Tenant Complains about Cold House

LDadidalol on 15/07/2017 - 08:51

Hi all

Long story short, a while back I decommissioned an existing gas wall furnace (think 20 years, no longer safe and expensive to replace) and rather than replacing it with another wall furnace, I opted to install a reverse cycle split system air con in my 2 bedroom rental unit located in Melbourne.

The air con was installed in the living room, C5.0kW H6.0kW which I've been told is quite powerful and sufficient for cooling and heating a 2 bedroom unit of this size.

I've had a new tenant moved in 3 months ago, who has since made a complaint to my rental agent that the property is too cold, especially in the bedrooms, and is making her joints ache. The previous tenants lived through last winter without any complaints about being cold since the reverse cycle was installed.

I'm not certain what I should do at this point. The agent told me that as long as the air con is working fine, which it is, I have done my bit and provided a source of heating, whether the tenant chooses to use it or not, or have to use additional portable heating options for the bedrooms is not my responsibility - is this correct?

I am concerned that if I do nothing and the tenant intends to break the lease, there will be additional costs involved in trying to find another tenant for the property.

Has anyone come across this kind of situation?

What do you all think?

Home & Garden

Comments

    • John Kimble on 17/07/2017 - 06:55
      +3

      They may also be closing their doors which would stop the heat getting in.

      If this was the issue, that would be a whole new level of stupid.

      • Mike88 on 17/07/2017 - 08:20

        This is not an uncommon scenario, I think you have too much faith in the average joe.

  • sparkles on 16/07/2017 - 19:05
    +6

    My house is cold too. I'm going to complain to myself and request I install more heating. And then I will build a bridge and get over it, continue to be cold and sit here wishing I had a reverse cycle system. Wear socks.

    • Sebastian on 18/07/2017 - 03:35
      +1

      Make sure the bridge you built is close to the heater you installing. Don't want to be crossing the bridge and cold at the same time, that'll sucks

  • raven492 on 16/07/2017 - 19:41
    +1

    http://www.kmart.com.au/product/2000w-fan-heater/1283333?gcl…

    You have a reverse cycle AC. Its the tennant's problem. They can buy a jumper and a plug in heater like everyone else. They can Google how to use the A/C if they're not sure or ask someone to do it for them.

  • furys12 on 16/07/2017 - 19:42

    @Dadidalol Bit late to this party and didn't read all the replies but if the tenant does want to break the lease over that, provided you're ass is covered then the tenant will be on the line for the rent whilst you find a new tenant, this is go to "threat" number one for real estate agents when a tenant mentions lease breaking.

    I've had some bad interactions with real estate agents so maybe i'm over doing it but i would start making sure you are 100% covered legally and can prove it, do not take the real estates word, or if you do make sure you have legal proof that they said whatever is they said, and that it's sufficient to cover you, make sure the heating you provided works and you can prove it, make sure the house isn't in any other way in disrepair causing cold and you can prove it, and most importantly be prepared to not be paid rent if she breaks the lease but again track everything so you can get it back in court

  • [Deactivated] on 16/07/2017 - 20:16
    +2

    "I am concerned that if I do nothing and the tenant intends to break the lease, there will be additional costs involved in trying to find another tenant for the property."

    If the tenant breaks the lease then they are penalised.

    If the tenant is threatening to leave because you won't provide something that you have no obligation to provide then this isn't the type of tenant that you want anyway.

    Fold this one time and then the requests will keep on coming.

    You are better off without them.

  • gimme on 16/07/2017 - 21:10
    +5

    holy crap, there's some really entitled people out there. I'd never even contemplate making a complaint like that. They can buy their own bloody heater and do whatever they like with it. I wouldn't buy one even if it was cheap and tax deductable… slippery slope.

  • photonbuddy on 16/07/2017 - 21:52
    +3

    Interesting read!

    Without knowing the design of the house, we can't gauge how effective the AC will be.

