I think most people understand it as such…
Parents with Prams Parking Spots » All Comments
I park in them like they are normal spots, especially if it's busy/crowded (somehow parents have been managing for decades without designated parking spots). I don't park in spots designated for the disabled or elderly.
Nice take the spot right in front while some poor mother with 4 kids under the age of 8 has to navigate her way from the back end of the car park making sure she doesn't lose any kids on the way.
They might have managed before but having the ability to park out the front sure would make life easier. You only have to think about yourself, she has to think about 4 little ones!
It is not my job to make life easier for people because they have chosen to spawn. You have kids for 100% selfish reasons; sometimes this choice to create dependant people makes your life harder. Being old and decrepit or disabled is not a choice.
He woolie. There is a positive note in your comment. It looks like you will not be having any kids. Thank god! Less people like you in the world. Cheers. I feel better now.
@harryzee: It's just a shame that he/she can't transfer child bearing capabilities to those who want kids but otherwise can't..
@airzone: Well, there's always adoption or becoming foster parents There's a lot more to being a parent than giving birth.
Wiki
I agree. Your parents were 100% selfish for having you.
I can see why the comment about parking in a pram spot was negged but I don't know why this one got negged. Nobody can disagree that having kids is a choice and people go into it willingly with the knowledge it'll make life harder. Don't have more kids than you can handle, don't take your kids to places you cannot manage them.
So that means your parents were selfish having you, and it means that you never have and never will require any services provided by anyones children (or anyone that were children at any point in their life), because they were not had in order to keep the human race going, to earn money pay tax and support the elderly.
Idiot.
@TrendyTim: Yes. They were selfish in having me. What are you not fathoming about humans and over population…
@TrendyTim: Honestly the parents that cannot trust themselves to navigate a parking lot with their kids aren't producing taxpayers they will likely raise dole bludgers. Using services provided by someone's children is irrelevant, people without kids pay taxes too so parents can have their children for free at hospitals, go to the GP, use the schooling system or get paid welfare benefits for having dependants etc. People without kids subsidise the lifestyle of parents and their children more than the other way around. The least that parents can do is have well-behaved kids and raise them to appreciate the sacrifices everyone else has had to make for them.
The spawn of those parents will be the ones looking after you when you're drooling and lifeless in a nursing home. Long before that they will tend to your plumbing, mechanical, electrical, shopping, health and other needs. It takes the village to raise the child. Unfortunately it also takes the village to raise people like you.
You are 100% correct. Why should I be inconvenienced because others are breeding. They should have seniors parking near the door, not parents. I have 2 kids, and I don't need to inconvenience others to get them around. The neggers don't know what they're talking about.
@woolfenstein:
Claiming having kids is selfish is stupid, having too many is selfish and a drain, having enough to maintain a healthy population is essential tot he survival of the human race. Perhps your one of those let the humans die out and let nature rclaim the planet wackos.@mightyfes:
Its not actually about navigating the parking lot, and most people dont get it until they have kids (i know i didnt, though i was never that vitriolic about it), even if there was a shred of realism in your first sentance its vastly more about not trusting other prople to lookout.There are no designated walk ways in most parking lots and there are lots of morons behind the wheel that may not see a toddler walking behind their car (hell there are too many driveway accidents involving toddlers and their parents who should already be mindful of that, and i've nearly been knocked over by the sterotypical 80 yearold reversing who wasnt looking.
When you have a screamimg baby in the back wanting food early and your trying to find a park, it would be nice to be able to find a spot you can find quickly and feed them rather than have to go elsewhere.
Since the first sentance is BS, rest of your post moot but still stupid and extremely uneducated.
Anyone who thinks it is selfish to have any children and can follow your 'logic' should sign up for a vasectomy or tubal ligation. Im sure my 2 kids wont mind contributing if the government will start a program to prevent people like you from reproducing (even unintentionally).
@TrendyTim: Wow, I did not intend to make you so salty. I see that I hit a nerve. I'm sorry you were not able to follow my logic but I really appreciate your well thought out response. :)
Selfish??? Having kids means sacrificing a lot of your own life and putting your children first instead of yourself. That's the opposite of selfish. People who are selfish will generally not have kids, because they want to be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want… like taking parking spots that they shouldn't be parking in for instance.
@TrendyTim: Realistically, we are not ever going to die out. Not even if the birth rate drops dramatically. Factually, we are already overpopulated/using/destroying more than can be replenished.
Yeah 'cause it's all about money yeah? Nurses and doctors treat the elderly well because they get a bonus right?
Clueless. Selfish.
some poor mother with 4 kids under the age of 8
ohh please. they should have thought about how their life would change before make these lifestyle choices.
i expect a drove of negs by parents.
I expect these same people whining about others being more considerate of them and their parking needs also take their screaming children out to adult movies, restaurants, cafes, and on long unnecessary plane trips because it's their right to!
I pity the hollow, meaningless life that you will live with that continued attitude. But it's your choice, and the world needs a continuous supply of cranky old codgers angry at a world that no longer cares about them.
@airzone: Because I'm sick of having screaming children and their parents who do nothing and do not remove themselves ruin my time/enjoyment/peace? There are movies and times designated for kids. McDonald's and many other family restaurant franchises have coffee and play areas. The problem is wenky hipster parents who want trendy organic frothed milk for their kiddy to drink whilst they take selfies.
When I went out to dinner as a young child we sat at the table and ate. Maybe played cards. We didn't dare run screaming around the restaurant, approaching other tables, making a mess and endangering ourselves and the poor wait staff. If we did, we were dealt with swiftly. If you are willing to actually parent your children and have them behave/be quiet (none of this he's 5, how can you expect him not to tantrum and scream?!) feel free to have them accompany you wherever.
@woolfenstein: So you're protesting people not raising children to your standard by not having children yourself? lol, ok.
Most people I know who don't want kids have reasons such as financial independence, freedom to do what they want when they want, career ambitions, and the such… It always strikes me as selfish, but I respect that.
@airzone: How did you even come to this conclusion? I have not spoken about my life personally.
All I have said is this:
I do not give special consideration/privileges to parents.
I do not want your screaming children inconveniencing me; at my movie, or while I visit an art gallery, or while I am enjoying coffee or dinner with friends.
I worked as a waitress as a teen and unsupervised children were a constant OHS hazard.
@woolfenstein: Thanks for your sharing your thoughts. You've made your point loud and clear. If you have nothing more to add about parents with prams parking spots, please move on.
Yawn.
I assume that mothers on their own, tackling a few toddlers to go on a shopping trip, are unprepared for the the negative attitudes of some others. They expect lifestyle changes but some things like lack of sufficient sleep, a teething baby with another little one with the great explorer genes testing his/her vocals, cannot be imagined, rather only experienced. Ha reality is often different than expectations. It can take military precision planning to go on a shopping trip with some little ones, and not all disabilities are obvious. I say give the mums a break; a sympathetic smile is not too hard for you to muster is it?
@airzone: I am interested to know why you think people choosing not to have kids is selfish. Are you jealous of their lifestyles where they can do what they want, when they want, all for themselves? We live on a planet that is ridiculously overpopulated with humans where there is almost no hope for salvation. Couldn't it be considered more selfish to bring a child into that environment just so that you can feel the self importance of spawning offspring?
@dogboy: Isn't the act of doing something solely for yourself… selfish? And no, I'm not jealous.. I wasn't born with kids - and so I've had my opportunity to travel the world, engage in frivolous activities, drink myself silly every weekend, and play video games until sunrise. And now I share those experiences with people with no comprehension about the variety in the world… Teach them to read, play music, and play video games. Show them how things grow and where food comes from. Drop what I'm doing when one of them gets hurt or is sad.. All without expectation of compensation. That's not selfish.
Anyway, I've got to get back to practicing "my little pony: equestria girls" songs.. Because this is what I really want to spend my evening doing..
Besides which, I don't crap on people who don't want kids (much).. But I really lol'd at ms. wolfenstein's reasoning.. That's like "I don't like airzone playing pony songs, so I'm going to show the world my disgust and cut off my hands".. lol.
@woolfenstein: geez not only designated parking spaces, but you also hogged all my negs. Frankly, you could learn to share more woolie.
@woolfenstein: Wiggles concerts aren't that bad.. Probably just as expensive as a trip to europe though.
There's plenty of "selfish" reasons to have children too. I'm emphasizing that word because you saying that and using that word would actually imply that those who are childless are concerned with only themselves at the expensive of others, which is not true at all. It cannot be at the expense of an unborn child who does not yet exist.
The following are some reasons i've found and thought of. Not to say people don't have "selfish" reasons for not having kids too, but as a whole I believe most people are inherently quite selfish. Here are reasons/situations where having kids can be just as selfish.
to advance in status
wanting to feel needed/like they have a purpose/have an impact on the world
ensure they have caretakers when they're older
to fulfill dreams and have experiences that they never could
in order to please their own parents (because pleasing their parents makes them happy)
to fulfill their own maternal or paternal desires, especially when they don't have the means to do so
to fulfill a duty to god
Your direct involvement in the depletion of resources and the environmental impact of bringing more people into the world
The intense desire to want your own genetic children when there are plenty of children out there who could be adopted@Lunawinter: I keep seeing this point raised about the place…
Your direct involvement in the depletion of resources and the environmental impact of bringing more people into the world
Is the suggestion that the answer to the world's problem is that nobody have kids? Not picking on you specifically, but I actually have trouble trying to understand the practicality of that statement..
I'm just amused at how the neg wave changes. Very hard to tell where the moral spectrum lies or if it is just cognitive dissonance.
I think there's definitely places in the world that need to be having much less kids, yes. It's silly to say never have kids to everyone for this sole purpose, but the way the world is right now, it would probably help if people stopped having so many children. It's not really something that's going to be fixed, but I threw it in there anyway,
@woolfenstein: I love annoying people like you, makes life so much more enjoyable, live is for living not setting designated times! I did the same as this when I was a kid.
@woolfenstein: "I worked as a waitress as a teen and unsupervised children were a constant OHS hazard."
And yet you willfully disregard a shopping centres attempt to prevent this hazard in the carpark, because it shouldn't be your problem.
You are a wonderful example of a human being. Have a nice day.
I park in them as well as a single male.
Why? because i dont think the entitled generation capable of spitting a spawn out of their hairy downstairs deserves special parking. They are not a legally enforcable carpark and westfields only put them in to attract the latte sipping spawners into their clutches.
Your car is at risk of being "doored" by an over-eager kid, scratched by a stroller or capsule, smeared with whatever is on the hands of the crotch-spawn, and god knows what else… I've given up on my family car, but I'd never park my "daddy car" in one of those spots… too dangerous.
The car I take into car parks is worth maybe a 6 pack I couldn't care less.
Besides I keep a box of nails in the boot, easy enough to lace all 4 tyres with a handful of nails, also easy to knock off your side mirrors as well and pour some brake fluid over the paint in the shape of a (profanity).
@airzone: That's a pretty cavalier attitude, you should be shitting yourself with all these internet hard asses on here… :P
@airzone: I'm startled as to how many parents don't think it's their problem/responsibility if their child "doors" or otherwise damages another person's car?!
@woolfenstein: I never said it wasn't.. But it's still a pain in the neck to take time out of your day to do the insurance run-around. So why put yourself at more risk? Unfortunately these days, people in general (kids or no) seem to think it's fine to "door" other people's cars and then run off… As my own car can testify to… :(
@StewBalls: Heh, I'll just have to swap out my "air.zon" car number plate to something else… Like "Not.azn"
@airzone: It's actually pretty ironic, Copie was the one who carried on like a total pork chop when I was telling a story on here once about my first wife egging cars who took her parking spot…now he's advocating outright premeditated malicious damage to property…sigh, the hypocrisy of OzB! ;)
This I put in "just because you legally can be a dk, does not mean that you have to be a dk"
So I am looking up to see if I can legally piss on your car. And If I can, I will.
