This was posted 7 years 14 days ago, and might be an out-dated deal.

Related
  • expired

NVIDIA SHIELD TV Streaming Media Player [2017] with Remote and Game Controller $242 ($185.92 USD) Shipped @ Amazon

900
NVIDIA SHIELD TV Streaming Media Player [2017] with Remote and Game Controller $242 ($185.92 USD) Shipped @ AmazonAffiliate
Go to Deal
Cashback
easternculture on 08/11/2017 - 19:34 amazon.com (1998 clicks)
Last edited 08/11/2017 - 19:42 by 1 other user
This post contains affiliate links. OzBargain might earn commissions when you click through and make purchases. Please see this page for more information.

Nice price drop for this and cheapest ever on Camel X 3. Cheaper than this deal posted 2.5 months ago

Includes the controller and the remote

You also get FREE 3 months YouTube red to sweeten up the deal according to the Amazon listing

Get YouTube Red for 3 months free – $29.97 in value. Explore uninterrupted music, ad-free videos, and exclusive original movies and shows from your favorite YouTube creators. Limited-time offer ends 12/31.

Enjoy

Price History at C CamelCamelCamel.
Computing Media Player Nvidia Android

Related Stores

Amazon US
Amazon US

closed Comments

  • Andoes on 08/11/2017 - 19:36

    Will this play pubg at 100 frames? /s

    • toliman on 09/11/2017 - 02:44
      +1

      it will stream your PC running PubG at 1080p, 20-25fps, to 50-60fps on the TV with GameStream.

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IR6GBWqNWF8

      FWIU The mpeg4 encoder's a bit rough but it will smooth out/create some vsync lag at 1080p. The encoder does a good job, but it comes down to bandwidth more often than it comes down to game FPS.

      1080p@30 will likely need a direct connection via ethernet unless you have awesome wifi.

  • jimbler on 08/11/2017 - 19:39
    -1

    How do you get it for that price? It comes to $252 after delivery for me.

    • easternculture on 08/11/2017 - 19:41

      Turn off currency converter and pay with a card that does not charge a transaction fee

    • Captain Kremmen on 08/11/2017 - 19:42

      I don't normally let Amazon do the US to AU conversion.

  • smarter_fool on 08/11/2017 - 19:39
    +1

    Wondering if this will get any cheaper when Amazon opens for business (hopefully by end of this month).

    • PVA on 08/11/2017 - 20:32
      +5

      I reckon Amazon Australia with be like Costco Australia, only some things will be a deal, most will be not much different than what prices here are now.

      • [Deactivated] on 08/11/2017 - 20:56
        +2

        And will probably charge a membership fee to access cheap deals.

        • ChiefAJ on 08/11/2017 - 21:59
          +3

          Amazon Prime.

      • Zorlin on 08/11/2017 - 20:58
        +3

        If Amazon can afford to dominate, they will dominate. I don't see the point of them half-assing it and not being cheaper than competitors.

    • ggbhai on 08/11/2017 - 22:30
      +3

      I don't think Amazon Australia will be able to sell it here directly as Nvidia hasn't opened it to the Australian Market yet, AFAIK

  • SpaceNinja on 08/11/2017 - 19:42
    +1

    Whats the difference in shield and shield pro ?

    • easternculture on 08/11/2017 - 19:43
      -5

      Probably ram and CPU 🤔

    • Max999 on 08/11/2017 - 19:56
      +10

      Pro has an SD card slot, also the remote is rechargeable via USB.

      Also 500gb shhd on Pro compare to 16gb ssd.

      • lplau on 08/11/2017 - 20:22
        -1

        both versions have rechargable remote via usb. only difference is hdd size.

        • jztilly on 08/11/2017 - 20:49
          +5

          negative. the pro version remote can be charged via USB and has a 3.5mm socket. the standard shield has a cell battery

        • willy000 on 09/11/2017 - 01:19
          -2

          @ideasman:

          Both come with the same rechargeable remote.

        • jztilly on 09/11/2017 - 07:00
          +2

          @willy000:

          no they do not. i just got a 2017 shield "non pro" and the remote control cannot be charged. the game controller can, the remote control cannot. can you post a picture of the base of your remote control? does it have micro USB port? mine doesn't

        • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/11/2017 - 08:45

          ideasman is correct. 2017 Shield "non pro" has CR2032 batteries only.

