Harvey Norman refusing refund on defective product (under warranty, discontinued product) Need Help!

tunzafun001 on 03/01/2015 - 14:42

Just went to return a kettle (Morphy Richards $118). Leaked on to electronics. Had returned 6 months ago, same problem. Harveys informed us that they no longer stock the item, & that we could have a store credit. Not interested in the other rubbish they had, we said we will just take a refund as per Aus Consumer Law & go buy a kettle elsewhere. They refused, citing no manager on site to authorize a refund and further "that we were being unreasonable" not accepting the credit, and we can just come back another time. What do you do in this situation. Clearly no value of our time, or rights. The store is down playing their legal responsibility based on no manager? Police would have no interest?? How do we make these Cowboys who think they are above the law accountable?

Electrical & Electronics

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  • paulojr on 03/01/2015 - 21:03
    +5

    In this case I agree with you OP on all points based on what I've read so far. Harvey Norman are rat bags to deal and their sales staff are generally untrained in the consumer code (amongs other important things one would expect a sales person to be trained in ;). You are under no obligation to return again after being refused once unless they assure you that a refund will be issues on the spot (and in theory should cover transport costs). They should not be opening up their doors to trade unless they are ready to abide by consumer laws (e.g. a manager who understands the laws is present while trading).

    I can tell you though last time I had to deal with Harvey I went through this same BS for a few months and in the end engaged consumer affairs as Harvey kept playing the "manager has to approve but is not available" game every time I tried. The process was very simple once Consumer Affairs came onboard. Consumer Affairs contacted Harvey, reminded them of the law and immediately got a positive response, refund was issued in a couple weeks with no further questions and a delivery truck came to pickup their faulty goods. (Note this was a pretty expensive item, several thousand)

    If you can be bothered, or if its really stressing you, here is what I'd suggest:

    1. Request they agree to a refund up front and give you an agreement before having to return to the store (e.g. email the store managed for confirmation) Use the letter of demand template that is somewhere on their the consumer affairs site..

    2. Failing this happening in a timely fashion engage consumer affairs next and ask for them to negotiate.

    Note, how harvey may handle this would be quite different to how say The Good Guys work, who rarely listen to Consumer Affairs (well until the ACCC fine them like they did MSY, hopefully that day is coming soon as they the bad guys sorely need a good kick in the bottom) so I wouldn't give this advise for other companies as it all depends on whether their management respects consumer law or not. Last time I checked Harvey's senior management were not stupid enough to go against the code when a third party is engaged.

    Also as pal suggests, the lesson is needed, so even though this is only a $118 item I think we all benefit each time a retailer is brought to honour the code. (again referring to MSY, who have significantly improved in warranty support since they were fined)

    cheers.

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 00:42
      +3

      Cheers mate. When directed to the acting manager, she was reading the ACL website and then read it to me aloud in an angry voice. I was very confused as she just yelled my exact claim? Then says she isn't a lawyer & doesn't understand it. So I guess it does demonstrate that none of this info is in their training. It seems like the ACL is something that only needs to be followed if someone asks, and only if there is a suitable staff member to understand it. So yep, I would like their bottom reminded of which country they are selling in & their obligations. Chance of being reimbursed for lost income and travel costs on Monday would be zero I recon, but there is a mention of it in the ACL. Would like to know how many others have been given the "sorry, no manager to authorise" line before? Seems this may be in the training?? Also, would be good to have a name & shame a retailer section on OzBarg. I've had some amazing experience with Supercheap Auto. 0/3 with Harvey's.

      • paulojr on 04/01/2015 - 12:32
        +2

        Looks like you really have hit a crook of a store manager.

        Read this, I just found this on their website under returns on each product!

        "If you feel your product has failed a Consumer Guarantee (as defined by Australian Consumer Law) then don't worry you can easily return it to your local Harvey Norman store. We'll even pay for the postage if you live in an area where there is no store. Our returns policy covers any purchased item"

        so they need to pay postage back if your not close to a harvey norman.

