I have been ripped off while buying a car - Calling all OzBargainers for advice and opinions

Hello all fellow Ozbargainers, pull up a chair and grab some popcorn and take a listen to my story….I'm keeping specific detail minimal due to the fact this may end up in court.

The Story:

So back in August 2013 I responded to an ad for a for private vehicle sale on Ebay. I went round and the vehicle was pretty much exactly what I wanted at a good price $7500.

The guy talked me into putting a $500 deposit on the car claiming many people were calling and wanting to buy it. I was a little nervy but really wanted the car. The guy seemed legit.

The car was to be sold with a RWC and he was to provide it within 7 Days and I would come back with the rest of the cash then.

I get a phone call 2 days later that the RWC was as good as done, but the car needed to go in for a second inspection in which it was 100% guaranteed to pass and told me I needed to go round and give him the rest of the cash and that he couldn't get time off work so I would need to take the car in for the second inspection the following day.

I went round and asked to see the pink paper of the second inspection for the RWC, in which he had conveniently misplaced. After some great bs artist work he convinced me it was 'all good mate' I reluctantly parted with the rest of the cash and wrote into the contract that any further works in the RWC would have to be completed by him if any.

I took the car in and there was a lot of work needed, called him back he said no problem bring it back he will do the work.

I took the car back and told him to fix it, to which he agreed. Two days later he calls me up and says the car is blown up and towed to a mates garage and his mate had started pulling it apart to put parts on another car for me. I said no way, I'm coming round to sort this out, he claimed he was interstate and couldn't help me out, I said tell me your mates address Ill go round and sort it with him, he refused. I went round the the 2 Addresses I had on my transfer papers and he wasn't at either property or was hiding, and neither was the vehicle.

He kept answering his phone, and said he will pay me the money back, to which I said you must pay my money back, you lied to me about the RWC and then took my car and won’t give it back.

I have spent the last 5 months in conjunction with a Debt collector (Family Friend) chasing him for the money. The moron keeps claiming he will pay me, but his story keeps changing, and he has said he will and has paid at least 10 times now, I don't believe a word he has ever said to be true. I have become quite enraged about the whole thing.

I had this guy investigated and he has had 7 Judgements against him in the last 3 years and has been forcibly bankrupted by the CBA 18 months ago (Foreclosed for $400,000) (well before he incurred this debt with me) but no further judgements against him since then.

I went to the police and told them the story, they said even though its technically my car, I gave it to him and its not stolen, its a civil matter, take him to court.

I have had a lot of different ideas about what to do next and my legal standing.

I ask the OzB crew the following for opinions on potential actions, Assuming he has no assets or cash whatsoever right now, and I have not spoken to him for 2 months while the Debt collector has been hassling him for the money with no success. I have not yet attempted to go round and confront as I am thinking it will do nothing as this guy is obviously used to being harassed for money.

  1. Take him to VCAT and get a judgement. then
    a) Then take immediate action in court to force him to front court and explain his financial situation. (about $1200)
    b) so that I can sue him within the next 15 years if he becomes financial again, or if a bank is stupid enough to loan him money for a property.

  2. Wait 2 more years so the bankruptcy term is finished, then get my judgement at VCAT so I am potentially first in line to get cash for the next 15 years should he become financial. I believe I have 6 years to make a claim.

  3. Smash him with everything I have got spending 5K and bankrupt him a second time if he doesn't pay while he is still bankrupt so that he will probably never ever get credit again, and I will get satisfaction of knowing that he has 2 bankrupt permanent records (if this is possible).

  4. Forget about it all and enjoy life and treat it as an expensive lesson in how not to get ripped off and tell the missus she was right not to pay that day :) And know that this loser will always be a loser and will mess with the wrong person one day.

Open to any suggestions or thoughts on how others may have handled this sort of thing.

I am quite upset learning that a person can pretty much just get away with this theft/fraud.

Is there anything else I have got wrong? What should I do?

Cheers!

The rest of the story:
EDIT: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/131581?page=1#comment-1818…

Poll Options expired

  • 42
    Get a judgement and then wait and investigate him one day and sue if worth it.
  • 1
    Wait until after bankruptcy has finished then take action to get judgement and potentially sue.
  • 7
    Smash him NOW with no remorse or regard for my already deflated pocket.
  • 7
    Forgive and Forget (Well actually I will never forgive)
  • 143
    Engage Bikies.

closed Comments

  • Pretty sorry to hear the story. To forgive and forget looks best to me as you would have to spend much more time in all this if you would go for other options. I don't know how much you could potentially recover out of this — but think about your valuable time and all those costs for taking him to court. In my view it may not worth it.

    • +2

      Ya but how do you know he is not the 100th person ended up to forgive and forget? The scum is perhaps planning to play the same trick on the 101st victim?

      • +1

        I certainly have toyed with the idea of sanity over justice…
        I am considering all options and thank you for your opinion, you may well be right.

        I also do think its almost my civil duty as an Ozbargainer to do everything I can within reason to try teach him that doing this sort of thing is wrong, and its not cool to rip people off. Its just that maybe he doesn't care what people think… its a tough one.

