Upgrade Your Energizer Alkaline Batteries Purchase to Lithium for Free @ DSE (in-Store Only)

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[Deactivated] on 01/08/2013 - 20:19 files.ozbargain.com.au (578 clicks)

Upgrade Your Energizer Alkaline Batteries Purchase to Lithium for Free @ DSE starts tomorrow and in Store Only.

Direct link for Alkaline Batteries
http://www.dicksmith.com.au/batteries/energizer-max-aa-alkal…

Direct link for Energizer E2 Lithium
http://www.dicksmith.com.au/batteries/energizer-aa-lithium-b…

Energizer E2 Lithium AA x 4 batteries for $10.98 (Alkaline price) is a bargain.

OW is selling this for $19.99 (price match is possible for further saving)
http://www.officeworks.com.au/retail/products/Technology/Pow…

Lightweight, Energizer E2 Lithium AA x 4 batteries take up to 600 photos, compared to just 80 photos with standard alkaline batteries. Designed for the high power demands of photographic equipment and other technology devices.

Related Stores

Dick Smith / Kogan

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• 

  Lenneth on 01/08/2013 - 21:00

  I dont get it. So what do you have to do to get this offer?

  • 

    eug on 01/08/2013 - 21:02

    Easy:

    1) Pay for alkaline AAs
    2) Receive lithium AAs

    • 

      Lenneth on 01/08/2013 - 21:07

      This is a really weird offer… so once all the alkalines have moved from the shelf to under the counter after people have swapped them, the deal would be over even if there are lithiums still hanging on the shelf.

      • 

        eug on 01/08/2013 - 21:13

        I'm sure they'll put the alkalines back on the shelf. Deals like this are almost certainly done with Energizer themselves who will foot the bill, so DSE might as well sell everything. No idea if they have a limit.

• 

  Saiya on 01/08/2013 - 21:37

  Interesting to see if Officeworks will price match this.

  • 

    eug on 01/08/2013 - 21:41

    Pretty sure they won't. The lithium batteries aren't going down in price so there's nothing for them to match. They match prices, not special deals.

  • 

    krisspy on 02/08/2013 - 11:55

    You expect them to give you the nipple as the 5% extra?

• 

  [Deactivated] on 01/08/2013 - 22:07

  +1

  Any ideas how they manage to get lithium to 1.5v when normal lithiums are around 3V?

  • 

    morpheu on 01/08/2013 - 22:19

    different lithium chemistry, which can be higher than 1.5v, up to 1.7/1.8v open circuit

  • 

    retiredfeline on 01/08/2013 - 22:35

    +2

    You can see the bewildering variety of chemistries here:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_battery#Chemistries

  • 

    iseenya on 01/08/2013 - 23:48

    Penlight-type (AA/AAA) lithium batteries use an iron disulphide cathode. From an Energizer technical bulletin:
    The term “lithium battery” refers to many different chemistries utilizing lithium as the anode but differing in
    cathode material, electrolyte, and construction. They may be classified in several ways, but one convenient
    method is by the cathode material and voltage. Using an iron disulfide cathode gives a battery with a nominal
    voltage of 1.5 volts. Most other lithium batteries are 3.0 volt systems using cathodes comprising either solids
    (manganese dioxide or carbon monofluoride) or highly toxic liquids (sulfur dioxide or thionyl chloride).

• 

  TightBum on 01/08/2013 - 23:56

  Anyone know if we can swap unopened already purchased ones?

• 

  tdw on 02/08/2013 - 00:07

  why don't they just mark down the price of the lithiums to alkaline prices?

  • 

    AreYouAWiiizard on 02/08/2013 - 05:57

    I'm not sure if this is Energizer's fault or the super-market, but they were selling a pack of 2 AAA for $4.19, pack of 4 for $9.50 and a pack of 6 (4+2 free) for $4.50. Not sure about that maths but it makes me feel good for some reason…
    EDIT: same type as well.

    • 

      tdw on 02/08/2013 - 12:15

      lol someone must have been asleep at the wheel

      i've seen that at coles a few times. one 10 pack was opened and had a 2 batteries missing and was marked down. but the same brand/type unopened 10 pack was on special that week and was cheaper than the one with missing batteries.

• 

  cheepwun on 02/08/2013 - 11:00

  Energizer E2 Lithium AA x 4 batteries for $10.98 (Alkaline price) is a bargain.

  Which devices would be requiring disposables in this day-and-age?

  USD 12.54 http://www.amazon.com/eneloop-2000mAh-Pre-Charged-Rechargeab…
  Rechargeable. Comes pre-charged. Doesn't lose charge if left unused for a long time, as long as they are kept relatively cool. Should replace disposables in just about every application. Add them to your next Amazon order?

  Want to charge them and don't have a charger?
  USD 18.35 http://www.amazon.com/eneloop-2000mAh-Pre-Charged-Rechargeab…
  The same 4xAA batteries along with a simple charger. Buy a 50 cent US-to-AU travel adaptor from ebay since the charger is world-voltage capable. Batteries come pre-charged. Charge the batteries hundreds of times after they get flat. Add them to your next Amazon order?

  Add a few dollars when converting to Australian dollars. How is buying disposables saving anyone money? Where has the common sense gone? Why are people still buying disposables? What is the attraction of single-use batteries?

  • 

    Mapheox on 02/08/2013 - 11:39

    I don't know about other people but I have 20 Energizer 2300mah rechargeables but still have a spare 8 Lithium ones laying around simply because I forget where those rechargeable batteries are. On the rare occasion I will go to my Keyboard and realize it is out of power. I'm not going to wait 8 hours for a charge so I throw in the Lithiums. Or when I travel and a disposable backup is always good.

