Recently some thieves broke into my house and stole around $2000 worth of stuff. The police were able to identify the thieves due to fingerprints they left at the scene and were eventually able to catch one of them . The person pleaded not guilty to break and enter so it went to court. After waiting over 4 hours for the case to be heard, 5 minutes before we went into the courtroom, the thief changed their plea to guilty and made a deal with the public prosecutor to be fined instead. This was extremely frustrating as not only did I lose a day of work but so did a detective, fingerprint forensics analyst and the beat cop who were associated with the case. Anyhow, the thief was fined half the amount of the stolen goods (they were not able to apprehend their accomplice for the other half). A few months passed and I had not received any money so I contacted the local police station for information. I was told that because the thief was on a pension they cannot afford to pay me back so I have to wear the cost of the stolen good myself (they will not garnish pensions). So it seems that in Queensland if you are on a pension, you can freely break into other people's houses and steal their stuff without any repercussions.
Thief Convicted and Fined but Does Not Have to Pay Me Back as They Are on a Pension
Last edited 16/12/2015 - 12:49
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Not only that, the thief was only fined for the value of their share of the stolen goods!
It seems there's no financial risk to burglary:
Steal $1000,
get caught, pay back $1000, no loss, or
don't get caught, profit $1000.
O_O
One of the things I do not like about this great country is criminals getting a very lenient sentence:
a. drunk driver killing another driver - suspended sentence
b. one punch killer - behavior bond
c. molester/ sexual predator - parole
d. rapist - 3 years in jailAn accountant who stole $500,000 - gets 5 years in jail, does not have to pay the money back. Basically, earn $100,000 per year with free food and accommodation!!!
Don't even get me started on how unfair the legal system is here. Do the right thing , be a good citizen and get screwed over by those who break the law but get a rap on the knuckles for it (if that). Walk in the street and you might get robbed, bashed or raped, criminal gets a few months if that.
Try running a shop, you get stolen from on a daily basis and there is nothing you can do about it. First you have to catch them red handed. Then you have to make sure you don't get assaulted when you confront them. Then you have to wait around for the cops to arrive. Then you see if the officer on duty even bothers to take it further . More than half the time they do not. If , and that's a big if, it proceeds to a prosecution they get no punishment anyway.
Rapists get a maximum of 10 years in jail? Is it more now?
@lousy:
At least we don't live somewhere where bombs are raining down on us because of some stupid fight over religion or land.This is what happen when the Tolerance is Abused!!
1.However, If they feel tremendous guilt after and willing to "pay it back" informally to the victim, then that's fine (Because that's like the standard of human being)
2.But if they will do it again and again until there is a significant consequences, then that's the true scum of the earth! (primitive behaviour, and inhumane)
Or claim you had 9 accomplices and you only pay $100
Actually would make it $200
@Scrooge McDuck: I think the understanding is that the amount came to $1000 because of 2 suspected perpetrators, therefore $2000/2 = $1000.
Therefore if they suspected 10 of them, $2000/10 = ???
Step 4: Profit
seriously in a sense you shouldnt spill it. now after all the sarcasm some people may consider the loophole for real.
And yes, talking about Justice and legal system..sigh
Disgraceful. If you get a speeding fine and don't pay it, then you may eventually go to jail for non-payment of fines.
https://www.sper.qld.gov.au/ They can make them pay it back at $5 per fortnight for rest of their life. I have ex pay me back from went i was 21 year old. i get buy time i am 45 year old. 2000 something I forget.
Shouldn't your insurance cover that?
Not if you didnt buy home and content inso. Not everyone buys that.
That's actually a terrible view to take… We pay taxes to run a Police Department and a Court of Law. Do we not expect that this system should actually be able to right some wrongs? The person who is now down $2000 is still disadvantaged? Why do we pay taxes if all we should be buying is Insurance?
Because we may need to pay more taxes if people don't buy insurance.
That proves the authority is the same as thieves. They rob you under the name of tax while thieves steal from you in the name of pension.
And WTF who negged your comment?
I am the negger
And who pays for the excess?
Yep, this is a biggie.
Got burgled 18 months ago and had the usual stolen (laptop, tablet). Unfortunately my excess is $500 so while it would still have been 'worth it' to claim as the stolen items would cost more than $500 to replace I didn't really have $500 spare at the time… not to mention probably then having to pay higher premiums forever after.
It's also nice to know though that my items were probably flogged at a pub, gumtree or a cash converters for about $50 each I was left with no laptop, no tablet, a $500 excess to replace and a door that needed significant repairs.
What a country, you can be a crook and still get a pension.
Refusing to give people pensions for crimes that are normally committed by poorer people will only serve to increase the number of crimes like shoplifting and theft.
Using this story as an example, the cost to the taxpayer of enforcing this increase in crime would be greater than the money saved by receiving a pension
Except that pension or not, there doesn't seem to be a disincentive for this person to repeat offend.
Odds are he'll steal again, and the taxpayer will fork out the cost either way.A financial incentive in this isolated case, no, there doesn't appear to be a disincentive.