        I do have money and a discounted legal service, so I think at the very least I will get a judgement against him so I have 15 years to sue if (and thats a big if) he ever becomes financial.

  • +8

    We need to form our own OzBargain bikie gang. A hundred or more of us circling his house day and night, hurling demands at him "or else"… he'll get the message. OzBargain never sleeps when it comes to recovering some lost money.

    I guess we'd have to be pushbike bikies, too. Cheaper. Naturally.

    • +9

      and forget eggs (why waste the money). We'll just chuck all our empty, sticky McFlurry cups all over his lawn so he has to wake up to the stench of soured old soft serve ice cream rising from the cup piles surrounding his house.

      See how he likes them apples.

      • +5

        The Ozb pushie patrol… I can see it now, 2XU last years stock, Julius Marlo 50% off shoes, Wiggle Bikes, sunnies that were a free gift from surf stitch, it would be a motley crew! :)

        • +3

          I can ride my kids balance bike that I got off deals direct when it was half price.

  • +4

    Try beating him in his game.Maybe this may work for you if you have the car keys (may not be required) and a willing mate:

    1. Add the guy as your favourite seller on ebay (lookout for his id from the message exchanges you may have had with hiim)
    2. Next time he lists the car you will be notified.
    3. Get a willing friend to tie up an inspection, drive test.
    4. Get him to drive test the car to your place.
    5. Maybe be present in the neighbourhood with a baseball bat, so that if the guy is in the car you can ask him to get off your property.
    6. I guess taking possession of your property is not a theft.

    Thanks for sharing it here mate. Best of luck.

    • +1

      I do have a set of keys, and believe me I'm looking for the car!
      Problem is I am 95% sure he has offloaded it last year - but he wont admit it to my debt collector.

      A mate and I have alerts set up for carsales, gumtree and ebay and I have all my fb friends on the lookout.
      Fortunately its a car that stands out a little (well last time I saw it) its a 4X4 with accessories.

      If he did sell it, and I took it off the street, I am a little worried that the new owner may report it stolen then we have an interesting scenario… the mind boggles.

      Why o why did I get caught up in all this??? :(

    • +1

      Another likely scenario is that the car's been stripped and stashed away in a wrecking yard somewhere. Virtually impossible to track or locate this vehicle.

  • +4

    The crime is obtaining property by deception: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/ca195882/s…

    In my experience police are very reluctant to do any work ever and most don't actually understand the law - especially those on the desk in the cop shop.

    If they refuse to act mention ask to see a senior officer and if you are still having no luck mention the ombudsman.
    You could also speak to a crim lawyer who could advise on the likelihood of successful prosecution.

    • +1

      NBC - could also be Obtain financial advantage by deception.

      Lawyer could advise.

      • Jeez, now this is interesting stuff, I did not know about this.
        This is exactly what he has done to me and I am pretty sure I could prove it in a court of law.
        I do have a Lawyer contact I will put this to them and see what it all means.

        Many thanks for this. It could be a very useful bargaining tool, or at least give the police the ammo they need to take action.
        Amazing job - Thanks so much, can't + enough!

      • Don't waste money to go to the blood sucking lawyers. Just make it clear you did not intend to call off the deal. You gave him the money and expects him to show up with the car at the licensing centre to complete the transfer of ownership documents.

        • He wont give me the car and wont tell me what he did with it. Maybe because he knows he broke the law? Its a pretty serious offence, If I thought he may get in a lot of trouble, it would be worth the $ he must be taught that you can't just keep getting away with it.

        • Another thing, did you also inform the police about the rego number of the car in case the scum uses the car for a more serious crime and involves you if he claims after selling the car to you and you lend him the car to conduct such crime.

        • Yes the detail of the car is recorded at the police station, they called him up and asked him to sort it out, he apparently said to them that he is going to pay me and that ha had not been working and now he is so he can pay installments. The whole time since I gave him the car back, he claimed to be working interstate. Just another load of bs.

        • +1

          Hi - you should note that claiming that he intends to pay you back is no defence against obtaining financial advantage by deception.

          My suggestion - tell him that you have spoken to the police - they are reluctant to charge him with obtaining financial advantage by deception over a relatively small sum as the prison sentence is up to 10 years (bold 10 YEARS) - however if pressed they will raise a prosecution.

          Tell him you have sought advice from a criminal lawyer - and that they have advised that the case would likely be successfully prosecuted - claims that you intend to 'pay back the money' are no defence -as it is the act of dishonestly appropriating that was the crime.

          Tell him he has a week to return your money - all of it - in cash - or you will ensure that your criminal lawyer will provides your testimony to the police and demand that they prosecute. Tell him once that happens police will be issuing a warrant for his arrest and once that is done there is no turning back.

          Make sure he knows you are not bullshitting. I do honestly beleive there is a case here.

          If you do it right he will find the money.

        • Thanks for the info. I will be taking steps to set up a meeting with a lawyer. This guy will not listen to any further threats, he just doesn't care. I actually want to take this as far as I can now I want to see if there is a case. I believe I have all of the evidence to have him prosecuted if I can get someone to take the case. I don't know much about it all, but I am a quick learner. I guess it also hinges on if he has priors as well.

