Harvey Norman refusing refund on defective product (under warranty, discontinued product) Need Help!

tunzafun001 on 03/01/2015 - 14:42

Just went to return a kettle (Morphy Richards $118). Leaked on to electronics. Had returned 6 months ago, same problem. Harveys informed us that they no longer stock the item, & that we could have a store credit. Not interested in the other rubbish they had, we said we will just take a refund as per Aus Consumer Law & go buy a kettle elsewhere. They refused, citing no manager on site to authorize a refund and further "that we were being unreasonable" not accepting the credit, and we can just come back another time. What do you do in this situation. Clearly no value of our time, or rights. The store is down playing their legal responsibility based on no manager? Police would have no interest?? How do we make these Cowboys who think they are above the law accountable?

Electrical & Electronics

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Harvey Norman
Harvey Norman

closed Comments

  • R4 on 05/01/2015 - 13:51
    +3

    I've lived in Australia for 9 years and have never shopped at Harvey Norman. Ever. Basically for reasons like this and their stupid prices, their terrible ads, their useless staff and their idiot of a chairman.

    If we ignore them they will go away.

  • conant on 05/01/2015 - 21:31

    My one was leaking too but I bought from 2ndworlds…factory second-hand - I thought that was the reason. Anyway, just 3months and got changed another one. So far so good.

  • tunzafun001 on 05/01/2015 - 22:58

    Well if nothing else I'm glad this post has ignited some interesting conversations between customers & I'm guessing some retail owners / workers. Hopefully both sides of the coin have learnt about consumer rights & I would urge customers to not put up with store policies that dont conform. Likewise I hope the managers & store owners educate their staff, that annoying customer just might be right. Lastly, I would say don't use the ACL as a threat. Simply quote it, and if your issue isn't resolved, Then report them immediately. Don't put it off, it takes less than 10mins to report. Hopefully we will weed out these HN tactics I've experienced, the management will be educated and the shopping experience is positive for both sides of the register.

  • tunzafun001 on 05/01/2015 - 23:05

    Oh…and if you are buying a decent item (ie a ridiculously expensive kettle), you don't need an extended warranty. You already have it in the ACL. Don't give your hard earned $ away to HN or similar for no reason.

  • tramperleo on 06/01/2015 - 09:59

    If we do not say HV, but just for solving this kettle problem, this should be an easy case.
    As I know, Morphy Richard kettle has a 3 year manufacturer warranty and the Morphy Richard has superior after sale service.
    You can just contact Morphy Richard, they will deliver a brand new one to your door step free of charge.

  • littleDealFish on 06/01/2015 - 11:37
    +3

    Actually HN were great with my friend, her Pryon system failed after 6 months, and we were able to get pretty much a full refund - no resistance at all. It took little over all a week and $2000 was back in their bank.

    I work in retail and i think it does give you a unique perspective from both sides. Sorry but most Australians are an entitled bunch and think we deserve everything straight away or scream bloody murder.

    According to ACCC the customer should allow the store a chance to repair/replace the product within a reasonable time frame. If the store offers to do a refund straight away then this is the store's decision to be nice not required by the law. It is illegal to refuse refunds entirely though (MSY). If it is a major fault that could cause injury then this would be something the store would want to refund straight away too because it is danger to a person. The fact the kettle is no longer made gives you even more reason to a refund, because it is definitely not replaceable. However, whatever poor employee you rained hell down on probably did not actually have the power to authorise you a refund. Be patient, wait a day, and get your refund.

    Either way, different stores have different models and some are going to cost those businesses more than others. At Dicksmith, we gave refunds no questions asked (may have changed, but being part of the woolworths conglomerate i'm guessing there was more room to move) and i had no issue doing this. What people don't seem to understand is that if we could give everyone a refund we would, but what happens when something you return has been physically damaged and the customer is long gone and the business is left to foot the bill? Most of the difficult refunds are these, when the customer knows it too, they don't want to wait for the manufacturer to point the finger at them.

    The solution is simple - be reasonable, be patient. Allow the business a chance to correct the issue, as after all - they didn't actually make the product, i find there is a lot of misdirected anger towards the business and the sales when a product is faulty.. they sell it, they do have the responsibility to repair/replace/refund yes, but did they go into your house directly and sabotage your items? no lol :)

  • pkl111 on 06/01/2015 - 21:08
    +2

    I worked for Harvey Norman fantastic company just send an email to complaints in Sydney and in a few days you should have your problem fixed all complaint emails are taken very seriously and get looked at by second to Gerry Harvey. They do respond and you do get results Gerry still owns each and all shops, the shops are given to you to run and cannot be purchased…
    www.harveynorman.com.au/contact-us/

    • pkl111 on 06/01/2015 - 22:39

      Comment above was my older brother. Just so people don't get confused from previous comments

    • lakers1222 on 06/01/2015 - 23:18

      I tried this route before. The message only reached the selfish store manager and again I was illegally refused the refund.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/01/2015 - 10:04
      +2

      I think you need to brush up on the Australia Consumer LAW.