    If you rocked-up and said "My house is x square meters, what size AC do I need", and you were recommended a given size on that, then there is a problem.

    Trying to heat a bedroom from the lounge is a MASSIVE waste of power. Even more so if there is a hall of any reasonable length.

    I would be pretty cheesed off if I had to have my AC howling to heat my bedroom, while the lounge swelters.

    Any AC seller who would advise that a single AC unit in one room can effectively heat/cool multiple rooms hanging off that room should be avoided like the plague.

    It's good that you're considering solutions for your tenant, but I think you need to do considerably more chatting to the tenant before deciding on a course of action.

    I think using the REA as a go-between is likely to only cause more confusion and problems.

    • Amaris on 19/07/2017 - 09:43

      The AC the OP has at the moment may require a MASSIVE waste of power to heat the bedroom. However, if that was what was shown at the time the property was leased I think the OP is not obliged to do anything else.

      • photonbuddy on 20/07/2017 - 21:41

        Yes, because everyone is an AC expert that can make an informed decision about such things.

        Honestly, if you think it's perfectly OK for a LL/REA to say to a potential renter "Yeah, the AC will heat both the bedrooms", when doing so will create these MASSIVE power bills because the AC is being flogged to heat those rooms, there's something wring with you.

        I guess we'll have to wade through another thread soon by OP:

        Tenant is weeks behind on rent after getting MASSIVE power bill!!!!! What can I do???????

  • Murdrum on 16/07/2017 - 22:42

    Many time renter here.

    Your RE agent actually forwarded contact to you because your tenant was complaining about the heating in your property? Only one out of three places I've been in have had more than the bare minimum panel heater on one wall. My current place had the cheapest possible panel heater installed just before I moved in because the RE agent pointed out it's a legal requirement.

    Not sure how much you're charging your tenant, but I assume the property isn't kitted out as best as possible since you don't get all of the benefit. Your tenant should be happy they have a split system to use at all.

    If they want to break the lease they probably don't have a valid reason to quickly break the lease and will have to accept all of the penalties. If they do leave, I'd be happy to take a gamble on getting a better tenant.

  • kaleidoscope on 17/07/2017 - 01:39
    +1

    i live in apt where heating/ cooling unit is only available in living room/kitchen. I simply purchased a radiator heater for the bedroom and personal heater for other room, easy peasy and never even thought of mentioning this to RE agent… If tenant is being a big pain, get couple of 2kW heaters to each bedrooms (and in your mind wish good luck to tenant for paying the electric bill -_- )

  • shaybisc on 17/07/2017 - 09:12
    +1

    Old people's joints ache in winter- that's why they move to a warmer climate.

    What does she want you to do?

    • THICKnSLOW on 17/07/2017 - 13:36
      +1

      May I suggest doggy style as the joints get exercise whereas missionary leaves the joints cold

  • OzzyOzbourne on 17/07/2017 - 11:22

    Heaters $20 each, solved

  • [Deactivated] on 17/07/2017 - 13:16

    Heaters or buy a usb temperature logger. I don't think you are legally required to provide a temperature beyond what is recommended by worksafe victoria.

    Here is a link on the university of melbourne website site referencing a worksafe victoria code.

    http://sustainablecampus.unimelb.edu.au/a-z/t/temperature-se…

    • bobbified on 17/07/2017 - 15:05
      +1

      you are legally required to provide a temperature beyond what is recommended by worksafe victoria.

      Worksafe rules wouldn't apply in the case of a normal tenant/landlord relationship.

  • MementoMori on 17/07/2017 - 14:03

    I think you'd be wise to install another gas wall furnace.

    Gas is much cheaper and better at heating, and tenants will know this.

    You can increase the rent and claim the depreciation.