        I also have had the experience with TGG (Essendon) where they said a high end fridge should only last 12 months (despite the extended warranty and manufacturing warranty being 2 and 5 years) and where the consumer affairs have a case studying indicating a Fridge should last no less than 11 years. They also misread most of the conditions of the law and claim that they did not need to pay for faults even after having a certified repairer confirm the faults in writing to them (one of their own authorised repairers too!). I'm not sure if its simple criminal mindedness or stupidity but I've hit it a few times so can easily see how you might have hit a manager with this mentality just trying to make lots of profit for their commission and not worried about customers.

        Another option is try calling another store.. if what is written on their website is true, then you should be able to deal with a more human manager at another store, sorry I don't know of any good harvey normans to deal with. They can't all be crims can they? or is that a requirement of the role? ;)

        Oh, by the way if they are hiding their contact email harvey uses this format for store managers.
        e.g. [email protected] is a real example, so if you can get their full name put it in front of the @au.harveynorman.com with a dot in between the names and it should go through. Winston is/was one of the "troublesome" managers I've dealt with before out at maribynong so he's unlikely to be help but at least that's a real example. Hmm.. maybe CC in their senior management and board? That would be fun.

        p.s. Totally love the idea of a name and shame section on OzB, somewhere we can identify retailers or products to keep clear of with some detail of how they operate or what the concerns are.

  • netsurfer on 03/01/2015 - 21:42
    +2

    Try calling the store again and ask to speak to the manager. Hopefully, the manager will agree to a refund. Make sure you get the manager's detail and find out when he will be at the store physically. I found Harvey Norman staff very inconsistent. If you talked to a staff who agreed to give you a refund on the phone, but that person is not there by the time you reach the store, you need to go through the whole negotiation process again with another staff. The other staff may/can be a real pain in the neck.

    Or, call the head office. Perhaps the head office can put some pressure on the store manager.

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 00:53
      +1

      In a common sense world I woukd agree. However, Ive noticed that Not revealing headoffice or store numbers seems to be more common practice these days (for example, most Australia Post outlets are no longer contactable by phone). I tried ringing a Harvey head office number, got diverted to another normal store and I wasn't allowed any of the supposed missing managers details. (Most likely because they don't exist).

      • This Guy on 04/01/2015 - 02:30
        +1

        Staff are entilted to privacy and time away from work.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/01/2015 - 11:22
          +4

          While a manager is away - procedures and resources should be in place for another staff member to be acting manager.

        • This Guy on 04/01/2015 - 23:11

          @Michegianni:

          OP said the acting manager didn't know how to do refunds and the manager/s weren't in.

          It was a Saturday two days after new year’s. The only reason for a real manager being absent is something personally important came up. It happens.

          After all, if the acting manager decided to repair the item it could have taken a month.

        • GaryQ on 05/01/2015 - 07:56

          HN works on a commission basis
          Any refund pulls the commission already paid out of the Sales person's pay cheque on the next pay run. The sales people try to make it as hard as possible to refund anything so they cover each other's backs

          I had a waterproof camera that got wet the first time I used it. I went in there 3 times with them saying I must have had the battery compartment open etc… finally they sent it to Sony and 6 weeks later offered me a replacement camera. I said no chance, it doesn't work and I dont want to risk losing more pics. Finally refunded the price after I spent approx 3 hours hassling them over 4 visits.

          After the first visit, the FM could suddenly be found after I refused to leave until the matter was resolved.

  • diddy50 on 04/01/2015 - 00:35
    +8

    Seriously police?!? My god

  • sa-ozzie on 04/01/2015 - 00:47
    +2

    Advise Harvey Norman you are going to make a complaint in writing to the ombudsman.It costs a company $200 every time the ombudsman recieves a complaint ..companies usually find it is cheaper to settle with the customer

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 01:04

      Yep, that is a given (I assume you mean consumer affairs?) Seems that people are using the ACL these days as a threat, and that is so sadly wrong. I know my rights, they read them on the screen & then chose to ignore. Sadly for such a little sum…not sure what their motivation is. Perhaps management are penalised for refunding / lose commission etc? After all, it's obviously my fault the item is faulty (that's how they expected to me to think, not we are sorry u had to come back here twice already)

      • lorenzo on 05/01/2015 - 17:30
        +1

        |I know my rights

        Do you? I infer from your song and dance about not being given an immediate refund that you believe your rights include being given an immediate refund when you appear at their store without notice.