  • 

    eug on 02/08/2013 - 12:06

    +1

    There are many situations where lithiums are more suitable than nimh.

    e.g.
    - the emergency torch in your car
    - smoke alarms
    - flashes (slower cycle times but a lot more flashes)
    - handheld GPSes in cold climates or hiking - they're lighter and last longer
    - any device used in very cold places
    - on holiday - carrying a good charger adds weight and cable mess
    - TV remote controls
    - clocks - they'll probably last 10 years there

    etc

    Remember, just because you can't find a use for them, doesn't mean nobody has a use for them. There are many people in this world who aren't exactly like you.

    • 

      tdw on 02/08/2013 - 12:18

      +1

      There are many situations where lithiums are more suitable than nimh. e.g. the emergency torch in your car

      i've had a pair of energizer lithiums sitting in my maglite torch for the past 13 years until i took them out recently. light wasn't as bright but still very decent performance considering they've just been sitting there, hardly used.

    • 

      cheepwun on 02/08/2013 - 13:09

      Remember, just because you can't find a use for them, doesn't mean nobody has a use for them. > There are many people in this world who aren't exactly like you.

      • all flash unit makers specify faster recycles with Ni-MH than alkaline, last I checked. Edit: here's a run-down of how some tested. Eneloops take both first and second place in this flash test I just googled. http://www.slrlounge.com/the-best-aa-battery-for-flash-the-u… It looks like the energizer lithiums kicked in their protection circuit rather than provide suitable current. Plus for high-current draw applications, who is going to be paying for single-use batteries, assuming you even get faster flash recycle times? (it appears you don't even get that for the high cost). Nobody I know uses lithiums in their flash unit. Not to say that others don't have 'different' needs but what are the real reasons to justify super-expensive lithium (or alkaline) single-use batteries here?
      • Garmin's hand-held GPS etrex 30 manual recommends Ni-MH and Lithium batteries. For below-freezing temperatures they make a point about Alkalines risking rupturing at high temperatures and then make a point of alkalines losing much of their battery capacity at below freezing temperatures. I guess that's a score for Lithium and Ni-MH. Garmin claims "up to" 25 hours battery life but doesn't go into details about which battery provides more usasble battery life. If you are going to be out bush you are going to bring spares anyway. Hardly an issue? Weight: you save some by going lithium. At great cost (almost the cost of rechargeables that can be recharged hundreds of times!).
      • Eneloops can be used in the cold. See http://www.eneloop.info for more info. Of course extremes are extremes and there are limits.
      • emergency torches can take eneloops fine; at around $2.50 per AA battery, how much are you saving by going disposable? Especially lithium? Seriously. It's only a matter of time before you recoup the cost, even if you never use the torch. Granted, after 3 years or so, the eneloop in there may need to be charged to give it some juice (assuming you want a topped-up battery). Granted, a highly expensive lithium battery may last longer sitting there doing nothing, or hold more charge doing it. But for the nearly the cost of a rechargeable that can be recharged hundres of times and doesn't suffer like the old rechargeables did, I find that a false economy, again.
      • Carrying a charger on holiday is handled with a compact charger; hardly an issue for most I would think? Nearly all cameras need one of their own anyway. How much would multiple sets of disposables tie you up? You'd either have to make trips to the shop as you needed them or simply carry additional batteries anyway, as the others go flat on you. Very similar situation and no option to recharge, so only an option to go to the shops to buy more (again) if you didn't want to carry multiple sets of batteries.
      • TV remotes and low-drain devices are ideal for eneloop. It just takes longer to recoup the cost. But hardly a large expense at around $2.50 per AA battery and less for AAA, and far less chance of a leaky alkaline (for example).
      • look again at the prices of the Lithiums above. They are really close to eneloop territory. For single-use batteries that's a false economy, big-time.
      • smoke alarms can benefit from a long-shelf-life 9V battery, for example. No doubt. Even though you can get a 9V Ni-MH battery from China for about $2 delivered and a charger for not much more. For some reason, a quality 9V still costs a lot of dollars. Like $4 or something. Probably due to less demand. Your strongest argument for disposables is made here.
      • Lithiums are lighter. Granted. For gram-sensitive applications, they could have advantages. I don't see many others, to be honest. Alkalines are prone to leakage and poor performance. Lithiums are highly expensive for what you get (a single-use battery).
      • 

        eug on 02/08/2013 - 13:47

        +1

        •Eneloops can be used in the cold. See http://www.eneloop.info for more info. Of course extremes are extremes and there are limits.

        And as I said, just because those limits don't concern your usage, doesn't mean it's pointless to everyone. The official eneloop spec sheet states the minimum in-spec discharge temp is 0 degrees C. For lithium primaries it's -60 degrees. That might not concern you, but there are other people in this world too.

        •Lithiums are lighter. Granted. For gram-sensitive applications, they could have advantages.

        There you go - a reason for buying them.

        •emergency torches can take eneloops fine; at around $2.50 per AA battery, how much are you saving by going disposable? Especially lithium? Seriously. It's only a matter of time before you recoup the cost, even if you never use the torch.

        Once again, you're assuming everybody in the world thinks exactly like you. To many people it's not about money - it's about hassle. Both lithium and nimh batteries cost the same.

        Tell me, which is more attractive for this emergency torch application:

        Option A - buy lithiums and leave them in all your emergency torches for 12 years.

        or

        Option B - buy NiMH for the same price, but every year you have to take them out of each torch, recharge them, and put them back.

        Remember, both options cost the same.

        •Carrying a charger on holiday is handled with a compact charger; hardly an issue for most I would think?

        So now people have to spend even more money to buy a good travel charger that's dV/dt and not just timer-based?

        •TV remotes and low-drain devices are ideal for eneloop. It just takes longer to recoup the cost.