    • derrida derider on 17/07/2017 - 22:01

      Actually, up-to-date reverse cycle A/C is now cheaper to run than gas in mild climates (heat pumps aren't as efficient once it gets near or below zero, though they've become a lot more efficient in the last decade). Even if A/C isn't actually cheaper than gas in Melbourne there won't be a huge difference in running costs. Fan heaters and radiators are, of course, a very different kettle of fish.

      • MementoMori on 20/07/2017 - 14:41

        Wow! Interesting… do you have a link to share for more info on this?

        I have both at home but always run the gas heater. Maybe I should be running the AC? The unit is probably 5 years old.

  • Cyphar on 17/07/2017 - 14:53
    +1

    Ok, I'm going to look at it from both points of view here.

    Tenant: Its a cold house and the only heating is a reverse cycle system. Walls are thin and the windows aren't double glazed so it takes longer to heat up the whole place and keep it in. Being electric, I can't have it run for 12 hours a day to keep the warmth in. Power costs have trebled over the last month. I can't afford this. I have to be selective as to when I use it. If I had a gas heater, I could run it all day.

    Landlord: Providing adequate heating and cooling isn't really mandatory beyond what is necessary. I've fulfilled my commitment. If the tenant wants more warmth, the onus is on them.

    Both sides are right here. Gas heating is only a fraction of the price as a reverse cycle aircon, heats quicker IMO. That said, you're under no obligation to do any more. But electricity is very expense and it could go to arbitration and against your favor here as a result. I dunno. I'm a landlord myself with 2 investment properties and if I was told the house was too cold and it's an older one, I would investigate the cost of a gas heater once again and claim it on my tax. As it stands, I had ducted heating installed in both.

    • quebeck on 17/07/2017 - 15:05
      +1

      Actually that cost comparison is not true at least not in Victoria.

      Reverse cycle heating is usually about 3x more effective at heating than gas, whereas gas might be cheaper 3x cheaper but uses 3 times as much to heat the same amount.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coefficient_of_performance

      There are edge cases (when the temperature outside if very cold, the efficiency of reverse cycle heating goes down), but then you have to calculate the capital cost of having a separate gas system just for heating and reverse cycle for cooling.

      I have both systems, and if I had known about COP before I installed the gas (I mistakenly thought gas heating would be much cheaper), I probably wouldn't have installed it and instead saved the money.

      • edgar28 on 17/07/2017 - 15:37

        Only if most are as education as you than using the normal "perception" that gas is better

      • Cyphar on 17/07/2017 - 15:40
        +1

        I'm in VIC & I'm still not buying this. Despite what my investments are, I live in an older house and I can heat my own house with my gas heating in an hour, even less. I have a pretty strong reverse cycle aircon as well. Some massive Fujitsu one and it takes approximately 6 hours for it to heat the whole house but even then, it's nowhere near the level of heating as the older gas heater. So I'm not sure on those facts but last winter, my power bill was $750 as we had the reverse-system going on for heating. As it stands, without using it much at all this year, with 9 days until my power bill falls due in the same cycle, it's looking to be around $450 and my gas bill $110.

        At that rate, I'll keep using my gas heater.

        • derrida derider on 17/07/2017 - 22:07

          Bet you have an older A/C. AS I said above, this has changed just in the last few years because new A/Cs are MUCH more efficient.

        • Cyphar on 17/07/2017 - 22:10

          @derrida derider: Aircon was bought last February, so no.

  • Andrew87 on 17/07/2017 - 14:54
    +2

    Wait, what?

    My unit is always cold. But, since I rented it without any form of heating in it, I always assumed that it was me responsible for buying a heater (which I've done, and works very well).

    It's not like I can move into somewhere and complain that it doesn't have a balcony, if they never implied it would.

  • Trying2SaveABuck on 17/07/2017 - 21:17

    You have done you duty if this tenant bails keeps the bond fine someone who is less of a pain in the ass

  • CI on 17/07/2017 - 22:40
    +2

    Haha I read that as tenant complains about cold horse
    I was like dafuq

  • therooftop on 17/07/2017 - 22:46
    +1

    It's winter innit?

