I have been ripped off while buying a car - Calling all OzBargainers for advice and opinions

John Dough on 24/01/2014 - 21:33
Last edited 29/01/2014 - 22:06

Hello all fellow Ozbargainers, pull up a chair and grab some popcorn and take a listen to my story….I'm keeping specific detail minimal due to the fact this may end up in court.

The Story:

So back in August 2013 I responded to an ad for a for private vehicle sale on Ebay. I went round and the vehicle was pretty much exactly what I wanted at a good price $7500.

The guy talked me into putting a $500 deposit on the car claiming many people were calling and wanting to buy it. I was a little nervy but really wanted the car. The guy seemed legit.

The car was to be sold with a RWC and he was to provide it within 7 Days and I would come back with the rest of the cash then.

I get a phone call 2 days later that the RWC was as good as done, but the car needed to go in for a second inspection in which it was 100% guaranteed to pass and told me I needed to go round and give him the rest of the cash and that he couldn't get time off work so I would need to take the car in for the second inspection the following day.

I went round and asked to see the pink paper of the second inspection for the RWC, in which he had conveniently misplaced. After some great bs artist work he convinced me it was 'all good mate' I reluctantly parted with the rest of the cash and wrote into the contract that any further works in the RWC would have to be completed by him if any.

I took the car in and there was a lot of work needed, called him back he said no problem bring it back he will do the work.

I took the car back and told him to fix it, to which he agreed. Two days later he calls me up and says the car is blown up and towed to a mates garage and his mate had started pulling it apart to put parts on another car for me. I said no way, I'm coming round to sort this out, he claimed he was interstate and couldn't help me out, I said tell me your mates address Ill go round and sort it with him, he refused. I went round the the 2 Addresses I had on my transfer papers and he wasn't at either property or was hiding, and neither was the vehicle.

He kept answering his phone, and said he will pay me the money back, to which I said you must pay my money back, you lied to me about the RWC and then took my car and won’t give it back.

I have spent the last 5 months in conjunction with a Debt collector (Family Friend) chasing him for the money. The moron keeps claiming he will pay me, but his story keeps changing, and he has said he will and has paid at least 10 times now, I don't believe a word he has ever said to be true. I have become quite enraged about the whole thing.

I had this guy investigated and he has had 7 Judgements against him in the last 3 years and has been forcibly bankrupted by the CBA 18 months ago (Foreclosed for $400,000) (well before he incurred this debt with me) but no further judgements against him since then.

I went to the police and told them the story, they said even though its technically my car, I gave it to him and its not stolen, its a civil matter, take him to court.

I have had a lot of different ideas about what to do next and my legal standing.

I ask the OzB crew the following for opinions on potential actions, Assuming he has no assets or cash whatsoever right now, and I have not spoken to him for 2 months while the Debt collector has been hassling him for the money with no success. I have not yet attempted to go round and confront as I am thinking it will do nothing as this guy is obviously used to being harassed for money.

  1. Take him to VCAT and get a judgement. then
    a) Then take immediate action in court to force him to front court and explain his financial situation. (about $1200)
    b) so that I can sue him within the next 15 years if he becomes financial again, or if a bank is stupid enough to loan him money for a property.

  2. Wait 2 more years so the bankruptcy term is finished, then get my judgement at VCAT so I am potentially first in line to get cash for the next 15 years should he become financial. I believe I have 6 years to make a claim.

  3. Smash him with everything I have got spending 5K and bankrupt him a second time if he doesn't pay while he is still bankrupt so that he will probably never ever get credit again, and I will get satisfaction of knowing that he has 2 bankrupt permanent records (if this is possible).

  4. Forget about it all and enjoy life and treat it as an expensive lesson in how not to get ripped off and tell the missus she was right not to pay that day :) And know that this loser will always be a loser and will mess with the wrong person one day.

Open to any suggestions or thoughts on how others may have handled this sort of thing.

I am quite upset learning that a person can pretty much just get away with this theft/fraud.

Is there anything else I have got wrong? What should I do?

Cheers!

The rest of the story:
EDIT: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/131581?page=1#comment-1818…

Poll Options expired

  • 42
    Get a judgement and then wait and investigate him one day and sue if worth it.
  • 1
    Wait until after bankruptcy has finished then take action to get judgement and potentially sue.
  • 7
    Smash him NOW with no remorse or regard for my already deflated pocket.
  • 7
    Forgive and Forget (Well actually I will never forgive)
  • 143
    Engage Bikies.
Financial

closed Comments

  • donbot on 24/01/2014 - 22:31
    +10

    Chalk it up to experience buddy… you aint ever seeing that cash again I wouldn't have thought.