        • It is not your responsibility to pay for a criminal (public) prosecution - it is the role of the police and police prosecutor. however sometimes you need to convince / encourage / demand them to do their job, a criminal lawyer should be able to impartially advise on whether a crime has been committed and provide weightto your argument in convincing the police. Dont spend big bucks though.

        • Great, thats the sort of advice I need! Thank you.

        • Yes, once you go to a solicitor, you will see another $7,500 disappear rather rapidly.

  • Instead of asking on bargain

    Just get proper legal advice from a lawyer

    Also I suggest staying near his street and when he comes back
    Confront him

    You need some goons to come with you, like how they do it on the sopranos

    • I will add stakeout to my list of options, may be time consuming, and I have my doubts about if he even resides at the addresses he gave me any more. And it costs $ to find out this sort of thing as I will have to have him investigated (further). I will certainly consider this though, I would like a face - to - face , that's for sure.

    • Lawyers will most likely advise you to drop the case since the risk/reward is not in your favour, with relatively little slice of the pie to their own.

      • Yes probably, but its getting less and less about the money and more about the principal of it all. Lying to my face on so many occasions, and learning that at least 7 others have fallen foul of this guys bull$hit just recently.

        The Ozb community have given me some great leads, and I am exploring all options just in case. I am not getting false hopes up, and I am certainly not going to waste excessive dollars on this.

    • This is really easy if you had bothered to insure the car before you picked it up, even if you insured the car immediately after the car was purchased you would still be covered. Insurance/banks really do help in these situations. They hold the liability for you not having a car and will provide all the advice how to recover the car or cash, in fact the insurance company will have to pay you for the car if it's not recovered. Also I would definitely report the car stolen as the guy will not return the car.

      • +1

        There are a lot of things I would have done differently had I known what lay ahead.

      • +1

        Good advice for next time! I'll keep this in mind if I ever buy a car second hand…

  • Unfortunately it is a case of buyer beware.

    Alarm bells should have been going off and you should never have parted with your cash.

    If you know his address, maybe get the police involved?

    • Thanks, yeah caught me off guard. Police can't/wont do anything. Although I have a new lead that he has broken the law and gained financially from deception. All I need to do is have the police, or police prosecution take the case to the next step. I'd say he would have a police record , maybe they would love to get him again.

  • So he had bad feedback for similar transactions on eBay and you failed to pick these up before handing over cash?
    I'd say you got sloppy with your simple and quick background checks, I mean even if I am buying a $10 or $100 item from eBay I always check the feedback, no amount of sweet ass talking will stop buyers giving their opinions on the seller's behavior and forget good fb anyone can get that look at neg/bad fb and see how seller handles problems, some ignore comments, some give 'copy 'n paste' replies, others give proper replies

    Also the big mistake was giving the car back to get him to fix it, I would always have a mechanic to inspect the car on the spot, and if you are easily manipulated(including the typical 'buy it now or you lose it' routine!) take a friend with you, its harder to pull the wool over two people, you don't pay the full price until car is fully inspected, so if there are say $2000 worth of repairs you get your own mechanic to fix car and subtract repairs from final purchase price, I still find it incredibly naive when people let the seller 'fix' the car for a sale, their is a clear conflict of interest and certain financial gain for the seller to misrepresent/skimp on repairs

    As it stands maybe you can take him to civil court get a court order to garnish his wages over the next 5 years, the fact he is bankrupt makes things a little more complicated so good luck on that, assuming you win you might be waiting a while, he would need to have a full time job otherwise paying off $10 a week will take quite a while…

    • The ebay feedback was after my dealings, so he was dealing with others about other cars at about the same time. I didn't see any bad feedback until about a month or so after I had parted with the cash. The negative feedback had come after my dealings. I have 'report to ebay on my list'.
      Although I have dealt with Ebay in the past, I uncovered and reported a scam where the seller was selling an item every 2 minutes for weeks (potentially around a 200K scam) and never sent an item and had 15-20 working days for postage in their terms and conditions so that no one thought it was a scam. Long story short ebay did nothing until it was way too late and hundreds of people lost their money, so I don't have much faith in Ebay and their resolutions team.

      I had a mechanic with me and he is a smart bloke, he got just as sucked in with this and we both confronted the guy with the cold hard fact that he would have the pink copy of the RWC. He just held tight with the lost it story and was so so so convincing that I would not have any trouble.

      But yes you are right, I should have never parted with cash without RWC, and should have just fixed it myself at my cost instead of handing it back - but I was not to know any of what I know now.

      I will post back here with outcomes, I am not going to drop it until all reasonable options have been explored!!

      • +1

        Ebay get their commission, even from scams.

        • Yes they do, but I had the last laugh as Paypal had only just recently been bought out by Ebay, and Paypal would have been paying out a lot of $.
          I created a website at the time through google groups and listed the scammer and all the activity on formus etc and found many others that had been scammed. I also contacted a bunch of people that had left negative feedback at the tail end of the scam and they were all mighty pi$$ed.
          I reported it to the police and also to a QLD cop that my brother had given me details of. My brother actually uncovered a different scam up there on Ebay about a year before and found a cop that made it his mission in life to catch the scum. (he actually did catch them and my bro got his money)

          He took my report and followed up and traced it to an old peoples home they had opened a bank account in a lady's name there with fake ID and were raiding the letterbox for mail about the account, and I assume to get and activate the card. Initially he suspected that it was someone working there, but got to a dead end the trail went cold.

