Recently some thieves broke into my house and stole around $2000 worth of stuff. The police were able to identify the thieves due to fingerprints they left at the scene and were eventually able to catch one of them . The person pleaded not guilty to break and enter so it went to court. After waiting over 4 hours for the case to be heard, 5 minutes before we went into the courtroom, the thief changed their plea to guilty and made a deal with the public prosecutor to be fined instead. This was extremely frustrating as not only did I lose a day of work but so did a detective, fingerprint forensics analyst and the beat cop who were associated with the case. Anyhow, the thief was fined half the amount of the stolen goods (they were not able to apprehend their accomplice for the other half). A few months passed and I had not received any money so I contacted the local police station for information. I was told that because the thief was on a pension they cannot afford to pay me back so I have to wear the cost of the stolen good myself (they will not garnish pensions). So it seems that in Queensland if you are on a pension, you can freely break into other people's houses and steal their stuff without any repercussions.
Thief Convicted and Fined but Does Not Have to Pay Me Back as They Are on a Pension
Last edited 16/12/2015 - 12:49
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You are a fool.
tosser
from what I been told, "pension" includes any kind of Centerlink benefits, including the dole
Well you're wrong.
No. Newstart is for the unemployed. Pension is either aged or disability. There are also many other Centrelink payments which are not pensions.
Unfortunately, it is not just Qld it is across Australia.
Any Judgement Debtor has the right to plead for instalment payments as low as $0.20c per week and if they prove that they have no further reasonable capacity they will be granted the request.
Thankfully most pensioners are able to just survive without resorting to this garbage but it's the way of the world. Govt forces people to the poverty line, a few get cunning and create scams, the rest eat cat food because Dog Food is only for special occasions!
What a life.
The govt didnt force them. Their laziness when they were young did.
I don't think it's laziness. If you were to put the average lazy person out of the street with absolutely nothing to their name, most of them would end up finding a way to get back on their feet. Laziness is people won't do any more than they have to. When someone can't even take care of their basic necessities that is something more than lazy. There's a lot of people out there with mental health issues and drug addiction going on that's keeping them back. There are some people who genuinely just prefer to live this way.
If we actually took an unpopular but necessary look at the source of the problems we could reduce the amount of delinquents out there. Particularly with drug addiction. If illicit recreational drugs that they are addicted to was made available to them at an affordable price, perhaps as part of a drug treatment programme with the end goal to weise them off it (but also understanding that's not always possible in every case), then they wouldn't have to steal or commit crime to get their drugs.
As a productive members of our society, we should be glad to give addicts taxpayer-funded treatments and drugs, rather than let them loose on the rest of us to commit crimes and clog up the legal system.
Great post TLOS , take the money out of illicit drugs " free drugs only at a clinic and unable to leave while affected " would definately reduce drug and drug related violent crimes " imo.
Timely thread OP.
We had out car stolen from outside our apartment by a meth dealer (guessing user as well).
The keys ring to with our unit and car keys on it fell out my backpack at our letterbox. Thief must have picked them up and just walked around using the FOB to find the car…
He crashed the car into a fence behind our apartment a few weeks later after being spotted by the police. He got out of the car and bolted, but left his backpack in the car with his drivers licence. Car was written off, we had to pay $1000 excess and had GPS, phone holder/charger etc all taken from the car.Anyways two months later the cops have caught him, he is going to plead guilty, so we have a court date in a months time.
I'm wondering if we can recoup any of the excess?Even if not, I'll be happy for him to be locked away. Caused a lot of trauma to my GF as was her car.
I'm in a similar boat, Open Garage door thieves, security camera footage nailed one whom was know to police. (he refuses to name others) so he is going to cop all the costs of going to court. I have lodged a claim for restitution (with police prosecutor) that will be part of the judgement by Magistrate. I did not know you could do this but after sitting at court for his first hearing, all the retailers prosecuting shoplifters claimed restitution other than return of goods. I rang the detectives and told me to email the costs to replace. Insurance was a no go because of $500 excess. Value stolen is about $500.
What are "Open Garage for thieves"?
He left his garage door open for a thief to get in.
Kind of like leaving your front door unlocked and wide open and then being surprised to come home to an empty house.@jackary: Sorry I meant to write "Open Garage door thieves" like in the post I was replying to. I was checking if people meant they left the garage door open or if they meant that the thieves had a way to open their garage door (perhaps hacking those wireless remotes)
I'm not a lawyer, but I would be double checking your policy. The excess could have been if the other person couldn't be identified. If the other person is identified then maybe there is no excess to pay and you can get a refund. Then it's the insurances' problem to chase the meth head who stole it for money
If the criminal proceedings are over, try the civil approach.
