Oops, sorry. I was in the flow last night, pounding out answers. Wrongly, apparently!

  • tsunamisurfer on 16/12/2017 - 14:52
    +11

    To have a preferred first name is fine. Even Maylee is fine. I don't see that being an inhibitor for job prospects, if it was long and un-pronouncable with ease then yeah.

    Your surname is 王.

    Embrace your hokkien heritage, don't let it go.

    • Munki on 17/12/2017 - 19:35
      +1

      Yeah if anything you should change it to Wang and just be all up in their faces with your Wang.

    • iSamurai on 18/12/2017 - 09:11
      +1

      Also, I've heard many people of Wang/Wong/Ong "王" translate their surname literally to King. King is a common surname in English. Maylee King sounds neutral enough.

      • usherer on 18/12/2017 - 10:17

        Translating it into 'King' is very clever! Thanks :)

  • Quantumcat on 16/12/2017 - 15:30
    +13

    I don't see what's wrong with Maylee, it's pretty and not at all hard to pronounce

    • Aniseed Steed on 16/12/2017 - 17:15
      +4

      Australians will take it upon themselves to call you "May".

      • lousy on 18/12/2017 - 10:20

        Just change it to May

        • Aniseed Steed on 18/12/2017 - 11:52

          No - it was a name that was given to me at birth and I refuse to change it for anyone. Besides the name loses its meaning when you remove the second character. It's akin to changing a name like "Xiaolong" to "Xiao".

        • usherer on 18/12/2017 - 18:19

          @RoughMetaphors: I think a preferred name (not changed legally) close to the birthname is what @lousy meant.

          Changing from Xiaolong (Little Dragon) to Xiao (Little) would be horrifying!

        • lousy on 19/12/2017 - 09:50

          @usherer:

          Agree just as a name you informally use to introduce yourself etc

        • simulacrum on 19/12/2017 - 10:04
          +1

          @usherer: If I knew someone called xiaolong, their nickname would instantly become xiaolongbao

    • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 20:03
      +2

      That was just an example. My real name has a mix of consonants that is tricky, even for Chinese who do not speak Mandarin.

      • anastasiastarz on 17/12/2017 - 21:10

        May it is then! Please tell us you have a short version of your name in brackets next to your name.

        • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 21:14

          Maylee is just an example.

          I've been using shortened form of my name at work and think I have to really change it now.

          Some names that are like mine, distinctively Chinese, hard to pronounce or shorten:
          Ma Yun
          Liu Dehua
          Xi Jinping
          Zhang Ziyi
          Luo Zhixiang

        • anastasiastarz on 17/12/2017 - 21:24

          @usherer: O.O Eek, can't say I have any idea how to say any of those names. I'm curious, at school when there was a long pause during role call, did you know that was you? :P

        • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 21:47

          @anastasiastarz: I studied in my home country. The teachers came from a mix of backgrounds so only about 10 percent got it right anyway. As for the rest of the time, at least they tried to get the first sound right. I had a teacher who managed to get my name by the third term. After school holidays, she forgot how to pronounce it, and just gave up. Lol

          This continued for the first few years of work until creative Filipino colleagues, with their fascinating nickname culture, gave me one based on my name! It's cute and doesn't look like any English name, hence my current dilemma.

          Btw, the first name belongs to CEO of Alibaba, Jack Ma. And you might know Zhang Ziyi, who starred in Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon, which was a hit in the West.

        • anastasiastarz on 17/12/2017 - 22:42
          +1

          @usherer:

          "I had a teacher who managed to get my name by the third term. After school holidays, she forgot how to pronounce it, and just gave up. Lol" - I know that feeling! My name is designed in a way that certain people (asians whose first language isn't english) will have great difficulty pronouncing. I had a teacher say it about 6 times, got it right once then lost it again next try. XD

        • Carmen Sandiego on 19/12/2017 - 11:51

          @anastasiastarz:

          I had the same problem honestly.