        Once again, you're only thinking of your own situation. There are people (like me for example) who only have to replace their remote control batteries once every 2 years as they don't watch TV much. Why would I want to spend $5 on two NiMH cells when I can spend 60c on two alkalines? It'll take me 16 years to recoup the cost. By then the NiMH cells would probably have degraded as well.

        But hardly a large expense at around $2.50 per AA battery and less for AAA, and far less chance of a leaky alkaline (for example).

        I've had as many leaky alkalines recently as I've had leaky NiMH batteries in cordless phones. The leaking NiMh juice dissolves the sponge in the battery compartment leading to a very messy, gooey mess. Yuck. In fact just a month and a half ago I had to replace the leaky NiMH AAAs in four Panasonic cordless phones.

        •look again at the prices of the Lithiums above. They are really close to eneloop territory. For single-use batteries that's a false economy, big-time.

        Look again at the price and hassle of disposable alkalines vs eneloops - in situations other than your own. Sixteen years to recoup a $5 cost is hardly worth the effort of charging.

        If you're a heavy remote user and have to replace alkalines every few months, NiMH is definitely the way to go. But not everyone is like that.

        If I used lithiums in my remotes, they'll probably last 8 years.

        •smoke alarms can benefit from a long-shelf-life 9V battery, for example.

        There you go, yet another reason why people buy disposables.

        Even though you can get a 9V Ni-MH battery from China for about $2 delivered and a charger for not much more

        Mmmm. Using cheap china nimh batteries in your smoke alarm probably isn't the best idea. What if a fire is detected and the alarm tries to go off, but the battery can't handle the sudden surge in current? You wouldn't have a low battery warning beep due to the flat discharge curve, and you won't have a sounding alarm either.

        If you are going to be out bush you are going to bring spares anyway. Hardly an issue? Weight: you save some by going lithium. At great cost (almost the cost of rechargeables that can be recharged hundreds of times!).

        Not everyone counts their pennies to that extent. Convenience is worth a bit of money to some people.

        I personally use plenty of NiMH AAs, but only in certain devices like flashes, audio and video recorders, torches, and that sort of stuff. There are still plenty of applications where alkalines or primary lithiums still make sense. Surely you're able to see past your own personal uses and realize that?

      • 

        tdw on 02/08/2013 - 14:02

        the whole point of an emergency torch is that it's ready to use when you need it. not so much for convenience but safety.

        i used to bring a battery charger on trips but now i find most of the devices i take, instead of running AA or AAAs, have built-in or removable lithium batteries. (for better or worse, that's a whole other discussion.) most can be charged by USB on my netbook, thus eliminating the need for a several clunky chargers. most places i go to on holiday aren't third world so i can easily buy disposables if/when my wireless mouse conks out and it'd be cheaper than buying them here anyway.

      • 

        cheepwun on 02/08/2013 - 14:18

        Tell me, which is more attractive for this emergency torch application: Option A - buy lithiums and leave them in all your emergency torches for 12 years. or Option B - buy NiMH for the same price, but every year you have to take them out of each torch, recharge them, and put them back.

        You don't have to recharge the Ni-MH one every year at all. Who told you you'd need to? Unless you store them in high temperatures, you don't need to do anything at all. They won't self-discharge like older Ni-MH after a mere 1 year. Go read about them again.

        And as I said, just because those limits don't concern your usage, doesn't mean it's pointless to everyone.

        Where did I say it's pointless to everyone? I'm trying to suss out why people still buy them. I still use those buttons cells in devices that need them. I try to avoid them wherever possible but I still use disaposables in some devices. All common batteries I've moved to rechargeables for, though. Not saying everyone should. Not claiming everyone is like me, or even thinking that. What IS THE REASON they continue buying disposables when rechargeables are so cheap?

        There you go - a reason for buying them.

        Yes, lithiums are lighter. I'd like to ask you how much of an incentive that is to pay almost rechargeable prices for a single-use battery that is a few grams lighter? Realistically.

        So now people have to spend even more money to buy a good travel charger that's dV/dt and not just timer-based?

        The eneloop charger will charge your batteries fine, as many can attest buying this charger or using the one in the eneloop power packs. If you want, you can also buy their USB charger for under $20 that is designed well. You can read up on that one too. Again, you can spend more if you want to. You don't have to. Your point is meaningless in the context of single-use batteries that don't even get a second chance at life. You don't need to spend more than what I stated. You MAY, but you don't have to to recoup your costs.

        Look again at the price and hassle of disposable alkalines vs eneloops - in situations other than your own. Sixteen years to recoup a $5 cost is hardly worth the effort of charging.

        There is no way for me to verify those figures. What do you base them on? What I can verify is that there is a constant demand for more disposables on OzBargain, and somehow I doubt they are all being used in low-drain applications, otherwise there would be a low demand for them, and less and less people looking for them and buying them. I doubt these are all remote replenishments.

        If you're a heavy remote user and have to replace alkalines every few months, NiMH is definitely the way to go. But not everyone is like that.

        I don't know any remote that needs this level of replacement, nor do I make any claims for it. As I said above, recouping the cost in devices like remotes will take longer, but you will recoup the cost. And it's more than made up for the savings you make in high-current drain applications. So what you're saying is people are still throwing away batteries in landfill to save - typically - a few bucks over the short term, not longer-term…in low-drain applications?

        If I used lithiums in my remotes, they'll probably last 8 years.

        Great. And you'd pay almost as much as a rechargeable for those claimed 8 years of use. Then have to dispose of them in landfill and buy again. I think they would go far sooner, by the way. But no way for me to verify this.

        Mmmm. Using cheap china nimh batteries in your smoke alarm probably isn't the best idea. What if a fire is detected and the alarm tries to go off, but the battery can't handle the sudden surge in current?