Try the QLD equivalent of Small Claims Tribuneral
screw that! go right to the top! go on Judge Judy
Or Dredd…
or find the Sopranos to take care of it.
To be honest, I laughed when I read your post and I'm sorry about that. I can't believe such a loophole exists! It's so ridiculous that it made me laugh. I feel sorry you though OP and shouldn't have laughed.
"Anyhow, the thief was fined half the amount of the stolen goods"
My intepretation…the thief is fined an amount that would presumeably go toward the cost of the case. So, judge/court gets their fair share. Victim gets nothing? That isn't justice at all.
The judge/court has covered their expenses???… next case, please.
Man… call Judge Judy. That is fubar.
Anyone want to make a vigilante group to go around and beat the crap out of theives? Who wants to get this rockin' again? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guardian_Angels
Bring the berets back in fashion.
https://www.google.com.au/search?q=New+York+Guardian+angels&…
I agree with the court decision of not taking money from the pension
Why? They committed a crime, got caught and therefore they should pay. If they have a source of income, then that should go towards the fine. If they don't, then they should serve jail time. Age should be irrelevant. The law should apply to everyone.
If you're worried about how little money they would have left to live, then they should've thought about it before committing the crime.
If they have a source of income, then that should go towards the fine. If they don't, then they should serve jail time.
It would end up with a lot of poor and unemployed people in the jail. This guy is already getting pension from the state and might actually be unable to pay. Recently an aboriginal woman died in jail for not paying 1000$mfine, there would be more such cases, considering the medical complications of a disabled or aged person. In the end it is simply not worth it.
The thing is most of these people have kids, if you cut their pension, it is really that the kids will suffer. Also if these people have no money they have a tendency to resort to stealing again. Jail is no longer a deterrent for these people, they have no future and therefore not afraid to get locked up.
Anybody else run out of daily negative votes by the time you go to this comment? smack
Humour me - so when this scumbag's pension is being garnished and suddenly they find themself without enough money to pay for rent or even food, what do you think they'll do? That's the logic behind why they don't garnish the pension of a poor person.
It really has nothing to do with the magistrate but the laws that permit people to a minimum standard of living. Even if you were to pursue this with civil action and get a judgement, until such time the defendant gets a job and/or has the means to pay, he would not be required by law to pay the debt or even sell tools of trade, his car if it's valued under $7,000 and things like that. If he's on DSP and out breaking and entering, you can pretty much guarantee he's never going to get a job. It's better to accept life isn't fair, cut your loses and move on.
Personally, I wouldn't even bother calling the police over petty crimes as you're just throwing good money and time after bad, and the police are just as bad as the criminals, if not worse. If you know who did it, better to find them and take back what is yours and as always, deny, deny, deny.
Nah, better not.
@Cazella, may not agree with most of it, except for the police part. my personal experience… I felt they were more interested in issuing the theft statement or certificate for general insurance claim purposes, rather than actually assisting in tracking down the burglary, even though there were identifiable clues. Others already told me, don't expect to get anything back, don't expect the police to catch anyone.
Not keeping it under control may actually keep their jobs going, there's a demand for it.
(If there's no litter, there is no need to pay a cleaner. same logic)
As the government will have me working until I'm 85 (in some crappy job as there will be no professional engineering jobs by then), I won't be able to take advantage of the loophole as I'll be too old and decrepit to get out of the house. Plus I won't have any super worth squat, so I guess I'll have to sell drugs on the doorstep to make ends meet.
Meanwhile my super manager will have retired at 40 to live on his own Island where his super yacht is parked up.
You'll have to work till 85 of you don't save and invest while you are 40.
If you haven't saved all your working life then yeah, suck it up and stop complaining, you should have seen this coming.
cheers for your two cents, Mr Hockey
Rofl
Despite working all my life as a professional engineer and my wife as a teacher, it's still difficult with 2 kids to fund to get the $2mil we need in our supers for a decent retirement at 65.
Or are we saying everyone should live with mum and dad and invest in 5 properties for retirement? Because property investment is guaranteed right?
Or we shouldn't have kids, so whose going to fund the system when we retire?
Would love to know your solution for hard working families.
Bro,
Must be a culture shock to you but I came from a society where the Government does not handout anything, No pension , No medicare nothing, You save for yourself and your family and help others whatever you can. Govt does Squat. So we have to plan and prepare at the cost of sacrificing expenses today to save big time for tomorrow.So it feels natural to rely on yourself and not the government, We are so lucky here in Australia anyway with all the benefits and health care that we have already, Anyway each to their own man.