You seriously underestimate just how much i do not give a flying fk about my shitbox runaround, you can piss on it for all i care, next time it rains it will get washed off.
But keep in mind whatever you attempt to dish out, i will return back 100x fold, nails in tyres, brake fluid on the paintwork, razor blade to the windows, builders expanding foam into the exhaust, tyre bat to the side mirrors etc, all perfectly workable and totally deniable.
The thing I find dirty is my local changed the disabled for pram Nd put the disabled parks 4-6 rows of cars from the door…
Parents can and should walk 2-3 rows instead of the disabled. If you cant controll your kids that shouldnt get you special rights.. The other day I waited 10 Min at kmart to return an item and a dad walked up with 3 kids waited 30 seconds Nd walked past the 3 people in line behind me and said,
Can I go ahead, im just returning this.
I replied im only returning my item too.
He got in my face saying my kids are playing up im going ahead.
Lol I told him not to have kids if he couldnt controll them.
Misbehaving kids dont give you more rights
Gold 👍
Agree. Maybe KMart needs to introduce a Return Line for Parents only.
take the spot right in front while some poor mother with 4 kids under the age of 8 has to navigate her way from the back end of the car park making sure she doesn't lose any kids on the way.
If you cannot control your children in challenging public situations, either lobby your local MP to have parent parking spots lawfully recognised, don't take your children on an outing, or consider some easier alternatives such as catching public transport or placing your excess kids up for adoption.
I will continue to use these parking spots because at least in Victoria, these spots have no legal protection whatsoever. In the eyes of the law they are equivalent to a spot with no such designations.
Merry Christmas.
I don't have kids but thanks for the suggestions.
I am just in support of not being a total dick.
Happy Easter.
I park in them like they are normal spots, especially if it's busy/crowded (somehow parents have been managing for decades without designated parking spots).
these parking spots are in fact "normal spots". there are no road rules that restricts the use of these parking spots.
parents are now considered to be a privileged class of people. the ftb is no longer enough for them. now they want their special parking spots right next to the entrance. give it time and they may find a way to add penalty notices and demerit points.
I don't care where the parking spots are I just appreciate the extra width as kids are a little less concerned with opening doors onto nearby objects like other people's cars.
Lol penalty points. They will just find a way to force you to take one kid.
somehow parents have been managing for decades without designated parking spots
True. But a lot has changed in the recent years:
- More parents using baby capsules.
- Kids' car seats/booster seats are much bulkier, it's much harder to get the kid in and out.
- 'Normal' parking spots are getting smaller/narrower.
- More SUVs/4WDs on the road. More hazards in carparks.These are the facts. I know, because I was a new mum 15 years ago, and a 'new' mum again recently. Parking wasn't much of a problem then, but it's a problem now.
Spot on; cars are getting wider and the parking bays much smaller. An average sized car parking between a 4WD and mum's commuter bus leaves the barest of space to park in let alone exit the vehicle.
Also add disrespectful driver, that think a car-park is a law-less place where they can enjoy the echo of their car revving up.
Those "Special" parking are needed because to many stupid people, who give F-All about anything, road hooligans are free to run down anyone.
You must be the guy whose car got scratched yesterday. Next time maybe it's missing a mirror…
Seriously people like u need to be educated. Signs and rules are meant to be followed not ignored, regardless if there's a fine attached or not.
Don't forget, you're most likely dealing with your typical OzBargain internet tough guy here…these guys talk big behind a keyboard, but you can pretty much guarantee they're total pussies IRL! ;)
@StewBalls, I highly doubt it. I bet @woolfenstein is a woman; a woman with balls who doesn't have any problem standing up for herself in IRL:)
-Wiki ( mother of two mini JJBs)
@Jar Jar Binks: sigh as we all know, all "women" on the internet are really men pretending to be women. ;)
@airzone: LOL! I used to have my own account, wicket1120, but I've disabled it. I use hubby's account to comment whenever I feel like it now.
So much more fun: I get to play devil's advocate and he's the one who gets negged :)@airzone: I could post pics or I could point you to this comment where hubby is complaining about how I nagged him to join ozbargain :b
@Jar Jar Binks: I suppose we will never know, but thank you Wiki. Yo tengo cojones muy grande.
Here is a parking anecdote for all: One time (at band camp) a small group of large middle aged dudes threatened to smash my car with their ute… in a parking lot in the middle of the day, ha. This is because they didn't like where I had parked (them parking across 3.5 spaces horizontally and I parking in the 4th, if you can imagine). I proceeded to take out my phone, press record and say loudly "go ahead". The largest, middliest one who started this all proceeded to drive out with much unnecessary reversing, and I felt like letting him know "You're still right mate." but instead I just stood there, filming, because he is an askhole.
I used to have my own account, wicket1120, but I've disabled it. I use hubby's account to comment whenever I feel like it now.
You should have your own account, otherwise you're saying that you're both nothing but sock puppets or trolls, unwilling to accept individual responsibility for your own attention seeking comments.
So much for strong women standing up for themselves, eh…you evidently won't even do it here with the benefit of internet anonymity.
@woolfenstein: I hope somebody is there taking video footage of you as well the next time you decide to take your pathetic gutless little antisocial stand against parents. The funny part is, you're coming across as exactly the kind of weak-ass trouble-making bint that would run squealing to the cops if someone chipped you for it too.
@StewBalls: I'm leaving the country in a little less than 3 weeks. I won't need an ozbargain account where I'm going :)
@StewBalls: Actually, it's the other way around. Something tells me he might follow us to Mauritius. I give him 3 months max ;)
Wiki
@StewBalls: Taking footage of me parking in a parking space? Or taking footage of me taking footage of someone threatening to damage my property?
Either way you are silly; shopping centres cannot give fines, and these spots are not in anyway enforceable. Or am I meant to be afraid that ACA will get hold of the footage and slander me to the over 65's?!
@Jar Jar Binks: I give it three weeks. That's how long it took me to realise that it was a dumb idea for MrPolyglot to go to London first. Unfortunately, it was my dumb idea.
- it's Wolfenstein
His jenerashen din need 2 pay no atenshun in skule…day had teknologee 2 do da finking 4 um!
Alas, little Katie, it is, in fact Woolfenstein. This is because it is not in reference to the popular game.
You're a selfish person. You have no idea of the stress you cause parents out of your sheer laziness. I've seen cars keyed for this stuff.
Parking in a parent parking spot is legal.
Keying someone's car isn't.
And if I catch somebody keying my car, I'll use the powers I and other Victorians have under Section 462A of the Crimes Act and make sure that they are appropriately dealt with for vandalism.
That's the point. You don't often catch them drawing a long, deep line across the side of your car…
They arent everywhere and blind freddy can easily work out where they are and their sweeping points, provided they are even in operation.
I can guarantee you that you can invoke anything you like and you'll find it near impossible to get anywhere. The law is terrible at this type of thing and you'll simply end up claiming on your insurance and copping it sweet. I see this happen a lot. Best you just try to be considerate of others and not give them an excuse to scratch your car or worse.
Legal positivism makes a poor personal ethical paradigm if you ask me.
I also park in those "parent" spots, especially since it is not a fine-able offence for doing so.
Parents already get bonuses from the government, whereas SINKS & DINKS never receive anything; so I don't see why parents should get priority parking, disabled parking spots are a completely different matter which I have no problem with, and will not park in.
Every decision has consequences, "they" decided to have the kids, so "they" can also deal with the consequence of having to struggle through the carpark with said kids.I don't like them having benefits that I'll never get either, but I don't park in the parent spots because I try not to be a selfish (profanity)
The take away from this is that there are angry people in the world, and they are particularly angry when behind the anonymity curtain that is the internet. Nothing new. Try not to get too worked up about it - unfortunately it wont make them go away. I just give them a low star rating on Ozbargain so I personally know next time I encounter them, to treat what they say with a grain of very angry salt.
I do the same. Don't know why parents with kids get special treatment. It's a choice someone made and it's not like they're now some special person that deserves special consideration. Lol @ the poor mother with 4 kids who has to stress about finding a spot. I mean, why are we rewarding people for their stupidity/bad choices??? I don't go out of my way to help someone with massive amounts of debt by paying off their credit cards do I, but it's a similar issue.
Helps it's not legally enforceable so who cares…
Not really wishing you to have kids, and then having one hit by a car in a car-park, because the parents park was occupied by a d—k. But then ….
It's likely they'll be run down by another parent in a large, unnecessary, suburban 4WD - because their own parents were too stupid to utilize the child locks. Eh. More's the pity.
Is this how you start to think as a parent with kids? Because it's insane and illogical. You're putting them more at risk driving them around than anything else.. should just keep them at home in a bubble.
@PhilipJWitow:
It is all about minimizing unnecessary risks. Do I drive defensive with my kids on board: yes. But it's not that they have just road for parents.
Did I buy a car with high safety-cap rating: yes. Side Air Bags, just in case: yes. Am I near the pool when the kids go to swim: yes.
Do I let them run out on the road: no. Do I take my small one by the hand when walking to school, close to busy roads: yes.
Do I park in a parent parking spot, close to the entry to the shopping mall, when no idiot, who does not have kids, has not parked in it? yes.
Not insane nor illogical.
I put more then 10 years of work in one, and more then 6 in the other one. That is a lot of work, which I try to keep safe.Of course, a lot of people are just inconsiderate and entitled. Wouldn't dare help another human being who made the awful decision to start a family. Nope, rather, they'd prefer to be spiteful and make sure things are that little bit harder for everyone else. Karma has a way of dealing with this stuff and my parents brought me up with better morals than that. This is why society is as ugly as it is now. My memories of growing up are where even language and culture barriers didn't stop neighbours and friends helping each other out.
Of course, a lot of people are just inconsiderate and entitled
yep, those mothers think they own the world
You have a mother too, right? Does she not deserve your respect?
Just noticed all these hidden responses and your neg vote. Wow! I see now why you have been grumpy. Or, is there a record for neg votes in here? Anybody?
Did you know that people with disabilities stickers have priority of parents with prams in these parks. So essentially you are parking in a disabled spot
Did you know that people with disabilities stickers have priority of parents with prams in these parks. So essentially you are parking in a disabled spot
where did you get this information from? could you please provide a link to the road rules to support your post?
They don't have "priority" at all. They are allowed to use those spots to park in though. I think effectively what you are trying to say is that people with the disability pass can park in any legal car parking spot.
Really? sheesh. I'm guessing that you are the same kind of person who would refuse to give up your seat on the train to the elderly or pregnant because you don't legally have to?
Your parents must've been the crap ones that you whinge about yourself because they obviously have failed to teach you decent manners.
Fine, you can disagree with the availability of parent parking all you like but the fact is that it exists and you should respect that shopping centres have chosen of their own free will to provide these spaces. If you can't accept that then you shouldn't shop there.
What other signs do you ignore because you think you know better? "No food or drink in this store"? "Please don't use your mobile while standing in the checkout"? Do you agree that businesses shouldn't be able to have rules/conditions of entry if they aren't legally enforceable?
Maybe I should just talk loudly on my phone during a movie in the cinema, because you know, they can't legally make me stop right?
Thanks, Im going to do the same from now on. Agree with you
Pisses me off when a car parks there that doesn't have a car seat. No kids means find another park! The bays are sometimes wider so we can open the doors to get our babies out. Closer to the shopping centre enterance is safer with strollers as sometimes the drivers fail to see the strollers when reversing.
10 bucks on gumtree fixes that, ive long considered throwing a cheap baby seat in the back of the work crapbox just so i dont have to deal with the entitled generation whinging when i park in a parents with prams parking spot.