    Having bought a 2nd hand car privately just recently - there is no way you part with any serious cash (more than an initial deposit to secure the car) before:

    1. Sighting the original RWC papers if it is to come with one.
    2. Checking the PPSR for finance/stolen/write-off registers.
    3. In our case, RACV inspection report. Whilst not mandatory - it uncovered the slightest of slight leak with the cooling system. Managed to knock $150 off the price of the car (almost covering the cost of the inspection for some mechanical piece of mind).

    Regardless of how good a deal seems, there will ALWAYS be another crop up. If something (and I mean anything) doesnt smell right/check out/sit well with you, then walk away. Stick to your gut instinct - there are more cars out there than single ladies - you will find a 2nd hand car suitable for price/condition/model easier than you will find a date.

    • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:18
      +2

      Hi there, Thanks for the reply.
      Indeed I did all the security checks, stolen vehicle and registered checking.

      I got tied up in all that and was blind sided by this guy as he put the pressure on saying that I had to take the car or he would sell it to someone else because he did not have time to go to the RWC place himself. I initially told him no way, but in true con man style he talked me into it over a couple of days of persistent phone calls and reassurances, and he blatantly lied that he had completed the work 100% and the car would pass the RWC with no problem at all. My second mistake was handing back the vehicle, I should have just taken the car to my mechanic and spent the $600 estimated costs to do it all myself.

      I should have walked away and just lost the 500 deposit - Isn't hindsight such a wonderful thing! :)

      Great advice from you there, alarm bells were ringing but I really wanted the car and thought whats the worst that could happen!

      • NatNitsuj on 28/01/2014 - 15:27
        +1

        …he put the pressure on saying that I had to take the car or he would sell it to someone else because he did not have time to go to the RWC place himself. I initially told him no way, but in true con man style he talked me into it over a couple of days of persistent phone calls and reassurances…

        If he really was going to sell to someone else he wouldn't have called you back, especially multiple calls over a couple of days. Once he did that the ball was in your court and you could have lowballed him until it was worth your while to get the car into RWC yourself.

        IANAL but you may not see your money back. If he's bankrupt his previous creditors get money before you do.

    • dealman on 28/01/2014 - 12:36
      +7

      Stick to your gut instinct - there are more cars out there than single ladies

      A PLUS for that comment alone…

  • mskeggs on 24/01/2014 - 22:53

    You poor bastard.
    Option 4 is looking good at this point, although I would go back to the cops - you gave him the car to get fixed, but now he has taken it.
    Perhaps you could toss some eggs at his house every few months for kicks.
    Since you have friendly debt collector on him already, keep that up. The stress he will be feeling will be pretty unpleasant, even though he has your money.

    • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:20

      Thanks, yes he keeps telling him he will pay on a date and then doesn't, so he is getting to the end of what he will do for me and has advised that in his opinion this crook will not pay - ever. Unless we can sue him, and I believe its fruitless as we wont have a penny to his name.

    • macrocephalic on 28/01/2014 - 09:04
      +3

      So a car can't be considered stolen if the owner gives you the keys - even if you had an agreement on when it was to be returned? Sounds like I know how to get a new car; I'll just open up a temporary car detailing place, then never return any of the vehicles.

      • wtfnodeal on 28/01/2014 - 09:56
        +2

        It will only work if the cops in your area know nothing about the law and as incompetence as the OW staff. Yeah probably mostly former OW staff quit their jobs and now work at the police station OP went to.

        • kwaker on 01/02/2014 - 12:36
          -1

          And let's face it. All cops are that incompetent.

        • mecind on 16/03/2014 - 09:11

          they are extremely good at giving you the tickets

  • Glittergirl on 24/01/2014 - 23:14
    +8

    So sorry to hear of your experience. I have no advice unfortunately, but were you able to leave some feedback on Ebay?

    • npc on 25/01/2014 - 08:34
      +2

      lol

      • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:22

        Interesting there that I have since looked up his ebay feedback and he has 2 other negative comments where they have reported that he sold a car, but fed them a line of crap that it was stolen, and then listed the SAME CAR on ebay a month later again!! (This is since my dealings)
        And he did end the car on ebay once I had bought it, but as the transaction was outside ebay, I have no way of leaving feedback etc.

        • YTW on 25/01/2014 - 20:39
          +2

          I'd still report him to eBay. Unless you want his account kept open to see if your car comes up for sale at some point - I'd be willing to bet it does. I'd be setting up automatic alerts on all selling websites with the specs of your car. Then if you see it up for sale get a friend to ring up and arrange to meet and then head along with the cops/bikies (your choice) to pick up your car.

          There's plenty of little things you can do to make his life uncomfortable in the meantime and give yourself a tiny little sense of satisfaction in knowing he has a headache for at least a day. You could put his mobile/home number/email address up on a hook-up page with a picture of an attractive woman saying you're "Up for anything" - one zinger I recently read in OzBargain.