        • willy000 on 10/11/2017 - 13:30

          @ideasman:

          Sorry wasn't aware they changed it from the old version as the old versions came with the same remote.

    • zorrt on 08/11/2017 - 20:18
      +2

      Most notable difference is the hdd. You can always plug in an external hdd if you really need storage eg. running plex server. 500gb won't get you very far to begin with.

    • kirt on 08/11/2017 - 20:40

      From memory, the non-Pro does not have an IR receiver.

    • LordPanda on 08/11/2017 - 21:55
      +1

      Pro also has an IR receiver so you can use IR remotes such as the Harmony 650.

  • Max999 on 08/11/2017 - 19:46
    +7

    Normally I wouldn't use the word 'invest' in tech products.

    But hey this is the best piece tech I ever invested in for its price.

    Can't live without it in my living room!

    • Ulysses31 on 08/11/2017 - 20:57

      +Vote?

    • Pricebeat on 08/11/2017 - 20:58

      Any reason you would say that? How is it better than say Xiaomi mi tv apart from being able to play games?

      • Max999 on 08/11/2017 - 21:06

        Other than being able to play games, it has literally no stuttering at all when u run most streaming apps.

        Xiaomi i haven't used it myself, i remember seeing a few complaints on Reddit about sluggish performance in certain apps especially streaming 4k.

        • Pricebeat on 08/11/2017 - 21:09

          I haven’t had any problems with mi box so far and I got it for $70 delivered in comparison to this for $200+

        • x853 on 09/11/2017 - 06:13
          +1

          How does it compare to the steam link? I have one at home but it is limited to 60fps at 1080p - and is very unreliable on wifi. I have one of those Ethernet via PowerPoint still doesn't work that fantastic. Is this a stepup or does it suffer the same issues?

        • Max999 on 09/11/2017 - 07:33

          @x853:

          I have both, using Ethernet over PowerPoint as well. Both work well with the setup.

          Wi-fi will cause plenty of dropouts during streaming on both.

          I believe your main issues is with your network. Upgrading your powerline adapter to homeplug v2 may help, if u are using older and lower end models.

          This is the one I'm currently using: http://www.tp-link.com.au/products/details/cat-18_TL-PA8010P…

          Shield is capable of 4k gaming but i don't have a 4k tv or 1080 card to try out.

        • x853 on 09/11/2017 - 09:32

          @ryangoal: thanks for the response - how do I know if it is the wiring in my house or the powerline adaptor I am using.

          https://www.wireless1.com.au/d-link-dhp-p309av-powerline-av5…

          No good?

        • Max999 on 09/11/2017 - 10:24

          @x853: I used the same model in your link and they didn't work that well, having stutter/cut off.

          See the one in your link is AV500, which means data transfer rates of up to 500Mbps, whereas mine is AV1200 for 1200Mbps.

          I would definitely buy higher end models from shops that are easy to return/refund if it doesn't work for you.

        • Kontiki on 09/11/2017 - 10:43

          @ryangoal:

          Yeah buy the fastest powerline adaptor available. Their advertised speeds are bogus anyways. 500mbs will probably translate to a more realistic 100mbs. Sometimes their chipsets don’t even support the advertised speeds – I found this out the hard way.

        • x853 on 09/11/2017 - 11:16

          @Kontiki: thank you - I might upgrade it when I see a good deal then.

          It is a real shame as I bought this one through a buy one get one free promotion. So now I have two crappy powerline adaptor sets.

        • Diji1 on 19/11/2017 - 21:26

          it has literally no stuttering at all when u run most streaming apps.

          That's really not that much of an achievement lmao.

      • hypie on 08/11/2017 - 21:07

        4K HDR I think?

        • Pricebeat on 08/11/2017 - 21:08

          Also available on Mi box

        • FeZZa21 on 09/11/2017 - 10:28
          +1

          @Jimmy007:
          it does 4K but not HDR unless you're on the beta firmware. which itself comes with its own bugs/non working features.

          Shield also supports auto switching of 50p/24p switching, and most importantly, the Shield is updated regularly, my mi box hasn't seen an update since I bought it many months ago and still stuck on Android 6.0.