Either that or a blow up doll in the back seat, used them to great effect on T2-T3 transit lanes.
Lol … the beauty of that vision! I'd love to know what you dressed your "doll" in. You are giving them all ideas!
Well done; We need more funsters like you in here.
Me thinks he had a doll with its mouth open ready to go.
Bit ironic that you complain about "the entitled generation" while taking a parking spot you're not entitled to.
They shouldnt be there period, there should be 4 types of parking types nationwide, Regular parking, disabled parking, loading zone and taxi rank/zone thats it.
It seems that these days you are entitled to half the world the moment you spit a baby out of your cooch, this includes parking clearly.
I generally dont go near the entitled generations parking, but when the local center wipes out 80% of the available parking due to construction works every space becomes free game, i dont have the time to drive around for 30min looking for spaces.
I use these as much as possible. I have 3 kids under 5 and the extra space is very useful, especially when they open the doors wide and I don't have to stress about them hitting the car next to them. Was using a capsule until recently and again, the extra space is handy.
I rarely use the pram and don't think these spots should be for pram only, I read the sign as 'parents with young kids'.
If I ever see cars parked in these spots without child seats I do feel like using my shopping trolley as a bumper car, luckily I have so far been able to rein these urges
I do agree with your comments for 3 children under 5 with no pram using these spots; should be for all children. However your assumption rearding lack of child seats is a bit hmmm. The parents may have removed the baby's capsule to go shopping with. An older child with crutches or a wheel chair may not be able to utilise a child seat either. Often the (fewer) disabled bays are taken too; got to watch those assumptions (and my typos).
Here comes that "entitlement" thing that we all talk about…..
You feel the urge to trolley smash a car because it is without child seats?? Hopefully you don't feel the same way if a car has no wheelchair while parked in the disabled bay!
I have bought up 3 kids and without the need for a "special" parking zone. The bloody walk did them good from the car to the shops, I am sick of the whiny tattooed "busy young mums" bullyng their way through the mall carpark with their oversized AWD prams.
Not a parent myself but I hate it when I see non-parents park in those spots. Yes, while parents have "selfishly" chosen to spawn and there are no road rules against non-parents parking in those spots, we have also being taught not to be assholes to each other.
I have never parked in those pram spots, no matter how long I have been waiting. I treat others the way I would like to be treated.we have also being taught not to be assholes to each other.
who is "we"? I have yet to see anyone in Sydney act like that in my life.
That's not a bad thing, makes it all the better when you encounter someone that does ;)
@kima "Sydney" …. There's your problem right there :)
My kids are big enough to do their own seat belts now, but I have used these spots when they were younger.
My take is that it is courteous to leave these for struggling parents, but if the car park is otherwise full, all bets are off, sorry.Courteous, yes, but not enforced by any law. Hence, I'll use my liberty to park there regardless of the car park's occupancy rate.
Spots for people with prams, they are larger / wider spots. Whilst not enforcible, it's better to leave these free for smaller kids during business hours
Spots for people with prams, they are larger / wider spots. Whilst not enforcible, it's better to leave these free for smaller kids outside of business hours
i've been to two costco. both of them have the same size parking spots for everyone, with the exception of disabled parking spots that may be a bit wider or are separated by marked yellow spaces.
http://tinyurl.com/zyqwttsNot too sure, only been to shopping ones. My guess it was a shopping centre initiative then others followed the trend and decided to do the same to existing parking close to entrances/exits
Seniors/Parents with Prams spots are not enforceable. Disabled spots are however.
Personally I prefer to park a bit further away and get a parking spot straight away. Plus less thoroughfare going past your car/likelihood of being dinged or scratched.
Our local shopping centre there seems to be some desperation to get the parking spot closest to the entrance. I park right up the back, takes 30 seconds of walking to get to the entrance and most of the time the suckers who were in front of me coming into the car park are still looking for a spot as close as humanly possible. While i'm getting on with what I have to do.
Same here - i always go for a spot closest the the exit.
This is the problem with society today. Full of selfish hipsters. It's about me me me. Respect has gone. These people won't even get up for an elderly person on public transport. Shame shame.I tech my kids to respect other people. This seems to be a dying art.
Ok grandpa, no more Today Tonight for you.
But grandpa is indeed very correct. Wish we had more grandpas around for the kids.
no worries son. I will swing by the cardboard box you live in and say hi hipster.
Why would respect be due to those who have babies? I get up for the elderly because they had no choice but to get old (other than death). But I really couldn't give a toss about anyone with kids. I don't respect them or think they're due any privileges. If anything the selfish me me me crap is coming from the parents. Oh I've had a baby im so important…
Hey Fat. Without kids the world would end.I must be praised and respected for keeping humanity alive. You're welcome. I also create taxpayers to fix your roads.
Hey harry, I think you'll find it's the other way around.
Who do you think will be (paid or unpaid) looking after your sorry self and tending to the work that needs to be done when you're too old to do it for yourself? Ungrateful.
Robots obviously
Giving respect for being elder to someone is not logical. Respect is something that is earned and noone should be entitled to it automatically or when it is asked. You won't respect a bad person even if he is older to you. Respecting others' needs is different however and it should be regardless of that persons' age. If one sees someone struggling with something it is respectful to offer help to that person. I won't offer my seat to a fit elder automatically, but I would certainly offer if I see someone struggling or if someone asks for it nicely incase I am not aware of that persons' needs perhaps incase that person has had a harder day than I had.
Today some (most definitely not all) young people have obviously not been advised it's polite to offer their seats to others who may be struggling. I wouldn't automatically think it's their fault though if they don't. I believe most would if asked politely though. Respect is not an age related thing to me.
On a peak hour train carriage, full of business people, I have had a middle-aged suited man rush to take a seat I was obviously heading for with a grin on his face (and I was near collapse). Perhaps I look more able than I am at times.
Couldn't agree with this more !
Older people whinge about how young people should give them a seat on public transport but so many times i've seen the elderly hot seats to themselves by putting their bag on the seat, their weekly grocery shopping or sitting in the centre of the seat. Public transport is there to share, if you want to sit by yourself go drive.
Give up your seat for someone who needs it more regardless of age, I'm happy to give up my seat for someone who's disabled, pregnant or clearly needs it more but i'm not going to stand and have people push past me as they get on, off the bus just because you're old. My morning bus ride watching top gear is my time before work which I can destress and relax and I won't give it up just because you feel entitled since you created some rule about being old deserves you a seat.
There are different kinds of respect and you're confusing them.
Respecting someone's opinion or position on something is indeed something that one earns.
Respecting that same person's circumstances is something one learns.
When you get old bits of you tend to be in constant pain and things that use to be easy become hard or impossible for most. That is why you give up your seat for an older person - because you have the opportunity to sacrifice very little but make their life a lot better. Your ankles/knees/hips won't keep you awake at night with pain if you stand on a rocking train for 20 minutes. Their's will. (There are exceptions. I have a boss over 60 that still travels to do triathlons. He's a rare exception for the most part.)
So it comes down the the factor "who needs it more". If I feel someone needs it and can't stand then that seat should be offered. On the contrary, if you offer it to a fit looking older person his pride might get hurt. Lastly, a fit older person should be courteous to offer to someone who needs it more than him, i.e a disabled person or a struggling pregnant woman, really tired and sick young person etc. hence age should not be a factor of determination for respect or offering a seat.
In case you haven't heard, as you get older your body falls apart. Don't pretend for one second that you don't understand that the older a person is the more likely to suffer aches and pains, and have limited movement or be more vulnerable to a knock or fall. Admit that you want to be selfish and not give up your seat. Don't pretend you care a jot for the old person's "pride".
I have an older brother of 60 who is an accomplished ultra-marathon runner in Europe. I also was a long distance runner in my youth but never regained the interest. I think I may be the bit of an exception being much younger than him, but having to take nerve pain medications in order to be able to walk these days. No longer able to take anti-inflammatories as they have damaged my kidneys too much. Have tried a few back surgeries too. Thing is I look (very much) younger than him (only one in my family to not be affected by greying hair) and I do try to keep up with my physio and exercising, but I do not appear to be suffering to others who are not aware. I have had to stand for almost an hour on a train (suffered for days as a result). So far I have not been up to asking for another's seat just as yet though. Just never again on one of those b trains! Sitting down alone would not have alleviated all my pain, but perhaps some of it at least.
@syousef: Let's not get into accusations, anyone can make baseless assumptions. Lets stick to the point. I have focused on need aspect. If the older persons' needs demands it then they shall get it, so would a younger person in a similar situation. With your logic you would dismiss many other peoples' needs. I have never excluded any older person in any of my statement, I have included more people. You have been trying to twist it or do not understand what I have been saying. I have no qualms giving my seat to anyone who needs it or asks for it nicely as I am lucky to be fit to stand for hours without feeling any effect on my body. If that makes a difference to someone it does not cost me anything and I would do it in an instant.
@JediJan I have a friend with EDS and Chronic Fatigue Syndrome who looks fit but is in constant pain and needs meds for functioning. Made me realise that looks can be deceptive.
I'm not trying to twist anything. It is you twisting my words. If you don't understand that as your body ages you will be in more pain I can't help you. Your education is way too lacking for me to fix in a short exchange on Ozbargain. Ignoring or denying that that does not make you more inclusive.
Your friend should be covered by disability law and I fully support disabled parking spots. However you can pretty quickly and without needing a permit card see that a parent struggling with young children or an elderly person struggling to walk needs the spot more than you!
These spots were originally created by Coles outside their supermarkets when they started a baby club others have since copied the idea. So it's purely a marketing promotion.
I see you have no kids.
You have no idea how wrong you are!
Well. I have been wrong once before, so possible.
it's purely a marketing promotion
…and your point is? Is there anything wrong with making shoppers' lives easier?
I think they were just answering the question the OP posed:
Just wondering what your interpretation is of these spots?.
This a bit of a loaded question, however:
Is there anything wrong with making shoppers' lives easier?
i used to park in them when i didn't have the pram our kids aged 2 and 4 at the time.
Once i got inside would put them in a trolley.For me, it would be if you have a baby/kid that sits on a pram.
However these spots are not enforceable. Even though it may be rude for a regular customer to park over there, you can't really do much.
Disabled parking spots are the only one that can legally be enforced
These 'parents with prams' parking bays are nice and convenient and certainly make a trip to the shops that little bit easier, however they aren't necessary. Put your kid/s in the pram and walk like everyone else does. Disabled bays are a must (and seniors for that matter), but not these!
And yes we have kids (now 6 and 3).
Not necessary, but you have to admit the closer to the entrance to the shops, the safer it is for young kids. Lots of hazards in a carpark.
lots of hazards world wide
Wow. Do you step outside?
You sound like the people complaining about parks having swings too high.Good luck travelling around the world.
Wow, love the aggressive attitude guys! I just pointed out it's not necessary, but it is "safer" in principle.
I couldn't care less if these pram spots didn't exist. I have 4 kids and have never bothered to use them.
I have no idea why you think I'm "complaining". I basically agreed!
PS We've also traveled all over the world - Mexico, Cuba, Philippines to name a few places.
Thats why you hold their hand. what a load of crap.
There are hazards in your kitchen
And that's why I have a barrier in the kitchen. Bye Felipé!
Parking here guarantees some kid is going to open their door onto yours. I have kids they can get quite excited or distracted.
Otherwise its not enforced so still free for all. Its for the people that dont want to risk a fine for parking in the disabled carpark
I use them with my 3yr old twins without the pram.
They are usually a direct roadless access to the shops.