          The combination of H, Y, and U together seems to overwhelm everyone :/ Somehow, the Y and U gets swapped with W and A most times…(why??)

          Hence why I've basically banned people who aren't Korean (which I am) from pronouncing it. I've added my Western name to basically everything (including my resume) except legal documents and it hasn't caused me any large problems.

          It saves me issues like my university graduation where they said my name wrong. I sighed. My lecturers (some of them who had taught me for a large part of my 5 years there) came up to me later and apologised and commiserated.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2017 - 16:55
    +3

    Pleased to meet you Alex Olsen, just remember that your real name is not actually required until you are filling out forms with HR after you get the position, at which point you let HR know that Alex Olsen is your preferred name but not your legal name, which is not usually a problem.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YkaDSiPrFGs

    • Quantumcat on 16/12/2017 - 17:42
      +5

      Except that it will complicate matters when they call your references (though I guess you could inform the references in advance).

    • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 20:06

      I'm undecided about the last name. It doesn't seem all that legal if I modify it by myself, instead of having a legal name change.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/12/2017 - 01:17
        +3

        it's not illegal. I used to work a big company with a lot of hiring and it was fairly common to have people where their preferred name doesn't match their legal name at all, to the point that some of these people use their legal name so little that they have made mistakes on passport applications etc. because they had forgotten to use their legal name.

        It's common in marriage or from cultural backgrounds where the name is hard to pronounce or doesn't even have an English equivalent.

        There is no law against using an Alias as long as you are not pretending to be someone else or faking IDs. Make sure you give your legal name to the Police if requested also.

        It is quite common in the entertainment industry as Stage Names, or literacy with Nom De Plumes.

        https://www.ag.gov.au/RightsAndProtections/IdentitySecurity/… - Page 6. Right from the Attorney General of Australia (very authoritative source) , completely legit under common law.

        • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 08:50
          +1

          Great resource.

          As the document suggests, "It is to recognise that trust is not an absolute, but a continuum: at one end are interactions where anonymity may be appropriate, while at the other end, interactions that require high levels of trust and confidence in the identity of the person participating in the interaction". What would a company/NGO/govt organisation (where I'm appplying to) think of a person who rocks up to them with a completely different name that can't be found in any documentary records?

        • [Deactivated] on 17/12/2017 - 11:26
          +2

          @usherer: you just let them HR know you have a different legal name once you get the job for Tax/Police Background Check etc but every knows you as your preferred name. it's not a big deal as you think.

  • Diji1 on 16/12/2017 - 17:26
    +4

    have come to see that my Asian name would be an obstacle

    Really? I would have thought the opposite.

    • Aneurism on 16/12/2017 - 19:04
      +2

      Have you considered that the obstacle might be either a poor resume, work history, or perhaps poor spoken english or lack of comprehension during the interview ?

    • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 20:26
      +4

      In editing of English language?

      • [Deactivated] on 17/12/2017 - 07:43
        +3

        I hope you don't go to all of this trouble to change your name only to make spelling or grammatical errors in your resume. Given the type of work you are applying for that would be embarrassing.

        I think a lot of the issues with non-Anglo names isn't so much that they are non-Anglo but it is if they are unpronounceable by an English speaker. Sure, there are some prejudiced (profanity) who don't want to hire anyone they think isn't "Aussie" but there are also people who have to sift through 100s of resumes and don't want to spend time trying to figure out correct pronunciations. Plus, no one likes looking like an idiot botching those pronunciations. You could have an unfamiliar Scandinavian name and, despite being white, receive the same treatment.

        Whatever you decide, I hope it works out for you :)

    • Baghern on 18/12/2017 - 16:19
      +1

      The Asians have known this for decades… 30 years ago as everyone was going to Secondary school, 99% of the Asian westernised their names… their parents told them it would make it easier to get a job in future.

  • Nugs on 16/12/2017 - 19:28
    +1

    George

  • yolohobo on 16/12/2017 - 19:51
    +1

    If your preference is to be called Alexi, I'd go with Alexis as a formal first name.

