Harvey Norman Bad Refund Policy?

Lhungerlord on 12/10/2013 - 10:47

I bought a camera just last evening after seeing this post: http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/119072

It was my first purchase from Harvey, and it seems like it might be the last as well. When I was testing the camera last night, the screen suddenly froze to a black screen. Despite restarting it a couple of times, it was still no good. But of course, when I brought the camera in this morning, the annoying prick decided that it would function perfectly again.

After arguing with/ shouting at a sarcastic staff member (very bad uses of sarcasms, if I may add), I had to repeat the same argument to his manager again (they made it very clear that they are extremely against me refunding their products - be it faulty or not). They also told me that if I really wanted a refund (which I did), I had to send my camera in for approximately 7 days. But should they decide that it isn't faulty, I will have to pay an administration fee to collect it back (surprise, surprise)…

Well, I got my money back at last, albeit after a really long and arduous saliva battle with them. I do understand that their "no change-of-mind" policy protects them from certain troubles, but it just got me thinking why such a big corporation like Harvey would find it so difficult to believe a customer who has had a product for less than 24 hours. Why on earth would I commit to buy a $400+ product, then drop in at the start of their office hours, just to pretend that whatever I bought is faulty?

So anyway, I was just wondering… any other OzBargainers have had a bad refund experience with Harvey as well?

General Discussion

Related Stores

Harvey Norman
Harvey Norman

Comments

  • botftw on 12/10/2013 - 11:26
    +1

    Lol. Yes, most of us have. Glad to hear that you finally got your money back.

  • rack on 12/10/2013 - 11:44
    +9

    Sounds like a change of mind to me. If you can't replicate the problem for the staff than there's no reason for you to return it.

    • lakers1222 on 12/10/2013 - 18:02
      +7

      We've all had electronics that intermittently don't work. Your computer may crash once in a blue moon. It's faulty, but how are you going to replicate it in store ?

    • hungerlord on 12/10/2013 - 19:42
      +1

      I bought the camera last night, after making enough research on it, and I'm happy with my choice, despite the drama. As a student, $400+ is not a small investment and I didn't want to take a risk by keeping a faulty product just in case it really goes bonkers in the long run - which is what was recommended to me by the staff member in a really rude tone, despite it breaking down in my hands for less than 24 hours. In the end, I actually bought the exact same product from HN again, but from a different branch - just because the customer service I received at that particular branch was nothing short of horrible.

      I get where you're coming from, but I just wanted to say that it was definitely not a change of mind, and I did what I did just because I didn't want to have to face the same horrible people when the camera breaks down again in the long run (which wasn't doing a good job in reassuring me at that point in time).

      • [Deactivated] on 14/10/2013 - 07:57

        Doing some rehearsal the night before to replicate the problems might help, if you can show them the same issue at the store it would be really helpful to build the case in your favour. Most of retailers staff had heard most of this issues before, the only way to convinced them is to focus on the actual issue with the product, not shouting or verbal argument. Cheers.

        • DarwinBoy on 14/10/2013 - 12:06

          These days its pretty easy to pull the phone out and record those random faults. If you cant show them the actual fault happening its the next best thing

  • letmecry on 12/10/2013 - 12:45
    +3

    It's difficult to judge whether it's faulty or not, if you can't show them in the shop.
    Next time, just record it on a video if it's possible.

    • Gina Rinehart on 15/10/2013 - 01:11

      What if you can't record a video of the problem because your camera is broken? ;)

  • lakers1222 on 12/10/2013 - 18:06
    +3

    Harvey Norman are known for terrible customer service. Anyone who says otherwise probably works there or is affiliated somehow.
    Here's proof:
    http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/114835

    I have a similar story Harvey Norman 84 ORiordan St Alexandria (NSW) also refused to refund a faulty iPad. The iPad was only couple months old and I had the receipt showing proof of purchase at that same store. Even though the manager (Fadi Clear) acknowledged that it was faulty (Screen burn-in) he refused to refund it on grounds that 'I can't tell if it has been jailbroken or not and if it has been jailbroken that the warranty is gone'. He said come back on Monday when they have a technician (Edward, if I remember correctly) on side and I will get a refund when the iPad has been verified not to be jailbroken.