        Do you actually have any reason to believe you have that right?

        • 2025 on 05/01/2015 - 19:52
          +3

          The law says they must provide a refund. That upon notification the consumer returns the goods, and the supplier provides a refund.

          (4) The supplier must, in accordance with an election made by the
          consumer:
          (a) refund:
          (i) any money paid by the consumer for the goods; and
          (ii) an amount that is equal to the value of any other
          consideration provided by the consumer for the goods;
          or
          (b) replace the rejected goods with goods of the same type, and
          of similar value, if such goods are reasonably available to the
          supplier.

          See: The Australian Consumer Law Schedule 2
          Enforcement and remedies Chapter 5
          Remedies relating to guarantees Part 5-4
          Action against suppliers of goods Subdivision A
          Section 263

          The law says I must stop for a stop sign. It doesn't say I must immediately stop. It doesn't say I must stop when I feel like it. It simply says "(1) A driver at an intersection with a stop sign or stop line, but without traffic lights, must stop and give way in accordance with this rule."

          By your reasoning I will blast through the next sign, simply because it doesn't say I had to do it immediately, I'll just do it next time im in the area…

        • lorenzo on 05/01/2015 - 22:58
          +2

          @bigjezza:

          The road rule you quote specifies that you have to stop when you "are at an intersection with a stop sign". It is unambiguous that you need to do so every time.

          Why you thought the road rules were a decent analogy for the ACL, well that isn't as clear.

        • 2025 on 05/01/2015 - 23:26

          @lorenzo: "you are at an intersection with a stop sign" = "an election made by the consumer"

          263 (1) This section applies if, under section 259, a consumer notifies a supplier of goods that the consumer rejects the goods.
          (4) The supplier must, in accordance with an election made by the consumer: a. Refund.

          So I mean:

          you arrive at a stop sign: It says MUST stop.

          AND

          a customer notifies you and elects a option: it says MUST refund

          the must is conditional on something happening before it. Either arriving at a stop sign OR customer making a choice.

        • Tal_Shiar on 06/01/2015 - 05:52

          @bigjezza: what does all that have to do with Harvey Norman needing to have someone on site at all times to issue refunds when a customer wants one?

        • 2025 on 06/01/2015 - 09:00

          @Tal_Shiar:

          Im just pointing out that in the consumer law it says must refund. In the road rules it says must stop. The only timeframe it gives to stop is "when at a stop sign"
          The only timeframe for the acl is "when the consumer rejects the goods."

          Why is one immediate and the other not?

          Its common sense that if the law says you must do something you do it as soon as possible.

        • tunzafun001 on 06/01/2015 - 12:26
          +2

          @bigjezza:

          Lorenzo / Tal Shiar

          My 2 cents. If the law doesn't stipulate a time, then it is infered as at the time of the action. For example, if it said replace,repair or refund within 48hrs, then yes the seller could postpone the refund. No such extra time clauses are stipulated.
          A legit business should be able to recognise its a faulty item (in no way the customers fault), realise they cant repair and have no replacemen..so then offer an immediate refund. We are talking about Harvey Norman here. At the very LEAST The current highest ranked manager should be able to pick up the phone and ring someone in the Harvey Norman chain and get an authorisation to refund. If you don't believe this is an orchestrated method to make customers go "oh, I'll just take the store credit" (which has an expiry), because I can't come back when I'm working Monday, then I'm never going to convince you.

        • lorenzo on 06/01/2015 - 17:16
          +1

          @bigjezza:

          It's hilarious that you seem to think that a Judge would turn their mind the road rules when interpreting the provisions of the ACL. There's reasons that case law, y'know, exists, and one of those is that you don't have to draw wild inferences from fundamentally different legislation.

          The answer, should you be interested to actually know it, is that the refund must be actioned within a reasonable time, and that what is reasonable will depend on the circumstances. Yes, you still have to stop at the stop sign when you get to it. Again, they are different laws.

          No, the ACCC is not going to go after a retailer because they informed the purchaser that the refund could not occur that day, unless there is an established track record of the retailer doing that for nefarious purposes (which I acknowledge is plausible).