    It's easily abbreviated to Alexi without making it obvious you chose the name for resume purposes.

  • [Deactivated] on 16/12/2017 - 20:12
    +2

    As per verdant marsupial atop thread tree and others below him.

    Alexandra is distinctly a name for a girl - and a nice name it is, too.

    Unless you were actually a Russian or Greek male, Alexi sounds pretty damn girly and flows quite cutely with your surname - should you decide to keep that.

    You say that actually want something that will appear gender-neutral to all, though.

    Alex, as a name - standalone or as a contraction of Alexandra, has become gender neutral and is not uncommonly heard. I'm surprised that you haven't heard that, of that.

    Maybe I'll leave you to judge as to whether or not a further contraction of Alexandra can be masculine, or feminine -

    She spoils it just a bit at the end, but a beautiful cover, nonetheless

    She's great fun, too. One for OzBargainers with sufficient makeup to sink The Titanic.

    • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 20:21
      +1

      omg. I haven't heard that song in seven years. Someone dear had first introduced that song to me, and hearing it again has brought back so many memories. This Lex doesn't look like a bulldog. lol!

      Would I sound like 'one of those Chinese with odd names' though? 'Lex' isn't common at all amongst Chinese, even amongst Asian Americans/ British Chinese etc when I read the papers. I wonder if it would be odd when in my context. I might be better, but not much, than 'Chlorine Lam', "Nobel Harvard' or 'Bruce Lee'.

      Having said that, a number of Aussie names are pretty new to me e.g. Mia, Isla, Eli, Luca. If an Asian uses these names, I would also consider that rather novel for them.

      It's now down to Alexi and Alex! Thanks for your comments. And the song :(

      • [Deactivated] on 17/12/2017 - 09:36
        +1

        Good morning, Ms. Ong. For that sad memory triggered, an apology for the melancholy song.

        I am reluctant (apparently not quite reluctant enough) to link another song to cheer you up… If that doesn't work, maybe this will?
        :)

        Given that we're talking about names, this girl had one of the worst in pop music history. I also only admit to liking this song, on the internet, and irl to others sworn to secrecy as I do have some street cred to preserve.

        It's a very cute pop song, that you've probably never heard.

        Enjoy, and have a good day!

        Best of luck with the job hunting, irrespective of any appellation alteration.

        :-)

        • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 09:52
          +1

          LOL! I thought I'd got the wrong link! You are a true ozbargainer. BTW, i had quickly scanned the comments, and as a vegetarian, was momentarily stunned by the "animal origin" and "animal extra" mentions.

          And you know what, I have heard of this song at clubs. Is the name that bad?

          By the way, I have a music/dance link to share, seeing that you enjoy your music. I was watching this when you wrote your comment: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kVXU0MgIokw

          Thanks for the well wishes. Enjoy the rest of your weekend!

        • [Deactivated] on 17/12/2017 - 10:18
          +2

          I think that we may have different taste in YouTube videos, and I sincerely hope that Sir Mix-a-Lot received the lion's share of royalties from that Nicki Minaj track!

          Mainly in Europe, but Whigfield did pretty well, despite the choice of that name…

          :)

  • ozhunter on 16/12/2017 - 20:50
    +6

    Alex is unisex.

    Alexandra = girl
    Alexander = boy

    • usherer on 16/12/2017 - 20:52

      yea, my bad. Needed a simple, easy-to-understand title for the post.

  • MessyG on 16/12/2017 - 21:15
    +2

    I like Alex. I would probably write Maylee (Alex) Ong or Alex (Maylee) Ong. Don't love Alexi, it seems incongruous for some reason.

    • BartholemewH on 16/12/2017 - 22:22
      +4

      Seems like a European stripper.

      • MessyG on 16/12/2017 - 22:26

        I have no experience with European stripper names…..good to know?!

      • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 08:51

        Met a French guy with "Alexi" as a name.
        Your response is what I'm trying to avoid from recruiters. So, thanks for that input.