    Come Monday, I returned to the store and asked for a refund. The technician verified the iPad had not been jalibroken but I was still refused the refund. The said that I needed to get an Apple Genius to verify that it has a 'major fault' in order for Apple to issue a refund. Just wondering, if Harvey Norman and Apple followed the law, who should be issuing my refund ?

    Earlier that week I had already visited the Apple Store on George Street (NSW). They acknowledge their was a problem and were happy to swap it straight away. They brought out an iPad from one of the drawers and I noticed that it wasn't in a box so I questioned 'Is the replacement iPad new ?' to which the apple genius answered it was 'refurbished'. I refused to take the refurbished model as I expected a brand new replacement if my iPad became faulty under the warranty period. Am I expecting too much ?

    I would love to hear other peoples comments to what I they would have done after being bullied by these two stores. Yes, I'm naming the stores which pushed me around. They shouldn't get away with what they've done.

    • hungerlord on 12/10/2013 - 19:29
      +2

      Ahh, I went to the exact same store. Explains a lot.

      • lakers1222 on 12/10/2013 - 23:05
        +1

        I wouldn't be surprised if it was the same manager too.

  • jason101 on 12/10/2013 - 18:33
    +22

    I'm no HN fanboy, but think of it from their perspective, they sell you a camera which is on sale, make about $4.50 on the sale (their choice yes), but then you as a customer comes back in claiming the product is faulty but cannot replicate the fault. The sad thing is that you product genuinely has (had) a fault, but 99/100 other times people have used the same trick on a change of mind (or found it cheaper elsewhere) return. Now HN have a camera in stock, which they cannot return to the supplier (as it will not show the fault) and they cannot resell (as you have presumably used it and got finger prints all over it, used the software, un-bundled the power cord etc - effectively they have to send it out on clearance @ 50% off an lose about $200 on the deal.

    I think it is reasonable they put up a protest, but in the end you received a refund anyway - if you had been pulling a scam, perhaps maybe you would have given up after 2 mins of arguments.

    I run a small business and currently have a customer claim against me with Fair Trade in Victoria as the client received a product he bought online, called me and said it didn't meet his needs (he imagined it had features it never had and I never suggested it had), then claimed it was damaged on delivery (cannot prove, will not send photos, will not complete courier insurance claim), now finally claims "not fit for purpose" so has gone to fair trading on this basis. Some might argue that as a good business practice I should just refund the money or take the product back into stock - $700 paid by the customer being $550 for the product and $150 for outward freight. So if I refund $300 would be eaten up in freight (original freight out and freight back) if I simply concede based on what I believe is a "change of mind / customer buying something that didn't meet there needs and was never going to".

    In my example if I take the product back I am already out $300 in freight costs plus have a "used" product in stock I really have no chance of selling.

    I sort of feel a bit for HN in this instance, as my own experience is a little similar.

    I am a Ozbargainer through and through, but sometimes I think we collectively don't think it through from the other side of the coin.

    At the end of the day, if we act unfairly to retailers or use the consumer centric laws in Australia to our advantage unfairly as consumers - they go broke and more gear comes in directly from China - Imagine if you had bought this camera from Aliexpress - where would you be today ?

    • hungerlord on 12/10/2013 - 19:34

      I completely understand where you are coming from, like how I acknowledged it in my original post. But the utterly horrible customer service that I received today was the main reason why I was so angry. As a big corporation, I would expect HN to have the slightest decency to treat your customer right, with at least a neutral tone (I'm really not expecting smiles and butterflies when I was obviously there to lodge a complain). Had the staff member not spoken down to me and been nothing but pleasant, I don't think I would have written this post.

      • cloudy on 13/10/2013 - 13:40
        +1

        It would seem like ur gripe is with the individuals who gave you bad customer service and not the over 50,000 sons and daughters of 1 in every 20 family in Australia who might have some employment with hv.