          Moral to the story I guess is that there are people out there like this, and there are also cops out there that do care!

  • +1

    Sorry that this has happened to you, we live among scumbags. You don't find many honest and trustworthy people like yourself and me, and ozbargain community :)

    About 13 years ago I had an accident with my telstar tx5, side impact, I went to the wreckers to find some parts (doors etc.) as I walked out, a guy started a conversation with me, asking me how the accident occurred, I explained to him what had happened and he said he could fix it cheaply for me, I asked him how much? he said $1500, he gave me his address and a time to meet him. I came to the address, it was a used car dealership in concord I think. I approached him and a part of me was worried that I may be duped into "giving" (as opposed to him stealing it) him my car, so I asked him one last question, what tools are you going to used, he said I've got a machine that can pulled out the b-pillar, I then handed over my car keys, I walked away for a few metres, then some thing pulled me back, I realised that he hadn't give me any paperwork and so I walked back to him and asked for my keys back because I needed "to get something out of my car", as soon as I got back into my car, I bolted out of there. Ultimately, it came down to documentation, if he had a business he should've given me some sort of paperwork. The car wasn't worth that much, maybe $2500 at the time, but if he had own wrecking business or had a mate that had one, it would've been worth a lot more.

    • Thanks for sharing your story! Yes I remember a couple of times having those same alarm bells ringing, but this guy was a pro, so smooth I never saw it coming. Well done to you for potentially stopping a crook, it is always better to be safe than sorry. Either way with my case and how it ends, one thing is for sure, a lot more people and myself included will be wary.
      I think its car dealer only from here on in for me, you are so much more protected even though you can pay more. Cheers.

      • You aren't too much better off with a car dealers either. I've had 2 bad experience with 2 different car dealers. It's just a matter of doing your homework and doing things right without getting pressured into things like handing over cash on a promise all will be ok.

        A car I owned bought from a dealer had an rwc had an inspection date of 3 days after I picked the car up. I queried this with vicroads and they literally just don't care as long as they have the certificate that's the end of the line for them.

  • +4

    I don't really understand why you gave the full $7500 and then handed the keys back to someone… that's… (no words to describe)

    • +1

      Yes it was a stupid act in most peoples eyes, I couldn't agree more in hindsight. But unfortunately I am a very trusting person and believed that this guy would not rip me off like he did. It wont happen again ;)

      • one more thing, you don't mention if the seller transferred the rego into your name when you paid, you said something about a contract, is the car in your name? if not legally you might not have a leg to stand on, personally after getting the official inspection/repairs done i would ask seller to meet me at local RTA/RMS office, pay him say 1K upfront, get him to transfer rego in your presence to make it all legit(and take photo of his ID) then give him the rest of money, no excuses like "i'm too busy mate, i'm good for it, trust me!" if he refuses or makes excuses just walk away, i'd rather blow the $500 deposit away than the $7500, just call it a "life lesson"!

        • Yeah I have both a receipt for the vehicle (Proof of title ownership IMO) and it was registered in his name and I have the transfer papers all drawn up. Problem is that transfer papers are useless without a RWC, and transfer papers do not transfer ownership, they just transfer the registration. It is important to note in Victoria at least, ownership is by title/receipt and registration is by transfer, they are 2 very different items.

          I have many ideas generated by the good people here and am going to both ponder and explore my options now. It really doesn't sit well with me that I should have to just have the expensive lesson, if there is even a slight chance I can cause some grief back to this prick, trust me I will try (within $ reason)
          Thanks!

  • My only advice is to not choose #3, it's not worth wasting your money.

    • Agreed, satisfaction would be good, but I have lost enough already and chances are he wouldn't give a hoot about another bankruptcy.

  • +2

    is he a lot bigger than you or would a baseball bat even the odds?

  • Just out of interest - seems the going rate for bikies is too high for this debt http://m.theage.com.au/victoria/police-warn-on-bikie-muscle-…

    On a serious note - I had a shocker of an experience buying a used car several years ago. It turned out to be a grey import with no compliance plate (I didn't know to check against the rego sticker), and a broken odometer. Worse still the mechanic I took it too didn't notice any of these - because I serviced my old car there they did the pre purchase inspection for free. The vendors willingness to have it inspected raised the possibility he was oblivious but a bit doubtful of that.

    After considering the options and potential legal costs / added stress of dragging it out I took it to the wreckers sold it for scrap and cancelled the green slip, recovering abt 2k and chalked it up to experience. That 5k was a hell of a lot of money to me back then, but fast forward 9 yrs 5k just isn't as much to me now as it was then. Almost everyone gets burned by something unexpected at some point. But the lesson was probably worth more than I lost - I became much more thorough and shrewd in anything contractural, probably saving more than that in a number of subsequent car and property purchases. Good luck with whichever path you choose on this it can happen to anyone and it will get better

    • +1

      Sorry to hear you got burned too. If any good was to come of this, it will be exactly that. I will be far more careful about who I deal with and how I conduct business, as people have said there are more cars out there. It's a lot of money to me, but its not a life changing amount at the end of the day.
      I'm more chasing the prick now on principal although that may not be the best option for my own sanity and hip pocket.