      • ggbhai on 08/11/2017 - 23:10

        Big difference in performance. I have a shield (2015) and I suggested a friend to get the Xiaomi Mi TV box mainly due to its price, and also coz he is not a heavy user. I configured it for him so had a brief play with it, the performance is garbage compared to Shield. Even just navigating through menu and general UI options feels sluggish on the Mi Box. And if you are thinking of Kodi and using GUI heavy builds, well, good luck. In comparison, Shield is a beast. Also, in my brief run, I found Mi box's wifi to be noticeably slow. So yea, if you have the cash for it, Shield is really a good investment. If you have friends over for a movie night and trying to browse through movies to watch, and if this thing takes ages to load, that is not a good experience. And to top that, if you have friends with zero patience….. :|

        • SmartCover on 08/11/2017 - 23:26
          +1

          If it’s a “Netflix” friend they might decide to ditch choosing a movie and go straight to the bedroom?

        • ggbhai on 08/11/2017 - 23:29
          +3

          @SmartCover: In that case I highly suggest the Mi Box.. well worth the price! ;)

        • Max999 on 09/11/2017 - 10:27
          +1

          @SmartCover: damn, heavy price to pay for being a gadget nerd. Been doing it wrong all these years.

      • SuperC on 09/11/2017 - 07:45

        I've used both with streaming 1080p movies from my server, Xiaomi ran well, but did need to be restarted every now and again if there was a new movie that needed to found in Kodi. Shield automatically rescanned the library with zero issues.

  • elcheapodeniro on 08/11/2017 - 20:07

    Great price and pretty awesome rig. Had mine 9 months and use it daily.

    Almost funny that it can also be a plex media server to share videos from NAS/usb HDD to your Chromecast etc around the house.

    The google assistant finally got better with voice control ie play pause etc. But play X song on youtube works great also.

    • wfdTamar on 08/11/2017 - 20:40

      I got one to see if it was better than the Roku for streaming, but I much prefer the simplicity of the Roku. Maybe if you would use the other features it might show it's worth.

  • Vietsoldier on 08/11/2017 - 20:15

    For $240 it's still too expensive for Android TV. I'm considering the Foxtel now box which will go on sale from Friday, which is android tv and comes with a Inbuilt TV tuner for $99 (better deal than even a Mi Box). Check details about it here: https://www.lifehacker.com.au/2017/11/foxtel-now-box-specifi…

    • easternculture on 08/11/2017 - 20:18
      -2

      It's also a gaming console

      • Vietsoldier on 08/11/2017 - 20:27
        +2

        I get that but I believe most ppl buy shields for the TV streaming aspect. If you're into gaming you're better off with an xbox or ps4 and they also have TV streaming capabilities. I've been wanting the Nvidia shield myself but given competing options, $240 is too expensive. My 2 cents anyway.

        • easternculture on 08/11/2017 - 20:29

          I'll be getting that Foxtel box and selling my chromcast ultra

          Cheers for the info

        • zerog101 on 08/11/2017 - 20:40
          +3

          @easternculture: No Netflix on foxtel now box which is a killer for me

        • easternculture on 08/11/2017 - 20:50
          -1

          @zerog101:

          You won't find Netflix on Foxtel Now Box, but the inclusion of Google Chromecast means you can still access the app - and watch your favourite Netflix shows - on your TV through the device.

        • Vietsoldier on 08/11/2017 - 20:54

          @zerog101:

          Given its android tv hopefully we'll be able to side load the app, however best wait till Friday and someone can confirm.

        • t3chshopper on 08/11/2017 - 20:58
          +2

          @Vietsoldier: if sideloading Netflix, you don't normally get anything better than SD streams. It has to be one of their few approved devices.

        • x853 on 08/11/2017 - 21:38
          -1

          WTF are you on about - in what world would a console be better than a gaming PC?

          The only issue would be the stability of the stream (steamlink works ok but can have lag).

        • Vietsoldier on 08/11/2017 - 22:01

          @x853: so you're making a point to instead go out and buy a gaming PC?

        • x853 on 08/11/2017 - 23:09

          @Vietsoldier:

          I dispute your notion that if gaming was the goal the PS4 or Xbox would be a better purchase.

          the shield can stream Steam via big picture - so it should be a companion to an existing rig.

          That being said - if gaming is a hobby you enjoy, and want to experience it in the best way possible, and have the disposable income - then yes I would recommend building a gaming PC.