    • pmupsinep on 04/01/2015 - 22:25

      No it doesn't.

  • wyrmy on 04/01/2015 - 01:22
    +2

    Did a refund at HN yesterday and got a surprisingly positive result. After reading so many past negative OzB posts on HN refunds I did expected some serious resistance.

    Bought a tower fan from the chadstone shop after a chat with the sales lady, but got it home and found design flaws which wasn't noticed in shop and made it a pretty crap product in my opinion. Taked to them the next day and the instant the guy classified it as a "change of mind" he said absolutely no refunds. After I said it was sold to me based on requirements which it didnt meet, he tried it pass it off as me ignoring the sales advice (they put sales assistance name on receipt) and picking the wrong product. This was probably the only intial dodgy behaviour on his part and started turning into wordplay semantics.

    Very long story short (about 1 hour on phone and in store wait), I was polite held my ground and pointed out a few things:
    * only reason I shop in store and not online for cheaper is because I get helpful advice from staff. In this case it was clear the staff didnt know the product well as it was just released.
    * The fan I was returning was no longer on display so they have nothing to lose by refunding me and putting my fan back on display (saves opening another resellable item).
    * I would happily pay more for the better suitable model (which they didnt stock in their catalogue)

    I even compromised in the end and proposed a store credit, but he ended up approving a full refund. Guess I got lucky with decent staff members, or had a way with words. Either way they retain my shopping loyalty (for now).

    • mooney on 04/01/2015 - 08:50
      +10

      I can see you got a good outcome, but looking at the whole process it looked like a bloody nightmare still.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/01/2015 - 01:47
    +3

    OP - try their Facebook. Post your experience, see what they have to say?

    https://www.facebook.com/HarveyNormanAU

    Though, now that I'm looking at the "posts to page"… they're all suspiciously positive and praising of HN. Can't see one negative post yet.

    Hopefully they don't filter out posts which show them in a less favourable light. But if you do post about your issue, I'd say try and keep calm first - might result in a better outcome than if your post to their page is angry etc (not assuming yours will be - but obviously your situation is a frustrating one).

    Expensive kettle, too :P

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 21:44
      +3

      Filtered!!

      • [Deactivated] on 04/01/2015 - 22:01
        +1

        Yeah. Thought so. Dodgy.

  • mic180802 on 04/01/2015 - 07:20
    +1

    I would of taken the store credit. Cause my time is worth more.

    • Cantdecide on 04/01/2015 - 09:34
      -2

      I agree. I think a store credit was a pretty good result.

      Not to mention the hours OP has spent on here defending their cause …. :)

      • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 12:12
        +9

        I can't & won't support a dodgey operation. I'm not a whinge & do nothing kind of guy. No interest in a store credit. If we bend over and take it, more & more stores will try to push this idea that refunds aren't available. This is Australia, & they most certainly are. I returned a faulty item to Target, instant refund, not even a question. I'm voting with my feet. They will be receiving the proceeds from this sale, not HN.

  • lakers1222 on 04/01/2015 - 07:34
    +5

    Harvey Norman are are treating you like a fool because 9 times out of 10 they can trick a consumer into thinking they have no rights under Australian Consumer Law.

    Stores have multiple managers, I highly doubt the mindless staff can even function without someone spoonfeeding them instructions. Their managers were just hiding in the staff room.

    I would approach them again on Monday, but first call their store and ask to speak with a manager (pretending to congratulate them on something) and ask if you come in the next 30mins will they be available to speak in person. Ask for their name.

    Was this by any chance the Harvey Norman 84 ORiordan St Alexandria (NSW) ? The store manager there Fadi Clear and his team of con men came up with every excuse to NOT issue a refund.

    More story unfold here:
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/119315
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/114835
    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/152634

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 12:19
      +2

      Yes, I totally agree. Even this very post reflects the various consumer mindsets. No, this store in was in Whyalla, SA. But it does show that this poor service procedure is ingrained, possibly even part of the training across all Harveys Nation wide.

  • expertreader on 04/01/2015 - 08:10
    +1

    So hardly normal staff are authorised to dish out store credit but not refund??? Sounds fishy.