  • wow, i never thought it would happen here, i bought more than 4 car on private sales for the last 10 years, never had any problem. thanks for sharing tho` to warn us there is scum out there.

    • +1

      Yeah they are out there unfortunately :( Happy to share if it saves one person going through what I have been through.

  • +1

    Hey OP, the point about PPSR is an important one, make sure you register an interest otherwise you may not have much recourse against a subsequent purchaser if the vehicle is on sold.

    Prior to filing proceedings, I would try and find out as much as I could about the guy, particularly whether he held any other vehicles.

    I agree with you that insolvency is not going to be any help with this guy. If someone has no real assets going bankrupt is like being whipped with a piece of lettuce, particularly if you use the government trustee (ITSA) as they let their bankrupts get away with anything.

    99% of the time in cases like this when proceedings are sold, they dont even bother to file a defence, so you will need to obtain default judgment. Personally, for something like this, I would try and case as much as possible any personal property that the guy owns and try and recover something through a warrant to seize property.

    Unfortunately, depending on who your local bailiff is, results may vary. A lot of lazy sheriffs will ask the debtor whether their TV is encumbered or not, and if the debtor says yes, they wont touch it. Others will actually press the matter. Ideally, he will have another motor vehicle, and I would angle for this as much as possible. If you see any cars around, do a rego and PPSR search and aim for that via your enforcement warrant.

    • Hi there, thanks for that one, its on my list to follow up tomorrow. I'll call them and see what they can do, I have checked online and information is limited.

      Yeah having been bankrupted by the bank, they would have siezed everything they could to pay back the secured loans, all the other 6 creditors are listed as unsecured, they have no recourse to get a cent back.

      My debt is unsecured, but it occured after the the bankruptcy so the bankruptcy does not apply for me.
      I need to get legal advice about how it all works, but I will be getting a judgement against him for the debt, and then assess the options after that.

      The system works this way, you get a judgement, and the enforcement is not part of the judgement.

      If the judgement is awarded to you they do put an order to pay on the debtor, but it is not enforced. Enforcement is when you take them to court once they don't pay and sue them. They subpoena the mongrels and they have to front court (or can be arrested) and under oath swear their financials.
      The judge will have vic roads registered interests and any title search for property owned.

      If there are assets worth seizing, they can issue an order for the sheriff to seize. In Victoria only vehicles over 9K in value (value at auction) will be seized, and it can't be primary vehicle (that sucks)

      Also whitegoods etc they will only seize double ups, and there are so many rules to protect these mongrels.

      There isn't much protection for people that get burned and these bastards know it.

  • +1

    $500 deposit? thats a bit much. max i would give would be $50

    • Depends on the value of the car, if a RWC wasn't needed and it was reasonably cheap I'd accept a $50 deposit. However if it's of decent value and I need to obtain a RWC, I would request atleast $500 - $1000 deposit to protect myself for the time + cost of obtaining a RWC incase the buyer pulls out.

  • ok, get a claim against him and then take sherife's to his house and take goods to the value of what he stole from you is about your only legal option

    or forgive him and get another car

    or do something for proactive (but the law will be on his side and im sure he will make sure its used to his advantage)

    as a bankrupt, im sure he has stuff hidden away but that would mean paying a private detective to locate money or goods and then it would belong to his bankrupt estate (who i am sure wont care an iota about your claim) so the first is bust

    I like going all old testament but they say you cant cheat an honest man (I know this always isnt true myself), so you would need to have VERY 'clean hands' and be a bit of a bastard but im ok with an 'eye for an eye'…

    But forgiveness is cheap, plentiful and free… Quicker to start saving up or getting a small loan and be more careful this time hey!

    • Yeah, I have some options I will share the outcomes here in the next few days.

      I will be applying to the court to have a Judgement against him. At least I have 15 years to claim the debt (unless he goes bankrupt again) so it will sit in the back of his mind and he will have to be careful to hide assets or property or I will sue.

      Unfortunately apart from that course of action, I would say I will have to swallow the bitter pill of defeat, get over it and get on with life as you have suggested.
      I know its a lot of coin, but in a way I asked for it by not protecting myself and trusting this mongrel, but at the end of the day it's not like I will be paying it back for the next 10 years or anything. It could have well been worse.

      • +1

        I think the best outcome you could look forward to is a moral victory. Do what you must to get a good night's rest, money comes and goes, best not dwell over it and just move on with better things in your life. All the best!

        • Thanks Wanga, I have taken all comments here on board and this is certainly an option. I may let it go in the end, but if there's anything I can easily do I will look into it before forgetting about it. A moral victory would be satisfying if it wont cost me much more time or $. I'll make that decision shortly and report back.