          No console could compete with my 1080ti ultrawide setup

        • ggbhai on 08/11/2017 - 23:53
          +1

          @x853: good job turning a fair discussion into all about you. Now can you please stay in context? No one asked for a console vs pc war here.

          @Vietsoldier: I agree, most buy Shield for the tv streaming and media capabilities. Gaming is a plus. For mainly gaming, you are better off with an xbox or ps4 or a "gaming pc". Although with a gaming pc, you are now in a general purpose territory for tv and media content. Its not in the same league as others, so should be left out of such comparisons.

          No netflix is a big no for me too. Btw do you have to be an active foxtel customer to keep running that box?

        • x853 on 09/11/2017 - 05:45
          -2

          @sud33p: the item in question is for a device that is used to stream PC games onto the TV. Playing PC games on TV is the items primary purpose. It is manufactured by a freakin GPU manufacturer FFS.

          Your discussion is the equivalent of people discussing the merits of a book based on its ability to prop up a loose table leg. Then deciding that the yellow pages is a better book then catcher in the Rye, due to its table holding prowess. Sure a book can be used for a secondary function, but it is an idiotic way to determine the products worth.

          So, what I said was ontopic. Secondly I merely corrected the erroneous statement that an Xbox or PS4 would be superior for gaming, and that this item should only be compared to other android boxes as the gaming functionality is secondary to the tv streaming capabilities. Which is false.

          So my comments were appropriate to the post I replied to.

        • Diji1 on 19/11/2017 - 21:31

          @x853: >the item in question is for a device that is used to stream PC games onto the TV. Playing PC games on TV is the items primary purpose

          OK so in that case it's a dumb purchase because the Steam Link exists and costs 3 times less. And it's not locked to Nvidia.

        • x853 on 19/11/2017 - 22:21

          @Diji1: sure you can compare the steam link to it - where did I say otherwise?

          My point was that it would be foolish to treat this device as only a TV streaming device, and my main point was that gamers would not be better served buying a PS4 or xbox

    • urbancartel on 08/11/2017 - 20:29
      +3

      yeah but…

      A Foxtel Now account is required to set up and access the box and a Foxtel Now subscription is required to watch Foxtel content.

      • easternculture on 08/11/2017 - 20:30
        -1

        Get a free 2 week trial and set up the box

        • urbancartel on 08/11/2017 - 20:32
          +1

          Yeah maybe - I just ordered your deal as i've been after a better option than the Apple Mac Mini i've got plugged into the TV at the moment for streaming movies/tv shows…

          No Netflix on the Foxtel box doesn't sound great!

      • sav11 on 20/11/2017 - 17:16

        You can probably just create and use a free account to set up and use the box. I'm guessing you only need the subscription to access that content via the Foxtel Now app.

    • t3chshopper on 08/11/2017 - 20:57
      +1

      No Netflix on the Foxtel now box is a dealbreaker for me. Mi box all the way.

      • Xizor on 08/11/2017 - 22:09

        Cast from phone app just like for Chromecast.5 seconds done.

        • t3chshopper on 08/11/2017 - 22:21

          Not kid-friendly like a built-in remote control friendly app. My kids use it daily.

        • Xizor on 09/11/2017 - 08:42
          +2

          @t3chshopper: Fare enough. Congratulations are probably in order for keeping your kids off the mobile devices!

    • ChiefAJ on 08/11/2017 - 23:52
      +2

      It's Foxtel though, so they will find a way to screw this up like everything else.

    • Morien on 09/11/2017 - 00:56
      +1

      You're right in saying that this is too expensive for just streaming, but as a powerful Kodi/Plex header (even Plex server) it is well worth the money.

      Only device I've had that has played my media without issue (hi10p, heavy in the anime scene, works perfectly fine most of the time, occasionally drops frames in the more demanding stuff I find).

    • Clemfandango on 09/11/2017 - 09:45

      I'd wait and see how locked down the Foxtel box is. It's easy to sideload anything you want on the shield and have it show up in the normal interface. Plus the mouse emulation on the control pad is gold for some of the apps that don't handle remote well.

      • Diji1 on 19/11/2017 - 21:34
        +1

        see how locked down the Foxtel box is

        This is Telstra so half of the boxes default functionality will be disabled along with it being locked down.