          You may also want to start doing a little investigation using his details to see what else he's doing. These people always have more than one scam on the go. My mum got ripped off by some guy on Ebay and got pissed off so started looking into him online. Ended up getting him investigated by the federal police.

        • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 17:19

          I like your way of thinking :) I have alerts on Ebay, GT and Car Sales. We have been checking periodically everywhere we can think of. Nothing so far.

  • jayc on 24/01/2014 - 23:44
    +15

    If the vehicle was registered in his name and he was a Bankrupt, and if the vehicle was valued above $7,350 then technically the vehicle should have been the property of the Trustee of his Bankrupt Estate (https://www.afsa.gov.au/resources/indexed-amounts/indexed-am…).

    I'd report him to whoever is Trustee of his Bankrupt Estate for lying about the asset, just to make his life harder. Other than that, option 4 seems the best option. Best of luck.

    • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:23

      Thank you very much, I will follow up on this lead and see where it gets me and I will report back here.
      Cheers!

    • imaximax1 on 25/01/2014 - 12:14
      +1

      Is it possible that it was 7.5k after tax+duty and all that.

      It might have been very conveniently under $7,350.

    • mousie on 27/01/2014 - 00:44

      Only if his equity in the car is over 7350. I.e no other interests

      • wtfnodeal on 27/01/2014 - 08:51
        +1

        But the moment the scum signed the contract with OP and received $7500 doesn't it mean the moment the scum had interest in cash more than $7350 and should be used to repay the trustee of bankrupt estate?
        Doesn't sound right to me if he has $10000 cash and no other higher value assets and the debtors cannot do anything to recover repayments.

        • mousie on 27/01/2014 - 16:58

          That's correct - if he's part of a formalised part IX debt agreement or has become bankrupt - the cash can be seen as a 'windfall' and should be declared to the trustee.

          However, if the seller had a secured loan against the vehicle, and is on a part IX and his value of the equity is less than 7350, then that doesn't mean that the trustee would need to seize the vehicle before he went on a debt agreement.

        • John Dough on 27/01/2014 - 17:32

          Yep I will be reporting it to the Trustee, that's for sure.
          I'd say he broke the terms and conditions that the Trustee imposed.
          They will probably be interested to hear he has incurred yet another Judgement/Debt after all he has been through.
          I'd like them to help me press criminal charges for Obtaining financial gain by deception, and depending on how much the trustee gives a damn will determine if they would be willing to add pressure to do that with the police.

          If its all true and there is nothing aside from these laws that I don't know about, he sold a vehicle that wasn't his to sell (the Trustees), then sold it again once it was mine.

          I will be sure to post back here once I find out more.

    • John Dough on 28/01/2014 - 22:13

      Hey there, do you know how to locate his trustee? I think through veda or the like i can find out, but that costs about $40 is there another way? I think they might be keen to hear what I have found out about thus guy so far.

  • Nutrino on 25/01/2014 - 00:08
    +5

    7500 is alot of burgers… Dam man

  • Ughhh on 25/01/2014 - 00:09
    +6

    I went to the police and told them the story, they said even though its technically my car, I gave it to him and its not stolen, its a civil matter, take him to court.

    You gave him the car to fix, expecting it to be returned. But he's not returning it and doesnt appear he has the intention to, so isn't that stealing? Perhaps you didnt word it properly with the police?

    Sounds like the type of guy that wouldnt care if he had 50 bankruptcy records.

    I vote for eggs.

    • Speckled Jim on 25/01/2014 - 09:38
      +3

      so isn't that stealing?

      Apparently not. But theft by finding supposedly is!
      Go figure.

      • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:33

        Yeah I am pretty annoyed that they can't do anything, I worded it very well to them and didn't go to the level of detail I have in this post. I basically said I paid for the car, gave it to him to fix, now he wont give me the cash or the car, even though I have a receipt to say I have paid in full.

        I have to go to court to have a ruling to say the car is mine, then arrange the sherrif on a possession order to seize the vehicle (at my cost) taking months I am sure, and probably seizing it off another sucker that bought the car off him, then they would have to chase him!!

        I am sure if it were a country town, the local copper would go round and sort this out for me, but not in the city, they are too busy with catching the 'real' crooks :(

        • grasstown on 25/01/2014 - 19:52
          +1

          This is the bit that doesn't sit well with me. Perhaps reask the police as jlove suggested and others have agreed.

          "' I reluctantly parted with the rest of the cash and wrote into the contract that any further works in the RWC would have to be completed by him if any.

          I took the car in and there was a lot of work needed, called him back he said no problem bring it back he will do the work.