        What I can't understand is why every time an individual who has an issue with a employee, it is the who companies fault.

        I think i might be biased coz I work in a government organisation that no one likes and because of that every social environment I'm in I'm frowned upon just coz some colleague I've never met made someone unhappy.

        It's poor association.

        • Baghern on 13/10/2013 - 21:17

          1 in 20? so only 1 million Australians are employment..

          Its a management line position, they're looking after their 'bonuses'

        • cloudy on 14/10/2013 - 18:33
          -1

          I said family, so yea, I reckon there is probably only 1million families with someone employed in Australia. With 20m people, ave of 5 per family, means 1/4 people are employe or aka 5m jobs. Given babies and the elderly don't work, I think my guesstimate is good.

          What say you baghern?

        • [Deactivated] on 14/10/2013 - 20:39
          +1

          Don't quit your day job for statistical analysis.

        • natedogg118 on 14/10/2013 - 22:04
          +6

          As someone who has worked in retail for over 10 years, sales for close to 20 and has managed and owned business's i have to say that every individual that is customer facing is a representative of that business, they are for the brief moments that they have with customers, the whole business.

          These people are the front line and should be embodiments of what the business stands for, and should uphold the image of said business.

          If you have a poor customer interaction, such as the employee being rude, condescending, or "difficult" then it is the fault of the person that hired that individual, the person that trained that individual, the person that failed to evaluate that individual in their most recent catch up correctly, the person that works along side that individual that does not bring their attitude to the attention of the manager, the fault of the person that fails to manage them correctly… These are all people that work for the same business, that REPRESENT the business, and when they allow individuals to work in customer service it then becomes the fault of the CULTURE of a business. Every employee, good or bad are there due to a series of choices made by the business, that is why people find fault in a business when they are let down by an employee.

        • Wade on 15/10/2013 - 11:22
          +1

          Fantastic write up natedogg. Similar experience, and you say it perfectly.

        • Baghern on 15/10/2013 - 13:36
          +2

          Very weak,

          A quick google gave me these

          Employees Est. 10,000 (Australia Only)2011

          http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harvey_Norman

          In 2013 Harvey Norman Holdings Ltd had 4950 employees in Australia including employees from all subsidiaries under the company's control.

          http://www.ibisworld.com.au/car/default.aspx?entid=3662

          and…

          11,645,800. Full-time employment (Sep 2013)

          http://www.abs.gov.au/ausstats/[email protected]/mf/6202.0

          Making up numbers is not very sound.

          oh yeah my job is in data management…

          Exactly right Nate, the employer is either not supervising their employees or not put in proper practices/management to ensure good service. Its one thing to stick up for your employees its another to ignore/treat your customers as liars, especially without proof.

  • plmko on 13/10/2013 - 02:04
    -1

    "Why on earth would I commit to buy a $400+ product, then drop in at the start of their office hours, just to pretend that whatever I bought is faulty?"

    LOL nothing against you, but this 100% defines 'change of mind'.

    If the product was faulty, good on you for getting the refund.

    • nikey2k27 on 13/10/2013 - 21:21

      I work in retail for 16year i can tell tall story we had it.

  • johninmelb on 13/10/2013 - 07:42
    +8

    I am a loss to understand why anyone, let alone ozbargainers who can reasonably assumed to be pretty savvy, still shop at Harvey Norman.

    Why would anyone with a modicum of common sense ever shop in one this odious man's shops? It just defies all logic.

    The problems with this chain have been documented on hundreds of webpages, acres of newsprint, hours of TV and radio. Why are people still shopping there?

    Even in the highly unlikely event that you could find something cheaper there than elsewhere, why would you put yourself through the torture?

    I can only conclude that a strange minority get some sort of deviant sexual pleasure from dealing with the horrors of Harvey Norman.

    I would never set foot in one of Gerry Harvey's stores, even if he was giving the stuff away free.

    • [Deactivated] on 13/10/2013 - 10:45
      +1

      If Ozbargainers see a bargain at HN then they feel obligued to buy it because they cannot resist a bargain - its not a logical thing - its a passion. God help us if the item is faulty.