Having not to negotiate a carpark with two young kids is much safer from the parents spots.Adult with no kids = jerk
Adults with kids who are older than age to be in pram/trolley = jerkI don't believe these parks are enforceable like the disabled ones apparently are; i have seen Police issue tickets for offenders parking in Disabled spots. I have a disabled card that i only like to use on my really bad days, or if there are ample spaces available. My assumption is that there are others who may wish to use the spaces that may be worse off physically than i. It is irksome that some very obvious physically fit drivers and passengers often use the Disabled spots. You can use the cards if your passenger qualifies for use too. Sometimes when i think i am having a good day and park far away, i feel like collapsing outside the shops themselves so an outside seat or two (apart from the smoking area) would be very useful.
Cars have child proof car door locking but few appear to use them outside schools or in car parks. Not only do they offer children safe exiting under parental control, they stop them from swinging car doors to hit others. It was good enough for me get out of the car and walk around it to open the passenger side doors to supervise the children exiting, so I think it is good enough for others; we never damaged others property either.
You would (possibly) be surprised at the sheer number of cars (usually 4WD these days) that barely stop and children spilling out on the drivers side and without looking run across the road to school. 40kmh is far too fast a school speed limit to accommodate these parents attitudes. If it is because they are time poor, double-parked or blocking driveways … just park a little further away and (shudders) walk! May give the parents a bit more quality time with their children and encourage safe road crossing too.
Also 20kmh is too fast for car parks with little (and big) children to consider, yet you frequently see drivers speeding through without a care in the World. Don't think I don't emphathize with single parents of toddler aged and/or disabled children; just have to find a workable strategy for you. A little more care and supervision is required by all drivers; we shouldn't really need signs to show a bit more courtesy.
I am a (reasonably) physically fit driver but park in permit spaces when I have my father with me (he has a permit). So don't assume the permit ia always for the driver.
Correct; I mentioned that these disabled cards cover disabled passengers too. (My elderly mother would bring hers along when i took her for her appointments etc. I am careful with my assumptions as disabilities are not always obvious. If people jump out and almost run into the shops it is highly suspect, although i try to give them the benefit of the doubt, assuming some emergency. You tend to notice more of this behaviour when you cannot leave the car yourself to go shopping (a son would do this for me; one with a recognised disability, although I the one having had several back operations .. hopefully fixable). I am sure some are suspect of me too on my better days though! If people truly suspect and feel offended they could report the incidence to the Police. I think that is why i saw Police booking cars in some disabled bays not too long ago. If someone had use of the card on those occasions they could refute the fine easily enough.
Police can't issue tickets in shopping centre parking, because it's private property…
I have seen local Police (apparently but perhaps I am wrong) do just that. Walking up and down checking these permits, noting registrations and issuing some notices. These were attached to windscreens, but of course I did not read them, so I take your point. These (only a few at that time) were outside a popular pharmacy.
I have wondered upon this private property issue in the past myself. In Victoria local Police (Casey Council district) can and have issued fines if a car is left unlocked at a petrol service station.
I highly doubt it - this doesn't sound like a first hand account but some form of heresay. Police can't issue fines on shopping centre property any more than they can fine your own car for improper parking in your own driveway on your own land.
@ninetyNineCents:
First hand account. I only saw this once whilst I was waiting in the car (I have a disabled permit; barely walking at the time). Thompson Parkway Shopping Centre, Thompson Road, Cranbourne North.Regarding the cars being unlocked at a service station; it was reported in the local newspapers at the time. Most of us had not heard of that one either. So, not only do you take your keys with you, you are supposed to lock it. I guess it is up to the Police to enforce the ruling if they care to. Probably a reaction to the number of stolen cars in the district. Ring them if you don't believe me. We (in Cranbourne) seem to only get the one local paper now, the News. I am not sure what service station it occurred at but I think it was the Safeway Caltex one in The Homemaker Centre, South Gippsland Highway. Few years back.
Hope that helps.
Regarding the cars being unlocked at a service station;
Well firstly this is not a parking offence, but some sort of abandonment type law. I dont know the specifics but that would make sense, people cant just leave their car on the property of others, eg i cant just park my car on your front lawn.
Again this ( im of course guessing) isnt a parking or speeding issue, its dumping garbage ( the car) on someone elses property.
In Victoria local Police (Casey Council district) can and have issued fines if a car is left unlocked at a petrol service station.
First of all, you dont know the full situation, you are making a lot of assumptions about what and why that car was ticketed. There are plenty of laws the car could have broken without it being a parking violation. Since none of us really know the details its not possible to guess.
Regarding the cars being unlocked at a service station; it was reported in the local newspapers at the time.
Newspapers are hardly well known for hiring or really caring about reporting the facts in all cases. They just dont care and often write up anything, just like current affair shows.
What im trying to say is, without all the facts, we cant just "guess", there could be many other more reasonable reasons for the event your describing. After all, like i said in another comment, who gave the shopping center the governmental rights to set parking limits ? They cant set parking limits any more than your neighbour can set a limit for the spot in front of your house. To stop people from using the spots when they catch the train, they then charge a rate, after a reasonable typical shopping time.
Only the government can make laws, can enforce them via the police and courts and jails for punishment. Private companies or peoples like westfield or you or me, cant do the same…
In Victoria local Police (Casey Council district) can and have issued fines if a car is left unlocked at a petrol service station.
This from the rms hand book.
https://www.google.com.sg/url?q=http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/do…CHECKS FOR PARKING
Before getting out of your vehicle you must check your mirrors and blind spots for
pedestrians, bicycles or other vehicles.
Before leaving your parked vehicle you must ensure that:
• The parking brake is on.
• The gears are engaged either in first gear for downhill, reverse for uphill.
Automatic vehicles should be left in PARK.
If you are more than three metres away from your vehicle you must:
• Remove the key out of the ignition.
• Lock all doors and windows if there is no one in the vehicle.The road rule is 213.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/…Thats fine - thanx…
i think you fail to appreciate that parking restrictions, and speeding limits only apply to public land, they cannot be enforced upon private land.
@whooah1979: Thank for the link; very informative. I had not even thought about closing the windows when at a petrol station. We are in Victoria (unsure if that makes any difference).
The newspaper article I read was the first time I had heard that securing of vehicles at petrol stations was essential, and when I mentioned it to others no one else either had (so not the only one ignorant of that particular road rule … but we know ignorance of the Law is no excuse ). I imagine (guess) it is one of those laws that Police are not so vigilant in finding offenders. We came down from FNQ at a time we never locked our vehicles so frequently forgetting to lock them … everywhere!
Police can't issue tickets in shopping centre parking, because it's private property…
that is incorrect. a leo can issue infringement notices on private property that are open to the public. private property owners can also engage the local council to have their rangers patrol their private car parks.
I have never seen this happen or mentioned in any Westfield. They can on,y tow you for all problems and charge you for the cost. They(Westfield) never mention other infringements in their conditions.
Please provide proof…
@ninetyNineCents:
13 What is a road related area(1) A road related area is any of the following:
[…]
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.http://www.legislation.nsw.gov.au/#/view/regulation/2014/758…
Proof of the legality, and others have reported anecdotal evidence of enforcement.
The text your referring too doesn't mention anything about private property. It only mentions roads and public areas, that is what is a road in a public area. If you read the other notes, none of the, remotely Sou d like a shopping centre.
I have never heard or seen of r b t in a Westfield etc for the same reason, the parking area is not a public road which means police can't enforce those specific laws.
It only mentions roads and public areas, that is what is a road in a public area. If you read the other notes, none of the, remotely Sou d like a shopping centre.
this nrma blog may not be the best source, but it's easier to read for those that don't understand the road rules.
https://www.mynrma.com.au/blog/2016/03/03/road-rules-in-shop…i'll try and find more links when i have time.
I highly doubt the NRMA article can possibly be legal. For starters, the speed limit in shopping centers are setup by the shopping center or contractors for them, either way they are not set by the gov. I doubt anyone can be done for speeding a limit set by another public person who is not a officer of the government. Its no different from someone else in your street setting the speed limit for your street, that simply is not legal.
I cannot believe that there are drivers driving around that don't understand what a road related area is, or that they refuse to learn it.
Can a hwp please login and explain what rule 13 means.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/…https://www.google.com.sg/url?q=http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/do…
(d) an area that is not a road and that is open to or used by the public for driving, riding or parking vehicles.
ok D is the bit your referring too…
In practice when was the last time anyone ever saw a parking police or regular police in a westfield ???
Its almost like theres an untested or unwritten law that the gov never tries to enforce those laws in private shopping centers, which means the law by default does not exist in that regard. Im wondering if the text above is about parking in a "public" or "crown" land area.
Actually i thought about this crossing the road today, and if parking places in shopping centers are "Road related", then that means there should also be government signs regulating speed and other things, but i have never seen ONE anywhere. I think that prettty much establishes they are private property and not part of the definition your claiming.
People raise the argument that parents shouldn't require "special parking" spots because we are no different to everybody else….that i agree with, yes we are no different….but try pick up a kid out of a pram and then put them into their car seat whilst holding the door with your foot making sure it doesn't hit or scratch the car beside you.
I've said to a few people now, i don't mind if people park in these spots if the carpark is full…maybe Maternal nurses should govern Parental Parking with stickers much like Disabled parking, for those who are on top of general check-ups and vaccinations etc.
Parental parking is mores for child safety and limiting avoidable accidents…
I agree with you. Also i think disabled drivers/passengers should be able to utilize them too, when there are insufficient disabled bays available.
Disabled drivers can park pretty much wherever they want. To suggest a disabled person should park further away so as to provide convenience for a non-disabled person, because they are a parent, is utterly ridiculous.
Need: Disabled people > parents with prams
Come again.
I did not make that suggestion at all.
@JediJan: Re: parental parking
"Also I think disabled drivers/passengers should be able to utilize them too, when there are insufficient disabled bays available."
They already are/do/should be able to utilize these spots. Disabled drivers are more important/have greater need than parents.
I think you are just trolling me. To keep you happy; just on this occasion:
I never suggested "a disabled person [should] park further away so as to provide convenience for a non-disabled person … blah blah blah."
People were asked for opinions in here. We don't always agree but, that is the beauty of discussion and sensible argument. I don't understand why you want to pick a quarrel with me, when there is no reason I can see to do so. Maybe try someone else who may be a little more obliging … maybe you have a bone to pick … but me?
I have a disability. I try to be nice to people even when we disagree. Maybe you should try that tack too.
Bye; have a nice evening one and all ✌
@woolfenstein: give it a rest mate….you obviously cannot read lol…@JediJan was not saying what you suggest at all.
I agree with you JediJan.
You can put all the stickers in the world on the car, but even then that does not make you entitled to use the spots, nor are they in any way shape or form legally enforcable as they are not recongised in any legal form such as ADR's etc (unlike disabled parking)
Well said.
andrgram 16 hours 34 min ago
"try pick up a kid out of a pram and then put them into their car seat whilst holding the door with your foot making sure it doesn't hit or scratch the car beside you."
Why would it be any harder than picking up a few bags of groceries out of a shopping trolley, which is bigger and heavier and putting them on my back seat?
Groceries don't get hit by cars
Meaningless comment.
Are you implying that children and or prams have some miraculous force field around them that prevents cars from hitting them?@StewBalls: He seems to have forgotten that as inanimate objects, bags of groceries will stay put until you move them, and when you pick them up they don't squirm around and fight being put in the car and clip on their belt. Putting shopping bags on the seat is easy.
@airzone: and you seem to have forgotten that a shopping trolley with no brakes on the wheels, full of grocery and several times larger and heavier than a pram has a mind of its own and needs more room and is harder to control than a lightweight pram.
@Davros: I suspect you haven't done solo shopping with kids before.
The well planned parent has at least one of the squirming kids in the heavy trolley's seat, and any additionals either in the trolley (if you've only gone to buy bread and milk), or a combination of vice-like grip (trolley single-handed), under arm (usually employed when kid is uncooperative, and trolley single-handed), on your shoulders (best when you have outdoors parking or a high roof clearance… hitting kids head on fire extinguisher pipes isn't fun for anyone). Along with the heavy trolley with a mind of it's own.