However a judge is entitled to make judgements based on prior convictions. If the person becomes a repeat offender, it is highly likely they will have suspended sentence bonds issued (which may have been the case in this matter), a drivers license disqualification, or even time in prison. Crimes like this often have penalties that can be either a fine, or a term of imprisonment, but the judge has discretion in what to apply, and the first instance of being caught is likely a deterrant for the offender.
Also not to mention that each time a person commits a crime and are taken to court, they are (usually) arrested, spend time in custody, have meetings with public defenders. All of these impact on the quality of life of the accused. Not to mention that they have likely harmed any chance of volunteering anywhere requiring a National Police Certificate.
If there was no disincentive for people to commit such crimes whilst on the pension, then the first we are hearing about repeat offenders taking advantage of the system would not be on an Ozbargain forum topic in 2015.
@pernunz:
Police already had this crims fingerprints according to OP- so repeat offender or at least linked to another crime/s@MITM: Not necessarily. A persoon can be fingerprinted for a variety of reasons, including being identified when applying for a National Police Certificate.
There are lots of issues with identity in Policing databases because people lie in trying to escape punishment (a common example is using a fake ID)
Imagine you're John Smith DOB 01/01/1980, and you've got no criminal history (but you're on the Police database because you once reported your car broken into). When applying for a National Police Certificate you might be linked to a John Smith DOB 10/01/1980 who has an extensive criminal history. (And, a police officer entered his DOB as 01/01/1980 one time because they were exhausted after a long shift and they just wanted to enter the data quickly)
One way to prove your innocence to get the NPC (so you can work) is to have your fingerprints taken, which an innocent person would see as the quickest way to resolve the issue
Also, people are fingerprinted (and DNA taken) when arrested or accused, and that does not mean that someone has committed a crime (take a false accusation that leads to an arrest)
It is quite hard to get those details removed from the state based systems, and it may not get removed from the national system.
I'm not justifying what the accused in this case has done, just outlining the possibilities for why his fingerprints might exist on the database.
@berry580: Not on an individual level, but if hundreds of pensioners were stealing from thousands of houses and only getting fines as a punishment, then there would be a wider issue which would be newsworthy.
In this example, the thief will offend again unless there is a deterrent. Be that as a cut in pension, jail or something else. If he can afford to pay the fine, why does he need pension (I understand pension is given for many different reasons but if that person is committing crime then there needs a deterrent). IMHO
If only there was a far away island we could plonk them on…
@Scrooge McDuck:
And everyone else who shirks responsibity, or cheats. Big Island -> Australia? LOL.
Some become a crook so they can get a "pension*". *an all expense paid stay in jail.
I think you just defined a politician.
Yeah, yeah, I know. A cheap swipe at politicians.
The sunniest place for the shadiest people (in Queensland anyway)
Australia has it all wrong, work wise. if you work hard, you get taxed really high marginal tax rates, up to 49% (inclding ML + BRL) of your income. And you get rewarded with no pension later on in retirement.
If you idle away you time now, be as lazy as you can, you get dole money, and you will qualify for numerous allowances (like Newstart) and Centrelink payments and eventually receive the age pension too.
And still those politicians cry and complain when people migrate here to sustain the fragile australian economy!
Are people who plead guilty to stealing things not required to return the goods on top of the fine?
Probably traded for drugs.
Yep, I guarantee it. They no longer had the goods apparently and the police were unable to recover them.
I find that ridiculous! Basically pensioners can do whatever they want? …..
Including eating dog food.
And flying business class.
No.
Wtf ?@fwdcelica:
Just humerous sarcasm ;-> supporting airzones comment.
Meaning pensioners are seriously disadvantaged. They can't do what they want.
We can argue, police, pollies, corporations ad infinitum can do what ever they like…, using near endless examples. Why generalise because of the few bad eggs.
Most pensioners are over 65 and retired… So physically, probably not.
Offender was on a pension, not a pensioner.
Possible to sue them?
For what? The court will find them incapable of paying any amount…so you will end up spending more time and money.
And they can afford the fine?
What a pathetic outcome. Sorry you had to deal with this bullshit. Its a strange country when you are basically rewarded for not working and stealing other peoples stuff
That's sound like Swedish (and some "socialist" country) as well , am I right?
The abuse of a courtesy. There should be a line drawn at least
bs, but if it was a police fine they'd make sure you pay every single cent off
Exactly. And you'll be sent to jail if you don't pay it.
BS how people can not only get away with doing nothing, but they can get away with doing anything
It's not about getting away with doing nothing, it's about getting paid for it!
Like the AustPost chief??
Insurance?
While the OP may be entitled the fact is that this disadvantages ALL those people who take out insurance, as it adds to increase in their premiums
Then what's the point of having insurance?
Well of course the OP can claim, but it maybe he doesn't have home & contents or has a high excess threshold etc
My point is even if he does claim (and by the sounds deserves full compensation) the loss to the Insurance company is made up by everybody who takes out insurance because the premiums go up to pay for it
the loss to the Insurance company is made up by everybody who takes out insurance because the premiums go up to pay for it
@Wally: Well, yes it does but it's not a deciding factor at all when making a claim. Do you ever think "Aww, my claim is going to increase everyone else's premiums. Maybe I shouldn't…" Don't be ridiculous.