          I took the car back and told him to fix it, to which he agreed. "

          How can that be giving it to him? Has to be theft, and a police matter even if it is also a civil matter.

        • YTW on 25/01/2014 - 20:42

          Haven't you watched Judge Judy? She's always resolving cases like this. It is a civil matter, they seem to consider it more of an ownership dispute rather than a scam. Which no doubt is exploited by these kind of scam artists.

        • grasstown on 25/01/2014 - 22:57

          Civil is for damages, compensation etc but criminal is for punishment. Different remedies. This situation involves both. If the police charge him he won't get his goods back, only the guy will cop a fine or depending on his antecedents may go to gaol. Criminal law is good for protecting the community, unlike civil. Theoretically, Op can also start a private criminal prosecution if the police won't, but shouldn't bother. So yes, if op wants his stuff back he has to go civil. If he wants the guy punished he can ask the police to pursue it.

        • wtfnodeal on 26/01/2014 - 00:20

          Just make up a story the scum stole your car with the spare key he kept when he sold it to you. Let the police do the rest.

        • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 09:30

          I actually still have a set of keys, and in my opinion the car is 100% legally mine.
          Problem being
          a) I can't locate it.
          b) the police can't help because he didn't steal it (even though he witholding it)

          Because he wont give it back, I could press theft/fraud charges, but it would cost a LOT more than the debt is worth. You usually only pursue something like that if its a house involved or a large sum.

          I can get a judgement and ruling that the vehicle is mine, then the sherrif can seize.

        • foreveraloan on 28/01/2014 - 16:55

          I think you should pursue this option, and quickly. I would marshal all the evidence you have to prove that you purchased the thing in good faith/checked all the relevant registers etc, and try to get a judgment with a view to having the sheriff seize the vehicle. As you said, chances of getting the cash back are low; chances of getting the car, also low but a darn side more likely.

          Also, in line with the vibe of this thread, I wouldn't take the police's first word on this as being definitive. However, I would suggest that you start making demands for him to return the car to you so that you can establish solidly that he has taken the car (which you own) and has no intention of returning it. Then, maybe the police will back you. For now, I think what they're saying is fair enough (although inconvenient for you) — to them it's just a civil dealing that's gone awry.

    • imaximax1 on 25/01/2014 - 12:15

      No, the police will never following something up if you willingly give over your keys.

      Imaging all the domestic cases they would have to deal with, it sort of makes sense.

      • microsnot on 26/01/2014 - 09:11
        +4

        I'm a little slow.

        • If I hand over my keys to my mechanic then can they keep the car indefinitely?
        • If a car dealer hands me the keys to the Mercedes then can I keep the car?
        • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 09:33

          I gave the car back for him to fix within 7 days. He didn't then claimed the car is inoperable.
          He wants to void the contract and pay me back, with the 'pay me back' being never.

          The problem is that I gave it back to him as per a civil contract, and its a grey area of ownership. The cops wont touch it. If he came round and took it, that's a different story.

          If you took a merc for a spin and don't bring it back, its fairly clear cut theft.

        • wtfnodeal on 26/01/2014 - 09:52
          +3

          The cop got confused thought you gifted it back to him? Dude. You can report it as a lost car now and tell the police the suspect who kept the car away from you is the seller. Are you sure the police and just sit and do nothing on your behalf? If that is the case all the machanics can keep their customers' cars?

        • ozgriff on 28/01/2014 - 23:22

          Can this car not be reported as stolen.

          You provided an asset worth $7,500 to a trustee to have repairs carried out over a seven day period. This asset can no longer be sourced or returned to the original owner. This is a very specific circumstance and I'm sure (not a solicitor) that you have the right to report your car stolen at any time that you believe it is.

          How is this not stolen if you have no idea of the whereabouts? You can report a car stolen, even if a family member has taken it. I'm really not sure how this cannot be viewed that way. You had/have no relationship to this person, and the handover was purely on an economics scale - and that item is now missing.

          Did you have insurance on the car as soon as, or even better, before you took possession?

          If the police say it's not stolen, than have them locate it for you so you can retrieve it.

    • wtfnodeal on 25/01/2014 - 17:51
      +3

      Agree. If the police refuse to help you just tell them you want to report a lost car. See what they have to do about it.

      • easternbluecut on 28/01/2014 - 10:22

        I agree with wtfnodeal the fact you can't locate the car means that you've lost it regardless of how that came to pass

  • Hunter80 on 25/01/2014 - 00:13
    +2

    I am sooo sorry to hear your story mate, esp. to a OzBargainer :-(. Just dont spend too much more on this pathetic moron. Its just money, learn the lesson, move on and be more careful next time around.

    • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:34

      Yep expensive lesson!