        I have no idea what "sudden surge in current" you are talking about. But maybe you know smoke alarms better than I do. I don't know about you, but my smoke alarm lets me know if the battery is low.

        There are still plenty of applications where alkalines or primary lithiums still make sense. Surely you're able to see past your own personal uses and realize that?

        I'm a big battery user. Your strongest point was smoke alarms with 9V batteries. I'll tell you what I think is happening here. People associate Ni-MH with older batteries they once used which went flat on them in storage.

        They are unaware of:
        * the non-ripoff prices they can get rechargeables and chargers for
        * that Ni-MH technology has improved (low-self discharge batteries that don't go flat easily sitting unused)
        * that they can work in extremes of temperatures
        * that there is far less risk of battery leakage
        * that the cost of recharging a set of batteries is very low

        That is why they continue buying disposable AA and AAAs. Thinking that somehow they are 'saving' when in fact they aren't.

      • 

        eug on 02/08/2013 - 16:41

        +1

        You don't have to recharge the Ni-MH one every year at all. Who told you you'd need to?

        LSD stands for low self-discharge, not zero self-discharge.
        That's not the point anyway. The point is, you have to recharge them as they self-discharge quicker than lithium primaries. Once a year, once every two years, once every three years… it's something you have to do. You might not mind it and that's fine, but others wouldn't mind the free convenience of buying batteries once a decade.

        Where did I say it's pointless to everyone?

        You might want to re-read your first post. You were basically putting down people who buy disposables, implying they do not have common sense:

        Which devices would be requiring disposables in this day-and-age?
        Where has the common sense gone?
        Why are people still buying disposables? What is the attraction of single-use batteries?

        Read the tone of your post again. If you weren't so dismissive of other people's requirements, this thread wouldn't even reach this stage.

        Yes, lithiums are lighter. I'd like to ask you how much of an incentive that is to pay almost rechargeable prices for a single-use battery that is a few grams lighter? Realistically.

        33% lighter according to energizer. And you're forgetting the weight of the charger you have to carry as well. You might not load your luggage to the limit on your return trip, but plenty of people definitely do.

        You also keep ignoring my point that people are willing to pay for convenience - life isn't all about money.

        Single-use batteries are definitely more convenient than rechargeables as once they're used you dispose of them and don't have to carry them around with you. You also don't have to worry about making sure you keep the group of cells together (for cell-matching), recharge them together, then store them together in a cool place (e.g. not your car boot).

        There is no way for me to verify those figures. What do you base them on?

        I write down the date I change batteries on the battery itself. My indoor/outdoor thermometer just started giving a battery low sign a few months ago. I installed those two AA alkalines in 2006 - that's seven years without having to bother about recharging.

        How many years would it take to recoup the cost of a $5 set of eneloops ($10 when not on dse special)?

        How sure are you that the eneloops I buy today will have the same capacity and discharge performance in the year 2020?

        What I can verify is that there is a constant demand for more disposables on OzBargain,

        Yup that's true.

        and somehow I doubt they are all being used in low-drain applications

        You might be totally correct, but you can't verify that - you're just assuming everyone has the same usage scenarios as you.

        As I said above, recouping the cost in devices like remotes will take longer, but you will recoup the cost.

        Why do you shop at a supermarket? Why don't you grow your own vegetables and rear your own chickens and cows? It'll take a while to recoup your costs, but you will recoup the cost.

        Or do you find it more .. convenient… to shop at a supermarket?

        The cost of batteries are on a much smaller scale, but scale is relative.

        I have no idea what "sudden surge in current" you are talking about. But maybe you know smoke alarms better than I do. I don't know about you, but my smoke alarm lets me know if the battery is low.

        Rechargable batteries have a flatter discharge curve. The voltage stays relatively stable then drops off quickly. Alkalines have a more linear discharge curve - the voltage drops gradually. A gradual drop is much easier to detect as the device just has to monitor voltage - when the battery hits e.g. 7V, it can start beeping.

        A battery with a flat discharge curve can show 8V at the very low load that smoke alarms require in standby - close to open-circuit voltage. The loud piezo sounder uses far more current than the alarm does in standby. The sudden surge in current can drop the battery's terminal voltage low enough that the siren either doesn't go off (possible with a poor quality or faulty battery - we are talking about cheapo generic china 9Vnimh batteries here), or it rings softly.

        At the end of the day, the whole point is that life isn't all about money. Many people would gladly pay a bit more for convenience.

      • 

        cheepwun on 08/08/2013 - 07:42

        LSD stands for low self-discharge, not zero self-discharge.

        Where did I claim that it stands for zero self-discharge? Sanyo claim 70% charge capacity after 5 years, with their latest eneloops. You said they need charging every year. Your arguments for disposables (which still lose some of their charge under the same conditions) are merely running in academic territory now. This emergency torch scenario is purely academic. Let's be real.

        You might want to re-read your first post. You were basically putting down people who buy disposables, implying they do not have common sense

        I am asking why it's done. You've done nothing to convince me of their merits. I think common sense is lost, yes. I think it's a false economy too. I have yet to be convinced it isn't a false economy. I think it's gob-smackingly stupid to be buying disposable AA and AAAs in 2013. Forgive my arrogance.

        Read the tone of your post again. If you weren't so dismissive of other people's requirements, this thread wouldn't even reach this stage.

        As far as I can tell, those requirements are "yo, I'm saving bucks" - when you aren't. This is by far the number 1 reason I think people buy them. That, plus an ignorance of the advantages of batteries like eneloop (and others with low-self-discharge).