  • sahh on 16/12/2017 - 22:23
    +2

    Whoever is throwing out your resumes need a reality check. I reckon people who learn English as a second language or do not grow up with it have better grammar

    • Findo on 18/12/2017 - 10:18
      +4

      I wouldn’t go that far…

  • UFO on 16/12/2017 - 22:49
    +3

    Two poll answers, one male name, one female name.

    I'm confused on what we are voting on?
    Are you male or female?

    Alexi IS Russian (and male).

    Male: Alexander (comes from Greek background, but common anglo saxon name these days), Zander, Aleksander,

    Female: Alexandra

    Unisex: Alex

    In relation to your last name (ONG), simply adding a letter or two to the front would be easiest and make it less "Asian sounding" (not that I think you should- you should be proud of your Surname, its who you are). Care obviously taken to not add a letter than amplifies Asian heritage (Wong, Dong, Hong etc) :).

    Long
    Strong

    Or to the other side:

    Onger
    Ongstrom
    Ong

    ??

    I get why you think you should change your name, and I can see why an anglo first name would be beneficial, but maybe you don't want to work for a company that doesn't accept you for who you are?

    Go for Alexander mate. Just for the resume and work emails etc. Alexander Ong has a decent ring to it ;).

    • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 08:53

      I'm female.
      Thanks for the vote.
      still trying to decide on whether it looks good on me to write 'Alex Strong' and show up as who I am, with nary a piece of record that states the new name.

      • ProjectZero on 17/12/2017 - 11:54
        +1

        If you plan on changing your last name as well, go with Maxine Power aka Max Power =P

      • UFO on 17/12/2017 - 18:48
        +1

        Thanks for clarification.

        Go for Alexandra. It's nice.

        Don't be fussed with the legalities. The name is simply what you would like to be addressed as at work. Your legal name (payslips etc) is not an issue as long as your employer knows the 'real you' ;).

        Many people of non-English speaking backgrounds have "aussie work names".

  • Name on 16/12/2017 - 22:50
    +11

    Good idea to change your name to Alex. As much as people like to say Australia isn't racist. It is. I had an indigenous name, found it really hard to get an interview. I changed it to Paige. Had an improvement in the amount of interviews I got.

    • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 08:56

      Sorry to hear that. I'm glad you've improved your chances.
      I've been thinking about how isolated Australia is, and how that has affected the culture/society here.
      Anyway, if you, an Australian, can change your name to improve your chances, why not me? It sucks, though!

      • UFO on 17/12/2017 - 14:13
        +3

        Isolated? Racist?

        We are more culturally diverse than pretty much any other country in the world.
        Race is not a bigger deal here than anywhere else. I'm from a non-English speaking background, and I've been to other "1st World Countries" that are far worse than us. It APPEARS bad here because of the media hype and the fact there is nothing else to report on.

        • usherer on 17/12/2017 - 19:22
          +1

          In Europe, borders are so porous that locals do not have to travel with a passport, for instance, a person can commute to work from France to London. The exposure to cultures is far higher in most parts of Europe, for most people, than in Australia. This is why I would consider Australia "isolated", something that has only struck me recently as I was wondering why Africans here are commonly thought to be refugees, whereas that is not the case - at least for London, where I was. Over there, interracial relationships are common, no one bats an eyelid to see African medical practitioners or Carribean professionals, or have an Asian manager etc. It's seldom assumed that non-WASPs can't speak English whereas there is definitely a trend here to think that the new migrant isn't capable of speaking English.

          I put this down to Australia's physical isolation, which means people coming here tend to be students who try to get visas, whereas those who go to Europe (not sure if costs play into the situation, since Australia is expensive too) tend to be more of working professionals. Maybe it's something to do with working visas that London has? Probably it was also due to Hong Kongers being issued British passports. There was great flows of intellectuals between the British colonies and Britain. I've also noticed that locals tend to disparage most local unis, seeing them as degree mills that are relatively cheaper than those in the US and EU, so they have high suspicions of the true worth of the migrants. These are just initial thoughts on the nature of migration to the UK being very different from that of Oz.