  • +1

    You aint getting any money back so it's sensible to not spend any more trying.
    Personally, and I don't endorse anyone does it, I would break both his knee caps (he wouldn't know it was me of course)

  • So the same situation can happen to someone buys a cheap second hand car from a car dealer? Customer pays cash or cheque, once transaction goes through hands over the keys and tells the customer to look for it in the car yard but in fact has secretly driven the car elsewhere. Customer comes back and car dealer says will return you the money if you bring me to the court. Customer thinks it is only a few thousand dollars car and cannot be bothered to go to the court for it and gives up?

    • That is most certainly the case but the difference being that the business would have a lot to lose if you took them to court, because if a Judgement is awarded to you, you just need to spend about 500-1K on your Lawyer as its a straight cut case of suing and court costs (not your lawyer fee) would be awarded to you.

      The dealer would be ordered to pay and if they did not comply, you can have an enforcement order on them which would allow the seizure of assets or freezing of accounts to take money from them.

      Chances are once you have your judgement, they will just pay you off to see it closed. If you can't get the judgement because of some further technicalities then you would be screwed.

      In my case, he is bankrupt and a title search reveals he has absolutely no assets in his name that an investigator can find. It would take a lot of work and money to reveal any hidden assets and its not worth that money as its likely to reveal nothing.

      A business has a lot more to lose than a bankrupt individual, but as you had said, yes they could pull this stunt on individuals and if no one could be bothered suing or getting a judgement, then they just get away with it. I'm pretty sure they could hush you as well if you tried to name and shame if you didnt get a legal Judgement awarded to you.

      I'm learning a fair bit about the legal system during my 'ordeal' and the more I learn, the more I think that you can't depend on it like you may first think.

      • What if the car dealer has 10 cars in the car yard and each car owned by 1 company i.e. 10 companies altogether. If the customer really does bring the car dealer to the court the car dealer could just voluntary wind up the company that sold the car. It is much better to file a company bankruptcy than a personal bankruptcy.

  • +4

    Start a kickstarter and we all put in 5 bucks each to see this guy rot in a cell, I would be in. A few months ago someone stole my not running car, must have had a tow truck, surely stole it for scrap. A-hole supreme, it was one of the only things I had left from my deceased father. These guys are tow truck drivers for pity's sake

    When the plates were stolen 3 weeks earlier cops dusted for prints, when the car was stolen they did nothing. They didn't even call me back when they promised to.

  • +1

    Sorry for your misfortune. I'm astounded that the police won't help you.

    At the end of the day, you had a car, the other guy took it by deception, now you don't have a car. Isn't that theft? Or fraud?

    You have his details, paperwork even - surely this is an open and shut case for cops.

    What about a current affair or today tonight?

    • +1

      Unfortunately, police don't get involved in civil cases for simple a reason, there's always two sides of the story - "he said" "she said", and as such would require litigation.

      My mum had a dispute (long ago) with a business, she took work home, finished it on time, and upon delivery, the owner refused to pay for the labour, I called the police because the owner threatened to stab my mum with a pair scissors. When the police came, I told them the situation about non-payment, they advised that they could not make judgement and we needed to make a civil claim, my mum being of non-English background gave up the fight, and I was too young to fight for her. So she moved on.

      My dad was stationary at the lights when a car ploughed into his van, the other car was completely totalled and my dad only required about $1200 repair (rear steel step & tow bar does wonders), details were exchanged, but the other driver was uninsured and my dad had to make a civil claim, which he did, but with the victory came another blow, getting the money back in a timely manner, the other driver could only afford $10/week, so my dad gave up the fight as well.

      People do the right thing by taking out insurance, but there are many people out there who either don't care or want to save money by not taking out insurance, and the law's on their side because they can claim hardship and the law will protect them. Third party injury insurance CTP is compulsory, but not third party property damage.

      • +2

        This is one of the most important reasons to have fully comprehensive insurance. My car was rear-ended recently, by a dead-beat with no insurance. I called my insurer, and told them what happened. They waived my excess, and my car was fixed without charge.

        • +1

          For me, if the car is worth more than $5,000 I'd definitely insure it comprehensively, otherwise third party property damage. I remember smashing into a truck and it consequently hit the power pole and damaged it somewhat (can't remember what exactly it was), I received a letter of compensation from the power company, requesting $1700, I passed the letter to my comprehensive insurer (as they had requested from me after I informed them) and they paid it in full, wow! I didn't get market value though, so I guess they took a bit back, oh well.

          Full comprehensive insurance isn't the same as it used to be. I've read somewhere on this forum about a dirty deed some insurance companies are now playing, such as, if you increase your excess to, say $2000 (to lower your premium) and you have an accident, but the accident repair cost is quoted at under that excess, then they won't cover you at all, even if you're NOT at fault?? I'm not sure if this is what I read, can somebody confirm this?

          As with any type of insurance, we must read the PDS.

        • Ferguscan, who's your insurer?

        • This is a true statement (Not sure about the not at fault part), but if your excess is higher than the repair they will not get involved.

  • +1

    So you have his full name and possible address? I don't see what's so hard about confronting him face to face. Bring a few mates if you have to… Someone who is bankrupt would have cash in the house.