        33% lighter according to energizer. And you're forgetting the weight of the charger you have to carry as well. You might not load your luggage to the limit on your return trip, but plenty of people definitely do.

        http://www.energizer.com/batteries/performance-lithium/ultim…
        Energizer claim they weigh 1/3 less than standard alkalines. How does that compare to Ni-MH? So, again, a few grams per battery! Each battery only weighs a few grams. You can't be serious.

        Airport. You are seriously talking return trip now? And the charger & batteries tipping you over the scales? OK then, continue buying disposables.

        You also keep ignoring my point that people are willing to pay for convenience - life isn't all about money.

        Convenience. A battery in the same size & shape of a regular battery. Lithiums weighing a few grams less per battery. Not having to carry a charger or return rechargeble batteries at the airport. All the while ignoring the fact that if the batteries run flat when I need them, I need to bring multi-packs with me anyway instead of charging conveniently at night. Or make shop trips if I choose not to carry spares with me.

        You might be totally correct, but you can't verify that - you're just assuming everyone has the same usage scenarios as you.

        Again, I'm not assuming anything; I'm just making educated guesses. I use rechargeables in low-drain and high-drain devices. I somehow doubt huge demand in low-drain devices; ignorance on the benefits of rechargeables (both economic and technological) is far more likely.

        Why do you shop at a supermarket? Why don't you grow your own vegetables and rear your own chickens and cows? It'll take a while to recoup your costs, but you will recoup the cost.

        Oh I do. And not only that, it tastes fantastic. And it's more convenient. Much like rechargeables are. I don't have to go to the shop again to buy more silly disposables thinking I'm getting a better product, like when you stated they are better in flash units when they aren't.

        Or do you find it more .. convenient… to shop at a supermarket?

        Charging batteries at home sure is better than constantly buying batteries at the supermarket. Making bread at home sure is more convenient than buying toxic bread at the supermarket. Making food in bulk sure is more convenient than buying overpackaged poop at the supermarket and constantly replenishing supplies. You'll find very little food that can be bought there in bulk. Try to find wholemeal flour in 10KG bags there, for instance, let alone the good type. Try to find dry beans in 1KG bags, for instance. I can go on.

        The cost of batteries are on a much smaller scale, but scale is relative.

        Much smaller scale? What do you mean? You can make big savings with batteries by sensibly buying rechargeables.

        Rechargable batteries have a flatter discharge curve.

        And this flatter discharge curve is better in torches. Far better. Unless you have a regulated torch that does this for you, which most don't have (plus it would be 'too expensive' for a lowly emergency torch, after all…!)

        At the end of the day, the whole point is that life isn't all about money. Many people would gladly pay a bit more for convenience.

        What's funny is many people are buying disposables purely because they think they are saving money. Or saving money with "low-drain-devices, yo!" "Nah, not worth buying rechargeables for mah remote!"

        At least that's what they often publically claim as their reason for buying them.

        Now, convenience. I fail to see this glorious convenience you've assigned to disposable batteries which are in the same size & shape as recharageables. Sorry. First it was flash performance. False. Temperature extremes. They do fine here. Then emergency torch longevity & having to charge them every year. False. Then lightness. Oh, those grams are killing me. Especially at the airport! (but for all we know, NiMH could be lighter than alkalines…not that anyone noticed)

        Then 9V batteries in smoke alarms, which is your strongest argument, even though AA and AAA is really the topic here.

        Is that all you've got?

        Are these clutching-at-straws & extremely unlikely so-called conveniences of usage…are these the strongest arguments in favour of disposable batteries? That and the long-spoken-about "too long to recoup costs in remotes and other low-drain applications!!!!"

        Is that it?

        I still don't know why people buy them.
        They are not saving money. They are not getting this glorious convenience you speak of. At best, they are losing money on the high-drain (and low-drain) devices they buy these batteries for…money that could be spent on going 100% rechargeable for all their AA and AAA needs (and C and D with those C and D-sized spacers).

        I think they don't know the benefits of low-self-discharge rechargeable batteries, nor how cheaply they can obtain them and charge them. Which is just as I expected. So I will continue making thankless posts like this until they do. :)

      • 

        eug on 08/08/2013 - 11:08

        I started replying point-by-point then decided it was completely pointless because you cannot understand that different people have different requirements and usage scenarios.

        Until you realize that the world doesn't have to revolve around your specific needs and requirements only, you will never understand why some people don't consider spending $5-10 now because you might start to save 14 cents a year from the year 2033 onwards worth any effort.

        (2x AA GP alkalines ($1) in my thermometer lasted 7 years. 2 AA NiMH cost $5-10. If $5, it'll take 35 years (lets say 20 to account for inflation) before I start to see any savings - ignoring the cost to run the charger and its energy losses, and assuming the NiMH batteries are still functioning properly after 20 years of use)

        p.s. there are many factual inaccuracies in your post. e.g. flashes and lithium batteries, battery weight (you evidently have never touched a lithium AA - I weighed mine, it's just over half the weight of my eneloop), and various other bits.

  • 

    retiredfeline on 02/08/2013 - 12:13

    It doesn't make sense to tie up a relatively expensive rechargeable in a location where the drain is low, e.g. remote control, electronic scale, LCD clock, where over the lifetime of the device, you would never use up enough disposables to equal the cost of a rechargeable sitting in that position.

    • 

      cheepwun on 02/08/2013 - 13:53

      Well, I have them doing exactly that.
      Scales. Remotes. Guitar tuners. Kitchen timer. Graphing calculator. The cost of eneloops is super-low as it is and it eventually pays off, just over more time in low-drain devices. Any savings you make by going disposable in these devices is short-term, not over the long-term.

      Then there are those that take more current:
      * bike lights
      * wireless flash triggers
      * camera flashes
      * toys

      …that pay off far more quickly and can easily cover the cost of any eneloops you use in low-drain devices. Plus: no leaky alkaline problems (I have yet to have a rechargeable leak on me). No trips to the shop for disposables. Plus higher current capacity than alkalines (better performance) in high-drain devices.