  • srhardy on 04/01/2015 - 08:39

    The ACCC love cases like this (see all the signs they have made computer shops put up after they made this mistake of not offering complete refunds). Record and report the conversation and you will get your money back, its your right but i would have taken the store credit myself. Its quick and easy and it keeps the money in the store, so win-win. You have the legal right to be a hardass about it, but you dont have to be.

  • snajper on 04/01/2015 - 09:17

    Reasonable thing to do in your case would be to have used the store credit to purchase another kettle as it is not worth the hassle going back there as it is fair bit of a drive for you. Driving back and forth + your time would be costing you more than kettle is worth.
    There was no manager onsite to authorize a refund therefore not possible at the time.

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 12:27

      If you have a wife/ partner you might understand the $7 kettle you owned as a single bloke (that still works) won't cut it! The kettle is a fancy red one that matches a red toaster & a red mixer. Harveys didn't have one, Target down the road had the exact one. It should have been a simple no questions asked refund, then a trip down the road for a replacement. I'm not interested Gerry can't afford to put a manager on at the expense of my time.

  • hornethomer on 04/01/2015 - 09:29

    Easy, send them an email saying you would like a solution to this and that if no one helps you will be given no choice but to report them to ACCC. Worked for me when JB dismissed my issue as to take up with manufactures.

  • TheChosen on 04/01/2015 - 09:40
    +3

    Is this a joke? Calling the police for a kettle? Hahahaha. Wow. Some people are out of this world.

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 12:40

      The police was purely a question, as there is clearly a consumer law & a law had been broken. At the time of writing I was a little amped up as I knew I was being blatantly and arrogantly lied to. If I deceive someone out of $118 through false or fraudulent means, I'm sure the police would be involved? So why then can a multimillion dollar retailer then continue to adopt this practice without repercussion? Look at the links in this post, this isnt a one off incident. Are we stuck in the mindset that a criminal only wears balaclavas?

    • swyber on 04/01/2015 - 12:44
      +4

      Gee, as a marketing professional, you might like to refresh your education on retailers' responsibilities for warranties. http://www.choice.com.au/~/media/files/consumer%20action/oth…

      TL:DR it IS the responsibility to handle warranties and returns.

      • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 13:13
        +1

        Yep, if nothing else, hopefully this becomes an educational experience to all the ozbargain community. To the marketing professional, please see my response below. Not sure why it went there.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/01/2015 - 21:52
        +1

        Yes it's hard to believe anyone could be so ignorant of the law when so much has been written on the topic of returns and consumer rights.

        OP's course is simple. Ring the store, (re)explain the problem, organise taking the kettle back for a refund, contact state consumer affairs and/or the ACCC should HN refuse to comply with their legal obligations.

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 13:05
      +3

      Wow, dont know where to start…here is probably the most pertinent

      https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees…

      All you need to know is
      1. I did have a receipt
      2. The kettle had rusted out a full hole (they used a different metal for the handle, causing a voltaic reaction).
      3. They couldn't replace or repair. Therefore they must refund.
      4. A customer is NEVER responsible for returning a faulty item to the manufacturer. If you want to adopt this policy, be prepared to be prosecuted.

    • PeterA07 on 04/01/2015 - 15:32
      +2

      Stated as plainly as possible, here is the rule for the relationship between ACL and store policies or warranties:

      A supplier of goods cannot limit or exclude the consumer guarantees contained in the Australian Consumer Law.

      All clear? Consumers are protected by the ACL guarantees regardless of what is said in the "product warranty".

    • McFly on 04/01/2015 - 17:27
      +4

      …as a marketing professional…

      Should have started the post with that so wouldn't wastespend time reading the rest…

  • imahapyboy on 04/01/2015 - 12:21
    +1

    just go back another day to talk to their manager, simple and easy and peaceful

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 13:15
      +1

      Not acceptable when u live several 100 kms from a store and the relevant management aren't contactable.

      • samboread on 04/01/2015 - 17:20
        +3

        TBH, how much in petrol has it cost you to drive "several 100kms" there and back.. is it really worth the money you have wasted in petrol and your own personal time compared to the money you would be getting back on the kettle that you never actually paid for in the first place due to it being a present?