  • wukachuka on 25/01/2014 - 00:43
    +6

    Stay on him , keep the pressure up, people can only slink around hiding for so long before it starts to really affect their quality of life.
    You may not get the money back, but at least stay on him till you get the car back so you can recover something…
    Don't let scum like this get away with the cash AND the car…
    Thats a giant payday to a scumbag like you have described, probably more than half a years wages to him… lol..
    I am thinking it probably wouldnt be too hard to get him to take a swing at you with a witness, when you eventually get him cornered :D

    As for the cops not wanting to do anything, go above the ones you talked to previous, place a complaint, whatever it takes. At the very least make them recover the car for you!

    • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:42

      I will follow up and see what my options are. I agree that I don't want this guy to get away with it, hence me opening it up for debate! I have a contact in the police force and they said they can't do anything as much as they would like to - it's a civil matter.

      I'd like to keep pressure applied, but we have for months now and he keeps saying 'no worries I will pay, I just don't have the cash right now' He has had 2 final demands and the latest from a Lawyer that the our family friend debt collector kindly arranged for free as he is sympathetic to my fight.

      Any further lawful action requires me to get the wallet out….

      • kwaker on 25/01/2014 - 13:26
        +5

        And its time you did, stop using your friend. You know your at that point either pursue legal action or let it go.

  • Tech5 on 25/01/2014 - 03:26
    +2

    Shieet, that's a lifetime worth of Oz bargaining gone

  • TheMoDz on 25/01/2014 - 04:48

    Bikies are seemed to be needed alot here in OzBargain,

    Hear that Bandidos and Comanchero

    • StewBalls on 25/01/2014 - 10:18
      +3

      Look guys, contrary to what you may see on TV, bikies are not a charity or fee for service operation…you go getting yourself mixed up with them & you might very well find that you've substituted a small problem for a much larger one!

      • Speckled Jim on 25/01/2014 - 17:59

        This.
        Has nobody here seen The Godfather? It's kinda like that, but hairier.

  • [Deactivated] on 25/01/2014 - 07:42
    +7

    I vote eggs, but instead of eggs, something of a more Molotov persuasion.

  • Euphemistic on 25/01/2014 - 08:33
    +3

    Is say the cash is long gone, best bet is try to get the car back, in what ever condition it is. It's legally yours.

    Lesson learnt: have a rough idea what roadworthy checks are and have a look yourself. It isn't that hard to check for oil leaks, tyre wear, working lights and wipers. Take it for a drive and check that it doesn't feel wrong, no clunky noises etc. one o ft hue pitfalls with private buying is there is no warranty.

    Other lesson learnt: once the money is handed over the transaction is complete regardless of promises.

    • blitz on 25/01/2014 - 09:33
      +4

      Other lesson learnt: once the money is handed over the transaction is complete regardless of promises.

      An excellent bit of advice.

      • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:44

        Other lesson learnt: once the money is handed over the transaction is complete regardless of promises.

        I agree, if only I could go back!! Its a sad day when you need to do a bankruptcy check when making a deal!

        Dealer only for me from here on out, you have so much more right of appeal when something goes wrong, and if you have a judgement in your favor you can go them to get your money they will settle well before it ever gets to court.

  • Marble250 on 25/01/2014 - 09:19
    +2

    Sounds like you are going to be using more money and time, to flog a dead horse. Tie up the legal aspects and move on. Sorry mate there are indeed mongrels like this guy who are more than willing to teach the unsuspecting a life lesson. Good luck!

    • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 11:08
      +3

      This is looking the likely option. Karma will fix him! Won't it?? lol
      Hopefully my story may help others too. Don't get sucked in.

      I would consider myself a sharp individual when it comes to judge of character and money/contracts, and this is the first (and last) time I have been screwed like this! I thought the legal system would help me - HAH!

      1. RWC with paperwork complete or - NO deal
      2. If ANY alarm bells ring - NO deal.
      3. If it sounds too good to be true, it isn't true - NO deal.
  • StewBalls on 25/01/2014 - 09:27
    -2

    Go over to his house when you know he's there, call the cops & tell them he assaulted you…then once they get there (i.e. off their lazy fat asses) tell them you simply wanted your car back & he assaulted you as soon as you asked.

    Somewhat frivolous & vexatious, yes; but necessary given the circumstances.

    • Speckled Jim on 25/01/2014 - 09:44
      +1

      If he goes alone it may backfire.
      Best case, one word against another, maybe get the car.

      Worst case, they'll slap him with making a false statement to Police charge. And what if the car's not there? It's probably at the mates place.

      • StewBalls on 25/01/2014 - 09:57

        Easy fixed, take a friend or family member as a witness.

        • Speckled Jim on 25/01/2014 - 10:01

          Sure, but what if he's got witness(es) too?
          Could get ugly.