      • 

        retiredfeline on 02/08/2013 - 14:57

        My PVR remote is still on the original pair of cells that came with the PVR several years ago. :P You're obsessed.

      • 

        cheepwun on 02/08/2013 - 16:32

        My PVR remote is still on the original pair of cells that came with the PVR several years ago. :P You're obsessed.

        Harsh bro.
        We all know remotes can last a couple years on the same battery, especially if you don't use it much. Is this news?

        Hence longer time to recoup that outlandish ~$2.50 you paid per rechargeable battery, if you decided to "splash out" on such outlandish batteries. More that subsidised by the higher-current-drain devices you use other rechargeables in, if the wallet is weeping.

        Which I'd argue most of those buying batteries here are using them for. Higher drain devices.

      • 

        retiredfeline on 02/08/2013 - 16:54

        I never argued against using them in high drain devices, mate. But you have to have a sense of proportion, not rechargables everywhere. There are many things that contribute to your environmental footprint; batteries are just one.

        I still have a couple of alkaline cells from the 8 pack I bought a few years ago. I actually don't have many devices that require batteries. Let's see: the remotes, the electronic scale, the Ikea alarm clock, the LED torch, the wireless mouse, the noise cancelling earphones for which I use NiMH AAA, the P&S camera which I will use NiMH when I use up the alkalines in a year or so. No children's toys, no bike, no camera flash. All those cells that come along with new equipment keep me going without buying anything. When they are too weak they go to less demanding devices, usually ending up in the low drain devices in the end.

        So not everybody is in your shoes.

      • 

        cheepwun on 07/08/2013 - 10:02

        So not everybody is in your shoes.

        Never claimed that. Why did you buy a bulk pack of alkalines? I still don't get it. And given the attention disposable deals like this get here, I am sure people still buy these things habitually and constantly, thinking they are saving.

        Does your point-and-shoot camera get so little use that the batteries last a year or so? Does your wireless mouse? The LED torch?

        Makes no sense to me whatsoever to buy disposables and there is an increased risk (in my opinion) of leakage.

      • 

        retiredfeline on 08/08/2013 - 07:51

        From Carrefour between 5 and 10 years ago. That shows how few batteries I actually use.

        Yes, I only take a few pictures a week on the P&S. Comes up to a few hundred by the end of the year. I have a better camera that has a rechargeable LiIon. The mouse is only used a few hours a week at a site where the horrible alternative is a touch pad. It's still going strong on one old cell put in a year ago. The LED torch is used perhaps a few minutes a week to hunt for things under furniture or look more carefully at labels on equipment. The cells came from another freebie I don't use, a hamburger speaker.

        The only cells I've had leak were carbon zinc and I'd never buy those.

        So you see I am aware of my usage. If I went through more cells for a particular use I'd substitute a rechargeable in that spot. I'm just amused that you rabbit on about this. A sign of obsession for sure. :)

      • 

        cheepwun on 08/08/2013 - 08:32

        I'm just amused that you rabbit on about this. A sign of obsession for sure. :)

        Obsession? I prefer to call it passion. I would prefer to see no rabbit :)
        http://www.energizer.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/medallion/b…

        Not only am I surprised that AA and AAA disposables are still selling today, I am very surprised that they are still popular. At best, they should be a fringe item, not-often-stocked I reckon. Especially years after batteries like eneloop have come out.

        I still get aversions when disposables are included with electronics (such as the Nintendo Wii, TVs, amps, & other small disposable crappy China devices).

        Litterally MILLIONS of batteries hitting landfill every year because of this practice. It's so easy to say batteries not included without affecting sales, and allowing at least a small percentage of those millions (or more likely billions of batteries) to be taken care of with a rechargeable that the user buys.

        A recent set of alkaline (AAA) that came with my graphing calculator started leaking. That was my most recent incident. No temperature extremes, no massive current usage (as you can imagine in an LCD calculator).

        A Cateye bike light I bought came with bundled disposables and one of them was leaking (corroded) straight from the packet :/ First time I'd seen that when new. Needless to say, I had to throw them away.

        All that said, I doubt most of them would be in this condition or develop leaks (it has only happened sometimes), but the risk is always there. Sometimes I wonder if it's even worth using supplied disposables that come with many devices.

      • 

        retiredfeline on 08/08/2013 - 09:24

        Ok ok I promise to use rechargeables next opportunity I get. It's good that you care about the earth though.

        Thought about setting up you own website with a FAQ for proselyting instead of typing in all the arguments each time?

      • 

        cheepwun on 08/08/2013 - 10:01

        Thought about setting up you own website with a FAQ for proselyting instead of typing in all the arguments each time?

        Thanks for your suggestion. We will pass it on to upper management.
        :)

        Speaking for myself, I'd rather do it directly in the 'marketplace' as it were. Personal care and attention. And since nobody has really responded with valid arguments for disposables, I will continue to educate (and make arrogant comments).

        It's good that you care about the earth though.

        My motives are primarily selfish (rechargeables save money), not earthly.

        The toxins not reaching landfill and huge resources not being expended for single-use batteries (energy, metals, etc.) just happens to be a bonus. When the two come together like this, great; all the more reason I'm amazed people still buy these.

        So far I have encountered nothing but a shortlist of weak arguments for disposables, so I will continue the mission with the personalised service you have come to expect from cheepwun. I may copy & paste some of my most brilliant work.

        The thankless task must go on.

      • 

        eug on 08/08/2013 - 11:13

        So far I have encountered nothing but a shortlist of weak arguments for disposables,

        I guarantee you, you will never, ever find a convincing argument for disposables - because your mind is already made up.