        • kabigon on 04/01/2015 - 19:48

          OP may have had another errand to do in the area and thought 'I'm passing the HN where that defective kettle came from, why not?'

        • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 21:53
          +2

          If no one stood up for their rights what a marvellous country we would live in? Its about making change and seeing this kind of operation go away. I thank those who previously fought to create a fair trading legislation in this country. I will give every cent to the store down the road who deserves my money. So my financial gain =$0

        • samboread on 05/01/2015 - 17:26

          @kabigon: fair call :) but That wasn't stated so didn't that that into consideration

    • McFly on 07/01/2015 - 17:13

      just go back another day

      OP is going to have to borrow my car for that!

  • Davros on 04/01/2015 - 12:25
    -2

    $118 for a kettle?
    Does it boil water any better than a $7.50 one from Kmart?
    Obviously you have way to much money to waste on the simple things.

    • PVA on 04/01/2015 - 12:42

      maybe not but may look a whole lot better.

      Morphy Richards used to be great 50 years ago, now it is cheap stuff trying to trade on its old name.

      • Davros on 04/01/2015 - 13:58
        +2

        It_boils_water

      • paulojr on 04/01/2015 - 17:09
        +1

        A kmart $7.50 kettle will have an exposed heating element so won't be as good a quality as what you can in theory get.. but I think the reality is no kettle is worth $118, which makes the fact that it can't hold water even more disappointing of Morphy Richards. They should be falling over themselves to ensure any problems with their kettles are dealt with quickly as its clearly a luxury item. ;)

        Hey OP, why not do a youtube video and post it up then email it to Morphy Richards see if you get a replacement out of it?

        • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 21:18
          +1

          Totally agree with all. But its part of a set, and the partner wants to keep the set. If we could return the whole set I would, but they have been bought individually. Between you and me, the kettle's design is rubbish! But if someone has paid serious cash, I would expect it to last more than 6 months. I think 10 replacements and they would still be ahead.

        • srhardy on 05/01/2015 - 08:42
          -3

          The NAME is a brand, its sold or licensed to some $2 Chinese company that contracts with slave labor camps to make cheap shit that harvey buys and then flogs at top $. No kettle is worth more than $30 retail but thats not the point of biz, its to buy cheap and sell high.

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 13:16

      Nope, but see my earlier comment re: partners and wives!

      • Davros on 04/01/2015 - 13:59
        +1

        My wife would cut my nuts if I paid that for it.

        • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 14:19
          +2

          And that's why you married her ;-)

    • PlagueistheCheap on 05/01/2015 - 01:32

      Was a gift. Why is that OPs fault?

  • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 14:28

    To those interested and have experienced the same service, please make them accountable and report to the appropriate authorities. Links provided below. It only takes a few minutes. Remember to chose your relevant state.

    https://www.accc.gov.au/contact-us/contact-the-accc/consumer…

    https://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-protection/where-…

    For SA…

    www.cbs.sa.gov.au/wcm/consumers/consumer-advice/making-a-com…

    www.sasbc.sa.gov.au/page/view_by_id/20

    • paulojr on 04/01/2015 - 17:11

      quick question, if you post a complaint to ACCC will they just refer you to your local consumer affairs for this type of issue or do they investigate independantly?

      • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 20:53

        Don't know, I'll let you know.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/01/2015 - 21:56

        Generally they'll note it for their database, explain your rights and refer you to your jurisdiction's consumer affairs office.

  • smpantsonfire on 04/01/2015 - 17:34
    -3

    You sound weird….

    But I can't see how they can issue store credit and not a refund….

    That's more weird.

  • ankor on 04/01/2015 - 18:09
    +2

    How is it then that a mere staff member can provide store credit, but not a refund? This sounds like pure road-block bs, which has severely damaged the HN brand for the sake of trying to keep 'store credit'.

    • scrimshaw on 04/01/2015 - 20:40
      +1

      I work for a different store, our refund system is much simpler simply because faults are much more apparent (we don't sell electrical goods). However I think when it comes to big box stores that sell computers, electronics and appliances there probably needs to be a manager to authorise the refunds as there may be opportunistic customers who refund appliances after having abused the item and voided the warranty themselves.