  • Aussar on 08/11/2017 - 20:32
    +1

    Tempting.. but I'll hold out for black friday for now.

    • oldhippy on 08/11/2017 - 22:21

      Same. If I miss out then that's my loss :)

  • ruddiger7 on 08/11/2017 - 20:41
    +4

    Completely worth it. In my experience its the best media player.

    • Clemfandango on 09/11/2017 - 09:58
      +1

      Yep, mine as well and I have had or tested pretty much all of them. $240 seems a lot but it's one of those purchases you worth the extra.

  • dnutter on 08/11/2017 - 20:44
    +5

    i got mine purely to run plex server on my media library, as it hardware decodes h265. Previous plex server choked at 100% cpu as no hardware decoding.
    Kodi is good too for very high bitrate HDR, its the only time I log in to the box, or when I want HDR netflix stuff, my hisense 70" doesn't play it.
    Using Plex locally is annoying, seems to downmix various DTS variants to 2ch, whereas TV can stream it just fine through hdmi passthrough to amp..
    There were a couple good racing games I played for a while

    I got the pro because it's got more somethings..

    Be sure to look at exactly what model number of USB drives you can use to upgrade also. It's important. I have 128GB Sandisk something

    • toliman on 09/11/2017 - 03:13
      +1

      Using Plex locally is annoying, seems to downmix various DTS variants to 2ch, whereas TV can stream it just fine through hdmi passthrough to amp.

      passing DTS through ARC is 'problematic', due to TV's wanting to decode DTS, ARC not handling high-bandwidth, multi-channel DTS or 7.1 DTS, etc.
      http://www.rtings.com/tv/tests/inputs/5-1-surround-audio-pas…

      Plex, OTOH, can only push 5.1 into stereo/AAC, because it won't convert DTS 7.1, or DTS 5.1 to ARC compatible Dolby/DTS 5.1, without getting into licensing and decoding/encoding hysterics.

      It leaves this up to the TV's to do the heavy lifting, and they won't transcode audio or alter bitrates. Kodi can decode DTS-HDMA/TrueHD. Plex Won't.

      some people have had luck with SPMC, a kodi variation built/modded for the shield.

      You can then add plex features/addons to SPMC so it acts as a plex client to watch 4k, HDR and DTS 7.1 content

      version 18 kodi should also be better, but it's not ready for prime-time yet.

  • Savitar on 08/11/2017 - 20:47
    +4

    I have two. They are AMAZING. Running SPMC on it (A KODI spin off) there is nothing I have thrown at it that it won't play including 30+ GB HD files, Blue rays, X265 etc. Works seamlessly with my Synology NAS streaming wirelessly. Ultra portable also when going on holiday.

    DON'T bother with the pro. Almost no one ever uses more than the on board memory as you store all your files on a NAS / External drive. It does not have an IR receiver so you can't use a universal remote but for $40 you can get and FLIRC that does the same thing.

    You "can" get something cheaper but you will soon realise why its cheaper.

    • elcheapodeniro on 08/11/2017 - 22:58

      The non pro has some IR ability ie turn tv and amp with remote built in :-)

      • LordPanda on 19/11/2017 - 21:26

        You can set up up CEC connectivity so that the Shield remote can also power on and off supported televisions and receivers and co-opt volume controls.

        I personally use FLIRC in order add IR functionality to the non-pro Shield 2017.

  • wizzfizz on 08/11/2017 - 21:03

    How well does Google Assistant work on this? Does it wake easily from across the room to the Controller?

  • Ulysses31 on 08/11/2017 - 21:09
    +1

    I want one. But can't find a reason for needing one. Xiaomi MiBox3 with kodi and 16tb nas still blows me away. And controllers are spaz (in my hands). Too niche.

    • G Wok on 08/11/2017 - 22:08
      +1

      I've got a mibox too but it doesn't automatically frame rate switch which leads to judder

  • Ragnarok1982 on 08/11/2017 - 21:23
    -3

    if its for a media player why not just get a second hand mac mini.. should run better than this?

    • ultraviolet on 08/11/2017 - 21:53
      +2

      Mac mini can only do software decoding. It will not play well for 4k h264/5 stream. I cannot see how it can play android games.