By All means if you work 40 years and don't have anything saved up because you spent all the two full incomes on raising up kids, well imho you have no right to complain. If you were handicapped or had a major medical condition I'd look upon you favorably but otherwise, sorry dear, but you'll have SUCK it up.
Dont worry about it, by the time you retire australia will be known as little china and you'll be working in a rice paddy …….. at least the food will be nice :-)
I don't understand how they are OK fining someone but then not making them pay back what is owed to the person whose stuff was stolen is to much for them to deal with on their pension.
You are already financially penalising them so why not make them pay for the lot regardless of the pension. Would rather the pay back $1 a week for 10 years then to pay nothing at all.
Also think if they don't want to give up their accomplice then they should he held for the total cost of the offence and not half. Make them cough up the name any way possible.My point exactly…
That light bulb moment when you realise that the police, courts and government are only concerned about getting their end that there is one set of rules for them and another for Joe Citizen. Hear that? That's the magistrate telling the plantiff to go (profanity) himself because he has his hand out and he must be paid before the victim can expect anything.
The court should not have set the penalty to be a fine if they knew the offender would never have to pay it.
There have to be ways to deter this behaviour outside of sending people straight to jail for being poor.Best answer yet.
OP yet to answer why insurance hasn't covered any losses?
I don't see how this is any different to if a normal theif was broke and couldn't pay back. Who relies on getting money back from the theif?
Maybe OP doesn't want to pay for excess and see his insurance go up the next year.
mek them work to pay it off, doing community service or some kind of govt work whole system is a rip off.
They should have the pension cut as far as I'm concerned - they receive nothing.
If you can't be a decent member of society, then they don't deserve the benefits of our society.
I know what I'm doing when I retire
Should divert the pension to you until the debt is paid off. What is the benefit to work hard, just end up paying more taxes. May as well pop out four of five kids, get injured (like our neighbour and his son) and live off and rort the system. Then sit outside and whinge you have no money because you have spent it all on cigarettes and booze. Wait for next centrelink payment day and repeat cycle. Or government and legal system is too soft.
Sigh, the justice system. Last year my car got broken into and I saw 5 teenagers around my car at midnight when I was exiting my gf's house. I called the cops on them and they all got caught about 4 hours later. It turns out the neighbours car got broken into as well + another 8 or so cars in the nearby streets. All of them got off by apologising and community service.
No compensation because they're only teenagers (around 16/17) and their parents aren't forced to foot the bill. I don't understand why theives aren't forced to pay back the damages they have caused. If they're young, make them take a loan with the government and they can pay it off when/if they get a job, earning over a certain limit. If they're adults, definitely make they pay using their existing assests.
Yep exact same thing happened to me last month. Are you located in the S.E melbourne area? A bunch of sudanese kids if I'm right?
Happened to me in Sydney.
Hohoho, million dollar house areas? Next time you should reward the bad boys so that some day they might screw up the judges and the solicitors, or maybe a mafia boss.
I agree stupid isn't it… All kids these days get is a slap on the wrist if they promise not to do it again. They know that as well.
If they or anyone stole something should get a criminal record , a large fine and made to pay for damage repairs and anything they stole that they then sold.
They shouldn't get a loan because if they default on the loan with no assets it'll be the governments problem to pay it.
That way it will scare the hell out of other kids And other criminals and they won't steal or do other stupid stuff
Wow Australia has stupid laws.
I disagree that someone should be allowed to maintain a standard of living.
I'd appeal the decision. Call a lawyer and find out if they can be made to pay or will it just be thrown out because they are on a pension
You call a lawyer then you are likely to lose more money. Probably legal aid?
Yeah legal aid is what I meant
I bet the magistrate would find a way to make things fairer if it was his place that got done
I'd say the problem here is the prosecutor. Why did they cut a deal and let him walk? They must be too lazy to go to court. I'd think the laws are fairly clear, go to jail if you're convicted. And based on your light details, it looks like a slam dunk case to get a conviction, but prosecutor for whatever reason cut a deal. If you really want to go after someone, go after the prosecutor.
talking about the disability pension, what a joke this is, I know there is of course lots of people that do need it for a genuine reasons (I have 2 family members who have had a disability since birth). BUT the amount of ridicules things that you can get it for is just a joke(would be funny, if I was not paying for it as a tax payer).
For example I know a two people who are on a disability pension because they are an alcoholic, yes they get extra money on top of their dole to pay for something they have chosen to do to themselves.
Where is the motivation to stop when they get extra money because they have an addition!!