        Nothing will ever change your mind, no matter how compelling any argument is. If it doesn't suit your own personal needs and requirements, you will dismiss it. You simply refuse to see that there are other people out there in this world who are different to you, with different needs and requirements.

        NiMH batteries are much better than disposables in many, many scenarios - but there are still many scenarios where disposables are well-suited to the task, cheaper, or simply more convenient. There's no point listing them again because you will never see it any other way apart from your own.

      • 

        cheepwun on 08/08/2013 - 15:17

        You simply refuse to see that there are other people out there in this world who are different to you, with different needs and requirements.

        Not at all.

        All I see are academic arguments that nobody thinks about in the real world and a lot of misconceptions about how 'good' disposables are in comparison to rechargeables of today, many of them your misconceptions, which I have helped to disprove.

        There's no point listing them again because you will never see it any other way apart from your own.

        There is no point listing them because they are mostly points on a scoreboard for a forum discussion, rather than a real truly useful benefit, right? C'mon, an eneloop is not suitable for your emergency torch (both economically and technically)? But more on that below.

        The irony in all this is most people buy disposables because they think they are saving money and are insulted when they are told they aren't, and that there are precious little technical or economic benefits to be buying them today. I'm willing to concede when you have a point with 9V batteries. Or when disposables are still used (I still use them). Just not in AA or AAA sizes. The benefits of disposables are virtually non-existent for all practical purposes, in terms of AA and AAA.

        To summarize

        ---

        • You claim: charge batteries every year. Sanyo claim eneloops store 70% of their charge after 5 years. Read here: http://www.eneloop.info/home/whats-eneloop.html
        • You claim: Disposables are ideal in an emergency torch. Let's assume after 3 years and having 50% of their charge in there. Still not good enough for an emergency torch? We are being generous since manufacturer claims are often 'ideal'. Is this not enough for the purposes of the emergency torch? Is it asking a lot to charge every few years? Can you honestly argue the technical or economic benefits of buying a lithium cell or cells in this scenario? This isn't the old Ni-MH you may have had a bad experience with. Am I telling fibs here?
        • You claim: use disposables in your flash for best performance. False. Eneloop get top spots. See link above already linked.
        • You claim: use lithiums in your mobile gps for longer life. I've yet to get data on this, though Garmin recommends both Ni-MH and Lithium batteries and warns against Alkaline. See: http://static.garmincdn.com/pumac/eTrex_10-20-30_OM_EN.pdf Lithiums cost a little less than Ni-MH eneloops (for a mere single-use battery)
        • save mere grams per battery buying expensive lithiums over alkalines, according to Energizer: probably true; I know they weigh less, but I don't have any on hand to weigh. How much of a benefit is this? Can you think of any people seriously hampered by battery weight, outside of very, very, very specialist needs? Be real. Permit me to acknowledge they weigh less than alkalines but also permit me to get back to you on the real savings in weight for the average punter and whether or not that even matters to them outside of internet point-scoring. Yes, this is a benefit, but how many people are buying lithiums because they WEIGH LESS than alkalines? If you are, please do me a favour and weigh an AA or AAA for me, so I can compare how many grams you are saving in 1, 2, 4, 8, 12 and 16 battery configurations when compared to my eneloops.
        • 9V disposables may be better for your smoke alarm. Probably true. Though this discussion is more about AA and AAA, I always thought.

        ---

        I already told you I use some disposables in other sizes, not the least of which is those lithium button cells as back-ups and in computers too. But I don't see the need for disposable AA and AAA based on the reasons you've given, nor do I see the benefit to the average joe buying disposable AA and AAA batteries. Yes, some are tiny benefits (lithium battery weight), only discussed on forum posts by those still buying disposables. Acknowledged.

        Where are the compelling usage scenarios? Not mental point-scoring. Real, practical examples of why they are used. So far I'm willing to concede the 9V battery for the smoke alarm. Lithium coin batteries too. And even that airport weight 'hassle'. Oh dear.

        But AA and AAA? C'mon, get real here. 99.99% of people wouldn't be buying them if they had some clue. What I see is some people clutching at straws, and I strongly suspect that they are thinking they are saving money by buying disposable AA and AAAs - and not completely aware of the benefits of the new low-self-discharge batteries, which this discussion has already proven.

      • 

        eug on 08/08/2013 - 15:43

        As I said before, there's no point discussing this with you. Like any religious-type discussion, both sides can continually poke holes in each other's arguments.

        Your mind is made up and you are unable to see that there are any other possible scenarios where disposables are fine.

        You are seeing everything only from your point of view. You are unable to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

        And finally, as I've mentioned several times before, life isn't all about money. Many people will pay a bit more for convenience. And before you jump at that, 'convenience' is subjective - something someone considers a convenience might not match up with your definition of convenience. But that doesn't mean they're wrong and you're right. Life isn't black and white.

      • 

        cheepwun on 08/08/2013 - 16:38

        -1

        You are seeing everything only from your point of view. You are unable to put yourself in someone else's shoes.

        Can you honestly respond - and with a straight face - tell me that Joe Customer would find the use of AA and AAA disposables compelling for the reasons you mentioned, given full knowledge of the options on offer today? Seriously?

        ---

        This has nothing to do with:
        * religious debate
        * not being able to put myself in someone's shoes.

        ---

        Quite the contrary.
        Do you reckon those are compelling reasons for the bulk of the population? Especially compared to the downsides of disposables and the benefits of rechargeables, which I have already discussed with you, disproving many of your false assumptions? Only a few little points come down to opinion on the 'benefits' (and it's fair to say we both have very different feelings here). For some small sector of the population, I'm sure they care about these points as much as you claim to.

        I just don't think the advantages for AA and AAA disposables are there for the masses, assuming they are well-informed.