  • +1

    I sold a car a while back and the elderly guy that purchased it had no idea at all about cars or what to look for. He paid in cash on the spot after a short test drive.
    Luckily the car was 100% genuine and in perfect condition at half the price of a car yard.
    It amazed me how unprepared he was … he would have been a sitting duck for a con artist.

    The thing here is to do something to prevent this from happening to you again… and in life these days, it will, I guarantee you that.
    Not just with cars but in all deals of a financial matter.

    You can chase this guy on principle but I cannot see you achieving anything.
    Stalking his house with some goons in company will only result in more trouble and is suggested by people who watch too many movies. You could also incur more costs and a criminal record for this also.

    • Indeed there are suckers out there and these scumbags prey on it. I'm not stupid, but got so sucked into this whole thing so I can see how easy it is for them.

      Yeah I am not letting him be the victim here, I'm not retaliating the way some suggest ;)

  • Just wanted to say I feel sorry for ya, OP!

    • Thanks mate, share the story so that more know what can happen if you let your guard down.

  • +1

    As the legal owner of the vehicle, could you transfer the registration into your own name….and then cash in the remaining registration and de-register the car. I think there is a category of registration for cars that are not roadworthy. If the cops ever see it about and pull it over they will recognize it as unregistered and impound it. The guy driving it will be charged with driving an unregistered car at the very least! You can recover some of your $$ depending on how much rego is remaining on the car.

    Can you name and shame!! I would def post this guys name around on various car websites etc, even if just to warn others.

    I would never walk away from $7.5K, remember "all it takes for evil to flourish is for good men to do nothing."

    • +1

      I can't transfer the registration as I don't have an Road worthy cert, which was the biggest part of the problem in the first place. I should have NEVER handed over the cash until it was done.

      I really really want to name and shame (and I'm looking into it but it will be a last resort), I have just found another whole bunch of activity under a different Ebay username from a google search on his number.
      I can't believe he is putting his phone number in the listing making it publicly searchable!! I am in contact with him today and putting a few scenarios on him and will report back how I go if he responds. I am furious he is still trading cars, trucks and bikes on Ebay whilst owing me. :(

      • Remember that the number one defence to defamation is truth ;)

      • +1

        That's actually good news, make another ebay account and msg him that you would like to inspect whatever it is that he is selling or buy it and arrange to pick up.

        You now know where he lives, go there and ask for your car back if he says he sold it, I'm pretty sure that's fraud and maybe the police will then act.

        • Take a witness if you do, and possibly video.

      • In Victoria you can still transfer the title of the car but not the registration without a RWC, the only requirement is that you pay stamp duty upfront and present RWC within 30 days otherwise rego gets suspended.

        • +1

          I'll check into this, as far as I am concerned I own the title to the vehicle, I have a receipt to prove it. I do have my doubts that this is how it works but I will find out.

          I will gladly put it in my name if I can, have the rego cancel after 30 days, then I will only transfer it back when I see my money. If not, once its my vehicle the police will have no choice but to accept a stolen vehicle report.

        • Your above statement is correct, I've purchased a vehicle like this before, it was a cheap car ($2000) so I wasn't terribly concerned with fronting the stamp duty fee.

          Essentially I paid $2000 for the car and gave the seller $50 for stamp duty, he went into Vicroads the next day and transferred the car into my name using the transfer papers. I called up Vicroads to confirm the car was under my name and then got a letter after 30 days to advise my registration will be suspended if I don't present a RWC within 30 days.

          He basically wanted to protect himself for any fines I may get and I was happy to risk $50 to avoid the hassle of taking a day off work to go Vicroads, he seem trustworthy to me anyway.

          As mentioned, they transfer the ownership of the car to your name, however the RWC is tied with the registration so it can be suspended if it hasn't been supplied.

  • It disgusts me that there are dishonest people out there that can get away with this sort of thing - it makes me SO ANGRY. I really hope he gets what he deserves (karma) and stories like these make me more determined to be an honest and good person myself. I am actually soon to be selling my car 2nd hand and I will be 100% honest, but having read this thread I will now go beyond that and offer people advice of what they should be looking at and doing to avoid getting scammed incase they don't end up buying from me!

    I'm sorry for your experience OP, and thanks for posting to raise awareness for the rest of us. Some good suggestions in this thread too.

    • +2

      Thank you for your kind comments, it has really motivated me to make people more aware of what's out there. I started this post to see if any ideas can be generated to help my situation, but it's turned into quite a good resource to raise awareness of what can happen, and what people can do to avoid going through this kind of thing. Cheers.

  • +4

    the last option is to pull a heisenberg on him. just need a mate and a red laser dot pointer while you explain to him that you've hired an assassin that will follow him around for the next year.

    jokes aside. that's some serious bad luck dude. I'm looking to buy a car but I'd only put $50 as a max deposit until I can get a bank cheque..

  • +1

    Have you thought of social media? Facebook for example, bung his name in, Chances are, he'll turn up. Check all the pics, find him, befriend a few of his friends….find out his hangouts, stalk him online, then pounce!!

    Amazing what you can do with a little google-fu, I'm sure relatives an family want to know more about him!