    • rompastompa on 07/01/2015 - 10:57

      If an item is faulty under warranty, then they need to repair, replace or refund. In this case, they cannot repair or replace. A refund can be issued as a monetary equivalent (different model, credit or cash). In this case, OP has requested cash which HN is giving them the run around.

      Edit: by law, unopened items are not covered as a refund. Most large retailers do though, to promote impulse buying.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/01/2015 - 13:04
      +2

      Yet another furphy - no consumer needs to have "retail experience" to know his/her rights. The pity of it is that many retail workers don't know what the law requires of them despite the myriad attempts in the media to educate us all. Others are simply not empowered by businesses. The OP obviously knows FAR more than you about his rights. His expectations aren't unreasonable - it's either repair, replace or refund, so unless the kettle was bought with a store voucher then store credit is NOT a legal option without his agreement.

      • frostman on 08/01/2015 - 08:48

        The OP obviously knows FAR more than you about his rights.

        Yeah sure, suggesting to involve the police or querying their potential involvement tells me alot about the OP and yourself

        • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 13:23

          Unfortunately your intuition is on a par with your understanding of consumer rights and law. The police obviously have no role.

    • tunzafun001 on 08/01/2015 - 01:24

      @frostman
      It would be interesting to know who you work for/ got your retail training from? Not being aggressive or provoking in any way. Just like my situation, they are setting you up for conflict. Would just like to know who is educating staff in this way??

      • frostman on 08/01/2015 - 08:58

        I've done a lot of Retail training, also Certificate III and 4 in Retail Operations. However it doesn't really show you the intricate of Consumer law, it's more geared towards privacy, fraud, customer serviceetc

        Having said that, by law, the OP should be able to obtain (in order):

        Replacement item of same value/type
        Refund Credit voucher or Cash/Card deposit

        Problem is, most of the retailers (majority online places) don't follow the laws to the dot, and this is where i'm coming from. You can take HN to court about the refund and win, but it's not a feasible attempt, hence my response to get over it and get the gift card.

        • McFly on 08/01/2015 - 22:42

          Still???
          The OP is legally required to be provided with a refund, repair, or replacement, at the OP's discretion.
          It's not temporal mechanics!

  • McFly on 07/01/2015 - 17:16
    +2

    Can't believe there are still people (here) who don't know the OP is owed a refund by law.

  • Squidmcsproggen on 07/01/2015 - 19:15
    -4

    I worked at HN for 8 years.
    Reading all this is hilarious.
    having a proprietor , 2ic , floor managers on at all times isn't a law,
    if your not happy with something HN have a contact form.
    http://www.harveynorman.com.au/contact-us/
    these get checked by head office than sent directly to the proprietor.
    the proprietor also has to reply to head office with an outcome.
    if you need something sorted that you are not happy with this is the way to do it.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/01/2015 - 21:19

      If you'd actually read it all you'd know that was already discussed. The fact that the OP might need to resort to that rubbish says a lot about the particular store if not the group itself.

      • Squidmcsproggen on 08/01/2015 - 12:13
        -1

        sounds like the OP went into the store with a attitude to start off with.

        being nice costs nothing

        • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 13:07

          Your assessment of cause and effect needs some work so I'll attempt to explain it to you. The OP went in to a store a fair way from his home to make what he considered, and most of us would consider I'd suggest, a simple warranty claim. Nothing suggests he was gunning for a fight despite your comment. The HN rep and/or her managers through ignorance and/or misdirection mismanaged the situation and in doing so have arguably contravened consumer law, brought the chain into disrepute and caused the OP significant inconvenience. HN should now do everything to rectify the situation and compensate him for the inconvience.

    • [Deactivated] on 07/01/2015 - 22:30
      +6

      Don't worry, it clearly shows that you've worked at Harvey Norman for 8 years.

      No one is saying that there has to be a manager by law.
      The law just says that they have to provide a refund, simple as that. The law doesn't stipulate that it has to be manager that does it, they just need to give a refund.

      If the store has its own policy that a manager must approve it, then they need to have a manager on hand to do it.

      • psy on 08/01/2015 - 09:03
        +4

        They only do refunds between 11:30am and 11:45am when the Manager is on-duty.

        • rompastompa on 08/01/2015 - 11:43
          +3

          They may have a 15 minute break within that period.

      • Squidmcsproggen on 08/01/2015 - 12:06
        -2

        Not worried at all mate, where you get that from?

        i also stated i used to work at HN

        the point i was making is if your not happy with the outcome there website contact form will be monitored and the proprietor HAS to reply to head office with a outcome.

        receiving one of these is like getting the cane and are what proprietors fear the most.

        In 8 years of working there i had 5 props, too many stuff ups that get notified to head office means loss of position/store.

        BTW anybody from the technician, sales staff, cashier can do refunds if it is within the 14 day return policy.

        if it is getting close to end of warranty (12 months) return, replace usually cannot be done on the spot.

        Items usually have to be sent of to the repair agents and examined. (all within the law)

        Refunds are not law if the product has been damaged misused ECT.
        this is why the get sent of for inspection.