      • [Deactivated] on 13/10/2013 - 20:29

        Sorry, RustyStainless, but I don't believe that rash purchases are attributed to passion; it's done via impulse. Marketing can be effective to exploit that; the consumerist tendency, that is.

        Items are a perceived bargain because the price has been significantly lowered from the RRP or general market value of what the item is selling for. It may be a bargain, but you [anyone] have the choice to purchase or not, after deliberation, or be subject to impulse purchase. Buyer's remorse springs to mind.

        I share the same attitude with johninmelb, I have not set foot in any HN stores and cannot bring myself to purchase online, and not tempted either. I would part my money with HN again, only if/when they can gain my trust reliably.

        And, OP, glad you achieved a resolution.

    • cloudy on 13/10/2013 - 13:43
      +4

      Someone should ban anyone who will refuse free stuff just because of the brand or company giving it away.

      If anything, you should take from those you dislike the most.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/10/2013 - 14:38
      +1

      in the last 12 months,

      • I got a Star Wars special edition kinect xbox console for $250. The going price on eBay was around $500 for a second hand one without warranty.
      • I got a bread maker for $80 and the cheapest I could find for this model elsewhere was $140
      • I got a Nikon V1 twin lens kit for $325, the cheapest online was around $500+

      No problems with any of them.

      I suppose the more of you there are, the more chance that it will be in stock, and the higher the chance I get to grab some great offers.

      When I buy electronics, I am there to buy electronics, not to form a love connection of everlasting trust and respect. Yes their sales staff can be shit, but dealing with a shit person for 10 minutes whilst I buy something, is worth saving $200 for.

      I spend plenty of time talking to shit people online, and I don't even save a dollar.

      • [Deactivated] on 14/10/2013 - 20:26
        +1

        When I buy electronics, I am there to buy electronics

        That's good; you deliberated your decision for purchase. With the items that you purchased, you saw great value in them and the lower price made it a perceived "bargain" for you.

        Cost/benefit… cost is too great to endure and therefore exceeds benefit. A "love connection" has nothing to do with it. Trust = expecting that you would be treated like a respected citizen and not some professional scammer/thief that warrants avoidance or condescension. This hasn't happened yet in my experience but the online experiences have deterred me from purchasing online again, and it's too effortful to travel (cost) to store, especially one with a bad rep and rap [sheet].

        • [Deactivated] on 16/10/2013 - 15:21
          -1

          The italics was unnecessary because it wasn't a perception. it was a price comparison from all major retailers world wide.
          The quotation marks were unnecessary because it actually was a bargain to the point that I resold the console after debating long and hard over whether to open it or not (I am a video games collector) and made over $200 profit.
          The bold was unnecessary because it was obviously a good deal to many other people other than myself with each deal (excluding the break maker which was an in store pricing error) got over 60 positives from other members of the community.

  • Ughhh on 13/10/2013 - 11:49
    +2

    I've had a Good experience for a faulty mouse replacement that i had been using for over a year (but still within the Microsoft 3 year warranty) at gepps cross Adelaide.

    The guy tested the mouse to see if it was faulty and said I can grab a new one. Easy.

    Just put yourself in the sellers shoes. I'm sure some of you understand how many BS buyers there are.

    Never go in being all demanding and angry. Slowly bring out the words replacement/refund

    • twwyt on 14/10/2013 - 04:59

      Also had a good experience with the Gepps Cross store electronics department manager. Albeit only after my mother having a less than perfect transaction earlier.

      She bought a second gen iPad when they were just released and HN didn't have accessories in stock yet.

      Somehow the salesperson managed to con her into buying a 1st Gen screen protector and case (No Camera Hole in either) Telling her that Because they were the same size this was exactly what she needed and that they wouldn't be getting any different cases in for the new generation iPad. They even suggested that she could drill a hole in the case for the camera. I couldn't believe it!