      • Ragnarok1982 on 08/11/2017 - 21:54

        i see.. thanks for the explanation. don't think i need a 4k streaming machine now tho.. internet and tv not up to par lol

  • ChaLuo on 08/11/2017 - 23:09
    -3

    This Aldi box offers the same level of 4K excitement for only $79

    https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2017/03/aldi-cocoon-ultra-hd-medi…

  • Xizor on 08/11/2017 - 23:22

    Hi Guys i have a big Hotway HDD box full of drives with media, some of it 4k. It has USB 3.0. Also have a PC connected via ethernet to a 2.4g+5g router and the PC has some media on it too, the Hotway is connected to it at the moment. I have a Chromecast Ultra connected to a 4k TV and using video stream it plays maybe 2/3 of 4k stuff OK using videostream over 5gz but my CPU goes around 70+ % so i guess videostream only uses my CPU not GPU. To be honest i'm not even sure if its maintaining it as 4k…?!

    Just wondering if this nvidia box is significantly better and if in my position how you would set it up (i dont like stuffing around much)? Thanks!

    • toliman on 09/11/2017 - 03:17
      +1

      it would add a remote control, android TV, menus, and search functions.

      having the option for streaming/big picture for games is also a plus, but it's limited to how often you'd want to play PC games.

      Chromecast is fine, but Plex/SPMC are far more streamlined to being a Home Theater option, and not an external display for a PC/Tablet/Mobile. having a remote to navigate and choose to watch TV/Movies on the couch with a remote is entirely different to pushing content from a PC or screen in practise.

      • Xizor on 09/11/2017 - 08:59

        Hi Toliman. I have Plex setup actually but have not tried it with 4k stuff. The whole ordeal of cataloging stuff in Plex so it collates properly it just wore thin pretty quick so i stopped using it and back to videostream. I don't see what benefits android TV would give me? My Hisense TV has built in Netflix 4k (though not on 4k package anymore), built in plex app (stopped using it), at the moment we just use the Foxtel and Videostream when streaming content from the PC which is like 6ft to the left of the TV.

        If this box is a better streamer for my content and 4k stuff moving forward and will good longevity, then thats a plus and tempts me! But am just not sure if there are any other compelling reasons to buy it and if i did how i should implement it? i.e. Would i connect my 8 bay hotway HDD box to it via USB3 or does it not support that, or still connect that to my PC and plug the shield in via ethernet or over 5G (router 2m away)?

  • marquise on 08/11/2017 - 23:37

    If the rechargeable remote is the same one as the first Shield, I have never gotten the voice search function to work since the first few months of ownership. Seems to be a very common problem with no resolution. Very disappointing.

  • TristanJ on 09/11/2017 - 02:04
    +1

    Anyone else receiving the message:-

    This item does not ship to Australia?

    • ChiefAJ on 09/11/2017 - 02:49
      +1

      Try changing the selected item. Only the stock Shield sold by Amazon.com ships to Australia. It won't ship the Pro or the set with the extra controller.

      • Xizor on 09/11/2017 - 09:09

        Looks like this deal is gone then?

        • ChiefAJ on 09/11/2017 - 09:49
          +2

          Looks like the Amazon.com stock has sold out.

  • havebeerbelywillsumo on 09/11/2017 - 05:54

    Thanks OP for gently leading me to the poorhouse LOL wanted one of these for a while

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 09/11/2017 - 08:50
    +2

    Believe the hype. The 2017 Shield TV is worth every dollar. If you like media, it will play EVERYTHING 1080p, 4k, any and every audio format. I've retired 2x HTPCs for these. Kodi and Plex are FAST (tho use SPMC - it's better than Kodi) and there is no fcking around with video/audio settings on Windows/Linux.

    If price is really an issue, get a FireTV Stick. ~$85 bucks, Android TV and will do 90% of the Shield TV media wise, just its full of ads for Amazon, voice commands are garbage and slow compared to Shield, can't do DTS-HD MA perfectly and a tad "slower" to browse thru menus, Kodi etc.

    • t3chshopper on 09/11/2017 - 08:59
      +1

      If price is really an issue, spend that $85 on a Mi box. It's a much better poor man's Shield TV :)

    • Xizor on 09/11/2017 - 09:01

      Mate any chance you could give me some advice on my comment above a few posts? Sounds like you were in a similar position.

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join