        • StewBalls on 25/01/2014 - 10:03
          -1

          Well, in that case you use your head & work with what you have…just stick with your plausible story & you'll be fine…kinda depends if the OP wants his car back, doesn't it? Just remember, assault does not have to be physical!

          Most people do not want to run the risk of being charged with an indictable offence, so it is entirely likely that if you stick to your story old mate will front up with the car pronto to avoid you pursuing the matter.

          I know this is manipulation of the legal system; but I see it done almost on a weekly basis (by men & women) in my line of work; and I can assure you that done properly it works very well.

        • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:54

          Interesting path. This guy has screwed over 7 other parties/people in the last 3 years (these are only the ones that went to court!) and is still screwing over people right now. Either he is just a dumbass and/or well connected and just doesn't give 2 craps about anyone threatening him. I'm not sure which. I know he is a hot head though, I have had some pretty good arguments over the phone, but alas I can't find him to confront face to face which makes me think he has moved house.

          I have checked very thoroughly and the car is not at the known addresses, and I really am busy with the good things in life to keep going round and checking every weekend if the car is there. Id say it was sold months ago.

        • Speckled Jim on 25/01/2014 - 18:06
          -1

          Damn Stew, you re-edited that a bit.

          As OP stated, this guy is a serial offender. He may be armed to the hilt. If I were to go, I'd go heavy.

  • ltjet on 25/01/2014 - 09:32

    Sorry to hear that it sucks losing any amount of money especially large amounts like this.

    Unfortunately you will probably never see the cash or car again. I've heard of people selling cars in front od houses they don't own before which could be a myth. Also the police are right you willingly gave up the car so even if he isn't giving it back he is doing the wrong thing but he hasn't stolen it from you.

    It's like lending something to a mate and not getting it back or getting it back later on in much worse condition than it left. Annoying but not something that you go to the police for help with.

    Leave a deposit. Once the car has a the rwc and you can drive the car away pay the rest no matter how nice or legitimate the person seems. At least that way you only lose a minimal amount if it goes pear shaped. Also when a car is cheaper than most of the same type of car there is generally something wrong with it.

    No matter which way you go even court you will be paying the court bills on top of loosing 7k so you need to add that up and possibly just cut your losses.

    It's a hard thing to do but ive had to do it with $2k for an engine I never received… I learned the hard way as well.

    • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:58

      Thanks for the advice, I see you have also swallowed the bitter pill. I think this guy thinks I will just eventually go away. And to now find out he is bankrupt makes me more inclined to just drop it.

      What gets me is that for 4 months I was in contact almost daily hassling him and making payment arrangements that just kept falling through, was such a waste of time I wish the prick just manned up and said to me that he is broke and doesn't intend to pay me a cent, the cars sold - sue me.

      I would have been mad, but I would have got over it and moved on instead of having the anxiety the whole time wondering if he will pay 'this time'. So annoyed about that fact.

  • kangeroo2 on 25/01/2014 - 10:37
    +10

    Just a suggestion, why not contact ACA or Today Tonight? If they take up on the story and front him with your side of the tale it may help.

    Scumbags don't want their mug splashed on national TV.

    • John Dough on 25/01/2014 - 10:56
      +3

      wow, I have nothing to lose by exploring the option, thanks for the advice. People really do need to know not to deal with this scumbag in any way, shape or form.

      • Mikinoz on 25/01/2014 - 20:05
        +2

        Definitely take one of those options, you can have them take up the fight for you. Great alternative to Bikies and maybe same/better result.

        As a viewer that's a story I would watch.

      • bargainhunter6969 on 29/01/2014 - 15:18

        Definitely follow up this option if you haven't already. I assume you have all the persons details?

        Auction it between the two shows and see what they will pay for the story.
        Then make a decision. Should this not pan out, then there are a few other things you can do.

        YOU ARE LIVING IN THE AGE OF THE INTERNET… Use it to your advantage. Create a facebook page and topic and share it everywhere.. Include the name and all details of the person and what has occurred. In no time it will have spread everywhere.
        Before doing this I would call the person just once, and say that if he doesn't pay up within the next 3 days, you will make his life hell.. No more details though.. Leave it vaugue.. Don't say too much.

        Since your posting on a chat board on here, I assume you best stay away from any bikies and stuff.

        I also find it funny how people are calling the vehicle stolen.. The name the vehicle is in is his as the RWC was never completed and lodged.. Simple stuff. Some people are very slow.

        Good luck with it all. Such a crap situation. But don't give up on it.
        Any help needed, just message me, and we can work something out.

    • natman on 26/01/2014 - 00:11
      +6

      Most entertaining on ACA/Today Tonight when the reporter and cameraman are running after a bad guy down the street.