  • It is experiences like this that people prefer and keep going back to buying 2nd hand cars from a registered dealer. Suing a company who is still in business seemed a lot easier than suing an unemployed individual. Next time before we buy a car from individuals, it might pay to see proof that they are not bankrupt. They ask that in house renting, in most employment, so why should handing money to them be any different?

  • This probably isn't helpful, but I would be committing a few criminal offences of my own. I might never see the money again, but this bloke would never forget double crossing me.

  • -2

    I will only be buying from female car owners from now onwards.

    • Don't listen to this sexist cheaparse

      • -1

        It's statistics.

  • i think this country needs cleansing especially the police department…we need protests/uprisings like the ones in the middle east that would be fun;)

  • +3

    To be blunt, you've pissed your money into the wind.

    Learn from it, and hopefully a number of readers here will also learn from it without having to learn the lesson the hard way.

    If you don't fully understand the rules, buy from a dealer.

    You are reluctant to release any details - I don't understand why. If what you state is the truth.

    If I was you I'd post a comment here with as many details as you know.

    Eg.
    Guys name
    Guys number
    Guys email address
    Guys 2 addresses

    Car make/model/year
    Car VIN
    Car rego

    EBAY User ID he used then and now

    Anything else relevant…

    With a bit of luck someone on here will know someone who knows him…

    I am not pointing fingers here - but how would you describe this guys appearance/nationality?
    I have a funny feeling I know the answer already…

    If my feeling is right, one of the reasons you are afraid to name/shame is you are concerned about the possible reprisals that might occur to you…

    • +1

      I will name and shame as a last resort (and would take great pleasure in it), but while there is a glint of hope I may see the money or car, I have to play it cool. I'm working hard on options, and this may end up being a criminal matter if the police will prosecute so naming on a public forum could harm my chances. Not getting hopes up because the more I investigate the less likely that this will occur. I'm waiting on actual legal advice direct from a lawyer on my options from here. Stay tuned.

  • BTW - ANyone bankrupted once won't get credit from a top tier lender ever again. Doesn't need to be twice to stop that.

    But it won't stop loan sharks and bottom feeders lending to him a fat margins…

  • I feel for you mate. Hope you manage to find some consolation at the end. I would also report this guy's ebay/trading activity to the ATO, note your transaction, his bankruptcies and all that.
    It might help turn the screws on the guy although they probably are too understaffed to do anything.

    • +1

      The trustee will be contacted shortly and I'm preparing to post up here everything in the next few days, I have not been sitting around the last few days, been investigating hard and contacting a lot of people/organisations to get to the bottom of all the leads generated here…. Pretty sure the ATO wouldn't get involved, but thanks for the idea ;)

  • Hey OP as someone currently looking for a car this thread came at a good time. Your situation sucks but I'm glad to see you are proactively doing something about this. I'll probably go to a dealer to avoid any scumbags.

  • +1

    So over the past few days I have been talking to this guy. I have confronted about the whole thing and insisted on meeting up with him (he still claims to be interstate – even though I know where he works now thanks to en ebay listing about his work vehicle and work location, and I can see a long string of ebay sales with photos at his current address). He claims the Ebay sales are for family members and friends without an Ebay account, and I said to him I don’t believe that for a second because the descriptions do not state that at all.

    Read for yourselves & spread the word, I figure its public page on the internet and I'm not posting anything at all personal: http://www.ebay.com.au/sch/rambo26031986/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs…

    I asked about the bankruptcy, he claimed he went bankrupt by declaring it last week (inferring I don’t have a chance of getting money now unless I do what he says), and I caught him out because I know it was a forced bankruptcy 18 months ago, he wouldn’t comment but was smart ass about the whole thing like a ‘You can’t do a thing attitude’ and said If I take him to court he will just cry poor and offer to pay me $10 a week and there is nothing I can do.

    He claims to have given my car to his brother as his brother repaired the car, I said that its bs you can’t do that, give me back the car, he said no that’s not fair for his brother who apparently paid to fix the car up(more bs). I had previously offered to take the car in its ‘blown up’ condition but he refused to release it to me, this was his plan all along from the second I dropped it back off to repair it.
    He said that he will draw up a contract with his Lawyer to make payments to me on a weekly basis. I said I will believe it when I see it.

    He told me that he can’t leave the country until his debts are paid so I have no worries. I know that is false because the debt to me is not ruled by the court and has nothing to do with his bankruptcy.
    He is still taking me for a fool and feeding me a line of bull$hit, I am furious but he has a point. What can I do really do about it?

    Well here is a summary of where I am up to each item separate to allow individual comments.

    I’m out of options I’m afraid. Its been a rough ride, but I can admit when I’m defeated, I can’t believe I trusted this mongrel, please be safe out there and be a lot smarter than I was!!!

    • He's actually telling you the truth for once. A bankrupt can't leave the country without the Trustee's consent. He would be on Customs no-fly list and his passport would have been confiscated by the Trustee.

      • Hey Jayc yeah I agree, its a false claim though reassuring me that he can't leave the country until he pays me. I have no idea how much he is still in for with the trustees, and at the moment, don't really care I hope its a lot.

Login or Join to leave a comment