      Anyway long story short I sent the store manager a copy of the receipt and explained the story and he told us to come in right away so he could exchange the case for the correct one and offered to replace the already used screen protector with one for a second gen iPad. I'd certainly be willing to bet that he followed up with whomever made the sale also.

  • Kempe on 13/10/2013 - 18:19
    +1

    HN are not a big corporation as they franchise everything
    eg Tv section is a different franchise from white goods as it prevents buying multiple items and wanting a big discount ….so they think

  • fmckenzie on 13/10/2013 - 19:20

    Oh no hope I don't have trouble
    I purchased the Panasonic DMC-GF3 deal, picked it up yesterday and unpacked it this morning and the charger station is missing. Thought I was stupid as I couldn't work out how to plug the charging cable into the camera, til I saw a video of one being unpacked and realised I was missing a vital part.

    I hope they come good with a replacement part, as I would love to keep the camera.

  • bs0 on 13/10/2013 - 21:05
    +2

    Yes I had problems earlier this year, I managed to resolve it after some arguing.

    I bought a PC cooling pad from Harvey Norman, Castle Hill, NSW. I went there after a little over 12 months from the original purchase date, packaging, and broken cooling pad. In the documentation, it said the product had a lifetime of a huge ***** hours - I don't remember exactly how much, but it was a lot, equated to several years. Despite me arguing that the cooling pad shouldn't have broken down so soon, she kept refusing saying that I bought the product over 12 months ago, and the HN policy was "limited to a year", or some crap like that. And she may have said the documentation that came with the box wasn't legit. Can't remember exactly.

    Then I pulled out a nice printed sheet of consumer rights from ACCC and asked if she knew how to do her job properly.

    I got a very grumpy replacement after that.

  • crazi74 on 14/10/2013 - 06:29

    Harvey Norman don't like to part with their money or price match their over priced items. They are sneaky.
    I had found an external DVD burner for $29 at centrecom and Harvey Norman had it for $79. I used their online chat service to querie if they price matched as it saved me driving to centre com. They said they would price match and I sent them the link I had. They tried telling me it was a different model completely, so I queried if they used the manufacturers model number on their system or had it listed under their own code because I checked the manufacturers website. He had to go and check and what do you know I was right. Their listing was using some stock code of their own so reluctantly he sent me an email to price match at my local store. And I had the same dramas when I went to the store, they still tried to convince me it was a different model even though I had an email with a reference number authorising the price match.

    • Baghern on 14/10/2013 - 08:51

      haha I notice JB Hifi are doing this now too, that is hiding the actual product/model code

    • ProjectZero on 16/10/2013 - 10:46

      Lol i had run in with their price match too… when i was looking to buy a Canon 7D, i found it a lot cheaper at RYDA, but since they were near the city and i was out west… driving there would have taken me 45mins.

      So i went online to ask the online help for HN and they said yes to price matching but if i were to purchase online, there was no store pick up. Being an impatient person, i asked them if i can just get the local store to price match, to which he replied yes.

      So i went to the local store and asked for a price match and what do you know? The clerk said no they can not price match it and that it was well below their purchase price. So i left and went to JB Hifi.

      15 mins later after going to JB Hifi, i walked out with a brand new Canon 7D for a lower price then what RYDA had (not only did they match the price but beat it by a couple of bucks).

      After this i'm starting thinking that HN employees probably work off a commission and the clerk that served me at HN thought to himself that he wasn't getting enough of a cut…

      • bluedufflecoat on 16/10/2013 - 11:03

        that's just silly - getting something is better than getting nothing!

  • chillwok on 14/10/2013 - 11:12

    my sister used a nokia lumina for almost a month, then it had problems and she got a refund no problems.
    i was quite surprised!

  • [Deactivated] on 14/10/2013 - 11:40
    +2

    I always take phone video of a fault when it occurs to use as evidence for returns in case the problem stops happening. I've had more than one attendant go from surly "you were probably doing it wrong" attitude to "oh, that's clearly a problem, let's replace that right away" on a dime using it.

  • [Deactivated] on 14/10/2013 - 11:55
    +3

    Make a video of the fault as soon as it happens next time.