    • Weezle on 27/01/2014 - 20:38

      If there's anything that ACA or Today Tonight are good at, it's this.

      Worth a try.

  • KingstonTheNotSoWise on 25/01/2014 - 11:02
    +2

    I would never buy a 2nd hand car without the RWC already done. I would suggest either option 1 or 2 to get your money back. Option 3 if you have money to burn.

    • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 08:37

      Yep never thought I would get suckered into that, buyer beware!

  • freakitude on 25/01/2014 - 15:05
    +2

    i feel for you op, getting stung like this is the worst kind of feeling.

    one more piece of advice for buyers of 2nd hand cars.

    before paying up. make sure car is not write off, stolen or got any money owing by using personal property securities register.

    You can be a victim of all kinds of fraud like being sold a hail damage write off car which could be registered and with roadworthy ceritificate but cant be transferred without VIV inspection.

    • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 08:38

      Yep did all the usual checks and that is very good advice for any potential buyer.

  • srhardy on 25/01/2014 - 15:10
    +1

    your TOTALY screwed. Maybe take possession of the car and see if it can be sold but im guessing whoever has it will want more than its worth to get back

    i cant recommend you confront him one night and bash his brain out with something heavy but if you need an alibi ill tell anyone that asked you was posting here on OZB!

    Is it in your name?
    So who has the car now?
    Is it fixed? whats owed?
    If yes, can you take possession???

    If youve handed over the cash but got no car then your screwed, judgment or not… You will NEVER see a dime again so build a bridge and get over it

    • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 08:46

      Ha ha, great response! As angry as I am, there will be no action like this I'm afraid, it will just lead to HIM being the victim and no way I could deal with that!

      The car is in his name for rego purposes, but my paperwork says its my car as its a receipt for the car.
      So you can have a person own the title of the car, and it can be registered in another persons name.
      Having a car registered in your name does not mean you own it.

      He will not disclose the fate of the vehicle, its not at either known property that I can see.
      He said late last year it is 'blown up' and he can't in good concience give me a blown up car.
      I know its bs and I have pushed the issue till I was blue in the face and he keeps telling me that he will just give me my money back, and then doesn't.

      I can go to court and file a judgement of either the debt or the vehicle, and it would be up to the magistrate to decide which I was entitled to. If I went the car option they may rule that its mine (likely) and ask him under oath what happened to it. If it was sold on, I could then have the sherrif (at my cost) find the car and have it towed to me.

      I have researched as many angles as I can, that's why I posted here to see if anyone came up with an idea I had not yet thought of and they have!! I am checking into things and will report back here if any outcomes happen.

      Most likely is that I'm screwed lol but can't hurt to ask :)

      • ozgriff on 28/01/2014 - 23:31

        Get the car first… in any way shape or form. After that you can start civil action.

        Keep any advertisements, details, condition reports, RWC of the car.

        Submit any difference from its new condition to the previously bought condition, to the court/hearing. He most likely will have to pay the differences, or if you're realy lucky may default the sale altogether. After that, it's a legally bound order and will land him in more hot water if he refuses to comply.

        Crappy situation for you but you may be able to salvage something from it.

  • nikey2k27 on 25/01/2014 - 15:46
    +1

    Go see bikes they get your cash back for small fee. or brake he leg for u. I personal would not let it go 7,500 is lots of money. Scum like this will always be scum.

  • mini_wombat on 25/01/2014 - 16:48

    Sad that the police can't help you here … somethings wrong in this country … for me that is a clear criminal act.

    Crazy idea: Why not make it public … :-) Post his name, the story … all on a internet .com website. This might be on google forever when he ever wants to find a job and warns others from him. Illegal … not sure … it's just publishing facts …

    • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 08:51

      Yes I thought they might help, but I see their side, he would just go back to another police station and re-report it stolen after I got them to get it for me. These things where there is any grey area must go through the courts before they can get any action done. Buyer beware!

      I am adding your idea to my list of further actions, I will be sure to post here if I go ahead with anything, thanks.

  • redraoh on 25/01/2014 - 17:19

    I wouldn't let that sort of money go either and I wouldn't wait for the courts or police if they could't help immediately. Doesn't sound like he respects the law anyway. He'll probably serve time before paying you anything.

    • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 08:52

      He has screwed over many, one day he will screw the wrong person….

      • [Deactivated] on 30/01/2014 - 17:16
        -2

        Dude, you need to quit this mentality. You ARE the wrong person. That's why you're here seeking retribution!

        • wtfnodeal on 30/01/2014 - 18:41

          I think what OP meant "wrong person" was referring to those would take uncivilised actions.

        • [Deactivated] on 31/01/2014 - 03:40

          I'm sorry, but taking uncivilised action against an out-and-out criminal who has robbed you of a significant amount of money is just.