      However it's not as if HN completely denied OP of a refund — its just the manager wasn't available to process it.

      • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 20:55

        Manager should be there..ACL compliance involves refunds. Therefore I was denied a refund.

        • Cantdecide on 05/01/2015 - 08:28
          +3

          Where does it say in the ACL that you must be given an refund immediately? It says you have a choice in remedy but I dont recall a timeframe being given in the act for actual action on this remedy. I could be wrong though - would be interesting to know the section that says it though.

          Also why all the references to Gerry? HN stores are franchises.

      • ankor on 04/01/2015 - 21:14

        I think the staffers there should have just taken the op name and contact, empathised,and noted that they could authorise a store credit but not a refund. If that solution wasn't acceptable, then staffer could inform that a manager would call the op by x time to process a refund.

      • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2015 - 10:31
        +2

        The OP is entitled to a refund, did not receive it.
        As good as denied.

        The store may be worried about fraudulent refunds, that is the stores problem not the customers nor anything to do with consumer law.
        They store needs to put in sufficient controls to prevent fraud, not have customers jump through hoops.

  • Blotto on 04/01/2015 - 19:20
    +1

    Just take the credit, get another kettle and move on….

    How do people like this get through life with stressing themselves out over something so silly?

    As someone said earlier, is there some kind of magic kettle out there that HN doesn't exclusively stock that I don't know about?

    All Kettle's exclusively boil water last time I checked….

    • whooah1979 on 04/01/2015 - 19:49
      +2

      it's magic red.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/01/2015 - 21:12
        +3

        and if he doesn't get a new fancy red kettle to match the wife's red toaster and red mixer… he might end up with a pair of fancy red (possibly sore) ahem that match the appliances instead.

        No? :P

    • Ughhh on 04/01/2015 - 20:54

      I think OP wants to be the police atm so…

      • resubaehtgnolhcs on 04/01/2015 - 21:07

        sounds like another job for the bikies ….

    • what on 04/01/2015 - 21:05

      You are right. All kettles boil water but why should OP be stuck with a credit that he may not use. A new kettle at HN may be cheaper than the original. He should be refunded the cost of the kettle and buy a new one where he wishes. HN or anywhere else. When a product is faulty, the customer should not be inconvenienced.

    • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 21:25
      +3

      This is the 3rd incident with HN and the straw that has massively aggravated this camels back. A quick "googling" will show its happening at many HN across OZ. As pointed out earlier, HN DON'T stock the magic kettle, so it should have been a quick no fuss refund (as per law), and then down the road to purchase the magic kettle from those who do stock it.

    • Titus Canby on 04/01/2015 - 22:47
      +1

      all cars get you from a to b.So should we all drive Cherrys?

  • tunzafun001 on 04/01/2015 - 21:07
    +8

    OP has walked this Earth for 36 years and has slowly watched the decline of customer service, staff knowledge and common sense. In place is the emergence of businesses who think they don't need to comply with any rules and can waste customers time with these road block techniques. There used to be a time when companies were privileged to have your business. Now it feels they are doing you a favour by existing. Im simply just letting people know that consumers don't need to put up with this, and I'm grateful of the help along the way from other like minded people to see that its dealt with accordingly.

  • fad on 04/01/2015 - 21:38
    +5

    This is why we are buying online. If the brick and mortar store don't support the customer, why should we support the store.

    • GaryQ on 06/01/2015 - 07:43

      Because Gerry neeeeeeeds us or the Australian economy will collapse!
      We should make him Treasurer

  • unity1 on 04/01/2015 - 22:35

    Just a little diversion from the OPs case. If the OPs receipt was in the name of the person who gave the gift, would the OP still be allowed to make a warranty claim?

  • mikeham on 04/01/2015 - 23:48

    If you are returning an item to a retailer, it might be worthwhile to take along a printout of the ACCC's "Repair, replace, refund" page at http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees .

    In the week leading up to Christmas I bought an 8" DGTEC tablet from my local Wolworths (half price, at $64). Very happy with it, but on the second day the USB port broke and disappeared into the innards. The staff refused either a replacement or refund, and said that there was a strict policy that the purchaser had to return electronic items to the manufacturer.