    Take a picture etc.

    This is the best way to do it.

  • razzor on 14/10/2013 - 12:36

    In regards to cameras at HN, last year i went to buy a DLSR with an image stabilizing lens.
    The sales person showed me a good one for my budget and said it was image stabilized.
    Before handing over the cash i read the box over 20 times and it said nothing about image stabilization so i asked was he sure and he said 100% positive - the sales rep for Canon told me that the S here (points to box) stands for stabilization.
    So i said show me the lens then it should have a switch on it for stabilization - pulls it out and there's no switch but he assures me its all good.

    So i purchased it and went out to the car and did a quick google search which confirmed that it was in fact was not stabilized.
    So i went back in to see a different sales rep who confirmed that it wasn't. Then the other rep saw i was back and we all had a chat and he realized he messed up so i got a FREE upgrade to the next model saving me around $200 which was epic.
    The HN guys were all nice about it, took a bit of mucking around and research tho

    • lakers1222 on 16/10/2013 - 11:39
      +2

      They didn't upgrade your camera out of good will. They were wrong and they compensated you with a newer model because they didn't want to lose the sale by refunding you and allowing you to take you money to another store.

  • fmckenzie on 14/10/2013 - 18:12

    Very happy with HN carindale; they gave me a battery charger from the display camera to replace the one that was missing from my new camera. Very relieved, and impressed by their service. Have to give credit where it is due.

    • lakers1222 on 16/10/2013 - 11:42
      +2

      That's really dodgy that a supposably new camera is missing a charger. The camera you bought was probably a second hand. I would have demanded a new sealed model instead

  • GunnerMcDagget on 15/10/2013 - 09:19

    I shop at Harvey Norman at North Ryde and never have an issue. The only time I ran into a problem was when a lady serving me scanned a game and it came up as $40, it was marked as $40 but she said "I'm sure I saw this cheaper" and went through the catalogue and found the game listed as $25 on sale. She then charged me $25.

    That said, I have been to the Harvey Norman factory second/clearance store at Auburn (across the road from the big Harvey Norman, now closed), and each time I would look at an item in the catalogue then ask the store attendant how much it was and each time they would tell me at least twice the price listed in the catalogue. When I showed them the catalogue they would always reduce it but the initial price they would quote was often more than the RRP.

    I think it's just a matter of where you shop.

    I have never returned anything to Harvey Norman before. Returned some speakers to JB hifi the other day and before I even got to tell her why I was returning them she had already given me a full refund.

    • mooboy on 15/10/2013 - 11:42
      +1

      So your ownly 'problem' is the lady wanted to charge you less than you wanted to pay? You're one lucky SOB!

  • Forfiet on 15/10/2013 - 09:57

    I have found those Harvey Norman factory second/clearance stores to be more expensive then the normal Harvey's and with less range…..

  • jendownunder on 19/10/2013 - 12:45
    +1

    My 12 week old tv completely died, took it back to HN and so began the long, dramatic process of getting another TV/refund.

    HN reckoned a Samsung engineer had to verify it was a fault and not something i'd done or a surge for example. So I waited a week with no TV for Samsung engineer. Engineer reckons it needs a new motherboard, says i'll order a part from Sydney and it will be here in a week…. not good enough. I don't want a refurbished TV, I bought a new TV 12 weeks ago. I also don't want to be another week with no TV through no fault of my own. Returned to store and they still won't refund/replace. I stated that the law says if the item is not fit for purpose (which it obviously isn't with no picture or sound) then I am entitled to a replacement or a refund. The manager argued that THEY were entitled to try to repair the item first. I called up trading standards who agreed with me and wanted manager's name and store number. Funnily enough, when I requested this information the manager fell over himself to offer me a replacement tv. I then told him that I'd rather have a refund (what if the new TV dies, do I have to do this dance all over again?) and he really really didn't want to give me one. I explained that by law I could choose between a replacement and a refund and finally left the store with my money back. Needless to say i've never bought anything from HN again.

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