@airzone: I suspect you haven't done solo shopping with kids before.
You suspect wrong, but some of us have better behaved kids than others.
" on your shoulders (best when you have outdoors parking or a high roof clearance… hitting kids head on fire extinguisher pipes isn't fun for anyone)"
Thats nothing but you being unobservant and i'll say it, bad parenting on your part.
"Along with the heavy trolley with a mind of it's own."
Yes, I mentioned the trolley.
Here's a tip, woolies and coles have an online buy and delivery service, I use it often and havent had to contend with an overly heavy trolley for quite a while now.
Maybe you should try that and save your kids heads and you some obvious angst.@Davros: As you so aptly said just below "The world need less people like you who make assumptions and more that deal with facts.".. Specifically where did I mention that I hit my kids head on anything? Or are you making an assumption?
Aldi offers such a home delivery service? The local baker / butcher? Asian market? Prescriptions? The local GP also has his base in the shopping centre…
C'mon mate.
@airzone: Specifically where did I mention that I hit my kids head on anything?
So your example of hitting the kids head on a "fire extinguisher pipes isn't fun for anyone" was made up BS then.
"Aldi offers such a home delivery service?" so dont use them, use the grocery that meets your needs.
"The local baker / butcher? Asian market? Prescriptions?" Are you really going to have an overloaded shopping trolley full of bread, drugs or bok choy?
"The local GP also has his base in the shopping centre…" What has that to do with overloaded trolleys?
Many years ago, when these spots were first added to my local shopping centre, I was challenged a couple of times by elderly shoppers who thought I was taking a disabled spot. I guess many people weren't aware of these types of car parks then. They did apologise once I pointed out the difference and having a baby in the car tended to diffuse the situation as well.
Different time and place and I had a profusely apologetic Mum with quite a handful of children using a disabled parking bay, trying to load children and groceries. I told her not to worry about it (there were several disabled bays available too). In my opinion she had far bigger needs than I. At that time it was a difficult struggle to get in and out of the car and then try to walk into the shops.
Something I would not have considered years ago, but more seating outside supermarkets, and shopping centres in general, would be very useful. I used to worry about entering some at all (became semi- reclusive), for a time at least, lest there was no seating available if urgently required.
I think these are fair game if the carpark is actually full.
Completely full? Sure. I don't think anyone disagrees with you.
I would hope not, because my opinion is clearly correct.
=P
Just kidding. I don't shop in big shopping centers much, which are the only places I've seen pram-only car parks. So I have no idea how common it is for those carparks to fill up.
If they have children with prams;
Why not just children?
Why not just old people?
Why not just obese people?
Why not just women?
Why not just large families/carpooling?
Why not just smokers with shortness of breath?
Why not just 10 minute parking?
Why not just Army/Navy/Airforce?
Why not just Firefighters/Cops/Ambulance workers?This is why I hate people. Everybody expects something.
Everybody should be able to live their life equally.I dont hate anyone.
I don't expect anything from anyone, but hope to be treated in the same way as the respect I hope I show others. I do try, even if it is not always apparent.
People are fallible; we should not be so quick to pass out judgement on others, and we hope they in return forgive our own blunders along the way. We can all be a little more caring towards others, not forgetting a little consideration sonetimes can do wonders. I am a great believer in the "Pass it forward" idea.
Smile and the World smiles with you.
😊
Actually I've seen parks that are marked for old people. First responders also already get special rights if on duty (i.e. ambo's can park in spots that are usually no parking, fire trucks can park pretty much wherever they want if they need to).
Parking spots for people with prams, and old people, work quite simply because the general populace are wiling to respect it (as this thread demonstrates). Where as parking spots for smokers with breathing problems, or obese people, probably would not get such a good reception.
As already stated on the thread, these kind of 'special' parking spots are non-enforceable (unlike disabled parking that use a government issued permits). So even if every body expects something, some groups get it and get sympathy more readily than others.
Its not like parents went and stole the bays, the business owners (i.e. the centre) decided they wanted to cater to one type of customer, I am sure if they did their math and worked out they could get obese people to spend more time and money in the centre by providing special parking bays they would do it. It's not like disabled bays where they legally have to have a certain number, these are purely a business decision by the owner
I support people who find it harder or more dangerous having spots set aside for them, especially when it's not even enforced with fines. The rest of this is humour.
Why not just children?
Children don't drive their cars to the shops on their own :PWhy not just old people?
They need to keep healthy too? (If they can't move too quickly they should qualify for disability anyway).
Why not just obese people?
For the excercise?
Why not Jo Mamma? ;-)
Why not just women?
Because they want equality.
Why not just large families/carpooling?
Why would you need special spots for large families?
Why not just smokers with shortness of breath?
If they're that short of breath they probably qualify for a disability.
Why not just 10 minute parking?
Because no one ever sticks to 5 mins.
Why not just Army/Navy/Airforce?
Because they are the fittest and most able bodied.
Why not just Firefighters/Cops/Ambulance workers?
Because they are the second fittest and most able bodied.
I think they are ridiculous.
They should be given to disabled people.I dont remember that i have seen the disabled parking full since the beginning of the year, i believe shopping centers normally have plenty of disabled parking near all entrance at least in WA.
Many existing shopping centres in the growth corridor of South Eastern Victoria are modernising and improving the shortfall that used to exist with some of them. This appears (I am guessing here) to be as a consequence of the newly built shopping centres. These seem to be attracting more disabled shoppers as they offer more disabled parking bays, lower inclines etc.
I have seen disabled parking spots full constantly lately - full of non-disabled 4wd owners.
Precisely.
And they removed disabled spots for damn people with prams? Try shopping when you have difficulty walking 100m.
They removed disabled spots for pram spots in NSW.
Utterly ridiculous.
Still some mothers crying for their so called pram spots.
What!?
Where!?
They can't actually reduce the number of disabled spots beyond a certain (very generous) limit, by law.
I found a fully loaded shopping trolley is much harder to control than a pram. So, like it or not, I propose all parent with pram spots to be converted to shopper with trolley spots.
Try both the trolley AND the pram at the same time.
If we could all have our cake and eat it too.
Having children is now a luxury? Or is it shopping for food that you can go without? With attitudes like this it's no wonder society is going to shit.
The parents with prams bays have been nothing but a problem since they started. With arguments like this in ozbargain - power trippers go around causing trouble in real life. Disabled spots were removed to make way for them. They are not necessary and they are only giving privileges to people and disadvantaging others. most of these spots aren't wider and you still have to cross the road so its not safer for children. Most the people in favor of them only argue with selfish intent - because they are the ones using them and they just don't want to have to look for a spot like everyone else. People always come up with excuses as the why their circumstances warrant more privilege than others.
Finally some truth in this thread.
Disabled spots were removed to make way for them.
Is there any proof of this?
the centre had exceeded the number of disabled bays prescribed by law.
And there it is.
It shouldn't be up to the shopping centre - the closest X spots should be disabled spots by law, with serious penalties for infringement (where X is a reasonable number based on research).
There are legislated minimum numbers and types of spots for disabled parking. They haven't removed all the disabled parking to put in parents with prams in any shopping center I've seen.
I'd be amazed if any carpark had replaced ANY disabled spots with parents spots, ever.
Moved them, maybe.
nope the centre i go to painted over them with the red parents in pram. you can still see the blue at the bottom and they didn't put any more disabled bays in.
By law they must have a certain number of disabled parking spots. This number is very high, to insure that severely disabled people can still get easy-access parking even during heavy peak times.
The only ways they can replace disabled parking spots with Parents spots, without incurring serious penalties, are:
a) They moved the disabled spots to some other place (by law, it must be somewhere else with easy access to an entrance, so not an issue).
b) They somehow had a ridiculous number of disabled spots to start with, so many that they are above the minimum requirement and could afford to lose a few.
So unless they are breaking the law, "Disabled spots were removed to make way for them" is misleading.
Go to Chadstone.
The disabled spots are gone, now replaced with mum-taxi zones.
@mgowen: You are basing your argument entirely on your assumption and your imagination its just plain oppositional because you don't want to accept it. several people here have said the same thing so your opinion has no basis. there was not a ridiculous number of disabled spots and they are always full so NO disabled people can't afford to lose a few.
Here is one of the situations where disabled spots were painted over.
Exactly as I said, they were only able to do it because they'd already "exceeded the number of disabled bays prescribed by law":
http://www.heraldsun.com.au/leader/south-east/new-casey-cent…
Now, it sounds like they may have acted poorly by having a disabled spot further from the entrance than a Parents' spot - it's badly written and hard to tell (perhaps deliberately, can't let facts get in the way of anger, since that's what gets pageviews and sells newspapers).
I'm a parent with small kids and a baby, but I'm strongly in favour of disabled spots taking priority over Parents spots. I chose to be a parent, and I don't expect society to bend over backwards for me.
I'm just not fond of ACA-style panic over non-issues. I feel it distracts people from actual problems that need attention.
This is an excellent example: if there are insufficient disabled spots, and they don't have easy access, then that's an actual problem. It just has nothing to do with Parents' spots.
I'd be amazed if any carpark had replaced ANY disabled spots with parents spots, ever.
Moved them, maybe.
They somehow had a ridiculous number of disabled spots to start with
Seems like your backpedaling now because its very clear you are not supporting disabled parking at all.
if there are insufficient disabled spots, and they don't have easy access, then that's an actual problem. It just has nothing to do with Parents' spots.
Your whole argument has been based on arguing that the parents' spots did have an effect on disabled spots and now you're saying its not, which is contradicting yourself.
Personally I see it as the Centre has chosen to try and make things easier for a particular type of customer, no one is forcing anyone to shop at that centre, so if someone has an issue with the centre making the decision on their own property to make a few spaces designated just for parents with young kids they can always shop elsewhere.
I don't get the "why should YOU get a special spot" mentality from some trolls on here, the parents didnt get out there and paint the bays, the OWNER of the centre decided what they wanted to do with THEIR space. This isn't some hippie commune, business owners do have the right to make these decisions for what they determine is best for their business.
I would think that shopping centres have provided these parent/child parking bays in response to what the community wants (but only guessing as I know not). Sometimes there are surveys conducted at the shopping centres and they often asked what people want to see at those particular centres. (I requested a movie theatre; we used to have one at the centre but it was closed down and more shops added… we did not get another one though!)
Up to the customers if they want to do the odd shopping centre survey now and then. Obviously parent/child parking bays must have figured highly on these surveys; would guess at least half of the customers are parents with young children these days.
For the record, there's nothing selfish about being a parent at all. In fact, the exact opposite is true. When you have no kids, you can be selfish and entitled (as you clearly are). It's a good thing that you have no children so your terrible attitude isn't replicated and society gets better by having more caring people and one less selfish, nasty, egotistical loser
"It's a good thing that you have no children so your terrible attitude isn't replicated and society gets better by having more caring people and one less selfish, nasty, egotistical loser"
Why is it that people with children always resort to these style of attacks?
They think that just because they breed, which is nothing special, that they are somehow better than everyone else.
Reality usually shows that this is not the case with only a small % of people on this planet actually doing good and the vast majority doing nothing more than consume.Where did I say that? I said parenting is far from being selfish and having children actually is very special. How could you know if you don't have any? Your neg doesn't change the fact that being a parent is to have a selfless life. When you don't have children, you can be selfish and entitled. This world needs more considerate people and less people like you.
You made an assumption that I have no children.