        Your mind is made up and you are unable to see that there are any other possible scenarios where disposables are fine.

        I don't see you acknowledging ANY of my points while I acknowledge limited scenarios were non-AA and AAA batteries are still used, and for probably good reasons in some of those devices. Who's mind is 'made up' now?

        And finally, as I've mentioned several times before, life isn't all about money.

        Sigh. Most of the actual interest in disposables is for money; the saving of it and the ignorance of viable alternatives. I'm willing to bet 99% of buyers here use their disposables in higher-drain devices too.

        Again, why?
        For those internet-point-scoring reasons you mentioned?
        Hardly.

        They think they are saving MONEY.

        I already told you convenience is king with disposables. Less trips to the shop, for one. Oh dear, you may have to carry a 150-gram charger with you…along with those rechargeable batteries as you come back into the country. The horror. But please balance that with the ability to charge a battery in your hotel room or wherever instead of going to the shops, or packing several packs with you 'cause you know you can't charge expired batteries overnight. Convenience works both ways.

        Is the 'bring-my-charger-&-batts-in-my-luggage' airport scenario a compelling reason against rechargeables and for disposables. To most people? What do you reckon? How much of a hassle is it. Seriously.

        Is not bringing them in a potential benefit? Sure. But what weighting would I assign to it? (if you'll forgive the pun?). My personal weighting: very low. Same with the weight of lithium AAs. Very low weighting, though yes, potential benefits to some ultra minority who favour convenience of not carrying those precious extra grams is there. Those who insist on continuing to choose disposables and make constant shop trips for them, yes. Whatever floats their boat. I still don't see it being relevant to the unwashed masses, in general. Not an informed one.

        I can put myself in another's shoes just fine. These ARE possible reasons they might want to continue raping their wallets for dispoasables (along with the environment), but are they really compelling reasons to keep doing it for most of us?

        I'd argue not.

        Not in terms of AA and AAA. It's a false economy and false convenience. Or at least a 'convenience' that's balanced with other 'conveniences' on the rechargeable side.

        I can just as easily argue less trips to the shop when charging at home or in the hotel. I find your claimed benefits weak, at least in terms of AA and AAAs, and your insistence that it can be about convenience more than money is one of the weak arguments.

        Sure, potentially someone out there may think the same. Not denying that. Again, not important for most of us, I would imagine. Certainly not a reason to choose disposables for most of us aware of the alternatives, and the convenience (not just price) of alternatives.

        And remember, rechargeables STILL cost more than disposable lithiums, per unit. This is what people buying disposables are MOST attracted to, I'd argue. That initial sticker price. There is resistance when that initial sticker price is higher.

        Your argument about cost is best applied to those continually buying disposables, not those thinking beyond the initial sticker price and thinking about getting back what they paid.

      • 

        tdw on 08/08/2013 - 17:05

        Nothing will ever change your mind, no matter how compelling any argument is. If it doesn't suit your own personal needs and requirements, you will dismiss it.

        i hear ya. pretty much describes why fanboys are so reviled on the internet

      • 

        cheepwun on 08/08/2013 - 17:07

        -2

        i hear ya. pretty much describes why fanboys are so reviled on the internet

        Another disposable AA and AAA buyer hurling insults who can't see beyond initial sticker price, I presume?

      • 

        tdw on 08/08/2013 - 17:16

        yeah, they're also good at making presumptions and assumptions with reckless abandon. to answer your question, i haven't bought disposables for several years but that's just my how i use my batteries. not gonna burn people at the stake just because they have different needs to mine, you know?

        and what, "fanboys" is an insult? grow some thicker skin lol

      • 

        cheepwun on 08/08/2013 - 17:32

        yeah, they're also good at making presumptions and assumptions with reckless abandon.

        I made a presumption indeed. You are here for the deal.
        I still believe it too.

        An insult is what it is. You know it, and I do too.

        I saw a deal for thicker skin but I decided not to buy it. Too expensive, even though they said it can be used over 1,000 times. I don't know how much use I'd get out of it.

        Disposable one might be good for some low-use device. Like my emergency torch. What do you reckon?

      • 

        eug on 08/08/2013 - 17:51

        Heh, I've been on forums long enough to recognize when a discussion is spiralling out to the point where it'll just turn into an endless back-and-forth that's a waste of time.

        I also learned that there is no need to change other people's minds or force my opinions upon them, especially if their mind is made up. There's plenty of space in this world for differing views.

        I use lots of rechargeable batteries and love them, but I am also able to recognize that there are many usage scenarios where disposables are cheaper, more convenient or perfectly suitable.

        Who's mind is 'made up' now?

        Ahh, there's a difference between having a mind that is made up, and a mind that is closed. A closed mind only sees one possibility alone. An open mind sees different possibilities - which I think is important as different people are different.

      • 

        cheepwun on 08/08/2013 - 19:28

        Ahh, there's a difference between having a mind that is made up, and a mind that is closed. A closed mind only sees one possibility alone. An open mind sees different possibilities - which I think is important as different people are different.

        Are we at this again?

        I accept the 'other possibilities'. I thought I explained that just fine. And with too many words.

        I just don't see these 'different scenarios' as very likely, statistically-speaking. I think they are arguments people make to justify their purchase of disposable batteries when insulted (many of which I knocked down with facts), and I personally think they are weak justifications for their continued use.

        There's not much to it, really. We disagree.

        I think rechargeables have replaced virtually all need for AA and AAA disposables at this point. I also understand that people continue to buy them. Why? Ignorance of alternatives and thinking they are getting a deal (and bad memories of their old rechargeable batteries perhaps). That's what I think the BULK of disposable-battery-buying people are thinking. Not all, the bulk of them.

        Feel free to make more disparaging remarks about closed minds.