@ronnknee: well yeah, just like car insurance.. you check the cost/damage overall.
I always thought contents insurance is useful if i lost tens of thousands of dollars worth of goods, but $1-2K worth.. perhaps it's not worth the excess and premium hike?
@ronnknee: I think you missed the point. Wally is not saying he should base his decision to claim on whether or not it will increase other peoples premiums. He is just stating a fact.
@tailgatinholden: Yes, you would assess if the loss is greater than the excess to make the decision of claiming. That's not what Wally is saying. He's implying that one shouldn't make a claim at all because it drives the insurance premiums for everyone else.
See how you go with this http://www.courts.qld.gov.au/courts/magistrates-court/money-…
I'm in a similar boat, Open Garage door thieves, security camera footage nailed one whom was know to police. (he refuses to name others) so he is going to cop all the costs of going to court. I have lodged a claim for restitution (with police prosecutor) that will be part of the judgement by Magistrate. I did not know you could do this but after sitting at court for his first hearing, all the retailers prosecuting shoplifters claimed restitution other than return of goods. I rang the detectives and told me to email the costs to replace. Insurance was a no go because of $500 excess. Value stolen is about $500.
Thanks!
Partner's credit card info was stolen. Used to make a couple of purchases online up to a little more than 1K.
Made a police report and got one of the online store to give us the delivery particulars for the purchase (was somebody with an Adelaide address and we know that the credit card info thief might not be the same as the person on the delivery particulars).
Same thing, updated the police with everything we know. They informed us that my partner would have to travel interstate to testify in order to take the case further. Did not have the time to do it so we just settled with getting a police report to get the credit card company to refund the purchases.
I don't know if the online stores can do anything to recover their costs (one of them did manage to cancel the order before shipping) but it seems to me that the friction in the judicial system just means people are just going to get away with doing such stuff.
Did you not report this to your bank? The bank covers the cost…
We did. No problems with the bank on our side. My comment was that it seems that there are almost no consequences for people who do such stuff.
I feel the same way but I get the impression credit card companies/banks more or less can't be bothered following up.
About seven or eight years ago I had a significant charge appear on my AMEX account (I usually check it nightly, and while the descriptive charge wasn't showing I could see the available credit had plunged).
I rang AMEX to report it and they were as disinterested as you could get. Was I sure I hadn't spent $900 renting bicycles on the other side of the city? Yes, very sure. Really sure? Yes. Have you forgotten perhaps? No. I don't ride bikes!
I assumed they blocked it but no. Next day another $500 on liquor from a shop again on the other side of the city. This time they finally did something. The whole time I was just thinking… you better not even think of billing me for any of this. They wouldn't give me meaningful details either so couldn't 'investigate' myself.
The police were a bit more useful but basically just saying 'yeah, AMEX are like that'.
bikies -oh wait, you're in Queensland. you'll have to settle for cyclists.
Lol
Edit: more lol, replied to wrong commentI would rather mess with an angry mob of bikies than an angry mob of cyclists.
If you worded this correctly you could almost post this in the deals section.
Lol
Title of Bargain Post:
if (you don't get caught){
+ $2000 profit ;
}else if (you get caught && you're on pension ){
+ $1000 profit
if (the victim able to get public affair){
- a shaming with Facebook Viral post
}}
else (){
+ nuthing
- shame and stigma
}end;
gold!
tl;dr Crime Does Not Pay
Does Pay?
"Criminals do not pay" maybe.
What kind of pension? Disability or aged? If they are on disability and break in to your house clearly they are not disabled.
Clearly you don't know what disabled people are and are not capable of.
yes the symbol for disabled parking spots and toilets is a wheelchair but no, being unable to walk is not the only form of disability. e.g. a mitochondrial disorder or other energy problem/fatigue condition could let someone use their entire available energy pool just to scramble in your window and make off with your jewellry but they would then have pain and inability to move for days afterwards.
there are SO many kinds of disability, be thankful you aren't acquainted with a bunch of them :)For years I had to deal with ignorant people glaring at me for using disabled parking spaces before my lungs were transplanted.. I often never had the energy (literally) to explain so just flipped them the bird.
My wife is going through this right now. She looks perfectly healthy. If only you could see the condition of her lungs. She's actually had people approach her and abuse her for it, ending in her coming home in tears just from a quick trip to the shop. Yes there are people that scam this system, but just consider, the majority are not.
It used to affect me too. These days I hold so much contempt for the average meathead Australian citizen that it would just bounce off me.
I hope everything goes smoothly with your wife.
@Iggemo: Yes she does. That doesn't stop them though. Whether they've actually looked for the tag or not, who knows. But because she looks well, that seems to give people the right to have a go. She barely has the energy to actually go to the shops (stubborn), let alone argue the point.
Playing games is actually quite tiring if played competively.
And if you're 120kg+
Wow, that's one hell of a loophole. I hope you get something sorted, fingers crossed.