The world need less people like you who make assumptions and more that deal with facts.you didn't have children for any other reason than your own selfish wants, don't sit there and pretend like you did it for anyone other than yourself. Its a real shame someone with your attitude decided the world needed more of you - the rest of us don't want that and we need more of the people who don't see breeding as an outright positive because they actually think of things other than themselves.
these people always resort to this because they have no real argument. i actually think a lot of these sort only have children to dominate them and blame them for their bad behavior, poor kids.
This is really funny. The majority of people at some stage, will be parents. So apparently the majority of the world should be living a selfless life… Why is it so cruddy?
Pay no attention to the lynch mob/"anti-breeders". A few crazies have come out of the woodwork and used this thread as a platform for their anti-children/parent agenda.
@got_rice: do you think its acceptable to call anyone that doesn't agree with your opinions "crazies" and use mental illness as an insult? Is mental illness just a big joke to you, that you think it's o.k to tease those people?
the main anti-breeders here have been parents themselves turning around saying ridiculous comments like I am glad you didn't breed - when none of the comments have implied they don't have children. Just goes to show you have no logical argument so you resort to trying to insult others.
To be honest, I pity them
Talk about assumptions! I had them in an effort to bring up better human beings for this world as the selfish, nasty people die out. Your parents had you didn't they? Selfish of them to give you life…
A little simplistic don't you think? Let's say it's bad parenting… A simplistic amswer
If you have children and don't think it's special, I pity your kids. They are all pretty special to their parents. Are you that empty a parent?
Spoken like a person that has no idea how much effort it takes to raise a child at all, let alone raise them well.
The entitlement of parents (especially new parents) is disturbing.
Wow you procreated. Do you want a medal?
There are more than enough people on the planet and insufficient resources. Why should you get parking spots because you have a pram? No one asked you to have children.That's like someone with a big car complaining there aren't more spots designated solely to people with big cars.
Get over yourself.
Oh the irony! I'll let you figure it out
There's a new-ish shopping centre near our place (East Village Zetland), with a whole row of these parents with prams spots near the entrance.
I always see them filled with gym goers going to the gym upstairs.
I try to do the right thing and only use them if I have my two kids (one 3-year old and one 3-month old) in tow.
There's a new-ish shopping centre near our place (East Village Zetland), with a whole row of these parents with prams spots near the entrance.
does it have any disabled parking spots. if it has, then how many compared to the prams side?
Pretty sure there are disabled spots, but to be honest I haven't really been keeping an eye out for them.
"Paid no attention to parents with pram parking at shopping centres until I became a parent myself 9 months ago."
That's what you call a selfish (profanity).
I didn't automatically read "Paid no attention" as "blithely used"…so just assuming the worst of the OP might actually be drawing a long bow in this case.
I know a lot of people who prior to becoming aware of these spaces didn't even look closely at the actual image on the ground, they just saw paint there & assumed it was for the disabled or emergency vehicles etc, so just moved on quietly to another spot.
I park in those spots. I have 5 kids but I even park in them when by myself. I understand disabled spots, seniors and pram spots but so much. In Germany now there is Women only spots, because they could be a target of something. What's next? Weak looking male spots? Homosexuals spots? Muslim spots? Glasses wearer spots? Just find your spot and get on with it. I don't respect any of these special spots, other than disabled spots.
I guess you'd probably say the same about disabled spots if you didn't get fined for parking in them.
I don't think it will be that far off that we will have the women only train carriages in Australia. Germany has had a lot of problems with many male migrant workers/non-workers (dare I say refugees) who look upon unaccompanied women as sexual targets.
Japan has had female only carriages for a long time, due to crowding/the incidence of groping/assault. It has nothing to do with refugees. To say this is incredibly racist.
Expected no less from you; now you are calling me out as racist. Cheap shot. You do not know me or my multi-cultural friends who would laugh in your face. As I suggested in an earlier post; go troll elsewhere.
Do you deny unaccompanied women in Europe are manhandled and treated poorly by some immigrant workers from Europe who are unaccustomed to the way Western countries expect citizens to behave? Interesting.
Reference was to Germany: I only repeated what the German women are saying, and it is well documented in many of their newspapers. Just look at New Years Eve for example. Is it racist to repeat what all the tabloids are saying? Have you visited there and asked a few women? My brother has (lived in Europe for about 20 years now); he is fluent in the German language too.
@JediJan: Women in Germany are also assaulted by German men. This has been happening long before the hysteria regarding refugees.
"many male migrant workers/non-workers (dare I say refugees) who look upon unaccompanied women as sexual targets"
So do many non-migrant males. Everywhere. The objectification of women is woven heavily through-out western society. Sex doesn't sell. Sexy women sell. There are no semi-nude men in ads for sausages. Focus on that if you must, not blaming refugees for a pre-existing problem.
@woolfenstein: You should tell that to the people who live there. The migrant/refugee problem has been well documented in the media over there. The problem was not such a prolific one as it is now. As in Australia, women were not discouraged from going about on their own business alone. Now they are actively discouraged from doing so; risks are perceived too high to do otherwise. Who can blame women for requesting women only carriages?
@JediJan: As I have previously pointed out - women only carriages are not the issue. Your swallowing of mainstream media bias, and subsequent racism is.
Women want gender equality on one hand, but it's intriguing how the femenazis go all silent when women-only carriages are introduced or even thought about.
The problem is not how to keep women safe. The problem should be how to keep your country safe. Germany dug its own grave by leading the way and accepting hundreds of illegal migrants, and now they're paying the price.
I am not getting into that debate; I +'d you for the Germany comment though! I see both sides of the coin here, but many of the men here must have daughters. Would they feel the same way if their daughters, wives and mothers were found in those awful predicaments? Cannot count on any male passengers for assistance (my own experience as a young 20+ year old … the other male passengers just raised their newspapers higher so they didn't have to watch). One does not have to be a feminazi to have concerns about the safety of women.
Apparently (according to my brother who lives in and travels around Europe … no OFFICIAL source of course), much of the incidence is because Germany is short of skilled workers, workers in general, and have sought to replace the shortfall with immigrant workers. This was even prior to the (ahem current) Syrian refugee crisis.
It is difficult to answer without being called out a racist (see above).
There are several countries with zero population growth that are seeking ways to improve their economies by increasing immigration. It seems to me (and I know absolutely nothing of course … watch the negs now) that Australia has too low a birth rate (and I wonder why this is?) for its economy, and will have to increase its immigration quotas to make up for this shortfall also.
I was down at Castle Towers today, and the sign read something like, cars with child restraints only. Fine $130.
Fine $130.
not enforceable unless stated in the road rules 2014.
http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2014104/Well I hope it deters people enough. Shopping is already hard enough with toddlers.
Whooah is essentially correct; however, it's a bit of a legal minefield contractually speaking; and even though it's not strictly speaking enforceable as a fine per se, private car park operators can still make your life somewhat difficult if they so choose: http://www.legalaid.nsw.gov.au/publications/factsheets-and-r…
As you say, hopefully the threat mitigates some of the childish antisocial douchebaggery! ;)
If I saw that sign there I'd purposely park there just to see what law I'd be allegedly infringing.
How did the world ever survive without pram parking spots, eh?
I guess there was a really high mortality rate of "parents with prams" making it from the car to the shops.
I would like to see special parking spots for redheads.
We all know the risks of skin cancer and having to walk the extra 100m in the blazing hot sun from the back of the car park COULD BE DEADLY to us rangas.
Might petition my local woollies for this. Who's with me
+1 for use of ranga lol
I think if there's a baby seat or booster seat in the car (and at least one child in the car at the time), you're good to use it. If none of your children need those, you probably don't need to use that space.
Yeah and perhaps we should allow people with sprained ankles to use disabled spots because they are sort-of-disabled right?
The spots aren't designed for you if you're not going to abide by the rules then don't show outrage if everyone uses them.
I want GAY parking sport of people like me who spent lots at the shop.
Be careful though, you might get… no, too soon…
Hate how shopping centres are now making these types of car parks more prolific and/or closer to the entrance than the disabled bays.
As a parent myself, I apologise for the majority of moronic self-absorbed parents out there and their crappy condescending attitude.
I remember when I had no kids and the amount of sheer arrogance I copped from parents was astounding. It’s as if they feel producing offspring gives them self-enlightenment when all it does is turn them into careless smug arseholes.
I use the Pram parking when possible because yes it does help us when we are trying to carry our 4 month old out of our car into her pram(The extra space to get the capsule out is great), but do I act like a spoilt brat if someone other than a person with a pram is parked there? No.
The funny thing is you read the comments on here with people who have kids who are old enough to not have a pram spewing their 'woe is me' attitude of how they need it just as much(Pro-tip you don’t that’s why there is no parents with kids parking). They know they're in the wrong they just don't care. But rest assured if they saw someone without kids parking there they would be complaining about how these "Soulless child-free people" shouldn't be parking there.
My kids are too old for these spots now and I don't use them. They came in just as my kids were passing that age. I don't resent them and I don't want to see other parents miss out. It's not that childless people have no soul - it's that there are added difficulties when shopping with young children and we should all be supporting each other as a society, not just looking after our own selfish needs.
By the way just a quick tip: Don't apologise "for the majority of moronic self-absorbed parents out there" and accuse others of "sheer arrogance" in the same breath. It makes you look foolish and hypocritical.
it's that there are added difficulties when shopping with young children and we should all be supporting each other as a society, not just looking after our own selfish needs.
There's that no-one has any difficulties but parents attitude I know and despise.
quick tip: Learn to use the English language before you throw around big boy words like hypocritical.
I'm sorry am I using words that are too big for a child and parent hater?
I interpret them as parking spots designed to give enough space for prams, capsules, and safety due to location.
When I have a pram I park in them if available and convenient. When I don't have a pram I don't park in them as part of the contract for entry and use of the private carpark is to obey such designations.
I find it slightly annoying when people without the designated equipment/passengers park there but I don't waste too much mental energy on it.
They are good but Westfield Geelong has a designated fenced off kids parking area which is just fantastic. I wish they'd roll that out elsewhere (if it passes a CBA).
I haven't been to Westfield Geelong, but given that you've mentioned it's a private car park, that only leads to the fact that you cannot be issued an enforceable infringement anywhere within that car park (such as Westfield Doncaster).
Their limitation of liabilities from you would be capped to the actual losses Westfield would've incurred by you parking in a parent parking spot without the correct 'credentials'. As I'm sure Westfield would apply the same time conditions and paid parking conditions to both parents and non-parents, Westfield's actual losses are zero. Thus, even if Westfield were to take legal action against you for "wrongfully" parking in a parent parking spot their claim would be limited to a maximum of $0.00.
If it is a private car park patrolled by council (as in Westfield Southland) you won't be issued an infringement as parent parking spots do not legally exist (as disabled spots do).
I'm not familiar with whether the council patrols said carpark as I use that carpark perhaps once a year at most as I don't live in Geelong.
Thanks for the legal advice. While you have forgotten that 'nominal damages' is an available remedy in such circumstances, the potential for damages against me are not the motivating factor in my honouring the terms of the contract I agree to in this instance. My own sense of personal honour is the main motivating factor, with a slight acknowledgement that there is a practical importance to people obeying the directions in a car park, and that lack of consequence is a poor justification for engaging in behaviour that has negative externalities (serving to make impractical something that would be beneficial on aggregate or beneficial to a special class that face a particular difficulty with normal arrangements).
Besides, the beauty of the parents section of that carpark isn't just that the parents benefit. It's that everyone benefits. The parents and children are segregated, leaving childless me (as the majority of my use of that carpark has been) less in need to concern myself with the potential of an incident in the other areas of the carpark. Of course one must still look out for the fools with their noses in their phones and the fools who hoon around, but in an imperfect world mitigation is to be celebrated.
I've always been annoyed that seats on planes, trains and buses that have extra legroom aren't reserved for tall people. Us tallies are more important than regular people
i agree with you there, im a shorty so no self interest in it but tall people should absolutely get more room. its a safety issue on planes too because you get cramped.