          Honestly, I'm sure you could pen this in with the male/human survival instinct, but I guess it's been diluted down over the years. Stop being walked over/a laughing stock

        • John Dough on 31/01/2014 - 08:04
          +3

          Hey Invidicus, thanks for your support! When faced with a situation like this, of course all sorts of things come into your mind, but there is one thing that would happen if action like this is taken. He would become the victim in all this, and I would end up with a criminal record for serving my own justice.

          I'm angry right now, but imagine how angry I would be if I had charges pressed against me, potentially losing my job and criminal conviction not allowing me to visit the USA (which I love to do)

          I hear you, but there is no way this guy is becoming the victim - NO WAY.

        • blitz on 31/01/2014 - 11:45

          I hear you, but there is no way this guy is becoming the victim - NO WAY.

          Bravo, well said.

  • nuno on 25/01/2014 - 18:09

    You lost me at " took the car in and there was a lot of work needed, called him back he said no problem bring it back he will do the work.?"

    Took it where? At that point you should have asked - by law - the name and place of the rwc shop and get them involved. What should have happened is to handover the car to the RWC authorised mechanic and get them to repair items as they provided a shonky rw cert.

    You would have had your car back and fixed by now. Take him to the small claims court but I doubt you will receive much compensation if any at all.

    • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 09:02

      ok just to clarify;

      I had told him to get the RWC done before would pay. He went and had the first inspection completed and then claimed he fixed everything and listed them to me and said 100% everything had been fixed.

      I went round to see for myself and he was VERY convincing about that, he said all I had to do was take it in for the second inspection and it would pass 100% He KNOWINGLY had not fixed all the items, he just was so desperate for the cash that he lied to my face.

      He claimed that the deal couldn't go ahead unless I took the car as his work would not allow him time off. It put the pressure on me to decide either take it or leave it. I decided to trust him (my first mistake) and write into our contract that all repairs would be done by him (if any) within 7 days. I tried to keep a security amount of 1 or 2 K witheld but he just kept saying 'I have buyers lining up' here look at my phone im getting calls all day about the car.

      When I took the day off work and took the car in, they cursed and swore 'The F*^% Idiot hasn't done anything!!' I enquired and they showed me the carbon copy of the first inspection and he had only fixed about 3 out of 10 items they told him to fix.

      I called and confronted him, he then rang the mechanic, he seemed to think they would help him out and do a dodgy RWC and they didn't. He assured me 'No problem, bring the car back, I will fix it all up mate'
      So I bought the car back to him (my second mistake) to fix and havent seen it since (as per my original post)

      So there is the detail, I should have stayed very wary and forced an amount to be witheld that I could use for repairs - or walked away. Once again hindsight… its a wonderful thing!!

  • tyler.durden on 25/01/2014 - 18:20
    +1

    What car/year/model?

    How much was it worth?
    And how much you pay?

    • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 09:05

      I feel that I can't go that level of detail at the minute, sorry. its a 4X4.
      I paid $7500, but the value of the car itself would be about 3.5K
      Its the accessories and enhancements on the vehicle were worth more than 4.5K

      • microsnot on 26/01/2014 - 09:38

        OP, I really feel for you. It sucks that people like this exist and they are so well protected by our laws. Why can't they use their powers for good?

        I'm guessing even if you got the 4x4 back it would be without the $4.5k worth of upgrades.

        As the owner of the car, is there a way you can get it written off as a self-insurer. At least he won't be able to sell or register it again.

        • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 09:47
          +1

          Thanks for the idea, I have added to my list of options I will investigate.
          Yes I can't believe I got stung like this, always been so careful in the past.
          I posted for 2 reasons, first to get ideas like this, thank you, and secondly to let people know that this can happen to anyone, but you as the buyer, have the power to not hand over cash if something isn't right. I thought 'Whats the worst that could happen' well I'm pretty sure this is one of the worst outcomes one could have….
          Cheers.

  • t_c on 25/01/2014 - 18:53
    +4

    Can you register as having a interest in the vehicle on ppsr so it can't be on sold?

    • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 09:05

      I'll add that to my list of follow ups, thanks!

    • wtfnodeal on 26/01/2014 - 09:46
      +1

      The scum might not even be the legal owner of the car. Just borrowed someone's car and showed it to OP. Has OP checked who the owner is at the transport and licensing centre? Or if OP has the legal document to show he is the new owner then just report it as a lost car so the car can never be on sold to anyone else.

      • John Dough on 26/01/2014 - 09:50
        +1

        I will add to my list, yes I have paperwork to show I paid for the vehicle. I checked the securities register, its not stolen and is not under finance, and he is the registered owner (usually the registered owner is the title owner, but not necessarily and in this case I believe I am the lawful owner no matter what the registration is under)

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