          The physical isolation is definitely a thing. The connectivity of Europe is a reason why, despite years of a headstart that Indigenous Australians had in making stone tools, that Europeans could develop tools and end up conquering Australia.

        • UFO on 17/12/2017 - 21:25
          +3

          @usherer:

          I hear what you're saying in regards to cross border freedom in Europe, but I believe there's a much bigger picture you're missing. France to Germany to wherever is relatively free, but the racial mix between all those countries in close proximity isn't as vast as it is here. Australia is a true melting pot of different races. The physical border you speak of was an issue when immigrants in the 60's and 70's came over with an empty suitcase on a long ocean voyage.

          But these days, I think you'll find the sheer variety of races here in Australia is immense compared to the rest of the world.
          The countries and borders in Europe are relatively open, but immigration from all over the world is less prevalent there.
          I'm not saying its non-existent, but its certainly to a far great degree here.

          I love how I can drive through different parts of Sydney and honestly feel like I've 'crossed a border'. Sydney is like no other city in the world in that respect. Even New York and London. Lots and lots of people, but not the massive variety we have here.

          I get the physical aspect of what you are describing, but the immigration of world visitors is different to that.

          All the African nations, the South American nations, all of Asia, Europe, UK, the Indian subcontinent…. all represented here, and in big numbers.
          Europe, for all of its open borders, doesn't have anywhere near the saturation from all those different places.
          That's what makes Australia so unique. I love it.

          Seriously, next time anyone reading this travels overseas… take a good look at those around you in built up areas. Maybe token races here and there, but not like here. No way. We are the shining example of how multiculturalism can work in the world. We cop it in the news, but media need to sell papers… not tell the real truth on how lucky and good we are. Good doesn't sell papers. Fear does.

        • lousy on 18/12/2017 - 10:24
          +1

          It's getting better but definitely encountered lots of racism along the way

        • usherer on 18/12/2017 - 10:25

          @UFO: We need more hard evidence from history to draw our conclusions from, both you and me. One thing that is particularly striking is the White Australia policy, whereas the influx of Britain, though also heavily featured refugees, also leaned heavily towards having immigrants from former colonies going there and never was there a White Britain policy, though there was racism in the same time period.

          Having diverse races in one place, and the lived experiences of those races themselves can be very different.

        • dp1 on 18/12/2017 - 12:29
          +2

          Some cities like Birmingham (where I grew up) definitely had a 'white suburbs' policy and the city is still stratified along those lines 40 years later. It's also not unusual in some suburbs for 2 adjacent public schools to be divided along ethnic lines. My own primary school was 25% afrocarribean 75% Indian subcontinent with 5 Vietnamese and 3 white kids out of 400+.

          One thing that struck me on moving to Australia was that for the first time in my adult life I was not the only non-white person in my social or work environment. I suspect that London is an anomaly within the UK in terms of integration (clumsily worded way of saying I agree with UFO)

        • Baghern on 18/12/2017 - 16:26
          -2

          Other countrie sh't isn't our problem.

          Its called progress, being happy with how things are is what the conservative/racists like to stay on… this is good enough… no need to improve.

          We're not as actively racist… but we're definitely lazy racist.

          I've always said Pauline Hanson was a good thing for Asians, it made people realise they don't want to be associated with… so they actively move from lazy/sub conscious racism.

          Racist jokes use to be common, the excuse was there was no intent… its just a joke… political correctness gone crazy.. you know what, I don't miss racist jokes.

          I saw two people having an agro on the street one is ethnic, they're swearing each other and are close to a punch up… its funny not to hear a racist word in the entire scenario

        • usherer on 18/12/2017 - 18:24

          @UFO: BTW, from the research by Booth et. al: "…if they are to get as many interviews as an applicant with an Anglo name, Chinese applicants must put in 57 percent more applications in Brisbane, but 92 percent more applications in Sydney." (https://www.econstor.eu/bitstream/10419/36878/1/626591651.pd…)

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