I'm starting to hate this country, people get offended so easy(whats wrong with being offended) and sensitive (not helped by the media giving air to every wack job with an opinion), no personal responsibility (IE if you run from the cops and crash your car and die it NOT the police's fault!! its your dumm ass fault for running) and we are one of the most heavily taxed nations in the world.
I could go on, Ok rant over
I concur. Look at our "popular PM", WHO HAD THE IDEA of cutting off NBN fibre cables and attach rusted copper trails. How can the social systems go anywhere!
I agree with you about the absurd abuse of the of disability pension, but your complaint about Australia being among the most heavily taxed nations isn't true. On the contrary, Australia is actually considered to be a low taxed nation by OCED standards. If you want to see the most "heavily taxed nations" in the world, I would suggest taking a look at Scandinavian countries.
"considered be a low taxed nation" sorry but that's just not true, not sure if you have been drinking the governments kool aid. Yes there are some nations that have a higher tax rate (as I said) but even by OCED standards we are above average.
Also you mention Scandinavia yes they have high tax and benefits in some cases are to much, BUT some things they get for their tax: If you lose your job in Sweden, you can receive 80% of your wages for the first 200 days, dropping to 70% for the following 100 days. In Norway, you will receive 62% of your previous salary for up to two years. Other benefits Free dental care, parental leave, child allowance, study allowance(who would think wanting the next generation actual to keep studying), elderly care subsidised ec, I could go on.
Also Scandinavian country's always rank in the tope 5 of best governed in the world, in relation to employment, growth, innovation, among other things.
Innovation is another bug bear, I feel that Australia living in the stone age and have not for along time looked at the big picture. Its always governments thought "what can I do In the next 4 years to get re-elected". … I could go on
No. Our overall tax burden is below average compared to OCED standards. Pretty much nobody disputes that except for people like you who cherry pick income taxes and pretend that's the only tax (I can understand why you might think this if you're not at the top of the tax tier) that exists. Seriously, as somebody who is a high income earner I can tell you now that even those of us who are at technically at the topmost tier don't pay the rates we're supposed to. Here's a nifty chart comparing our tax-to-GDP ratio compared to other OCED countries. That's a far more effective metric the tax burden of a population than simply using income taxes alone.
As for the better benefits in Sweden, it's pretty obvious why that happens. I think you're underestimating just how much of a difference there is in terms of the aggregate tax people pay between Australia and Sweden. At no point could you even consider our two countries to be in the same league. It shouldn't be surprising that they have much better benefits than we do.
And before somebody states it - you can't really blame inefficient money drains like the PS for the relative lack of benefits (RELATIVE) in this country either. Heck, our public sectoris actually extremely efficient at what they do.
Just to tell a story of mine. Last month our house was robbed of 3 cars. A group of crooks came into our house, took the keys to our cars, opened the garage door and drove off. We have since recovered the cars but they have all been damaged in one way or the other (huge scratches, dents, inside the car was trashed and damaged).
Most of the purpetrators have been caught and will go to trial, but the coppers told us the chance of us getting any restitution for the damages were very slim because….they were minors.
So the panel-beaters quoted us $2500 to fix all 3 cars, and that doesnt include a digital camera and a GPS unit that was stolen as well as $600 we had to pay for the towing of the cars from where they found to the police station where we had to pick them up from. All up maybe $4k out of our pocket.
So I guess if you have children, you can train them to break into other peoples houses, steal whatever they want and they won't have to pay a cent because they are kids!
To the OP, how did you know when the court date was? And were you required to be there? I wasn't told about the date of the court hearing and when I asked, I was told it wasn't a good idea to attend them, even voluntarily.
Apparently these kids are pretty infamous for doing the exact same things for a while now, and apparently they crashed and killed a woman before so I really dont get why these kids are getting off so easily.
Sorry to hear your story. Australia legal system really sucks. And lucky you your panel beaters are really honest, charged you only $2.5k for the cars.
I don't get it. If person A causes damage to person B's car then the insurance company will chase person A('s insurance company) for the excess. In cases like yours and OPs why don't the insurance companies chase caught criminals for it???
Same reason no one else does. The costs involved far outweigh any potential gains from chasing pensioners for money. The chances of recovering anything from them is pretty close to zero.
So? That should be the insurance company's problem, not the poor victims.
Can insurance companies follow it up with minors? I think the only reason why there isn't much that is being done is purely because the crooks were pensioners or minors. More needs to be done besides sending them off the community service; such light punishments are just asking for a repeat offence, until they end up killing someone over it.
And you know something funny? A couple of days ago I got a visit from the police for stealing petrol at the servo (the crook who stole my car ran off after putting fuel in), so the police comes knocking at my house for a $80 fine, but when we need restitution for a few thousand dollars, suddenly they cannot help you. Wut?