        If you owned a store you wouldn't just refund people money if they returned a product without it being examined first.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 12:54
          +1

          Lol, retailers and manufacturers "factor in" an amount for returns (as well as promotions and other loss leaders) and I'd have an educated guess that stores already write off FAR more in losses to theft, transportation damage and other factors than they lose on shonky warranty claims.

          A simple inspection would tell you enough about a $100 product to know if it has been mistreated and the return risk is warranted. Pissing off legitimate customers for such a piddling amount will do far more damage to your business than bearing the cost of an occasional customer trying to pull a swiftie. Any retailer who kept my kettle for a month on the basis of having it inspected or repaired would lose my business. The value of good faith and customer satisfaction to any business is considerably more than you appear to understand.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 13:47

          Where? The Government… www.consumerlaw.gov.au

          If there is a major fault, the item must be replaced, repaired or refunded at the customers choosing.

          It is a kettle, it's not rocket science. Any monkey can see if there was physical damage to the product.

          If the kettle is leaking water or not heating it, clearly it is a major fault as it only has two jobs.
          1. Keep the water in.
          2. Get the water hot.
          Leaking water also poses a massive danger.

          And lets be honest, it wont be repaired, no one at the manufacturer will even look at it. They will cut off the power cord and throw it into the rubbish skip.

        • frostman on 08/01/2015 - 14:43
          -4

          @Drew22:

          Yes, but apparently the OP said they couldn't provide him a replacement as they don't stock it anymore.
          It doesn't seem right as HN will usually provide the "next best" item in replacement.
          Provided Morphy Richard's kettles have been ranging between $80-$100 for 10 years, im sure they were offered a replacement.

          OP tell us the truth

        • rompastompa on 08/01/2015 - 14:58

          @frostman:

          He said above that he didn't want a different one, as it's a set piece.

          Though, if his two previously were faulty.. one would think the third may have the same issue? Perhaps that's why it's no longer a stocked item.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 15:26

          @frostman:

          With a major fault it is the CUSTOMERS choice to get a replacement/repair/refund, not the retailers.

          So if the customer asks for a refund, the retail is obligated by law to do so. No exchanges, no "next best" item kind of rubbish.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 19:35
          -1

          @frostman: Give it away. It gets more embarrassing every time you post

        • Squidmcsproggen on 08/01/2015 - 19:44
          -1

          @Possumbly:

          reading threw your history i take it you are a troll.
          you appear to have a big mouth, and not much to back it up

          my advice to you is to STFU

          neg away

        • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 19:47

          @Squidmcsproggen: I'm a troll because you know sfa about retailing and consumer law? Get some knowledge junior.

        • Squidmcsproggen on 08/01/2015 - 19:49
          -2

          @Possumbly:

          exactly you dont know SFA
          bet ive got 15 to 20 years on you.

          i know the law, do you?

          just some people like you are tools and retailers have had enough of your crap

          go ask your mum for a cookie and milk, off to bed for you

        • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 19:52

          @Squidmcsproggen: Tools, mums, cookies? Seriously?

        • Squidmcsproggen on 08/01/2015 - 19:55
          -3

          @Possumbly:
          is that all you got.
          amateur

        • frostman on 08/01/2015 - 21:46
          -2

          @Possumbly::

          Dude, As Squid advised, you're just proving you're more of a troll and a waste of time.

          Howabout you "give it up" and move on now, stop starting keyboard wars here douchebag

  • [Deactivated] on 08/01/2015 - 20:00

    You joined yesterday pal and so far you've managed one post telling us you're a glutton and a couple of others which show your ignorance. The positive is that you can only improve.

    • Squidmcsproggen on 09/01/2015 - 15:12

      not your pal, i don't associate with fools

      wrong again, seems to be a trait of yours.

      i have been on for years just using my wife's account.

      and if you think im going to bow to someone who thinks he/she is a icon because they might have been on a forum longer than someone else you have rocks in your head. which is obvious you do

      i pity anybody that works with you (if you work at all) that started after you, as you believe that gives you some sort of right to argue with them.

      get a life and as frostman says "give it up"

      • [Deactivated] on 09/01/2015 - 16:35

        Don't panic pal, maturity eventually arrives for everyone.

        • Squidmcsproggen on 09/01/2015 - 16:38

          something you show a lack off

          i would love to have a face to face discussion with you if your up for it

        • [Deactivated] on 09/01/2015 - 16:44

          @Squidmcsproggen: After you've had your 3 pizzas, half a chicken and kilo of chips or before? Btw there are good deals on dictionaries around this time of the year.

    • Squidmcsproggen on 09/01/2015 - 20:00

      Not a glutton

      fit and healthy doesn't mean you cant eat alot

  • ttc72 on 08/01/2015 - 20:36

    Ok what I don't get is this is the second faulty kettle of the same brand and you wanted another one? Never had a problem with our breville or tefal kettles, but I guess they're the 'rubbish' that you said they sell.

  • Moderatorhamza23 on 09/01/2015 - 20:58

    This discussion has turned into personal attacks and nothing meaningful. Comments closed, thanks.

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