If you can book very early and reserve (pay extra) that seat just behind the second door (left side). You can stretch out to your hearts delight and not even have the claustrophobic concern that the ignorant b in front of you may recline their chair back and end up in your lap. Of course the airlines cannot guarantee any booking let alone any seat. I try to book that seat for my son otherwise he physically gets serious muscle spasms and has to stand in the aisle frequently.
its still not right that tall people have to pay extra to do that. the airline chose to make the seats smaller and put in no practices to ensure tall people are given the room they need when they book, making them pay like its some premium luxury. these tall people are actually just in the normal range for human height. unfortunately airlines seem to be a law onto themselves and discrimination laws (fairness) don't seem to cover them
I'm glad they have these spots for parents and their kids. I remember when I was a bratty kid and would fling open the car door without any thought for the people parked next to us.
I love my car so I get paranoid enough as it is parking next to any other car. I'm always parking right at the very back of the car park preferably next to a pole/wall so I have one less vehicle either side of me! The more parents park away from me the better!
chances of it happening are rare and not worth the worry. its happened to me once and the child was certainly not a brat. small price and you can get a scratch fixed. So not an important thing to be worried about in life. Worry about children getting sick or loved ones dying.
I have a kid of primary school age now. But never parked in kids with prams spot. Maybe it's just 1 kid and easy to handle. I reckon that spot would be lot easier with people with multiple kids. Sometimes kids just want to climb down and run around when poor parent is trying to unbuckle little ones. It's hard to keep kids to ask to stand still or control opening the door. I think it's easier to judge people but being a mother, I know it's hard to keep them from running. Sometimes they are not in mood to listen or they are throwing a tantrum. It will be easier for the parent if they park at such places.
Have you never heard of a child-lock on a car door? It means it cannot be opened from the inside. There is usually a small switch when the door is opened to toggle on/off.
I do and I use it myself for my child. But I have seen the situation wherein kids trying to run and parent having hard time controlling them
I'm neutral about the parent parking spots. Am single and law abiding so I happily leave the spots designated for disabled, car wash, tyre shop, parents, employees.
To me the parent parking spots are a marketing gimmick. Its designed to appeal to the parents who are attracted to convenience. If you think about it the kids don't care how close the car is parked. Kids are overflowing with excess energy, enthusiasm and time (eg. run, hide, dodge, tag, trolleys).
The parking spots are purposely designed by the shopping centre to bring in the parents that wouldn't come otherwise. I say let those parents who are into an easy/entitled/selfish lifestyle be manipulated to custom at the greedy shopping centres. If others don't like the shopping centres there are alternate places to shop and who need your support.
I'm biased as I love smaller unique shops and have insight into some of Westfield's centre management and extortionist tactics.
It's not a gimmick when you have a pram and you need to get around easily.
If you can walk, use the stairs and park at a normal spot.
There's always utes parking at those spots,
(profanity)
The reason my wife uses the parent spaces at the supermarket is to take our 3 month old infant in to the supermarket requires CARRYING him in her arms so she can put him in the baby seat in the trolley, cant take the pram in. So being close to the entrance is a godsend.
For parents with kids who can walk, I see no reason to use the spots. But kids that need to be carried in for various reasons, they are a good idea.
EDIT: Actually kids who can run/walk are a fair danger unto themselves in any carpark. Not having to walk through rows and rows of cars probably saves a kid being reversed into now and then. SO I do see the added value for little kids who are likely to run off and get hurt. :/
Agreed. The pram spots help in many ways:
1. Wider girth
- so you can open your door fully to strap your kid in
- easier to load capsule
2. closer to shops
- this is not about kids being lazy to walk etc.
- Kids and prams are small and have low visibility from reversing cars etc. Parents of newborns will especially understand how it feels having to push a pram in a busy car park, having to scan for all cars, whether cars reversing out, cars still hunting for parks etc. Children aren't trolleys that bounce back when cars hit them. Less distance = less risk.What kind of society have we come to that we find it difficult to empathise with the hardship of others? Even if you do not care for the parents, is there no room to be concerned about children?
Personally, I would prefer that parking spots in general were a little wider (rather than having parents with prams spots). Less cars would be damaged by doors being opened and there would be less "someone damaged my car AGAIN" rage. Happiness all round.
Also a walkway through the car park to provide a safe thoroughfare and prevent idiots from walking behind cars after they have started reversing.
And yes, I know that none of this will actually happen.
Oh wow! I'm a parent for 23 months now and I still haven't noticed these spots.
I didn't think it was a problem walking a little bit from the car to the door. But what do I know. I only have 1 kid.
I park in pram spots all the time, no kids. That's life. Suck it up parents.
Thug Life. You show those mummies and cute little babies who's BOSS!
Gold
I have a hammer which I got few cars with who parked In disabled or pram spaces. Your next
Wow - a heated debate. I view these parking spots as a suggested courtesy to mums with kids. Although not a legal obligation, I would not park there without children. I view it as a courtesy just as I would give up my seat to an elderly person on the bus or train. Others are not obligated to, but I will consider those that don't to be selfish (to put it politely). All of us have loved ones who are old or have kids and would appreciate the public treating them well
I finish work late and park in them at night as I've yet to see a parent with a stroller at the shops at 8:30pm. Haven't parked in them in the day since that's when people with strollers are out and about but yeah, these are a courtesy by the shops to their consistently higher spend customers. Kids cost a small fortune to keep alive, the coles and woolies of the world are absolutely going to give families preference over the rest.
I asked a shopping centre about the issue as people were parking in the spots without any hint of kids. They just said it's actually not a rule, more of a preference that people follow. It's really nothing special. So after that I thought I might as well park there.
Now with 2 kids myself I park in the spots more often, but given the shopping centre's own attitude I would park there without kids if there were no other spots available. The fact is, even with kids, I don't mind parking wherever anyway. This whole 'need a wider parking spot' would be nice but toughen up.
Really no big deal, before kids I thought about it, but now after, I figure it's not a right. Having kids doesn't make you disabled, it's not even in the same boat.
Much like motorcycle filtering. I used to think 'damn that's unfair' but now having a motorcycle I realise that it doesn't hold anyone up, it's safer for the motorcyclist and in fact faster for everyone. I now give a wide berth to motorcyclists if they want to filter.
i assume motorcycle filtering is when they go between cars in traffic? never had an issue with this - actually appreciate that they do it. don't know why people hate them unless its a jealousy thing. people don't like when people overtake them and speed up so probably same sort of mentality. hate having to drive behind a motorcycle or have one drive behind me, so i like when they go and good on them i say.
motorcycle riders are the best! they cause so much less trouble than everyone else, they dont take up a tonne of room in carparks and its all at their expense - they are less protected in accidents and also rain and weather. much less selfish than other people. never seen one cause other people trouble but i have seen people cause them trouble. wish the carpark would reserve special spots for them!
If you can walk around a westfield with kids in tow, you can walk the extra 50m out the door like everyone else to your car
My mum is one of those people who occasionally thinks it's okay to park in these parks when she is just running in for one thing or if it's late at night/close to the shops shutting.
I am one of those people who refuse to get out of the car when she does this unless she moves to another park because it's not fair for her to take up a park when we're perfectly able to park in any other park.that is so sad :( no matter what you don't like about your mum doing, you should always have her back no matter what. don't care what other people think they aren't going to support you like your mum will. when you're grieving these people aren't gonna care less about you but your mum will. take care of your mum while you have her. None of us are perfect but anyone who has an issue with your mum, shouldn't get your support. Your mum can fight her own battles but she can't fight you breaking her heart, that cuts worse than anyone else because she loves you. She knows you don't like her doing it, just get out of the car and show her that you love her regardless.
Good ethics
CBF reading all 4 pages, but my policy is simple. I abide by the law. If/where/when parent parking spots are legally enforced, I will not park there. If they are simply recommended (as most are) for parents with prams, then it's totally fair game.
Neg all you like but I couldn't care less.
It's not my fault that parents cannot manage their own business within a normal parking spot. Those inconveniences come with parenthood, and parents should not feel entitled to any specific favours unless such favours are afforded to them by law (for example, on public transport).
If you are a parent and your pathetic
reasonexcuse is that your car is too big, you should sell your environmentally-unfriendly mum taxi, carefully rethink your choice of vehicle and purchase/drive something which you can manage more readily.If your excuse is that you have problems accessing your vehicle with all of your offspring and cannot cope with a parking spot that is some distance away, perhaps you can consider some easier alternatives such as:
- not becoming a parent
- not travelling to a location where you cannot confidently carry out your duties as a responsible parent without assistance
- catching a taxi/Uber
- hiring a limousine
- getting someone to drop you off and pick you up
- not bringing your carbon copies with you
- catching public transport
- hiring a babysitter for your little ones, or
- splashing out more and hiring an au pair.
In other words, don't expect concessions for your own life choices. If you have a car and children, you are doing much, much better than others in our 'modern' society.
Do yourself a favour. Drop your self-given sense of entitlement and do your own work. Parenting was not supposed to be easy, so don't expect it will be. Besides, you aren't aged. Nor are you involuntarily disabled. If you can manage your children in a shopping centre/supermarket/mall/wherever you're going then I am absolutely positive that you can manage to walk the length of a car park.
Slightly OT but….
I'll never forget the time my (able bodied) father in law parked over the middle line separating TWO disabled spots in the underground carpark of a retirement home. His reasoning was he didn't want anyone to hit his new car doors in the carpark, so decided taking up 2 disabled spots (at a weird angle mind you) was the right thing to do.
I was in the car at the time and let's just say he ended up moving to a regular, single spot :D
I think basing your ethics simply on what the law allows and does not allow makes for a mindless and practically quite poor philosophy.
In any case (assuming a direction to obey all signs/directions exists within the terms), your action is still a breach of the law. In this case contract law. It is simply one where damages are unlikely or at the least unlikely to be demonstrable as in this case breaches of the terms are minor and impractical to act upon (the resources required to perfectly monitor such things and actually execute towings etc would not pass a CBA). In these circumstances, the matter is still a breach of the contract and thus a breach of contract law, and nominal damages are still an available remedy (though again practically they likely would not pass a CBA in this instance).
You seem to be of the belief that statutory law is the only law or that elements enshrined in statutory law are the only legally recognised elements. I'm not a lawyer, only a legal graduate, but still I can assure you that is not the case.
Now as I said originally, I think basing one's ethics on what is and is not legal is a foolish and lazy philosophy, however you seem to be internally inconsistent. To rectify that inconsistency either your actions need to change or your philosophy needs to change. Personally, I'd favour tweaks to both.
I normally try to avoid parking in these spots, but there's rare occasions where i have no choice and in that situation I'll Park there only if there's nobody else behind me with kids in the car.
Only times I remember parking in them intentionally was when I bought some big suitcases,made it a lot easier to load them because of the extra space around the car.
That said, in normal situations I leave those parking spots alone.
As someone with a 4 month old, a child seat perpetually in the car, and 9 times out of 10, a pram in the back (it's a wagon) … seeing someone without any of these things in a pram spot is kind of annoying.
At the same time, I don't care, because, it's just a parking spot, but why even bother marking it as anything if barely anyone cares, at least more people respect disability parking spots.
Isn't the whole point of the wider parking spot so that you can get your pram/kids out without smashing up the guy next to you's door? Same with like disabled parking, so you can get out, since you have trouble doing that presumably. And if you have no problem getting yourself out, then go park in a bloody normal spot.
My partner didn't go through 9 months of pregnancy so you could take her damn spot for no reason other than your own laziness. You wouldn't park in a disabled spot… hopefully… so why would you park in a pram spot?
People respect disability spots because they are a protected space by law, the entitled generation parking spots are not recongized by law in any shape or form.