    • cupcake on 18/07/2017 - 18:31
      +2

      Yes, it is. I'm cold too and I own my house. It's a cold house. What can I do? Should I complain to myself, tell a friend or post a whinge on OzBargain? Lol

  • RefusdClassification on 17/07/2017 - 23:31
    -1

    I surprised anyone in Australia can afford to heat their house. Thanks to the econazis, electricity and gas are becoming so expensive that only the rich can afford them.

  • Davo1111 on 18/07/2017 - 00:58

    "buy a jumper"

  • shaybisc on 18/07/2017 - 09:14

    If you're in the bedroom you should be under the doona warm as toast. If you want the bed pre-warmed you get an electric blanket.

    I do not get the cold bedroom concept- does not compute. There are only two things you should be doing in athe bedroom and you can do both under the doona, in winter.

    • mochariffic on 18/07/2017 - 13:52

      I get it - but for me, I struggle to get a comfortable sleep with cold air. Column heater set to take the edge off is all I need.

  • mochariffic on 18/07/2017 - 13:51

    Wall mounted Ceramic heaters are a good, economical bet. Those or column heaters. Very rare you'd have safety concerns with either of those two versus a blower/element heater.

    Tenent has to pay for rent until you find someone new if they break lease? I've seen those terms commonly on rental agreements.

    Sounds to me you care about keeping the tenant and in todays rental market that's somewhat of a rarity - good on ya :-)

  • wallet72 on 18/07/2017 - 15:55

    Facilities haven't changed since the tenant moved in so it's not your problem, they signed the lease on exactly what they got.

    If they decide to break the lease, they have to pay until you find a new tenant - I know that sounds like a brush off but it really is the tenants problem.

  • Some Human on 18/07/2017 - 17:27

    Sounds like you need to sit your tenant down, explain to them that you've fulfilled your obligation by having a heater in the house and offer them a nice big cup of cement.

  • baz101 on 18/07/2017 - 22:32
    +1

    Have they cleaned out the filters on the air con to get more airflow??? i find it feels 2-3 degrees warmer once we have cleaned them out.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/07/2017 - 06:27

    I don't believe you have an obligation to provide heating at a rental.

    The only issue that i'm aware of is say you have a wall furnace, a tenant moves in, and then while the tenant is there the furnace fails and you choose to remove it. Well now they're renting something that is different from when they entered the lease, so you may have some obligations there. But that's the only scenario along these lines that i'm aware of.

  • ro0sta on 19/07/2017 - 07:48
    -1

    Very simple prospect. You have done your bit. Tenant issue all day…

  • Munki on 19/07/2017 - 11:04
    -1

    The house is cold? There's only one solution: set it on fire.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/07/2017 - 10:32
    -1

    There is one final solution for the old woman
    Take her down to the waters edge, find a nice piece of ice and give her a good push out to sea
    I mean , it's obvious , you have no choice , she's inconvenienced you enough

  • LustStarrr on 21/07/2017 - 09:39
    +1

    My last unit had a reverse-cycle aircon installed in the lounge-room, which should have been sufficient to heat & cool the 1-bedroom space… Until I went to clean the filters upon moving in only to discover it was full of mould & other crud. Ew! Contacted the real estate requesting it be cleaned or replaced, however the owner refused to respond to the agent during the entire 2 years we lived there, so nothing was done. Therefore, if it was cold, it was more jumpers, socks, etc., & if it was hot, open all the windows & crank the pedestal fan. Such is the life of a tenant.

  • LustStarrr on 21/07/2017 - 09:42

    Also, bear in mind the recent energy price rises, & the fact that some people may hesitate to run a reverse-cycle aircon for that reason. Not sure of your tenant's circumstances, but if she's on a relatively low income, perhaps that's her reasoning behind being reticent to use it sufficiently to warm the entire space.

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