    From the ACCC website:

    You can claim a remedy from the retailer if the products do not meet any one or more of the consumer guarantees, with the exception of availability of spare parts and repair facilities.

    The remedies you can seek from the retailer who sold you the product include a repair, replacement, or refund and in some cases compensation for damages and loss.

    The retailer can’t refuse to help you by sending you to the manufacturer or importer.

    I stood my ground very quietly and politely - no threats, anger or abuse - and eventually was given the last remaining one in stock as a replacement.

    So all turned out well, but it would have been much easier and far more pleasant for both my myself and staff if I'd printed off the page from the ACCC site.

    • omniX32 on 06/01/2015 - 00:23
      +1

      They probably could have claimed it had been "damaged" and not given you anything, sounds like it possibly wasn't a warranty issue at all.

      • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2015 - 11:14
        +1

        Really? What makes you jump to that conclusion Nostradamus?

        • omniX32 on 06/01/2015 - 17:29
          +1

          "USB port broke and disappeared into the innards"…

          this just happens to usb ports all the time, just by looking at them…

        • [Deactivated] on 06/01/2015 - 19:33

          @omniX32: Obviously the port was not installed properly. Any such port should be able to withstand thousands of connections and disconnections. Although you seem to think that every device is made perfectly the simple fact is that a small percentage of almost everything made will have a defect of some sort.

  • VTS160 on 04/01/2015 - 23:49
    +2

    After reading all this i've decided to buy a kettle with chrome finish.

    • srhardy on 05/01/2015 - 08:48

      mine has a digital temp and it saves me reboiling it often as i know its still hot enough to say warm a cup (for coffee), i can often stop my kettle when it reaches a temp perfect for tea or cooking. though it might come in handy and it did!

  • 2025 on 04/01/2015 - 23:51
    +2

    Everyone save this on for your visits to Harvey Norman. On page 7 is a simple flow chart. http://www.accc.gov.au/publications/electrical-whitegoods-an…

    It outlines that it is the stores problem. It outlines you are entitled to a refund, because its a major failure and unsafe. It outlines you don't need to deal with the manufacturer. All this you know, but for other clueless people, it will come in handy.

    I took it along with me when I had a 7 month old mobile phone that had issues with its camera. It went in for repair for 2.5 weeks. Suffice to say I walked out with a brand new phone. All I said is that 2.5 weeks is not a reasonable amount of time. When a minor fault cant be fixed it becomes major, and with a major fault I can request replacement/refund/whatever. I didn't even need to wave it around, the manager understood exactly what I was politely explaining.

    Recently I had an 15 month old microwave start rusting. Called their service center, got some jock that told me to take it somewhere and pay to get it fixed. I called back 2 minutes later and got someone else, and simply explained that I expected it to last longer than 15 months, and they agreed to repair it at their own cost…

    Enjoy.

  • cheesecactus on 05/01/2015 - 02:12

    I returned my beats by are headphones after 2years for a full refund at Harvey Norman, so they DO do it.

    • Ramrunner on 05/01/2015 - 11:46
      +3

      Teehee you said doodoo!

    • GaryQ on 06/01/2015 - 07:41
      +1

      Even Hardly Normal feel sorry for people who buy Beats

  • Ramrunner on 05/01/2015 - 08:52

    Worth e-mailing Morphy Richards? I find I get far more joy from the manufacturer than I do Harvey Norman and co. I actually don't shop there any more unless I have to due to things like this.

    Out of curiousity, this isn't the power button not staying down is it? We had one of those and so did one of our friends and if so I would have epected them to fix it by now as we got rid of that crappy kettle years ago. If it's still happening they're almost asking for a lawsuit :)

    • tunzafun001 on 05/01/2015 - 22:36

      Nah, no switch issues (only 6 months old though). It uses 2 different metals to connect the handle & this is a big construction no no. Any time you put, for example, a steel screw into copper etc. It will rust in no time. Don't put any old screws in your shed, carport , fence etc it will corrode in no time…. Well that's enough of the science lesson ;-)

      BTW - Morphy Richards customer service center was pretty good. No hesitation to replace the first time & liased with Harveys.

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