They're actually covered by a law? Interesting.
I can now add disabled spots to the list of things I wish the police would make an effort to bust a few people for, to set an examples and whatnot.
Disabled parking spots are covered by law in all states and territories.
so many angry parents lol.
Now whoop the minions or control your kids.Don't do that… You'll probably be charged for child abuse!
Unless this sign/rule is enforced, then it's likely to be ignored.
I also paid little attention to these until I had kids, then realised how crucial they are. No easy feat getting kids out of the car as well as a pram…..the extra space really helps.
No easy feat getting kids out of the car as well as a pram
It's understandable that children can be a pain to control when they enter or exit a vehicle. But what does a pram got to do with wider parking spots? I've never seen anyone loading or unloading a pram from either side of a vehicle. The pram/s are normally stored in the boot of the vehicle, unless the vehicle is van or a Ute. Then it can be sideloaded.
I think parents wheel the kids to the door before unloading them into the car and vice-versa.
In my opinion the only 'reserved' parking should be for use by the disabled. Having children is a lifestyle choice, being disabled isn't. And making sure that the disabled bays are kept clear for those designated people should be enforced by clamping those vehicles not displaying a 'badge', with the proceeds going to charity.
What I find interesting is the number of people that "borrow" those passes to park in those bays that have no disability. They just happened to live in the same family as someone with a disability.
I think if there is an issue with not enough disabled spots being available that might need to be addressed.Couldn't agree more. People that decide to have kids shouldn't be given any special parking spots. They made the choice, if life's hard, bad luck.
I'll usually check out the parent with parking spots first. If one is free I'm straight in there with no remorse. I'd never park in a disabled parking spot as they need them. Parents with prams can just suck it up .
Before kids I never really cared about the parents with pram spots. for maybe 2 or 3 bays for a whole car parking floor it didn't really seem like something to get upset about. However since having children I see the value in them as it really helps with not having to damage other peoples cars by accident when you are trying to rip three toddlers out of a car at once.
I don't think they need to be right next to the exits, I think that is probably the real reason "no-kid" people get upset about it, they want that empty park right next to the door, why should they be disadvantaged by a few metres to park somewhere else? (lol).Anyway, I think that shopping centres if they are going to have these parks so put them up the back or somewhere else. I think it would be wise to make sure that there is good pedestrian safety before doing that, but if there is, maybe by doing this there wouldn't be so much entitled rage about car parking spots. (Seems like we have a thread every week about someone getting P'ed off in a car park, just get over it).
My wife sometimes gets a bit antsy about Parents with Prams spots — not that they are there but that, in a few places at least, there seems to be quite of few of them, unoccupied, when the rest of the car park is full.
We were at a barbecue a while back and I was talking to a chap who is a retired copper. He said that he had noticed the same thing, so I asked him what the legal situation was.
He said that, so far as he knew, it was what he referred to as "implied" — in other words, the spots are there for PwPs but there was nothing to actually stop anyone parking there. If you parked there without a pram, it was not like you were going to get towed.
[He also said that a parking infringement in a private car park — like next to a supermarket — is not enforcable by law, but that is a bit OT.]
The last thing I asked was, what if you park there and get a dirty look from a PwP? He said that had happened to him, with some shirty woman saying something quite rude to him. He said he replied, "I was shopping for a pram as a present for my neice!" Good idea…in Perth WA, Garden city Shopping centre.
You have to display the Sticker to park in the spot.
if not the shopping centre managemenet can fine cars without valid sticker.
Valid stickers can be obtained for free (so they say but Donate $2 for good cause Extortion) excuse.
anyway I've paid $1.90 cents for it as that;s all I had in my pocket.
so yeah…
I've seen older people in their 70ths knowingly or unknowing park their vehicles in the pram spots before.
http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/roads/using-roads/mobility-parking…
I think most elderly people are well within their rights to use these spots anyhow, especially if they use a walking frame/cane.
Park in them all you want, with or without kids.
I just hope you don't share an experience like the guy I saw return to his convertible to find a used nappy soiled-side down on his drivers seat and half a bottle of warm milk all over the back seat.
Arrogant little prick, cutting me off and parking there while I had been waiting with a screaming 3mth old for the previous car to leave, he won't to that again in a hurry.
Arrogant indeed… A screaming 3 month old!? Quick, call the Wahmbulance!
I love the fact that in a recent thread, where the topic was someone "stealing" a spot the poster had been waiting for, everyone suggested keying the car, brake fluid on the bonnet, urinating on the car, fecal matter on door handles, and other such lovely "gifts"..
Yet when I mention something similar for a prick who pinched a "parents with prams" spot I'd been waiting for, it's a multi-neg post! :)It's because you are a breeder. Our crimes are over populating the world and being smug, condescending and entitled.
I wouldn't park in one, just out of courtesy.
In my opinion, it's not about the closeness, it's about the wider space. Kids have no idea about how much damage car doors do, and even as a parent, you try to prevent your kid from opening them too far, but if you can't get a park in PWP, you don't have much space to play with sometimes.I also wouldn't have a problem if you are one of those people who couldn't care less about "entitled" PWP spots, who think oh dear, too bad, suck it up, and selfishly park in one, and one day Karma bites you when some other non-parent parks in a PWP, and parent with a kid misses out, parks next to you, and BANG. Suck that up.
These spots are to help protect you from kids and parents who don't care about the car next to them, not just help the parents out.
Jesus people (those whom deserve this focus), it's a parking spot for parents with prams, which mostly will be used by the mother. No problems there, glad it could help.
This isn't about a kids behaviour at a Restaurant/McDonalds/Other.
This isn't about Parents and Superiority.
This isn't about Preferential Treatment.
This is about convenience.
This is about saving your car from getting whacked.
This isn't about a kids behaviour at a Restaurant/McDonalds/Other.
Actually it is. Standards of parenting these days are appalling. If parents controlled their kids properly we could resume a civilized society, and we wouldn't have to worry about feral kids crossing car parks.
This is about convenience.
For whom? The lazy hopeless parents who are too stupid and lazy to make their kids behave? Cue bogan parents - get negging people, but try to take a dispassionate look at yourself. Are your kids well behaved in public?
actually it's not….Parents with Prams parking bays doesn't mean shitty behaved kids, hell infants up toddlers that can't do the shopping (time/distance) is hardly a problem. But Bogans online see it as something else. Shitty kids are from shitty parenting (at least where it matters) and your focus should be on that, than some bloody parking space.
Yes I agree the standard of parenting amongst many is deplorable, such is this life, you'd think there would be more anger directed at the general driving populous than on a parking space.
Anyone who has child(ren) that replied to this thread, can agree these spots has made their early parenting lives much easier. I have received much help from strangers when I'm out with the baby and was overwhelmed carrying the baby, groceries AND nappies. Some offered to carry things to my car, some help me pick up her bottle she dropped. Of course none of them had to do it for me, but it was kind, caring, and sympathetic.
Yes, the pram parking spots are only marked as a preference, and it is also a choice we can make as a person to show kindness to others isnt it? I've always thought people without kids that parks in those spots, are doing so without consciously knowing what those spots are designated for. But so many comments here are so cold hearted, whatever happened to people just helping each other out?I think some people are just venting, some just looking for a rise. Perhaps the weather has been getting some down. Hang on to the kind words so the others just brush off.
Will never understand why they get this privilege. If anything they should be moved right at the back where there is less traffic.
I think most of us can recall news of a toddler/child being hit in a shopping centre car park. I, at least, can. The quicker young chikdren are buckled up in a car the safer they are.
To all the people saying that people having kids have nothing to do with them. These are the children who will eventually grow up and support you through their taxes, be your nurses and doctors, drive your trains and buses, grow your food, build your cars and roads, and run your country.
And don't give me that 'I won't be on the pension or need support because I will have a million dollar Self-managed super fund.'. Your money aren't going to do much if there's no one around to actually do anything.
People who don't have children are worse than selfish because they are essentially relying on those who do to see them through old age.
Lol because if we dont provide parking privileges to parents mankind will reach extinction. Cant handle your kids dont come shopping.
The only thing wrong with your assertion (people who dont have children … are essentially relying on those who do to see them through) is that these people are generally far better off financially.
The ones I know of are self funded retirees who would claim little or no Commonwealth welfare pensions and also have private health cover. They have been paying the highest taxes most of their lives (no rebates) and invested carefully and wisely so they are not a burden on any taxpayers.
Case of damned if you do (have children) or damned if you don't. Where do you think the money to educate and train your children came from to begin with, so the children, can hopefully become financially independent in the future? The aged care and health industries appear to be where most jobs in the future will be generated. What comes around goes around eventually.
Just wondering something as I see comments here about pram parking spot not as enforceable as disabled parking spot:
How enforceable is disabled parking spot in shopping center? Is it within the shopping center management to issue fines or the council?
Why do you wonder? Do you intend to park there?
Just people here saying pram parking are not enforced, so I wonder if disabled parking are?
Just do not park in them. To me your queztion is more like "can I get fined?"
End even if not, follow my recommendation, don't be a dick, just because you can be a dick.
The "you" in not aimed at you, but at everyone.I don't know why this isn't a valid question… Like the only reason to ask this question is because I am trying to park there.
Do you actually know the answer?
@wildstone: I normally ask a question, because I hope the answer contains information that comes useful to me.
Maybe this leads me to believe that you also ask the question for the same reason.
I do not see what benefit you can carry away, if you know if the disabled parking is enforced. Unless you intend to park there.
Please enlighten me, and tell me what benefit is it to you, to know if the disabled parkings are enforced.The benefit to know is so I have the knowledge…
What benefit is to you to know the events happening around the globe, when you are reading a newspaper… ?
Again I ask, do you actually know the answer? You have been replying but have not actually provided an answer to my original question.
@wildstone: Knowledge that is no use to me is useless knowledge, and just uses part of my memory for nothing.
Do I need to know if a dog has pissed on a tree? No.
Do I need to know if someone committed suicide, maybe.
Do I need to know if the trains are late this evening, yes.Do I need to know if the disabled parking are enforced or not. No, I don't park there. Yes, to whom do I report someone who parks without permit.
So to answer your question: No. I have no clue.
I would have formulated the question as "To whom can I report, a car that is in a disabled parking, without permit ?". Does that fit ?
I did once report to Shopping Centre Security, they did say they would take care of. After waiting 15 minutes, and no one checking, I came to the conclusion that they do NOT care. I assume they put signs for disabled parking, to comply with regulation, and that's that.
I did once report to Shopping Centre Security, they did say they would take care of. After waiting 15 minutes, and no one >checking, I came to the conclusion that they do NOT care. I assume they put signs for disabled parking, to comply with >regulation, and that's that.
After so many replies, thanks for finally giving an input that is related to my question. Thanks again.
@wildstone: Just out of curiosity, with this information, are you
1) Going to park there, because nobody cares
2) Not report it, if you see an infringement, because nobody cares
3) going to do nothing.
That was a very good question; a question many of us wonder about. I think you have taken a good question to task for the wrong reason. An answer to the actual question would be nice.
I have seen Council officers write out tickets, and even Police once (although perhaps for another reason .. no; I didnt ask them).
Those parking spots are fair game, especially around Christmas times. I'd never park in a handicapped spot, but the pram ones? Hell yes.
you are a person that fits my recommendation
I think the sign should be 'Parents with kids'. As many parents don't use the pram at the shops, especially going to supermarkets. They just pop the kid(s) into the shopping trolley. An extra wide parking spot would enable the parent put the child into the car seat and buckle him/her up easier and less chance of the car door hitting the next car.
Also, there are parents using baby capsule to carry their bubs but no pram. It is almost impossible to take the baby capsule in and out of the car in a normal parking spot between 2 cars.