How ridiculous - I'm glad you are able to find that funny!
My question is "could the pension run fast?"
What i've figured out is, well repeat offenders are repeat business for the legal system. I've been to court for driving offenses. The question that still baffles me is the one the judge asks before making up their mind how much to fine you, "are you working ?". The most memorable one would have been the guy before me. He had been to court numerous times for domestic violence. The police officer was stating the case. He beat on his wife in front of their children. Long story short, he got off free. No fine, no remand, no jail time.
I understand that me driving unlicensed was breaking the law, i accept my punishment. But to let someone who could potentially kill someone back out on the street ? Made no sense to me.
What the… seen ads about domestic violence lately, you would think it is something the law would try to discourage.
Yeah it's true. Ive noticed the punishments for bashing random ppl is 100 times harsher than bashing your partner. It seems accepted legally that bashing your partner is somehow a lesser or more acceptable offence than hitting a random. I have no idea why. In my opinion, it should be frowned upon more to beat someone who is in a vulnerable position such as a gf but that isn't the way the law seems to work. I should declare im a legal typist and listen to various cases all day every day so that is the basis of where im coming from.
Sorry to hear that op. That is pretty screwed outcome. This is where knowning some bad people, which I don't know any, that can "recover " some costs for u plus interest. They pay up or they payyyy >:/ (that's my evil face lol not very good wif these).
I guess in all a lesson learned buy contents insurance if u can afford it. Good luck.THat thief should have had his hand cut off. Works in the middle-east.
does it though? should we also stone adulterers to death then since u think the middle east is such an exemplar of a model judicial system?
Yes, maybe Australia will have less pedophiles, rapists and murderers.
Electrocution or lethal injection is more my style.
This willl make great ACA story…Just tell them to pay you the 2K and you can tell your story!
I wouldn't worry too much, the universe has a way of balancing things out. Karma and all that
Somewhere out there theres probably an innocent man, rotting away in jail for a crime he didn't commit. Balance
You really must have a miserable life.
That's exactly the reason when you buy a house you should avoid housing commissions neighborhood. Funny recent housing boom put a lot of people into buying houses without second thought.
So what about if the OP himself was on a pension? Would the judge still leave him out of pocket?
Then OP is screwed, because he has over 2k savings hence no pensions maybe!
In Australia, the government is pretty soft on criminals. Many of the small time burglars are most likely on drugs and pensions of some sort, they are not afraid to go to jail. They probably get better meal and healthcare whilst in jail than out of it. On average it costs the government around 70,000 AUD to 80,000 AUD to keep people locked up in jail per year. So for petty criminals, the government elect to let them run loose on the community.
However, the increase in petty crime rates are alarming, affected by high living cost, high housing cost and lack of jobs in some areas.
Maybe they should rob your place. You dear sir are a clown.
Not such a bad idea. I am running out of space to store all my Ozbargain purchases! :P
You're an idiot and I sincerely hope they robbed your place and leave nothing but your old underwear.
Well it was only $2,000 that is not much.
Don't you have contents insurance? If you had no cover serve yourself right for not insuring your home.
The poor guy who stole your stuff might have issues with drugs or a mental illness. We really don't need to put more petty criminals in our prisons.
IF you don't want your items stolen buy cheaper products or have better security.
What has God have to do with it? Seriously people of faith are so naive and contradictory.
God did not stop this person from being robbed. On the same context many religions do not encourage greed. So the fact that this person is complaining about losing their material items and not being grateful that they were not physically attacked or harmed proves my point. Perhaps we should stone this thief.
As for insurance I stand by such comments. $2,000 is not much as a few years of home and contents insurance would total the same and if this person was not so tight they would have protected themselves by having insurance.
OP, in order to pursue the offender for costs, you need to take them to court as a civil matter. It will be in the small claims court / district court in your state. It would be a slam-dunk case even in small claims court if you represented yourself. Go speak to a lawyer for advice though. The first visit with them is almost always free, even if you don't engage them.
I've had a similar situation but a slightly different result so I can share your frustration. Someone caused damage to my property. Reported it to the police, person was fired from their job and then was unable to pay. I made a civil claim against them and after some time was able to garnish some of their funds to resolve the issue.
It was a frustrating process. In other countries they send a "broker" to resolve the issue.
Broken laws, inept judges, Australia soft on crime …. nothing new really.
Best invest in a good alarm system and some surveillance cameras.
China has better justice system… He would end up in jail if he did that in china and The best thing about china is…
If the offender can't pay you the loss, THE GOVERNMENT WILL PAY IT FOR U
So ignorant smh